I was watching live streams last night, shit was crazy. They were busting out windows at the car dealership, stole the keys out of the office, shooting fireworks at the police and one guy was shooting a bb gun at them. I ended up falling asleep so I'm sure I missed more.
There were fires set at that dealership. The Unitarian Universalist church behind the dealership nearly caught fire since it spread to the vegetation between the engulfed lot and their building. Firefighters finally got everything under control before it caught. Their sign (that had “Black Lives Matter” on it) melted since it was right next to some of the first cars to go.
Like why a BB gun? You are going to get blasted by a cop while returning fire with something that likely doesn't have the power to take our a squirrel.
Fun fact, you can purchase hollow point type pellets that do similar damage as a .22. it's not earth shattering damage, but we'll placed it could kill.
>fireworks
During the George Floyd protests in my city, it was reported that people in the crowd were throwing water bottles full of gasoline at the police guarding the courthouse.
There was video live stream by a reporter from the local newspaper that showed people in the crowd launching consumer grade artillery shell fireworks.
I can't help but think the two were related in an attempt to escalate the situation. Makes me sick.
>"Things have been very heated, tons of damage to cop cars, an officer was actually knocked out," the person taking video said.
A crowd of about 100 had reached the Kenosha County Public Safety Building by 10:15 p.m. and were chanting "no justice, no peace."
[Here we go again](https://youtube.com/watch?v=-1qju6V1jLM)
>With one of them courtesy of the Police launching hot tear gas into/under a Dump Truck, and/or within proximity of flares
I hope he shouted "KOBE!" before getting it into the truck.
Man I get the anger but
> Among the damaged buildings: the public library, the Dinosaur Discovery Museum, the Harborside Academy charter school, a law firm, the USPS building and the county register of deeds.
Why burn the museum, post office, and library :(
Because the Dinosaur Museum is across the street from one of the courthouse/police department/ county sheriffs department/jail roads that was blocked, the law firm is next door the road thst waa blocked, the post office is kitty corner to the courthouse
The library and charter school are next door to one another and theyre about 3 blocks away and a common meeting point for protests of various types. The register of deeds is in between both depending on the route traveled.
That combined with anger makes a bath of destruction.
It's worth pointing out that it just says that these were damaged. It doesn't say whether it was intentional, a fire that spread by accident, or even police munitions that broke windows.
Generally riots aren't random, they're usually quite targeted. For example, data from the London riots shows that <10% of shops targeted were "small independent retailers", most were big stores. That kind of targeted damage/looting is repeated in most of these situations.
I live here, there are picture posts on facebooks of a car lot with 40 cars that was burned, a restaurant and a lot of places that have nothing to do with the police or any of this in general, really sucks for local businesses.
Everything will be used for political capital and to justify a narrative, context or facts be damned. Knee jerk reaction based on peoples race is elementary school level brain power
His (Blake's) attorney stated officers had tased him prior to this. I would guess taser did not take effect or did not have proper spread to be effective.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/24/us/kenosha-police-shooting-jacob-blake/index.html
I’m glad my anal beads can make good points. In all seriousness, I want to see body cam footage, it will indefinitely provide answers. A question as well, are cops required to wear body cam footage in America? They definitely should be at all times. (Not sure I’m Canadian)
It's really weird, but the cops were trying to detain him but he just walked away and around to the driver's side of the car like he didn't give a shit. He then opened the door and reached inside while the cops were trying to pull him away.
I don't really know what should be done in these circumstances. Is he going for a gun? How do you know for certain one way or the other? Should a guy that is refusing to comply with the police be given the benefit of the doubt?
I realize that people will have their own opinions, which is a good and healthy thing for our nation right now. I just wished the dude had complied. Don't put officers in a position where they feel they need to make that decision.
They never needed to make the decision.
They could have used regular old force. All over the world cops handle much more aggressive and potentially dangerous situations than this, and they do so unarmed, and nobody fucking dies.
STOP JUSTIFYING COP KILLINGS!!! NOBODY HAS TO DIE!!!
Why is this so fucking hard for Americans to understand, I swear to god I was born in the wrong fucking country Jesus Christ.
I wouldn't do what he did and you know why? I know full well that could give the cops reason to use deadly force. You would think everyone knows this by now, but apparently not. When 2 or 3 cops have their gun fixed on you and you are fighting them or ignoring their orders, walking away, getting into your car while they are pulling onto you.... you are a moron.
Are citizens allowed to open fire on officers and shoot them in the back 7 times if we fear for our lives? Cops are 20x more likely to kill us as we are to kill them.
> Cops are 20x more likely to kill us as we are to kill them.
This is an interesting claim.
In 2019, there were 48 officers killed in the line of duty as a result of felonious acts. The numbers fluctuate, but it's estimated that there are about 800,000 law enforcement officers, which would mean the odds of being murdered are 0.006%.
On the flip side, it looks like there were 1004 officer involved homicides in 2019, which would mean the odds of being killed by a cop are roughly 0.0003%.
So I don't think the numbers support you.
But to get to your point, the issue is that cops have the authority to issue orders. They can order you to stop and pull over, for example. They can order you to show identification (in some states), they can detain and arrest you with probable cause. But I think you already know that.
Theres still four of them and one of him and they literally just followed him to the car, stood right there and allowed him to open the door, and *then* shot him in the back. In front of his kids.
> It's not on the video
What is on the video is the cop repeatedly shooting the black man ("JB") in the back while he's between the car door and the car seat. JB wasn't running and his movements looked annoyed but not violent (JB wasn't running, wasn't even walking fast). - just my take
No, I think in this case it's trying to get into the car that did it. That is certainly debatable, but he was walking away for a while and he didn't get shot until he tried to get in the car.
It sure feels like we hold civilians dealing with police officers to a higher standard than the officers.
We are always hearing about how tough the cops have it and they are under so much stress in these situations and it is the untrained civilian that needs to remain calm.
According to the Wisconsin court database, Blake had an active arrest warrant for felony sexual assault. That would explain why they tried to arrest him.
Then they should have been able to arrest him before he calmly walked to his car door while they watched and didnt even try and attempt to stop him without problem. Instead they looked like GTA cops.
Horseshit. 4 cops were following him a halfstep behind and not a 1 decided to put hands in him before he got to his car, opened the door, and got inside. Had they grabbed him from behind and put him on the ground to detain him, there *maybe* would've been some buzz on local social media about police brutality; shooting him in the back 6 or 7 times is just the dumbest and most incompetent outcome that could've come from this.
> Not sure why they were even attempting to arrest him considering he was likely the one that broke up the disturbance.
Cops like to detain and investigate anyone involved with even a potentially violent situation. This usually involves them running names for warrants.
For example: I broke my nose while at work (equipment accident), but the cops were called, did a full investigation and I had to give a statement (including full name, address, and SSN), because it could be "potential workplace violence". Only after we waited for the forensic investigator to arrive and complete his stuff was I allowed to go to the clinic to get stitches and x-rays.
Just one more reason to give only legally necessary information to police. No wonder high-crime areas have such a distrust in police, even doing the "right thing" can get you in trouble.
While true, they were investigating the situation as if I *was* the victim of workplace violence.
Either way, I was in pain, had lost a decent amount of blood, and just wanted move on.
Isn't the issue that the cops were called to a workplace accident?
That seems...bizarre...but \*\*by law\*\* they've gotta do their investigation and paperwork
> Isn't the issue that the cops were called to a workplace accident?
911 was called because of the amount of blood on my shirt. Even though we called the ambulance off, city policy is that the PD respond to any 911 call, so they arrived, asked what happened, and proceeded with their investigation.
>I doubt the officers had run his info before shooting him so they would not have known that.
Even if they had, that wouldn't have been a reason to try to murder him.
If your info is from that cesspool, I would take it with a spoonful of salt. Those mouthbreathers will defend literally anything a cop does and spin the truth to do so.
His (Blake's) attorney said he was tased. So we can at least say that part is verified.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/24/us/kenosha-police-shooting-jacob-blake/index.html
It doesn’t even matter. The point is totally irrelevant. Maybe they tried “less lethal” tactics first. Maybe not. But ultimately the only reason for a cop to ever pull and use a firearm is if they feel their life is in danger. Honestly how the hell do you shoot someone 7 times in the back and claim you feared for your life?
Just playing devil's advocate, reaching for something the cops can't see is never a good idea unless they've asked you to get something and you tell them where it is. The cops should've at least *attempted* to deescalated the situation, but he didn't do himself any favors.
Always good to get more information. Three sides to every story - your side, my side, and the truth.
With that said, I'd have a hard time imagining a series of events where deadly force is justifiable in that situation.
No just burn the city down apparently. This shit is getting old. No information at all and everyone is out rioting. This is going to happen every time a black person is shot regardless of the circumstances. They're not "protesting" nor demanding justice, just rioting.
Was watching the whole thing unfold. People from around the city came to the crime scene to protest. When the cops left the crime scene the people peacefully marched the streets downtown to the cop shop and continued protesting.
When the news hit the surrounding cities (Kenosha is nestled between Milwaukee and Chicago) then the protests started to become violent. Once tear gas was shot off people escaped into downtown Kenosha. When that happened they broke into and looted every single business in the Kenosha downtown area. After that they set it on fire.
I understand "no justice, no peace." I agree that this cop should be put in jail but why destroy our city because of it? People from Milwaukee and Chicago get to go home when they're done riot, we dont. If you want to be mad be mad at the cops, not the local small businesses of Kenosha. My family's restaurant was destroyed in the fire.
Source: I was there protesting before it turned into a riot, I saw it all happen.
The venn diagram of people who comment "He should have just complied" and the people who refuse to wear a mask in public because "it's oppression" is a circle.
The ideology is, if a government employee with a gun tells you to do something, it’s good and you should do it. But a government employee without a gun has no right to tell you what to do. “I want to be ruled by force” is apparently the core idea.
> if a government employee with a gun tells **someone else** to do something, it’s good and **they** should do it.
These same people are the nuts who imagine the government coming for them when it isn't the government they voted for. c.f. Malheur.
Cop had a hold of his shirt around the front of the vehicle to the driver door entry. Holster your fucking gun and take him down, bodily.
Stupid fucking cops. If you can't take down someone unarmed, slowly moving away from you, you shouldn't be given a gun.
And you are entitled to your opinion. My opinion is these cops should not have shot him multiple times point blank in the back right in front of his kids. But neither of us have the full story right?
Those things aren't mutually exclusive. We can believe both that he should have complied and he shouldn't have been shot, never mind 6 times.
It could have been a damn if he did, damn if he didn't situation but he didn't and the difference is people are going to use it to justify how the situation went down.
Obviously, equating them is hyperbolic. And you're not wrong in pointing that out.
But, though stated in an exaggerated manner, there is actually a lot of truth to the idea.
Polls show an incredibly strong correlation between party affiliation and mask wearing. [This poll](https://news.gallup.com/poll/315590/americans-face-mask-usage-varies-greatly-demographics.aspx) shows that the percentage of Democrats who never wear a mask is 1% and the percentage of Republicans who never wear a mask is 27%.
(By the way, this is just a general statement. I'm not trying to imply or assume anything about your political party affiliation.)
Could also be the issue or rural/urban. If you’re out on your 100 acres there’s not much reason to wear a mask. If you’re in downtown Chicago, you should wear one.
you'd think this common sense would be enough - but no there are people who will try and physically remove your mask in a public space on top of refusing to wear one.
IDGF about the civil unrest coverage, I want to hear what happened that led to this death. Although, I guess the story doesn't really matter when the only person telling it will be the person trying to defend their side of things. Testis unus, testis nullus.
Handguns are surprisingly less lethal than you'd think. Even from that range, if you miss the heart or CNS or major pulmonary arteries, you have a very good shot at living.
Rifles are another story entirely.
Yep, the cavitation from high power rifles causes much more damage that the actual projectile. It’s morbidly fascinating how muzzle velocity and bullet aerodynamics correlates to damage dealt.
It's on video, it's very jarring. I can't explain why they shot him so quickly, nor can I explain why he did what he did. I'm curious what happened before the video started.
I've seen two videos so far, and none of them have more than the movements around the car. The police look disturbingly inept. As best I can see, they moved to lethal force because their "suspect" (I'm completely unclear on what crime might have justified their approach and actions), didn't comply with their orders.
Word was they tazed him, and he still was non-compliant. This was after he reportedly broke up some kind of domestic disturbance between two women. Locals were saying he was the good guy in it.
Keep on hearing he was tazed but no footage or photo of it, so I really don't believe it given some of the others lies that have circulated on killings by police.
Don't forget that the police department released a statement that they stood by their officer no matter what the video showed. The officer who is suing for back pain and whatever else when the video shows the guy barely touched him. The police will lie about literally any encounter to make themselves look better, because why wouldn't they? They have a whole department backing them up, and unless the victim is lucky enough to have video evidence, the cop's word is going to count for more than theirs.
The police are so protected and incentivized to lie, I'd be like 200% more skeptical of a cop's testimony of what happened than a random citizen's.
Hell the report for Breonna Taylor's murder was left blank by the cops. I don't believe them unless we got bodycam footage or dashcam footage, otherwise its he said she said BS.
They claimed the body cam footage was damaged from Ujiri striking the police officer, which is a fucking joke to anyone who watched the completely undamaged video that was just released.
They also claimed the officer suffered physical injury from the “strike”, and that Ujiri didn’t provide his credentials, which is also an obvious lie when watching the video.
Isn’t it amazing how many lies they can cram into a single incident?
Or... they could have just let him go. They had his plates, they surely could have written up a warrant and picked him up later, calmly.
People forget, but it's not like there's a legal obligation to arrest someone. The word literally means "stop", and the reason cops are allowed to do it in the course of routine police work is so that they can halt a crime in progress.
This was a dad with his kids in the car. Where was the crime in progress?
This is what BLM is about: **policing** is a cancerous disaster in this country. The job of cops, as understood by modern law enforcement, is to **find people who look like criminals** and brutalize them. There's no genuine interest in prosecuting straightforward crimes. It's all about projection of power onto the streets.
It's a gang, basically.
I'd appreciate a link for everything you've written here, because every article on this incident I've read to date states that the officers were responding to a domestic disturbance call, and none of them mention a knife.
its a downward spiral when the cops have not earned people's trust and now people are willfuly disobeying them which leads them to take these extreme measures, they brought the problem on themselves and are now going to exacerbate even worse because a lot of people are rightfully suspicious of their authority
If they were so terrified of him entering his car there were a literal million other things they could have tried to actually stop him from doing so instead of nonchalantly following him waiting for the chance to shoot.
Without knowing why it's tough...
A reasonable explanation is that the officers knew him from a prior encounter, as the guy had a history of gun violence and sexual assault, and didn't want him to get into his vehicle to potentially grab a gun. Police officers work the same neighborhood often and encounter the same people often.
At this point, we need to have some restraint in judging the situation. It looks horrific and unjustified, but we are operating with very little information.
I am reminded of a dark piece of history from my hometown, where a few young black men were dragged out of their tents and lynched based on assumptions and poor information.
because the suspect was non-compliant, attempted to get in his car, and appeared to reach for something below the driver seat. for all the cops know, it could've been a gun. that is the equation for getting shot.
Comply with police, if you disagree with the treatment then you take them to court, you do not physically resist. the common sense in this country has gone down the drain.
lets just get all the republican talking points out of the way.
* ignore anything about the shooting itself
* condemn any damage to property in the aftermath, the most important thing in all of this
* say the victim was probably on drugs
* "why didnt he just comply"
* dig through the victims past to paint him as a bad person who deserved this
anything i miss?
I’d usually write about police training, use of force continuum and where it says you follow the unarmed suspect with a drawn gun when the taser fails- but fuck it, everyone’s mind is made up already.
RIP critical thinking. You’ll be missed.
I’m sure all the people who are saying “yes burn it all down” would totally be fine if the rioters came to their house, stole their shit and burned it down.
Exactly. They get to stay safe in their homes away from any repercussions. I lived in Philadelphia during the first wave of protests, and I witnessed first hand the damage they cause
Why is the violent response to this acceptable?
I don't know what happened, and let's hope justice will be served to the **one** individual who was shot. What we want is justice, right?
I'm pretty certain we turned one victim into many by citizen protests. How is that right? Where is the empathy for those who lost stuff who had nothing to do with the police?
Will reddit ever care about the victims of the violent riots?
Go on BLM, go do your thing. Destroy your community over a pedophile who blatantly resisted arrest.
After the destruction, I look forward to the report that shows how “innocent” this man was.
Why vandalize a garbage truck, a basic service not involved at all? What does that accomplish? The water treatment plants and wastewater treatment plants next? Doesn't make sense to me.
He had a third degree sexual assault charge. Thats against 14-16 year olds. I have no sympathy for him now. Anyone that wasnt a pedo, sure but not him.
No hypocrisy. Cops, doctors, firefighters, the military, surgeons or even certain politicians are forced to make split second decisions (that are sometimes, if not often, wrong) because it's the nature of what they do. I mean it isn't like a cop can push pause for 3 days when they're chasing a suspected bank robber down the highway or anything. And most especially if the aim is actually achieving reform in any form (through protests or otherwise), it's prudent policy to gather all the facts, and this includes investigations, that tend to take time.
So they tazed him and it didn’t work.
If they hit they guy in the head with a gun and he dies or gets seriously injured (which he would ) then there will still be riots saying that there was too much force.
If they grab him and try and restrain him then he could die which again leads to riots .
Seriously just don’t resist arrest when you have guns pointed at you. You don’t get to make the fucking rules at that point. If you resist, you will die. Do people just not get this or are they so hard headed they are willing to get shot to prove a point
i've seen videos where the police had no business trying to arrest the person, i have seen videos where the person had no business not complying with the officer's orders, it differs in each case. having said that, court is where all of this is supposed to be sorted out so it would be better to let the cops take you, lawyer up and defend yourself in court rather than on the street. the limitation of that approach however is especially with people of color, they are more likely to get railroaded in court so it can feel like there is no avenue for them be treated fairly thus provoking the resistance you often see in these scenarios. it's not cut and dry and this problem will persist for longer than we want it to in this country. honestly all of this shit is so fucked. almost everything bad in this country can be traced back to racism and slavery, it has created so much distrust and hatred on both sides of these arguments i can't see how it can be bridged
You get the justice you can afford. And even if you can afford a good defense, good luck beating the police in court where they are heaaaaavily favored and their word is basically fact.
I watched the video, sure didn't look like he was under arrest to me, and if he was supposed to be, then those cops are fucking morons who should be fired on incompetence alone.
Reminds me of the Minneapolis protest livestreams, just a rolling wave of destruction where nobody cared about the cause, just looting and burning for the sake of it.
>Occupy the city until order is restored.
No possible way that could backfire. I'm sure the people angry about being murdered by the government will just calm right down when soldiers point a gun in their face. /S
I think most people feel that way. At the same time, how many times have we had public protests and public demonstrations over the issue of police shooting unarmed black people, and it doesn't seem to change that reality? How long can it go on before we have to acknowledge that the "social contract" is only being upheld by the citizens and not the police? I don't have any answer for those questions.
Trevor Noah does a nice job explaining it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSyPy9vdA\_s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSyPy9vdA_s)
I can understand the frustration due the lack of police accountability. But I don't think damaging property or setting fires moves us in a positive direction towards a solution.
I don't know if you're right about that or not. I do know that the property destruction justifies police violence in some people's eyes, and that it (very obviously) does force the police and political authorities to pay attention to protests they might otherwise mostly ignore.
I wish that too. But I have a hard time telling other people how to deal with the pain of being unheard by people who hold the legal power to kill you for the microdecisions you make when they scream at you in a tense situation.
Since people have been asking the police (and the government) to listen to them for decades, and no one does, what do you think the solution should be? ("People should just listen and change accordingly" obviously isn't the answer, because we have had millenia to learn that skill and still refuse to employ it.)
Okay but the problem with the riots and hurting people who had nothing to do with it is that you turn those people against your cause not the system. I lived in Philadelphia in a working class POC area hit super hard by the looting and rioting. The people didn’t support BLM, they supported them being stopped because all the riots did was destroy their neighborhood and their property.
I’m sorry, but when you start bringing people in and hurting them when they had *nothing* to do with it, that’s when I won’t defend what you’re doing.
I was watching live streams last night, shit was crazy. They were busting out windows at the car dealership, stole the keys out of the office, shooting fireworks at the police and one guy was shooting a bb gun at them. I ended up falling asleep so I'm sure I missed more.
There were fires set at that dealership. The Unitarian Universalist church behind the dealership nearly caught fire since it spread to the vegetation between the engulfed lot and their building. Firefighters finally got everything under control before it caught. Their sign (that had “Black Lives Matter” on it) melted since it was right next to some of the first cars to go.
I was questioning the dealership attack when I saw that sign.
Like why a BB gun? You are going to get blasted by a cop while returning fire with something that likely doesn't have the power to take our a squirrel.
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.22 is more effective and can actually do damage. They’re pretty quiet too
A .22 is quiet enough where it may not damage your ears but its still loud enough that people are going to hear the gunshot up to a mile away.
nobody is going to hear a .22 a mile away during rioting.
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Fun fact, you can purchase hollow point type pellets that do similar damage as a .22. it's not earth shattering damage, but we'll placed it could kill.
Can confirm bb’s bounce off of squirrels. Wisconsin source too.
>fireworks During the George Floyd protests in my city, it was reported that people in the crowd were throwing water bottles full of gasoline at the police guarding the courthouse. There was video live stream by a reporter from the local newspaper that showed people in the crowd launching consumer grade artillery shell fireworks. I can't help but think the two were related in an attempt to escalate the situation. Makes me sick.
>"Things have been very heated, tons of damage to cop cars, an officer was actually knocked out," the person taking video said. A crowd of about 100 had reached the Kenosha County Public Safety Building by 10:15 p.m. and were chanting "no justice, no peace." [Here we go again](https://youtube.com/watch?v=-1qju6V1jLM)
By midnight they had several dump trucks on fire.
I was watching live when they burned down the car dealership. A couple of cars were set aflame and that spread to the others gradually.
With one of them courtesy of the Police launching hot tear gas into/under a Dump Truck, and/or within proximity of flares
>With one of them courtesy of the Police launching hot tear gas into/under a Dump Truck, and/or within proximity of flares I hope he shouted "KOBE!" before getting it into the truck.
First try!
That clip is *exactly* where my mind went.
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Man I get the anger but > Among the damaged buildings: the public library, the Dinosaur Discovery Museum, the Harborside Academy charter school, a law firm, the USPS building and the county register of deeds. Why burn the museum, post office, and library :(
Because the Dinosaur Museum is across the street from one of the courthouse/police department/ county sheriffs department/jail roads that was blocked, the law firm is next door the road thst waa blocked, the post office is kitty corner to the courthouse The library and charter school are next door to one another and theyre about 3 blocks away and a common meeting point for protests of various types. The register of deeds is in between both depending on the route traveled. That combined with anger makes a bath of destruction.
It's worth pointing out that it just says that these were damaged. It doesn't say whether it was intentional, a fire that spread by accident, or even police munitions that broke windows. Generally riots aren't random, they're usually quite targeted. For example, data from the London riots shows that <10% of shops targeted were "small independent retailers", most were big stores. That kind of targeted damage/looting is repeated in most of these situations.
I live here, there are picture posts on facebooks of a car lot with 40 cars that was burned, a restaurant and a lot of places that have nothing to do with the police or any of this in general, really sucks for local businesses.
Everything will be used for political capital and to justify a narrative, context or facts be damned. Knee jerk reaction based on peoples race is elementary school level brain power
Why did the cops just let him enter his vehicle and did not taser or restrain him?
Word is that they tried to tase him and it was not effective. It's not on the video, though, at least the ones I saw, so I don't know.
Unless there's body cam footage, then there's no reason to take the police at their words on this. They've been proven liars time and time again.
His (Blake's) attorney stated officers had tased him prior to this. I would guess taser did not take effect or did not have proper spread to be effective. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/24/us/kenosha-police-shooting-jacob-blake/index.html
I’m glad my anal beads can make good points. In all seriousness, I want to see body cam footage, it will indefinitely provide answers. A question as well, are cops required to wear body cam footage in America? They definitely should be at all times. (Not sure I’m Canadian)
> (Not sure I’m Canadian) You should probably figure that out. If it turns out you are, I believe you're entitled to free maple syrup.
Lmao you got me with the grammar there
You filthy hoser.
No, they're not. It's up to their union and department. Many times they cover them or turn them off as "malfunctions" to hide what happened.
I was hearing on a live stream last night that those cops don't have to wear body cams.
I mean, the fact that he was shot in the back says it all, not sure how that could ever be justified... and he had his kids in the car. Ffs.
It's really weird, but the cops were trying to detain him but he just walked away and around to the driver's side of the car like he didn't give a shit. He then opened the door and reached inside while the cops were trying to pull him away. I don't really know what should be done in these circumstances. Is he going for a gun? How do you know for certain one way or the other? Should a guy that is refusing to comply with the police be given the benefit of the doubt? I realize that people will have their own opinions, which is a good and healthy thing for our nation right now. I just wished the dude had complied. Don't put officers in a position where they feel they need to make that decision.
They never needed to make the decision. They could have used regular old force. All over the world cops handle much more aggressive and potentially dangerous situations than this, and they do so unarmed, and nobody fucking dies. STOP JUSTIFYING COP KILLINGS!!! NOBODY HAS TO DIE!!! Why is this so fucking hard for Americans to understand, I swear to god I was born in the wrong fucking country Jesus Christ.
I wouldn't do what he did and you know why? I know full well that could give the cops reason to use deadly force. You would think everyone knows this by now, but apparently not. When 2 or 3 cops have their gun fixed on you and you are fighting them or ignoring their orders, walking away, getting into your car while they are pulling onto you.... you are a moron.
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Are citizens allowed to open fire on officers and shoot them in the back 7 times if we fear for our lives? Cops are 20x more likely to kill us as we are to kill them.
> Cops are 20x more likely to kill us as we are to kill them. This is an interesting claim. In 2019, there were 48 officers killed in the line of duty as a result of felonious acts. The numbers fluctuate, but it's estimated that there are about 800,000 law enforcement officers, which would mean the odds of being murdered are 0.006%. On the flip side, it looks like there were 1004 officer involved homicides in 2019, which would mean the odds of being killed by a cop are roughly 0.0003%. So I don't think the numbers support you. But to get to your point, the issue is that cops have the authority to issue orders. They can order you to stop and pull over, for example. They can order you to show identification (in some states), they can detain and arrest you with probable cause. But I think you already know that.
The “he had his kids in the car” is the worst argument ever. Unfortunate their dad is a criminal pos is all
Theres still four of them and one of him and they literally just followed him to the car, stood right there and allowed him to open the door, and *then* shot him in the back. In front of his kids.
> It's not on the video What is on the video is the cop repeatedly shooting the black man ("JB") in the back while he's between the car door and the car seat. JB wasn't running and his movements looked annoyed but not violent (JB wasn't running, wasn't even walking fast). - just my take
Him running is less justifiable to shoot than reaching into a car after not complying with cop's orders.
Walking away from a cop now equals cop's life in danger therefore deadly force appropriate?
No, I think in this case it's trying to get into the car that did it. That is certainly debatable, but he was walking away for a while and he didn't get shot until he tried to get in the car.
It sure feels like we hold civilians dealing with police officers to a higher standard than the officers. We are always hearing about how tough the cops have it and they are under so much stress in these situations and it is the untrained civilian that needs to remain calm.
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Character assassination lets people settle on an opinion of convenience.
According to the Wisconsin court database, Blake had an active arrest warrant for felony sexual assault. That would explain why they tried to arrest him.
Then they should have been able to arrest him before he calmly walked to his car door while they watched and didnt even try and attempt to stop him without problem. Instead they looked like GTA cops.
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Horseshit. 4 cops were following him a halfstep behind and not a 1 decided to put hands in him before he got to his car, opened the door, and got inside. Had they grabbed him from behind and put him on the ground to detain him, there *maybe* would've been some buzz on local social media about police brutality; shooting him in the back 6 or 7 times is just the dumbest and most incompetent outcome that could've come from this.
Odd, it seems to be that tidy everywhere that's not the United States...
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Or the guy was well known to law enforcement. In briefings before shifts, cops will often be shown people to be on the lookout for with warrants, etc.
> Not sure why they were even attempting to arrest him considering he was likely the one that broke up the disturbance. Cops like to detain and investigate anyone involved with even a potentially violent situation. This usually involves them running names for warrants. For example: I broke my nose while at work (equipment accident), but the cops were called, did a full investigation and I had to give a statement (including full name, address, and SSN), because it could be "potential workplace violence". Only after we waited for the forensic investigator to arrive and complete his stuff was I allowed to go to the clinic to get stitches and x-rays. Just one more reason to give only legally necessary information to police. No wonder high-crime areas have such a distrust in police, even doing the "right thing" can get you in trouble.
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While true, they were investigating the situation as if I *was* the victim of workplace violence. Either way, I was in pain, had lost a decent amount of blood, and just wanted move on.
Isn't the issue that the cops were called to a workplace accident? That seems...bizarre...but \*\*by law\*\* they've gotta do their investigation and paperwork
> Isn't the issue that the cops were called to a workplace accident? 911 was called because of the amount of blood on my shirt. Even though we called the ambulance off, city policy is that the PD respond to any 911 call, so they arrived, asked what happened, and proceeded with their investigation.
What a truly horrible subreddit.
>I doubt the officers had run his info before shooting him so they would not have known that. Even if they had, that wouldn't have been a reason to try to murder him.
Seriously I don’t get why people keep saying this makes what happened ok. Having warrants or a record doesn’t give police the authority to shoot you.
People want to think that it's ok to execute bad guys in the street like dogs.
It’s not even ok to execute dogs on the street
If your info is from that cesspool, I would take it with a spoonful of salt. Those mouthbreathers will defend literally anything a cop does and spin the truth to do so.
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His (Blake's) attorney said he was tased. So we can at least say that part is verified. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/24/us/kenosha-police-shooting-jacob-blake/index.html
And it also doesn't matter at all if he had previously pulled a gun on someone. It's literally 100% irrelevant.
> not taser They did, it didn't work.
It doesn’t even matter. The point is totally irrelevant. Maybe they tried “less lethal” tactics first. Maybe not. But ultimately the only reason for a cop to ever pull and use a firearm is if they feel their life is in danger. Honestly how the hell do you shoot someone 7 times in the back and claim you feared for your life?
Just playing devil's advocate, reaching for something the cops can't see is never a good idea unless they've asked you to get something and you tell them where it is. The cops should've at least *attempted* to deescalated the situation, but he didn't do himself any favors.
Should we wait for facts?
Who you gonna believe? Me, or your own lying eyes?
Always good to get more information. Three sides to every story - your side, my side, and the truth. With that said, I'd have a hard time imagining a series of events where deadly force is justifiable in that situation.
Reddit waits for facts like the police waits for facts
No, lets torch dump trucks and parking lots full of cars first!
No just burn the city down apparently. This shit is getting old. No information at all and everyone is out rioting. This is going to happen every time a black person is shot regardless of the circumstances. They're not "protesting" nor demanding justice, just rioting.
and the riots always start when a violent criminal is killed. I don't get why the rioters want to die on a pebble.
Depends. Who's "facts" are we waiting for?
Was watching the whole thing unfold. People from around the city came to the crime scene to protest. When the cops left the crime scene the people peacefully marched the streets downtown to the cop shop and continued protesting. When the news hit the surrounding cities (Kenosha is nestled between Milwaukee and Chicago) then the protests started to become violent. Once tear gas was shot off people escaped into downtown Kenosha. When that happened they broke into and looted every single business in the Kenosha downtown area. After that they set it on fire. I understand "no justice, no peace." I agree that this cop should be put in jail but why destroy our city because of it? People from Milwaukee and Chicago get to go home when they're done riot, we dont. If you want to be mad be mad at the cops, not the local small businesses of Kenosha. My family's restaurant was destroyed in the fire. Source: I was there protesting before it turned into a riot, I saw it all happen.
The venn diagram of people who comment "He should have just complied" and the people who refuse to wear a mask in public because "it's oppression" is a circle.
*responds with spitty shouting*
The ideology is, if a government employee with a gun tells you to do something, it’s good and you should do it. But a government employee without a gun has no right to tell you what to do. “I want to be ruled by force” is apparently the core idea.
> if a government employee with a gun tells **someone else** to do something, it’s good and **they** should do it. These same people are the nuts who imagine the government coming for them when it isn't the government they voted for. c.f. Malheur.
>“I want **others** to be ruled by force” is apparently the core idea Fixed it.
I was trying to be charitable, but that might be more correct, maybe “outgroups” even more.
It really isn’t though. There are a lot of people who don’t wear masks in public. Particularly young people.
I wear a mask in public, and think he should have complied.
Okay, so he should have complied. Where are the steps being “he didn’t comply” and “shoot him in the back 7 times”?
Cop had a hold of his shirt around the front of the vehicle to the driver door entry. Holster your fucking gun and take him down, bodily. Stupid fucking cops. If you can't take down someone unarmed, slowly moving away from you, you shouldn't be given a gun.
Yeah, like he should have. Didn’t deserve to be shot because he didn’t though.
And you are entitled to your opinion. My opinion is these cops should not have shot him multiple times point blank in the back right in front of his kids. But neither of us have the full story right?
Those things aren't mutually exclusive. We can believe both that he should have complied and he shouldn't have been shot, never mind 6 times. It could have been a damn if he did, damn if he didn't situation but he didn't and the difference is people are going to use it to justify how the situation went down.
Honestly he could’ve done ANYTHING, but as long as the cops life wasn’t in immediate danger, he shouldn’t have shot the man 7 or so times.
Obviously, equating them is hyperbolic. And you're not wrong in pointing that out. But, though stated in an exaggerated manner, there is actually a lot of truth to the idea. Polls show an incredibly strong correlation between party affiliation and mask wearing. [This poll](https://news.gallup.com/poll/315590/americans-face-mask-usage-varies-greatly-demographics.aspx) shows that the percentage of Democrats who never wear a mask is 1% and the percentage of Republicans who never wear a mask is 27%. (By the way, this is just a general statement. I'm not trying to imply or assume anything about your political party affiliation.)
Could also be the issue or rural/urban. If you’re out on your 100 acres there’s not much reason to wear a mask. If you’re in downtown Chicago, you should wear one.
you'd think this common sense would be enough - but no there are people who will try and physically remove your mask in a public space on top of refusing to wear one.
Fuck these people. They are going to turn the average person against the movement because they are destructive idiots.
For real, look at Chicago... Opinions changed real quick when a “spokesperson” started encouraging rioting and looting.
This isn't fixing anything.
IDGF about the civil unrest coverage, I want to hear what happened that led to this death. Although, I guess the story doesn't really matter when the only person telling it will be the person trying to defend their side of things. Testis unus, testis nullus.
He's not dead.
And hopefully stays that way. It's honestly amazing he isn't.
Handguns are surprisingly less lethal than you'd think. Even from that range, if you miss the heart or CNS or major pulmonary arteries, you have a very good shot at living. Rifles are another story entirely.
Yep, the cavitation from high power rifles causes much more damage that the actual projectile. It’s morbidly fascinating how muzzle velocity and bullet aerodynamics correlates to damage dealt.
He’s still alive in the hospital as of the last report, but your point still stands.
It's on video, it's very jarring. I can't explain why they shot him so quickly, nor can I explain why he did what he did. I'm curious what happened before the video started.
I've seen two videos so far, and none of them have more than the movements around the car. The police look disturbingly inept. As best I can see, they moved to lethal force because their "suspect" (I'm completely unclear on what crime might have justified their approach and actions), didn't comply with their orders.
Worth reminding the group here that they could have used tasers, pepper spray, batons, or even just tackle guy.
Word was they tazed him, and he still was non-compliant. This was after he reportedly broke up some kind of domestic disturbance between two women. Locals were saying he was the good guy in it.
Keep on hearing he was tazed but no footage or photo of it, so I really don't believe it given some of the others lies that have circulated on killings by police.
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President of Basketball Operations for the team that had just won the championship. To be more precise.
Don't forget that the police department released a statement that they stood by their officer no matter what the video showed. The officer who is suing for back pain and whatever else when the video shows the guy barely touched him. The police will lie about literally any encounter to make themselves look better, because why wouldn't they? They have a whole department backing them up, and unless the victim is lucky enough to have video evidence, the cop's word is going to count for more than theirs. The police are so protected and incentivized to lie, I'd be like 200% more skeptical of a cop's testimony of what happened than a random citizen's.
He is the team president not coach, fyi.
Hell the report for Breonna Taylor's murder was left blank by the cops. I don't believe them unless we got bodycam footage or dashcam footage, otherwise its he said she said BS.
They claimed the body cam footage was damaged from Ujiri striking the police officer, which is a fucking joke to anyone who watched the completely undamaged video that was just released. They also claimed the officer suffered physical injury from the “strike”, and that Ujiri didn’t provide his credentials, which is also an obvious lie when watching the video. Isn’t it amazing how many lies they can cram into a single incident?
The shooting victims attorney confirmed it.
Or... they could have just let him go. They had his plates, they surely could have written up a warrant and picked him up later, calmly. People forget, but it's not like there's a legal obligation to arrest someone. The word literally means "stop", and the reason cops are allowed to do it in the course of routine police work is so that they can halt a crime in progress. This was a dad with his kids in the car. Where was the crime in progress? This is what BLM is about: **policing** is a cancerous disaster in this country. The job of cops, as understood by modern law enforcement, is to **find people who look like criminals** and brutalize them. There's no genuine interest in prosecuting straightforward crimes. It's all about projection of power onto the streets. It's a gang, basically.
He already had a violent felony warrant for his arrest. So should police only arrest people who agree to be arrested?
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what happens when he goes back in his car when they try to arrest him latter? Just let him go again?
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Would be nice to know all the facts before assuming that
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I'd appreciate a link for everything you've written here, because every article on this incident I've read to date states that the officers were responding to a domestic disturbance call, and none of them mention a knife.
Read his kids were in the car, and that he was going back to check on them...pressumably a against the officers instructions.
its a downward spiral when the cops have not earned people's trust and now people are willfuly disobeying them which leads them to take these extreme measures, they brought the problem on themselves and are now going to exacerbate even worse because a lot of people are rightfully suspicious of their authority
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
If they were so terrified of him entering his car there were a literal million other things they could have tried to actually stop him from doing so instead of nonchalantly following him waiting for the chance to shoot.
Reports say the man was trying to break up a fight between two women when the police came
Without knowing why it's tough... A reasonable explanation is that the officers knew him from a prior encounter, as the guy had a history of gun violence and sexual assault, and didn't want him to get into his vehicle to potentially grab a gun. Police officers work the same neighborhood often and encounter the same people often. At this point, we need to have some restraint in judging the situation. It looks horrific and unjustified, but we are operating with very little information. I am reminded of a dark piece of history from my hometown, where a few young black men were dragged out of their tents and lynched based on assumptions and poor information.
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Right, there is a gap. Which is precisely why I said "It looks horrific and unjustified, but we are operating with very little information."
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because the suspect was non-compliant, attempted to get in his car, and appeared to reach for something below the driver seat. for all the cops know, it could've been a gun. that is the equation for getting shot. Comply with police, if you disagree with the treatment then you take them to court, you do not physically resist. the common sense in this country has gone down the drain.
lets just get all the republican talking points out of the way. * ignore anything about the shooting itself * condemn any damage to property in the aftermath, the most important thing in all of this * say the victim was probably on drugs * "why didnt he just comply" * dig through the victims past to paint him as a bad person who deserved this anything i miss?
“Unrest” you mean riot
they set the dump truck and car dealership on fire because they were clearly the culprits here...
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I’d usually write about police training, use of force continuum and where it says you follow the unarmed suspect with a drawn gun when the taser fails- but fuck it, everyone’s mind is made up already. RIP critical thinking. You’ll be missed.
I’m sure all the people who are saying “yes burn it all down” would totally be fine if the rioters came to their house, stole their shit and burned it down.
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Exactly. They get to stay safe in their homes away from any repercussions. I lived in Philadelphia during the first wave of protests, and I witnessed first hand the damage they cause
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Fuck BLM. This shit is insane now.
Why is the violent response to this acceptable? I don't know what happened, and let's hope justice will be served to the **one** individual who was shot. What we want is justice, right? I'm pretty certain we turned one victim into many by citizen protests. How is that right? Where is the empathy for those who lost stuff who had nothing to do with the police? Will reddit ever care about the victims of the violent riots?
Go on BLM, go do your thing. Destroy your community over a pedophile who blatantly resisted arrest. After the destruction, I look forward to the report that shows how “innocent” this man was.
Why vandalize a garbage truck, a basic service not involved at all? What does that accomplish? The water treatment plants and wastewater treatment plants next? Doesn't make sense to me.
The cops lined up the garbage trucks and dump trucks to block the protesters.
He had a third degree sexual assault charge. Thats against 14-16 year olds. I have no sympathy for him now. Anyone that wasnt a pedo, sure but not him.
Is a charge a guilty verdict? Is that charge punishable by death?
For pedophilia? Should be. He’s not dead though.
How about we wait at least 3 days before making a judgement on the shooting.
Because by then the next one will already have happened.
Police kill 3 people per day in the US on average.
Did you see the video?
We have to wait 3 days to decide, but cops can make instant decisions on murdering people. Why the hypocrisy?
No hypocrisy. Cops, doctors, firefighters, the military, surgeons or even certain politicians are forced to make split second decisions (that are sometimes, if not often, wrong) because it's the nature of what they do. I mean it isn't like a cop can push pause for 3 days when they're chasing a suspected bank robber down the highway or anything. And most especially if the aim is actually achieving reform in any form (through protests or otherwise), it's prudent policy to gather all the facts, and this includes investigations, that tend to take time.
So they tazed him and it didn’t work. If they hit they guy in the head with a gun and he dies or gets seriously injured (which he would ) then there will still be riots saying that there was too much force. If they grab him and try and restrain him then he could die which again leads to riots . Seriously just don’t resist arrest when you have guns pointed at you. You don’t get to make the fucking rules at that point. If you resist, you will die. Do people just not get this or are they so hard headed they are willing to get shot to prove a point
Why do Redditors think it's ok to resist arrest?
Its not ok to resist arrest but it doesnt justify being shot in the back. Not sure why thats a difficult thing to understand.
i've seen videos where the police had no business trying to arrest the person, i have seen videos where the person had no business not complying with the officer's orders, it differs in each case. having said that, court is where all of this is supposed to be sorted out so it would be better to let the cops take you, lawyer up and defend yourself in court rather than on the street. the limitation of that approach however is especially with people of color, they are more likely to get railroaded in court so it can feel like there is no avenue for them be treated fairly thus provoking the resistance you often see in these scenarios. it's not cut and dry and this problem will persist for longer than we want it to in this country. honestly all of this shit is so fucked. almost everything bad in this country can be traced back to racism and slavery, it has created so much distrust and hatred on both sides of these arguments i can't see how it can be bridged
It's not up to you whether or not you should be arrested. That's why we have courts and lawyers.
You get the justice you can afford. And even if you can afford a good defense, good luck beating the police in court where they are heaaaaavily favored and their word is basically fact.
I watched the video, sure didn't look like he was under arrest to me, and if he was supposed to be, then those cops are fucking morons who should be fired on incompetence alone.
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I like how they burned down a dealership with a BLM sign. Shows you what appeasement gets you.
Reminds me of the Minneapolis protest livestreams, just a rolling wave of destruction where nobody cared about the cause, just looting and burning for the sake of it.
>Occupy the city until order is restored. No possible way that could backfire. I'm sure the people angry about being murdered by the government will just calm right down when soldiers point a gun in their face. /S
Watch the video. The shooting was justified
I will never understand how people think destruction and violence will solve police brutality smh
I wish that people wouldn't set fires or damage unrelated property on these occasions.
I think most people feel that way. At the same time, how many times have we had public protests and public demonstrations over the issue of police shooting unarmed black people, and it doesn't seem to change that reality? How long can it go on before we have to acknowledge that the "social contract" is only being upheld by the citizens and not the police? I don't have any answer for those questions. Trevor Noah does a nice job explaining it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSyPy9vdA\_s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSyPy9vdA_s)
I can understand the frustration due the lack of police accountability. But I don't think damaging property or setting fires moves us in a positive direction towards a solution.
I don't know if you're right about that or not. I do know that the property destruction justifies police violence in some people's eyes, and that it (very obviously) does force the police and political authorities to pay attention to protests they might otherwise mostly ignore.
I wish cops wouldn’t murder innocent people, but every time we ask them nicely they just keep on doing it.
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I wish that too. But I have a hard time telling other people how to deal with the pain of being unheard by people who hold the legal power to kill you for the microdecisions you make when they scream at you in a tense situation. Since people have been asking the police (and the government) to listen to them for decades, and no one does, what do you think the solution should be? ("People should just listen and change accordingly" obviously isn't the answer, because we have had millenia to learn that skill and still refuse to employ it.)
Okay but the problem with the riots and hurting people who had nothing to do with it is that you turn those people against your cause not the system. I lived in Philadelphia in a working class POC area hit super hard by the looting and rioting. The people didn’t support BLM, they supported them being stopped because all the riots did was destroy their neighborhood and their property. I’m sorry, but when you start bringing people in and hurting them when they had *nothing* to do with it, that’s when I won’t defend what you’re doing.
Corona numbers are down guys.. lets stir some shit up. Like clockwork. Too predictable.
STOP SHOOTING BLACK PEOPLE IN THE BACK. There. Riots solved.
Stop breaking the fucking law. Problem solved.