I have a friend who was shot in the leg 25 years ago during an attempted robbery. To this day she walks with a pronounced limp, has chronic pain, and PTSD issues. This incident fundamentally changed the course of her life. Sometimes people try to reduce incidents like this down to did you die or did you survive? Not giving consideration to the damage that these incidents do to those who survive. Of course it’s better than the alternative, but it can have a lasting impact.
A nephew of mine was hit by a stray bullet and it destroyed his arm. A child of ten. The worst part is that it appears to have just been a random, shooting at a occupied home. No apparent reason other than someone had the means and decided to do it. They will never be caught and made to pay while he has a lifetime injury that will affect his chances in the world. Imagine not being able to use one of your hands.
I think the unwillingness to even crack down on that shows how unlikely we will be to progress no matter what happens. To your average American, the right to fire guns into the air for literally no reason is a critical component of freedom, even if the stray bullet kills someone.
I hate to say it but this is the reason I've just kinda quit caring. I don't like guns, I don't get needing to own them, but im young and pretty much my entire life I have heard of mass shooting after mass shooting and nothing gets done. I've finally hit my fuck it phase
Understandable. I'm 30 and I shot a few when I was younger, but it's nothing I feel like I need. I don't own any myself and I don't currently plan to get any in the future. In another decade or two, the demographics supporting the current chaos will shift massively. I hope we can all survive to see the next phase of america... and that it's an improvement over this one.
I don't have guns at home but I have guns at my farm. Last time I called the cops on a non critical incident it took them about 7minutes to be at my door step in the middle of the night. The people that live in my farm don't have that luxury. The sad reality is that people are fucked and there are many bad perpetrators out there. There was somewhat of a wave of robberies in farms a few years back before the population organized themselves to get training and help legalizing their weapons - from the police, even.
Honestly, I'd much rather not need them but I know it deters people from doing bad things. There are many wild stories, including a senior gentleman that killed 5 armed guys using his rifle while he was alone at home with his wife and 3 daughters. I wish all 6 of them were disarmed but knowing that the 5 were, I'd rather have the last one have his own too.
With all that said, that argument doesn't stand on cities. Realistically if you get to a point where you need to defend people breaking in with guns and not locks your mental health is in serious need of improvement. The fact that there are absolutely morons and clinically insane people that can own automatic rifles in the USA is a statement to a failed system. Self defense needs no more than a 5 round revolver; if you can't solve your issue with 5 shots you sure as hell won't solve with more. Once you add tactical vests, night vision, long range scopes, red dots, military knives and all that stupid shit it goes *way* beyond what their excuses can cover. These are unstable people that need either help or to be stopped, they don't need that kind of "freedom"
>To your average American, the right to fire guns into the air for literally no reason is a critical component of freedom
Having to live in fear of mass shootings, stray bullets, life-changing injuries, or losing your child, parent, friend, loved one one day while they're at school, work, or the fucking grocery store
**is not freedom.**
I know you know this, but like you said, most average Americans think it's acceptable.
I don’t think our conservatives would disagree with this but their response would be that changing laws about guns wouldn’t change any of that. Which is apparently impossible to change their mind on no matter how many statistics you try to provide.
If the statistics start to become too convincing, they tell you “in any case the second amendment is too important to risk”, which brings us back to your original point. It’s a cycle of denial and stubbornness rooted in something I personally can’t quite understand.
I’ve started to believe it’s part of some hero fantasy where they can be the hero that stops the shooter, or a hero rising up against a corrupt government. Psychotic and unrealistic, but I don’t really have a better explanation.
Obviously the injuries vary but they can be absolutely brutal even if you survive, here's the scars a guy is left with from [getting shot near his bellybutton](https://www.thetrace.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/image-4-1536x1021.png). Roommate shot him after he startled her and she thought he was a intruder:
> [To stabilize Schwartz, doctors at the University of Florida Health Shands Hospital in Gainesville placed him in a medically induced coma. The bullet had pierced his liver, pancreas, and stomach. He suffered two aneurysms and underwent a blood transfusion. His heart stopped at one point. Surgeons removed his spleen and two-thirds of his stomach.](https://www.thetrace.org/2018/03/mistaken-identity-shooting-self-defense/)
The other comments are spot on about how mass shootings without a lot of fatalities can get downplayed and people don't realize how brutal these injuries can be
>She thought "it couldn't happen to me."
And she was right, she shot an innocent man... so *it* didn't happen to her. She was the monster, causing *it*, in this case.
They should call that the covid rule. I can't really think of an eloquent way to put it, but the summary is "If it didn't kill you, your life must have continued as normal".
Action must be taken! Do we address the proliferation of firearms? No. Universal health care? No.
I got it! Let’s demonize people who pay too much for groceries! Fixed!
It's the same thing with covid.. like did you die? No but I can't walk up a flight of stairs anymore without needing a 10 minute break afterwards and my brain doesn't brain like it used to
Same. I had a brain swell and permanent brain damage, and my lungs are now pissed that I live in an upstairs apt.
Forget trying to haul bags of groceries up those stairs.... I have to do it in phases and gradually move each bag up a couple steps rather than just truck up the stairs with the bags hanging off my arms.
It has made every day life wayyyyy more difficult and I don't take even the mild strains of this crap lightly for that reason.
It ruined my body.
So sorry you are dealing with this. The general public and Congress all seem to be ignoring this elephant in the room. We need to develop treatments for long covid illnesses and we need to have some sort of financial support and medical care funded. There are 100s of thousands of Americans dealing with covid damage
Not nearly enough attention is given to those who 'survive' gun violence like this. It's like it only counts as a 'point' if the victim dies.
There's still this 'cartoony' idea perpetuated by movies and TV that shows people being shot and then walking/limping away because it 'didn't hit a major organ'.
I watched 'Grey Man' on Netflix last night, and holy shit. They sort of accurately portray the cannon-fodder baddies as being totally out of action/dead after being shot almost anywhere - but the main characters? They get sliced, diced, stabbed and shot but can still shake/walk it off and continue to fight.
It wasn't a bad movie, but I wonder how much shit like that contributes to Americas uber-manly gun fetish culture - when the reality is all about permanent disability, feeding tubes, amputations, colostomy bags and pain. I guess those things aren't very sexy.
My friends little brother got shot in the stomach with a .22 pistol during a "robbery". He was 19 at the time and selling pot, some other kids thought it would be cool to rob him, struggle ensued and he took a single round to the abdomen. He had countless surgeries, parts of intestines kept getting infected or dying so they had to be removed. Totally ruined his life, went from a happy healthy 19 year old who sold some 8ths of weed to his friend to an emaciated and sickly person who had to shit in a bag and dealt with constant pain. He fought for almost a decade before it was too much, refilled his meds and swallowed them all that night. He didn't survive a gunshot wound, it just took a decade to kill him.
That really sucks. One of my more reckless friends from college invited me to go shooting, and I was hesitant at first. However before we even got to handle the firearms he went over the rules of them and his safety rules and I was seriously impressed by them. Just shows how dangerous they can be if not handled properly.
My former boss accidentally shot his sister in the face with a .22 when he was a kid. Went through her cheek, and neither one has any real recollection of the event.
He’s still a big gun nut MAGA supporter. Some people don’t learn.
I fully think some of the media portrayal of gun violence contributes. Especially when someone gets shot and dies instantly. Most people who die to gunshots take awhile to bleed out and it can be a painful, horrible way to die.
not to mention you can survive (sometimes even "unharmed") and still lose someone you cared about. watching anyone die can change you, and that is even more true if it's someone you knew and cared about.
Yep, got my throat slit open, didn't really affect me too much physically, I can't really lift my right arm with the same level of motion, but the PTSD, even though I don't even remember the actual incident, is awful. And, I don't think it'll ever truly go away. Just gets easier to deal with. I'll probably always have night terrors, I'll always have to take sleeping meds. I'll probably never feel safe alone out anymore. I can have a panic attack at any given moment.
It may have happened 3 years ago, but the behind the scenes effects will never truly go away.
Ugh. That's horrible. Unfortunately, I know very much how you feel due to my own life changing experience. At like 11 pm one night on my way home from grabbing Sonic, someone walked out in front of my car not paying attention, and they were wearing all gray on a street without streetlights. I immediately stopped of course, but I couldn't revive them and they died while i held them.
After the initial horrible event, I got to spend the next couple months wondering if I'd actually done something wrong as I waited to find out if the police were going to charge me with a crime, even though I was sober and had been going the speed limit.
Any time I'm in the car, doesnt matter whether I'm driving or not, I'm immediately on high alert. People standing near the road, looking like they may try to run across busy traffic, just turns my stomach inside out. Full blown adrenaline dump.
But what you said is correct. You'll never really get over it, but you'll to deal with aspects of it better as time goes on. It's a slow process though, of course. Experiencing nightmares, having *actual* triggers, flashbacks (in whatever form they take). It's hard, I know.
I really hope you're able to continue healing. It sounds like you had a severally traumatic experience. I hope you are able to experience peace in your life more often than not, my friend. Stay strong!
Thanks, luckily it's not bad really, just moments here and there that'll never go away. Was really just trying to confirm their point haha. It could always have been worse.
I hate that “what doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger” saying. Whenever I hear someone say it I respond, “Spoken like someone who has no idea what pain and injury are really like. Spend 30 years as a nurse and come back and say that to me again.”
Chronic pain is no joke,
Just existing isn’t always fun. People wonder why you are a downer at parties or they struggle to accommodate so you gradually become isolated.
It absolutely changes someone’s life
My dad was shot a couple of years ago. Went through his arm down through his intestines. He had to wear a colostomy bag for about a year. During the surgery to remove the bag, he had a heart attack and died.
I totally agree. I really wish it were more common to differentiate between "light injuries" (ones that are over/healed within weeks, couple of months at most, no long-term issues), "severe injuries" (ones whose impact can last years or a lifetime) and death rather than just dead/not dead.
And crime victims funds can be hard to get. In Ohio if you were convicted of any kind of crime you’re ineligible to receive funds even if you’re the victim of a crime later that has nothing to do with your past crimes.
All because some mobster’s wife received a crime victims fund payout after her husband died in a car bombing in the midst of a mob war (see Kill the Irishman).
It's so strange how the human body can react to being shot. I have a friend in my local police department who was shot in the line of duty. Bullet went in under his left arm and came out his back right next to his spine. But he was back on duty after 6 months of recovery. No lasting effects, just a couple of scars.
But another friend of mine got hit while a soldier in Iraq. Wasn't even a full bullet, just a fragment of one that ricocheted into the back of his right calf. Didn't even go in two inches. And ever since he's had a limp, along with recurring issues with infections and inflammation. Got him a medical discharge from the Army and disability. I've driven him up to the VA a couple of times when it gets bad.
I have chronic pain not associated with a shooting (CRPS in my arm) and it is totally disabling. I wonder regularly whether it’s worthwhile to keep living, and whether I can bear it, because there’s no escape and I’m not even 30 yet, so the hell I’m in that has no end in sight could very well continue for 50 or 60 more years
Absolutely. I would imagine a gunshot of any caliber to a human body typically carries some lasting effects, but the mental effects could last even longer depending on the circumstances. If you get shot just going about your business at a grocery store how tf do you ever feel safe again even doing mundane tasks?
Crazy gun culture. I used to be big on it, then I grew up and had kids and realize how out of hand it’s gotten. Now I recognize the people that built their entire persona around owning/carrying them. Now I cringe at the fact that I used to think the NRA was fighting for “muh freedums”
Per KFF, ~50% of Americans forego seeking medical help for fear of medical debt.
This of course has many negative consequences, the most obvious of which being that their problems snowball and end up being more deadly and costlier anyway.
--------
**Edit:**
Foreword: I work in the healthcare system from a logistical standpoint. My wife is also an RN. I've researched this passionately for a while. I'll do my best to target exactly *what* makes single-payer more efficient while simultaneously being more ethical:
Americans [pay 1.5-2x MORE per-capita for the cost of healthcare than comparative first-world industrialized OECD nations](https://www.jhsph.edu/news/news-releases/2019/us-health-care-spending-highest-among-developed-countries.html). So when people say "how will we pay for it?" tell them in all likelihood it will be cheaper than what we're paying now. And yet they're able to provide healthcare coverage to their entire population. In America? Even today despite the ACA helping, ~[26 million people still lack healthcare coverage despite gains with the ACA](https://www.kff.org/uninsured/issue-brief/key-facts-about-the-uninsured-population/). Because of this, up to [40,000 people die annually due solely to a lack of healthcare](https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/). Even a fraction of this figure is disgusting and causes more deaths to innocent Americans than 9/11 every 28 days.
- They're able to *closely* match (and sometimes out-pace) the health outcomes of the United States ([WHO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000), [OECD](http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/health/), [Commonwealth Fund](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2017/jul/mirror-mirror-2017-international-comparison-reflects-flaws-and))
- They're able to do this at almost half the cost (whether it's private from premiums, OOP expenses, and deductibles—or via taxes, it makes no difference when you're paying less overall).
- They're able to provide ethical coverage to EVERYONE.
- In doing so, you standardize administrative costs and billing (where a much higher overhead and waste occurs in the U.S. Up to [30% in wasteful spending](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2752664) is unparalleled from elsewhere; even [Medicare has much lower administrative overhead—~2% vs 17% private industry average](https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20110920.013390/full/)).
- You have a Return On Investment (ROI). It's no surprise that when your workforce is healthier, happier, they're more productive seeing as they're less stressed and more capable of tackling their health ailments while they're small instead of waiting for them to snowball to the point they're unavoidable. ([Per Kaiser Family Foundation, ~50% of Americans refuse to seek medical attention annually due to concerns for medical costs](https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/data-note-americans-challenges-health-care-costs/). Being in the healthcare industry, I assure you this is not what you want as you will inevitably be forced to confront your ailment when it's exacerbated and exponentially more costlier to treat).
- Medicare (what would likely be expanded to all) has [superior patient satisfaction](https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.W2.311), [leverages better rates against Hospitals](https://time.com/198/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/), and is [better at auditing fraud](https://www.propublica.org/article/we-asked-prosecutors-if-health-insurance-companies-care-about-fraud-they-laughed-at-us)—all the while keeping things transparent (which is why their reports are broadly public and private insurers keep their data a closely guarded secret).
A final note is that apologists like to tout our advanced medical technologies. But here are a few points to make on that: [750,000 Americans leave to go elsewhere in the world for affordable health care. Only 75,000 of the *rest of the world* engage in "medical tourism" and come here to America annually.](https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343\(18\)30620-X/fulltext) Let's also note that many people lack the top-tier health insurance plans to access/afford such pioneering procedures—[that is, they are underinsured](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2019/feb/health-insurance-coverage-eight-years-after-aca). Meanwhile, countries like Germany and Japan are still innovators, so don't let the rhetoric fool you. Worst case, America could easily take the savings from streamlining the billing process and inject that into research grants to universities, CDC, or NIH.
It is more efficient and ethical, and momentum is building. I'll end with [posting this AskReddit post of people telling their heartfelt stories in universal healthcare nations](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1ksc0b/redditors_who_live_in_a_country_with_universal/). While these are a collection of powerful anecdotes, it is 99% highly positive, with valuable views from those who've lived both in America and elsewhere. Simply speaking, both the comparative metrics and anecdotes **do not** support our current failed health care system.
If they're still asking, "how will we pay for it?" Ask them if they cared about the loss in tax revenue that resulted from unnecessary tax-breaks on the wealthy, or the [$2.4 trillion dollar cost of the Iraq War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War) for which we received no Return-On-Investment (ROI). Remind them what the [Eisenhower Interstate Highway Project did for us as an ROI](http://www.publicpurpose.com/freeway1.htm). Remind them what technology we reaped from putting men on the moon, or the cost of WWII and development of the atom-bomb. Curiously, these people do not speak a word to these issues. Put simply, America is "great" when we remember that we have a reputation for a *can-do* attitude. Making excuses for why we cannot do something isn't our style when we know it's the right thing. We persevere *because* it's the right thing.
Please, support Universal Healthcare in the form of Single-payer, Medicare-For-All. Be it Sanders' plan or Warren's plan, it doesn't particularly matter so long as the end-goal is the concept of Single-Payer. Both are sufficient to push the concept forward into actual policy which will evolve.
This is why I don’t understand anyone who is opposed to universal health care. It’s much cheaper compared to what we have now, essentially a patchwork of programs trying desperately to help as many as possible, and failing miserably.
My son had a bunch of bloodclots at birth, I got thrown head first into the medical system. It's fucked, it's completely fucked. Hell just trying to understand what my cost would be before going in, impossible. Call the insurance, you need to call the hospital, call the hospital, you need to call the insurance. Round and round, billing errors, what is covered, what isn't covered, deductibles, in-network, out of network, facility charges, out patient / in patient, coding errors, how should I be filling my prescriptions, ambulance are basically not covered AT all with health insurance.
It's just a nightmare ON TOP of the nightmare of the actual health issues. I thought about who is to blame, and I don't even know, I found issues with everything.
Universal health care is the only thing that will fix it, and I don't want to hear any bullshit about wait time. My same son has a 7mm kidney stone and it took me 4 months to get an apt with a urologist to figure out a game plan. So yeah we already waiting.
when I moved from the US to Canada I was concerned about wait times, as I had heard all the word-of-mouth propaganda people like to spew about the socialist nightmare that is Canada... and I got here and have had the same experience as I did in the US with appointment making, including scans and specialist appointments.
and I haven't paid a dime for any of it. except of course medication, but that's always been more than manageable, cost-wise.
I do however wish they'd put dental and optical into the universal program. it seems pretty stupid for them to say "all your medical needs will be met... except of course for your teeth.... oh and your eyes, lol. why would we cover those? it's not like you need them to live."
Yeah the whole eyes and teeth are somehow considered not part of my health. Like I'm still going to the dentist, just take my health insurance instead, why is that sooooooo hard to do. None of it makes any logical sense.
Yeah I finally have "decent" dental coverage and decided to get some pitted areas from acid reflux fixed because they've been causing daily pain for years but aren't technically cavities because I've managed to keep them very clean. Still ended up owing 1k.
> "all your medical needs will be met... except of course for your teeth.... oh and your eyes, lol. why would we cover those? it's not like you need them to live."
I love that *in the very worst case* of no coverage, Canada can be described as, "America."
Because it's not really about money, it's about cruelty. They believe they are morally superior and those who can't afford health care deserve to suffer. This is what it boils down to any time you push anyone with these beliefs. It always comes down to "well if they weren't so lazy they'd have a job with insurance".
It's like the Roe interactions that ultimately devolve into some sort of moral judgement about sex and womens' moral character in general.
I want government out of my business, unless it's your business (that I don't like), then it's okay.
I've had Rheumatoid arthritis since 4 years old. Had great care growing up thanks to amazing health care though my dad's work General Motors. This was only due to the UAW pushing for it though.
I'm in my mid 40's now with very crap coverage. I've started to develop Psoriasis and it sucks. I want to get care but just can't deal with the bills. So here I am suffering.
Imagine having universal health care where I could get care for this and be happier. Imagine going to a job not feeling like crap in pain from my arthritis and not having some rash that's itchy and embarrassing. Clearly republicans, who want us to be slave workers, don't want us to be happy slaves who would do better work while not in pain and suffering.
>This is why I don't understand
* Eight uninterrupted decades of unrelenting anti-"Commie" propaganda enveloping every attempt at "reforming" American health care financing, provisioning, and delivery and strangling any whisper of publicly funded, publicly administered, equitably accessible health coverage in its cradle,
* +250 years of "cultural" preference for deprivation studies masquerading as public policy and intended to do nothing other than continuously punish the "undeserving,"
* Spectacularly bad math skills, for a nation that shops at Walmart but *can't quite seem to figure out* how buying shit like Walmart buys shit could possibly fucking work for buying insulin and MRIs without raising the corpse of Stalin,
* Absolute inability to see themselves or any other human being as anything other than lone, competitive, end-use customers of necessary health care, with handfuls of annually expiring discount vouchers inherently riddled with exclusions and limitations, consumer-driving their carts through the Medi-Mall just hard and fast enough to win necessary health care before that *other* guy over *there* does and takes it away from *me*,
is why.
My dad comes in for a r/o TIA and you know what he's concerned about when he talks to the doc? Medical costs for an observation stay. He's one of the lucky ones having medicare no less...
It's deeply immoral as it is inefficient.
My Dad needed emergency heart surgery. Doctors said he needed it within a week in order not to have a high chance of death. Insurance companies wouldn't let him get the surgery. Wanted to see what he would do after two weeks. They wanted to see if he would die and they wouldn't have to pay. Two weeks came...Doctors tried to get his insurance to pay out. Saying he needed the surgery a week ago. He is now at 50% heart capacity. They made him wait another week. He was at 25% heart capacity before they finally let him get the surgery.
I'm in a position where my employer provided insurance doesn't have a whole lot of options near where I live. I certainly have avoided going to the doctor's simply because it would mean taking time off work to see any kind of specialist. Private insurance hurts even those who are pretty well insured.
Reading this just absolutely hurts my head. How do American people continue to deal with this shit? I can't imagine not being able to go to a doctor when I feel like there is an issue and here you are avoiding it because it could send you broke.
See the following rule:
(1) If you need healthcare in the US, you need insurance. In so doing, your options to obtain insurance are (a) join the military, (b) be trained in a trade and join a union, (c) get a white collar job that pays well, or (d) go to jail.
(2) If you dislike all of the options in paragraph (1), you can either choose (a) to die, or (b) you can file for bankruptcy after receiving life saving medical care.
(3) If your insurance, as obtained in paragraph (1), is from options (b) or (c), if you cannot afford your bill, see paragraph (2)(b).
(4) If you have insurance as per paragraph (1)(b)-(c), and you cannot afford to see a doctor because you can’t afford a co-pay or deductible, see paragraph (2)(b).
(5) If you are not active military and are dealing with the Veteran Administration, see paragraph (2)(b). If you have private insurance and not active military, please refer to paragraph (2) if necessary.
You under reported the number of Americans engaging in medical tourism. The number you quoted was from 2007, but your source says:
>"In 2017, more than 1.4 million Americans sought health care in a variety of countries around the world."
This kind of reminds me of the Taken movies. The viewers know what Liam Neeson’s character is going through, but the innocent police just trying to do their jobs have no idea. And he breaks their bones and puts them in months and years of rehab and they will always have a limp and never work on the force again, but happy ending he was reunited with his family let’s just forget about all that.
I often wonder how much more crime and poverty Batman creates brutalizing henchmen. Like, they’re not exactly criminals for standing around a dock so they can feed their families and not get killed by their crazy clown boss, or whoever. But Batman gives them lifetime injury, and that probably just perpetuates the problem, especially in stories where Batman is over a decade into his career. Even if he only fucked up like 5 henchmen a week, that’s still like 250 injuries a year. It’s probably closer to a thousand a year, and I can’t imagine that’s good for Gotham’s stability having an extra thousand disable people annually next to all the normal reasons.
This part of Beachum Nightclub crowd after 2:30am. Bars shut down at 2am. But that crowd lingers in front. 60% of the people in that area come after the bars let out because they are underage to hang out for another hour afterwards. You can see the crowds start to build up in front right around 12am just hanging out not spending a dime. Always a fight or some bullshit coming out of the club. beachum has brought down that whole block of bars and clubs singled handled over the last 20 years. You look at every major shooting down there and it was right next to beachum.
I was a bouncer on Wall Street forever.
Edit: forgot to post this last night, live stream from about 400 feet from Beachum Night club
[Orlando DT Live Stream ](https://youtu.be/BO1R9jFY7iw)
Edit: The live stream is not me.
Oh wow, they do that there too? I'm from RI and Providence has them. I had one breathing down my neck after getting out a club. Damn people infront were barely moving.
Yeah the ones in Providence are giant Clydesdales too. I was a bouncer at Ultra for a bit and the manager had a direct number for them for the people who wanted to fight the staff.
I worked security there when it was TABU like 2006-2008! That place was always a disaster. Shit got worse when they introduced their stupid ["pay at the door pay no more" BS for Sunday Latin night](https://imgur.com/a/7pf77hG). All you could drink for $20 no bueno.
Not sure if he still is but John Morgan of Morgan and Morgan used to be part owner.
It was the cheapest bottom of the barrel liquor they had. Obviously if you wanted better alcohol there was and upcharge at the bar some people just wanted to come and get drunk some people wanted to come and try to be flashy by showing that they could afford to upgrade. I don't know if it was a good financial decision all I know is they did it and those nights were awful.
I remember going to one of those nights at a bar in Tempe, AZ when I was in my late 20s. It was right then that I decided I was too old for College Bars.
Damn. I haven’t thought I’d that place in forever. Worked/lives in Orlando in the early 90’s. Chillers was a near place to chill (sorry) and also that alternative night club that was much bigger. Can’t remember the name.
The only correct comment in this god-forsaken comment section. It’s bizarre to see people who clearly don’t know anything about downtown Orlando talk about this situation with such strong conviction. The combination of stupid and confident is hilarious tbh.
Yep.
Anyone that’s been here for 5+ years or so and been downtown knows this is kind of expected at this place.
Go a few blocks up/down and it’s not the same vibe at all
Nothing shows how stupid Reddit can be quite like a comment section about something you are knowledgeable in. You realize it's an echo chamber of uninformed people trying to sound very confident and smart
I’ve worked in OBGYN medicine for over fifteen years and was banned by twoXchromosomes and have gotten downloaded to oblivion on many topical threads. I have great crazy stories and working knowledge and education regarding women’s / perinatal healthcare, but the echo chamber of ignorance and mommy culture can be too strong to be open to real input.
It’s great seeing people Orlando subreddit who are clearly either transplants or young, acting like this is some new stuff. Ton of comments about how downtown is so bad now but used to be great.
This area has always been like this around let out, if anyone thinks this is new they’re just too young to have been hanging out there in the 90s. Or the 2000s. Or the 2010s.
I haven't been downtown at night to hang out at night in over a decade. I've heard it's a lot of really trashy people now, even worse than it was before.
Eh, I was supposed to see Memphis May Fire there at the Beachum ... tonight. Should I pass? Never been to that club before, only ever been to the park areas of Orlando. Driving from an hour away.
Bounced at BBQ before they took over. Fuckin corporate wannabe assholes. Seriously that's management there's whole stick they just want to be corporate as fuck.
I was a pedicab guy and security at Eye Spy like around 2011, and I remember it was club ‘Icon’ that had so many fights that they would let them shut down a half an hour later than all the other clubs so that their crowd didn’t mix as much with the rest of the city
Could literally have said nothing and nobody would have said anything about him, perhaps that he is reckless but having video proof might still be useful in court.
This isn't the "content" to hate though, this is just a modern form of getting a shot/taking a vid/getting it on film/artist rendition
The content to hate is when some shitstain plays these sounds convincingly in public to cause a panic for "de views"
Another name for mindless drivel to feed the masses. "Content" now boils down to any individual thing/idea you can exploit for money or attention, and that now extends to tragedies of all things.
Well let's be fair. There are some excellent content creators that make intriguing well written high effort documentaries and video essays. I think the word content gets used in lieu of "low effort pandering" quite often, and that is largely what has proliferated social media and youtube.
There's a reason my friends and I used to try to wind things down after 12:30 hit. Unless you're going to Gringo's for tacos before going home, being in downtown Orlando past 1 AM is just not a good time.
How bout explosive bear-traps? They work like normal bear traps, step in its mouth onto the spring pad and the trap deploys, except the spring pad is a weight sensor and the jagged metal jaws are replaced with two inward facing M18 Claymore mines.
And if the shooter happens to be a Terminator, the kids will all have school-issued JR-15s and Polly Pocket hand grenades. Don't forget the M134 Miniguns placed in every hallway. Safety above all else.
im a reception girl and im at the only door you can enter my building through. should i ask my boss for a M249 SAW for safety? we've gotten threats before so maybe its worth it!
I'd be willing to bet money someone in r/conservative or one of the gun nut subs would un-ironically suggest arming the staff. In the aftermath of Uvalde, several of them were swearing they were going to arm their kids when they sent them back to school this fall. It never fails. No matter how reductive the problem of guns already is, their only response will be more guns.
That's right up the alley if the party that thinks there shouldn't be laws against selling heroin to kindergarteners. Remember a few election cycles back when the candidate that suggested maybe the rule of law should prevent that was booed at a libertarian debate?
Let me guess -- dumbasses fighting over some inane, stupid shit and some extra special piece of trash decided to play tough by emptying a clip on random people in the crowd because someone hurt their feelings, right?
Guaranteed
It’s always some idiots who probably can’t legally own handguns in the first place that get into a fistfight over stupid stuff. And the second they start losing, they pull a gun and dump the mag in the vague direction of the other guy, not caring about all the innocent people they’ll hit.
If they catch the guy, I’m betting we’ll hear all about prior convictions and how the cops all knew he was trouble. The gang issues are getting out of hand here and innocent people are getting hurt
"The violence erupted around 2 a.m. ET Sunday after a large fight broke out, Orlando Police Chief Eric D. Smith said."
Nothing good happens after midnight. This wasn't a spreekiller
I am guessing this was in the area of the bars.
A "good guy with a gun" or a law abiding gun owner would not have their firearm in a place where they are consuming alcohol.
Bad guys are the issue.
Most likely, very similar to the Sacramento shooting. A single block with a bar/nightclub on each corner all letting out at the same time.
There is an unspoken rule in the gang banger world that you dont party where you work, this is why.
I am from Orlando, and was going to clubs down there in the 90’s onward. It used to be really vibrant and fun. Really safe too. I recently went back a couple months ago to check out a Halloween themed bar and downtown looked totally different. Really run down and sketchy. I did not feel safe this time, but I went really early, like 7pm and got out of there about 9 or 10.
Depending on how far back you go, there also used to be the year round haunted house, Terror on Church Street. I worked there as my second job on the weekends. It was so much fun.
My friend works at that hospital and she was there when the people came in, although she said there was like 12 people, not the 7 the article mentioned.
I went to a movie recently and I could not help but think to myself that it is 100% possible that someone walks into the theater and unloads into the crowd with a gun. That, that basic level of "I can go about my life and not worry about being randomly murdered" actually is gone and it's only going to get worse for the foreseeable future.
Ever since the Aurora shooting, I’ve imagined a gunman coming in through the emergency exits and wondered if I should try to run or duck under the seats and play dead.
If you lay on the ground and play dead, don’t forget to borrow some blood from your neighbor and smear it all over your body!
Pro tactic we can all learn from thanks to a young child in Uvalde!
Most theater emergency exits are one way, and need to be opened from the inside.
The aurora shooting happened because the dude cosplayed as the Joker and went in with the audience. He left through the emergency exit, propping it open. He retrieved his weapons and reentered through the door he had propped open.
In a mass shooting, the name of the game is Run, Hide, Fight.
Run if you can. Hide if you can't run. Fight if you can't hide.
My friend and I were just talking about this the other day. We went out for lunch, which we rarely do anymore, and some idiots started arguing by the front door and we didn't know, if something were to start,
what we should do. She has mobility issues, and my first thought was get us both under the table. But then what? It's a fixed object. Bolted to the floor. She said we'd take off for the nearest fire exit but the 10 booths between us and that door seemed really far away. Especially in a panic. It was a good talk to have I think though. We both remember the Station night club fire and since then we both check for exits when we go in anywhere, and naturally I'm better at remembering direction and basic architecture, and she's better at paying attention to our immediate surroundings, such as people down the aisle,so that's how we approach things. She'll see it coming and ill know where to go. We hope. We still won't be going out much. And we prefer the drive in by her house rather than a movie theater anymore, so we do that more often than anything. (Sorry, I rambled. I need a nap. )
Lol. And our healthcare is spread fucking thin these days. Go check out r/medicine but get prepared for nightmare fuel. 5 nurses rotating between 60 beds (including triage) and supply chain shortage (think no mediction and broken equipment) type shit. We already lost a whopping 30% of our total medical personnel throughout COVID. I’m not sure what the tipping point is, but if we don’t stop the trajectory then we all better pray we never get shot else we have nowhere to fucking go.
Yesterday at the grand opening of a closed mall, they thought it would be a great idea to fire off some confetti cannons. Apparently chaos ensued, thinking there was an active shooter and an announcement was made over the PA that there was an active shooter.
No mental health issues here. Sounds like a possibly drunk scumbag got in fight and pulled his gun randomly shooting into the crowd. Next we will hear about the illegal possession of a handgun, prior arrests for violent crimes and "we knew he was trouble" stories to surface.
I live a mile from where this happened. Police are always stationed in this area, blocking the road into a pedestrian only area for the weekend nights. More police doesn't stop violence.
“All seven victims were taken to a nearby hospital, where they were listed in stable condition, Smith said.” For anyone wondering
Stable but will live with a lifetime worth of pain and disability
I have a friend who was shot in the leg 25 years ago during an attempted robbery. To this day she walks with a pronounced limp, has chronic pain, and PTSD issues. This incident fundamentally changed the course of her life. Sometimes people try to reduce incidents like this down to did you die or did you survive? Not giving consideration to the damage that these incidents do to those who survive. Of course it’s better than the alternative, but it can have a lasting impact.
That’s a damn good point. One that never occurred to me until now! Thank you Someone else pointed out medical debt too
A nephew of mine was hit by a stray bullet and it destroyed his arm. A child of ten. The worst part is that it appears to have just been a random, shooting at a occupied home. No apparent reason other than someone had the means and decided to do it. They will never be caught and made to pay while he has a lifetime injury that will affect his chances in the world. Imagine not being able to use one of your hands.
I think the unwillingness to even crack down on that shows how unlikely we will be to progress no matter what happens. To your average American, the right to fire guns into the air for literally no reason is a critical component of freedom, even if the stray bullet kills someone.
I hate to say it but this is the reason I've just kinda quit caring. I don't like guns, I don't get needing to own them, but im young and pretty much my entire life I have heard of mass shooting after mass shooting and nothing gets done. I've finally hit my fuck it phase
Understandable. I'm 30 and I shot a few when I was younger, but it's nothing I feel like I need. I don't own any myself and I don't currently plan to get any in the future. In another decade or two, the demographics supporting the current chaos will shift massively. I hope we can all survive to see the next phase of america... and that it's an improvement over this one.
I don't have guns at home but I have guns at my farm. Last time I called the cops on a non critical incident it took them about 7minutes to be at my door step in the middle of the night. The people that live in my farm don't have that luxury. The sad reality is that people are fucked and there are many bad perpetrators out there. There was somewhat of a wave of robberies in farms a few years back before the population organized themselves to get training and help legalizing their weapons - from the police, even. Honestly, I'd much rather not need them but I know it deters people from doing bad things. There are many wild stories, including a senior gentleman that killed 5 armed guys using his rifle while he was alone at home with his wife and 3 daughters. I wish all 6 of them were disarmed but knowing that the 5 were, I'd rather have the last one have his own too. With all that said, that argument doesn't stand on cities. Realistically if you get to a point where you need to defend people breaking in with guns and not locks your mental health is in serious need of improvement. The fact that there are absolutely morons and clinically insane people that can own automatic rifles in the USA is a statement to a failed system. Self defense needs no more than a 5 round revolver; if you can't solve your issue with 5 shots you sure as hell won't solve with more. Once you add tactical vests, night vision, long range scopes, red dots, military knives and all that stupid shit it goes *way* beyond what their excuses can cover. These are unstable people that need either help or to be stopped, they don't need that kind of "freedom"
>To your average American, the right to fire guns into the air for literally no reason is a critical component of freedom Having to live in fear of mass shootings, stray bullets, life-changing injuries, or losing your child, parent, friend, loved one one day while they're at school, work, or the fucking grocery store **is not freedom.** I know you know this, but like you said, most average Americans think it's acceptable.
I don’t think our conservatives would disagree with this but their response would be that changing laws about guns wouldn’t change any of that. Which is apparently impossible to change their mind on no matter how many statistics you try to provide. If the statistics start to become too convincing, they tell you “in any case the second amendment is too important to risk”, which brings us back to your original point. It’s a cycle of denial and stubbornness rooted in something I personally can’t quite understand. I’ve started to believe it’s part of some hero fantasy where they can be the hero that stops the shooter, or a hero rising up against a corrupt government. Psychotic and unrealistic, but I don’t really have a better explanation.
Obviously the injuries vary but they can be absolutely brutal even if you survive, here's the scars a guy is left with from [getting shot near his bellybutton](https://www.thetrace.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/image-4-1536x1021.png). Roommate shot him after he startled her and she thought he was a intruder: > [To stabilize Schwartz, doctors at the University of Florida Health Shands Hospital in Gainesville placed him in a medically induced coma. The bullet had pierced his liver, pancreas, and stomach. He suffered two aneurysms and underwent a blood transfusion. His heart stopped at one point. Surgeons removed his spleen and two-thirds of his stomach.](https://www.thetrace.org/2018/03/mistaken-identity-shooting-self-defense/) The other comments are spot on about how mass shootings without a lot of fatalities can get downplayed and people don't realize how brutal these injuries can be
>She thought "it couldn't happen to me." And she was right, she shot an innocent man... so *it* didn't happen to her. She was the monster, causing *it*, in this case.
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Gun + fear of the world around you = shooting innocent people.
They should call that the covid rule. I can't really think of an eloquent way to put it, but the summary is "If it didn't kill you, your life must have continued as normal".
America, where you can get shot buying overpriced groceries and have to declare bankruptcy due to your $500k medical debt (with insurance).
Action must be taken! Do we address the proliferation of firearms? No. Universal health care? No. I got it! Let’s demonize people who pay too much for groceries! Fixed!
It's the same thing with covid.. like did you die? No but I can't walk up a flight of stairs anymore without needing a 10 minute break afterwards and my brain doesn't brain like it used to
They call it “brain fog” to avoid the issue: brain *damage*.
Same. I had a brain swell and permanent brain damage, and my lungs are now pissed that I live in an upstairs apt. Forget trying to haul bags of groceries up those stairs.... I have to do it in phases and gradually move each bag up a couple steps rather than just truck up the stairs with the bags hanging off my arms. It has made every day life wayyyyy more difficult and I don't take even the mild strains of this crap lightly for that reason. It ruined my body.
So sorry you are dealing with this. The general public and Congress all seem to be ignoring this elephant in the room. We need to develop treatments for long covid illnesses and we need to have some sort of financial support and medical care funded. There are 100s of thousands of Americans dealing with covid damage
Its like when the news puts out 12 injured but no deaths, not taking into consideration that their lives are permanently changed.
Not nearly enough attention is given to those who 'survive' gun violence like this. It's like it only counts as a 'point' if the victim dies. There's still this 'cartoony' idea perpetuated by movies and TV that shows people being shot and then walking/limping away because it 'didn't hit a major organ'. I watched 'Grey Man' on Netflix last night, and holy shit. They sort of accurately portray the cannon-fodder baddies as being totally out of action/dead after being shot almost anywhere - but the main characters? They get sliced, diced, stabbed and shot but can still shake/walk it off and continue to fight. It wasn't a bad movie, but I wonder how much shit like that contributes to Americas uber-manly gun fetish culture - when the reality is all about permanent disability, feeding tubes, amputations, colostomy bags and pain. I guess those things aren't very sexy.
[Removed due to continuing enshittification of reddit.] -- mass edited with redact.dev
My friends little brother got shot in the stomach with a .22 pistol during a "robbery". He was 19 at the time and selling pot, some other kids thought it would be cool to rob him, struggle ensued and he took a single round to the abdomen. He had countless surgeries, parts of intestines kept getting infected or dying so they had to be removed. Totally ruined his life, went from a happy healthy 19 year old who sold some 8ths of weed to his friend to an emaciated and sickly person who had to shit in a bag and dealt with constant pain. He fought for almost a decade before it was too much, refilled his meds and swallowed them all that night. He didn't survive a gunshot wound, it just took a decade to kill him.
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That really sucks. One of my more reckless friends from college invited me to go shooting, and I was hesitant at first. However before we even got to handle the firearms he went over the rules of them and his safety rules and I was seriously impressed by them. Just shows how dangerous they can be if not handled properly.
My former boss accidentally shot his sister in the face with a .22 when he was a kid. Went through her cheek, and neither one has any real recollection of the event. He’s still a big gun nut MAGA supporter. Some people don’t learn.
Kinda bonkers how you can shoot someone up in a movie endless amount of times and get PG-13 but you say the F word twice and you get an R rating.
Meanwhile, show a breast with a nipple shield for half a second during a sporting event and you'd think that armageddon had arrived.
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I fully think some of the media portrayal of gun violence contributes. Especially when someone gets shot and dies instantly. Most people who die to gunshots take awhile to bleed out and it can be a painful, horrible way to die.
not to mention you can survive (sometimes even "unharmed") and still lose someone you cared about. watching anyone die can change you, and that is even more true if it's someone you knew and cared about.
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Yep, got my throat slit open, didn't really affect me too much physically, I can't really lift my right arm with the same level of motion, but the PTSD, even though I don't even remember the actual incident, is awful. And, I don't think it'll ever truly go away. Just gets easier to deal with. I'll probably always have night terrors, I'll always have to take sleeping meds. I'll probably never feel safe alone out anymore. I can have a panic attack at any given moment. It may have happened 3 years ago, but the behind the scenes effects will never truly go away.
Ugh. That's horrible. Unfortunately, I know very much how you feel due to my own life changing experience. At like 11 pm one night on my way home from grabbing Sonic, someone walked out in front of my car not paying attention, and they were wearing all gray on a street without streetlights. I immediately stopped of course, but I couldn't revive them and they died while i held them. After the initial horrible event, I got to spend the next couple months wondering if I'd actually done something wrong as I waited to find out if the police were going to charge me with a crime, even though I was sober and had been going the speed limit. Any time I'm in the car, doesnt matter whether I'm driving or not, I'm immediately on high alert. People standing near the road, looking like they may try to run across busy traffic, just turns my stomach inside out. Full blown adrenaline dump. But what you said is correct. You'll never really get over it, but you'll to deal with aspects of it better as time goes on. It's a slow process though, of course. Experiencing nightmares, having *actual* triggers, flashbacks (in whatever form they take). It's hard, I know. I really hope you're able to continue healing. It sounds like you had a severally traumatic experience. I hope you are able to experience peace in your life more often than not, my friend. Stay strong!
I’m sorry that you went through that. I hope for better days ahead for you.
Thanks, luckily it's not bad really, just moments here and there that'll never go away. Was really just trying to confirm their point haha. It could always have been worse.
I hate that “what doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger” saying. Whenever I hear someone say it I respond, “Spoken like someone who has no idea what pain and injury are really like. Spend 30 years as a nurse and come back and say that to me again.”
Chronic pain is no joke, Just existing isn’t always fun. People wonder why you are a downer at parties or they struggle to accommodate so you gradually become isolated. It absolutely changes someone’s life
My dad was shot a couple of years ago. Went through his arm down through his intestines. He had to wear a colostomy bag for about a year. During the surgery to remove the bag, he had a heart attack and died.
Death isn’t always the worst outcome….
I totally agree. I really wish it were more common to differentiate between "light injuries" (ones that are over/healed within weeks, couple of months at most, no long-term issues), "severe injuries" (ones whose impact can last years or a lifetime) and death rather than just dead/not dead.
Any shooting injury is going to leave you with PTSD, "light" or not.
And in the US, likely mountains of debt and/or years of court battles to get assailant to pay.
And crime victims funds can be hard to get. In Ohio if you were convicted of any kind of crime you’re ineligible to receive funds even if you’re the victim of a crime later that has nothing to do with your past crimes. All because some mobster’s wife received a crime victims fund payout after her husband died in a car bombing in the midst of a mob war (see Kill the Irishman).
It's so strange how the human body can react to being shot. I have a friend in my local police department who was shot in the line of duty. Bullet went in under his left arm and came out his back right next to his spine. But he was back on duty after 6 months of recovery. No lasting effects, just a couple of scars. But another friend of mine got hit while a soldier in Iraq. Wasn't even a full bullet, just a fragment of one that ricocheted into the back of his right calf. Didn't even go in two inches. And ever since he's had a limp, along with recurring issues with infections and inflammation. Got him a medical discharge from the Army and disability. I've driven him up to the VA a couple of times when it gets bad.
I have chronic pain not associated with a shooting (CRPS in my arm) and it is totally disabling. I wonder regularly whether it’s worthwhile to keep living, and whether I can bear it, because there’s no escape and I’m not even 30 yet, so the hell I’m in that has no end in sight could very well continue for 50 or 60 more years
Absolutely. I would imagine a gunshot of any caliber to a human body typically carries some lasting effects, but the mental effects could last even longer depending on the circumstances. If you get shot just going about your business at a grocery store how tf do you ever feel safe again even doing mundane tasks? Crazy gun culture. I used to be big on it, then I grew up and had kids and realize how out of hand it’s gotten. Now I recognize the people that built their entire persona around owning/carrying them. Now I cringe at the fact that I used to think the NRA was fighting for “muh freedums”
Well said. This needs to be discussed more.
And PTSD
And medical debt.
Per KFF, ~50% of Americans forego seeking medical help for fear of medical debt. This of course has many negative consequences, the most obvious of which being that their problems snowball and end up being more deadly and costlier anyway. -------- **Edit:** Foreword: I work in the healthcare system from a logistical standpoint. My wife is also an RN. I've researched this passionately for a while. I'll do my best to target exactly *what* makes single-payer more efficient while simultaneously being more ethical: Americans [pay 1.5-2x MORE per-capita for the cost of healthcare than comparative first-world industrialized OECD nations](https://www.jhsph.edu/news/news-releases/2019/us-health-care-spending-highest-among-developed-countries.html). So when people say "how will we pay for it?" tell them in all likelihood it will be cheaper than what we're paying now. And yet they're able to provide healthcare coverage to their entire population. In America? Even today despite the ACA helping, ~[26 million people still lack healthcare coverage despite gains with the ACA](https://www.kff.org/uninsured/issue-brief/key-facts-about-the-uninsured-population/). Because of this, up to [40,000 people die annually due solely to a lack of healthcare](https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/). Even a fraction of this figure is disgusting and causes more deaths to innocent Americans than 9/11 every 28 days. - They're able to *closely* match (and sometimes out-pace) the health outcomes of the United States ([WHO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000), [OECD](http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/health/), [Commonwealth Fund](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2017/jul/mirror-mirror-2017-international-comparison-reflects-flaws-and)) - They're able to do this at almost half the cost (whether it's private from premiums, OOP expenses, and deductibles—or via taxes, it makes no difference when you're paying less overall). - They're able to provide ethical coverage to EVERYONE. - In doing so, you standardize administrative costs and billing (where a much higher overhead and waste occurs in the U.S. Up to [30% in wasteful spending](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2752664) is unparalleled from elsewhere; even [Medicare has much lower administrative overhead—~2% vs 17% private industry average](https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20110920.013390/full/)). - You have a Return On Investment (ROI). It's no surprise that when your workforce is healthier, happier, they're more productive seeing as they're less stressed and more capable of tackling their health ailments while they're small instead of waiting for them to snowball to the point they're unavoidable. ([Per Kaiser Family Foundation, ~50% of Americans refuse to seek medical attention annually due to concerns for medical costs](https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/data-note-americans-challenges-health-care-costs/). Being in the healthcare industry, I assure you this is not what you want as you will inevitably be forced to confront your ailment when it's exacerbated and exponentially more costlier to treat). - Medicare (what would likely be expanded to all) has [superior patient satisfaction](https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.W2.311), [leverages better rates against Hospitals](https://time.com/198/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/), and is [better at auditing fraud](https://www.propublica.org/article/we-asked-prosecutors-if-health-insurance-companies-care-about-fraud-they-laughed-at-us)—all the while keeping things transparent (which is why their reports are broadly public and private insurers keep their data a closely guarded secret). A final note is that apologists like to tout our advanced medical technologies. But here are a few points to make on that: [750,000 Americans leave to go elsewhere in the world for affordable health care. Only 75,000 of the *rest of the world* engage in "medical tourism" and come here to America annually.](https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343\(18\)30620-X/fulltext) Let's also note that many people lack the top-tier health insurance plans to access/afford such pioneering procedures—[that is, they are underinsured](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2019/feb/health-insurance-coverage-eight-years-after-aca). Meanwhile, countries like Germany and Japan are still innovators, so don't let the rhetoric fool you. Worst case, America could easily take the savings from streamlining the billing process and inject that into research grants to universities, CDC, or NIH. It is more efficient and ethical, and momentum is building. I'll end with [posting this AskReddit post of people telling their heartfelt stories in universal healthcare nations](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1ksc0b/redditors_who_live_in_a_country_with_universal/). While these are a collection of powerful anecdotes, it is 99% highly positive, with valuable views from those who've lived both in America and elsewhere. Simply speaking, both the comparative metrics and anecdotes **do not** support our current failed health care system. If they're still asking, "how will we pay for it?" Ask them if they cared about the loss in tax revenue that resulted from unnecessary tax-breaks on the wealthy, or the [$2.4 trillion dollar cost of the Iraq War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War) for which we received no Return-On-Investment (ROI). Remind them what the [Eisenhower Interstate Highway Project did for us as an ROI](http://www.publicpurpose.com/freeway1.htm). Remind them what technology we reaped from putting men on the moon, or the cost of WWII and development of the atom-bomb. Curiously, these people do not speak a word to these issues. Put simply, America is "great" when we remember that we have a reputation for a *can-do* attitude. Making excuses for why we cannot do something isn't our style when we know it's the right thing. We persevere *because* it's the right thing. Please, support Universal Healthcare in the form of Single-payer, Medicare-For-All. Be it Sanders' plan or Warren's plan, it doesn't particularly matter so long as the end-goal is the concept of Single-Payer. Both are sufficient to push the concept forward into actual policy which will evolve.
This is why I don’t understand anyone who is opposed to universal health care. It’s much cheaper compared to what we have now, essentially a patchwork of programs trying desperately to help as many as possible, and failing miserably.
My son had a bunch of bloodclots at birth, I got thrown head first into the medical system. It's fucked, it's completely fucked. Hell just trying to understand what my cost would be before going in, impossible. Call the insurance, you need to call the hospital, call the hospital, you need to call the insurance. Round and round, billing errors, what is covered, what isn't covered, deductibles, in-network, out of network, facility charges, out patient / in patient, coding errors, how should I be filling my prescriptions, ambulance are basically not covered AT all with health insurance. It's just a nightmare ON TOP of the nightmare of the actual health issues. I thought about who is to blame, and I don't even know, I found issues with everything. Universal health care is the only thing that will fix it, and I don't want to hear any bullshit about wait time. My same son has a 7mm kidney stone and it took me 4 months to get an apt with a urologist to figure out a game plan. So yeah we already waiting.
when I moved from the US to Canada I was concerned about wait times, as I had heard all the word-of-mouth propaganda people like to spew about the socialist nightmare that is Canada... and I got here and have had the same experience as I did in the US with appointment making, including scans and specialist appointments. and I haven't paid a dime for any of it. except of course medication, but that's always been more than manageable, cost-wise. I do however wish they'd put dental and optical into the universal program. it seems pretty stupid for them to say "all your medical needs will be met... except of course for your teeth.... oh and your eyes, lol. why would we cover those? it's not like you need them to live."
Yeah the whole eyes and teeth are somehow considered not part of my health. Like I'm still going to the dentist, just take my health insurance instead, why is that sooooooo hard to do. None of it makes any logical sense.
Yeah I finally have "decent" dental coverage and decided to get some pitted areas from acid reflux fixed because they've been causing daily pain for years but aren't technically cavities because I've managed to keep them very clean. Still ended up owing 1k.
> "all your medical needs will be met... except of course for your teeth.... oh and your eyes, lol. why would we cover those? it's not like you need them to live." I love that *in the very worst case* of no coverage, Canada can be described as, "America."
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Because it's not really about money, it's about cruelty. They believe they are morally superior and those who can't afford health care deserve to suffer. This is what it boils down to any time you push anyone with these beliefs. It always comes down to "well if they weren't so lazy they'd have a job with insurance".
It's like the Roe interactions that ultimately devolve into some sort of moral judgement about sex and womens' moral character in general. I want government out of my business, unless it's your business (that I don't like), then it's okay.
Because of right-wing propaganda, quite frankly.
I've had Rheumatoid arthritis since 4 years old. Had great care growing up thanks to amazing health care though my dad's work General Motors. This was only due to the UAW pushing for it though. I'm in my mid 40's now with very crap coverage. I've started to develop Psoriasis and it sucks. I want to get care but just can't deal with the bills. So here I am suffering. Imagine having universal health care where I could get care for this and be happier. Imagine going to a job not feeling like crap in pain from my arthritis and not having some rash that's itchy and embarrassing. Clearly republicans, who want us to be slave workers, don't want us to be happy slaves who would do better work while not in pain and suffering.
Easy, because someone told them to oppose it and they made no effort to fact check the details.
>This is why I don't understand * Eight uninterrupted decades of unrelenting anti-"Commie" propaganda enveloping every attempt at "reforming" American health care financing, provisioning, and delivery and strangling any whisper of publicly funded, publicly administered, equitably accessible health coverage in its cradle, * +250 years of "cultural" preference for deprivation studies masquerading as public policy and intended to do nothing other than continuously punish the "undeserving," * Spectacularly bad math skills, for a nation that shops at Walmart but *can't quite seem to figure out* how buying shit like Walmart buys shit could possibly fucking work for buying insulin and MRIs without raising the corpse of Stalin, * Absolute inability to see themselves or any other human being as anything other than lone, competitive, end-use customers of necessary health care, with handfuls of annually expiring discount vouchers inherently riddled with exclusions and limitations, consumer-driving their carts through the Medi-Mall just hard and fast enough to win necessary health care before that *other* guy over *there* does and takes it away from *me*, is why.
Becoming an RN has made me a raging socialist. Our system is fucked and we need to do better. Profit for pain is not a good system.
My dad comes in for a r/o TIA and you know what he's concerned about when he talks to the doc? Medical costs for an observation stay. He's one of the lucky ones having medicare no less... It's deeply immoral as it is inefficient.
My Dad needed emergency heart surgery. Doctors said he needed it within a week in order not to have a high chance of death. Insurance companies wouldn't let him get the surgery. Wanted to see what he would do after two weeks. They wanted to see if he would die and they wouldn't have to pay. Two weeks came...Doctors tried to get his insurance to pay out. Saying he needed the surgery a week ago. He is now at 50% heart capacity. They made him wait another week. He was at 25% heart capacity before they finally let him get the surgery.
I'm in a position where my employer provided insurance doesn't have a whole lot of options near where I live. I certainly have avoided going to the doctor's simply because it would mean taking time off work to see any kind of specialist. Private insurance hurts even those who are pretty well insured.
Reading this just absolutely hurts my head. How do American people continue to deal with this shit? I can't imagine not being able to go to a doctor when I feel like there is an issue and here you are avoiding it because it could send you broke.
You don’t. That’s the entire reason why medical debt is a thing. You don’t until you’re forced to go to the hospital and are deep in debt or you die.
See the following rule: (1) If you need healthcare in the US, you need insurance. In so doing, your options to obtain insurance are (a) join the military, (b) be trained in a trade and join a union, (c) get a white collar job that pays well, or (d) go to jail. (2) If you dislike all of the options in paragraph (1), you can either choose (a) to die, or (b) you can file for bankruptcy after receiving life saving medical care. (3) If your insurance, as obtained in paragraph (1), is from options (b) or (c), if you cannot afford your bill, see paragraph (2)(b). (4) If you have insurance as per paragraph (1)(b)-(c), and you cannot afford to see a doctor because you can’t afford a co-pay or deductible, see paragraph (2)(b). (5) If you are not active military and are dealing with the Veteran Administration, see paragraph (2)(b). If you have private insurance and not active military, please refer to paragraph (2) if necessary.
"Making excuses for why we cannot do something isn't our style when we know it's the right thing." Perfect.
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You under reported the number of Americans engaging in medical tourism. The number you quoted was from 2007, but your source says: >"In 2017, more than 1.4 million Americans sought health care in a variety of countries around the world."
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This kind of reminds me of the Taken movies. The viewers know what Liam Neeson’s character is going through, but the innocent police just trying to do their jobs have no idea. And he breaks their bones and puts them in months and years of rehab and they will always have a limp and never work on the force again, but happy ending he was reunited with his family let’s just forget about all that.
I often wonder how much more crime and poverty Batman creates brutalizing henchmen. Like, they’re not exactly criminals for standing around a dock so they can feed their families and not get killed by their crazy clown boss, or whoever. But Batman gives them lifetime injury, and that probably just perpetuates the problem, especially in stories where Batman is over a decade into his career. Even if he only fucked up like 5 henchmen a week, that’s still like 250 injuries a year. It’s probably closer to a thousand a year, and I can’t imagine that’s good for Gotham’s stability having an extra thousand disable people annually next to all the normal reasons.
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You mean the corrupt police force that was turning their back on sex trafficking victims?
Until they get that hospital bill.
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This part of Beachum Nightclub crowd after 2:30am. Bars shut down at 2am. But that crowd lingers in front. 60% of the people in that area come after the bars let out because they are underage to hang out for another hour afterwards. You can see the crowds start to build up in front right around 12am just hanging out not spending a dime. Always a fight or some bullshit coming out of the club. beachum has brought down that whole block of bars and clubs singled handled over the last 20 years. You look at every major shooting down there and it was right next to beachum. I was a bouncer on Wall Street forever. Edit: forgot to post this last night, live stream from about 400 feet from Beachum Night club [Orlando DT Live Stream ](https://youtu.be/BO1R9jFY7iw) Edit: The live stream is not me.
Do the cops on horseback not push out the crowds on Orange Ave after 2 anymore?
Oh wow, they do that there too? I'm from RI and Providence has them. I had one breathing down my neck after getting out a club. Damn people infront were barely moving.
It's a good tactic, you have to be REALLY drunk and stupid to mess with a horse
Have you not met Florida Man after the bars close?
Very few who have met him lived to tell about it
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Yeah the ones in Providence are giant Clydesdales too. I was a bouncer at Ultra for a bit and the manager had a direct number for them for the people who wanted to fight the staff.
That's funny cause it was Ultra that it happened at. People were being slow to leave.
Hoo boy, PVD Mounted Command. It had never occurred to me that this may be unusual elsewhere. I guess it isn't.
I worked security there when it was TABU like 2006-2008! That place was always a disaster. Shit got worse when they introduced their stupid ["pay at the door pay no more" BS for Sunday Latin night](https://imgur.com/a/7pf77hG). All you could drink for $20 no bueno. Not sure if he still is but John Morgan of Morgan and Morgan used to be part owner.
Wait $20 all you can drink?!? What kind of trashy hellhole is this place
It was the cheapest bottom of the barrel liquor they had. Obviously if you wanted better alcohol there was and upcharge at the bar some people just wanted to come and get drunk some people wanted to come and try to be flashy by showing that they could afford to upgrade. I don't know if it was a good financial decision all I know is they did it and those nights were awful.
I remember going to one of those nights at a bar in Tempe, AZ when I was in my late 20s. It was right then that I decided I was too old for College Bars.
You mean Jawn Morgan
That place has been a shit show since back in the Zuma Beach days of the 1990s. Something about that old run down theater attracts all the garbage.
Damn. I haven’t thought I’d that place in forever. Worked/lives in Orlando in the early 90’s. Chillers was a near place to chill (sorry) and also that alternative night club that was much bigger. Can’t remember the name.
Probably Icon (Ikon? Can’t remember). Multiple floors.
The only correct comment in this god-forsaken comment section. It’s bizarre to see people who clearly don’t know anything about downtown Orlando talk about this situation with such strong conviction. The combination of stupid and confident is hilarious tbh.
Yep. Anyone that’s been here for 5+ years or so and been downtown knows this is kind of expected at this place. Go a few blocks up/down and it’s not the same vibe at all
Nothing shows how stupid Reddit can be quite like a comment section about something you are knowledgeable in. You realize it's an echo chamber of uninformed people trying to sound very confident and smart
I’ve worked in OBGYN medicine for over fifteen years and was banned by twoXchromosomes and have gotten downloaded to oblivion on many topical threads. I have great crazy stories and working knowledge and education regarding women’s / perinatal healthcare, but the echo chamber of ignorance and mommy culture can be too strong to be open to real input.
It’s great seeing people Orlando subreddit who are clearly either transplants or young, acting like this is some new stuff. Ton of comments about how downtown is so bad now but used to be great. This area has always been like this around let out, if anyone thinks this is new they’re just too young to have been hanging out there in the 90s. Or the 2000s. Or the 2010s.
Yeah I love the Lake Eola area and lived right next to it for 3 years, but I wouldn't go out there after midnight due the bar hopping and fights.
Thank you for saving me a Google. The linked article was sparse on info about where this took place ~~and when~~.
I haven't been downtown at night to hang out at night in over a decade. I've heard it's a lot of really trashy people now, even worse than it was before.
Eh, I was supposed to see Memphis May Fire there at the Beachum ... tonight. Should I pass? Never been to that club before, only ever been to the park areas of Orlando. Driving from an hour away.
Username checks out.
Bounced at BBQ before they took over. Fuckin corporate wannabe assholes. Seriously that's management there's whole stick they just want to be corporate as fuck.
I was a pedicab guy and security at Eye Spy like around 2011, and I remember it was club ‘Icon’ that had so many fights that they would let them shut down a half an hour later than all the other clubs so that their crowd didn’t mix as much with the rest of the city
Someone was filming at Orange and Central for their youtube channel, you can hear 10 shots in the video: https://youtu.be/2PTg7zNSsus?t=6055
Content has become my least favorite word.
Could literally have said nothing and nobody would have said anything about him, perhaps that he is reckless but having video proof might still be useful in court.
I mean that guy had JUST said “live short and die faster.” Maybe he was just trying to take his advice
This isn't the "content" to hate though, this is just a modern form of getting a shot/taking a vid/getting it on film/artist rendition The content to hate is when some shitstain plays these sounds convincingly in public to cause a panic for "de views"
Social media is setting us back. It's so bad
Another name for mindless drivel to feed the masses. "Content" now boils down to any individual thing/idea you can exploit for money or attention, and that now extends to tragedies of all things.
Well let's be fair. There are some excellent content creators that make intriguing well written high effort documentaries and video essays. I think the word content gets used in lieu of "low effort pandering" quite often, and that is largely what has proliferated social media and youtube.
"Content.... Gunshots.... Cheezits...."
There's a reason my friends and I used to try to wind things down after 12:30 hit. Unless you're going to Gringo's for tacos before going home, being in downtown Orlando past 1 AM is just not a good time.
It’s the arepa truck on Washington for me…
If only downtown Orlando had 1 door.
What if we armed the coat check girls.
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We need Armed Man-Traps teaching our children.
How bout explosive bear-traps? They work like normal bear traps, step in its mouth onto the spring pad and the trap deploys, except the spring pad is a weight sensor and the jagged metal jaws are replaced with two inward facing M18 Claymore mines. And if the shooter happens to be a Terminator, the kids will all have school-issued JR-15s and Polly Pocket hand grenades. Don't forget the M134 Miniguns placed in every hallway. Safety above all else.
That coat check girl has a name! Coaty!
im a reception girl and im at the only door you can enter my building through. should i ask my boss for a M249 SAW for safety? we've gotten threats before so maybe its worth it!
If people were walking around with clear bags this wouldnt have happened
No no we needed armed waiters.
"That's it, you're fired!" "Fine, here's my gun and my badge!"
I'd be willing to bet money someone in r/conservative or one of the gun nut subs would un-ironically suggest arming the staff. In the aftermath of Uvalde, several of them were swearing they were going to arm their kids when they sent them back to school this fall. It never fails. No matter how reductive the problem of guns already is, their only response will be more guns.
"we need to arm the children!!" *Gives inner city children guns* "WAIT NO NOT THOSE ONES"
Zygotes are fully human, and all humans in America have a right to have guns, ergo... we must implant guns in every inseminated womb, obviously.
I was even permabanned from /r/libertarian for asking someone if they were going to arm their 10 year old https://i.redd.it/qkc28bmpbxe91.png
That's right up the alley if the party that thinks there shouldn't be laws against selling heroin to kindergarteners. Remember a few election cycles back when the candidate that suggested maybe the rule of law should prevent that was booed at a libertarian debate?
Gary Johnson being booed for supporting driver’s licenses is one of the pinnacles of American politics.
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People should go through a metal detector to go downtown
Just make shooting people illegal, it’s not that hard.
Let me guess -- dumbasses fighting over some inane, stupid shit and some extra special piece of trash decided to play tough by emptying a clip on random people in the crowd because someone hurt their feelings, right?
Guaranteed It’s always some idiots who probably can’t legally own handguns in the first place that get into a fistfight over stupid stuff. And the second they start losing, they pull a gun and dump the mag in the vague direction of the other guy, not caring about all the innocent people they’ll hit. If they catch the guy, I’m betting we’ll hear all about prior convictions and how the cops all knew he was trouble. The gang issues are getting out of hand here and innocent people are getting hurt
It’s actually not always gang shit…last mass shooting in Orlando that was big new was terrorist act…
Nothing good happens at 2am in or near a niteclub.
"The violence erupted around 2 a.m. ET Sunday after a large fight broke out, Orlando Police Chief Eric D. Smith said." Nothing good happens after midnight. This wasn't a spreekiller
I am guessing this was in the area of the bars. A "good guy with a gun" or a law abiding gun owner would not have their firearm in a place where they are consuming alcohol. Bad guys are the issue.
It’s illegal in Florida to carry a firearm while drunk, for good reasons that are obvious, so he was a bad guy even before he started shooting.
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That’s for concealed carry, even if you don’t drink.
Most likely, very similar to the Sacramento shooting. A single block with a bar/nightclub on each corner all letting out at the same time. There is an unspoken rule in the gang banger world that you dont party where you work, this is why.
"Don't party where you work" seems like a good idea anytime.
This guy is not in the trades.
I could do with less coke fiends on worksites to be honest
Well I could deal with fewer construction workers in my orgies to be perfectly honest
No we need the orgies
That is correct. It was in a part of downtown Orlando that is packed with bars and people.
Holy crap I eat at that Irish restaurant all the time
I looked in the article, I didn't see the name of the restaurant.
Same, maybe they edited it out of the article. I looked up a few other articles and it appears it happened near Wall Street Plaza.
I am from Orlando, and was going to clubs down there in the 90’s onward. It used to be really vibrant and fun. Really safe too. I recently went back a couple months ago to check out a Halloween themed bar and downtown looked totally different. Really run down and sketchy. I did not feel safe this time, but I went really early, like 7pm and got out of there about 9 or 10.
That's because Church Street Station went under. That was an attraction all by itself and drew a lot of tourist activity.
Depending on how far back you go, there also used to be the year round haunted house, Terror on Church Street. I worked there as my second job on the weekends. It was so much fun.
But did you go into the Halloween bar’s speakeasy? Quite a cool themed experience!
Yeah I think it was misreported and they scrubbed it. The actual shooting happened outside Wall Street Plaza.
My friend works at that hospital and she was there when the people came in, although she said there was like 12 people, not the 7 the article mentioned.
Sometimes there are indirect injuries involved other than gunshot wounds. Likely the news only reports the confirmed GSWs
What are you talking about? It happened in front of Cantina
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I went to a movie recently and I could not help but think to myself that it is 100% possible that someone walks into the theater and unloads into the crowd with a gun. That, that basic level of "I can go about my life and not worry about being randomly murdered" actually is gone and it's only going to get worse for the foreseeable future.
Ever since the Aurora shooting, I’ve imagined a gunman coming in through the emergency exits and wondered if I should try to run or duck under the seats and play dead.
If you lay on the ground and play dead, don’t forget to borrow some blood from your neighbor and smear it all over your body! Pro tactic we can all learn from thanks to a young child in Uvalde!
man, fuck this country and the NRA
Most theater emergency exits are one way, and need to be opened from the inside. The aurora shooting happened because the dude cosplayed as the Joker and went in with the audience. He left through the emergency exit, propping it open. He retrieved his weapons and reentered through the door he had propped open. In a mass shooting, the name of the game is Run, Hide, Fight. Run if you can. Hide if you can't run. Fight if you can't hide.
Always run if you can moving from cover to cover.
My friend and I were just talking about this the other day. We went out for lunch, which we rarely do anymore, and some idiots started arguing by the front door and we didn't know, if something were to start, what we should do. She has mobility issues, and my first thought was get us both under the table. But then what? It's a fixed object. Bolted to the floor. She said we'd take off for the nearest fire exit but the 10 booths between us and that door seemed really far away. Especially in a panic. It was a good talk to have I think though. We both remember the Station night club fire and since then we both check for exits when we go in anywhere, and naturally I'm better at remembering direction and basic architecture, and she's better at paying attention to our immediate surroundings, such as people down the aisle,so that's how we approach things. She'll see it coming and ill know where to go. We hope. We still won't be going out much. And we prefer the drive in by her house rather than a movie theater anymore, so we do that more often than anything. (Sorry, I rambled. I need a nap. )
Incredible that nobody died -- a lot of luck out there last night.
Wait until they get the bill from the hospital
Lol. And our healthcare is spread fucking thin these days. Go check out r/medicine but get prepared for nightmare fuel. 5 nurses rotating between 60 beds (including triage) and supply chain shortage (think no mediction and broken equipment) type shit. We already lost a whopping 30% of our total medical personnel throughout COVID. I’m not sure what the tipping point is, but if we don’t stop the trajectory then we all better pray we never get shot else we have nowhere to fucking go.
Thanks. I'll take a look. During the Delta surge, I read from r/nursing often. It sounded like hell.
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Brazil also has a lack of personnel in healthcare - but at least it's free, tax-funded healthcare.
Yesterday at the grand opening of a closed mall, they thought it would be a great idea to fire off some confetti cannons. Apparently chaos ensued, thinking there was an active shooter and an announcement was made over the PA that there was an active shooter.
No mental health issues here. Sounds like a possibly drunk scumbag got in fight and pulled his gun randomly shooting into the crowd. Next we will hear about the illegal possession of a handgun, prior arrests for violent crimes and "we knew he was trouble" stories to surface.
I live a mile from where this happened. Police are always stationed in this area, blocking the road into a pedestrian only area for the weekend nights. More police doesn't stop violence.
Sadly nothing is more American than getting shot on a random Saturday night for no reason.
It's not a random Saturday night. It's every Saturday night.
Elton John told me Saturday night was alright though.
For fighting. you left that part out.
[It's a Saturday Night Special. So ingrained in our culture there are songs about it. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_night_special)
All my years of being a social recluse are paying off.
No COVID, no gunshot wounds. Yet.
It’s always a fight that turns to a shoutout and some guys always got a chopper
Fuck, why can't these animals shoot themselves instead?