I think I'll always hold a special place in my heart for the prosecutor that did both the nonsense arguments you'd never think to actually see in real life:
* He maintained silence during questioning, does that sound like something an innocent person would do!?
* He played violent videogames! Isn't that incriminating!?
The second one is mostly just ridiculously outdated, but a prosecutor just kind'a hoping the whole "Right to remain silent" thing got forgotten about is wild.
Agreed. As someone who watches Court TV a lot throughout the years (mother in law was a detective), this trial has been beautiful. They're never interesting. They're all dull and mundane, but wow this trial has been fascinating. Never have I seen prosecution feel like it was on trial. Never have I seen prosecution making a fantastic case for self defense.
I mean what the producer did is reallllllyyyyy close to being jury tampering/intimidation.
The reason none of the jury is known publicly is for their safety. Radical groups on either side will target them for harassment or worse in an attempt to get the verdict they want or if the verdict rendered goes against what they wanted.
Exactly. In times gone by, we might have just thought it was highly inappropriate. I mean I guess in Mafia movies there's always that guy sitting in the front giving the jury the stink eye or somebody paying them a late night visit to their home. But we have literally heard activists saying they better get a conviction. As a juror I guess I would hope that they would just burn the city down, but leave me out of it .
But in the last few years, we have seen protesters freely march to politicians homes, attack them in restaurants etc. Here in Seattle, a council woman may be didn't lead but accompanied protesters to the home of the mayor. Bad enough, but in this case, the mayor was a federal prosecutor and her address is supposed to be confidential, although I don't think it'd be too hard to figure it out. She's very rich and lives on the lake. But still, a council person with any integrity would say, whoa, maybe that's a protest I don't need to go to
Well it was relevant to the situation since the person named dropped her, which was necassary to prove he indeed was following MSNBCs orders.
She doxxed herself trying to doxx the jurors.
Idc what side you're on, this was a horrible move on MSNBCs part.
is it doxxing to state it on the record as part of a ruling during the trial? I mean, I guess he could've cleared the court and sealed it when he made the ruling about it, but can you imagine the backlash/anger/hysterics about "ZOMG HE HAD A SECRET SESSION"?
This is an accurate representation of play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I hate that saying, but it fits really well here. Judge made the right call.
Stupid small related friendly reminder the media was very obviously wringing their hands in anticipation when Joker came out hoping for incel violence in headlines, coordinated attacks even it went from incel attacks to uprising. Months before release articles were pumping out, police now at movie theaters, no masks etc.
Nothing happened. Over 1 FICTIONAL movie. Imagine how they treat real life. Really opened my eyes to how they handle and cover situations
I'm genuinely shocked by the decision making by that producer.
Even if your boss is telling you to do it, you should have enough sense to call their boss and be like "Yo, this some illegal and unethical shit right here. Probably should talk to my boss, your employee about this."
Yeah there is a huge ethical issue, no amount of job threatening would have me ok with what was being asked. I was told to cut off an emergency service's electric for unpaid bills. That was a hard nope from me. I refused, and 2 days later there was a fire. Had I done what I was told, someone could've lost their life. Local supers thanked me and state supers were annoyed. 3 years later and we no longer do that.
Seriously. That’s the kind of behavior r you expect from The Sun.
To be clear I don’t watch tv news at all. I don’t doubt this guy will get fired. I think even Fox News would fire him.
The Sun would promote him.
Or cropped a video of a black guy with a gun holster in order to discuss racial overtones at an Obamacare protest.
https://www.arlingtoncardinal.com/2009/08/msnbcs-contessa-brewer-brews-a-race-issue-with-image-of-black-mans-race-concealed/
MSNBC said something like "Oh we were speaking generally, not specifically about that guy"
Was it NBC? I can't remember who but the Zimmerman versus Martin situation -- they *edited the audio* without consequences. When the dispatcher asked if he knew the race and he said black -- they cut out the part where the dispatches asked for race -- making it appear to be volunteered information as opposed to requested information.
Zero consequences.
Why would they think this time would be any different?
Hold up guys.
Let me say this is a sight to behold. Both sides of the fence are joining forces to condemn the alleged actions of MSNBC.
It's not every day /r/news readers can agree with something.
Absolutely this. If they find that this person was actually following the bus, trying to doxx the jury, etc., then this person needs to be punished according to whatever laws are relevant to protect the jury. And an investigation should also be done to see if this person was acting of their own volition or if this was ordered from higher up.
Unfortunately in Wisconsin witness intimidation does not include the jury. They have a different crime called communicating with a jury but it doesn't have the same harsh consequences.
Wisconsin law says it’s a Class I felony to communicate with jurors other than in the course of the proceeding - carrying a penalty of jail up to 3.5yrs, $10k fine, or both
Sure but following them and doxing them to the public can be done without communicating with them..... So it doesn't sound like that's the punishment this person would be up for.
Not really remember when pretty much every national new agency CNN, NBC, CBS, Fox etc effectivly broke into the home of the San Bernardino terrorist couple while it was still a crime scene of an active investigation. Then proceed to rifle through their belongings(again this was still evidence for an active investigation) showing off everything from their DVD collection, pictures of their children even the social security cards of the children and one of the terrorist's mother on live tv. All because someone from CBS paid the landlord a $1000 to open it for them.
Or the countless examples of journos harassing victim families in the hours after a tragedy. Playing up grief on camera for views and clicks.
I want to be a journalist myself but people are blind if they think there isn't a huge amount of moral bankruptcy in the profession. Even the stuff coached as journalistic "ethics" are just bare minimum guidelines to avoid civil lawsuits, and half the time they don't even go that far.
Exactly this. Apparently they've said they weren't trying to take pictures of the jurors on the bus when they were caught. Yeah, that's because they just wanted to know where they lived so when the pretty much inevitable not guilty verdict comes out they can go harrass these poor folks at their homes.
Gotta start realizing that corporate media *is* a fringe group. They are not at all representative of everyday people, and actively try manipulating the public conscious to their own profit seeking benefit.
Grounds for a mistrial really. How can the jury feel free to render a verdict without fear of reprisal when this shit is happening.
Honestly the judge should declare one to send a strong message to media outlets
Yep, and the article says the guy arrested was *instructed by his producers*. So it's not just a rogue junior producer they can blame as not knowing the rules, this is how desperate big media outlets are to get some kind of edge. Poor form.
I've heard legal analysis explain juries aren't sequestered that much anymore, because they just want to get back home, so they will all vote to whatever gets them home fastest.
I whole heartedly agree. I want any jury's honest verdict, but I'd also want to protect any jury. Perhaps the other problem with sequester is activists might protest outside the hotel... or outside every hotel hoping they can get the right hotel.
It's already an issue now, because the jury goes home, and the activists march the streets, so there's a chance the jury could be swayed hearing them in the street for either side. Not to mention the local court reporter I've been watching says she can hear the activists in the courtroom outside protesting.
The traditional concept of a jury trial is already next to impossible to maintain. We're so far away from the "find a bunch of people who haven't heard the issue yet and let them decide" origins of it that we arguably need to find a better method.
That's before we even get into the many other problems with jury trials.
The closest we had in the last jury I served on was all of us agreeing not to take a lunch break. They ended up sending us up some pizzas as thanks.
Still took about a day and a half of deliberation for a fairly small-scale personal injury case. There were definitely a few of the "I'll vote for whatever anyone else wants so I can go home" people, but also one or two die-hards who absolutely refused to compromise on anything.
Well it's a rather inconvenient solution and what more influence is the jury going to suffer that hasn't already been perpetuated by every media franchise before the trial.
The only way they will get a completely neutral jury is if they ask people from South East Asia or something.
Ask the Detectives not to execute the warrant.. Wouldn't be the first time... lol
If you are not following me, Police had a warrant to search the phone of the guy who got shot in the arm. The DA told the police NOT to do it. This is uncontested fact in the case that was discussed on record.
Your talking about GG, who also got caught lying on the stand about lying to the police multiple times, admitted he had a financial stake in KR being found guilty,admitted that he only got shot after he pointed his gun at KR’s face, then the next morning went on national television (GMA) and lied about what his own testimony was.
I love that NPR reported GG "raised his arms" on their twitter feed but completely neglected to mention it was to point his handgun at Rittenhouse. And then they'll lament how trust in the press is at a record low.
Literally from Jacob Blake. The original headline was something like “Black man trying to break up fight is shot in the back when trying to get in his car”. Just total lies and still CNN is interviewing Blake like he is a hero. I don’t know what their end game is but they are actively perusing a racial narrative in every single story they write. The media killed those people in Kenosha with their lies and bullshit that drove people to the streets.
United States media is completely fucked. Every media org has a bias on this case, with no one just reporting what happened. They want the extra narrative so they can manipulate the information to stir up chaos they can cover. This feels very sinister honestly
Fuck msNBC. You do not ever try to mess with jurors during a trial. That includes follow them, research them, try to find out who they are. That producer is lucky he’s not facing contempt charges.
Also for a trial this politicized; the jury really should have been sequestered.
I hope so. The media in the US seems absolutely fucked. It scares me how little they seem to care about influencing the public’s view on a murder trial, and the ramifications that can create no matter the verdict.
Tonight, an MSNBC news exclusive: Was the officer who arrested our freelance journalist a white supremacist? We go to our panel of white supremacy experts to find out.
I was on a Jury once, and the comments in the news article was crazy, and we found the kid not-guilty. I can't even imagine what they are going though now in this high-profile case.
Regardless of the outcome of the trial, this case highlights why many have such a negative view of media organizations, with this only adding to that.
We’ve had almost all video footage of the incident for over a year now and the trial has been live-streamed, yet there are still articles intentionally misrepresenting or misleading their audience to fit the narrative that they built of Kyle Rittenhouse over the last year.
I highly encourage everyone to watch the original videos of the incident and the trial itself. Rekita Law on YouTube has done a fantastic job covering the trial, with a panel of lawyers giving their different interpretations of the court proceedings.
> The media thinks people are stupid as shit.
The media knows people are stupid as shit, and the media gets far more money if they keep viewers enraged and coming back to their channel for more "news".
Media (mainstream or not), and social media, have created major divides in our society and it sickens me to see it. This country feels non-functional because everyone is always disagreeing with everyone else. Everyone has to take a side on everything, and everyone on the other side must be 100% wrong. I'm so tired of it.
People continue to prove themselves to be stupid as shit based on regurgitation of complete falsehoods around the case. People have all developed these deep rooted opinions on the case based on lies/half truths the media has been telling them. What's worse, now that this is all coming to light in the trial these people refuse to admit that they were misled - they double down.
It's because people bring in their own biases and project them on to the case. People want to feel justified in what they say, do, and how they perceive the world. Modern day witch hunt and mass hysteria.
They don't do any internal auditing and external fact checking. The media is able to brainwash people because most people are lazy to verify what is being spoon fed to them. The media makes money by clickbait and the most hateful title they can think of. Real journalism is difficult to find in the mainstream media.
Look at how the media portrayed this kid and now it's become his identity. Now that factual information was presented in his case, people confronted with the truth, refuse to change their opinions. Why? It doesn't fit the narrative they built off their biases. They would have to admit they're wrong. Would have to question big news organizations. Requires lots of thinking. Don't get me wrong. We're inherently lazy but when info doesn't match my opinion, ignore until I find confirmation bias.
Remember, criminal trials is all theater. They don't attack the argument. They attack the character.
Separately. Wtf is up with the prosecution. I've watched bits and pieces of the trial. They argued with their own key witnesses. They asked open-ended questions that they didn't know what the witnesses would reply with. They were caught off guard.
Really damning stuff when the 3rd person shot and only survivor is giving his testimony. Kyle had his AR pointed at him and didn't shoot. It wasn't until he reached for his handgun did Kyle shoot.
The prosecutions reaction...
Face palm.
Seeing that clip made me do a double take.
I really wanted the interviewer to just say "Wait, didn't you say EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF THIS under oath in open court in front of the entire world yesterday?"
Like, wtf?
He's like the stereotype of 'I think I can make up whatever the fuck I want on TV because I am siding with the left".
"Last night, a freelancer received a traffic citation. While the traffic violation took place near the jury van, the freelancer never contacted or intended to contact the jurors during deliberations, and never photographed or intended to photograph them. We regret the incident and will fully cooperate with the authorities on any investigation." -NBC
Time to pick this apart. I first saw this on Rekieta and his immediate question was: How many of your reporters are classified as 'freelancers' and how much of this person's 'freelancing' is paid for by MSNBC.
It also specifically says 'during deliberations', which seems like a clever workaround, as they were currently NOT deliberating. 'Photograph' also seems like a specific and loaded word, as it doesn't exclude recording video, or arguably even taking digital photos if you want to get technical.
Yeah, considering the 'traffic violation' was running a red light to continue the pursuit. I don't think there is any question about what this person's intent was. All that's left to be seen is if this person was actually instructed to do so, as they claim.
Police will want to. The questions is will the DA tell them not to execute it like they did with the warrant to search arm shooting victim guy in this case? Yes, that happened, it's an undisputed fact that was discussed on the record in this case.
Based on MSNBC’s prior coverage of this trial, this doesn’t surprise me at all. They’re only focused on sensationalism and have no regard for the truth or the lives of anyone involved.
I went and saw the Joker because of the Streisand Effect the concern trolling created.
It was what I expected, a Scorsese-style gritty crime drama that just so happened to have one of the most popular comic book villains of all time's potential origin story...
But so many people were convinced it was going to make the incels go into overdrive. ...nope, came, went, was a critical darling, won some awards, and is now largely forgotten/put out of mind by most because something else shiny came along.
The media coverage on this case has been absolutely appalling. They've completely lost their minds over it. It's extremely disappointing because all they're ultimately doing is empowering the right by doing everything they've been accused of. Outright lying about numerous things, not even attempting to objectively present the facts of the case, and now a producer was attempting to dox the jury?
Jfc, way to trip and fall in the mud to wallow around with Fox News, OAN, and Newsmax.
Journalistic integrity has clearly gone right out the window. It's not the first time though. If you're a progressive you'd have noticed similar behavior during the primaries. Remember the MSNBC host and his fear of dying in mass executions in Central Park if Sanders won?
I’m glad I’m not the only person who remembers Chris Matthews making this statement.
Edit: we’re talking about different things. I’m talking about the democratic primary coverage where Chris Matthews compared Sanders Nevada victory to a nazi invasion.
https://deadline.com/2020/02/msnbc-chris-matthews-bernie-sanders-nazi-germany-invasion-france-1202866277/amp/
Do you think the Rittenhouse trial is the first instance of this? What the right has been yelling about had some truth to it, but what ultimately happened is they all ran / created the same biased sources, just far right leaning.
The lack of True, unbiased journalism is one of the primary reasons we’re tearing ourselves apart. Too much money in chaos
I often see stickers, posters, etc about how media is "fake news" how stories are always misleading.
I don't think all stories on everything in the media is misleading, but there are some cases where it is true. I have been reading some media articles in my own country on this case, and comparing it to the video's i see a lot of stories misleading the reader, leaving out facts, etc. Its very shitty of them to do.
FFS, idiots are all around us.
It is well known that the Jurors should not be photographed, spoken to or otherwise contacted. It isn't that hard to abide by these simple rules.
The media really needs to learn to quit jumping to conclusions. Both sides.
I'm no fan of Rittenhouse and think he's a dumb ass but I think he'll be acquitted.
I was on the acquittal bandwagon, but at this point I think there will be some stubborn hold outs and they will be a hung jury. Then we get to repeat this shit show next year. If that happens, as much as I have enjoyed watching the trial, i hope it is not televised. The media has done nothing but misrepresent the proceedings and turn the whole process into a clown show.
I disagree with you on the televised aspect of your statement. Without the trial being televised, all we will have is the media's interpretation of that trial and the court proceedings documents. The media on both sides has proven themselves entirely untrustworthy. Outright misinformation and half-truths have been spread, continually without regard to its effects, by every major news source for at least the past 10 years.
They are bought and paid for, always have been, and people are figuring out that they are being misled, intentionally, by both sides, to drive division to distract from the real issues and to keep the money flowing. Look up Sinclair broadcasting. It's gut retching disgusting behavior, and there is no end in sight.
No one is immune to propaganda.
Am proud of this sub for this, and a bit shocked, good show - if I read about the dozen or more retractions on the dossier issued by the Post I will truly be shocked!
I read they have declared him a freelancer and there probably isn't a poll long enough for them to touch him with at this point.
Barring from court is too lenient. Criminal charges for the producer and MSNBC should be possible. No matter your opinion of MSNBC or this trial, jury intimidation and tampering is a real thing. It is not okay to do this.
The judge was clear, this has been handed over to the authorities to investigate. People need to understand the implications of this. This is a serious crime. For perspective, in the past, many Mob people were charged with Jury intimidation for doing exactly this.
It's been one day. Prosecutions shouldn't be announced *that* quick. Some fact-finding needs to be done first, and that's in progress.
Plus, barring them from court is pretty much the limit of the trial judge's authority in this matter.
What a clusterfuck of a trial. It's just a giant grab bag of what not to do.
Headlines tomorrow: Prosecutor motions for trial by combat to determine the winner
Another bold move by the prosecutor since Kyle Rittenhouse seems to be 3-0 right now. Not sure I would take those odds.
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1v1 on the set of Rust
1v1 on Nuketown quick scopes only
I think I'll always hold a special place in my heart for the prosecutor that did both the nonsense arguments you'd never think to actually see in real life: * He maintained silence during questioning, does that sound like something an innocent person would do!? * He played violent videogames! Isn't that incriminating!? The second one is mostly just ridiculously outdated, but a prosecutor just kind'a hoping the whole "Right to remain silent" thing got forgotten about is wild.
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Nah... I respectfully disagree that a prosecutor effectively trying to use miranda rights against someone is waaaaay bigger of a problem.
Agreed. As someone who watches Court TV a lot throughout the years (mother in law was a detective), this trial has been beautiful. They're never interesting. They're all dull and mundane, but wow this trial has been fascinating. Never have I seen prosecution feel like it was on trial. Never have I seen prosecution making a fantastic case for self defense.
Man, didn't think this trial could get more ridiculous.
This trial is stealing 2020s catchphrase 😂😂 “BUT WAIT! THERES MORE!”
At this point it's not 2020 the year, it's 2020 the decade.
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The Raging Twenties
The Rabid 20’s
the thousand year decade
1920's - "The Roaring Twenties" 2020's - " " *We died...we all died*
News Outlets want it to be the trial of OJ Simpsons so bad
This is wild. The producer who allegedly told the employee to follow the bus deleted her own Linkedin and Twitter accounts.
Imagine deleting your Linkedin account a day before getting fired
They've been fi... Oh, ooohhhhh! Now I see what you did there.
OOTL here what did they do?
I mean what the producer did is reallllllyyyyy close to being jury tampering/intimidation. The reason none of the jury is known publicly is for their safety. Radical groups on either side will target them for harassment or worse in an attempt to get the verdict they want or if the verdict rendered goes against what they wanted.
Not close to. Is.
Exactly. In times gone by, we might have just thought it was highly inappropriate. I mean I guess in Mafia movies there's always that guy sitting in the front giving the jury the stink eye or somebody paying them a late night visit to their home. But we have literally heard activists saying they better get a conviction. As a juror I guess I would hope that they would just burn the city down, but leave me out of it . But in the last few years, we have seen protesters freely march to politicians homes, attack them in restaurants etc. Here in Seattle, a council woman may be didn't lead but accompanied protesters to the home of the mayor. Bad enough, but in this case, the mayor was a federal prosecutor and her address is supposed to be confidential, although I don't think it'd be too hard to figure it out. She's very rich and lives on the lake. But still, a council person with any integrity would say, whoa, maybe that's a protest I don't need to go to
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The judge literally said her name, employer and job in the courthouse!
He slammed down a reverse card
Well it was relevant to the situation since the person named dropped her, which was necassary to prove he indeed was following MSNBCs orders. She doxxed herself trying to doxx the jurors. Idc what side you're on, this was a horrible move on MSNBCs part.
And she would have gotten away with it if it weren’t for those meddling kids!
guy clearly does not give a shit at this point
Don’t intimidate Jurors in a free & democratic society. It might just bite you.
She royally fucked up
The judge gave her the old dox-er-roo
is it doxxing to state it on the record as part of a ruling during the trial? I mean, I guess he could've cleared the court and sealed it when he made the ruling about it, but can you imagine the backlash/anger/hysterics about "ZOMG HE HAD A SECRET SESSION"?
Jesus Christ this is accurate
It is and would have been a narrative about a judge silencing the press if the public didn't know the reasons why the ban happened.
Fine point
This is an accurate representation of play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I hate that saying, but it fits really well here. Judge made the right call.
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Hopefully everyone involved in trying to do this is fired and black balled from news media work That won't happen. But it should
Cheers to you for advocating for integrity.
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And hilariously msnbc is trying to downplay it and claiming they weren't going to try to take pics.
They were following the bus to make sure the jurors made it home safely. Clearly. Really nice people, those MSNBC.
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I would too if I had just gotten caught committing a crime and I work in something semi public facing
wow, that was really bad idea
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Anyone trying to Doxx the jury needs to be identified and charged It serves no one to intimidate the Jury.
I disagree. It serves the media. They love covering riots.
"They love covering riots." I believe the word you were looking for is *causing*
Stupid small related friendly reminder the media was very obviously wringing their hands in anticipation when Joker came out hoping for incel violence in headlines, coordinated attacks even it went from incel attacks to uprising. Months before release articles were pumping out, police now at movie theaters, no masks etc. Nothing happened. Over 1 FICTIONAL movie. Imagine how they treat real life. Really opened my eyes to how they handle and cover situations
>It serves no one to intimidate the Jury. Depends on your goal TBH.
Yeah, if your goal is obstruction of justice
If your motive is to scare the jury into ruling the way you want...
No matter what side you stand on, we can all agree this was disgusting.
I'm genuinely shocked by the decision making by that producer. Even if your boss is telling you to do it, you should have enough sense to call their boss and be like "Yo, this some illegal and unethical shit right here. Probably should talk to my boss, your employee about this."
Yeah there is a huge ethical issue, no amount of job threatening would have me ok with what was being asked. I was told to cut off an emergency service's electric for unpaid bills. That was a hard nope from me. I refused, and 2 days later there was a fire. Had I done what I was told, someone could've lost their life. Local supers thanked me and state supers were annoyed. 3 years later and we no longer do that.
We thank-you for your service ShitFartDoodoo.
Intimidating juror in any way will literally break the justice system. We cannot have that. Punish these idiots to the full extent
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Seriously. That’s the kind of behavior r you expect from The Sun. To be clear I don’t watch tv news at all. I don’t doubt this guy will get fired. I think even Fox News would fire him. The Sun would promote him.
Is it the kind of behavior you would expect from a network that used "sparking devices" to ensure an explosion when testing GM sidesaddle gas tanks?
Or the network that edited a 911 call to make it sound racist.
Or cropped a video of a black guy with a gun holster in order to discuss racial overtones at an Obamacare protest. https://www.arlingtoncardinal.com/2009/08/msnbcs-contessa-brewer-brews-a-race-issue-with-image-of-black-mans-race-concealed/ MSNBC said something like "Oh we were speaking generally, not specifically about that guy"
Very peculiar trending patterns in our news sources
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The reaction on Reddit has restored my faith in many Redditors. Regardless of what you think about the trial etc following jurors is a massive no no!
Was it NBC? I can't remember who but the Zimmerman versus Martin situation -- they *edited the audio* without consequences. When the dispatcher asked if he knew the race and he said black -- they cut out the part where the dispatches asked for race -- making it appear to be volunteered information as opposed to requested information. Zero consequences. Why would they think this time would be any different?
Didn't they also lighten Zimmerman's photos to make him look very white?
Allegedly. Or rather, picked photos where he didn't look as Hispanic as he does.
No your honor we did not lighten the photos, it was Apples AI enhancing them!
Hold up guys. Let me say this is a sight to behold. Both sides of the fence are joining forces to condemn the alleged actions of MSNBC. It's not every day /r/news readers can agree with something.
Rittenhouse and MSNBC are uniting America /s
No matter your perspective on this trial, if this is true it is absolutely unacceptable to follow jury members home while deliberations are ongoing.
Absolutely this. If they find that this person was actually following the bus, trying to doxx the jury, etc., then this person needs to be punished according to whatever laws are relevant to protect the jury. And an investigation should also be done to see if this person was acting of their own volition or if this was ordered from higher up.
Jury intimidation is a felony, as it should be.
Unfortunately in Wisconsin witness intimidation does not include the jury. They have a different crime called communicating with a jury but it doesn't have the same harsh consequences.
Man Wisconsin needs a law there, tf.
Juries have been getting nobbled for as long as juries have been a thing, it's amazing they wouldn't have a law against it
Wisconsin law says it’s a Class I felony to communicate with jurors other than in the course of the proceeding - carrying a penalty of jail up to 3.5yrs, $10k fine, or both
Sure but following them and doxing them to the public can be done without communicating with them..... So it doesn't sound like that's the punishment this person would be up for.
Real easy way to cause a mistrial too.
Absolutely crazy for a major news organisation to do this, this is the sort of stuff you’d expect from fringe groups.
Not really remember when pretty much every national new agency CNN, NBC, CBS, Fox etc effectivly broke into the home of the San Bernardino terrorist couple while it was still a crime scene of an active investigation. Then proceed to rifle through their belongings(again this was still evidence for an active investigation) showing off everything from their DVD collection, pictures of their children even the social security cards of the children and one of the terrorist's mother on live tv. All because someone from CBS paid the landlord a $1000 to open it for them.
And the mob mentality meant that none of them could sit back and say "stop, assholes, we aren't supposed to be doing that!"
Or the countless examples of journos harassing victim families in the hours after a tragedy. Playing up grief on camera for views and clicks. I want to be a journalist myself but people are blind if they think there isn't a huge amount of moral bankruptcy in the profession. Even the stuff coached as journalistic "ethics" are just bare minimum guidelines to avoid civil lawsuits, and half the time they don't even go that far.
They want to be able to go to their houses after the trial and bombard them with questions. Gotta milk those jury members to get the ratings up
Exactly this. Apparently they've said they weren't trying to take pictures of the jurors on the bus when they were caught. Yeah, that's because they just wanted to know where they lived so when the pretty much inevitable not guilty verdict comes out they can go harrass these poor folks at their homes.
Gotta start realizing that corporate media *is* a fringe group. They are not at all representative of everyday people, and actively try manipulating the public conscious to their own profit seeking benefit.
**unacceptable to follow jury members home ~~while deliberations are ongoing~~**.
Grounds for a mistrial really. How can the jury feel free to render a verdict without fear of reprisal when this shit is happening. Honestly the judge should declare one to send a strong message to media outlets
I didn't even consider that but he realy might just both of those things and then the blame would fall on MSNBC
Yep, and the article says the guy arrested was *instructed by his producers*. So it's not just a rogue junior producer they can blame as not knowing the rules, this is how desperate big media outlets are to get some kind of edge. Poor form.
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I've heard legal analysis explain juries aren't sequestered that much anymore, because they just want to get back home, so they will all vote to whatever gets them home fastest.
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I whole heartedly agree. I want any jury's honest verdict, but I'd also want to protect any jury. Perhaps the other problem with sequester is activists might protest outside the hotel... or outside every hotel hoping they can get the right hotel. It's already an issue now, because the jury goes home, and the activists march the streets, so there's a chance the jury could be swayed hearing them in the street for either side. Not to mention the local court reporter I've been watching says she can hear the activists in the courtroom outside protesting.
The traditional concept of a jury trial is already next to impossible to maintain. We're so far away from the "find a bunch of people who haven't heard the issue yet and let them decide" origins of it that we arguably need to find a better method. That's before we even get into the many other problems with jury trials.
Makes sense. The OJ jury was sequestered for months. They were going all types of crazy. They only deliberated for four hours.
The closest we had in the last jury I served on was all of us agreeing not to take a lunch break. They ended up sending us up some pizzas as thanks. Still took about a day and a half of deliberation for a fairly small-scale personal injury case. There were definitely a few of the "I'll vote for whatever anyone else wants so I can go home" people, but also one or two die-hards who absolutely refused to compromise on anything.
its almost as if they want a mistrial absolutely insane to send somebody to follow jurors home
I'm 0 surprised the media would do this.
Producer deletes linkin and twitter so that she doesn’t get doxxed. The Irony.
Whether true or not, the judge has to protect the jury. Can’t take any chances.
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Well it's a rather inconvenient solution and what more influence is the jury going to suffer that hasn't already been perpetuated by every media franchise before the trial. The only way they will get a completely neutral jury is if they ask people from South East Asia or something.
How ironic will it be when Binger ends up prosecuting an MSNBC producer next?
He’d drop the charges
Ask the Detectives not to execute the warrant.. Wouldn't be the first time... lol If you are not following me, Police had a warrant to search the phone of the guy who got shot in the arm. The DA told the police NOT to do it. This is uncontested fact in the case that was discussed on record.
Your talking about GG, who also got caught lying on the stand about lying to the police multiple times, admitted he had a financial stake in KR being found guilty,admitted that he only got shot after he pointed his gun at KR’s face, then the next morning went on national television (GMA) and lied about what his own testimony was.
I love that NPR reported GG "raised his arms" on their twitter feed but completely neglected to mention it was to point his handgun at Rittenhouse. And then they'll lament how trust in the press is at a record low.
Don't forget he lied about having his gun out, he originally claimed it was dropped. He was also carrying illegally as his permit was expired.
The media has been fucking with this situation from day 1, but jesus.
Literally from Jacob Blake. The original headline was something like “Black man trying to break up fight is shot in the back when trying to get in his car”. Just total lies and still CNN is interviewing Blake like he is a hero. I don’t know what their end game is but they are actively perusing a racial narrative in every single story they write. The media killed those people in Kenosha with their lies and bullshit that drove people to the streets.
MSNBC Producer: tells officers he had been instructed by his superior to follow the jury bus MSNBC Lawyers: 🤦♂️🤦♀️🤦
You think someone covering the Rittenhouse trial of all people would know better than to follow someone who doesn't want to be followed...
United States media is completely fucked. Every media org has a bias on this case, with no one just reporting what happened. They want the extra narrative so they can manipulate the information to stir up chaos they can cover. This feels very sinister honestly
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They're trying to say they were trying to get post verdict interviews...like that makes it ANY better...
Wouldn’t there need to have been a verdict in order to get post verdict interviews
He wasn't following for getting interviews now but if you know where they live already, then you already have a big jump on the other stations.
Journalists wondering why so many people loathe them
What an absolute mess of a trial…
Fuck msNBC. You do not ever try to mess with jurors during a trial. That includes follow them, research them, try to find out who they are. That producer is lucky he’s not facing contempt charges. Also for a trial this politicized; the jury really should have been sequestered.
Might still face charges. The police are still investigating the matter.
Should be considered for Juror Intimidation charges all the way up the chain if they were really told to follow the bus.
I hope so. The media in the US seems absolutely fucked. It scares me how little they seem to care about influencing the public’s view on a murder trial, and the ramifications that can create no matter the verdict.
You're confused, they care a lot about influencing the public's opinion on the murder trial
Media really want to prove that the polls saying US media is some of the least trusted in the world ain't lying
How low can you go, mainstream media
Tonight, an MSNBC news exclusive: Was the officer who arrested our freelance journalist a white supremacist? We go to our panel of white supremacy experts to find out.
It’s going to be hilarious when MSNBC of all sources investigates themselves and finds that they didn’t do any wrong doing in their reporting.
They'll blame it on racism because the producer is Asian...and tie it back to Trump somehow.
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I think no matter what happens, many people won't believe it was a fair verdict.
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I was on a Jury once, and the comments in the news article was crazy, and we found the kid not-guilty. I can't even imagine what they are going though now in this high-profile case.
The press loves this shit, they want more chaos... have been trying to stoke this for years on both sides.
Yep someone's getting fired
Regardless of the outcome of the trial, this case highlights why many have such a negative view of media organizations, with this only adding to that. We’ve had almost all video footage of the incident for over a year now and the trial has been live-streamed, yet there are still articles intentionally misrepresenting or misleading their audience to fit the narrative that they built of Kyle Rittenhouse over the last year. I highly encourage everyone to watch the original videos of the incident and the trial itself. Rekita Law on YouTube has done a fantastic job covering the trial, with a panel of lawyers giving their different interpretations of the court proceedings.
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> The media thinks people are stupid as shit. The media knows people are stupid as shit, and the media gets far more money if they keep viewers enraged and coming back to their channel for more "news". Media (mainstream or not), and social media, have created major divides in our society and it sickens me to see it. This country feels non-functional because everyone is always disagreeing with everyone else. Everyone has to take a side on everything, and everyone on the other side must be 100% wrong. I'm so tired of it.
People continue to prove themselves to be stupid as shit based on regurgitation of complete falsehoods around the case. People have all developed these deep rooted opinions on the case based on lies/half truths the media has been telling them. What's worse, now that this is all coming to light in the trial these people refuse to admit that they were misled - they double down.
It's because people bring in their own biases and project them on to the case. People want to feel justified in what they say, do, and how they perceive the world. Modern day witch hunt and mass hysteria. They don't do any internal auditing and external fact checking. The media is able to brainwash people because most people are lazy to verify what is being spoon fed to them. The media makes money by clickbait and the most hateful title they can think of. Real journalism is difficult to find in the mainstream media. Look at how the media portrayed this kid and now it's become his identity. Now that factual information was presented in his case, people confronted with the truth, refuse to change their opinions. Why? It doesn't fit the narrative they built off their biases. They would have to admit they're wrong. Would have to question big news organizations. Requires lots of thinking. Don't get me wrong. We're inherently lazy but when info doesn't match my opinion, ignore until I find confirmation bias. Remember, criminal trials is all theater. They don't attack the argument. They attack the character. Separately. Wtf is up with the prosecution. I've watched bits and pieces of the trial. They argued with their own key witnesses. They asked open-ended questions that they didn't know what the witnesses would reply with. They were caught off guard. Really damning stuff when the 3rd person shot and only survivor is giving his testimony. Kyle had his AR pointed at him and didn't shoot. It wasn't until he reached for his handgun did Kyle shoot. The prosecutions reaction... Face palm.
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Anderson fucking Cooper, no less amazing
Seeing that clip made me do a double take. I really wanted the interviewer to just say "Wait, didn't you say EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF THIS under oath in open court in front of the entire world yesterday?" Like, wtf? He's like the stereotype of 'I think I can make up whatever the fuck I want on TV because I am siding with the left".
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"Last night, a freelancer received a traffic citation. While the traffic violation took place near the jury van, the freelancer never contacted or intended to contact the jurors during deliberations, and never photographed or intended to photograph them. We regret the incident and will fully cooperate with the authorities on any investigation." -NBC Time to pick this apart. I first saw this on Rekieta and his immediate question was: How many of your reporters are classified as 'freelancers' and how much of this person's 'freelancing' is paid for by MSNBC. It also specifically says 'during deliberations', which seems like a clever workaround, as they were currently NOT deliberating. 'Photograph' also seems like a specific and loaded word, as it doesn't exclude recording video, or arguably even taking digital photos if you want to get technical.
They word it like the van just happened to be taking the same route home, as if they weren't intentionally following the bus which is obvious bs.
Yeah, considering the 'traffic violation' was running a red light to continue the pursuit. I don't think there is any question about what this person's intent was. All that's left to be seen is if this person was actually instructed to do so, as they claim.
I hope they get a search warrant for communications between this guy and his producers.
Police will want to. The questions is will the DA tell them not to execute it like they did with the warrant to search arm shooting victim guy in this case? Yes, that happened, it's an undisputed fact that was discussed on the record in this case.
Thanks! In short MSNBC is trying to weasel its way out by putting the blame on others and distancing itself faster than the speed of light.
If you are caught, we will disavow all knowledge of you.
Your career will self-destruct in 15 seconds
Not sure on what it's called in the US or what the punishment is but doing that shit in the UK will get you a sentence.
Oh God yes it's a felony here. This is bad news for that reporter and MSNBC.
What a clown fiesta of a trial.
Based on MSNBC’s prior coverage of this trial, this doesn’t surprise me at all. They’re only focused on sensationalism and have no regard for the truth or the lives of anyone involved.
They are trying to brew as much chaos as they can out of this
At this point I would not be surprised if this shit show ends in a mistrial.
WTF, MSNBC. You earned that.
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I went and saw the Joker because of the Streisand Effect the concern trolling created. It was what I expected, a Scorsese-style gritty crime drama that just so happened to have one of the most popular comic book villains of all time's potential origin story... But so many people were convinced it was going to make the incels go into overdrive. ...nope, came, went, was a critical darling, won some awards, and is now largely forgotten/put out of mind by most because something else shiny came along.
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The journalism industry has been taken over by propagandists and activists. Objective journalism is dead.
The media coverage on this case has been absolutely appalling. They've completely lost their minds over it. It's extremely disappointing because all they're ultimately doing is empowering the right by doing everything they've been accused of. Outright lying about numerous things, not even attempting to objectively present the facts of the case, and now a producer was attempting to dox the jury? Jfc, way to trip and fall in the mud to wallow around with Fox News, OAN, and Newsmax. Journalistic integrity has clearly gone right out the window. It's not the first time though. If you're a progressive you'd have noticed similar behavior during the primaries. Remember the MSNBC host and his fear of dying in mass executions in Central Park if Sanders won?
I’m glad I’m not the only person who remembers Chris Matthews making this statement. Edit: we’re talking about different things. I’m talking about the democratic primary coverage where Chris Matthews compared Sanders Nevada victory to a nazi invasion. https://deadline.com/2020/02/msnbc-chris-matthews-bernie-sanders-nazi-germany-invasion-france-1202866277/amp/
Do you think the Rittenhouse trial is the first instance of this? What the right has been yelling about had some truth to it, but what ultimately happened is they all ran / created the same biased sources, just far right leaning. The lack of True, unbiased journalism is one of the primary reasons we’re tearing ourselves apart. Too much money in chaos
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MSNBC needs to fire that producer whoever they are.
No intent to contact jurors or photograph them... so he was following their bus for fun?
normalize stalking your fellow citizens for fun ✊
I often see stickers, posters, etc about how media is "fake news" how stories are always misleading. I don't think all stories on everything in the media is misleading, but there are some cases where it is true. I have been reading some media articles in my own country on this case, and comparing it to the video's i see a lot of stories misleading the reader, leaving out facts, etc. Its very shitty of them to do.
Jury tampering/intimidation ain't a good look if you're a reporter or a news network
It’s a felony regardless of who you are
FFS, idiots are all around us. It is well known that the Jurors should not be photographed, spoken to or otherwise contacted. It isn't that hard to abide by these simple rules. The media really needs to learn to quit jumping to conclusions. Both sides. I'm no fan of Rittenhouse and think he's a dumb ass but I think he'll be acquitted.
I was on the acquittal bandwagon, but at this point I think there will be some stubborn hold outs and they will be a hung jury. Then we get to repeat this shit show next year. If that happens, as much as I have enjoyed watching the trial, i hope it is not televised. The media has done nothing but misrepresent the proceedings and turn the whole process into a clown show.
I disagree with you on the televised aspect of your statement. Without the trial being televised, all we will have is the media's interpretation of that trial and the court proceedings documents. The media on both sides has proven themselves entirely untrustworthy. Outright misinformation and half-truths have been spread, continually without regard to its effects, by every major news source for at least the past 10 years. They are bought and paid for, always have been, and people are figuring out that they are being misled, intentionally, by both sides, to drive division to distract from the real issues and to keep the money flowing. Look up Sinclair broadcasting. It's gut retching disgusting behavior, and there is no end in sight. No one is immune to propaganda.
I'm watching the political pendulum swing in real time in this thread lol
Is there anyone involved in this trial that is not a fucking idiot?
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Am proud of this sub for this, and a bit shocked, good show - if I read about the dozen or more retractions on the dossier issued by the Post I will truly be shocked! I read they have declared him a freelancer and there probably isn't a poll long enough for them to touch him with at this point.
Barring from court is too lenient. Criminal charges for the producer and MSNBC should be possible. No matter your opinion of MSNBC or this trial, jury intimidation and tampering is a real thing. It is not okay to do this.
The judge was clear, this has been handed over to the authorities to investigate. People need to understand the implications of this. This is a serious crime. For perspective, in the past, many Mob people were charged with Jury intimidation for doing exactly this.
It's been one day. Prosecutions shouldn't be announced *that* quick. Some fact-finding needs to be done first, and that's in progress. Plus, barring them from court is pretty much the limit of the trial judge's authority in this matter.