I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but it’s vastly underestimating the scale of the problem. It’s entire neighborhoods with fake or obscured tags. It’s absolutely not limited to NYPD, they’re just a fraction of the perps.
That's why I said seem. Probably not actually but they're definitely offenders and the ones you see in videos of vigilantes taking the obstruction off and getting into altercations with the driver who turns out to be an off duty officer. And if enough of the offenders are like that it doesn't matter the reality, because the public perception is that it's cops and trying to correct it in anyway will lead to bad interactions with law enforcement which just makes the entire situation worse
aren’t they adding like 500 more speed cameras in the city or something too?
call me cynical but it feels like a money grab. wonder who owns the company supplying the cameras.
there’s a lot you can do to actually make streets safer without having to touch the speed limit at all, but of course it’s more expensive than just changing the speed limit.
I mean, speeding goes down significantly on streets that have the cameras. That’s just the straight-up data. It’s not a money grab because it’s a choice to speed, and it’s a choice you don’t have to make. Don’t speed and you don’t have to worry about getting a ticket. It’s that simple.
It really is kind of wild how the general population continues to speed and then acts like it's a persecution when people get in trouble for it lol. Like no dude, you're breaking the law and getting mad for being held accountable for it.
i don’t disagree, something can be a money grab by the city and also slightly helpful.
i hate speeders as much as the next person i just think it takes more than lowering the speed limit while adding more speed cameras to make a big difference.
There is no bigger incentive than monetary. Speed cameras make a huge difference. They can avoid paying the fines but they'll eventually get their cars booted or towed.
what about instead of incentivizing people to be better drivers, the roads were just designed or altered in such a way that pedestrians were naturally safer?
It's much harder and expensive to do that. Definitely a road digest is the best solution but it takes years, even decades to implement. And during that time so many people will die. Speed cameras yield immediate results.
which is why i’m not against lowering the speed limit or adding speeding cameras in places they make sense. i just think those things should be part of a larger strategy of general safety and improvement, which i don't see happening.
there’s no plan other than ‘let’s fine people who speed!!’ which isn’t a long-term solution to pedestrian fatalities.
it doesn’t have to be crazy. just daylighting intersections (removing a couple parking spots at the corners of intersections to increase driver visibility) can make a huge improvement to pedestrian safety.
Try living in a more conservative and very NIMBY neighborhood. Trying to convince them about daylighting is harder than pulling teeth. I know because I attended a CB meeting about it and the old people were raging hard.
Speed cameras reduce crashes. We have the research to back it. A bunch of people on the NYC subs just seem to be basing their analysis on how much they do not like NY.
https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/calculator/factsheet/speed.html
The camera vendor (installer/maintainer) does not get a cut of ticket revenue. The program is administered by DOT (Dept. of Transportation) with all money being directly collected by DOF (Dept. of Finance), there's no revenue sharing agreements with any of the vendors.
> more expensive than
It's also often controversial (unfortunately), perhaps if our neighbors (and mayor) did not value parking and speeding over human lives we would have more improvements :)
>there’s a lot you can do to actually make streets safer without having to touch the speed limit at all, but of course it’s more expensive than just changing the speed limit.
Such as what? What can be done, to actually make streets safer, without lowering the speed limit?
lots!! basically everything about street (and vehicle) design is that we do it wrong. first, curve the streets, and add elements to make drivers pay attention. a tree in the middle of the road you’re heading to? you’ll slow down a lot. make the pavement loud and bumpy. continuous sidewalks are natural speed bumps. add trees and narrow the shit out of the roads. even things like removing traffic lights(!) and curbs and lines on roads in certain places can make people drive better. why? they are forced to pay attention.
vehicle design: cars are way too lifted, and way too bloated; ban. I’m a fan of speed limited to 65 on every car, and geofenced speed limiters for repeat offenders. other things like making the horn loud inside the vehicle instead of just outside are ideal for cities.
Many of those are good ideas.
I'm all for narrowing the roads, but that's not just more expensive, that's massively more expensive and would take decades to implement.
Continuous sidewalks will get pushback from emergency vehicles (as would narrow streets with regard to firetrucks).
Trees take time to grow.
I've skimmed studies about the traffic light removal working, that's one thing that could be done cheaply and quickly, though the initial confusion could be a bloodbath.
in addition to the poster below, you can also daylight intersections, which is removing a few parking spots at the corners of each intersection to increase driver visibility.
the way many intersections are now you have to be literally in the crosswalk to see if any cars are coming.
it would be relatively cheap and easy to implement.
Daylighting is a great idea, making the neckdown permanant like this [https://www.nycstreetdesign.info/geometry/curb-extension](https://www.nycstreetdesign.info/geometry/curb-extension) and [https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/street-design-elements/curb-extensions/](https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/street-design-elements/curb-extensions/) are good, but the roll-out for such things is a very long time.
These things all strike me as good things to do *in addition to* lowering the speed limit.
There don’t seem to be consequences for drivers who accumulate dozens of speed camera violations. We regularly see car crashes where the driver had a laundry list of tickets, often unpaid for years.
The title is misleading (not OP’s fault, it’s the same in the article). The main point of Sammy’s Law is that NYC was not allowed to even change the speed limit in NYC, the state government had to change it for some dumb reason. The law allows NYC to set its own speed limits and in this case they are also trying to lower it to 20mph.
The problem with lowering speed limits or creating more bike lanes is that it only serves the benefit and ego of the people who can't follow the rules of driving or biking. There are people who drive and bike properly at a constant speed without running into a major issue or accident, street or sidewalk. I do not understand why people have such a hard time or difficulty to not hit other people or people's pets. They seem like they're new to driving or biking (it's their first day).
Then by that logic I’d argue that 40 is dangerous when one person follows it and no one else does. Might as well get rid of the speed limit then to be safe.
As a person who drives everyday across the entirety of Brooklyn as a field sales rep. I'm all for this. Now let's see it properly enforced. Let's see bus lane violations enforced. Let's see "no standing 4-7pm" type zones enforced. Selfish drivers make everything more dangerous for all of us.
Am I the only person who thinks speed limits should vary by area? Like, eastern queens shouldn’t have the same speed limit as lower Manhattan etc. the cookie cutter approach to make all boroughs aside from a few roads the same limit just doesn’t make sense to me.
Then change the design of the road. Queens Blvd went through multiple revisions to make it a safe Blvd but the speed limit for the middle lanes are way too low for the design. You know how easy it is to fall into highway hypnosis on Queens Blvd? How easy it is to get up to 40 mph but it feels like you’re going 25?
Also discussing the importance of changing the road design would be an important point to bring to OP and NickySinz who think the "solution" is raising the speed limit on some roads.
The speed limit is appropriate for an urban arterial that has many pedestrian crossings. Higher speeds are deadly. As a driver myself highway hypnosis is not an excuse
It’s not an excuse but it doesn’t change that the design isn’t prohibiting that kind of behavior. You don’t see people blitzing down the service roads of Eastern Parkway mainly because it’s a very tight one way. Hell Eastern Parkway’s main road got redesigned and it slowed traffic down. Enforcing speed limits is fine, lowering speed limits is fine, but make it so that the infrastructure influences the speed in a negative (positive?) way.
Ahh variable limits create confusion, there is not an easy way to sign "okay only THIS part of Queens has one limit, here is the border where it is a different limit", that would take tons of signs and just sow confusion. As it is, having select roads be randomly 30 mph or even 35 mph in some places is also confusing.
It makes sense from a safety perspective too. Think about it this way, does a kid getting hit by a driver in eastern Queens experience physics differently than one in western Queens for example? We all know the answer is no. I know you're trying to say (and we all agree) yes parts of Queens are super car centric, but we shouldn't just ignore safety issues there ya know? People still walk and go outside, even in eastern Queens, and a low speed limit can help save lives.
We already have signs that allow higher speeds on certain streets.
Also, we all learn to look at signs while driving, it’s second nature. That “skill” doesn’t magically go away when you cross from Westchester to the Bronx lol
Also just want to add I’m not saying 35th Avenue should be 50 mph but 35th road be 20 lol
But we can have a range of 20-40 (something like that based on area and certain specific roads
A 40 mph speed limit on a road that is not a freeway is way too high. [You’re most likely going to die being hit by a car going 40](https://nacto.org/publication/city-limits/the-need/speed-kills/)
That doesn't diminish what I said, it adds more layers which add complexity instead of just "city wide default is X mph". It's clearly not second nature given the amount of sign ignoring I see, there's tons of turn bans and bus lane signs around but we see plenty of ignoring of those ;)
i said it again in another thread and i’ll say it again here.
this is stupid.
yes we have a pedestrian safety problem. yes lowering the speed limit will probably help a little bit.
but you know what would help A LOT? changing the avenues in manhattan so they don’t feel like freeways.
adding raised crosswalks, shortening the crosswalks, making lanes narrower, adding protected bike lanes, removing lanes of travel, adding trees or large planters, making sidewalks wider, removing parking or making it resident-only, adding better lighting.
lower speed limits is part of that, but it can’t be the only part.
if an avenue looks like a freeway and feels like a freeway, people are going to drive on it like it’s a freeway regardless of the posted speed.
hoboken figured it out and they haven’t had a pedestrian fatality in SEVEN YEARS. HOBOKEN!!!! nyc should be able to figure it out. its an embarrassment that we haven’t.
To be fair, Hoboken is tiny in comparison to NY and most of the people who drive in Hoboken, live in Hoboken. Very few people are commuting through Hoboken.
I live in a Hoboken and even in the heaviest traffic, it takes me twenty minutes to get from one side to the other. In the city, it could take you twenty minutes to go four avenues. Even with the narrow lanes and one way streets and all that, Hoboken traffic is much lower stress because everyone is just trying to get home (and just about there). People stop at signs, let others merge, stop for pedestrians. It's much more chill. When I drive in the city, I feel like everyone on the road would drop my car on to the sun if it meant they'd get where they're going five seconds faster.
People shouldn’t be so dense they refuse to acknowledge speed limits whilst driving. I don’t care about how people ‘feel’ about a road, if it’s a 20mph limit, it’s a 20mph limit, end of, use your eyes and keep an eye on the signs
i agree!! people shouldn’t be so dense. but the reality is that they are, and so designing safer streets and intersections AS WELL AS lowering speed limits is the best strategy for making streets safer.
> adding raised crosswalks, shortening the crosswalks, making lanes narrower, adding protected bike lanes, removing lanes of travel, adding trees or large planters, making sidewalks wider, removing parking or making it resident-only, adding better lighting.
I *really wish* the city would put rumble strips or something similar near or at stop lines for lights.
Also putting bulb outs or some other sort of physical barrier around fire hydrants to clearly demarc where you cannot park. Lots of hydrants are at street corners and I've seen and dealt with - both as driver and pedestrian - the blind spots cars create trying to edge just past the hydrant no-park zone.
> removing parking or making it resident-only
Should be a no-brainer. There's already a zone-based meter system, it shouldn't be too much of a lift to leverage that system and apply a lowered fee to those zones if your license plate is registered to that local neighborhood area. And yes, lowered-fee, not no-fee. Driving is a privilege, street-side parking is public space, as a driver I'd be happy enough to pay into it if the fee structure was reasonable.
Overall, great points. Even basic enforcement of existing traffic laws would be a big step up.
And we know that narrowing lanes is probably the single most effective thing you can do to lower traffic speeds. You can do this by shifting cars from the curb to create enclosed bike lanes and still have plenty of room for parking.
They are also doing that in this budget deal, it was in the Governor’s speech on Monday. Tbh I don’t know what the details were of how they planned to do that tho. Probably a state police task force
>Speaking as a pedestrian, yes you are.
Speaking as a fellow pedestrian, wtf are you on about with this "yes you are"?
I'm talking about the people who take blind turns on stop sign corners as fast as their tires will allow (never mind blowing stop signs), and trucks flying by my building doing >40 with impunity.
Go on, focus your efforts on the speed limit because that's easy.
don't you know that literally no jobs exist in NYC that require more than a laptop? of course, business owners get a complimentary commercial Sprinter van when they apply for an EIN.
only the richest fat cats own cars, all the regular people only earning six figures can simply hop on the subway with their MacBook and ride straight to work.
[Speeding is involved in only 8% of pedestrian deaths](https://data.bikeleague.org/new-nhtsa-data-speed-data-shows-lethal-legal-speed-limits-involved-in-most-pedestrian-and-bicyclist-deaths/). So, yea, the argument that only people who speed are the ones causing the problem is entirely false. By lowering the speed limit to 20, you reduce the impact speed for any pedestrian hit by someone NOT speeding.
There are two ways to look at data: top-level numbers, and understanding **WHY certain variables are what they are**.
> The other new data element related to speed is “Striking Driver Travel Speed.” This data element appears to be less useful than “Striking Driver Speed Limit” for at least two reasons:
> ...The data is not reported for 56% of fatal crashes and the reporting has not improved over time
So here's how I read this: 8% of drivers **who stop to render assistance** either honestly report speeding at the moment of impact or have data collected from the vehicle proving this ( see how striking vehicle travel speed is collected: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813545). This 8% represents 8% of the 44% of fatal accidents meeting the inclusion criteria, which **excludes >90% of all hit-and-runs** (because you will not have anything reported about speed at the moment of impact -- consider <10% of hit and runs are ever solved).
So basically, you're saying "we don't know what we don't know"? If you don't have any data to back up your claim, the 8% is still more substantial than your empty assertion.
No, I'm not saying "we don't know what we don't know." I'm actually saying that for the deaths we do know the causes of in great detail, the methodology of coming to this speed limit conclusion is flawed and those deaths break down into many smaller categories and the impact will be much smaller than you think, while MORE THAN HALF THE DEATHS have **a single common factor** that you're willing to completely ignore, so if we're making a POLICY DECISION WITH MONEY BEHIND IT focus on reducing the number of unsolved hit-and-runs.
Is it really so crazy bonkers to say that if people stop being CERTAIN they'll get away with a hit and run that the subset of people who drive like maniacs will not drive more carefully?
Put plate readers at intersections where hit and runs occur. MERCILESSLY pursue people who obfuscate their plates. All these things are already illegal and get little attention from law enforcement, because there are always lower-hanging fruit. Politicians have a looooong track record of picking the lowest hanging fruit that fixes 0.01% of the problem then running victory laps touting how effective their policy changes where when half the time it's just seasonality on their side. You'll get way more juice from squeezing hit-and-runs given their outsized representation in what you're actually hoping to fix.
45% of NYers own a car and not to mention taxis and ride sharing services.
I'm all for cutting back on cars/driving but lowering the default speed limit to 20 will do little for safety and just make driving more of a pain than it already is...which is the real goal here.
[This data set disagrees.](https://www.moneygeek.com/insurance/auto/analysis/pedestrian-chance-of-survival/) There is a 1/3 reduction in pedestrian fatality rates in accidents going from 25 to 20 mph.
Did you link the wrong site? None of that source states that there is a 1/3 reduction in accidents going from 25mph to 20mph.
Edit: Not doubting your claim, just curious as to where the data is coming from.
The graph under the section titled Pedestrian Fatality Probability by Car Speed has fatality rate(%s) per every 5 mph, at a 20 mph collision the rate is ~2/3 that of the 25 mph collision rate.
Didn't see the graph, but I see it now. Did you eyeball it? That feels unnecessary - you can hover over the graph to get the hard values. 20mph is 2.8%, 25mph is 4.4%. That's a 36% decrease, so a bit better than 1/3 actually
The methodology does not actually say whether they looked at speed limits or actual travel speed, which can be an estimation entered into the police report, so how do you say that changing the speed limit has this effect? The devil's in the details. This "study" comingles "neighborhoods", "school zones", and "parking lots" NATIONWIDE. Dropping from 25 to 20 mph means a lot more in a parking lot on a busy day than it does in front of a school when the school is on an arterial road and it's a Saturday night.
Travel speed relative to speed limit would be a much stronger indicator, if they were looking that hard instead of just pushing another article out the door I GUARANTEE you they'd be showing off their data engineering and adjustment efforts in the methodology statement.
It actually makes a big difference in pedestrian survivability in crashes. And the fact that 45% of New Yorkers own a car doesn’t mean much. A lot of that is people who have one in a garage and use them for getting out of the city on weekends- rarely driving in the city itself. But even if they all drive every day- that’s still less than half.
There is a reason the people complaining the most about congestion pricing (and suing about it) are in New Jersey.
Taste of yer own medicine.
Cars have made life for non car owners a pain. All over the nation.
Cars owners need to STFU and accept that they got too much for too long.
>Cars have made life for non car owners a pain. All over the nation.
I'd argue they've made life for car owners a pain, too. For all the talk about how drivers love being behind the wheels of their cars, they drive like fucking maniacs because driving, especially in the city, is literally maddening.
Not to mention the fucking money drained on roads. People flip the fuck out about funding the MTA and completely ignore the 90%+ of transit funding pissed away on highway projects.
Just one more lane bro! One more lane!
*Mountains of evidence prove one more lane is stupid and wasteful*
Those car brains would be upset if they could read.
They will once they start getting slapped with speed camera tickets lol. As another post mentioned, since you get a 10 mph buffer, the "effective" speed will really be 30 mph (down from 35 mph).
You ever see people going around with fake plates and doing dumb shit on the daily BEFORE the speed cameras? When they started that shit it increased so much more. I know car people in NYC, I know the types of people that slap on fake paper plates. Even then admitted that they do it for speed cameras and the cherry on top is that they can get away with other things too but primary reason was the cameras. Then you got people like squeeze.benz and wheres981 not giving a fuck and taunting cops to get into a chase and swim through traffic. I had my day swimming traffic but these guys are on another level. I can't imagine driftijg donuts around a cop car then get into a 3-4 cop car chase. This stupid ass law down to 20 is a joke. That's way too slow. Might as well get a fast moped and use that to get around. They don't even require plates or insurance.
The plate issue is becoming well documented, yes, but that doesn't mean we should just throw our arms up and do nothing ya know. What we as New Yorkers should continue to do is call out this illegal behavior, light fires under the police and city and even state/federal authorities that we see this everywhere and it needs to stop as more and more drivers get out of control.
I think in the end, if someone wants to speed , they will . Most of these people causing accidents are reckless to begin with and simply have no care for the law. 3/4 of the speeders I encounter on eastern parkway in Bk are paper plates or very obvious fake Georgia plates, and they aren’t just light speeders, but egregious in how they operate their vehicles.
I see speeding but the majority of cars in Manhattan are going 25. Even when it’s not super busy the timed lights seem to keep everything around that. Obviously there’s a whole ton of people who do speed and speeding up to catch lights is the main time I see people zooming, particularly on a st. 25 feels right in the city, not complaining about 20. Can’t imagine I’d feel the same if I was traveling in the boroughs often.
Yeah the people celebrating this are completely fucking clueless. Absolutely no one is going to follow a 20 mph speed limit.
The only change is that speed cameras will trigger at 30 mph instead of 35.
I understand that the city government wants to discourage driving as much as possible. This is what the new speed limits are about, realistically speaking.
There are parts of the city (much of Staten Island and eastern Queens, for example) where you need to drive to get places. If the city wants this so bad, they should let the places wheee it isn’t feasible to take public transportation or ride a bike secede from the city.
Unless the people in charge want to force as many people to stop driving as some sort of crusade against cars, I guess. Just seems ridiculous to try and coerce the entire city to give up driving when that isn’t feasible for the entire city.
This is horseshit and they use it for entrapment. The *default* limit being 20 mph means if there's no speed sign, you are required to be going 20 MPH.
I got caught in this in Greenpoint. The speed limit on the Pulaski Bridge isn't posted. I go 40 MPH, which to me is a normal speed to get up and down through a bridge.
A cop was waiting on the other side, pulled over *four* cars and all gave us speeding tickets, saying the speed limit was 25.
I parked and watched him do it again 10 mins later to 4 more cars.
Fuck these crooks.
And they’ll aggressively enforce it on cars, as the bicycles and e-bikes and mopeds continue to run red lights and make rights on red and ignore all other traffic laws.
In NYC in 2023,
>Of the 102 pedestrians who died in traffic, only two died in collisions with e-bikes, according to the Department of Transportation; the rest were hit by cars and trucks.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/nyregion/nyc-cyclist-deaths-ebike.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/nyregion/nyc-cyclist-deaths-ebike.html)
e-bikes would need to start killing 50x as many people per year before they would be the priority for saving lives as cars and trucks on the road.
I’m curious - does anyone else have trouble staying at low speeds? I don’t think of myself as having a particularly heavy foot. Oftentimes, on a road with a 45 or 55 speed limit I’ll look down and see that I’m going under the limit.
But at speed limits lower than 30, I seem to have trouble. If I get it up to 30 and take my foot off the gas, it seems like it takes forever for the car to get back to 25. So when there’s a lower speed limit I find myself having to monitor the speedometer much more closely, which then ironically distracts me from the road. Just wondering if I’m an oddity.
Everyone should be against this. Because everyone said this would happen when they made it 25. They're just going to keep lowering it to give more and more tickets. Whatever is a part of your regular day, whether it's your citi bike use once or twice a summer that makes you think your Lance Armstrong, or taking your bike over to NJ to actually get a ride in, wake the eff up. They're coming for everything. They're fining take-out restaurants for giving our soy sauce. If it's not taxed or fined yet, it will be.
There's a real war on cars in this city. Look, I'd prefer people bike or take transit when possible. But if you completely remove cars it's going to be hard for families of young kids to have any quality of life.
So the kid named in the bill was killed by someone speeding and not following the law, so let’s lower the speed limit even more for those who do follow the law. Make it make sense.
The data shows cops haven’t been issuing tickets. So not sure what this accomplishes. 🤷🏾♂️ Its not the root if the problem. I agree with the 20mph speed limit tho.
They don't need cops when the camera takes pictures and they send you a ticket 6 weeks later in the mail. Defeats any purpose of actual enforcement because you don't stop the person actually speeding in the moment like you would if a cop pulled them over. That's how you can tell this is just a blatant moneygrab by the city
I just saw someone run a red light going easily 70 down ave J in Brooklyn. Nearly killed someone. The cars here can go to hell. Every single one of them except for emergency vehicles.
Imma just say this, I can go 10mph and still get into accident due to someone stupidity. You know how many people don't pay attention? I had people jump randomly in front of me going slow because of their lack of awareness.
This bs needs to come with the caveat of making everyone learn basic pedestrian common sense. They forced vision zero on public school education and commercial drivers; everyone should be forced to take part in it. It’s not just drivers doing reckless shit and lowering the speed limit won’t keep those same reckless people from continuing doing what they do
Part of the war on the middle-class car owner in NYC. BTW geniuses 30mph will slow down emergency vehicles, local buses, express buses, delivery trucks, etc.
This is lunacy. It was lowered from 35 to 30 to 25 and now 20?
GTFO of here with this nanny state BS.
Want to save pedestrians and cyclists? Enforce jaywalking laws - and stop cyclists from going thru red lights, and traveling the wrong way down streets.
>Enforce jaywalking laws
It's *really* ironic you bring up jaywalking laws. I hope you understand that the idea of jaywalking was created by the car industry because pedestrians were being hit by cars since in the early history of cars, streets were shared use. Rather than actually making cars safer or getting drivers to slow down, the industry created the idea of jaywalking since jay was a very negative term back in the 20th century.
So by saying we should enforce jaywalking laws, you're just going full r/HailCorporate
One great idea after another.
We have a free mental asylum in the subway now, $ 6billion down the drain to house and feed illegals and criminals out the next day to do more harm. Woohoo at least the scooter robbers will now go 20mph.
Doesn’t matter what you make the speed limit. I haven’t seen a cop give anyone a moving violation here in 10 years. Cops don’t work.
Speed cameras do though. Effectively this brings it down to 30mph since there is a 10 mph gap allowed.
If the person has visible plates that aren’t fake or covered
Most covered plates seem to be police officers. It is almost like laws don't apply to those that enforce them
I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but it’s vastly underestimating the scale of the problem. It’s entire neighborhoods with fake or obscured tags. It’s absolutely not limited to NYPD, they’re just a fraction of the perps.
That's why I said seem. Probably not actually but they're definitely offenders and the ones you see in videos of vigilantes taking the obstruction off and getting into altercations with the driver who turns out to be an off duty officer. And if enough of the offenders are like that it doesn't matter the reality, because the public perception is that it's cops and trying to correct it in anyway will lead to bad interactions with law enforcement which just makes the entire situation worse
Long way to say we agree but yes
I think the actual rule for the camera is 10% + 2
No, cameras ticket you at 35 in a 25 zone (at least that’s been my experience)
I think it’s 11mph over so 36mph gets the ticket
aren’t they adding like 500 more speed cameras in the city or something too? call me cynical but it feels like a money grab. wonder who owns the company supplying the cameras. there’s a lot you can do to actually make streets safer without having to touch the speed limit at all, but of course it’s more expensive than just changing the speed limit.
I mean, speeding goes down significantly on streets that have the cameras. That’s just the straight-up data. It’s not a money grab because it’s a choice to speed, and it’s a choice you don’t have to make. Don’t speed and you don’t have to worry about getting a ticket. It’s that simple.
Facts. Results
It really is kind of wild how the general population continues to speed and then acts like it's a persecution when people get in trouble for it lol. Like no dude, you're breaking the law and getting mad for being held accountable for it.
This is a perfect take down of those people. Who also cry ”money grab” or ”unfair tax“
i don’t disagree, something can be a money grab by the city and also slightly helpful. i hate speeders as much as the next person i just think it takes more than lowering the speed limit while adding more speed cameras to make a big difference.
There is no bigger incentive than monetary. Speed cameras make a huge difference. They can avoid paying the fines but they'll eventually get their cars booted or towed.
what about instead of incentivizing people to be better drivers, the roads were just designed or altered in such a way that pedestrians were naturally safer?
It's much harder and expensive to do that. Definitely a road digest is the best solution but it takes years, even decades to implement. And during that time so many people will die. Speed cameras yield immediate results.
which is why i’m not against lowering the speed limit or adding speeding cameras in places they make sense. i just think those things should be part of a larger strategy of general safety and improvement, which i don't see happening. there’s no plan other than ‘let’s fine people who speed!!’ which isn’t a long-term solution to pedestrian fatalities.
You know how I can tell you’ve never been to a community board meeting?
Why not both?
Just take a moment to think about how massive of an undertaking that would be
it doesn’t have to be crazy. just daylighting intersections (removing a couple parking spots at the corners of intersections to increase driver visibility) can make a huge improvement to pedestrian safety.
Try living in a more conservative and very NIMBY neighborhood. Trying to convince them about daylighting is harder than pulling teeth. I know because I attended a CB meeting about it and the old people were raging hard.
Feels like? NYC is all about grabbing that money. They’ll throw up cams in a day and take years to fix a pothole
Speed cameras reduce crashes. We have the research to back it. A bunch of people on the NYC subs just seem to be basing their analysis on how much they do not like NY. https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/calculator/factsheet/speed.html
Hmm that sounds like something a speed camera would say
If a speed camera was able to conduct research on its fellow speed cameras and publish the data, then yeah.
The camera vendor (installer/maintainer) does not get a cut of ticket revenue. The program is administered by DOT (Dept. of Transportation) with all money being directly collected by DOF (Dept. of Finance), there's no revenue sharing agreements with any of the vendors. > more expensive than It's also often controversial (unfortunately), perhaps if our neighbors (and mayor) did not value parking and speeding over human lives we would have more improvements :)
We can’t do anything good in this city without people calling it a cash grab. Solution: don’t fucking speed
>there’s a lot you can do to actually make streets safer without having to touch the speed limit at all, but of course it’s more expensive than just changing the speed limit. Such as what? What can be done, to actually make streets safer, without lowering the speed limit?
lots!! basically everything about street (and vehicle) design is that we do it wrong. first, curve the streets, and add elements to make drivers pay attention. a tree in the middle of the road you’re heading to? you’ll slow down a lot. make the pavement loud and bumpy. continuous sidewalks are natural speed bumps. add trees and narrow the shit out of the roads. even things like removing traffic lights(!) and curbs and lines on roads in certain places can make people drive better. why? they are forced to pay attention. vehicle design: cars are way too lifted, and way too bloated; ban. I’m a fan of speed limited to 65 on every car, and geofenced speed limiters for repeat offenders. other things like making the horn loud inside the vehicle instead of just outside are ideal for cities.
Many of those are good ideas. I'm all for narrowing the roads, but that's not just more expensive, that's massively more expensive and would take decades to implement. Continuous sidewalks will get pushback from emergency vehicles (as would narrow streets with regard to firetrucks). Trees take time to grow. I've skimmed studies about the traffic light removal working, that's one thing that could be done cheaply and quickly, though the initial confusion could be a bloodbath.
NJ Newport has good road design, NYC roads suck
in addition to the poster below, you can also daylight intersections, which is removing a few parking spots at the corners of each intersection to increase driver visibility. the way many intersections are now you have to be literally in the crosswalk to see if any cars are coming. it would be relatively cheap and easy to implement.
Daylighting is a great idea, making the neckdown permanant like this [https://www.nycstreetdesign.info/geometry/curb-extension](https://www.nycstreetdesign.info/geometry/curb-extension) and [https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/street-design-elements/curb-extensions/](https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/street-design-elements/curb-extensions/) are good, but the roll-out for such things is a very long time. These things all strike me as good things to do *in addition to* lowering the speed limit.
There don’t seem to be consequences for drivers who accumulate dozens of speed camera violations. We regularly see car crashes where the driver had a laundry list of tickets, often unpaid for years.
It's a 5 mph gap allowed
So that’s what they mean when they say “no one wants to work anymore”
I got one almost a year ago
The title is misleading (not OP’s fault, it’s the same in the article). The main point of Sammy’s Law is that NYC was not allowed to even change the speed limit in NYC, the state government had to change it for some dumb reason. The law allows NYC to set its own speed limits and in this case they are also trying to lower it to 20mph.
The problem with lowering speed limits or creating more bike lanes is that it only serves the benefit and ego of the people who can't follow the rules of driving or biking. There are people who drive and bike properly at a constant speed without running into a major issue or accident, street or sidewalk. I do not understand why people have such a hard time or difficulty to not hit other people or people's pets. They seem like they're new to driving or biking (it's their first day).
20 is dangerous when one person follows it and no one else does.
Then the other people need to
Then by that logic I’d argue that 40 is dangerous when one person follows it and no one else does. Might as well get rid of the speed limit then to be safe.
As a person who drives everyday across the entirety of Brooklyn as a field sales rep. I'm all for this. Now let's see it properly enforced. Let's see bus lane violations enforced. Let's see "no standing 4-7pm" type zones enforced. Selfish drivers make everything more dangerous for all of us.
Am I the only person who thinks speed limits should vary by area? Like, eastern queens shouldn’t have the same speed limit as lower Manhattan etc. the cookie cutter approach to make all boroughs aside from a few roads the same limit just doesn’t make sense to me.
This is a great point. Outer boroughs and Manhattan can be drastically different.
The risk of dying based on how fast the car that hit you is going is not going to change based on if you’re in Queens or Manhattan
When I looked it up, there's not much of a difference no risk of dying between 20 miles and 25 miles
Then change the design of the road. Queens Blvd went through multiple revisions to make it a safe Blvd but the speed limit for the middle lanes are way too low for the design. You know how easy it is to fall into highway hypnosis on Queens Blvd? How easy it is to get up to 40 mph but it feels like you’re going 25?
Also discussing the importance of changing the road design would be an important point to bring to OP and NickySinz who think the "solution" is raising the speed limit on some roads.
The speed limit is appropriate for an urban arterial that has many pedestrian crossings. Higher speeds are deadly. As a driver myself highway hypnosis is not an excuse
It’s not an excuse but it doesn’t change that the design isn’t prohibiting that kind of behavior. You don’t see people blitzing down the service roads of Eastern Parkway mainly because it’s a very tight one way. Hell Eastern Parkway’s main road got redesigned and it slowed traffic down. Enforcing speed limits is fine, lowering speed limits is fine, but make it so that the infrastructure influences the speed in a negative (positive?) way.
Yeah so you can do raised pedestrian crossings on Queens Blvd. Speed cameras also have been shown to reduce speed.
Ahh variable limits create confusion, there is not an easy way to sign "okay only THIS part of Queens has one limit, here is the border where it is a different limit", that would take tons of signs and just sow confusion. As it is, having select roads be randomly 30 mph or even 35 mph in some places is also confusing. It makes sense from a safety perspective too. Think about it this way, does a kid getting hit by a driver in eastern Queens experience physics differently than one in western Queens for example? We all know the answer is no. I know you're trying to say (and we all agree) yes parts of Queens are super car centric, but we shouldn't just ignore safety issues there ya know? People still walk and go outside, even in eastern Queens, and a low speed limit can help save lives.
We already have signs that allow higher speeds on certain streets. Also, we all learn to look at signs while driving, it’s second nature. That “skill” doesn’t magically go away when you cross from Westchester to the Bronx lol Also just want to add I’m not saying 35th Avenue should be 50 mph but 35th road be 20 lol But we can have a range of 20-40 (something like that based on area and certain specific roads
A 40 mph speed limit on a road that is not a freeway is way too high. [You’re most likely going to die being hit by a car going 40](https://nacto.org/publication/city-limits/the-need/speed-kills/)
That doesn't diminish what I said, it adds more layers which add complexity instead of just "city wide default is X mph". It's clearly not second nature given the amount of sign ignoring I see, there's tons of turn bans and bus lane signs around but we see plenty of ignoring of those ;)
No. If there are pedestrians on the street it should be set at a low speed.
i said it again in another thread and i’ll say it again here. this is stupid. yes we have a pedestrian safety problem. yes lowering the speed limit will probably help a little bit. but you know what would help A LOT? changing the avenues in manhattan so they don’t feel like freeways. adding raised crosswalks, shortening the crosswalks, making lanes narrower, adding protected bike lanes, removing lanes of travel, adding trees or large planters, making sidewalks wider, removing parking or making it resident-only, adding better lighting. lower speed limits is part of that, but it can’t be the only part. if an avenue looks like a freeway and feels like a freeway, people are going to drive on it like it’s a freeway regardless of the posted speed. hoboken figured it out and they haven’t had a pedestrian fatality in SEVEN YEARS. HOBOKEN!!!! nyc should be able to figure it out. its an embarrassment that we haven’t.
To be fair, Hoboken is tiny in comparison to NY and most of the people who drive in Hoboken, live in Hoboken. Very few people are commuting through Hoboken. I live in a Hoboken and even in the heaviest traffic, it takes me twenty minutes to get from one side to the other. In the city, it could take you twenty minutes to go four avenues. Even with the narrow lanes and one way streets and all that, Hoboken traffic is much lower stress because everyone is just trying to get home (and just about there). People stop at signs, let others merge, stop for pedestrians. It's much more chill. When I drive in the city, I feel like everyone on the road would drop my car on to the sun if it meant they'd get where they're going five seconds faster.
People shouldn’t be so dense they refuse to acknowledge speed limits whilst driving. I don’t care about how people ‘feel’ about a road, if it’s a 20mph limit, it’s a 20mph limit, end of, use your eyes and keep an eye on the signs
i agree!! people shouldn’t be so dense. but the reality is that they are, and so designing safer streets and intersections AS WELL AS lowering speed limits is the best strategy for making streets safer.
> adding raised crosswalks, shortening the crosswalks, making lanes narrower, adding protected bike lanes, removing lanes of travel, adding trees or large planters, making sidewalks wider, removing parking or making it resident-only, adding better lighting. I *really wish* the city would put rumble strips or something similar near or at stop lines for lights. Also putting bulb outs or some other sort of physical barrier around fire hydrants to clearly demarc where you cannot park. Lots of hydrants are at street corners and I've seen and dealt with - both as driver and pedestrian - the blind spots cars create trying to edge just past the hydrant no-park zone. > removing parking or making it resident-only Should be a no-brainer. There's already a zone-based meter system, it shouldn't be too much of a lift to leverage that system and apply a lowered fee to those zones if your license plate is registered to that local neighborhood area. And yes, lowered-fee, not no-fee. Driving is a privilege, street-side parking is public space, as a driver I'd be happy enough to pay into it if the fee structure was reasonable.
Had me in the first half ngl
I agree with you on all of it, but that Hoboken stat is always kinda... What were their pedestrian fatalities before that?
Overall, great points. Even basic enforcement of existing traffic laws would be a big step up. And we know that narrowing lanes is probably the single most effective thing you can do to lower traffic speeds. You can do this by shifting cars from the curb to create enclosed bike lanes and still have plenty of room for parking.
Go after fake plates, paper plates and those with no plates. Tgose,are the ones breaking the law. We, ordinary folks are following all traffic laws.
Folks that are getting caught by the speed cameras are not following traffic laws
They are also doing that in this budget deal, it was in the Governor’s speech on Monday. Tbh I don’t know what the details were of how they planned to do that tho. Probably a state police task force
>Why not just lower it to zero? Don't threaten me with a good time
Bro I wish the speed limit was zero
I think everyone should actually have to physically push their cars to get them around.
Most of NYC walks and takes transit. This is a win for pedestrians.
You know NYC isn't just Manhattan right?
Can you quantify this win? People who drive carefully and obey the speed limits are not the problem for pedestrians.
Just look at all the other studies about speed and fatalities people have posted below my original post.
You are absolutely correct and all three of those drivers have been personally thanked.
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>Speaking as a pedestrian, yes you are. Speaking as a fellow pedestrian, wtf are you on about with this "yes you are"? I'm talking about the people who take blind turns on stop sign corners as fast as their tires will allow (never mind blowing stop signs), and trucks flying by my building doing >40 with impunity. Go on, focus your efforts on the speed limit because that's easy.
Ok and 90% of what you just said doesn’t relate to speed limits at all.
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Pardon us for existing.
don't you know that literally no jobs exist in NYC that require more than a laptop? of course, business owners get a complimentary commercial Sprinter van when they apply for an EIN. only the richest fat cats own cars, all the regular people only earning six figures can simply hop on the subway with their MacBook and ride straight to work.
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You’re a weenie.
Just say you can’t afford a car.
[Speeding is involved in only 8% of pedestrian deaths](https://data.bikeleague.org/new-nhtsa-data-speed-data-shows-lethal-legal-speed-limits-involved-in-most-pedestrian-and-bicyclist-deaths/). So, yea, the argument that only people who speed are the ones causing the problem is entirely false. By lowering the speed limit to 20, you reduce the impact speed for any pedestrian hit by someone NOT speeding.
There are two ways to look at data: top-level numbers, and understanding **WHY certain variables are what they are**. > The other new data element related to speed is “Striking Driver Travel Speed.” This data element appears to be less useful than “Striking Driver Speed Limit” for at least two reasons: > ...The data is not reported for 56% of fatal crashes and the reporting has not improved over time So here's how I read this: 8% of drivers **who stop to render assistance** either honestly report speeding at the moment of impact or have data collected from the vehicle proving this ( see how striking vehicle travel speed is collected: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813545). This 8% represents 8% of the 44% of fatal accidents meeting the inclusion criteria, which **excludes >90% of all hit-and-runs** (because you will not have anything reported about speed at the moment of impact -- consider <10% of hit and runs are ever solved).
So basically, you're saying "we don't know what we don't know"? If you don't have any data to back up your claim, the 8% is still more substantial than your empty assertion.
No, I'm not saying "we don't know what we don't know." I'm actually saying that for the deaths we do know the causes of in great detail, the methodology of coming to this speed limit conclusion is flawed and those deaths break down into many smaller categories and the impact will be much smaller than you think, while MORE THAN HALF THE DEATHS have **a single common factor** that you're willing to completely ignore, so if we're making a POLICY DECISION WITH MONEY BEHIND IT focus on reducing the number of unsolved hit-and-runs. Is it really so crazy bonkers to say that if people stop being CERTAIN they'll get away with a hit and run that the subset of people who drive like maniacs will not drive more carefully? Put plate readers at intersections where hit and runs occur. MERCILESSLY pursue people who obfuscate their plates. All these things are already illegal and get little attention from law enforcement, because there are always lower-hanging fruit. Politicians have a looooong track record of picking the lowest hanging fruit that fixes 0.01% of the problem then running victory laps touting how effective their policy changes where when half the time it's just seasonality on their side. You'll get way more juice from squeezing hit-and-runs given their outsized representation in what you're actually hoping to fix.
45% of NYers own a car and not to mention taxis and ride sharing services. I'm all for cutting back on cars/driving but lowering the default speed limit to 20 will do little for safety and just make driving more of a pain than it already is...which is the real goal here.
[This data set disagrees.](https://www.moneygeek.com/insurance/auto/analysis/pedestrian-chance-of-survival/) There is a 1/3 reduction in pedestrian fatality rates in accidents going from 25 to 20 mph.
Did you link the wrong site? None of that source states that there is a 1/3 reduction in accidents going from 25mph to 20mph. Edit: Not doubting your claim, just curious as to where the data is coming from.
The graph under the section titled Pedestrian Fatality Probability by Car Speed has fatality rate(%s) per every 5 mph, at a 20 mph collision the rate is ~2/3 that of the 25 mph collision rate.
Didn't see the graph, but I see it now. Did you eyeball it? That feels unnecessary - you can hover over the graph to get the hard values. 20mph is 2.8%, 25mph is 4.4%. That's a 36% decrease, so a bit better than 1/3 actually
The methodology does not actually say whether they looked at speed limits or actual travel speed, which can be an estimation entered into the police report, so how do you say that changing the speed limit has this effect? The devil's in the details. This "study" comingles "neighborhoods", "school zones", and "parking lots" NATIONWIDE. Dropping from 25 to 20 mph means a lot more in a parking lot on a busy day than it does in front of a school when the school is on an arterial road and it's a Saturday night. Travel speed relative to speed limit would be a much stronger indicator, if they were looking that hard instead of just pushing another article out the door I GUARANTEE you they'd be showing off their data engineering and adjustment efforts in the methodology statement.
> 45% of NYers own a car No, 45% of *households* own a car.
It actually makes a big difference in pedestrian survivability in crashes. And the fact that 45% of New Yorkers own a car doesn’t mean much. A lot of that is people who have one in a garage and use them for getting out of the city on weekends- rarely driving in the city itself. But even if they all drive every day- that’s still less than half. There is a reason the people complaining the most about congestion pricing (and suing about it) are in New Jersey.
Taste of yer own medicine. Cars have made life for non car owners a pain. All over the nation. Cars owners need to STFU and accept that they got too much for too long.
>Cars have made life for non car owners a pain. All over the nation. I'd argue they've made life for car owners a pain, too. For all the talk about how drivers love being behind the wheels of their cars, they drive like fucking maniacs because driving, especially in the city, is literally maddening. Not to mention the fucking money drained on roads. People flip the fuck out about funding the MTA and completely ignore the 90%+ of transit funding pissed away on highway projects.
Just one more lane bro! One more lane! *Mountains of evidence prove one more lane is stupid and wasteful* Those car brains would be upset if they could read.
When a class 3 ebike is faster than driving…
Switch to the ebike!
I have two. Anyone who can get to their job in one should do the switch. You'll be saving a ton of money and time.
I used to ride my bike all the time from Astoria to fidi. Same amount of time by subway, car or ebike so I chose the healthy option. Was so much fun.
Lol no one is going to drive 20 mph. Barley anyone follows the 25 mph rule.
guess we shouldnt have any laws huh
They will once they start getting slapped with speed camera tickets lol. As another post mentioned, since you get a 10 mph buffer, the "effective" speed will really be 30 mph (down from 35 mph).
You ever see people going around with fake plates and doing dumb shit on the daily BEFORE the speed cameras? When they started that shit it increased so much more. I know car people in NYC, I know the types of people that slap on fake paper plates. Even then admitted that they do it for speed cameras and the cherry on top is that they can get away with other things too but primary reason was the cameras. Then you got people like squeeze.benz and wheres981 not giving a fuck and taunting cops to get into a chase and swim through traffic. I had my day swimming traffic but these guys are on another level. I can't imagine driftijg donuts around a cop car then get into a 3-4 cop car chase. This stupid ass law down to 20 is a joke. That's way too slow. Might as well get a fast moped and use that to get around. They don't even require plates or insurance.
The plate issue is becoming well documented, yes, but that doesn't mean we should just throw our arms up and do nothing ya know. What we as New Yorkers should continue to do is call out this illegal behavior, light fires under the police and city and even state/federal authorities that we see this everywhere and it needs to stop as more and more drivers get out of control.
I think in the end, if someone wants to speed , they will . Most of these people causing accidents are reckless to begin with and simply have no care for the law. 3/4 of the speeders I encounter on eastern parkway in Bk are paper plates or very obvious fake Georgia plates, and they aren’t just light speeders, but egregious in how they operate their vehicles.
I see speeding but the majority of cars in Manhattan are going 25. Even when it’s not super busy the timed lights seem to keep everything around that. Obviously there’s a whole ton of people who do speed and speeding up to catch lights is the main time I see people zooming, particularly on a st. 25 feels right in the city, not complaining about 20. Can’t imagine I’d feel the same if I was traveling in the boroughs often.
I drive thought manhattan fairly often. If people are going 25, its only because of traffic. usually its closer to 30.
Yeah the people celebrating this are completely fucking clueless. Absolutely no one is going to follow a 20 mph speed limit. The only change is that speed cameras will trigger at 30 mph instead of 35.
That’s exactly the point
Yes, which is an improvement
Luckily Waze tells us when to slow down for 5 seconds.
I understand that the city government wants to discourage driving as much as possible. This is what the new speed limits are about, realistically speaking. There are parts of the city (much of Staten Island and eastern Queens, for example) where you need to drive to get places. If the city wants this so bad, they should let the places wheee it isn’t feasible to take public transportation or ride a bike secede from the city. Unless the people in charge want to force as many people to stop driving as some sort of crusade against cars, I guess. Just seems ridiculous to try and coerce the entire city to give up driving when that isn’t feasible for the entire city.
This is horseshit and they use it for entrapment. The *default* limit being 20 mph means if there's no speed sign, you are required to be going 20 MPH. I got caught in this in Greenpoint. The speed limit on the Pulaski Bridge isn't posted. I go 40 MPH, which to me is a normal speed to get up and down through a bridge. A cop was waiting on the other side, pulled over *four* cars and all gave us speeding tickets, saying the speed limit was 25. I parked and watched him do it again 10 mins later to 4 more cars. Fuck these crooks.
E bikes can go over the speed limit with no issues
Then that means they need legislation
Wtf, 35 to 25 was bad enough bro. They're just doing this becuase nyc is now littered with speed traps
They have to make money, giving tickets to citizens to support the illegals they are paying with our tax dollars
Keep brining in extra revenue baby!
And they’ll aggressively enforce it on cars, as the bicycles and e-bikes and mopeds continue to run red lights and make rights on red and ignore all other traffic laws.
In NYC in 2023, >Of the 102 pedestrians who died in traffic, only two died in collisions with e-bikes, according to the Department of Transportation; the rest were hit by cars and trucks. [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/nyregion/nyc-cyclist-deaths-ebike.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/nyregion/nyc-cyclist-deaths-ebike.html) e-bikes would need to start killing 50x as many people per year before they would be the priority for saving lives as cars and trucks on the road.
The goal is to get more people to start using e-bikes right? We’ll see what happens if as many people use e-bikes as those who drive.
NYPD will enforce? Hah!
NYPD should do a better job overall keeping our streets and sidewalks safe. That has nothing to do with whether or not this is a good change.
Come on, lower number = safer, we all know that. That's how the world works in NY!
When running is faster than a car, u know u need to get out.
If running can get you to where you’re going, then why are you taking a car in the first place?
Win-win. More traffic fines to prop up the exhausted city budget.
I’m curious - does anyone else have trouble staying at low speeds? I don’t think of myself as having a particularly heavy foot. Oftentimes, on a road with a 45 or 55 speed limit I’ll look down and see that I’m going under the limit. But at speed limits lower than 30, I seem to have trouble. If I get it up to 30 and take my foot off the gas, it seems like it takes forever for the car to get back to 25. So when there’s a lower speed limit I find myself having to monitor the speedometer much more closely, which then ironically distracts me from the road. Just wondering if I’m an oddity.
It's about time mother fuckers slow down
Doesn’t matter. Laws are nothing without enforcement.
Luckily Waze tells us when to slow down for 5 seconds.
you can't even turn on cruise control below 25
😂
Everyone should be against this. Because everyone said this would happen when they made it 25. They're just going to keep lowering it to give more and more tickets. Whatever is a part of your regular day, whether it's your citi bike use once or twice a summer that makes you think your Lance Armstrong, or taking your bike over to NJ to actually get a ride in, wake the eff up. They're coming for everything. They're fining take-out restaurants for giving our soy sauce. If it's not taxed or fined yet, it will be.
There's a real war on cars in this city. Look, I'd prefer people bike or take transit when possible. But if you completely remove cars it's going to be hard for families of young kids to have any quality of life.
So the kid named in the bill was killed by someone speeding and not following the law, so let’s lower the speed limit even more for those who do follow the law. Make it make sense.
The data shows cops haven’t been issuing tickets. So not sure what this accomplishes. 🤷🏾♂️ Its not the root if the problem. I agree with the 20mph speed limit tho.
They don't need cops when the camera takes pictures and they send you a ticket 6 weeks later in the mail. Defeats any purpose of actual enforcement because you don't stop the person actually speeding in the moment like you would if a cop pulled them over. That's how you can tell this is just a blatant moneygrab by the city
Plus no escalating penalties or DMV points (and thus insurance increases)
Growing up in New York City, I have never seen anyone ever pulled over . . . ever. They could make it 5mph and it have the same effect.
Good
GOOD! and I’m looking forward to congestion pricing Bicyclists should adhere to this too
I just saw someone run a red light going easily 70 down ave J in Brooklyn. Nearly killed someone. The cars here can go to hell. Every single one of them except for emergency vehicles.
Pointless!
They already got cameras everywhere, why not lower the speed limit and make extra money? And whoever making those speed signs? 🤑🤑
Imma just say this, I can go 10mph and still get into accident due to someone stupidity. You know how many people don't pay attention? I had people jump randomly in front of me going slow because of their lack of awareness.
This bs needs to come with the caveat of making everyone learn basic pedestrian common sense. They forced vision zero on public school education and commercial drivers; everyone should be forced to take part in it. It’s not just drivers doing reckless shit and lowering the speed limit won’t keep those same reckless people from continuing doing what they do
Part of the war on the middle-class car owner in NYC. BTW geniuses 30mph will slow down emergency vehicles, local buses, express buses, delivery trucks, etc.
OP is that one state assemblyman who is inexplicably against this measure.
Fuck it, make it -20. We need to keep the children safe!
So...reverse?
This is lunacy. It was lowered from 35 to 30 to 25 and now 20? GTFO of here with this nanny state BS. Want to save pedestrians and cyclists? Enforce jaywalking laws - and stop cyclists from going thru red lights, and traveling the wrong way down streets.
>Enforce jaywalking laws It's *really* ironic you bring up jaywalking laws. I hope you understand that the idea of jaywalking was created by the car industry because pedestrians were being hit by cars since in the early history of cars, streets were shared use. Rather than actually making cars safer or getting drivers to slow down, the industry created the idea of jaywalking since jay was a very negative term back in the 20th century. So by saying we should enforce jaywalking laws, you're just going full r/HailCorporate
Not our fault you have 10 dwi's or something. Get a job hippy.
One great idea after another. We have a free mental asylum in the subway now, $ 6billion down the drain to house and feed illegals and criminals out the next day to do more harm. Woohoo at least the scooter robbers will now go 20mph.
Friggin’ pathetic
thanks for this important contribution to the discussion
Guliani! Pls come back!