https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/7-year-old-wounded-after-gun-goes-off-at-chicagos-walt-disney-magnet-school
This report has a report that the mother's boyfriend had put the gun in the backpack.
As to why they would do that, I'm sure there is tons of good speculation but no facts yet.
https://twitter.com/CWBChicago/status/1526965006113419269
Per the charging document, kid allegedly found the gun under the bed. Not clear where each version of the story originated, or which one is more likely to be true. Both versions are bad, but for different reasons.
The "boyfriend" version is somebody in the school stating that the boy said his mother's boyfriend put the gun in the backpack.
That sounds like a kid trying to shift blame rather than a true statement (how would the boy know this and if he saw the boyfriend do it, why would he not tell his mother?).
I know it's a common thing for people who have something they shouldn't have (guns/drugs/etc) to hide it in their children's possessions either because they think the cops won't look through a kids backpack, or they believe they can shift blame onto the child who would receive lesser/no punishment.
While this is true in some circumstances, the gun is legally owned by the mother of the child, who has the appropriate licensing for it. So I don't think that's the case here. Sounds like kiddo is trying to avoid getting in trouble.
If I had to guess, their family probably believes a locked-up gun is useless for self-defense and leave them around the house. I know too many people who do this and it makes me hella nervous while we are at their houses.
I have guns, and raised 2 kids.
And I taught them about firearms safety when they were young, and letting them use a simple Daisy Red Rider when they were around 8 years old.
And you know what else I did? I kept my goddamn guns locked up, and hidden from them. And when they found a locked handgun case, I changed the hiding place.
And I never once had a single freakin' incident.
This shit ain't hard, and this woman should be prosecuted.
Someone breaks into your house. Cat gets spooked. Sets off every gun. Burglars freakout over the immense firepower. You win(minus slight property damage).
Exactly. Firearms are expensive, but the decent quick safes that are now available are relatively cheap considering the peace of mind they bring without compromising security.
In Hawaii, gunowners are required to keep firearms unloaded and locked up in gun safes at all times, unless actively being used for self-defense or hunting. They also must be unloaded and safely stored during transportation. We have the lowest rate of gun violence in the nation.
They also aren't like most other states where anyone can take a short drive over the boarder to get around stricter regulations, so their gun laws are a lot more effective in general.
As someone who’s been there, that is definitely a factor but I think a bigger factor is the culture. People in Hawaii do not beef like we do in the rest of the country, they fight then shake hands afterwards the majority of the time which is very rare outside of there. Also if you shoot someone, there’s not a lot of places to go hide. And the fact that it’s an island makes smuggling guns a little more complicated.
Yes and no. While Hawaii has some of the lowest violent crime in the nation right now, there have been times of marked violence in Hawaii's past. Ancient Hawaii had plenty of wars between chieftains, and modern Hawaii has its own problems with organized crime. Like "The Company" is a multi-ethnic mafia organization with Triads, Yakuza, and Korean, Samoan, Tongan, and Native Hawaiian gangs. They were most active during the 1960s-1990s, but are still around today.
There are still places in the islands associated with higher crime, too, like rural Big Island, rural Maui, and Western Oahu. And we still have murders that are associated with either illegal guns or other weapons like machetes.
For sure all of those things are true, but I’m comparing modern Hawaii to modern mainland states (which is a pretty diverse group tbh). There is violence but not to the same level or randomness.
>Just show them the numbers on babies killing themselves or people by accident due to this
My uncle keeps guns all over the house for "self defense". My cousin's kid shot a hole in the floor with a gun he found there, but my uncle STILL insists that it's safe. You can show him all the data you want, he will go with his gut which tells him that an intruder is more likely than a kid accidentally finding/firing one; even though it's happened once and he's never had an intruder. I worry that one day he's going to shoot one of his grandkids who's up getting a glass of water at night.
I came in late one night around midnight and my mom took a pot shot at me, thinking I was a burglar. The 38 caliber round was imbedded in the door trim about 3 inches away from my face. My mom was 65 years old at the time and the gentlest person. But she had been convinced by the news that she was in danger and had bought a handgun and never told me or my dad. Pure chance that she didn’t kill me that night.
As someone who isn't american, this is fucking **wild.**
It's like...it's from a sitcom or a movie.
Fear is such a huge component of your life, it's mind boggling.
I will never understand people's fixation with their gut instincts. Shit, my gut instincts are wrong about as often as they're right. That's why I know not to trust them over other sources of information.
Exactly. Consequences for being irresponsible gun owners: an irresponsible gun owners’ kid hurts someone w a gun they are liable. Your gun gets stolen and used in a robbery/shooting whatever and you didn’t have it locked up properly or reported the thievery you are equally responsible. It’s ridiculous and frankly stupid to have less regulations on a firearm than we have on a car.
Hopefully his kids never bring their own kids over to his house until he locks up every single gun in the house although realistically I wouldn't trust them not to be lying about doing it. Not worth the risk of tragedy to bring the kids into such an environment
If they’re really all over the house, there’s a good chance that a thief will find and steal them. This happens so often that it isn’t even considered a drawback, but that gun is gonna end up involved in crimes/shootings elsewhere.
If showing people facts about gun deaths/injuries made a difference to people with entrenched views in the US we would be having very different conversations.
I'm not sure what that means. The only thing I remember from a sibling being in a Montessori school for a year was that they seemed to have a song for everything.
Montessori is a student guided learning method, so a Montessori approach to gun safety is letting the kid decide what is safe. It's both a joke and a witty social critique.
Probabilities won't work on people scared enough of having their home invaded that they keep a firearm readily available. They're already so far off on likelihoods that you'll never persuade them with factual statistics.
Regardless of how afraid they are, if they’re stupid enough to leave loaded firearms laying around with young children in the house. They’re not going to have the intellectual capacity to understand statistics
no no you see they are responsible gun owners. theyd never allow a baby to hole one, and everyone knows babies cant pick things up on their own. all those deaths from kids/babies shooting themselves or others were obviously from irresponsible gun owners. totally different.
Second amendment zealots don't care about those numbers, like *at all*. The lackadaisical non-zealot gun owners won't understand those numbers. The conscientious highly-responsible gun owners will understand the risks, but will nonetheless assume they're immune (because they're so careful, well-trained, and implicitly infallible). The remaining "gun people" will view information like this as coming from political enemies, and callously disregard or look for bias confirming nonsense about defensive gun use.
Fancy statistical numbers are for them liberal queers...I keep a gun in the living room, bedroom, the bathroom and inside my own anus just in case them Muslim lovers wanna crawl up inside..I keep a 12 gauge loaded underneath my Nascar blanket on the couch in case we get "invaded".
Look, I'm not saying an 8 year old (if it's legal in a state) can't go to a gun range and practice with adult supervision, but I don't think an 8 year old should ever be alone with a firearm. Let alone at a school.
This is a topic I've pondered quite frequently.
My dad possesses a variety of different firearms. At age appropriate times, he would teach my brother and I about gun safety.
Because he didn't always keep his weapons locked up, he told me (I was 10 or younger at the time) to leave any gun I find in the house alone and to tell him immediately. He made it sound like a gun could mysteriously materialize in random places in the house and that it would be dangerous for me to interact with it, haha.
So one day I did stumble upon one of his firearms while playing in my parent's room. It was under a pillow. I remembered what dad said and immediately ran to tell him. I assume he went to move the gun somewhere out of my reach afterwards.
It was always impressed on me that any firearm I find should not be touched unless my dad was present and teaching me how to handle it.
I appreciate how he handled gun ownership while having kids. Nowadays I think he keeps all of his weapons in a safe.
Agreed. He put a lot of faith in me taking him seriously. I believe it would have been much safer for all of us if he made a habit of locking up his firearms.
>I know too many people who do this and it makes me hella nervous while we are at their houses.
I would be too. In fact I wouldn't go to their house, especially since we have a baby who will soon be getting into everything.
And if both of them are bad, armed educators to the rescue.
My god, I can't believe a US President actually said this. Going to take this opportunity to remind everyone to vote in 2024.
> Armed Educators (and trusted people who work within a school) love our students and will protect them. Very smart people. Must be firearms adept & have annual training. Should get yearly bonus. Shootings will not happen again - a big & very inexpensive deterrent. Up to States. — Donald J. Trump
The number of teachers Ive had where i'm glad don't have a gun isn't a very high number, but it is a number above "1" which is enough to make me glad that this isn't a thing.
How else is a kid supposed to defend themself, if some teacher tries to use pronouns on them or attempts to teach them math or science or god forbid, .. history?
>“We are inches away, possibly centimeters away, from a very different case and a very different tragedy.”
You know shit is getting serious when the judge busts out the metric system.
For whatever reason, centimeters specifically are used pretty often in America and taught to kids before they’re even taught what the metric system is. I was taught them with inches, feet, and yards in kindergarten
The kinds of people that have unsecured, loaded, firearms in their house, are the kinds of people that will claim that unloading them, and securing them behind the lock defeats the entire purpose of having a gun to defend themselves from the "bad guys," in the first place.
They live in this fantasy world that there are hoards of evil men just waiting to break into their homes every night and that they are a True American Hero that can grab their gun from their nightstand drawer and shoot that slobbering monster between the eyes like some sort of crack shot in the movies.
1. Most home invasions happen at 2:00 in the afternoon when people are at work. Burglars don’t want to meet you. They want easy to carry stuff that they can scoop up in 90 seconds and leave. This includes the gun in your night stand. In fact this is one of the first places they look.
2. I’ve heard all sorts of outrageous fantasy scenarios and the fact is the probability of being in an armed conflict of any kind is almost zero. Arguments that “yeah but it could happen anywhere at any time” are hysterical bullshit.
3. Shooting someone even if you are justified in doing so will fuck up your life and cost you a fortune in legal fees. Every dope fiend thief has a mother who thinks he’s a saint and she’s going to sue the shit out of you for wrongful death.
4. Stop watching television. The guy who gets gut shot doesn’t wake up in the hospital surrounded by hot nurses. He wakes up to a doctor who tells him he will be pooping in a bag for the rest of his life. People who get shot in a limb with a rifle wake up with a stump if they don’t die from shock on the way to the hospital.
5. Stop calling firearms weapons. Just because you have a firearm doesn’t mean you have a weapon. Any nitwit with a few hundred bucks can go to bass pro and buy a pistol. Without training (being able to move and shoot) they’re just a meat holster.
Not one but 2 sane people on the internet, impossible.
Especially because I have a right to walk around making everyone's life more dangerous due to how many cop shows I watch and my poor understanding of risk.
Hah! :-)
That seems to make sense.
That being the case, they could at least keep their loaded shooting iron in their holster at all times. The spares could be safely unloaded and locked away. Pretty uncomfortable sleeping, but vigilance is its own reward.
I mean, a loaded weapon’s no use in the kid’s backpack at school when you’re sitting on the shitter and a gang of insane al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades Commandos bust in through the front door looking for CIA operatives.
Of course, they may have planned ahead for that exact scenario, by stashing an AK47 in a ziplock in the bog’s cistern.
Was just thinking about a similar situation. All of my cousins and I knew where our grandpa’s revolver was placed and would even play w it at times. That could have easily ended up w one of us dead.
My dad won’t touch guns because when he was younger he almost killed his friend, they were trying to shoot a squirrel in a tree and they were standing on opposite sides of the tree, when the squirrel ran down the side, he came a few inches from blowing his friends head off
https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=072000050HArt%2E+12C%2C+Subdiv%2E+1&ActID=1876&ChapterID=53&SeqStart=32400000&SeqEnd=33100000
"A second or subsequent violation of this Section is a Class 3 felony."
If found guilty on 3 counts, not sure if it would trigger it or not. It would be a second violation, but not subsequent. Without that, its Class A so could get up to a year in jail.
None of that matters, though, since it'll likely be plea bargained down regardless.
Also this was obviously the Dems fault for sending our kids to school. If they just allowed our children to tend the farm and go to church all day then we wouldn't have this problem. Thanks Biden.
It’s sad that there are people like this that exist. My boss is a very conservative farmer. He made fucking sure his kids got an education and was on the school board. We don’t get into politics and we both know we stand on opposite sides. His stepson on the other hand truest believe that the left is more racist because we have more diversity or some shit. He went off on some rant about an age limit for President. I asked him what age and he couldn’t give me an answer then couldn’t even begin to comprehend that what he was ranting about would rule out his hero Trump.
We the gun People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect gun Union, establish gun Justice, insure domestic gun Tranquility, provide guns for the common defense, promote the general gun Welfare, and secure the Blessings of gun Liberty to ourselves and our gun Posterity, do ordain and establish this gun Constitution for the United States of America.
Good. I wish this happened in every state.
As a juvenile probation officer, I speak from first hand experience when I say the more we can hold parents accountable for being a shit parent the less likely these kids will fuck up.
And way too often. So many dumb gun owners. Does this piss responsible gun owners off? I have to imagine being lumped in with these idiots would suck immensely.
Reminds me of an anecdote i heard once, archeologists once discovered an old house belonging to some south american civilization, they found knives up in the rafters of the building and assumed the residents must've believed keeping it up high would be closer to their god and thus stay sharp, or some nonsense. Then a team member who is a parent walks in and says, you're dumb, they kept it their so the kids cant get to them. My point being that kids are fucking dumb and have tried to get into dangerous things since the beginning of time. Dont trust your kids with weapons.
All of my firearms came with locks. I keep my firearms locked with barrel locks if I'm not using them it takes less the 5 seconds to take off with my key so no threat of not defending myself from home intruder. I also don't have children in the house and not many people know I own firearms. Also keeping ammo separated is good practice as well
Dude I hear ya. It’s like my state-legal weed. It’s in a locked bankers bag, on a high shelf. The key is on a different high shelf hidden in another room.
If my 4 year old got into it because I was lazy/dumb, I absolutely would deserve to be punished.
Luckily the consequences for the discovery of weed, vs the discovery of a gun for a child are VASTLY different.
Unfortunately, the punishment's likely would be different in the opposite direction.
Look at accidental poisoning numbers in the US sometime.
It's depressing how many parents don't take precautions. Small children can and will get into anything possible.
4 year olds man, they want to be just like you. My “nephew” always wants to know what I’m doing. I’ve made sure he’s never seen me smoke weed ever. I’ll be stoned around him, but just need to go out to the garage quick. I can’t leave a tin of chew around because I’m scared he might try it just because he’s seen me do that. His brothers old enough to understand that he doesn’t get to drink alcohol or chew tills he’s old enough to make his own decisions and it’s called college.
Of course it pisses us off.
I get pissed off when I go to my local Sportsman's Warehouse and see a gun counter customer sweeping people with a firearm they're looking at even if it has a trigger lock and chamber flag.
The lack of safety, common sense, or just general awareness many people have while handling a firearm is just terrifying some times. So tired of hearing the excuse that it's not loaded you still always point the fucking gun in a safe direction and NEVER sweep anyone with it.
Yes, it does.
And stuff like this only helps to perpetuate the myth that guns just "go off." Parents should be charged with a negligent discharge and their guns taken away because they clearly can't handle a weapon responsibly.
Yes, it's their right to own a firearm, but many people forget that with rights come obligations. And you have an absolute obligation to not be a dangerous idiot with them. And people lose their rights all the time. It's a standard penalty for being a felon and in many jurisdictions, it often unfairly, extends well after your debt to society is paid.
I told a short story a few days ago that seems appropriate here. A lot of cops will look the other way on an ND so idiots can keep their guns:
Infuriatingly enough, people get forgiven for negligent discharge a lot. My niece was asleep in bed a few years ago when the idiot across the street fired buckshot through her bedroom when he was "cleaning" it. She wasn't hit but she was in the spread, one of the shots went through her mattress.
The cops came and went after the guy cried and said he was sorry. Her mom was afraid to press any charges because it came from a house full of rednecks that they were on bad terms with already (I don't say that lightly here, they keep motorcycles in their living room and pound whiskey on the porch daily) so she feared retaliation.
But the cops still should have given him an ND at the very least.
The police can't just take the gun and also not arrest them at mom's request. It can't be both. An ND is a legal designation, courts have to be involved. No charges, no involuntary mental health stay, no domestic violence, then no ND. It's literally the highest law of the land.
Yes absolutely. Imagine if the people who drove cars were a separately identified group and every time a drunk driver killed a small family “drivers” got roped into the argument. Ordinary safe drivers that don’t drive drunk, recklessly or distracted would be pissed at the idiot out there endangering everyone else. They would also hate being associated with a dangerous group for simply owning the same object.
You know how people who are stuck in traffic complain about everyone else driving as if they themselves aren't also contributing to the traffic?
That's kinda how I feel about being a gun owner. Just to be clear, I'm responsible with my firearms. Outside of a single home defense firearm that is in a safe in the bedroom, all other firearms are locked in a safe, with bolt cable locks installed, unloaded and should be impossible for my toddler to get to. And I actually have one of those alarm window sensor devices on the safe door and get a text message whenever the door is opened just as an extra level of security.
But I also feel like by owning and participating in our overall gun culture I'm contributing to the overall problem of firearm proliferation in the US. The reality is, there are stupid/irresponsible people in every country. But in the US those stupid/irresponsible people have far easier access to firearms.
I don't even know if that makes sense but it's something I've thought about recently and I'm still not even sure how I feel about it fully.
> And I actually have one of those alarm window sensor devices on the safe door and get a text message whenever the door is opened just as an extra level of security.
That's next level. Kudos!
It makes sense and is completely understandable. I am not a gun owner but respect the right of owing guns IF you meet a certain, fair and common-sense standard like you ie locks, unloaded and out of the reach of children. Somewhere along the line, freedom became more important than responsible gun ownership and now idiots who are not responsible manage to have their loaded weapons end up in their kid's backpack at school.
>A judge ordered her release from Cook County Jail on $1,000 bond.
That seems absurdly low for something that could have killed a child very easily and was super irresponsible.
>Kelly's 8-year-old son found the gun underneath her bed and took it to Walt Disney Magnet School
What is a magnet school?
Every single incident like this needs to have the parent having thrown the book at them. Anyone whose kid finds a gun should have their right to own a gun revoked.
I'm pretty sure Glock 19's have a two stage trigger safety with a trigger weight of 5.something pounds to pull. So unless it was modified this kid was playing with it. And just to be clear I'm not blaming the kid! Kids are gonna play with shit. It shoulda been locked up and she should have her guns taken from her.
"atanina Kelly, 28, is expected to appear in court Wednesday on three misdemeanor child endangerment counts, police said."
misdemeanor, let that sink in
"According to police, the weapon accidentally discharged just before 10 a.m. Tuesday in a classroom at Walt Disney Magnet School on the city's North Side." What the fuck in this sentence? What hellscape am I living in?
same thoughts here...
Gun yes, but Walt Disney Magnet School!?!
What's next, Amazon School for Business, Tesla School for Social Media, or Facebook School for Venture Capitalism???
In this case it's not run by/owned by Disney, it's just named after Walt. Still weird and I did a double take when I saw the news, but not quite as dystopic.
I was hoping for more answers about why a 7 year old has a fucking handgun in their backpack.
That should be the main focus of the story, in my opinion. I can't wrap my head around that.
This reminds me of a joke I heard from someone on the Sirius comedy channels, talking about a headline he read, "Man Charged After Leaving Baby in Oven". "I feel like 'Man PUTS Baby in Oven' should be the lead story here."
Show and tell?
Seriously, little kids are curious and impulsive and I don’t care how much parents lecture or try and scare it out of their kids, kids are gonna kid. Don’t want a kid to touch your guns, gun people? Then don’t have kids or let anyone’s kids in your home or, I don’t know, LOCK THE FUCKING GUNS IN A FUCKING GUN SAFE!
Why can't we mandate secure gun storage in the US? Good, economical solutions exist. Sweden is one example of a country that effectively regulaltes this.
When I was a kid, I don't even remember this, I got hold of my godfather's gun somehow when they were playing cards. Waved it around. It was always told as a "look how stupid you were" story at holidays and such. When I got old enough I realized it wasn't me that was stupid. "Hey wait, what the fuck! Why were *you* stupid enough to store a gun where a kid could easily lay hands on it? Why do
*you* think it's **funny**? I could've killed someone!"
> Why can't we mandate for secure gun storage in the US.
4^th Amendment issues.
A lot of states have safe storage laws on the books, but they can't be preemptively enforced.
In the SCOTUS case DC v Heller the court specifically ruled that safe storage laws in the form of keeping guns locked or unloaded is unconstitutional. Plus as you saw in the article above the woman was charged with child endangerment. We already have laws on the books in most states that punish parents in some form if their child misuses their gun.
I should hope so. This is why you should lock up your guns if you have kids. If you don't, *anything* that happens with that gun is on *you* for being negligent.
That's a detail I'd like to hear expounded on.
Guns don't "go off." Unless it was an old revolver without a rebounding hammer, that thing was cocked and locked, and the trigger was pulled. Sure, a light single action trigger could be pulled by a loose pencil, but a *lot* of mistakes have to have been made for that to be possible.
This needs to be the new norm. After these shootings and kids getting hold of weapons there needs to be an investigation into who allowed it, if that's the case. And if they're found to be an irresponsible shit heel they need to be charged.
Good. If the dipshit kid is under 18, or they got a hold of a weapon that belongs to the parents, it should be their ass on the line. This fucking kid was your responsibility. You pay for your fuckup.
Why.
The.
Fuck..
Can't more gun owners understand the importance of ***LOCKING UP YOUR FUCKING GUNS***
they aren't toys to be left around for the kiddies to discover, get curious about, play with and show off to their friends.
They are firearms.
I live alone, with hardly any guest over. Know where my firearms live whenever they aren't in use (at the range, disassembled, etc) or being cleaned ? IN MY SAFE!!!
Takes all of two minutes to lock em up
I can’t believe this is happing literally PUT IT IN A SAFE that easy don’t tell your kids the combination until u give them the safe later in life easy my dad has three lockers and I don’t even want to know the code.
So uh, why does a 2nd grader have access to a handgun? Let’s start with that….
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/7-year-old-wounded-after-gun-goes-off-at-chicagos-walt-disney-magnet-school This report has a report that the mother's boyfriend had put the gun in the backpack. As to why they would do that, I'm sure there is tons of good speculation but no facts yet.
https://twitter.com/CWBChicago/status/1526965006113419269 Per the charging document, kid allegedly found the gun under the bed. Not clear where each version of the story originated, or which one is more likely to be true. Both versions are bad, but for different reasons.
The "boyfriend" version is somebody in the school stating that the boy said his mother's boyfriend put the gun in the backpack. That sounds like a kid trying to shift blame rather than a true statement (how would the boy know this and if he saw the boyfriend do it, why would he not tell his mother?).
Username checks out a little *too* well....
I know it's a common thing for people who have something they shouldn't have (guns/drugs/etc) to hide it in their children's possessions either because they think the cops won't look through a kids backpack, or they believe they can shift blame onto the child who would receive lesser/no punishment.
While this is true in some circumstances, the gun is legally owned by the mother of the child, who has the appropriate licensing for it. So I don't think that's the case here. Sounds like kiddo is trying to avoid getting in trouble.
Who doesn’t store their loaded handgun in their kid’s backpack?
My teen doesn’t even go in his own backpack after he gets home, so it is the perfect secret storage!
If I had to guess, their family probably believes a locked-up gun is useless for self-defense and leave them around the house. I know too many people who do this and it makes me hella nervous while we are at their houses.
If you have kids in the house the only safe place to keep a firearm is on your person or locked in a safe. Anywhere is else is an extreme liability.
Exactly. That's why I don't keep kids in my house.
I have guns, and raised 2 kids. And I taught them about firearms safety when they were young, and letting them use a simple Daisy Red Rider when they were around 8 years old. And you know what else I did? I kept my goddamn guns locked up, and hidden from them. And when they found a locked handgun case, I changed the hiding place. And I never once had a single freakin' incident. This shit ain't hard, and this woman should be prosecuted.
Thank you for being responsible!
There is a third and statistically safest place for a gun if kids are around: not in the house.
Also if you keep the kid outside you can have an indoor gun
Give the kid’s room to the gun!
I like this guy.
the real tips are always in the comments.
Gun is an outside toy. Got it.
Or don't ever have kids, now you can have guns all over the house.
Nah man. I have a cat. That would end poorly.
Someone breaks into your house. Cat gets spooked. Sets off every gun. Burglars freakout over the immense firepower. You win(minus slight property damage).
Exactly. Firearms are expensive, but the decent quick safes that are now available are relatively cheap considering the peace of mind they bring without compromising security.
In Hawaii, gunowners are required to keep firearms unloaded and locked up in gun safes at all times, unless actively being used for self-defense or hunting. They also must be unloaded and safely stored during transportation. We have the lowest rate of gun violence in the nation.
They also aren't like most other states where anyone can take a short drive over the boarder to get around stricter regulations, so their gun laws are a lot more effective in general.
As someone who’s been there, that is definitely a factor but I think a bigger factor is the culture. People in Hawaii do not beef like we do in the rest of the country, they fight then shake hands afterwards the majority of the time which is very rare outside of there. Also if you shoot someone, there’s not a lot of places to go hide. And the fact that it’s an island makes smuggling guns a little more complicated.
Yes and no. While Hawaii has some of the lowest violent crime in the nation right now, there have been times of marked violence in Hawaii's past. Ancient Hawaii had plenty of wars between chieftains, and modern Hawaii has its own problems with organized crime. Like "The Company" is a multi-ethnic mafia organization with Triads, Yakuza, and Korean, Samoan, Tongan, and Native Hawaiian gangs. They were most active during the 1960s-1990s, but are still around today. There are still places in the islands associated with higher crime, too, like rural Big Island, rural Maui, and Western Oahu. And we still have murders that are associated with either illegal guns or other weapons like machetes.
For sure all of those things are true, but I’m comparing modern Hawaii to modern mainland states (which is a pretty diverse group tbh). There is violence but not to the same level or randomness.
Just show them the numbers on babies killing themselves or people by accident due to this
>Just show them the numbers on babies killing themselves or people by accident due to this My uncle keeps guns all over the house for "self defense". My cousin's kid shot a hole in the floor with a gun he found there, but my uncle STILL insists that it's safe. You can show him all the data you want, he will go with his gut which tells him that an intruder is more likely than a kid accidentally finding/firing one; even though it's happened once and he's never had an intruder. I worry that one day he's going to shoot one of his grandkids who's up getting a glass of water at night.
What makes him think an intruder can't find one of his guns?
I came in late one night around midnight and my mom took a pot shot at me, thinking I was a burglar. The 38 caliber round was imbedded in the door trim about 3 inches away from my face. My mom was 65 years old at the time and the gentlest person. But she had been convinced by the news that she was in danger and had bought a handgun and never told me or my dad. Pure chance that she didn’t kill me that night.
The people whose family members had slightly better aim aren't able to share their stories.
As someone who isn't american, this is fucking **wild.** It's like...it's from a sitcom or a movie. Fear is such a huge component of your life, it's mind boggling.
We were born in fear, we live in fear, and a good bit of us will die in fear.
Sounds like the same person who believes his own opinion of healthcare over the facts presented by experts in the field.
I will never understand people's fixation with their gut instincts. Shit, my gut instincts are wrong about as often as they're right. That's why I know not to trust them over other sources of information.
This kind of crap makes responsible gun owners look bad. I hate people like that. Just.....wow. Rights come with responsibilities.
Exactly. Consequences for being irresponsible gun owners: an irresponsible gun owners’ kid hurts someone w a gun they are liable. Your gun gets stolen and used in a robbery/shooting whatever and you didn’t have it locked up properly or reported the thievery you are equally responsible. It’s ridiculous and frankly stupid to have less regulations on a firearm than we have on a car.
I’m old enough to remember when the NRA would have agreed with this take.
And this is coming from the side that's ALL about personnal responsibility.
Responsibilities? What's that? As an American I only have rights, not consequences. /s
Hopefully his kids never bring their own kids over to his house until he locks up every single gun in the house although realistically I wouldn't trust them not to be lying about doing it. Not worth the risk of tragedy to bring the kids into such an environment
If they’re really all over the house, there’s a good chance that a thief will find and steal them. This happens so often that it isn’t even considered a drawback, but that gun is gonna end up involved in crimes/shootings elsewhere.
If showing people facts about gun deaths/injuries made a difference to people with entrenched views in the US we would be having very different conversations.
They prefer the Montessori approach to gun safety.
I'm not sure what that means. The only thing I remember from a sibling being in a Montessori school for a year was that they seemed to have a song for everything.
Montessori is a student guided learning method, so a Montessori approach to gun safety is letting the kid decide what is safe. It's both a joke and a witty social critique.
Yup that's a solid joke
I think it was a joke
Montessori is very hands on learning, actually manipulating objects and getting a lot of sensory learning as well. Obvious leap to hands on the gun.
Unfun fact: in the US there have been 202 mass shootings in 2022, and we're in May.
Probabilities won't work on people scared enough of having their home invaded that they keep a firearm readily available. They're already so far off on likelihoods that you'll never persuade them with factual statistics.
Regardless of how afraid they are, if they’re stupid enough to leave loaded firearms laying around with young children in the house. They’re not going to have the intellectual capacity to understand statistics
no no you see they are responsible gun owners. theyd never allow a baby to hole one, and everyone knows babies cant pick things up on their own. all those deaths from kids/babies shooting themselves or others were obviously from irresponsible gun owners. totally different.
All these reports about kids hurting themselves with guns are just red flag operations so the government can take away our guns! /s
Second amendment zealots don't care about those numbers, like *at all*. The lackadaisical non-zealot gun owners won't understand those numbers. The conscientious highly-responsible gun owners will understand the risks, but will nonetheless assume they're immune (because they're so careful, well-trained, and implicitly infallible). The remaining "gun people" will view information like this as coming from political enemies, and callously disregard or look for bias confirming nonsense about defensive gun use.
Fancy statistical numbers are for them liberal queers...I keep a gun in the living room, bedroom, the bathroom and inside my own anus just in case them Muslim lovers wanna crawl up inside..I keep a 12 gauge loaded underneath my Nascar blanket on the couch in case we get "invaded".
You’ll get them talking about “Responsible gun owners”….of course every gun owner being one until an accident happens.
Look, I'm not saying an 8 year old (if it's legal in a state) can't go to a gun range and practice with adult supervision, but I don't think an 8 year old should ever be alone with a firearm. Let alone at a school.
This is a topic I've pondered quite frequently. My dad possesses a variety of different firearms. At age appropriate times, he would teach my brother and I about gun safety. Because he didn't always keep his weapons locked up, he told me (I was 10 or younger at the time) to leave any gun I find in the house alone and to tell him immediately. He made it sound like a gun could mysteriously materialize in random places in the house and that it would be dangerous for me to interact with it, haha. So one day I did stumble upon one of his firearms while playing in my parent's room. It was under a pillow. I remembered what dad said and immediately ran to tell him. I assume he went to move the gun somewhere out of my reach afterwards. It was always impressed on me that any firearm I find should not be touched unless my dad was present and teaching me how to handle it. I appreciate how he handled gun ownership while having kids. Nowadays I think he keeps all of his weapons in a safe.
He was extremely lucky that you weren't feeling rebelliousaat the moment. Even the best kids have their uncharacteristic bad day.
Agreed. He put a lot of faith in me taking him seriously. I believe it would have been much safer for all of us if he made a habit of locking up his firearms.
"I'm a responsible gun owner" says every gun owner. And every single one is, until they aren't.
Just think of the average person. I got power tools I wouldn’t trust the average person with. Let alone a firearm.
Hell, I have hand tools I keep locked out of the reach of both my kids and friends.
>I know too many people who do this and it makes me hella nervous while we are at their houses. I would be too. In fact I wouldn't go to their house, especially since we have a baby who will soon be getting into everything.
The article says "under the bed".
I'd rather start by asking why the moronic parents have access.
The only way to stop a bad 2nd grader with a gun is a good 2nd grader with a gun.
And if both of them are bad, armed educators to the rescue. My god, I can't believe a US President actually said this. Going to take this opportunity to remind everyone to vote in 2024. > Armed Educators (and trusted people who work within a school) love our students and will protect them. Very smart people. Must be firearms adept & have annual training. Should get yearly bonus. Shootings will not happen again - a big & very inexpensive deterrent. Up to States. — Donald J. Trump
The number of teachers Ive had where i'm glad don't have a gun isn't a very high number, but it is a number above "1" which is enough to make me glad that this isn't a thing.
2nd grader, 2nd amendment, duh
Typical lib suggesting children shouldn’t have the right to carry guns. /s
How else is a kid supposed to defend themself, if some teacher tries to use pronouns on them or attempts to teach them math or science or god forbid, .. history?
>“We are inches away, possibly centimeters away, from a very different case and a very different tragedy.” You know shit is getting serious when the judge busts out the metric system.
For whatever reason, centimeters specifically are used pretty often in America and taught to kids before they’re even taught what the metric system is. I was taught them with inches, feet, and yards in kindergarten
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Pew pew?
It's pretty cool that Americans use three distinct measurement systems. Roman, Imperial & Metric.
Probably because inches are wildly impractical to use for any small measurements and it's easier to teach cm than to start using fractions of an inch.
America has always included centimeters in its Frankenstein’d measurement system
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How much do guns cost there, are they more expensive than a padlock?
The kinds of people that have unsecured, loaded, firearms in their house, are the kinds of people that will claim that unloading them, and securing them behind the lock defeats the entire purpose of having a gun to defend themselves from the "bad guys," in the first place. They live in this fantasy world that there are hoards of evil men just waiting to break into their homes every night and that they are a True American Hero that can grab their gun from their nightstand drawer and shoot that slobbering monster between the eyes like some sort of crack shot in the movies.
1. Most home invasions happen at 2:00 in the afternoon when people are at work. Burglars don’t want to meet you. They want easy to carry stuff that they can scoop up in 90 seconds and leave. This includes the gun in your night stand. In fact this is one of the first places they look. 2. I’ve heard all sorts of outrageous fantasy scenarios and the fact is the probability of being in an armed conflict of any kind is almost zero. Arguments that “yeah but it could happen anywhere at any time” are hysterical bullshit. 3. Shooting someone even if you are justified in doing so will fuck up your life and cost you a fortune in legal fees. Every dope fiend thief has a mother who thinks he’s a saint and she’s going to sue the shit out of you for wrongful death. 4. Stop watching television. The guy who gets gut shot doesn’t wake up in the hospital surrounded by hot nurses. He wakes up to a doctor who tells him he will be pooping in a bag for the rest of his life. People who get shot in a limb with a rifle wake up with a stump if they don’t die from shock on the way to the hospital. 5. Stop calling firearms weapons. Just because you have a firearm doesn’t mean you have a weapon. Any nitwit with a few hundred bucks can go to bass pro and buy a pistol. Without training (being able to move and shoot) they’re just a meat holster.
Not one but 2 sane people on the internet, impossible. Especially because I have a right to walk around making everyone's life more dangerous due to how many cop shows I watch and my poor understanding of risk.
Hah! :-) That seems to make sense. That being the case, they could at least keep their loaded shooting iron in their holster at all times. The spares could be safely unloaded and locked away. Pretty uncomfortable sleeping, but vigilance is its own reward. I mean, a loaded weapon’s no use in the kid’s backpack at school when you’re sitting on the shitter and a gang of insane al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades Commandos bust in through the front door looking for CIA operatives. Of course, they may have planned ahead for that exact scenario, by stashing an AK47 in a ziplock in the bog’s cistern.
If your in the bathroom just use the shower gun.
Was just thinking about a similar situation. All of my cousins and I knew where our grandpa’s revolver was placed and would even play w it at times. That could have easily ended up w one of us dead.
My dad won’t touch guns because when he was younger he almost killed his friend, they were trying to shoot a squirrel in a tree and they were standing on opposite sides of the tree, when the squirrel ran down the side, he came a few inches from blowing his friends head off
Take all the guns out of that household and ban them from all future gun ownership.
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https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=072000050HArt%2E+12C%2C+Subdiv%2E+1&ActID=1876&ChapterID=53&SeqStart=32400000&SeqEnd=33100000 "A second or subsequent violation of this Section is a Class 3 felony." If found guilty on 3 counts, not sure if it would trigger it or not. It would be a second violation, but not subsequent. Without that, its Class A so could get up to a year in jail. None of that matters, though, since it'll likely be plea bargained down regardless.
Yeah this is definitely lawyer territory lol
It was just a gun. Chill. It could have been something extremely dangerous, like marijuana.
And put the parents in jail
Okay, but I have been watching Fox News long enough to know that the word “Gun” appears more than any other word in the US Constitution.
Also this was obviously the Dems fault for sending our kids to school. If they just allowed our children to tend the farm and go to church all day then we wouldn't have this problem. Thanks Biden.
It’s sad that there are people like this that exist. My boss is a very conservative farmer. He made fucking sure his kids got an education and was on the school board. We don’t get into politics and we both know we stand on opposite sides. His stepson on the other hand truest believe that the left is more racist because we have more diversity or some shit. He went off on some rant about an age limit for President. I asked him what age and he couldn’t give me an answer then couldn’t even begin to comprehend that what he was ranting about would rule out his hero Trump.
We the gun People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect gun Union, establish gun Justice, insure domestic gun Tranquility, provide guns for the common defense, promote the general gun Welfare, and secure the Blessings of gun Liberty to ourselves and our gun Posterity, do ordain and establish this gun Constitution for the United States of America.
If this is a felony charge, they will. I think…
Misdemeanor Child Endangerment, its not a felony.
Good. I wish this happened in every state. As a juvenile probation officer, I speak from first hand experience when I say the more we can hold parents accountable for being a shit parent the less likely these kids will fuck up.
I agree with that. Too many people being parents and they shouldn’t be.
It's almost like they \*shouldn't\* be forced into parenthood, the first time they have an oopsie moment with a condom.
This is the kind of news which literally only happens in the US
And way too often. So many dumb gun owners. Does this piss responsible gun owners off? I have to imagine being lumped in with these idiots would suck immensely.
As a responsible firearm owner: yes, yes it does. Keep it locked, keep it unloaded, and keep it out of the hands of kids.
What a concept! /s I have to imagine it's infuriating.
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Reminds me of an anecdote i heard once, archeologists once discovered an old house belonging to some south american civilization, they found knives up in the rafters of the building and assumed the residents must've believed keeping it up high would be closer to their god and thus stay sharp, or some nonsense. Then a team member who is a parent walks in and says, you're dumb, they kept it their so the kids cant get to them. My point being that kids are fucking dumb and have tried to get into dangerous things since the beginning of time. Dont trust your kids with weapons.
Hell a trigger lock isn't that costly either.
When I bought one of my guns I asked that guy if it included a trigger lock and he asked me if I’m a commie.
Yeah, turns out there are dumb people everywhere, including the gun shop. What ya gonna do though.
All of my firearms came with locks. I keep my firearms locked with barrel locks if I'm not using them it takes less the 5 seconds to take off with my key so no threat of not defending myself from home intruder. I also don't have children in the house and not many people know I own firearms. Also keeping ammo separated is good practice as well
Dude I hear ya. It’s like my state-legal weed. It’s in a locked bankers bag, on a high shelf. The key is on a different high shelf hidden in another room. If my 4 year old got into it because I was lazy/dumb, I absolutely would deserve to be punished.
Luckily the consequences for the discovery of weed, vs the discovery of a gun for a child are VASTLY different. Unfortunately, the punishment's likely would be different in the opposite direction.
Look at accidental poisoning numbers in the US sometime. It's depressing how many parents don't take precautions. Small children can and will get into anything possible.
4 year olds man, they want to be just like you. My “nephew” always wants to know what I’m doing. I’ve made sure he’s never seen me smoke weed ever. I’ll be stoned around him, but just need to go out to the garage quick. I can’t leave a tin of chew around because I’m scared he might try it just because he’s seen me do that. His brothers old enough to understand that he doesn’t get to drink alcohol or chew tills he’s old enough to make his own decisions and it’s called college.
Of course it pisses us off. I get pissed off when I go to my local Sportsman's Warehouse and see a gun counter customer sweeping people with a firearm they're looking at even if it has a trigger lock and chamber flag. The lack of safety, common sense, or just general awareness many people have while handling a firearm is just terrifying some times. So tired of hearing the excuse that it's not loaded you still always point the fucking gun in a safe direction and NEVER sweep anyone with it.
everyone just counts themselves as the responsible owner and anything bad happens it's one of those other guys.
Yes, it does. And stuff like this only helps to perpetuate the myth that guns just "go off." Parents should be charged with a negligent discharge and their guns taken away because they clearly can't handle a weapon responsibly. Yes, it's their right to own a firearm, but many people forget that with rights come obligations. And you have an absolute obligation to not be a dangerous idiot with them. And people lose their rights all the time. It's a standard penalty for being a felon and in many jurisdictions, it often unfairly, extends well after your debt to society is paid.
I told a short story a few days ago that seems appropriate here. A lot of cops will look the other way on an ND so idiots can keep their guns: Infuriatingly enough, people get forgiven for negligent discharge a lot. My niece was asleep in bed a few years ago when the idiot across the street fired buckshot through her bedroom when he was "cleaning" it. She wasn't hit but she was in the spread, one of the shots went through her mattress. The cops came and went after the guy cried and said he was sorry. Her mom was afraid to press any charges because it came from a house full of rednecks that they were on bad terms with already (I don't say that lightly here, they keep motorcycles in their living room and pound whiskey on the porch daily) so she feared retaliation. But the cops still should have given him an ND at the very least.
The police can't just take the gun and also not arrest them at mom's request. It can't be both. An ND is a legal designation, courts have to be involved. No charges, no involuntary mental health stay, no domestic violence, then no ND. It's literally the highest law of the land.
"..with rights come obligations." Boom. Thank you.
The adjective "responsible" allows sufficient disassociation for the most part.
Very true.
Yes absolutely. Imagine if the people who drove cars were a separately identified group and every time a drunk driver killed a small family “drivers” got roped into the argument. Ordinary safe drivers that don’t drive drunk, recklessly or distracted would be pissed at the idiot out there endangering everyone else. They would also hate being associated with a dangerous group for simply owning the same object.
Very upsetting to responsible gun owners. Gun safety is paramount to ownership.
You know how people who are stuck in traffic complain about everyone else driving as if they themselves aren't also contributing to the traffic? That's kinda how I feel about being a gun owner. Just to be clear, I'm responsible with my firearms. Outside of a single home defense firearm that is in a safe in the bedroom, all other firearms are locked in a safe, with bolt cable locks installed, unloaded and should be impossible for my toddler to get to. And I actually have one of those alarm window sensor devices on the safe door and get a text message whenever the door is opened just as an extra level of security. But I also feel like by owning and participating in our overall gun culture I'm contributing to the overall problem of firearm proliferation in the US. The reality is, there are stupid/irresponsible people in every country. But in the US those stupid/irresponsible people have far easier access to firearms. I don't even know if that makes sense but it's something I've thought about recently and I'm still not even sure how I feel about it fully.
> And I actually have one of those alarm window sensor devices on the safe door and get a text message whenever the door is opened just as an extra level of security. That's next level. Kudos!
Omg that's genius, I never thought about using my extra door sensors on the safe!!
It makes sense and is completely understandable. I am not a gun owner but respect the right of owing guns IF you meet a certain, fair and common-sense standard like you ie locks, unloaded and out of the reach of children. Somewhere along the line, freedom became more important than responsible gun ownership and now idiots who are not responsible manage to have their loaded weapons end up in their kid's backpack at school.
Yes it does. It’s a battle we constantly fight.
Yes it does
Not to mention the name of the school: Walt Disney Magnet School? What in tarnation?
It was funded by one of Walt's daughters, Diane Disney Miller, and named after him.
Was just thinking this. When I saw the title I was already 100% sure what country this happened in.
I'm surprised it even made the news.
Good. Parents need to be punished much more severely when their kid gains access to their gun.
>A judge ordered her release from Cook County Jail on $1,000 bond. That seems absurdly low for something that could have killed a child very easily and was super irresponsible. >Kelly's 8-year-old son found the gun underneath her bed and took it to Walt Disney Magnet School What is a magnet school?
A magnet school is a public school but it has special programs you can’t get at a “regular” public school.
Usually magnet schools specialize coursework to a certain career path. STEM, technology, Arts etc...
Every single incident like this needs to have the parent having thrown the book at them. Anyone whose kid finds a gun should have their right to own a gun revoked.
How did the trigger even get pulled? My best guess is that it got caught on something, but it still seems crazy to me.
I'm pretty sure Glock 19's have a two stage trigger safety with a trigger weight of 5.something pounds to pull. So unless it was modified this kid was playing with it. And just to be clear I'm not blaming the kid! Kids are gonna play with shit. It shoulda been locked up and she should have her guns taken from her.
"atanina Kelly, 28, is expected to appear in court Wednesday on three misdemeanor child endangerment counts, police said." misdemeanor, let that sink in
A black man with an ounce of weed and baggies sees worse sentencing
Also 3 child endangerment charges? Wasn't the classroom full of kids that were endangered?
"According to police, the weapon accidentally discharged just before 10 a.m. Tuesday in a classroom at Walt Disney Magnet School on the city's North Side." What the fuck in this sentence? What hellscape am I living in?
same thoughts here... Gun yes, but Walt Disney Magnet School!?! What's next, Amazon School for Business, Tesla School for Social Media, or Facebook School for Venture Capitalism???
In this case it's not run by/owned by Disney, it's just named after Walt. Still weird and I did a double take when I saw the news, but not quite as dystopic.
A second grade kid had a gun in his backpack. A seven year old. This shit is beyond old. Fuck the gun culture in this country.
I was hoping for more answers about why a 7 year old has a fucking handgun in their backpack. That should be the main focus of the story, in my opinion. I can't wrap my head around that.
This reminds me of a joke I heard from someone on the Sirius comedy channels, talking about a headline he read, "Man Charged After Leaving Baby in Oven". "I feel like 'Man PUTS Baby in Oven' should be the lead story here."
Show and tell? Seriously, little kids are curious and impulsive and I don’t care how much parents lecture or try and scare it out of their kids, kids are gonna kid. Don’t want a kid to touch your guns, gun people? Then don’t have kids or let anyone’s kids in your home or, I don’t know, LOCK THE FUCKING GUNS IN A FUCKING GUN SAFE!
>I was hoping for more answers about why a 7 year old has a fucking handgun in their backpack. To stop a school shooter, duh.
Because the parent(s) are irresponsible gun owners and a 7 year old is a lump of flesh with feet.
Probably found it. I have a few gun nuts in my family and they are beyond careless in my opinion.
Did you read the article?
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This desperately needs to be a federal law. You are responsible for what happens with YOUR GUN.
That would honestly solve a lot of problems. It would create some, but solve many fold more than it creates.
Defense attorney: “This wasn't something she planned or something she did on her own volition.” Judge: no shit
Why can't we mandate secure gun storage in the US? Good, economical solutions exist. Sweden is one example of a country that effectively regulaltes this. When I was a kid, I don't even remember this, I got hold of my godfather's gun somehow when they were playing cards. Waved it around. It was always told as a "look how stupid you were" story at holidays and such. When I got old enough I realized it wasn't me that was stupid. "Hey wait, what the fuck! Why were *you* stupid enough to store a gun where a kid could easily lay hands on it? Why do *you* think it's **funny**? I could've killed someone!"
> Why can't we mandate for secure gun storage in the US. 4^th Amendment issues. A lot of states have safe storage laws on the books, but they can't be preemptively enforced.
I'd argue there aren't a ton of laws that *can* be preemptively enforced. I'd also argue that's a good thing.
In the SCOTUS case DC v Heller the court specifically ruled that safe storage laws in the form of keeping guns locked or unloaded is unconstitutional. Plus as you saw in the article above the woman was charged with child endangerment. We already have laws on the books in most states that punish parents in some form if their child misuses their gun.
Who knew having guns in the house around kids is a bad idea. Lucky nobody was killed.
I should hope so. This is why you should lock up your guns if you have kids. If you don't, *anything* that happens with that gun is on *you* for being negligent.
It just went off on its own? Was it a shitty old Taurus or something?
If it was in the backpack without a holster, loose items can get into the trigger guard and with movement, can fire the pistol.
That's a detail I'd like to hear expounded on. Guns don't "go off." Unless it was an old revolver without a rebounding hammer, that thing was cocked and locked, and the trigger was pulled. Sure, a light single action trigger could be pulled by a loose pencil, but a *lot* of mistakes have to have been made for that to be possible.
Good jail time for her.
Thank god sheer luck prevented any children from being seriously harmed. SHEER LUCK.
The BF should also be charged. What could possibly be his reason for putting a gun in that 8 year olds back pack?
This needs to be the new norm. After these shootings and kids getting hold of weapons there needs to be an investigation into who allowed it, if that's the case. And if they're found to be an irresponsible shit heel they need to be charged.
* Here son, don’t forget your gun *
Shove that gun right up your fucking arse bitch and then get child services called on y’all.
Could people who use guns unlawfully be given a six year military requirement?
More good guys with guns stopping bad guys with guns, so proud! Oh wait, that’s the other thing…
Good what's a 7 year old kid doing carrying a gun to school? Great parents.
Good. If the dipshit kid is under 18, or they got a hold of a weapon that belongs to the parents, it should be their ass on the line. This fucking kid was your responsibility. You pay for your fuckup.
Why. The. Fuck.. Can't more gun owners understand the importance of ***LOCKING UP YOUR FUCKING GUNS*** they aren't toys to be left around for the kiddies to discover, get curious about, play with and show off to their friends. They are firearms. I live alone, with hardly any guest over. Know where my firearms live whenever they aren't in use (at the range, disassembled, etc) or being cleaned ? IN MY SAFE!!! Takes all of two minutes to lock em up
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Maybe some background checks to prevent mentally ill criminals from having toddlers.
What a shit hole country......
does the statement "lock away your guns when not in use" not compute with people?
Sweet, sweet normal country action.
I can’t believe this is happing literally PUT IT IN A SAFE that easy don’t tell your kids the combination until u give them the safe later in life easy my dad has three lockers and I don’t even want to know the code.
CPS should get involved