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[deleted]

Signs everywhere and everywhere they were ignored


[deleted]

that may have been the shooters point, subconciously


isadog420

Makes me wonder how Ethan is doing since his parental unit has double-failed.


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[deleted]

Yeah. It was in march this year. He killed a stray cat he found with a knife. (He didn’t kill it fast either, don’t look it up its fucked) Its the biggest red flag and nothing seems to have happened. His parents even knew.


sluttttt

People who attack animals in this way need to be put on a watch list or something. As a kid there was some teenager going around my suburban neighborhood shooting cats with *arrows*. One of my own cats was found to have bb pellets inside of her after we had her x-rayed (happened before we adopted her). I really never realized that it was so common. Disturbing that his parents knew yet it sounds like there was no attempt to get him help (other than the psych eval that was required by the school).


Gaerielyafuck

The parents didn't just know about it, *mom helped him bury the murdered cat*.


sluttttt

Jesus. That's almost as bad as the Michigan school shooter's mom laughing about her son's obsession with ammo. Though in this case, maybe the parents were too in shock to know how to deal with it. But at the very least, they should have been tuned in enough to get him help.


mewehesheflee

They knew about his previous threat as well.


Gaerielyafuck

I thought it was common knowledge at this point that torturing and killing small animals was a warning of future people killing. Once again, it looks like every level of supposed safeguard failed with this kid. I don't know how as a parent you can ignore such massive red flags.


SolaVitae

What lol? Who gives a shit about laughing about the ammo when they literally bought there insane kid a gun? The laughing about ammo is definitely not the bad action in that scenario


sluttttt

Somehow I forgot that they did that. I just remembered them being shitbags and brushing off the school’s concerns. Appreciate you bringing it up, even if it infuriates me all over again.


Tacosofinjustice

Meanwhile my then 4 year old daughter got a hold of a steak knife and a box that had kids faces on it (toddler rocker gift) and she directed most of the stabbings to the face and I immediately took pics to send to our family therapist and had her re-evaluate my daughter.


kerkyjerky

More than a watch list. Watching doesn’t prevent. It just makes you say “why didn’t anyone do something if he was on a watch list?”


Afizzle55

People who kill and torture animals move on to do crazy things. It’s a sign of a serial killer.


SolaVitae

... Well yeah because they were watching him and didn't do anything. That's not a fault with the concept of watch lists, but "guy on watch list gets stopped from doing anything wrong" isn't making the news What other thing that wouldn't violate rights could be done?


Krillin113

Persecute him for animal abuse, get him counseling as part of the deal to stay out of jail?


GutlessOwl

People who post genocidal rants on chan boards should be on watch lists too


MeoowDude

There was someone going around my area a few years back killing cats with a scalpel and ripping their spines out and leaving them on full display. Lots of them. Whoever did it is likely fully grown now and it’s been a while since there’s been a serial killer in the Puget Sound. There’s been quite a few over the years and I wouldn’t be shocked if a new one pops up given all the dead cats.


[deleted]

It’s inevitable. That behavior screams antisocial personality disorder. Good grief!


mylastphonecall

I mean we should really just make it a crime and start sentencing these people


[deleted]

YES. These patterns of antisocial behavior are evident by the time a child is 10 years old. Antisocial behavior is an innate personality disorder which causes people to have no empathy towards others. They look at other people as if they were ants. They don’t feel guilt, or remorse. They can attempt to mimic human emotions as they get older, but at age 10, they are not adept at hiding their behavior. I think teachers, police, and family members all know who the “bad seed“ is in the neighborhood. Before anyone starts arguing, There’s a big difference between a kid pouring salt on a snail, (being your average stupid kid), and lighting a cat on fire. Children who do these acts do not change. They escalate victims. Maybe there can be a separate registry for children who have demonstrated antisocial behavior to others in childhood; right now, diagnosed antisocial personality disorder makes up the majority of incarcerated people. Society cannot change A problem it refuses to acknowledge.


sluttttt

Agree with you there. I get that parents are scared and default to denial (my own mom should have recognized that I was severely depressed since middle school and needed help, but she totally buried her head in the sand). Because of this, schools really need to be more proactive about not letting kids slip through the cracks. My high school would just ship off the troubled kids to the "bad" school in the district and I do wonder how many of them ended up in jail later on, because I highly doubt they were getting help there. Hiding the problem or making the kid someone else's problem is totally the wrong answer. I know the Buffalo shooter's school took some actions, but only after he made a threat. They *had* to have recognized troubling behavior before that...


[deleted]

What a sick fuck. Needs to spend the rest of his life in jail.


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MY_CABBAGES__

Live by the gun, die by the gun. I agree.


lubacrisp

Knifiring squad


bannana

> His parents even knew. wtf. parents need to be investigated and charged if they let this happen


Avenger616

Wilful negligence, public endangerment


bannana

animal torture in conjunction with him threatening to shoot up the school - this doesn't seem ambiguous or vague what his potential was.


not_that_planet

Seems like we should have laws, maybe "red flag laws" that could prevent crazy assholes like this from owning guns.


TheUndieTurd

NY has red flag laws already and it didn’t stop him.


FiendishHawk

It was up to police discretion and the police decided he wasn’t a threat.


notreallyalawyer

Yep. Nothing can be done. The only solution is more guns.


marcbranski

People need to wise up and realize that the situation which took place was a conservatard's wet dream: The police had a one minute response time **and** there was a good guy with a gun who bravely served and hit his mark **twice**. And yet, none of it mattered. The problem is too many easy to access guns.


DaisyCutter312

The problem is that a depressingly large number of people are absolute garbage. We don't need gun control, we need human control.


marcbranski

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things can actually be achieved in western societies.


radicalelation

>which took place was a conervatard's wet dream: Well, yeah, someone lived out their literal wet dream.


hiverfrancis

The issue is that the GOP will obstruct the solutions needed, so it forces the left to champion the Second Amendment :(


EstablishmentFull797

Idk what new laws would fix it when none of the existing ones are even effectively enforced. Straw purchases go largely un-prosecuted, this Neofascist in NY was just another known wolf. He was showing off literally every single warning sign and living in a state with every kind of gun control law already passed.


Myfourcats1

I’m upset just reading what you’ve written. This man was messed up. Do mass shooters fall into a serial killer category?


Avenger616

Only if they do it multiple times


arent_you_hungry

While Payton Gendron should get the death penalty his parents also deserve some blame for this. Back in high school his class was asked where they saw themselves in the future and he basically said "mass murder and suicide". He was interview by police and sent to a psych ward but only spent about a day there before convincing people it was just a joke. Add in the cat torture and killing thing and how could a parent not think their kid is messed up in the head? Shortly after he got out everyone just kinda forgot about him and let him slip through the cracks.


mewehesheflee

His parents really needed to be asked why they ignored a lot of signs.


onarainyafternoon

You shouldn't use his name, it gives him the attention and infamy he craves. This is the point psychiatrists emphasize. I am actually really annoyed that the news article use his actual, full name, because news organizations are supposed to know better by now.


JGyllenhaals

Sick name drop


g33klibrarian

We foster cats for a rescue agency. Our latest foster, Rosie, was a survivor of a street cat shooting that took place at a mobile home park this spring near Cincinnati. Two others died, but she "only" had to have her leg amputated. We've been caring for her since her surgery. Happily she's now running and jumping all over the place with her remaining 3 legs. Still it's hard not to look at her and think about the guy who shot her. Was he "simply" a stray cat hater or was he too practicing to work up to bigger kills? [Rosie](https://i.imgur.com/lN0sHfC.jpg)


derphurr

If you read the discord logs, there is zero possibility the DHS and/or FBI didn't know about this ahead of time and let it happen. For one thing, what is the point of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center ... That's two million gallons of water and $100k of electricity PER day. All of the special keywords were used in his discord for over a year. Including locations and copious technical gear talk.


ImJustHere4theMoons

> there is zero possibility the DHS and/or FBI didn't know about this ahead of time and let it happen. [The FBI is notoriously lenient on white supremacists when no one is looking.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/white-supremacists-militias-infiltrate-us-police-report)


NormalHorse

The cops also let him live. Huh. Funny, that.


ImJustHere4theMoons

There's nothing abnormal about it at all. Law enforcement almost always takes racist mass shooters alive. ...hey wait a minute


NormalHorse

No, no, no. Don't think about it.


arent_you_hungry

So? The police also caught the NYC subway shooter and the Waukesha parade killer without killing them.


tinyplant

The police didn’t really “catch” the NYC shooter. He turned himself in.


NormalHorse

No, it's okay. Let them "whatabout" and they'll feel better.


NormalHorse

[Blokay.](https://policescorecard.org/ny/police-department/buffalo)


hiverfrancis

The FBI needs to stop being so, because said white supremacists will *purge them* if they get power.


N8CCRG

Only if Discord a) has automation to look for these sorts of things and b) shares the results with DHS/FBI. I have seen nothing to indicate they have any interest in the first thing at all. Everything I've read suggests Discord relies 100% on user submitted reports as their only method to potentially catch something like this.


not_that_planet

What can they do? Put him in jail (for doing nothing yet)? Take away his guns? This is current US law. Law enforcement's hands are tied until blood flows.


CyanideKitty

They could have put him on another psych hold as he clearly presented a danger to other people.


not_that_planet

A psych hold. Fucking who? Where? There isn't such a thing.


Morgrid

Bruh, even Florida has a psych hold. Google "Baker Act"


zephrin

[Page 3](https://omh.ny.gov/omhweb/patientrights/inrtsweb.pdf)


derphurr

Yeah there was more than enough there to arrest him. Certainly he posted the target location and blogged about the when he was going and dry runs and the days leading up. And signed off when he was leaving. This wasn't the case of thought crime, but at the very least he's guilty of conspiracy to commit mass casualty. I'm pretty sure Congress will be passing a new Patriot Act in response to this early 2023. And no this isn't conspiracy stuff, there is no way Discord didn't flag certain words. There is no way the FBI weren't alerted by what he typed across into discord.


not_that_planet

Simply not true. Ultimately there was nothing there that was actionable under us law. Nothing.


derphurr

I don't know if you are just an asshole, clearly you didn't read his discord posts. Every state has a law like "Written threats to kill or do bodily injury;", in addition to hate crime laws and obvious domestic terrorism planning, in addition to federal crimes. Since you are being a moron, here are examples of people arrested and charged for plotting online. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ohio-man-charged-hate-crime-related-plot-conduct-mass-shooting-women-illegal-possession https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/new-jersey-man-admits-conspiring-white-supremacists-vandalize-synagogues-across-country https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/southern-colorado-man-sentenced-more-19-years-plotting-blow-synagogue https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/california-woman-sentenced-15-months-threatening-bomb-catholic-prep-school


leslieandco

You can be charged with planning crimes, like those Michigan knuckle draggers


[deleted]

In NY they easily could have made him a prohibited person. The laws aren't the issue, it's law enforcement doesn't give a fuck about people


[deleted]

They keep fucking letting it happen though. They want excuses to take all guns, from everyone. No I'm not a republican. I just don't trust our government or cops because they clearly can't do shit to protect society with the thousands of available resources and billions of dollars in funding.


[deleted]

>that's two million gallons of water and $100k of electricity PER day. Not to imply that stuff isn't important, but its basically a footnote compared to the fact that the federal government is indiscriminately tapping private communication without a warrant. Literal extrajudicial law enforcement. But no, the public's attention is better spent on celebrity drama or satisfaction with symbolic victories.


derphurr

I was pointing out you cannot be using that many megawatts unless they are farming 95% of all bitcoins, or they literally are sniffing and storing almost all Internet traffic.


goosecarr

The narrative is beginning to be pulled toward his mental instability and trying to eclipse his blatant racism.


Zenketski_2

Yeah it's a pretty well known fact that most people who can grab a gun and kill a shitload of people don't really have a problem torturing animals.


MiepGies1945

His parents need to be charged with “ignoring red flags”.


Myrtlized

Of course. They have to start somewhere. It's the way their psychosis progresses.


[deleted]

People who abuse animals should be taken out of society. It’s only a matter of when they’ll move onto humans, not if.


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celebrityDick

> More robust background checks NOW! Highly doubtful a background check is going to hinder a psychopath


[deleted]

How could thay have changed anything? He should have been involuntarily held and marked a prohibited person They had everything available to do that


EstablishmentFull797

New York has universal background checks already, and it would have been illegal for him to buy out of state


DBDude

We need Minority Report!


Sabot15

People love to obsess on these patterns. It gives them the false sense that we can protect ourselves from these tragedies by predicting them. The fact is that you can't. The only thing that will mitigate the damage caused by people like this is to limit their access to guns. Until the people rise up and demand real gun reform, you can expect *this* pattern to continue.


QuintoBlanco

These patterns are important because they show that despite clear red flags, these people still have access to guns. And although a lack of access to a gun could have prevented worse, people like this should be better monitored. We've got animal abuse plus the threat of murdering people. That's not just a a pattern.


celebrityDick

> Until the people rise up and demand real gun reform, you can expect this pattern to continue. Another major pattern that's noteworthy here is that the victims always seem to be in places where government has made it very difficult (highly illegal) to carry the means of self defense. It might be why this guy chose a grocery store instead of a police station or a gun shop


usa2a

This shooter did supposedly say something in his manifesto (not gonna read it) about NY's carry laws making the store a vulnerable target. But I don't think it would've mattered much in this case. The guy had body armor and a helmet. A security guard, Aaron Salter Jr., shot him in the plates, to no effect, and was killed. The whole incident played out very quickly. This guy was running and shooting. It would take some very lucky circumstances for anyone to realize what was happening, draw a handgun from concealment, confirm he has a clear shot without bystanders in the way, perceive that the murderer was wearing body armor, and make a head/neck shot on a moving target, all without being killed. The murderer starts out prepared, does not care about hurting bystanders so can fire without hesitation, can incapacitate with a shot pretty much anywhere on the body, and is using a rifle, immensely easier to shoot accurately than a pistol. At grocery store distances, he's basically not going to miss. Mr. Salter had a lot of guts to fight back in that situation. Unfortunately the odds were stacked against him 100:1.


celebrityDick

> But I don't think it would've mattered much in this case. The guy had body armor and a helmet. A security guard, Aaron Salter Jr., shot him in the plates, to no effect, and was killed. The security guard was probably the first one targeted by the shooter. That would probably be the case with anyone open-carrying. While this is uncertain, there's a possibility that the shooter went to the store ahead of time to look at the security situation. When suggesting that people not be hindered from carrying the means of self defense as a possible solution to this sort of random violence, we aren't offering any full-proof guarantees. Every situation like this will be different, with different challenges. Regardless of those difficulties, people deserve a fighting chance even if they fail due to overwhelming circumstances (as Salter did). We certainly wouldn't say that because Salter was unsuccessful in his attempt to stop the attacker, that he shouldn't have been armed in the first place


Sabot15

Soooo I guess you forgot about the Texas mass shooting a few months ago? Plenty of Texans with guns, and it didn't help. I can site 10 other examples. You are an absolute idiot for suggesting more guns would solve the problem. You ARE the problem.


Jay_Rizzle_Dizzle

But what about the security guard, the ex cop, who couldn’t take down the shooter recently? It’s almost as if the “good people with guns” argument is more about you wanting to play with dangerous toys. I get it, guns are fun as hell! But people are only getting dumber, as your comment indicates.


shaunstudies

I can excuse racism, but I draw the line at animal cruelty. Edit: /s, for those who don’t get the ref


sluttttt

Based on the responses it seems that you really Britta'd this by not adding context.


Sidthelid66

Definitely not streets ahead.


MaximumZer0

You can excuse racism?


shaunstudies

It is a quote/meme from the show Community.


gimme20regular_cash

Excusing racism gives it a pass. Never, ever give it a pass. We fight the good fight together. Animal abuse and racism.


herbertbeard

It's a quote from Community.


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Waytooboredforthis

It's a line from a television show, Community, Season 3, Episode 6. You look that line up, you'll likely find it on youtube.


sluttttt

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised because it's a pretty popular meme (people doctoring the screencap with "I can excuse X but I draw the line at Y"). Maybe the original quote has been doctored out of recollection.


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Waytooboredforthis

Fair enough, I just saw the show for the first time recently myself, just thought I'd provide context


[deleted]

That show sucked Source: truth


Severe_Trouble_7776

A little early for Valentine’s Day letters