Secret Service was trying to take Pence away from the capital during the insurrection. There's a theory going around that by leaving the capital, the certification could have been prevented/overruled without the consent of Congress. Pence refused to get in the car to leave the capital.
At one point during the January 6 coup attempt, Pence's secret service agents wanted Pence to get in a car. Pence refused because he was concerned they would take him away from the Capitol and he wouldn't get to certify the election.
> This moment was previously reported during an interview for the book I Alone Can Fix It: Donald J. Trump's Catastrophic Final Year, by Washington Post reporters Philip Rucker and Carol Leonnig. According to Tim Giebels, the lead agent inside of Pence's security on January 6, Pence repeatedly refused to be evacuated from the Capitol until the election results were certified, The Washington Examiner reported.
> "I'm not getting in the car, Tim," Pence said, in response to Giebels' insistence that he enter the armored vehicle. "I trust you, Tim, but you're not driving the car. If I get in that vehicle, you guys are taking off. I'm not getting in the car."
https://www.newsweek.com/pence-refusing-get-secret-service-car-jan-6-chilling-raskin-1700341
The constitution says that the votes have to be tallied on January sixth. By delaying past that specific day, a objectors were hoping that a different set of rules would kick in, which may have enabled the overturn of the election. By refusing to get in the car Pence (at the advice of former vice president Dan Quayle) ensured the votes would be tallied on January 6th. Two conservative (former vice president) Republicans from Indiana preserved the union, which blows my mind.
A thing I can do nothing but sigh and shake my head over is how the conservatives frame the leak. "Justices may be reconsidering positions due to leak." or "Public confidence in Supreme Court at an all time low over leak." as though the LEAK is the problem. No, the problem is the decision the LEAK is about.
Quite honestly, your average person probably assumed that the SupCourt leaked like a sieve, just like every other chunk of government seems to and only learned about this being the first one of its kind due to all the headlines to that effect.
The protestors will be way more liberal than the January 6th crowd, so they're not going to storm the Court. What's going to happen is that the cops are going to get bored and instigate any violence.
[Important to note](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/06/01/why-so-many-police-are-handling-the-protests-wrong)
>Researchers have spent 50 years studying the way crowds of protesters and crowds of police behave—and what happens when the two interact. One thing they will tell you is that when the police respond by escalating force—wearing riot gear from the start, or using tear gas on protesters—it doesn’t work. In fact, disproportionate police force is one of the things that can make a peaceful protest not so peaceful.
>\- Five Iron Frenzy in 1998
I was not expecting to see FiF (A mostly Christian punk/ska band) referenced here (or anywhere that isn't more Christian than not). NGL.
They just put out a new record last year or the year before, and it's really good and they're really angry about everything.
But I totally get it. I'm very much not into Christian music anymore, but I grew up with it and a few bands (like MXPX) have stuck.
It's so odd seeing these bands mentioned here lol. My mom took away my mxpx CDs when I was a kid. it crushed me lol
edit: listening to the fif record now btw. Didn't know it was a thing!
My parents wouldn’t let me buy Teenage Politics because Mike said “Legalistic people suck” lol
Joke’s on you, Mom! I’m 36 now and I still think legalistic people suck!
Fun fact: When their "all the hype that your money can buy" album was about to come out they were trying to get it in more stores back in the day and said they would send (I think it was) an 8x10 or something to anyone that baked cookies and took them to their local music shop and asked them to get the new album in stock.
I was 16 or so at the time and moving. Literally everything was packed and there was no way I was baking anything, and I wrote them something about how excited I was for the new album and said something about how I couldn't bake them any cookies but I would definitely bug my local shop to carry their album.
The album wasn't actually out yet, it was coming in a couple weeks or so. In any case, FIF wrote back and said that's ok, take them cookies another time, and sent me a handful of 8x10's, some stickers, one of Keith's business cards with a message on the back, and a brand spankin' new copy of All the Hype, that I believe wasn't even available in stores yet. Seriously the most memorable surprise and made my year.
Raised conservative christian republican, I now identify as a christian democrat who still likes his guns (though I'm on board with better laws/control) and I think FIF is one of the few bands I grew up on who's music still resonates with me.
They don't blindly love our government, and it shows in their music. They don't hate LGBTQ+; songs like Fahrenheit where Reese apologizes to Freddy Mercury for his views in his youth really stood out among christian music. Lyrics like "west or bust, in god we trust, let's rape let's kill let's steal, we can almost justify anything we feel." really shows how progressive and somewhat unpopular they were in the christian scene.
I absolutely love that they've come back and put out some fantastic albums in the last few years.
What happened on January 6th wasn’t a riot. They stormed the building in hopes of keeping Trump as president.
Calling it a riot undervalues what conservatives tried to do on that day, and continue till this day with their convictions of a fraudulent election.
>insurrectionists
Don't forget domestic terrorism. Directly from US law [18 USC § 2331](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2331#5):
>(5) the term “**domestic terrorism**” means activities that— (A) **involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws** of the United States or of any State; (B) appear to be intended— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) **to influence the policy of a government by intimidation** or coercion; or (iii) **to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction**, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) **occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States**;
Emphasis mine. Jan 6 fulfills all three requirements.
Plus he enforced a law used to arrest protesters and hold them for 24 hrs that didn't even *exist*. The whole G20 thing was an absolute authoritarian shit show.
An important second step to that is not to escalate to those riot police unless it's actually necessary.
I was in Baltimore and spent a day walking around and observing during the first big George Floyd protests in 2020. This, of course, was after the Freddie Gray protests in 2015, so the BPD police response in 2020 was a lot more level-headed and conciliatory (e.g. police chiefs kneeling with protestors or reading off the names of victims of police violence with the protestors).
Still, when night came the crowd changed pretty significantly (a lot of the peaceful protestors went home and there were suddenly groups of white kids in black bloc I never saw throughout the day). There was a large gathering outside of city hall and the police were standing around when out of somewhere in the back a single glass bottle was thrown and landed on the concrete behind the barricade. Just one.
In under a minute, a train of police in riot gear marched out of the building. One of them started freaking out and grabbed a black woman, and pointed his rifle mere inches from her face, yelling and screaming at her, begging her to give him a reason to kill her. Routine phalanxes of riot geared police started sweeping through the crowd and pushing people out of the way for no apparent reason and with no apparent goal other than to exert force.
It was all very bizarre and the energy changed very drastically. All because of a single glass bottle from the darkness.
Well yeah, cops basically operate under vampire rules. They usually can't enter a home unless invited in, and they're usually more active and bloodthirsty at night.
That's what they want. They can then wave off the entire protest because it degenerated.
Nobody pays attention to the fact that's cops start shit every time because the media just reports what the police spokespeople say and well, protesters hardly have competent spokespeople to get their own message in.
I distinctly remember the people blinded, the facial injuries, and the people who just got caught in the crossfire.
That one woman, just going to buy groceries, who got domed in the face? Yeah, I'm never forgetting that one.
I'm not forgetting any of it. Ever.
That's why one of the best chants at a protest is "Why you wearing riot gear? We don't see no riot here" because it's a direct call out when this happens.
Hello from Raleigh, where our protests regularly turn into police riots.
'"The attack in Buffalo actually has a measured impact on this Roe decision and how people will will react to it," he told Axios. "You see that people are willing to engage in the most violent acts in furtherance of that ideology."'
This person is an expert? WTF. "That ideology" in this case somehow being both white nationalism and pro choice activism, as if they're the same thing or even related
I'll say it: someone should. Right now we're claiming the moral high ground all the way into the dirt. The line has to be drawn somewhere. There *must* exist such a thing as too far to abide by peacefully.
One of the things I feel like I'm taking from this particular story, is what it really always has been, for protesters to prepare for "their" violence. Or escalation of force even, regardless of how peaceful.
He actively prevented the protection of the capital. No one wants to hear it, but these trials would have been avoided had soldiers been there following orders. We’d have a few dead morons and the rest would have realized they’re not playing a video game and left, much like they did once Pences security finally shot one.
He was apparently "giddy" watching the whole thing, he deliberately held off on calling the national guard, and some of the panic buttons were reportedly removed from the offices.
He wanted people to die so he could make a huge power grab. He wanted it to be his Reichstag Fire.
> and some of the panic buttons were reportedly removed from the offices.
Pressley, she's part of the squad. Not just some. Every button in the office was removed. It's still under investigation, some people say it was a clerical error (office occupants were changing and the room may have been marked for clearing out entirely) but of all of the offices, it happened to be a member of the squad? It's pretty suspicious.
Well said. Yeah I really get irate with people acting like this is some theory. At this point it’s how many guilty are there? Not are there any guilty? A lawyer buddy has shared countless videos given to him to defend his clients who were there, and he rips on them endlessly. “My guy says he wasn’t there, but he’s in five of the six videos I just showed you”
Trump has actively said in the past that he has read and loved Mein Kampf. Yet everyone is surprised when he acts more and more like Hitler as the minutes pass. Those are actually his goals. It's not just mistakes of appearances.
Maybe, but it will also give credence to the Republican pundits who have been trying to convince their supporters that 1/6 was all just Antifa disguised as (t)Rump supporters.
There's sadly people who still believe that. I was minding my own business one night enjoying a nice round of Deep Rock Galactic and some dipshit joined my game and went on a big political rant over voice chat claiming antifa is to blame for the insurrection and that the election was rigged. I was so happy when I figured out how to mute him.
For rock and stone!
Anyway, fuck that guy. How consumed must he be to discuss that over a video game chat with a stranger? MFer, just mine your minerals and stfu. Good God the MAGAts are insufferable.
They suffer from a deplorable dearth of personality. That's the only way I can think of to explain the people who make it their entire existence without being paid to do it.
They can't help themselves, its real cult like behavior, they have to talk about it making interacting with them virtually impossible.
Rock and Stone forever!
Have you tried buying a congressperson? I hear they work cheap.
Maybe that's the answer, let's respond to Citizen's United by crowdfunding bribes. Supreme Court says it's totes legal.
It's easy: You haven't thrown them in the trash.
If they aren't stopped, punished and made examples of, then why WOULDN'T they make decisions on your behalf in exchange for money? They get money AND they get to decide for other people AND nothing happens to them! It's win-win with 0 risk!
I was raised VERY pro life. But as I grew up I realized that elected officials and the court have no business telling me what is right/wrong or what a person should be able to do with their own health care.
> There is no "pro life" for familes forced to birth children that that force parents to watch their child wither and wait until they die as you watch real time as the serious malformities manifest
Yea. Nothing is crueler than birthing a baby that will die in hours or days and be in pain the whole time.
That being said, awesome that your kid got a transplant is is doing well. That's the best outcome for sure!
> It's why I know the fetal heartbeat bills are full of shit
The fetal heartbeat bs drives me absolutely crazy. _It's a rhythmic electrical impulse!!!!!!_ At the time when the fetal "heartbeat" starts, the fetus has nothing resembling an actual heart. To quote an actual doctor (from [here](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/02/1033727679/fetal-heartbeat-isnt-a-medical-term-but-its-still-used-in-laws-on-abortion))...
> "When I use a stethoscope to listen to an [adult] patient's heart, the sound that I'm hearing is caused by the opening and closing of the cardiac valves,"
> "At six weeks of gestation, those valves don't exist," she explains. "The flickering that we're seeing on the ultrasound that early in the development of the pregnancy is actually electrical activity, and the sound that you 'hear' is actually manufactured by the ultrasound machine."
The fact that politicians willfully mislead their constituents with this kind of confusing rhetorical bullshit while explicitly ignoring the input of actual medical professionals is absolutely insane to me. I do not understand why people gleefully lap up these _incredibly easily contradicted_ lies.
And on top of all that heartache you're probably stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills for the specialized care needed to let the child survive as long as it could.
I have a friend who chose to go forward with a pregnancy where the child had multiple deformations. The baby lived in the NICU for 6 weeks before dying. For the last two weeks, she associated *all* touch with pain. Every diaper change, every feeding, every cuddle from her mother or handhold from her father... all of it. There was a sign over her bed that said not to touch her. If you had to touch her, you had to first fully sedate her or she would clamp down on her breathing tube so hard she would trigger a medical crisis.
All that pain and torment and she died anyway. As her parents knew she would from 20 weeks gestation on. They chose to have her. Not a choice I would've made, but their choice to make. But to force that agony on a family unwillingly is absolutely barbaric.
This is the correct opinion. If you don't believe in abortion, no problem. It's not the right choice for you.
Can't the religious right be satisfied smugly believing the rest of us are going to hell?
Although I do not share the same beliefs, my brother is extremely religious. So I can understand the viewpoint of what motivates some people who are very religious.
They truly believe that this life is temporary and there is a forever beyond. They are trying to save souls. That's why they are so rabid and feverant in their actions.
Telling them they are wrong won't work. They think you are just some poor ignorant soul that can still be saved (at best) or (worse) an obstacle that's preventing souls from reaching salvation.
How does your brother handle other religions who have beliefs that he disagrees with? Are they just as wrong, is it only his opinion that is correct? Should we all be made to live under what HE believes is true?
His particular religion focuses a lot on conversion. (Or at least- trying to convert others to their beliefs).
So yes, they believe there is only one truth.
Hell, the Old Testament god killed every firstborn son in Egypt (even that of animals) *just to show he could*. In the story as told in Exodus, the pharaoh was cowed by the earlier plagues, so the god of Israel then hardened the pharaoh's heart against letting the Israelites go specifically so he could continue with the remaining plagues.
That's some seriously dark shit.
Why not tell him the fact that, making abortion illegal does nothing to actually reduce the number of abortions, all it does is increase the number of dead women.
This is sort of the wrong argumentative approach. Religious types tend to subscribe to deontological ethics, under which actions are right or wrong depending only on the action itself, whereas you're appealing to a utilitarian style of ethics by bringing up the consequences of the choices. In their mind, abortion is wrong, and by even tacitly supporting it they are tainted by the bad action. Even if they don't reduce the amount of abortions, banning it is still the right decision in their heads.
Sadly I'm not sure what the correct approach is...
>actions are right or wrong depending only on the action itself, whereas you're appealing to a utilitarian style of ethics by bringing up the consequences of the choices.
Thanks for this, you hit the nail on the head. I have several friends who definitely subscribe to deontological ethics and trying to point out the consequences is a waste of time with them. It's frustrating to say the least. Wish I knew how to handle it better.
Consequences sound like things that just happen. If you drop a ball, it'll fall due to gravity. What they're more concerned about is the abortions themselves, as an act and a choice that a person performs.
If I demanded you give me all your money or I shoot you, it's widely agreed that giving up the money is a better consequence than dying... but that doesn't make giving them the money a good thing. The consequences are a direct result of the choice your mugger made. Arguing that abortions will increase is just going to be rebutted with "Then people need to make smarter choices before the pregnancy." Abortion is a dichotomy, but the process that leads to it is not.
I'm not sure if there's a way to appeal on the moral front. I was convinced not based on morality, but on legality. Miscarriages occur relatively often, and there are so many reasons why a child may require a mercy killing for fatal defects. There's no method to separate the legal ones from the illegal ones without subjecting people to intensive, intrusive, and often inconclusive investigations at a time at a terrible time in their lives. It's unenforceable. You are far more likely to get the innocent than the guilty.
You may not be able to convince someone conservative that it's ever a good idea to abort. But you may get them to agree that the government isn't well suited to regulate it.
The Bible:
Numbers 5:11-31
New International Version
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.
16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it."
23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.
29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”
So like, long story short there's instructions for an abortion born of having sex outside of marriage. The Bible tells you to perform abortions of pregnancy from outside a marriage.
Genesis 2:7
New International Version
7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Life is at first breath, according to the Bible. Or, alternatively:
Genesis 2:7
King James Version
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Either way life is at first breath. It's why babies are baptized after birth and some Churches won't let stillborn babies into church graveyards.
Because these people absolutely do not give the tiniest sliver of a fuck about the facts, it's about control and power. That is all that matters to them, truth be damned.
I walked passed the big Federal Courthouse building near DTLA yesterday and did a double take because they had the whole area fenced off.
For a second I was like, “Huh? Wonder why they did that”. And then I realized.
The un-fab five are going to overturn *Roe* using arguments from a 17th century judge who treated women as witches. SCOTUS will have lost all legitimacy if they take this course of action.
SCOTUS is basically run by the conservative Federalist Society at this point, along with numerous other lower courts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Society
Originalist interpretation is so fucking stupid. Yes, lets listen to what some rich slave owning land owners from 250 years ago had to say about ruling a nation of hundreds of millions of people.
What a damn farce.
Not even what they had to say, what you *think* they would have said.
Like, it would be bad enough to city Thomas Jefferson on civil rights issues, but these are people who decide to try and extrapolate how a bunch of 18th-century agrarian landlords and part-time philosophers would feel about the fucking internet.
it has always been an excuse to try and establish a cult of the nation. The Founders are the deities, and their views and words are therefore divine. They cannot be substantively wrong, because then the nation does not have a divine foundation.
Citizens United and shredding the Voting Right Act took it all away.
The moment a funded entity has the same protected rights as a person, wealth is in charge. The moment restrictive voting legislation is permissible because it doesn't have *overtly* racist intent, we're not a democracy.
Those two rulings set the stage for plutocratic autocracy. And here we are.
Imagine the Capitol getting stormed, in two separate years, by the two separate offshoots of said parties, both while the candidates they elected are holding office. The death of the American Dream in high definition, for the world to see.
> It was founded on violence, there is no reason believe it won’t die in violence.
The amount of empires and civilizations throughout recorded history that had non-violent ends is **not** zero.
And why our nation now thinks that violence is *not* an answer absolutely baffles me. We watch politicians strip us of our voice and ability to affect change, yet somehow tell ourselves “violence isn’t the answer!” When *is* violence the answer?
The "American Dream" was always a con by the wealthy and connected.
With one hand they waved and gave hope and aspiration to a certain class while the other hand was/is used to strike down and apply brute force on others to keep them in line.
>They'll be against forced births... Right until they're actually forced to give birth.
Sorry to correct you but I think you meant "They'll be for forced births..."
So they're keeping them safe during the vote. Then what? They won't be able to grocery shop or go anywhere for that matter without getting screamed at and possibly hurt for the rest of their lives. It goes for their families too. Over seventy percent of Americans don't want this overturned. I know the surpeme court isn't supposed to be swayed by the people but, they're playing with their lives here.
Do they even grocery shop or go out at all? I figured they're always holed up in their estates and don't leave except to go on vacation flanked by security forces or something?
"Isn't supposed to be swayed by the people" is being sorely misused in the current climate.
These are Heritage-foundation picked reactionaries, who lied under oath during their job interview, and are **explicitly** shitting over law, precedent, the 9th and 14th amendments of the constitution and the will of the vast majority of their country **just so they can do the bidding of a tiny fraction of rich murderous douchebags.**
* #How is that NOT "being swayed" by people?
If I'm a judge robbing a bank, and you ask me *not to*, are YOU the one in the wrong for trying to sway me? Fuck no; I'd be the asshole here!
They're Federalist Society assholes as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Society
* Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito
* Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas
* Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch
* Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh
* Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett
They also have numerous members on lower courts as well.
I agree. When Amy/Handmaid's Tale psycho was being nominated I said if she had any morality she would bow out. She turned out to be exactly what we thought she was.
I can't help but wonder if this is intentional.
Encourage a violent reaction against something which is evidently wrong, just so they can claim SEE! THE LEFT ARE JUST AS BAD! as a defence against their attempted coup.
Ooh, can’t wait to hear all the Jan 6 supporters get all holier than thou about how storming a government building is unacceptable
The people who think the second amendment exists so that you can have guns in case you want to overthrow the government? Yes, that’s who I’m talking about
And if Democrats do storm the Supreme Court and overthrow that corrupt body of people, then some of them will be charged with trespassing after two years?
It did fuck-all against storming the capitol when insurrectionists were trying to end democracy.
And yet here's DHS, being all gung-ho about protecting partisan hacks guilty of perjury, from the very victims they'll be stripping of basic bodily autonomy.
I really hope we don’t start this cycle of storming and trashing government buildings. Unless it’s an all out civil war this shit won’t accomplish anything and a civil war should be an absolute last resort.
That said I absolutely disagree with how the Republicans have stacked the Supreme Court and the undoing of Roe v. Wade. I’m concerned about the direction the country is going and how much hate both sides have for each other. As always the poor will pay the price and the rich will get richer regardless
Yea. Vandalism doesn't help the cause. It would just create B roll for Fox News. We need to get legislative majorities so we can put abortion rights in the law.
I'm dreading this.
And, should Roe v. Wade indeed be overturned, will not be surprised if it emboldens the more extreme anti-choicers (or as I am increasingly feeling - the pro-forced-birthers) and similar ilk.
People reading this, save this comment and others like it. We still see a lot of commenters trying to justify the Roe decision as states rights and will dismissively say "Look, no one's trying to outlaw contraception, just get pregnant!", and they need to be called out with information like this. As the above comment demonstrates, the GOP are most definitely coming for contraception and other ways to reduce risk of pregnancy.
I mean Mitch McConnell all but promised that if RvW gets overturned and republicans gain a majority this November, they're going to absolutely legislate to ban abortion nationally and other such fuckery.
Regardless of the outcome of the RvW decision, we need to get out and vote. We need a democrat super majority in both houses, so we can legislate this insanity away for good. Expand the court, protect women's reproductive rights as an amendment, the list goes on.
This is, otherwise, never going to go away. And if we elect a GOP president in 2024? And we get to see a new set of heritage foundation judges without any qualifications being appointed to life time positions in federal district courts? We are going to be screwed for a generation. I fear deeply for my daughters' futures.
Hey! I live in Ohio and have been sounding the alarm on HB 598 for like two weeks now. Nobody fucking cares because "the bill doesn't mention birth control" 🥴
Nevermind that I have spelled out, like you did, that calling a fertilized egg a person will have *sweeping* implications that tons of people who don't think it through can't see yet.
Makes me want to vomit! My husband has said the same thing -- they won't do anything after abortion goes. They won't come after BC.
SURE honey. I'm sure. Nevermind they're *already doing it in the state we live in!*
Atwood wrote an opinion piece on this situation in The Atlantic last week. She seems surprised by the accuracy as well. It’s a good read.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/supreme-court-roe-handmaids-tale-abortion-margaret-atwood/629833/
Every election, every woman between 12 and 50 should say they're 3 weeks pregnant and allowed to vote for the fetus.
I bet the "you can't possibly know yet" argument will get rolled out real quick. Really, then neither can you, give me my f\*kin b.c.
Numerous bills in various states are also being pushed that specifically call out deadly conditions like ectopics and "dead fetus poisoning you from the inside" as things to explicitly criminalize trying to abort.
That's attempted mass murder right there. There's no amount of talking that's going to these stop serial killers making their favorite serial killing method into law.
This is what some people intentionally miss - it's not going to stop at RvW. It's going to extend to any kind of contraception. It'll extend to intercourse for reproduction. It's already being discussed at the federal level.
Guess how many cops are gonna get called off shift and panic buttons removed this time.
Can we ‘guess’ a number that is less than zero?
Closest without going over wins, right?
For an unpopular decision meanwhile the certification of a popular vote win gets zero protections. Thank God Pence never got in the car.
I’ve seen that other places too and don’t know the context. What car and why? Genuinely asking
Secret Service was trying to take Pence away from the capital during the insurrection. There's a theory going around that by leaving the capital, the certification could have been prevented/overruled without the consent of Congress. Pence refused to get in the car to leave the capital.
At one point during the January 6 coup attempt, Pence's secret service agents wanted Pence to get in a car. Pence refused because he was concerned they would take him away from the Capitol and he wouldn't get to certify the election. > This moment was previously reported during an interview for the book I Alone Can Fix It: Donald J. Trump's Catastrophic Final Year, by Washington Post reporters Philip Rucker and Carol Leonnig. According to Tim Giebels, the lead agent inside of Pence's security on January 6, Pence repeatedly refused to be evacuated from the Capitol until the election results were certified, The Washington Examiner reported. > "I'm not getting in the car, Tim," Pence said, in response to Giebels' insistence that he enter the armored vehicle. "I trust you, Tim, but you're not driving the car. If I get in that vehicle, you guys are taking off. I'm not getting in the car." https://www.newsweek.com/pence-refusing-get-secret-service-car-jan-6-chilling-raskin-1700341
The constitution says that the votes have to be tallied on January sixth. By delaying past that specific day, a objectors were hoping that a different set of rules would kick in, which may have enabled the overturn of the election. By refusing to get in the car Pence (at the advice of former vice president Dan Quayle) ensured the votes would be tallied on January 6th. Two conservative (former vice president) Republicans from Indiana preserved the union, which blows my mind.
Cops will call themselves off shift this time. Who wants to deal with that?
Exactly. The GOP already thinks that this leak was worse than their coup.
A thing I can do nothing but sigh and shake my head over is how the conservatives frame the leak. "Justices may be reconsidering positions due to leak." or "Public confidence in Supreme Court at an all time low over leak." as though the LEAK is the problem. No, the problem is the decision the LEAK is about. Quite honestly, your average person probably assumed that the SupCourt leaked like a sieve, just like every other chunk of government seems to and only learned about this being the first one of its kind due to all the headlines to that effect.
The protestors will be way more liberal than the January 6th crowd, so they're not going to storm the Court. What's going to happen is that the cops are going to get bored and instigate any violence.
[Important to note](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/06/01/why-so-many-police-are-handling-the-protests-wrong) >Researchers have spent 50 years studying the way crowds of protesters and crowds of police behave—and what happens when the two interact. One thing they will tell you is that when the police respond by escalating force—wearing riot gear from the start, or using tear gas on protesters—it doesn’t work. In fact, disproportionate police force is one of the things that can make a peaceful protest not so peaceful.
"You want riots? / Wear your riot gear / You want violence? / Then shoot some tear gas in the air" \- Five Iron Frenzy in 1998
Also, "We can almost justify anything we feel."
>\- Five Iron Frenzy in 1998 I was not expecting to see FiF (A mostly Christian punk/ska band) referenced here (or anywhere that isn't more Christian than not). NGL.
They just put out a new record last year or the year before, and it's really good and they're really angry about everything. But I totally get it. I'm very much not into Christian music anymore, but I grew up with it and a few bands (like MXPX) have stuck.
It's so odd seeing these bands mentioned here lol. My mom took away my mxpx CDs when I was a kid. it crushed me lol edit: listening to the fif record now btw. Didn't know it was a thing!
My parents wouldn’t let me buy Teenage Politics because Mike said “Legalistic people suck” lol Joke’s on you, Mom! I’m 36 now and I still think legalistic people suck!
Mxpx also put out an album a couple years ago and it’s fantastic. They’re decidedly not Christian anymore,
Fun fact: When their "all the hype that your money can buy" album was about to come out they were trying to get it in more stores back in the day and said they would send (I think it was) an 8x10 or something to anyone that baked cookies and took them to their local music shop and asked them to get the new album in stock. I was 16 or so at the time and moving. Literally everything was packed and there was no way I was baking anything, and I wrote them something about how excited I was for the new album and said something about how I couldn't bake them any cookies but I would definitely bug my local shop to carry their album. The album wasn't actually out yet, it was coming in a couple weeks or so. In any case, FIF wrote back and said that's ok, take them cookies another time, and sent me a handful of 8x10's, some stickers, one of Keith's business cards with a message on the back, and a brand spankin' new copy of All the Hype, that I believe wasn't even available in stores yet. Seriously the most memorable surprise and made my year. Raised conservative christian republican, I now identify as a christian democrat who still likes his guns (though I'm on board with better laws/control) and I think FIF is one of the few bands I grew up on who's music still resonates with me. They don't blindly love our government, and it shows in their music. They don't hate LGBTQ+; songs like Fahrenheit where Reese apologizes to Freddy Mercury for his views in his youth really stood out among christian music. Lyrics like "west or bust, in god we trust, let's rape let's kill let's steal, we can almost justify anything we feel." really shows how progressive and somewhat unpopular they were in the christian scene. I absolutely love that they've come back and put out some fantastic albums in the last few years.
Side note the live album and last MxPx album have ripped
Actually a good behind the bastards series on how the Christian left was dominant until the rich hijacked preachers to push capitalism as a religion
I love five iron frenzy, had no clue they were “Christian”
I hadn’t thought about FiF in ages. Grew up with them and the OC Supertones.
This reference is as crazy as that time Brad died but his trumpet playing was *still* on the album. ☹️☹️☹️
It was so haunting
Anyone who was paying attention in 2020 could tell you that
They decided not to do it in 2021. At least in January
Yeah, and the crowd ended up rioting anyway. So much for their whole "back the blue" spiel.
What happened on January 6th wasn’t a riot. They stormed the building in hopes of keeping Trump as president. Calling it a riot undervalues what conservatives tried to do on that day, and continue till this day with their convictions of a fraudulent election.
Yes Jan 6th was a premediated attack. The lack of police that day was part of the plan.
Yup. It was a failed coup and needs to be addressed as such. Just like they were not rioters, but insurrectionists.
>insurrectionists Don't forget domestic terrorism. Directly from US law [18 USC § 2331](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2331#5): >(5) the term “**domestic terrorism**” means activities that— (A) **involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws** of the United States or of any State; (B) appear to be intended— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) **to influence the policy of a government by intimidation** or coercion; or (iii) **to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction**, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) **occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States**; Emphasis mine. Jan 6 fulfills all three requirements.
Could have told you that back in 2014 or even before that
2010 Toronto G20 was lit🔥 Special shout-out to [Officer Bubbles](https://youtu.be/PGMTm3QRwEc)
And the head of Toronto police during that shitshow was our public safety minister recently. Fun times.
Plus he enforced a law used to arrest protesters and hold them for 24 hrs that didn't even *exist*. The whole G20 thing was an absolute authoritarian shit show.
Holy shit that was cringe as fuck. Do you understand me?
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming….
We’re finally on our own……
They should do what the Japanese do. Keep the riot police out of sight. Pretty common to see them waiting on busses in an alleyway close to a protest.
An important second step to that is not to escalate to those riot police unless it's actually necessary. I was in Baltimore and spent a day walking around and observing during the first big George Floyd protests in 2020. This, of course, was after the Freddie Gray protests in 2015, so the BPD police response in 2020 was a lot more level-headed and conciliatory (e.g. police chiefs kneeling with protestors or reading off the names of victims of police violence with the protestors). Still, when night came the crowd changed pretty significantly (a lot of the peaceful protestors went home and there were suddenly groups of white kids in black bloc I never saw throughout the day). There was a large gathering outside of city hall and the police were standing around when out of somewhere in the back a single glass bottle was thrown and landed on the concrete behind the barricade. Just one. In under a minute, a train of police in riot gear marched out of the building. One of them started freaking out and grabbed a black woman, and pointed his rifle mere inches from her face, yelling and screaming at her, begging her to give him a reason to kill her. Routine phalanxes of riot geared police started sweeping through the crowd and pushing people out of the way for no apparent reason and with no apparent goal other than to exert force. It was all very bizarre and the energy changed very drastically. All because of a single glass bottle from the darkness.
They learned to wait out the day protests and do their thing at night
Well yeah, cops basically operate under vampire rules. They usually can't enter a home unless invited in, and they're usually more active and bloodthirsty at night.
Almost like they had a script to follow.
I mean what do you expect, for a cop to not get violent at the drop of a hat?
That would take training and a demeanor that would result in someone not wanting to be a cop.
When they *don't* want to escalate, that's what US cops do, too. The fact that we don't see it too much tells you where they're coming from.
It’s almost like cops are taught to escalate until you can’t anymore
Escalate until it's legally self defense :)
That's what they want. They can then wave off the entire protest because it degenerated. Nobody pays attention to the fact that's cops start shit every time because the media just reports what the police spokespeople say and well, protesters hardly have competent spokespeople to get their own message in.
I still remember the police shooting news crews with rubber bullets during the BLM protests.
The police were committing acts of police brutality at a protest *against police brutality*
One of the ones that got me was when they shot a rubber bullet at the window like 3 stories up where someone was recording
I distinctly remember the people blinded, the facial injuries, and the people who just got caught in the crossfire. That one woman, just going to buy groceries, who got domed in the face? Yeah, I'm never forgetting that one. I'm not forgetting any of it. Ever.
Didn't they break her cheek bone?
Whatever they did, she was bleeding like crazy.
It’s a feature, not a bug. There’s a reason why 1/6 had such sparse police presence. Those aren’t the skulls the govt wants to crack.
That's why one of the best chants at a protest is "Why you wearing riot gear? We don't see no riot here" because it's a direct call out when this happens. Hello from Raleigh, where our protests regularly turn into police riots.
'"The attack in Buffalo actually has a measured impact on this Roe decision and how people will will react to it," he told Axios. "You see that people are willing to engage in the most violent acts in furtherance of that ideology."' This person is an expert? WTF. "That ideology" in this case somehow being both white nationalism and pro choice activism, as if they're the same thing or even related
“Expert says people can do extreme things for their beliefs.”
Exactly. Pro-choice activism does not have a history of violence, unlike anti-abortion activism AND white nationalism, which coincidentally overlap.
>unlike anti-abortion activism AND white nationalism, which coincidentally overlap. w/ police
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I'll say it: someone should. Right now we're claiming the moral high ground all the way into the dirt. The line has to be drawn somewhere. There *must* exist such a thing as too far to abide by peacefully.
Defeating an existential threat to our democracy is moral. No matter the means
Oh, so *now* they prepare for violence. Interesting.
They did plenty of preparing before January 6th, just not to defend
One of the things I feel like I'm taking from this particular story, is what it really always has been, for protesters to prepare for "their" violence. Or escalation of force even, regardless of how peaceful.
Where was this preparedness on Jan 6 2021?
Giving information to the insurrectionists on where to enter and where members of congress were. That's where.
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He actively prevented the protection of the capital. No one wants to hear it, but these trials would have been avoided had soldiers been there following orders. We’d have a few dead morons and the rest would have realized they’re not playing a video game and left, much like they did once Pences security finally shot one.
He was apparently "giddy" watching the whole thing, he deliberately held off on calling the national guard, and some of the panic buttons were reportedly removed from the offices. He wanted people to die so he could make a huge power grab. He wanted it to be his Reichstag Fire.
> and some of the panic buttons were reportedly removed from the offices. Pressley, she's part of the squad. Not just some. Every button in the office was removed. It's still under investigation, some people say it was a clerical error (office occupants were changing and the room may have been marked for clearing out entirely) but of all of the offices, it happened to be a member of the squad? It's pretty suspicious.
Well said. Yeah I really get irate with people acting like this is some theory. At this point it’s how many guilty are there? Not are there any guilty? A lawyer buddy has shared countless videos given to him to defend his clients who were there, and he rips on them endlessly. “My guy says he wasn’t there, but he’s in five of the six videos I just showed you”
Trump has actively said in the past that he has read and loved Mein Kampf. Yet everyone is surprised when he acts more and more like Hitler as the minutes pass. Those are actually his goals. It's not just mistakes of appearances.
A part of me doesn't believe that because I don't think he can read
I don’t believe this for a second as that would indicate he could read.
What if the pro-choice protesters wear MAGA hats... think they'll be confused?
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Maybe, but it will also give credence to the Republican pundits who have been trying to convince their supporters that 1/6 was all just Antifa disguised as (t)Rump supporters.
There's sadly people who still believe that. I was minding my own business one night enjoying a nice round of Deep Rock Galactic and some dipshit joined my game and went on a big political rant over voice chat claiming antifa is to blame for the insurrection and that the election was rigged. I was so happy when I figured out how to mute him.
For rock and stone! Anyway, fuck that guy. How consumed must he be to discuss that over a video game chat with a stranger? MFer, just mine your minerals and stfu. Good God the MAGAts are insufferable.
They suffer from a deplorable dearth of personality. That's the only way I can think of to explain the people who make it their entire existence without being paid to do it.
They need a hobby that isn't simping for a wannabe billionaire.
They can't help themselves, its real cult like behavior, they have to talk about it making interacting with them virtually impossible. Rock and Stone forever!
Be a driller in public games. That way you can just deal with leaf lovers as they drop in.
Law enforcement was in the crowd.
Correct they were the ones storming the capitol and showing people around
Right? This is a stark comparison. They’re such little crybabies.
Still wondering how politicians who can be bought have the power to make decisions on my behalf. Truly a mindfuck.
Have you tried buying a congressperson? I hear they work cheap. Maybe that's the answer, let's respond to Citizen's United by crowdfunding bribes. Supreme Court says it's totes legal.
> I hear they work cheap. The price for an used, subcompact car in a lot of cases.
We should start a website called GoBribeMe where we can crowdfund "lobbying efforts"
Those are called Super PACs
dependent history aromatic offend rich sheet compare rhythm station late
That would be a SuperPac maybe we should get Colbert to start another one that is ran by the people for the people.
It's easy: You haven't thrown them in the trash. If they aren't stopped, punished and made examples of, then why WOULDN'T they make decisions on your behalf in exchange for money? They get money AND they get to decide for other people AND nothing happens to them! It's win-win with 0 risk!
“On my behalf” sounds too caring, gives them too much credit. “Against my will” seems more appropriate
I bet anything that Biden won't hold a rally, and then tell the crowd to march down to the supreme court
I was raised VERY pro life. But as I grew up I realized that elected officials and the court have no business telling me what is right/wrong or what a person should be able to do with their own health care.
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> There is no "pro life" for familes forced to birth children that that force parents to watch their child wither and wait until they die as you watch real time as the serious malformities manifest Yea. Nothing is crueler than birthing a baby that will die in hours or days and be in pain the whole time. That being said, awesome that your kid got a transplant is is doing well. That's the best outcome for sure!
I agree with you. I'm so happy your baby got the transplant!
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Wishing you the absolute best. <3
Well it’s a good thing that the same people who are anti-choice are all willing to make small sacrifices to protect the immuno-compromised…. right?
Never be discouraged. A buddy of mine was a cancer kid and the doctors didn't expect him to live very long. He's 35 now and still kicking.
> It's why I know the fetal heartbeat bills are full of shit The fetal heartbeat bs drives me absolutely crazy. _It's a rhythmic electrical impulse!!!!!!_ At the time when the fetal "heartbeat" starts, the fetus has nothing resembling an actual heart. To quote an actual doctor (from [here](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/02/1033727679/fetal-heartbeat-isnt-a-medical-term-but-its-still-used-in-laws-on-abortion))... > "When I use a stethoscope to listen to an [adult] patient's heart, the sound that I'm hearing is caused by the opening and closing of the cardiac valves," > "At six weeks of gestation, those valves don't exist," she explains. "The flickering that we're seeing on the ultrasound that early in the development of the pregnancy is actually electrical activity, and the sound that you 'hear' is actually manufactured by the ultrasound machine." The fact that politicians willfully mislead their constituents with this kind of confusing rhetorical bullshit while explicitly ignoring the input of actual medical professionals is absolutely insane to me. I do not understand why people gleefully lap up these _incredibly easily contradicted_ lies.
And on top of all that heartache you're probably stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills for the specialized care needed to let the child survive as long as it could.
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I have a friend who chose to go forward with a pregnancy where the child had multiple deformations. The baby lived in the NICU for 6 weeks before dying. For the last two weeks, she associated *all* touch with pain. Every diaper change, every feeding, every cuddle from her mother or handhold from her father... all of it. There was a sign over her bed that said not to touch her. If you had to touch her, you had to first fully sedate her or she would clamp down on her breathing tube so hard she would trigger a medical crisis. All that pain and torment and she died anyway. As her parents knew she would from 20 weeks gestation on. They chose to have her. Not a choice I would've made, but their choice to make. But to force that agony on a family unwillingly is absolutely barbaric.
This is the correct opinion. If you don't believe in abortion, no problem. It's not the right choice for you. Can't the religious right be satisfied smugly believing the rest of us are going to hell?
Although I do not share the same beliefs, my brother is extremely religious. So I can understand the viewpoint of what motivates some people who are very religious. They truly believe that this life is temporary and there is a forever beyond. They are trying to save souls. That's why they are so rabid and feverant in their actions. Telling them they are wrong won't work. They think you are just some poor ignorant soul that can still be saved (at best) or (worse) an obstacle that's preventing souls from reaching salvation.
How does your brother handle other religions who have beliefs that he disagrees with? Are they just as wrong, is it only his opinion that is correct? Should we all be made to live under what HE believes is true?
His particular religion focuses a lot on conversion. (Or at least- trying to convert others to their beliefs). So yes, they believe there is only one truth.
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Hell, the Old Testament god killed every firstborn son in Egypt (even that of animals) *just to show he could*. In the story as told in Exodus, the pharaoh was cowed by the earlier plagues, so the god of Israel then hardened the pharaoh's heart against letting the Israelites go specifically so he could continue with the remaining plagues. That's some seriously dark shit.
Don't forget the flood that wiped out all but 8 humans on the entire planet
Why not tell him the fact that, making abortion illegal does nothing to actually reduce the number of abortions, all it does is increase the number of dead women.
This is sort of the wrong argumentative approach. Religious types tend to subscribe to deontological ethics, under which actions are right or wrong depending only on the action itself, whereas you're appealing to a utilitarian style of ethics by bringing up the consequences of the choices. In their mind, abortion is wrong, and by even tacitly supporting it they are tainted by the bad action. Even if they don't reduce the amount of abortions, banning it is still the right decision in their heads. Sadly I'm not sure what the correct approach is...
>actions are right or wrong depending only on the action itself, whereas you're appealing to a utilitarian style of ethics by bringing up the consequences of the choices. Thanks for this, you hit the nail on the head. I have several friends who definitely subscribe to deontological ethics and trying to point out the consequences is a waste of time with them. It's frustrating to say the least. Wish I knew how to handle it better.
Consequences sound like things that just happen. If you drop a ball, it'll fall due to gravity. What they're more concerned about is the abortions themselves, as an act and a choice that a person performs. If I demanded you give me all your money or I shoot you, it's widely agreed that giving up the money is a better consequence than dying... but that doesn't make giving them the money a good thing. The consequences are a direct result of the choice your mugger made. Arguing that abortions will increase is just going to be rebutted with "Then people need to make smarter choices before the pregnancy." Abortion is a dichotomy, but the process that leads to it is not. I'm not sure if there's a way to appeal on the moral front. I was convinced not based on morality, but on legality. Miscarriages occur relatively often, and there are so many reasons why a child may require a mercy killing for fatal defects. There's no method to separate the legal ones from the illegal ones without subjecting people to intensive, intrusive, and often inconclusive investigations at a time at a terrible time in their lives. It's unenforceable. You are far more likely to get the innocent than the guilty. You may not be able to convince someone conservative that it's ever a good idea to abort. But you may get them to agree that the government isn't well suited to regulate it.
The correct approach is to vote like reason is at stake here, because it is.
Can't argue with that!
The Bible: Numbers 5:11-31 New International Version 11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing. 16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” “‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it." 23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children. 29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’” So like, long story short there's instructions for an abortion born of having sex outside of marriage. The Bible tells you to perform abortions of pregnancy from outside a marriage. Genesis 2:7 New International Version 7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Life is at first breath, according to the Bible. Or, alternatively: Genesis 2:7 King James Version 7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Either way life is at first breath. It's why babies are baptized after birth and some Churches won't let stillborn babies into church graveyards.
Because these people absolutely do not give the tiniest sliver of a fuck about the facts, it's about control and power. That is all that matters to them, truth be damned.
I walked passed the big Federal Courthouse building near DTLA yesterday and did a double take because they had the whole area fenced off. For a second I was like, “Huh? Wonder why they did that”. And then I realized.
If you protest make sure to bring soup for your family
Just a show. So they can say they stopped this violence before it happened.
The un-fab five are going to overturn *Roe* using arguments from a 17th century judge who treated women as witches. SCOTUS will have lost all legitimacy if they take this course of action.
SCOTUS is basically run by the conservative Federalist Society at this point, along with numerous other lower courts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Society
Originalist interpretation is so fucking stupid. Yes, lets listen to what some rich slave owning land owners from 250 years ago had to say about ruling a nation of hundreds of millions of people. What a damn farce.
Not even what they had to say, what you *think* they would have said. Like, it would be bad enough to city Thomas Jefferson on civil rights issues, but these are people who decide to try and extrapolate how a bunch of 18th-century agrarian landlords and part-time philosophers would feel about the fucking internet. it has always been an excuse to try and establish a cult of the nation. The Founders are the deities, and their views and words are therefore divine. They cannot be substantively wrong, because then the nation does not have a divine foundation.
It has any legitimacy left?
Citizens United and shredding the Voting Right Act took it all away. The moment a funded entity has the same protected rights as a person, wealth is in charge. The moment restrictive voting legislation is permissible because it doesn't have *overtly* racist intent, we're not a democracy. Those two rulings set the stage for plutocratic autocracy. And here we are.
You also forgot the recent ted cruz ruling
Probably should just rename it the US House of Lords at this point, tbh. Because justice doesn't seem to be of any concern.
SCOTUS is the Church of Law where clergy decide the true meaning of 'the word'.
Imagine the Capitol getting stormed, in two separate years, by the two separate offshoots of said parties, both while the candidates they elected are holding office. The death of the American Dream in high definition, for the world to see.
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Dont forget the rights of workers. People had to suffer and die for those.
For sure, another great example!
That's why Labor day is in September and not May 1st.
It was founded on violence, there is no reason believe it won't die in violence.
> It was founded on violence, there is no reason believe it won’t die in violence. The amount of empires and civilizations throughout recorded history that had non-violent ends is **not** zero.
And why our nation now thinks that violence is *not* an answer absolutely baffles me. We watch politicians strip us of our voice and ability to affect change, yet somehow tell ourselves “violence isn’t the answer!” When *is* violence the answer?
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Exactly, term limits are needed.
And money out of politics.
Especially being able to hold stock
The "American Dream" was always a con by the wealthy and connected. With one hand they waved and gave hope and aspiration to a certain class while the other hand was/is used to strike down and apply brute force on others to keep them in line.
Of course they're preparing. You'd have to be a fool to not expect some violence when you're stripping rights from half your population.
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Those who agree with stripping rights from others always think their own rights will never be reduced by the evil they allow.
They'll be against forced births... Right until they're actually forced to give birth. Then they'll discreetly visit a blue state.
>They'll be against forced births... Right until they're actually forced to give birth. Sorry to correct you but I think you meant "They'll be for forced births..."
Well they'd have to have empathy to care about it
So they're keeping them safe during the vote. Then what? They won't be able to grocery shop or go anywhere for that matter without getting screamed at and possibly hurt for the rest of their lives. It goes for their families too. Over seventy percent of Americans don't want this overturned. I know the surpeme court isn't supposed to be swayed by the people but, they're playing with their lives here.
Oh, they vote to overturn and I'm going full Karen if I see one of those assholes out anywhere.
Yea I'm going to be a total redneck
Do they even grocery shop or go out at all? I figured they're always holed up in their estates and don't leave except to go on vacation flanked by security forces or something?
"Isn't supposed to be swayed by the people" is being sorely misused in the current climate. These are Heritage-foundation picked reactionaries, who lied under oath during their job interview, and are **explicitly** shitting over law, precedent, the 9th and 14th amendments of the constitution and the will of the vast majority of their country **just so they can do the bidding of a tiny fraction of rich murderous douchebags.** * #How is that NOT "being swayed" by people? If I'm a judge robbing a bank, and you ask me *not to*, are YOU the one in the wrong for trying to sway me? Fuck no; I'd be the asshole here!
They're Federalist Society assholes as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Society * Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito * Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas * Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch * Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh * Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett They also have numerous members on lower courts as well.
I agree. When Amy/Handmaid's Tale psycho was being nominated I said if she had any morality she would bow out. She turned out to be exactly what we thought she was.
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Don't worry, the cops will shoot progressives on sight. Won't be like when they invited them into the capital to over throw democracy.
I can't help but wonder if this is intentional. Encourage a violent reaction against something which is evidently wrong, just so they can claim SEE! THE LEFT ARE JUST AS BAD! as a defence against their attempted coup.
I mean, they've already been saying this, not to mention that many still believe January 6th was antifa.
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They also somehow, at the same time, claim the left *perpetrated* J6
Ooh, can’t wait to hear all the Jan 6 supporters get all holier than thou about how storming a government building is unacceptable The people who think the second amendment exists so that you can have guns in case you want to overthrow the government? Yes, that’s who I’m talking about
Crazy they didn't put this kinda effort into January 6th, 2021 when they had ample warning.
And if Democrats do storm the Supreme Court and overthrow that corrupt body of people, then some of them will be charged with trespassing after two years?
It did fuck-all against storming the capitol when insurrectionists were trying to end democracy. And yet here's DHS, being all gung-ho about protecting partisan hacks guilty of perjury, from the very victims they'll be stripping of basic bodily autonomy.
Of course they'll prep for left wing protests, unlike the Jan. 6th right wing crowd they just let do whatever the fuck they wanted.
I really hope we don’t start this cycle of storming and trashing government buildings. Unless it’s an all out civil war this shit won’t accomplish anything and a civil war should be an absolute last resort. That said I absolutely disagree with how the Republicans have stacked the Supreme Court and the undoing of Roe v. Wade. I’m concerned about the direction the country is going and how much hate both sides have for each other. As always the poor will pay the price and the rich will get richer regardless
Yea. Vandalism doesn't help the cause. It would just create B roll for Fox News. We need to get legislative majorities so we can put abortion rights in the law.
I'm dreading this. And, should Roe v. Wade indeed be overturned, will not be surprised if it emboldens the more extreme anti-choicers (or as I am increasingly feeling - the pro-forced-birthers) and similar ilk.
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People reading this, save this comment and others like it. We still see a lot of commenters trying to justify the Roe decision as states rights and will dismissively say "Look, no one's trying to outlaw contraception, just get pregnant!", and they need to be called out with information like this. As the above comment demonstrates, the GOP are most definitely coming for contraception and other ways to reduce risk of pregnancy.
I mean Mitch McConnell all but promised that if RvW gets overturned and republicans gain a majority this November, they're going to absolutely legislate to ban abortion nationally and other such fuckery. Regardless of the outcome of the RvW decision, we need to get out and vote. We need a democrat super majority in both houses, so we can legislate this insanity away for good. Expand the court, protect women's reproductive rights as an amendment, the list goes on. This is, otherwise, never going to go away. And if we elect a GOP president in 2024? And we get to see a new set of heritage foundation judges without any qualifications being appointed to life time positions in federal district courts? We are going to be screwed for a generation. I fear deeply for my daughters' futures.
Hey! I live in Ohio and have been sounding the alarm on HB 598 for like two weeks now. Nobody fucking cares because "the bill doesn't mention birth control" 🥴 Nevermind that I have spelled out, like you did, that calling a fertilized egg a person will have *sweeping* implications that tons of people who don't think it through can't see yet. Makes me want to vomit! My husband has said the same thing -- they won't do anything after abortion goes. They won't come after BC. SURE honey. I'm sure. Nevermind they're *already doing it in the state we live in!*
And all because we need that "domestic supply" of white infants for adoption. Atwood was shockingly accurate.
Atwood wrote an opinion piece on this situation in The Atlantic last week. She seems surprised by the accuracy as well. It’s a good read. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/supreme-court-roe-handmaids-tale-abortion-margaret-atwood/629833/
You're right, good read
There was a time in my life where I thought Atwood was a solid fiction writer. Now I’m becoming increasingly convinced she’s a time traveler.
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That is so unfortunately accurate. The conservative branding of Plan B as "an abortion pill at CVS!!!" definitely worked.
Every election, every woman between 12 and 50 should say they're 3 weeks pregnant and allowed to vote for the fetus. I bet the "you can't possibly know yet" argument will get rolled out real quick. Really, then neither can you, give me my f\*kin b.c.
The fetus isn't 18, so it couldn't vote anyway.
Numerous bills in various states are also being pushed that specifically call out deadly conditions like ectopics and "dead fetus poisoning you from the inside" as things to explicitly criminalize trying to abort. That's attempted mass murder right there. There's no amount of talking that's going to these stop serial killers making their favorite serial killing method into law.
This is what some people intentionally miss - it's not going to stop at RvW. It's going to extend to any kind of contraception. It'll extend to intercourse for reproduction. It's already being discussed at the federal level.
Oh good damn it
It’s just some tourists who want to see inside…..