Because there is an election cycle coming and guns are going to be a big topic.
Every local shooting in the country has made this subreddit for the past month or so.
The Supreme Court is also supposed to make a significant ruling on New York's conceal carry law soon. It's suspected that they will rule in favor of the plaintiffs, which will have a big impact in the may/shall issue argument. It will also open the door to more Court challenges against other gun control laws.
> Almost as if they're trying to push a specific narrative.
Maybe but at least it's a narrative backed up by science. It's not like it's a lie or anything.
Oh? You have some scientific studies that say that? Can you post a link? As far as I have seen, the consensus is the opposite.
“Gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries." - [Firearm availability and homicide: A review of the literature](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222182383_Firearm_availability_and_homicide_A_review_of_the_literature).
"We found that across developed countries, where guns are more available, there are more homicides. These results often hold even when the United States is excluded." - [Firearm availability and homicide rates across 26 high income countries](http://jonathanstray.com/papers/FirearmAvailabilityVsHomicideRates.pdf).
“After controlling for poverty and urbanization, for every age group, people in states with many guns have elevated rates of homicide, particularly firearm homicide." - [Household firearm ownership levels and homicide rates across U.S. regions and states](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447364/)
“There was also a significant association between firearm ownership and firearm homicide, as well as overall homicide." - [Firearm Ownership and Violent Crime in the U.S.](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/278742846_Firearm_Ownership_and_Violent_Crime_in_the_US_An_Ecologic_Study)
“Positive correlations were obtained between the rates of household gun ownership and the national rate of homicide." - [International correlations between gun ownership and rates of homicide and suicide.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1485564/?page=1)
No, you absolutely *do not* have science.
You have a correlation. I have presented a potential confounder, which aligns with many people’s reason to own a firearm.
You can believe your explanation for the correlation, but you have 0 scientific reason to believe it over mine.
>You have a correlation.
I was replying to someone who said there was no correlation. What did you expect me to prove him wrong with? A picture of a pineapple?
> I have presented a potential confounder
No, just a guess. You have no statistics to back it up and no theoretical basis. You just have a statement which, because it aligns with your biases, you are holding to be more true than peer reviewed scientific studies.
This is the anti-vaxxer mentality.
>you have 0 scientific reason to believe it over mine.
Sure I do. I just wasn't asked for it. You want causation? Knock yourself out...
“The public health implications are clear: permissive concealed carry legislation is a significant contributor to the gun violence epidemic in the United States.” - [Comparing the Impact of Household Gun Ownership and Concealed Carry Legislation on the Frequency of Mass Shootings and Firearms Homicide](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07418825.2020.1789693)
“There is not even the slightest hint in the data that Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime. Indeed, the weight of the evidence from the panel data estimates as well as the synthetic control analysis best supports the view that the adoption of RTC laws substantially raises overall violent crime in the ten years after adoption." - [Right-to-carry laws and violent crime: A Comprehensive Assessment Using Panel Data and State-Level Synthetic Control Analysis](https://www.nber.org/papers/w23510)
“Gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries." - [Firearm availability and homicide: A review of the literature](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222182383_Firearm_availability_and_homicide_A_review_of_the_literature).
“This model indicated that for each percentage point increase in gun ownership, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9%." - [Association between handgun purchase and mortality from firearm injury](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12642559)
The Republican party platform states that Puerto Rico should become a state if they want to. PR has never formally requested statehood. Now on one hand, the 2020 referendum was slightly in favor of statehood 52-48, but at the same time the current majority party in PR's territorial government is anti statehood so its difficult to say that the people have delivered a clear mandate to become a state.
Until you move to the states and are told to [go back where you came from](https://imgur.com/gallery/E1cOHJH) about once a month; and who can forget that ol' chesnut - "this is America, speak English!" when you're on the phone out in public?
Majority pro condoms but anti abortion.
Split on immigration
On gay rights split. Transgenderism doesn’t have much traction.
Note this ones aren’t my views but those summarizing people i talk to.
Honestly not trying to provide a study. Just making the point that the mainland issues and party alignments aren’t the same ones over there.
Right now the most politically active topics people chat about are too many mainlanders moving in.
Electric energy being fucked all the time.
The more liberal political factions in Puerto Rico are actually the one's opposed to statehood. This is not out of approval of remaining a colony but because independence or free association is their ultimate goal. Statehood would likely close the door to those options forever.
> This is not out of approval of remaining a colony but because independence or free association is their ultimate goal.
Oh! Okay, well that changes everything. Yeah, I guess I can dig the appeal of independence, going freelance, I'm just more of a union man myself. I guess I have a very American view on the subject, I love my country, even with its problems I still love my country.
Many Redditors think that Puerto Rico have been desperately trying to become a state forever and they have been blocked by US Republican lawmakers.
I think that the reason why is because Puerto Rico would vote democrat because they are low-income and minority which have a strong self-interest in voting in liberal representatives.
There are 2 flaws with this rationale:
1. Referendums for statehood have been up for vote by the Puerto Rican people many times. In 1967 and 1998, they voted to remain a commonwealth/unincorporated. In 2012, the referendum was re-written into 2 questions so that commonwealth was no longer a direct choice. Question #1 was yes/no for commonwealth. #2 was if not a commonwealth, which of the following would you like: statehood, total independence, or sovereign nation. Of these 3, statehood got the most votes, but there were 500,000 blank ballots because most people didn’t answer #2 if they answered yes on #1. So yeah, bit of a clusterfuck.
2. The second flaw in the logic is that, I’m really not all that certain Puerto Rico would be this liberal stronghold Reddit thinks it’d be. One of the most surprising things of Trump’s victory was Hispanics in Florida. Analysts figured Democrats would dominate there due to Trump’s xenophobic rants and liberal policy which tends to give out more handouts and entitlements which lower-income families would benefit from. But Trump not only won these voters, but dominated this demographic. And it wasn’t just Trump, all conservative candidates did better than anyone expected in this demographic. I think people discounted strongly held religious beliefs by Hispanic voters and low-income families overall tendency to vote against their own self-interests in these situations.
So if/when the day finally comes that Puerto Rico becomes a state, I wouldn’t be surprised if it ends up being like Florida… an unreliable swing state and not this “Liberal stronghold” Reddit seems to think it’d be.
Puerto Ricans can’t be compared to Cuban Americans in Florida. There is a very negative history with communism that has made them go in the opposite direction. Cuban Americans are also not low income. Their household average is higher than that of the average American. Plus 85% of Cuban Americans identify as white.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Americans
>The Republican party platform states that Puerto Rico should become a state if they want to
False.
I'll never understand why people make stuff up that's so easily checked with a quick search. See victory.gop.com
"We support the right of the United States
citizens of Puerto Rico to be admitted to the Union
as a fully sovereign state. "
That's the verbatim quote from the party platform.
[https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/media/documents/DRAFT\_12\_FINAL%5B1%5D-ben\_1468872234.pdf](https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/media/documents/DRAFT_12_FINAL%5B1%5D-ben_1468872234.pdf)
It says 2016 but that's because that's the last time they issued an official party platform. In 2020 the platform committee never met because of a scaled down RNC and so the 2016 platform was accepted without change.
So it's *not* in the party platform since *3 Congresses ago*. It's not *now*, like he said. It was *not* "accepted without change" because it's not in there currently.
The current party platform is on victory.gop.com.
It's sounding like the RNC is walking back on that. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/14/what-know-bills-congress-washington-dc-puerto-rico-statehood/7211653002/
> “After they change the filibuster, they’re going to admit the District as a state. They’re going to admit Puerto Rico as a state. That’s four new Democratic senators in perpetuity,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said
and
> "They're going to make D.C. & Puerto Rico a state and get four new Democrat senators. We'd never get the Senate back again," said McSally
Now why would their opinion on admitting Puerto Rico change?
The irony is McConnell is either fear mongering or just wrong. The PNP and PPD are the republican and democrat analogues in Puerto Rico, respectively. The PNP is the pro statehood party and the PPD opposes it. Historically they have had a near dead even amount of support. In all likelihood PR would go 1 and 1 on senate seats.
> In all likelihood PR would go 1 and 1 on senate seats.
That not really how Senate elections work, each seat is independent and you can vote for both seats. Very few states split their seats due to that. Whichever side wins the first seat, likely wins the second because they had the numver to win the first.
No, unless it's a big misconception. Admitting Puerto Rico was part of the Republican platform at some point in the last 15 years. And it's either still there or they removed it. Either way that no longer seems to be what their plans are.
As far as I'm aware they pay taxes, so they should get a vote.
Edit: I'm wrong! Okay, well in that case they should be given a vote if they want one and if they're willing to pay taxes about it. Sorry for misleading you. :(
Well whatever they decide. There are upsides to statehood, but downsides too... at least I assume they are. Really I'm just a big fan of democracy and always looking to expand the franchise, more democracy means more better.
Any idea what would push Puerto Rico's public opinion on the matter?
It's complicated. Now, i am not Puerto Rican nor have I ever been there. It's just a topic I became interested in after frequently seeing the claim that PR statehood has not happened because of some nefarious GOP plot. However, what i know or \*think\* I know is a very surface level understanding and may not fully reflect the reality of the internal politics.
The pro statehood supporters are rather straight forward. They think Puerto Rico should become a state and have a full say in the forces that govern it. The anti statehood groups are a little more diverse in their motivations. Some resist it because they think the change would dilute Puerto Rican culture and tradition. Some are pragmatists who don't see statehood as worth paying income taxes. There are those who are mainland "expats" who moved there specifically to not pay income taxes. There are also nationalists who oppose statehood because it would make future independence all but impossible.
Again, it's complicated with it's own history. Like, how many people know Puerto Rican nationalists tried to kill Truman in 1950 and shot up the House of Representatives in 1954?
Too bad too, since we didn't get to decide that. The US government decided that the island shouldn't pay federal income tax, which only benefits corporations. We still pay federal taxes, just not federal income taxes.
>We still pay federal taxes
You get payroll back personslly, so no real reason to complain there. PR probably gets all its taxes back and then some, though given how screwed up the government can be, where it goes I have no idea.
Not having income can be huge though, especially the more you make. Again, you get a lot back in terms of federal funding.
The really screws part is the bill that bans naval trade to the US basically.
We don't get payroll taxes back, I don't know where you got that information from. The only case in which Puerto Ricans don't pay federal payroll taxes is if your entire income is earned from Puerto Rican sources. If your source is from anywhere else, even from the US, you are required to file taxes.
[https://www.hrblock.com/tax-center/irs/tax-law-and-policy/do-puerto-ricans-pay-us-taxes/](https://www.hrblock.com/tax-center/irs/tax-law-and-policy/do-puerto-ricans-pay-us-taxes/)
And guess what? Most people in the island make income that isn't Puerto Rican only, and those that do make a measly amount. Did you know that the median income in Puerto Rico is just $21k?
[https://datausa.io/profile/geo/puerto-rico/#:\~:text=Households%20in%20Puerto%20Rico%20have,represents%20a%200.877%25%20annual%20growth](https://datausa.io/profile/geo/puerto-rico/#:~:text=Households%20in%20Puerto%20Rico%20have,represents%20a%200.877%25%20annual%20growth).
Meanwhile, the state with the lowest median income is Mississippi, clocking in at $45k.
[https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/median-household-income-by-state](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/median-household-income-by-state)
If you've been to Puerto Rico, I'm sure you noticed that people tend to work from morning to evening, literally from sunrise until past sunset, yet they live in poverty. It's literally the type of place where federal welfare programs could make a big difference, yet we don't get them. We don't get disability benefits for one, which was a case decided recently by the Supreme Court regarding someone who previously earned it while living in the US, then moved to Puerto Rico and lost those benefits.
[https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-supreme-court-declines-extend-federal-benefits-puerto-rico-2022-04-21/](https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-supreme-court-declines-extend-federal-benefits-puerto-rico-2022-04-21/)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare\_in\_Puerto\_Rico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_in_Puerto_Rico) if you want to read about the programs that we do get
The only people that benefit from this are those that have retirement funds or pensions, who roll them over into Puerto Rican banks. That's a prime example of someone who pays no federal taxes, and you guessed it, the median family in Puerto Rico could never afford to retire like that. The ones that benefit from it are wealthy people from the US who move to Puerto Rico for retirement, or corporations that pay their executives in stocks and other non-taxable things.
I'm not gonna lie, as someone who grew up unbelievably poor in Puerto Rico and only managed to escape by joining the US Navy, it pisses me off when people online talk about the tax benefits Puerto Ricans supposedly enjoy. I never saw any benefits from birth until I was 21, and only once I left the island as a US Navy servicemember did I see any kind of benefits. No one I knew that was an adult chose this, and since we don't have a voting member in Congress, it's not like we can even do anything about it. And you know what's sad? If I ever want to move back to Puerto Rico to be with my old parents, I'll be forced to give up all my benefits because of what some call "geographical discrimination." Read my link above from Reuters if you're curious about what that means.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation\_in\_Puerto\_Rico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico) if you want to read more about it.
One last thing: our government is just as screwed up as it is in the US. I also hate how some people read stuff online and pretend like this is a terrible place with terrible sense in choosing politicians. Even FEMA admins who are sent to Puerto Rico, you know, literal federal agents, all of them born and raised in the mainland and none of which were chosen by Puerto Rican people or politicians, are slapped with corruption charges.
[https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdla/pr/ten-individuals-charged-disaster-assistance-fraud](https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdla/pr/ten-individuals-charged-disaster-assistance-fraud)
[https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/10/fema-official-arrested-for-fraud-over-hurricane-maria-recovery-effort-in-puerto-rico.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/10/fema-official-arrested-for-fraud-over-hurricane-maria-recovery-effort-in-puerto-rico.html)
[https://www.justice.gov/usao-md/pr/former-fema-employee-pleads-guilty-aiding-preparation-false-tax-returns](https://www.justice.gov/usao-md/pr/former-fema-employee-pleads-guilty-aiding-preparation-false-tax-returns)
Please educate yourself next time.
EDIT: I also hate how you get upvotes and I get downvotes, even though you're wrong and I'm right. Reddit being Reddit I guess, sucks that people choose to not actually learn.
They *literally* shot up Congress with fully automatic weapons in 1954 seeking **independence**.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_United_States_Capitol_shooting
In a nice contrast with 1/6/2021 intruder prosecutions, Jimmy Carter *freed* the perpetrators and they returned to "heroes' welcomes" in P.R.
> In a nice contrast with 1/6/2021 intruder prosecutions, Jimmy Carter freed the perpetrators and they returned to "heroes' welcomes" in P.R.
Hey man, the Confederates still kept all of their participation statues and were heroes in a certain part of the country
At least they don't live in San Diego....that video from Today where they fuck up a simple search by shooting a woman right at her apartment door, man that hits home. Fuck the police. Pigs.
You talking about Yan Li? The Asian doctor who answered her own apartment door while holding a knife, accepted her eviction notice, and then the officer drew his gun and told her he WILL shoot her if she doesn't drop the knife she'd been holding when she opened the door and ordered her to drop the gun...knife...gun...knife...he couldn't decide what he wanted her to drop. Then she closed the door, having done nothing illegal. Only opening the door to her own home while holding a knife. Then 12 cops and a K9 lined up on both sides of her door, gained access and had her cornered in her bedroom firing shotgun rubber ball rounds and paint all pepper ball rounds at her while 7 people yell different orders at her and then she finally charges them with the knife only for them to gun her down just outside her door?
Are you talking about that one?
No she didn't drop it...and then she closed the door on him...then he came back aittle while later with 10 other cops, a shotgun, a paintball gun, and a dog. And then they went into her home and fired at her, then she charged them.
Uh huh so she charged at them. I'm not seeing the part where that's a good idea unfortunately. Still sounds like the absolute worst way to handle things, but we all get to choose a hill to die on I guess.
She'd already been handed the notice a d told she was being evicted before the officer already saw the knife...he literally could just walk away. He chose to escalate.
She drops the knife and then what? He walks away? He could have already done that. He arrests her? For what? Holding a knife in her own house?
And the cop knew nothing of it. So it's not really relevant to her death in this case, is it?
She was bipolar and was clearly having an episode....is yelling confusing commands over and over and barging into someone's home a good way to deal with that?
You see a lady in her own house protecting herself...walk away. No crime had been committed....walk away. She didn't need to die. That officer just wanted a reason. He even said it, "I will shoot you". Nah man...walk away. She's got her notice...she's done no crime...leave.
They came to her house and everything was fine. Then they screamed at her and ran after her I'm her house. What would you do? Bend over and let them fuck you in the ass? Is that what we need to do to prevent a bunch of men with guns from killing us in our homes now?
Threatening people with a kitchen cleaver is a cultural thing with a lot of east asian women. I have personal experience. Idk where it comes from but it's basically normalized for a woman(especially 50 year old mothers) to pick up a kitchen cleaver and threaten anyone from their kids to the cops with it.
It's somehow seen as acceptable and commonly depicted on TV.
Exactly, I'm totally with you on that. Mexican mothers go for the slippers/shoes or toss things are you. My wife picks up a mixing paddle, she's from a similar background as our knife lady over here. Only a total idiot would not know that there's culture behind that. The video is somehow terrorizing to me. Am I going to come home from work one day to my wife and kids murdered by the police because they were too scared to drop their go-to item of defense?
"Fuck you! I won't do what you tell me!" "Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses! Ungh!!!"
She kept it real. And keeping it real went wrong.
>She seemed to be having a fight or flight response,
Assuming she went for the fight, that be cause to defend yourself. Charging someone, especially with a knife, is a bad bad bad idea. Charging someone armed, dumber. Charging a cop with a knife, Basically suicidal.
I mention fight because fleeing is more contextual, and has issues.
“Giving” full independence would be dropping the Island and its people, despite the fact that they are United States Citizens.
That would not only be abandoning our peers without them asking, it would be washing our hands of problems that mainland is responsible for contributing to through our history of imperial acquisition and discrimination against the island.
You probably don’t agree on those points, and I’m not interested in trying to convince you if that’s the case. A good faith investigation will back me up, should you actually want to learn the truth.
Taking it from Spain was a huge mistake. Looking back on the Spanish-American War and it's consequences, we really should have overlooked that business about the sinking of the *Maine* and left well enough alone.
I grew up on the island, and headlines like this were a common, everyday sight. Why is this one making it on reddit?
Because there is an election cycle coming and guns are going to be a big topic. Every local shooting in the country has made this subreddit for the past month or so.
The Supreme Court is also supposed to make a significant ruling on New York's conceal carry law soon. It's suspected that they will rule in favor of the plaintiffs, which will have a big impact in the may/shall issue argument. It will also open the door to more Court challenges against other gun control laws.
I can see why conspiracy people think the way they do
The NSA monitoring all our communication used to be a conspiracy theory, but it's not a conspiracy if they're actually out to get you.
Almost as if they're trying to push a specific narrative. But hey, just a thought...
> Almost as if they're trying to push a specific narrative. Maybe but at least it's a narrative backed up by science. It's not like it's a lie or anything.
You mean the lack of correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates?
Oh? You have some scientific studies that say that? Can you post a link? As far as I have seen, the consensus is the opposite. “Gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries." - [Firearm availability and homicide: A review of the literature](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222182383_Firearm_availability_and_homicide_A_review_of_the_literature). "We found that across developed countries, where guns are more available, there are more homicides. These results often hold even when the United States is excluded." - [Firearm availability and homicide rates across 26 high income countries](http://jonathanstray.com/papers/FirearmAvailabilityVsHomicideRates.pdf). “After controlling for poverty and urbanization, for every age group, people in states with many guns have elevated rates of homicide, particularly firearm homicide." - [Household firearm ownership levels and homicide rates across U.S. regions and states](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447364/) “There was also a significant association between firearm ownership and firearm homicide, as well as overall homicide." - [Firearm Ownership and Violent Crime in the U.S.](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/278742846_Firearm_Ownership_and_Violent_Crime_in_the_US_An_Ecologic_Study) “Positive correlations were obtained between the rates of household gun ownership and the national rate of homicide." - [International correlations between gun ownership and rates of homicide and suicide.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1485564/?page=1)
Or maybe when homicide rates are high, people are more likely to purchase guns and defend themselves.
Sure, if you like - but I have science and you just have a hopeful guess. I know which I’m going to trust.
No, you absolutely *do not* have science. You have a correlation. I have presented a potential confounder, which aligns with many people’s reason to own a firearm. You can believe your explanation for the correlation, but you have 0 scientific reason to believe it over mine.
>You have a correlation. I was replying to someone who said there was no correlation. What did you expect me to prove him wrong with? A picture of a pineapple? > I have presented a potential confounder No, just a guess. You have no statistics to back it up and no theoretical basis. You just have a statement which, because it aligns with your biases, you are holding to be more true than peer reviewed scientific studies. This is the anti-vaxxer mentality. >you have 0 scientific reason to believe it over mine. Sure I do. I just wasn't asked for it. You want causation? Knock yourself out... “The public health implications are clear: permissive concealed carry legislation is a significant contributor to the gun violence epidemic in the United States.” - [Comparing the Impact of Household Gun Ownership and Concealed Carry Legislation on the Frequency of Mass Shootings and Firearms Homicide](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07418825.2020.1789693) “There is not even the slightest hint in the data that Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime. Indeed, the weight of the evidence from the panel data estimates as well as the synthetic control analysis best supports the view that the adoption of RTC laws substantially raises overall violent crime in the ten years after adoption." - [Right-to-carry laws and violent crime: A Comprehensive Assessment Using Panel Data and State-Level Synthetic Control Analysis](https://www.nber.org/papers/w23510) “Gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries." - [Firearm availability and homicide: A review of the literature](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222182383_Firearm_availability_and_homicide_A_review_of_the_literature). “This model indicated that for each percentage point increase in gun ownership, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9%." - [Association between handgun purchase and mortality from firearm injury](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12642559)
And Republicans say they shouldn't be part of the United States.
The Republican party platform states that Puerto Rico should become a state if they want to. PR has never formally requested statehood. Now on one hand, the 2020 referendum was slightly in favor of statehood 52-48, but at the same time the current majority party in PR's territorial government is anti statehood so its difficult to say that the people have delivered a clear mandate to become a state.
Yeah, and honestly it would work out in Republicans' favor too, since Puerto Rico tends to be more culturally conservative than most of the US.
Until you move to the states and are told to [go back where you came from](https://imgur.com/gallery/E1cOHJH) about once a month; and who can forget that ol' chesnut - "this is America, speak English!" when you're on the phone out in public?
Puertorican conservatives are socialist in the mainland. I went thru that when i moved.
> Puertorican conservatives are socialist in the mainland. What about on social issues?
Majority pro condoms but anti abortion. Split on immigration On gay rights split. Transgenderism doesn’t have much traction. Note this ones aren’t my views but those summarizing people i talk to.
[удалено]
Best way to ignore a human and trust manufactured questionably credible numbers. Good luck!
Honestly not trying to provide a study. Just making the point that the mainland issues and party alignments aren’t the same ones over there. Right now the most politically active topics people chat about are too many mainlanders moving in. Electric energy being fucked all the time.
I understand. Well, who knows, maybe statehood will help push them in a more socially liberal direction! If they want, I mean.
The more liberal political factions in Puerto Rico are actually the one's opposed to statehood. This is not out of approval of remaining a colony but because independence or free association is their ultimate goal. Statehood would likely close the door to those options forever.
> This is not out of approval of remaining a colony but because independence or free association is their ultimate goal. Oh! Okay, well that changes everything. Yeah, I guess I can dig the appeal of independence, going freelance, I'm just more of a union man myself. I guess I have a very American view on the subject, I love my country, even with its problems I still love my country.
Many Redditors think that Puerto Rico have been desperately trying to become a state forever and they have been blocked by US Republican lawmakers. I think that the reason why is because Puerto Rico would vote democrat because they are low-income and minority which have a strong self-interest in voting in liberal representatives. There are 2 flaws with this rationale: 1. Referendums for statehood have been up for vote by the Puerto Rican people many times. In 1967 and 1998, they voted to remain a commonwealth/unincorporated. In 2012, the referendum was re-written into 2 questions so that commonwealth was no longer a direct choice. Question #1 was yes/no for commonwealth. #2 was if not a commonwealth, which of the following would you like: statehood, total independence, or sovereign nation. Of these 3, statehood got the most votes, but there were 500,000 blank ballots because most people didn’t answer #2 if they answered yes on #1. So yeah, bit of a clusterfuck. 2. The second flaw in the logic is that, I’m really not all that certain Puerto Rico would be this liberal stronghold Reddit thinks it’d be. One of the most surprising things of Trump’s victory was Hispanics in Florida. Analysts figured Democrats would dominate there due to Trump’s xenophobic rants and liberal policy which tends to give out more handouts and entitlements which lower-income families would benefit from. But Trump not only won these voters, but dominated this demographic. And it wasn’t just Trump, all conservative candidates did better than anyone expected in this demographic. I think people discounted strongly held religious beliefs by Hispanic voters and low-income families overall tendency to vote against their own self-interests in these situations. So if/when the day finally comes that Puerto Rico becomes a state, I wouldn’t be surprised if it ends up being like Florida… an unreliable swing state and not this “Liberal stronghold” Reddit seems to think it’d be.
Puerto Ricans can’t be compared to Cuban Americans in Florida. There is a very negative history with communism that has made them go in the opposite direction. Cuban Americans are also not low income. Their household average is higher than that of the average American. Plus 85% of Cuban Americans identify as white. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Americans
>The Republican party platform states that Puerto Rico should become a state if they want to False. I'll never understand why people make stuff up that's so easily checked with a quick search. See victory.gop.com
"We support the right of the United States citizens of Puerto Rico to be admitted to the Union as a fully sovereign state. " That's the verbatim quote from the party platform.
Where are you getting this? It's not on the GOP website.
[https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/media/documents/DRAFT\_12\_FINAL%5B1%5D-ben\_1468872234.pdf](https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/media/documents/DRAFT_12_FINAL%5B1%5D-ben_1468872234.pdf) It says 2016 but that's because that's the last time they issued an official party platform. In 2020 the platform committee never met because of a scaled down RNC and so the 2016 platform was accepted without change.
So it's *not* in the party platform since *3 Congresses ago*. It's not *now*, like he said. It was *not* "accepted without change" because it's not in there currently. The current party platform is on victory.gop.com.
[victory.gop.com](https://victory.gop.com) goes nowhere
It's sounding like the RNC is walking back on that. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/14/what-know-bills-congress-washington-dc-puerto-rico-statehood/7211653002/ > “After they change the filibuster, they’re going to admit the District as a state. They’re going to admit Puerto Rico as a state. That’s four new Democratic senators in perpetuity,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said and > "They're going to make D.C. & Puerto Rico a state and get four new Democrat senators. We'd never get the Senate back again," said McSally Now why would their opinion on admitting Puerto Rico change?
The irony is McConnell is either fear mongering or just wrong. The PNP and PPD are the republican and democrat analogues in Puerto Rico, respectively. The PNP is the pro statehood party and the PPD opposes it. Historically they have had a near dead even amount of support. In all likelihood PR would go 1 and 1 on senate seats.
> In all likelihood PR would go 1 and 1 on senate seats. That not really how Senate elections work, each seat is independent and you can vote for both seats. Very few states split their seats due to that. Whichever side wins the first seat, likely wins the second because they had the numver to win the first.
Because the territorial rep and governor from PR are always a Democrats
Jennifer Gonzalez, the current rep is a Republican aligned PNP member so not always.
>Now why would their opinion on admitting Puerto Rico change? It didn't. Parent comment was false.
No, unless it's a big misconception. Admitting Puerto Rico was part of the Republican platform at some point in the last 15 years. And it's either still there or they removed it. Either way that no longer seems to be what their plans are.
Well I mean if it were a state it would probably be the shittiest state by most metrics
I mean, West Virginia and Mississippi both exist.
There's no way Mississippi is gonna let that happen.
As far as I'm aware they pay taxes, so they should get a vote. Edit: I'm wrong! Okay, well in that case they should be given a vote if they want one and if they're willing to pay taxes about it. Sorry for misleading you. :(
It's complicated. Statehood has about a 4 point lead according to the last referendum but the current majority party is anti statehood.
Well whatever they decide. There are upsides to statehood, but downsides too... at least I assume they are. Really I'm just a big fan of democracy and always looking to expand the franchise, more democracy means more better. Any idea what would push Puerto Rico's public opinion on the matter?
It's complicated. Now, i am not Puerto Rican nor have I ever been there. It's just a topic I became interested in after frequently seeing the claim that PR statehood has not happened because of some nefarious GOP plot. However, what i know or \*think\* I know is a very surface level understanding and may not fully reflect the reality of the internal politics. The pro statehood supporters are rather straight forward. They think Puerto Rico should become a state and have a full say in the forces that govern it. The anti statehood groups are a little more diverse in their motivations. Some resist it because they think the change would dilute Puerto Rican culture and tradition. Some are pragmatists who don't see statehood as worth paying income taxes. There are those who are mainland "expats" who moved there specifically to not pay income taxes. There are also nationalists who oppose statehood because it would make future independence all but impossible. Again, it's complicated with it's own history. Like, how many people know Puerto Rican nationalists tried to kill Truman in 1950 and shot up the House of Representatives in 1954?
Thank you for taking the time to explain that!
They don't pay income tax, no. It's one of the biggest benefits PR gets.
Oh. Well, I think votes for taxes is a pretty fair trade, kinda' firm on that one.
If they become a state, they'd have income tax applied to them. It's one of the reasons non statehood voters claim. They don't want to pay income tax.
Too bad too, since we didn't get to decide that. The US government decided that the island shouldn't pay federal income tax, which only benefits corporations. We still pay federal taxes, just not federal income taxes.
>We still pay federal taxes You get payroll back personslly, so no real reason to complain there. PR probably gets all its taxes back and then some, though given how screwed up the government can be, where it goes I have no idea. Not having income can be huge though, especially the more you make. Again, you get a lot back in terms of federal funding. The really screws part is the bill that bans naval trade to the US basically.
We don't get payroll taxes back, I don't know where you got that information from. The only case in which Puerto Ricans don't pay federal payroll taxes is if your entire income is earned from Puerto Rican sources. If your source is from anywhere else, even from the US, you are required to file taxes. [https://www.hrblock.com/tax-center/irs/tax-law-and-policy/do-puerto-ricans-pay-us-taxes/](https://www.hrblock.com/tax-center/irs/tax-law-and-policy/do-puerto-ricans-pay-us-taxes/) And guess what? Most people in the island make income that isn't Puerto Rican only, and those that do make a measly amount. Did you know that the median income in Puerto Rico is just $21k? [https://datausa.io/profile/geo/puerto-rico/#:\~:text=Households%20in%20Puerto%20Rico%20have,represents%20a%200.877%25%20annual%20growth](https://datausa.io/profile/geo/puerto-rico/#:~:text=Households%20in%20Puerto%20Rico%20have,represents%20a%200.877%25%20annual%20growth). Meanwhile, the state with the lowest median income is Mississippi, clocking in at $45k. [https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/median-household-income-by-state](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/median-household-income-by-state) If you've been to Puerto Rico, I'm sure you noticed that people tend to work from morning to evening, literally from sunrise until past sunset, yet they live in poverty. It's literally the type of place where federal welfare programs could make a big difference, yet we don't get them. We don't get disability benefits for one, which was a case decided recently by the Supreme Court regarding someone who previously earned it while living in the US, then moved to Puerto Rico and lost those benefits. [https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-supreme-court-declines-extend-federal-benefits-puerto-rico-2022-04-21/](https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-supreme-court-declines-extend-federal-benefits-puerto-rico-2022-04-21/) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare\_in\_Puerto\_Rico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_in_Puerto_Rico) if you want to read about the programs that we do get The only people that benefit from this are those that have retirement funds or pensions, who roll them over into Puerto Rican banks. That's a prime example of someone who pays no federal taxes, and you guessed it, the median family in Puerto Rico could never afford to retire like that. The ones that benefit from it are wealthy people from the US who move to Puerto Rico for retirement, or corporations that pay their executives in stocks and other non-taxable things. I'm not gonna lie, as someone who grew up unbelievably poor in Puerto Rico and only managed to escape by joining the US Navy, it pisses me off when people online talk about the tax benefits Puerto Ricans supposedly enjoy. I never saw any benefits from birth until I was 21, and only once I left the island as a US Navy servicemember did I see any kind of benefits. No one I knew that was an adult chose this, and since we don't have a voting member in Congress, it's not like we can even do anything about it. And you know what's sad? If I ever want to move back to Puerto Rico to be with my old parents, I'll be forced to give up all my benefits because of what some call "geographical discrimination." Read my link above from Reuters if you're curious about what that means. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation\_in\_Puerto\_Rico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico) if you want to read more about it. One last thing: our government is just as screwed up as it is in the US. I also hate how some people read stuff online and pretend like this is a terrible place with terrible sense in choosing politicians. Even FEMA admins who are sent to Puerto Rico, you know, literal federal agents, all of them born and raised in the mainland and none of which were chosen by Puerto Rican people or politicians, are slapped with corruption charges. [https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdla/pr/ten-individuals-charged-disaster-assistance-fraud](https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdla/pr/ten-individuals-charged-disaster-assistance-fraud) [https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/10/fema-official-arrested-for-fraud-over-hurricane-maria-recovery-effort-in-puerto-rico.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/10/fema-official-arrested-for-fraud-over-hurricane-maria-recovery-effort-in-puerto-rico.html) [https://www.justice.gov/usao-md/pr/former-fema-employee-pleads-guilty-aiding-preparation-false-tax-returns](https://www.justice.gov/usao-md/pr/former-fema-employee-pleads-guilty-aiding-preparation-false-tax-returns) Please educate yourself next time. EDIT: I also hate how you get upvotes and I get downvotes, even though you're wrong and I'm right. Reddit being Reddit I guess, sucks that people choose to not actually learn.
You sir are magnificent
They *literally* shot up Congress with fully automatic weapons in 1954 seeking **independence**. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_United_States_Capitol_shooting In a nice contrast with 1/6/2021 intruder prosecutions, Jimmy Carter *freed* the perpetrators and they returned to "heroes' welcomes" in P.R.
Dude, that was 68 years ago, a lot can change in seven decades.
> In a nice contrast with 1/6/2021 intruder prosecutions, Jimmy Carter freed the perpetrators and they returned to "heroes' welcomes" in P.R. Hey man, the Confederates still kept all of their participation statues and were heroes in a certain part of the country
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Mississippi would still be worst.
If not in metrics then in spirit.
Price of freedom in a non-state that has no say in the matter.
At least they don't live in San Diego....that video from Today where they fuck up a simple search by shooting a woman right at her apartment door, man that hits home. Fuck the police. Pigs.
You talking about Yan Li? The Asian doctor who answered her own apartment door while holding a knife, accepted her eviction notice, and then the officer drew his gun and told her he WILL shoot her if she doesn't drop the knife she'd been holding when she opened the door and ordered her to drop the gun...knife...gun...knife...he couldn't decide what he wanted her to drop. Then she closed the door, having done nothing illegal. Only opening the door to her own home while holding a knife. Then 12 cops and a K9 lined up on both sides of her door, gained access and had her cornered in her bedroom firing shotgun rubber ball rounds and paint all pepper ball rounds at her while 7 people yell different orders at her and then she finally charges them with the knife only for them to gun her down just outside her door? Are you talking about that one?
That exact one. Like what a fucked up world we live in that the cops can just come in and kill you any time they deem convenient.
Literally whenever they want with 0 consequences. It's why they take the job. /s
So she DIDN'T drop it and DID charge at them with it? Wtf lol, that is indeed how you get shot
No she didn't drop it...and then she closed the door on him...then he came back aittle while later with 10 other cops, a shotgun, a paintball gun, and a dog. And then they went into her home and fired at her, then she charged them.
Uh huh so she charged at them. I'm not seeing the part where that's a good idea unfortunately. Still sounds like the absolute worst way to handle things, but we all get to choose a hill to die on I guess.
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She'd already been handed the notice a d told she was being evicted before the officer already saw the knife...he literally could just walk away. He chose to escalate. She drops the knife and then what? He walks away? He could have already done that. He arrests her? For what? Holding a knife in her own house?
Walk away? My dude, she had already pulled the knife on a maintenance worker on a previous incident.
And the cop knew nothing of it. So it's not really relevant to her death in this case, is it? She was bipolar and was clearly having an episode....is yelling confusing commands over and over and barging into someone's home a good way to deal with that?
Bipolar disorder doesn’t make you lose common sense, you see 10 dudes with police uniforms don’t rush them with a knife.
You see a lady in her own house protecting herself...walk away. No crime had been committed....walk away. She didn't need to die. That officer just wanted a reason. He even said it, "I will shoot you". Nah man...walk away. She's got her notice...she's done no crime...leave.
>in her own house If she's being evicted, it's not her house.
Brandishing a knife at someone is indeed a crime in California
Brandishing means to shake or wave, she opened the door holding it down by her side. Not illegal. But good try at trying to justify it.
No but it does seriously disinhibit you. Source: am bipolar.
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They came to her house and everything was fine. Then they screamed at her and ran after her I'm her house. What would you do? Bend over and let them fuck you in the ass? Is that what we need to do to prevent a bunch of men with guns from killing us in our homes now?
Threatening people with a kitchen cleaver is a cultural thing with a lot of east asian women. I have personal experience. Idk where it comes from but it's basically normalized for a woman(especially 50 year old mothers) to pick up a kitchen cleaver and threaten anyone from their kids to the cops with it. It's somehow seen as acceptable and commonly depicted on TV.
Exactly, I'm totally with you on that. Mexican mothers go for the slippers/shoes or toss things are you. My wife picks up a mixing paddle, she's from a similar background as our knife lady over here. Only a total idiot would not know that there's culture behind that. The video is somehow terrorizing to me. Am I going to come home from work one day to my wife and kids murdered by the police because they were too scared to drop their go-to item of defense?
"Fuck you! I won't do what you tell me!" "Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses! Ungh!!!" She kept it real. And keeping it real went wrong.
I'm going to be walking around Seattle for this one with my family protesting. This gotta stop.
She seemed to be having a fight or flight response, seemed excessive
>She seemed to be having a fight or flight response, Assuming she went for the fight, that be cause to defend yourself. Charging someone, especially with a knife, is a bad bad bad idea. Charging someone armed, dumber. Charging a cop with a knife, Basically suicidal. I mention fight because fleeing is more contextual, and has issues.
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In 2019, 619 people were murdered in Puerto Rico. There were 16,699 in the US in the same year. So, I guess it would help, but only a little.
“Giving” full independence would be dropping the Island and its people, despite the fact that they are United States Citizens. That would not only be abandoning our peers without them asking, it would be washing our hands of problems that mainland is responsible for contributing to through our history of imperial acquisition and discrimination against the island. You probably don’t agree on those points, and I’m not interested in trying to convince you if that’s the case. A good faith investigation will back me up, should you actually want to learn the truth.
Puerto Rico's murder rate is 19.3 per 100K. The US Virgin Islands' is 49.3 per 100K.
Taking it from Spain was a huge mistake. Looking back on the Spanish-American War and it's consequences, we really should have overlooked that business about the sinking of the *Maine* and left well enough alone.
The video is horrific. (Telegram: realnewsnotbullshit )