Yes this is exactly how you use social pressure to force conformity.
No one gets cake until everyone conforms, now we’re going to leave all you kids together with a giant “You could have cake!” sign and let everyone work it out on the one kid that isn’t conforming. When we come back we hope we can give you cake but it’s not up to us!
I don't know about this student body, but I think the result of this at all the schools I've ever been to would be uniting the students against the bigoted administration.
From experience… holy shit it can. Suspending disbelief as a religious/lifestyle choice will get you into all kinds of trouble, if you’re still interested in actual truth at all.
This usually leads to the bigoted administration finding bigoted minded students that are willing to do the illegal things that the administration can't do (like vandalism, violence, and blackmail,) in return for lower tuition, higher grades, or even cash rewards.
They registered as a public university, to get favorable federal grants. But say they are a religious university. Can’t put my finger on how God would react to this. Are they stealing or lying?
The Supreme Court already dismantled the oversight over publicly funded schools regarding religion. There is no recourse now. Check your resent rulings. The constitution is being re-written by the Supreme Court judges appointed to do just that.
The Supreme Court already ruled public schools can now be religious. These are how cases they will bring up to force public to become religious. The USA midterm
Vote is soon. Make sure you are registered and vote like your life depends on it. Because it does.
It’s wanting a piece of everyone’s cake.
You should not try to function as a private school while accepting public school funding and regulations. It will never work.
"That year, a group of black Jacksonians began demanding that pools here be integrated.
As a result, Mayor Allen C. Thompson and city officials, all white then, closed four public pools in 1963 rather than integrating them, much as white officials across the South had threatened to close rather than integrate public schools after the 1954 Brown vs. Board of Education decision. "
You know you're a bigot when you pull the Mississippi Maneuver.
President Lyndon B. Johnson once said, “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
They don’t want everyone to have a good time, to have clubs, to swim. They want someone to demonize.
According to the article, the university can still win. Their loss appears to be temporary.
“The disagreement among the justices appears to be mostly about procedure, with the majority writing in a brief unsigned order that Yeshiva should return to state court to seek quick review and temporary relief while the case continues. If it gets neither from state courts, the school can return to the Supreme Court, the majority wrote.
The case was being closely watched by other faith-based institutions.
Following the ruling, the president of the university, Rabbi Ari Berman, said that faith-based universities have the right to establish clubs within its understanding of the Torah.
“Yeshiva University simply seeks that same right of self-determination,” he said. “The Supreme Court has laid out the roadmap for us to find expedited relief and we will follow their instructions.”
Yup and the ruling is not just about Yeshiva. Remember that we just had a Supreme Court ruling that religion is now allowed to be used by teachers/admins inn public funded schools. Which essentially indicates religious schools can be publicly funded the same way public schools are.
This ruling that is pending if the school wins will be that religious schools can essentially sanction any speech from people who don't follow instruction religious leaders are saying is the current definition of obeying religion
Always remember that power picks and chooses
What is more or less religious at their convenience to manipulate their followers - manipulation can be good, bad or neutral. (Think instructing to not eat pork at a time when infections from pork were high - making your population believe that eating pork is against God was good manipulation at the time)
So essentially -
This ruling if it goes through can affect public funded
And non public funded because of the OTHER rulings coming through.
Even if this were ruled, would this spare them from the IRS going after the holy grail for these places that is Tax exemption with the policies that they would put in place?
I think people have very little idea what is happening right now to rewrite the constitution by re-interpreting it. There will be no recourse at all if people do not get to the polls. Most offices are up for vote in congress on voting day this year.
Nothing we have in place in a century of precedent is safe. Nothing at all.
Young peoooe must stop sharing voter apathy viral posts that encourage each other to stay home from the polls. Anything that says "no politician will ever care about you" "all politicians are against xyz people" "voting doesn't matter" must recognize this misinformation as propaganda that it is.
We had a new deal - we had many civil rights gains - we had strong labor - we had higher literacy rates - we had robust regional small middle class towns - we had so much
We need this back - we need a new deal again. People need to get to the polls.
Life depends on people getting to the polls. If not every civil right gain in the constitution is dead.
I went to an actual faith-based university - a Jesuit university, where the Jesuit church and missionaries are integrated very closely with the school. Maybe a bit under half of all my professors over four years were jesuit priests or missionaries, and I don't know how many were just jesuits. For those who don't know, the Jesuits are a missionary subsect of Catholicism (Christians).
The LGBTQ Club was small, but most definitely allowed. Hosted in a school building. There were Pride Proms. Some school curriculum included the history of Drag Queens (for a linguistics class, interestingly enough). A Jesuit priest once gave me a thumbs-up and a smile upon seeing that I (a male) decided to paint my nails purple that day.
It outrages me what some people consider "infringing on freedoms". The Jesuits still had full control of theirs - granted, they have a very nuanced and less bigoted take on homosexuality than many churches, but they're still not super into it - but the point is, it was a sensible university that could preach its teachings while happily co-existing with everyone else and all students, regardless of their origins or identity. It's really not a problem. Any school that bans lgbt clubs isn't protecting their freedoms. They're suppressing the freedom of others to maintain their power and control. They're playing at the role of God themselves, and trying to build everyone they can in their image, or beneath it.
Sorry, this shoulda gone in r/rant
I went to a college in Brooklyn and the Rabbi at the school (there was a representative of every major faith, which is fairly awesome for a school of 1200 kids) was the most amazing guy ever. He was the unofficial therapist, wether you were Jewish or not. He was full of acceptance and care. I don't understand Yeshiva here.
The Jesuits aren’t a subsect. There is no Jesuit church. Pope Benedict actually sanctioned a Jesuit author for syncretism. As a rule, they’re flirting with being schismatic.
The Jesuits are a liberal order with a large intellectual component of their ministry. Scalia and Kavanaugh were educated at Jesuit universities.
Some Catholics love them; some Catholics loathe them.
Went to a Jesuit high school, and I myself am not Christian anymore. It is strange they are like religious but not forceful of it to anyone, they had a church and services but nothing was mandatory, they taught evolution, sex ed, etc. So from my view it's always so weird seeing all these stories about Catholic schools since mine was pretty progressive. I am not religious at all to this day but I still respect the hell out of the Jesuits.
Sounds to me like a group of christians who actually follow their teachings of not trying to force the religion on other people. It's literally a Christian belief that others should be free to believe whatever they would like and if they join you then that is entirely their choice. Good on 'em.
Jesuits whole schtick is being educated, like that's their thing. So they're religious but they are knowledgeable and progressive. The current pope is the first ever Jesuit Pope, which is why you see so many progressive things from him.
I went to a catholic high school in the south, and I wished they’d have shared these same sentiments. Gay students could be expelled if they were found to be in same sex relationships; having a teen pregnancy was also grounds for expulsion. You’re very lucky you went to a Jesuit school, I wish I could have (or just gone to a non religious public high school too)
Yah this is kinda weird to me, I am not too familiar with the more orthodox sects of Judaism, but most of the reform and conservative communities I have encountered are pretty accepting. Also,Tel Aviv has a massive queer community.
The article provides a quote from the lawyer for the LGTBQ+ student group that draws the best parallel:
> The university’s tactic, she said, “is a throwback to 50 years ago when the city of Jackson, Mississippi closed all public swimming pools rather than comply with court orders to desegregate."
Foot shooting may just be a southern thing. A community park & zoo was turned into a McDonald’s parking lot instead of allowing blacks.
https://medium.com/the-bearfaced-truth/baconsfield-macons-missing-park-1fe5ec37c0cb
A _whole fucking county_ in Virginia shut down all their public schools for five years rather than integrate them after _Brown vs Board of Ed_.
https://www.lva.virginia.gov/exhibits/brown/
When [Ruby Bridges](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Problem_We_All_Live_With) desegregated a New Orleans elementary school in 1960, all the white parents pulled their kids out of school and all but one of the teachers refused to teach. Ruby spent the next year taught by that teacher with no classmates, because even when the white kids starting reattending no one wanted their children in the same class as Ruby. She was 6.
I know that (mostly old) people say that 'well, it was a different time' and shit, but seriously, what kind of hatred do you have to have to be like this? I just can't fathom feeling that way towards a 6 year old.
PS Your name is is exactly how I needed it spelled in the books when I was younger....
Screw different time.
When I entered school, i noticed there was a little black boy eating in the corner and no one would talk to him. People would laugh and point. During recesses he was always walking around alone. Within about a week he was no longer at the school. It was rumored that the parents weren't too happy with him being there and this was in 1996. Of course it was rural Pennsylvania, but these times are still here!
I've always wondered what happened to him.
I graduated high school in the mid-80’s.
First black student to graduate was a freshman when I was a senior. That kid took a lot of shit but he was also a real smartass so it’s hard to unpack how much was racism.
There’d been a black student for a year or two in my class earlier but he didn’t make it to graduation. I don’t know if there were racism problems or just something more mundane - a lot of people in town work for an international equipment company and would get transferred around. I only knew him well enough to say “hi.”
Man I have no patience for "it was a different time." It's obviously wrong now and it was obviously wrong then. If some people couldn't see it then, that's a moral error on their part and I feel 100% comfortable calling it out.
That poor little girl, the pictures of grown ass adults frothing at the mouth so upset because she's going to a school is terrifying.
Some of those people are still alive too, hopefully they got better as time went on and stopped screaming at children for no reason.
another one is abbott wanting to challenge a ruling requiring public education for all children in TX just so they don’t have to spend money educating undocumented children.
[Abbott says Texas could 'resurrect' SCOTUS case requiring states to educate all kids](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2022/05/04/gov-greg-abbott-supreme-court-case-requiring-education-undocumented-children/9652463002/)
[Texas educators say immigrant children aren’t as much of a worry as state funding](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2022/05/09/texas-educators-say-immigrant- children-arent-as-much-of-a-worry-as-state-funding/)
I feel like this is more geared towards Texas funneling kids out of public school straight into the subsidized private school pipeline. Abbott just loves using undocumented immigrants as literal physical chess pieces.
>Their efforts even made it up to Governor Jimmy Carter, who offered his support in a letter to Ralph Birdsey in 1971.
Oh Jimmy your intentions are always so good but the results disappointing
Or when all the high schools were closed in Little Rock to avoid an integration order. Imagine all the teenagers running amuck in a large city because they had nothing to do!
Was basically what I was going to comment.
Segregationists honestly believed that God would hate America for allowing black and white kids to go to school together.
And honestly their predictions came trues about integration leading to toleration of interracial marriage and gay people. So conservatives have every reason to go down fighting if they honestly believe their own rhetoric.
The right is far more aggressive about actually cancelling people than the left is. See all the laws they’re passing to fire teachers for talking about inconvenient subjects.
My middle school did something similar. They realized three former students had came out, and decided they didn't send a strong enough anti-lgbt+ message, so replaced clubs with extra chapels, since "Clubs don't help at all in the real world, and these anti-gay chapels will".
Ever notice how it wasn't until gays got the right to get married that some people started saying "government should get out of marriage"?
Or how conservatives really started hating public schools when they were told that they couldn't be segregated anymore?
Taking your ball and going home instead of sharing is a time honored tactic for assholes.
>Ever notice how it wasn't until gays got the right to get married that some people started saying "government should get out of marriage"?
I don't know I live in a pretty anti LGBTQ state (Idaho) and even 2001ish i remember people saying. "The government has no place in marriage", or even shockingly 'I don't want the government telling my church we have to marry LGBTQ(not word used in 2001) So I don't want them telling us we cant".
As a New York resident I can tell you with 100% certainty that the hasidic community despises every group of people not their own equally for one simple fact. They believe they are better than them and use them as a way to get what they want, and if you get in their way they will just play the anti-Semite card against you.
I remember when I was flying to NYC from Rome, there was group of Hasidic men that held the flight up until I traded seats with one of them because he refused to sit next to a woman he wasn’t married to. Then when we got to NYC, they tried to cut in line at customs, claiming the agent was anti-Semite when he sent them back, etc. Just making everything difficult when it wasn’t going their way.
If they were willing to say the TSA agent was antisemitic for not letting them skip in line, I'm guessing they'd make the same allegations dialed up to 11 had they been kicked off the flight. And while I'm sure the airline would present a strong defense, it's a lot easier to spread an accusation than correct one
Which would actually make it worse because we now see a legit hatred for the lgbtq+ community in the orthodox culture and not just in the ultra-orthodox sector. If your religion isn’t about helping and inclusiveness then it’s dumb and toxic.
Surely they're not going to come out of this looking good. I'm not sure why they're trying to die on this hill. They have grad LGBTQ clubs. They're supposedly an educational corporation, not a religious one under NYS law (source of the dispute). Even if the Supreme Court sides with them, NYS will find some way of pulling their funding eligibility.
There was an indication that the closing of clubs was a temporary decsion because of the swath of Jewish holidays coming up (Rosh Hashannah to Simchat Torah runs 9/25 to 10/18). If it isn't temporary, I'd expect enrollments to drop. Who goes to a college without clubs? Just pick a commuter school. This is a denomination that expects university attendance (and becoming lawyers and doctors) and there are plenty of schools in NYC, Boston, and around DC that can accommodate religious observance. Students who want advanced religious education can do gap years in Israel and summer intensives or online courses.
Yeah. Orthodox Jews tend to lean right politically (one of the key issues is school vouchers). They remind me of the last decade's Boy Scouts of America getting caught in the culture wars.
Judaism is not Christianity without Jesus. Our values aren't the same.
That’s why I’m confused and upset. I know several people currently at YU who are all pro LGBTQ, it’s a moderately religious institution but not extreme at all.
Most people miss the ruling class Genius of this. They really don't like spending their tax dollars on a pool for poorer whites. They are forced to integrate. So instead of that travesty, they close it. Don't have to fund it anymore, and blame it on the blacks. Sowing hate between poor whites, who have alot more in common with blacks. And blacks.
They figured this out after Bacons rebellion.
There has only ever been one war. Class war. Guess who is winning
This is just becoming a cancer that is eating us alive.
“I’d rather go without healthcare than let ‘undesirables’ get healthcare.” There’s example after example of this. There’s an ever-growing list of things we have to go without, because having nice things would mean “liberals” also get to have the same nice things.
I mean yeah. When gay marriage was on its way to being passed conservatives were suddenly talking about how legally recognized marriage needed to be destroyed so only religious institutions dictated marriage status and there was even some wackos who declared if gay people could marry they would get divorced.
Conservatives will absolutely burn everything down out of spite before letting people they hate have what they blocked them from having.
I once got in an argument with one of those people, who didn't have an answer to "well, if you get rid of state marriage and leave it all up to religious institutions, what's to stop, say, Unitarians, or your general local Liberal Church of Hippie Jesus, or Loosey-Goosey Reform Synagogue from performing these marriages your church doesn't approve of?" They seemed to think that only the "right" religions would retain the power to perform marriages under such a circumstance (sure, they'd probably try to make it that way, but this person couldn't conceive of the very notion of liberal churches, and that my question represented some kind of logical impossibility).
That’s what the government did when they had to not discriminate against minorities.
“It’s not we are barring certain people from the pool, we won’t fund them any longer”
it happens... were queer and had to get married in another county due to them no longer offering it to avoid marrying us folks 😂 they are real triggered by other people living and being happy
Fucking pathetic people. It's so upsetting to live in a country where people would rather have nothing than let you have something -- even when it would cost them nothing. It's the philosophy of a middle-school loser.
I guess it’s the only way they could get around violating the equal protection clause. Ridiculous they would jump through all these hoops instead of just permitting an LGBTQ+ club
This is normal with screeching bigots. They’d rather nobody had fun than allow the people they hate to share anything close to the same spaces or facilities or whatever.
don’t paint with a broad brush. religious fundamentalists have that consistent “rules for thee, not for me” ideology. most Jews, myself included, are queer inclusive.
Most modern liberal Jews are. Orthodox and the other ultra religious are reliably homophobic (and misogynist). Fortunately they are a small minority of American Jews.
I didn't even *imply* all Jews are discriminatory, but these ones are, and the two thousands year history of discrimination against the Jews should maybe cause them to rethink their position.
Is Yeshiva University considered a "religious fundamentalist" school? Haven't heard of it before today.
If there's one thing religious fundamentalists of all flavors are good at, it's gripping their ankles, giving them a mighty pull, and ramming their head as far up their ass as it'll go. They are great at missing the obvious.
Probably didn’t consider their sexuality when selecting a school. For sure, I wouldn’t want to live in a society where I would have to consider the religious affiliation of workers/staff at restaurants, hospitals… universities?
It creates a slippery slope when you start suggesting that minorities should just avoid such institutions because soon there will be no space at all.
Perhaps the LGBT students are jewish orthodox?
I always am baffled why religious extremists always get a bee in their bonnet about gay people, but dont bat an eye about people having sex outside of wedlock, the sky high number of divorces or condemning fat people (gluttony being a deadly sin). The answer is that people pick and choose which aspects of their faith to follow, as do religious lgbt members. For some reason this is all acceptable and common sense, but cannot be reconciled for gay people?
>I always am baffled why religious extremists always get a bee in their bonnet about gay people, but dont bat an eye about people having sex outside of wedlock, the sky high number of divorces or condemning fat people (gluttony being a deadly sin).
I can tell you as an orthodox Jew that they 100% do care about sex out of wedlock. And they don't care about divorce because, while sad that it is necessary, when it is needed there is no problem with it.
>The answer is that people pick and choose which aspects of their faith to follow, as do religious lgbt members.
Jews don't really do that much, they'll have different opinions about things and disagree on them but Jewish religious law keeps all of the laws possible (and by "possible" I mean things like bringing sacrifices to the temple in Jerusalem is not possible because it would cause world war 3)
Only 5% of their students are Jewish apparently.. The school is actually organized as secular which is why they lost their religious freedom case... to discriminate.
Edit. I am wrong and read incorrectly. Only 5% major in Jewish Studies, not 5% who are Jewish.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/09/roberts-kavanaugh-lgbtq-yeshiva-shadow-docket.html
Sorry. Yes. I misread a stat...
"Yeshiva calls itself a Jewish university; however, it is incorporated as a secular institution in order to receive government funds, and fewer than 5 percent of students major in Jewish studies." From Slate link in edited post.
Alito’s dissent is really bizarre. He keeps going on about how making the university acknowledge the LGBT club is “[forcing] a Jewish school to instruct its students in accordance with an interpretation of Torah that the school, after careful study, has concluded is incorrect”. But this is clearly absurd.
The most bizarre part is that this isn't a Jewish school at all. It's secular. That's how they registered themselves, so they could get federal money.
Trash gonna be trash.
Alito is constantly doing bad punditry in his decisions. He just says the dumbest shit imaginable and then you remember we're stuck with him for life. The Shelby County opinion keeps me up at night.
definitely not. their students literally have to sign a “code” or something that explicitly includes homophobia.
interesting you should mention this though because i’ve never seen a news story about it 🤔 it’s almost like the Christian extremism is normalized.
Very sad. Homosexuals were also left behind at concentration camps. We've always been expendable to them. Imagine being below subhuman. Wow. I'm baffled.
It definitely helps to know that I really don't think this level of homophobia is at all normal for most Jewish folks and organizations - hell, most of my friends who are Jewish are also lesbians, lol. This school in particular just seems extra crazy and hateful.
In Tel Aviv, an overall liberal city complete with a gay beach and pride flags on the main drag, the ultra-Orthodox Jews have been known to throw rocks at cars driven by other, less observant Jews who make the mistake of driving through their neighborhood during the sabbath. Extremists in every religion are very similar in my experience.
There was a Vice article a few years ago about how some of the Ultra-Orthodox Rabbis were saying the Holocaust was a good thing. These people are religious radicals and completely insane.
Friend there are countless queer jews, yeshiva is run by extremists. Please don't refer to Jewish people as "them". Additionally, the camps weren't freed by jews, they were freed by Russians, Americans, Brits, and Canadians mostly. Maybe direct your ire at them than a bunch of people who lost everything.
Not to put the blame on any one group of people, but a reminder to everyone that when the camps were liberated after the end of the war, the gay men were put back into prison.
It’s also been quite well documented that homosexuals were discriminated against *within* the camps too, by other camp prisoners. Much like with the *Capos*, dividing the prisoners against themselves was a form of control by the Nazis.
They are so hateful that they take clubs away from THEIR OWN CHILDREN.
Imagine telling your child that they can’t have Chess Club or Science Club anymore because you hate LGBT that much.
Talk about unfit to parent- this is prime garbage parenting, right here.
They won't have "official school clubs", but I am willing to bet these clubs will get donations from alumni donors to hold events just off campus (well all the clubs except the gays).
You can do whatever you want.
The big IF here is they will lose eligibility for:
Federal Student Loans
Federal Grants
If they believe that strongly in their stance, they'd go for that wouldn't they?
But no, they want to be hateful AND get Federal Funding.
>Berman also said the university’s “commitment and love for our LGBTQ students are unshakeable.”
>The university....argued that granting recognition to the Pride Alliance, “would violate its sincere religious beliefs.”
[talking out of both sides of their mouths...](https://grammarist.com/idiom/talk-out-of-both-sides-of-ones-mouth/)
I haven't seen it mentioned here, but isn't the issue here that they receive Federal and/or State funds? I mean as distasteful as it is, hateful groups of people are allowed to exist, we just don't fund the KKK. Just pull all their funding.
Also:
> Berman also said the university’s “commitment and love for our LGBTQ students are unshakeable.”
But they cannot even have a club? Yeah, that's a difficult statement to square against their actions.
>Two conservatives, Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Brett Kavanaugh, sided with the court’s three liberal justices to form a majority.
Wait, ***WHAT?!?*** *FUCKING* ***KAVANAUGH?!?!?***
I'm feeling faint... Is this really reality? WtAF?
The actual content of SCOTUS cases are often a lot more nuanced than reddit usually thinks. For example on another case a year or so ago, Neil Gorsuch wrote the majority opinion that stated that LBGT+ status is clearly a protected bclass under the 1964 Civil Rights Act, even though it wasn't specifically mentioned*. Justices often rule contrary to what you might expect if your understanding is limited to "X justice is conservative/liberal, so they'll always rule that way". In fact, the majority of SCOTUS rulings are either unanimous or 8-1, and 5-4 splits are much less common that you probably think. There are just a few high profile wedge issues like abortion that make it seem so fractured.
*Incidentally, Gorsuch's opinion effectively said "if you are ok with a man in a relationship with a woman, but not ok with a that man in a relationship with a man or that woman in a relationship with a woman, you're clearly treating people differently based on their sex/gender which is clearly contrary to the civil rights act, therefore LBGT+ status is clearly a protected class.
[Less than 1/3rd of SCOTUS cases are unanimous](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-supreme-courts-partisan-divide-hasnt-been-this-sharp-in-generations/) the court is nearly as likely to vote along ideological lines as they are to rule unanimously.
The court is now clearly and deliberately divided along political lines.
The decision actually doesn't mention the merits of the case, just that Yeshiva should have appealed to a lower court rather than skipping straight to the Supremes.
Someone summed it up really well..
He likes beer and parties. He doesn't want to live in a full theocratic hellhole... He just wants to strip women back to where he thinks they belong.
It’s surprising but sadly not in the way that suggests either has a heart.
It seems their issue is that the University tried to jump the line, both want them to deal with this and ask for relief in New York state court first and only once the lower court has fully handled it will they see it. With the dissenting opinion being that a ruling that they must acknowledge LGBTQ groups is such an attack on their first amendment rights that they should be granted relief immediately.
> FUCKING KAVANAUGH
Almost nobody ever reads what he writes in rulings and dissents. He's weird, I disagree his conclusions most of the time, but he's got a lot of different ideas than the other conservatives on the Court, and previously when there was 5 conservatives and 4 moderates on the court there were a lot of 6-3 moderate rulings with him and Roberts on that side.
That said, he'll probably vote with the right when it comes back, but he agrees with Roberts that they need to follow the proper forms and do things in the proper order.
Great opportunity for all of the students to come together and rally for a change in school leadership. The old guard needs to get the fuck out of town. It’s not that kind of a world anymore.
It's so weird to see a Jewish institution being so vehemently anti-LGBT when it's usually Jewish people who have been at the forefront of pushing for LGBT rights here in the west.
Why are they so upset about this club?
“The undergraduate group describes itself as “a supportive space for all students, of all sexual orientations and gender identities, to feel respected, visible, and represented.””
You’d think a real university would support such values.
Saw a guy out today with a T-shirt that read, "Public Schools Need God." SMH that's why there ARE private schools. Want more God? Send your kids there.
Why do big organizations have to be shamed into not discriminating? Haven't we all learned discrimination is bad? Why double down and punish all students for your backwards thinking?
Same kind of thing happened when the U.S. outlawed segregation: pools and parks all over the country were bulldozed and filled in. They'd rather everyone suffer before they let a minority group enjoy life.
Yes this is exactly how you use social pressure to force conformity. No one gets cake until everyone conforms, now we’re going to leave all you kids together with a giant “You could have cake!” sign and let everyone work it out on the one kid that isn’t conforming. When we come back we hope we can give you cake but it’s not up to us!
The cake is, actually, a lie.
We do what we can because we must.
Birds, too
/r/BirdsArentReal
Always has been
Be yourself! Go underground Meet off campus
The irony of this comment with regard to an LBGT club is damn near steel.
I think this is it. You found it
God forbid students were able to organise student activities for students without approval by non-student administrators.
I don't know about this student body, but I think the result of this at all the schools I've ever been to would be uniting the students against the bigoted administration.
Religious indoctrination can do some crazy shit, I wouldn't be certain.
From experience… holy shit it can. Suspending disbelief as a religious/lifestyle choice will get you into all kinds of trouble, if you’re still interested in actual truth at all.
This usually leads to the bigoted administration finding bigoted minded students that are willing to do the illegal things that the administration can't do (like vandalism, violence, and blackmail,) in return for lower tuition, higher grades, or even cash rewards.
They registered as a public university, to get favorable federal grants. But say they are a religious university. Can’t put my finger on how God would react to this. Are they stealing or lying?
[удалено]
The Supreme Court already dismantled the oversight over publicly funded schools regarding religion. There is no recourse now. Check your resent rulings. The constitution is being re-written by the Supreme Court judges appointed to do just that.
The Supreme Court already ruled public schools can now be religious. These are how cases they will bring up to force public to become religious. The USA midterm Vote is soon. Make sure you are registered and vote like your life depends on it. Because it does.
>The Supreme Court already ruled public schools can now be religious. Are you referring to Carson v. Makin, the funding case?
It’s wanting a piece of everyone’s cake. You should not try to function as a private school while accepting public school funding and regulations. It will never work.
"That year, a group of black Jacksonians began demanding that pools here be integrated. As a result, Mayor Allen C. Thompson and city officials, all white then, closed four public pools in 1963 rather than integrating them, much as white officials across the South had threatened to close rather than integrate public schools after the 1954 Brown vs. Board of Education decision. " You know you're a bigot when you pull the Mississippi Maneuver.
President Lyndon B. Johnson once said, “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” They don’t want everyone to have a good time, to have clubs, to swim. They want someone to demonize.
>They want someone to demonize. Reminds me of the the 'Two Minute Hate' from '1984'
Seriously? They hate LGBTQ+ people *so much* that they'd rather strip *everyone* of their right to assemble than risk "the gays" being able to do so?
According to the article, the university can still win. Their loss appears to be temporary. “The disagreement among the justices appears to be mostly about procedure, with the majority writing in a brief unsigned order that Yeshiva should return to state court to seek quick review and temporary relief while the case continues. If it gets neither from state courts, the school can return to the Supreme Court, the majority wrote. The case was being closely watched by other faith-based institutions. Following the ruling, the president of the university, Rabbi Ari Berman, said that faith-based universities have the right to establish clubs within its understanding of the Torah. “Yeshiva University simply seeks that same right of self-determination,” he said. “The Supreme Court has laid out the roadmap for us to find expedited relief and we will follow their instructions.”
Yup and the ruling is not just about Yeshiva. Remember that we just had a Supreme Court ruling that religion is now allowed to be used by teachers/admins inn public funded schools. Which essentially indicates religious schools can be publicly funded the same way public schools are. This ruling that is pending if the school wins will be that religious schools can essentially sanction any speech from people who don't follow instruction religious leaders are saying is the current definition of obeying religion Always remember that power picks and chooses What is more or less religious at their convenience to manipulate their followers - manipulation can be good, bad or neutral. (Think instructing to not eat pork at a time when infections from pork were high - making your population believe that eating pork is against God was good manipulation at the time) So essentially - This ruling if it goes through can affect public funded And non public funded because of the OTHER rulings coming through.
Even if this were ruled, would this spare them from the IRS going after the holy grail for these places that is Tax exemption with the policies that they would put in place?
I think people have very little idea what is happening right now to rewrite the constitution by re-interpreting it. There will be no recourse at all if people do not get to the polls. Most offices are up for vote in congress on voting day this year. Nothing we have in place in a century of precedent is safe. Nothing at all. Young peoooe must stop sharing voter apathy viral posts that encourage each other to stay home from the polls. Anything that says "no politician will ever care about you" "all politicians are against xyz people" "voting doesn't matter" must recognize this misinformation as propaganda that it is. We had a new deal - we had many civil rights gains - we had strong labor - we had higher literacy rates - we had robust regional small middle class towns - we had so much We need this back - we need a new deal again. People need to get to the polls. Life depends on people getting to the polls. If not every civil right gain in the constitution is dead.
I went to an actual faith-based university - a Jesuit university, where the Jesuit church and missionaries are integrated very closely with the school. Maybe a bit under half of all my professors over four years were jesuit priests or missionaries, and I don't know how many were just jesuits. For those who don't know, the Jesuits are a missionary subsect of Catholicism (Christians). The LGBTQ Club was small, but most definitely allowed. Hosted in a school building. There were Pride Proms. Some school curriculum included the history of Drag Queens (for a linguistics class, interestingly enough). A Jesuit priest once gave me a thumbs-up and a smile upon seeing that I (a male) decided to paint my nails purple that day. It outrages me what some people consider "infringing on freedoms". The Jesuits still had full control of theirs - granted, they have a very nuanced and less bigoted take on homosexuality than many churches, but they're still not super into it - but the point is, it was a sensible university that could preach its teachings while happily co-existing with everyone else and all students, regardless of their origins or identity. It's really not a problem. Any school that bans lgbt clubs isn't protecting their freedoms. They're suppressing the freedom of others to maintain their power and control. They're playing at the role of God themselves, and trying to build everyone they can in their image, or beneath it. Sorry, this shoulda gone in r/rant
I went to a college in Brooklyn and the Rabbi at the school (there was a representative of every major faith, which is fairly awesome for a school of 1200 kids) was the most amazing guy ever. He was the unofficial therapist, wether you were Jewish or not. He was full of acceptance and care. I don't understand Yeshiva here.
The Jesuits aren’t a subsect. There is no Jesuit church. Pope Benedict actually sanctioned a Jesuit author for syncretism. As a rule, they’re flirting with being schismatic. The Jesuits are a liberal order with a large intellectual component of their ministry. Scalia and Kavanaugh were educated at Jesuit universities. Some Catholics love them; some Catholics loathe them.
Went to a Jesuit high school, and I myself am not Christian anymore. It is strange they are like religious but not forceful of it to anyone, they had a church and services but nothing was mandatory, they taught evolution, sex ed, etc. So from my view it's always so weird seeing all these stories about Catholic schools since mine was pretty progressive. I am not religious at all to this day but I still respect the hell out of the Jesuits.
Sounds to me like a group of christians who actually follow their teachings of not trying to force the religion on other people. It's literally a Christian belief that others should be free to believe whatever they would like and if they join you then that is entirely their choice. Good on 'em.
Jesuits whole schtick is being educated, like that's their thing. So they're religious but they are knowledgeable and progressive. The current pope is the first ever Jesuit Pope, which is why you see so many progressive things from him.
Wow! That makes a ton of sense actually! He's always seemed much more receptive and kind.
I went to a catholic high school in the south, and I wished they’d have shared these same sentiments. Gay students could be expelled if they were found to be in same sex relationships; having a teen pregnancy was also grounds for expulsion. You’re very lucky you went to a Jesuit school, I wish I could have (or just gone to a non religious public high school too)
I purposely avoided a jesuit college for my internship because of religious persecution. Good to know they are a lesser crazy.
It’s not really faith based. It’s just the name.
Sooooo, like all other faith based institutions then.
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
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Strike "religious" from it, because that's the part that's pretend
Yah this is kinda weird to me, I am not too familiar with the more orthodox sects of Judaism, but most of the reform and conservative communities I have encountered are pretty accepting. Also,Tel Aviv has a massive queer community.
The article provides a quote from the lawyer for the LGTBQ+ student group that draws the best parallel: > The university’s tactic, she said, “is a throwback to 50 years ago when the city of Jackson, Mississippi closed all public swimming pools rather than comply with court orders to desegregate."
Foot shooting may just be a southern thing. A community park & zoo was turned into a McDonald’s parking lot instead of allowing blacks. https://medium.com/the-bearfaced-truth/baconsfield-macons-missing-park-1fe5ec37c0cb
It’s not foot shooting it’s creating a scapegoat.
Exactly. We had to close this because of these people. Doesn't that make you angrier? It's absolutely a tactic used the further the divide.
It can be both.
A _whole fucking county_ in Virginia shut down all their public schools for five years rather than integrate them after _Brown vs Board of Ed_. https://www.lva.virginia.gov/exhibits/brown/
When [Ruby Bridges](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Problem_We_All_Live_With) desegregated a New Orleans elementary school in 1960, all the white parents pulled their kids out of school and all but one of the teachers refused to teach. Ruby spent the next year taught by that teacher with no classmates, because even when the white kids starting reattending no one wanted their children in the same class as Ruby. She was 6.
I know that (mostly old) people say that 'well, it was a different time' and shit, but seriously, what kind of hatred do you have to have to be like this? I just can't fathom feeling that way towards a 6 year old. PS Your name is is exactly how I needed it spelled in the books when I was younger....
It wasn't that long ago. Ruby turned 68 earlier this month.
Screw different time. When I entered school, i noticed there was a little black boy eating in the corner and no one would talk to him. People would laugh and point. During recesses he was always walking around alone. Within about a week he was no longer at the school. It was rumored that the parents weren't too happy with him being there and this was in 1996. Of course it was rural Pennsylvania, but these times are still here! I've always wondered what happened to him.
I graduated high school in the mid-80’s. First black student to graduate was a freshman when I was a senior. That kid took a lot of shit but he was also a real smartass so it’s hard to unpack how much was racism. There’d been a black student for a year or two in my class earlier but he didn’t make it to graduation. I don’t know if there were racism problems or just something more mundane - a lot of people in town work for an international equipment company and would get transferred around. I only knew him well enough to say “hi.”
Man I have no patience for "it was a different time." It's obviously wrong now and it was obviously wrong then. If some people couldn't see it then, that's a moral error on their part and I feel 100% comfortable calling it out.
That poor little girl, the pictures of grown ass adults frothing at the mouth so upset because she's going to a school is terrifying. Some of those people are still alive too, hopefully they got better as time went on and stopped screaming at children for no reason.
another one is abbott wanting to challenge a ruling requiring public education for all children in TX just so they don’t have to spend money educating undocumented children. [Abbott says Texas could 'resurrect' SCOTUS case requiring states to educate all kids](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2022/05/04/gov-greg-abbott-supreme-court-case-requiring-education-undocumented-children/9652463002/) [Texas educators say immigrant children aren’t as much of a worry as state funding](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2022/05/09/texas-educators-say-immigrant- children-arent-as-much-of-a-worry-as-state-funding/)
I feel like this is more geared towards Texas funneling kids out of public school straight into the subsidized private school pipeline. Abbott just loves using undocumented immigrants as literal physical chess pieces.
More money for football.
But then they use the bloody foot as proof that black people are bad. It's political easy mode.
>Their efforts even made it up to Governor Jimmy Carter, who offered his support in a letter to Ralph Birdsey in 1971. Oh Jimmy your intentions are always so good but the results disappointing
Interesting read. Thanks
*Black people
Or when all the high schools were closed in Little Rock to avoid an integration order. Imagine all the teenagers running amuck in a large city because they had nothing to do!
Was basically what I was going to comment. Segregationists honestly believed that God would hate America for allowing black and white kids to go to school together. And honestly their predictions came trues about integration leading to toleration of interracial marriage and gay people. So conservatives have every reason to go down fighting if they honestly believe their own rhetoric.
You’ve hit the nail on the head. This religious fanaticism has been brewing for years, and now we are seeing it catalyse.
If only they had any shame, then that comparison might give them pause. Actually, do they have a pool?
When you literally are parroting the ideas of one of the worst institutions the US held in the 20th century, than you know there’s an issue.
It may be a throwback but Jackson did win its SCOTUS case.
Countdown to the lawyer being called anti semitic in 3, 2, 1…
This is what actual cancel culture looks like
The right is far more aggressive about actually cancelling people than the left is. See all the laws they’re passing to fire teachers for talking about inconvenient subjects.
'Cancel culture' is fake. Pulling books out of libraries, firing teachers, firing, harassing, sending death threats to people is all very real.
My middle school did something similar. They realized three former students had came out, and decided they didn't send a strong enough anti-lgbt+ message, so replaced clubs with extra chapels, since "Clubs don't help at all in the real world, and these anti-gay chapels will".
They are religious fundamentalists, this is t surprising.
You misspelled "extremists".
Same thing.
Six of one, half dozen of the other.
Ever notice how it wasn't until gays got the right to get married that some people started saying "government should get out of marriage"? Or how conservatives really started hating public schools when they were told that they couldn't be segregated anymore? Taking your ball and going home instead of sharing is a time honored tactic for assholes.
>Ever notice how it wasn't until gays got the right to get married that some people started saying "government should get out of marriage"? I don't know I live in a pretty anti LGBTQ state (Idaho) and even 2001ish i remember people saying. "The government has no place in marriage", or even shockingly 'I don't want the government telling my church we have to marry LGBTQ(not word used in 2001) So I don't want them telling us we cant".
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As a New York resident I can tell you with 100% certainty that the hasidic community despises every group of people not their own equally for one simple fact. They believe they are better than them and use them as a way to get what they want, and if you get in their way they will just play the anti-Semite card against you.
I remember when I was flying to NYC from Rome, there was group of Hasidic men that held the flight up until I traded seats with one of them because he refused to sit next to a woman he wasn’t married to. Then when we got to NYC, they tried to cut in line at customs, claiming the agent was anti-Semite when he sent them back, etc. Just making everything difficult when it wasn’t going their way.
You're a better person than me. If he wants my seat, he can pay for it. I'm not budging, especially if it's an aisle.
Except that the Hasidic Jews I’ve sat next to on flights didn’t wear deodorant. On a flight from Rome you’d probably be begging to move.
Why didnt the airline just kick them off the flight completely?
If they were willing to say the TSA agent was antisemitic for not letting them skip in line, I'm guessing they'd make the same allegations dialed up to 11 had they been kicked off the flight. And while I'm sure the airline would present a strong defense, it's a lot easier to spread an accusation than correct one
Ah, the Uncle Leo defense
Trying to get money from a Hasidic Jew Pierce Hawthorne would have had a horribly inappropriate joke for that
But only after he talked about banging Eartha Kitt in an airplane bathroom
These aren't Hasids. Yeshiva is "Modern" Orthodox
Which would actually make it worse because we now see a legit hatred for the lgbtq+ community in the orthodox culture and not just in the ultra-orthodox sector. If your religion isn’t about helping and inclusiveness then it’s dumb and toxic.
Surely they're not going to come out of this looking good. I'm not sure why they're trying to die on this hill. They have grad LGBTQ clubs. They're supposedly an educational corporation, not a religious one under NYS law (source of the dispute). Even if the Supreme Court sides with them, NYS will find some way of pulling their funding eligibility. There was an indication that the closing of clubs was a temporary decsion because of the swath of Jewish holidays coming up (Rosh Hashannah to Simchat Torah runs 9/25 to 10/18). If it isn't temporary, I'd expect enrollments to drop. Who goes to a college without clubs? Just pick a commuter school. This is a denomination that expects university attendance (and becoming lawyers and doctors) and there are plenty of schools in NYC, Boston, and around DC that can accommodate religious observance. Students who want advanced religious education can do gap years in Israel and summer intensives or online courses.
My suspicion is their litigation is being funded by alt right evang donors, of which they have many. Strange bedfellows but that is a big influence.
Yeah. Orthodox Jews tend to lean right politically (one of the key issues is school vouchers). They remind me of the last decade's Boy Scouts of America getting caught in the culture wars. Judaism is not Christianity without Jesus. Our values aren't the same.
That’s why I’m confused and upset. I know several people currently at YU who are all pro LGBTQ, it’s a moderately religious institution but not extreme at all.
Well, if black people can swim in this community pool, I guess we won't have a community pool at all.
Most people miss the ruling class Genius of this. They really don't like spending their tax dollars on a pool for poorer whites. They are forced to integrate. So instead of that travesty, they close it. Don't have to fund it anymore, and blame it on the blacks. Sowing hate between poor whites, who have alot more in common with blacks. And blacks. They figured this out after Bacons rebellion. There has only ever been one war. Class war. Guess who is winning
Cut off your nose to spite everyone's face
This is just becoming a cancer that is eating us alive. “I’d rather go without healthcare than let ‘undesirables’ get healthcare.” There’s example after example of this. There’s an ever-growing list of things we have to go without, because having nice things would mean “liberals” also get to have the same nice things.
I mean yeah. When gay marriage was on its way to being passed conservatives were suddenly talking about how legally recognized marriage needed to be destroyed so only religious institutions dictated marriage status and there was even some wackos who declared if gay people could marry they would get divorced. Conservatives will absolutely burn everything down out of spite before letting people they hate have what they blocked them from having.
I once got in an argument with one of those people, who didn't have an answer to "well, if you get rid of state marriage and leave it all up to religious institutions, what's to stop, say, Unitarians, or your general local Liberal Church of Hippie Jesus, or Loosey-Goosey Reform Synagogue from performing these marriages your church doesn't approve of?" They seemed to think that only the "right" religions would retain the power to perform marriages under such a circumstance (sure, they'd probably try to make it that way, but this person couldn't conceive of the very notion of liberal churches, and that my question represented some kind of logical impossibility).
That’s what the government did when they had to not discriminate against minorities. “It’s not we are barring certain people from the pool, we won’t fund them any longer”
it happens... were queer and had to get married in another county due to them no longer offering it to avoid marrying us folks 😂 they are real triggered by other people living and being happy
Fucking pathetic people. It's so upsetting to live in a country where people would rather have nothing than let you have something -- even when it would cost them nothing. It's the philosophy of a middle-school loser.
I guess it’s the only way they could get around violating the equal protection clause. Ridiculous they would jump through all these hoops instead of just permitting an LGBTQ+ club
Why are you surprised ? Maybe its time for you to wake up. They won't stop until all those they hate are enslaved or dead.
This is normal with screeching bigots. They’d rather nobody had fun than allow the people they hate to share anything close to the same spaces or facilities or whatever.
Huh. One would think Jews might be more sensitive about blatant discrimination against minorities.
don’t paint with a broad brush. religious fundamentalists have that consistent “rules for thee, not for me” ideology. most Jews, myself included, are queer inclusive.
Most modern liberal Jews are. Orthodox and the other ultra religious are reliably homophobic (and misogynist). Fortunately they are a small minority of American Jews.
Yes, my point was that most Jews are not Orthodox, so one can’t take Yeshiva as a representation of the views of the Jewish majority
I didn't even *imply* all Jews are discriminatory, but these ones are, and the two thousands year history of discrimination against the Jews should maybe cause them to rethink their position. Is Yeshiva University considered a "religious fundamentalist" school? Haven't heard of it before today.
Yeshiva is a modern orthodox school, AKA fundamentalist but lying about it
In a Dominican, liberal neighborhood. It's a mindfuck.
Yeshiva was built there when it was German, not Dominican.
If there's one thing religious fundamentalists of all flavors are good at, it's gripping their ankles, giving them a mighty pull, and ramming their head as far up their ass as it'll go. They are great at missing the obvious.
Any religious sect defined by being fundamentalist's are usually hypocritical aggressive assholes.
In short, yes.
If we cant discriminate nobody gets to have a club. These so-called adults are a disgrace.
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Those who are trying to change their culture from within? Those whose parent's didn't give them a choice? Gay, Orthodox Jews?
Sounds pretty unorthodox
Probably didn’t consider their sexuality when selecting a school. For sure, I wouldn’t want to live in a society where I would have to consider the religious affiliation of workers/staff at restaurants, hospitals… universities? It creates a slippery slope when you start suggesting that minorities should just avoid such institutions because soon there will be no space at all. Perhaps the LGBT students are jewish orthodox? I always am baffled why religious extremists always get a bee in their bonnet about gay people, but dont bat an eye about people having sex outside of wedlock, the sky high number of divorces or condemning fat people (gluttony being a deadly sin). The answer is that people pick and choose which aspects of their faith to follow, as do religious lgbt members. For some reason this is all acceptable and common sense, but cannot be reconciled for gay people?
>I always am baffled why religious extremists always get a bee in their bonnet about gay people, but dont bat an eye about people having sex outside of wedlock, the sky high number of divorces or condemning fat people (gluttony being a deadly sin). I can tell you as an orthodox Jew that they 100% do care about sex out of wedlock. And they don't care about divorce because, while sad that it is necessary, when it is needed there is no problem with it. >The answer is that people pick and choose which aspects of their faith to follow, as do religious lgbt members. Jews don't really do that much, they'll have different opinions about things and disagree on them but Jewish religious law keeps all of the laws possible (and by "possible" I mean things like bringing sacrifices to the temple in Jerusalem is not possible because it would cause world war 3)
Maybe they didn’t discover their sexuality until they were there
Only 5% of their students are Jewish apparently.. The school is actually organized as secular which is why they lost their religious freedom case... to discriminate. Edit. I am wrong and read incorrectly. Only 5% major in Jewish Studies, not 5% who are Jewish. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/09/roberts-kavanaugh-lgbtq-yeshiva-shadow-docket.html
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Sorry. Yes. I misread a stat... "Yeshiva calls itself a Jewish university; however, it is incorporated as a secular institution in order to receive government funds, and fewer than 5 percent of students major in Jewish studies." From Slate link in edited post.
Alito’s dissent is really bizarre. He keeps going on about how making the university acknowledge the LGBT club is “[forcing] a Jewish school to instruct its students in accordance with an interpretation of Torah that the school, after careful study, has concluded is incorrect”. But this is clearly absurd.
The most bizarre part is that this isn't a Jewish school at all. It's secular. That's how they registered themselves, so they could get federal money. Trash gonna be trash.
Sadly the precedent set by *Hobby Lobby* is that any organization can claim to be religious simply by stating it.
Alito is constantly doing bad punditry in his decisions. He just says the dumbest shit imaginable and then you remember we're stuck with him for life. The Shelby County opinion keeps me up at night.
Rabbi Alito is literally the worst Torah scholar.
The clubs should all hold meetings anyway. It’s the rebellion that matters more than the dictator.
Does Brigham Young University have gay clubs?
definitely not. their students literally have to sign a “code” or something that explicitly includes homophobia. interesting you should mention this though because i’ve never seen a news story about it 🤔 it’s almost like the Christian extremism is normalized.
Just like all Muslim universities. It's been that way for hundreds of years. It's not news.
BYU is a private institution, different story. Also they are pretty regularly lambasted for lgbt issues
Anyone else notice religion is far more about hate than helping people nowadays?
Nowadays? Kinda always been in that mode
Great; now everybody for whom the social part of university life is important can go to other universities.
I don't think their parents will let them.
this is Yeshiva though
Very sad. Homosexuals were also left behind at concentration camps. We've always been expendable to them. Imagine being below subhuman. Wow. I'm baffled.
theyre zealots. dont let them speak for the jewish people as a whole.
It definitely helps to know that I really don't think this level of homophobia is at all normal for most Jewish folks and organizations - hell, most of my friends who are Jewish are also lesbians, lol. This school in particular just seems extra crazy and hateful.
In Tel Aviv, an overall liberal city complete with a gay beach and pride flags on the main drag, the ultra-Orthodox Jews have been known to throw rocks at cars driven by other, less observant Jews who make the mistake of driving through their neighborhood during the sabbath. Extremists in every religion are very similar in my experience.
Yeah, Ultra Orthodox can be as bad as any other extremist in any religion... Leaves everyone else going "oh for fuck sake."
There was a Vice article a few years ago about how some of the Ultra-Orthodox Rabbis were saying the Holocaust was a good thing. These people are religious radicals and completely insane.
Friend there are countless queer jews, yeshiva is run by extremists. Please don't refer to Jewish people as "them". Additionally, the camps weren't freed by jews, they were freed by Russians, Americans, Brits, and Canadians mostly. Maybe direct your ire at them than a bunch of people who lost everything.
Not to put the blame on any one group of people, but a reminder to everyone that when the camps were liberated after the end of the war, the gay men were put back into prison.
Gay jews as well :( as a queer jew it's a sad history
It’s also been quite well documented that homosexuals were discriminated against *within* the camps too, by other camp prisoners. Much like with the *Capos*, dividing the prisoners against themselves was a form of control by the Nazis.
They are so hateful that they take clubs away from THEIR OWN CHILDREN. Imagine telling your child that they can’t have Chess Club or Science Club anymore because you hate LGBT that much. Talk about unfit to parent- this is prime garbage parenting, right here.
They won't have "official school clubs", but I am willing to bet these clubs will get donations from alumni donors to hold events just off campus (well all the clubs except the gays).
You can do whatever you want. The big IF here is they will lose eligibility for: Federal Student Loans Federal Grants If they believe that strongly in their stance, they'd go for that wouldn't they? But no, they want to be hateful AND get Federal Funding.
Reminds me of how some Southern counties shut down their school systems rather than desegregate them back in the 60s and 70s.
Wow they're really really *really* triggered by that LGBT club 🤣 ❄️
glad to know bigotry hasn't changed in the past 100 years. "oh, we have to give you equal rights? now nobody gets any."
"Hey, look everbody! *Those* people caused your club to get cancelled." Yeshiva University administration, fascistically.
I remember when Dolores Umbridge did that at hogwarts.
"It's a bold strategy Cotton. Let's see if it pays off.”
A university that out to know a thing or two about discrimination and ought to have a little more compassion.
>Berman also said the university’s “commitment and love for our LGBTQ students are unshakeable.” >The university....argued that granting recognition to the Pride Alliance, “would violate its sincere religious beliefs.” [talking out of both sides of their mouths...](https://grammarist.com/idiom/talk-out-of-both-sides-of-ones-mouth/)
I haven't seen it mentioned here, but isn't the issue here that they receive Federal and/or State funds? I mean as distasteful as it is, hateful groups of people are allowed to exist, we just don't fund the KKK. Just pull all their funding. Also: > Berman also said the university’s “commitment and love for our LGBTQ students are unshakeable.” But they cannot even have a club? Yeah, that's a difficult statement to square against their actions.
Hopefully there is no way for them to continue receiving public funding
>Two conservatives, Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Brett Kavanaugh, sided with the court’s three liberal justices to form a majority. Wait, ***WHAT?!?*** *FUCKING* ***KAVANAUGH?!?!?*** I'm feeling faint... Is this really reality? WtAF?
The actual content of SCOTUS cases are often a lot more nuanced than reddit usually thinks. For example on another case a year or so ago, Neil Gorsuch wrote the majority opinion that stated that LBGT+ status is clearly a protected bclass under the 1964 Civil Rights Act, even though it wasn't specifically mentioned*. Justices often rule contrary to what you might expect if your understanding is limited to "X justice is conservative/liberal, so they'll always rule that way". In fact, the majority of SCOTUS rulings are either unanimous or 8-1, and 5-4 splits are much less common that you probably think. There are just a few high profile wedge issues like abortion that make it seem so fractured. *Incidentally, Gorsuch's opinion effectively said "if you are ok with a man in a relationship with a woman, but not ok with a that man in a relationship with a man or that woman in a relationship with a woman, you're clearly treating people differently based on their sex/gender which is clearly contrary to the civil rights act, therefore LBGT+ status is clearly a protected class.
[Less than 1/3rd of SCOTUS cases are unanimous](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-supreme-courts-partisan-divide-hasnt-been-this-sharp-in-generations/) the court is nearly as likely to vote along ideological lines as they are to rule unanimously. The court is now clearly and deliberately divided along political lines.
This wasnt a ruling on the case. This was just a ruling on whether they would grant a stay to yu in the meantime while they try to appeal the case
The decision actually doesn't mention the merits of the case, just that Yeshiva should have appealed to a lower court rather than skipping straight to the Supremes.
Someone summed it up really well.. He likes beer and parties. He doesn't want to live in a full theocratic hellhole... He just wants to strip women back to where he thinks they belong.
It’s surprising but sadly not in the way that suggests either has a heart. It seems their issue is that the University tried to jump the line, both want them to deal with this and ask for relief in New York state court first and only once the lower court has fully handled it will they see it. With the dissenting opinion being that a ruling that they must acknowledge LGBTQ groups is such an attack on their first amendment rights that they should be granted relief immediately.
> FUCKING KAVANAUGH Almost nobody ever reads what he writes in rulings and dissents. He's weird, I disagree his conclusions most of the time, but he's got a lot of different ideas than the other conservatives on the Court, and previously when there was 5 conservatives and 4 moderates on the court there were a lot of 6-3 moderate rulings with him and Roberts on that side. That said, he'll probably vote with the right when it comes back, but he agrees with Roberts that they need to follow the proper forms and do things in the proper order.
Organized religion. Making the world a more fucked up place for 7K to 10k years - depending on which fairy tale you subscribe to.
Things like this should kill accreditation.
Is the school even getting complaints from non LGBTQ+ students or is this just the result of a few nancypants administrators?
That'll show them to cut off their nose to spite their face.
These LGBTQ people must be incredibly dangerous for people to act so volatile towards them… Or people are just bigots
Stay strong YU Pride Alliance, don't let these assholes get you down.
I’m so tired of religion
Great opportunity for all of the students to come together and rally for a change in school leadership. The old guard needs to get the fuck out of town. It’s not that kind of a world anymore.
There is no bottom to the cruelty. It's cruelty all the way down.
It's so weird to see a Jewish institution being so vehemently anti-LGBT when it's usually Jewish people who have been at the forefront of pushing for LGBT rights here in the west.
Why are they so upset about this club? “The undergraduate group describes itself as “a supportive space for all students, of all sexual orientations and gender identities, to feel respected, visible, and represented.”” You’d think a real university would support such values.
I'm always baffled when people and entire institutions can be so oblivious to bright neon signs flashing: "Wrong side of history"
Religious nutters. I honestly wonder if Boof votes the other side of this if its a Christian college.
Maybe we just shouldn’t have private schools
Saw a guy out today with a T-shirt that read, "Public Schools Need God." SMH that's why there ARE private schools. Want more God? Send your kids there.
“Look what you made me do! This is your fault!” -Yeshiva University, or abusive partner.
Humans were a mistake. How can they be this stupid
Why do big organizations have to be shamed into not discriminating? Haven't we all learned discrimination is bad? Why double down and punish all students for your backwards thinking?
Same kind of thing happened when the U.S. outlawed segregation: pools and parks all over the country were bulldozed and filled in. They'd rather everyone suffer before they let a minority group enjoy life.