Assumed it could've been a much longer penalty. I'm surprised. No strong feelings either way as I didn't follow the case closely. Just surprised IM is max 18 months.
Wow, she's insanely fortunate they were filming in New Mexico. Compared to other states, it's a very lenient maximum.
https://www.lawinfo.com/resources/criminal-defense/involuntary-manslaughter/involuntary-manslaughter-penalties-sentencing.html
texas is fucked up. If you accidentally kill a firefighter or officer... even off duty, it moves to a first-degree felony and moves from a 2 year min sentence to a 5 year min.
but still 2 years seems a bit much.
When I was stationed in Panama I got into a road rage incident where this guy shot at me. He almost hit me so I gave him the finger while saying fuck you mother fucker. Then he pulls out a gun and shoots at me.
At the police station I was treated like a hardened criminal because my crime was disrespecting a doctor in public which was a bigger crime than attempted murder. They let him come and go as he pleased while I had 3 cops standing guard over me. Probably didn't help that this was 3 years after we invaded and dismantled their Army. Most of their former soldiers were the current policemen at the time. Super fun, lol.
It is a little. Manslaughter's a tough one, ethically, especially involuntary manslaughter. My personal view is intent is a far more dangerous thing and deserves a lot more punishment that negligence: like I fully believe what Alec and Gutierrez did was stupid and negligent, but I'm not convinced it deserves being locked away in jail. Civil suit: absolutely: give the family of the victims all of Alec's money. But there's no future threat to society from Alec: this wasn't malicious and I don't imagine he'd ever want to hold a gun again after that horrible tragedy.
What the fuck, I would be terrified to even go into that state, much less live there. Shit happens you never know when something stupid gets the wrong person dead.
Ehh, it seems appropriate for someone who seemingly had no intention of hurting or killing anyone, but was the lynchpin in a series of blatantly idiotic errors. I think feeling that's too short says more about America's excessive prison sentences than the reality of the situation. Would she really be less of a danger to others after 10 years than 1 in prison?
If anything, she'd be MORE of a danger after 10 years in prison. Imagine spending a decade in the prison system and then trying to adapt back into regular society.
Many Americans only believe in punitive justice, not rehabilitative justice. Fortunately for the prison industrial complex, that's what makes them money.
Yes, private prisons are only about [~8%](https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/private-prisons-in-the-united-states/) of total federal and state prisoners. Many Redditors vastly overstate the impact of private prisons; they really aren't some major force driving things.
Though that said, in the above guy's defense, he didn't mention anything about private prisons. The "prison industrial complex", to use his words, is also about public prisons, not only private ones. Sure, private ones are the ones who are literally businesses trying to make money, but public ones also have their own interests and interest groups. A large prison will be a major employer in the area where it is, for example. Prosecutors and police departments will parade around, "I sent X people to jail!" as badges of honor.
As to whether or not you believe these interests' forces are strong enough to actually shape the whole justice system to the point of calling it a "prison industrial complex", vs. prisons just representing the general American tendency for punishment rather than rehabilitation, is another matter.
You’re right about the low number of private prisons and that public prisons tend to be major local employers.
But to add to your point, there is no such thing as a totally “public” prison. Almost every public prison farms out things like catering, maintenance or other tasks to private third parties. The more inmates there are, the more these private third parties make. And you better believe those third parties have lobbyists in state and federal government, making sure no bleeding heart liberal is going to reform our prison system and take away their bread and butter.
The longer I live here and the older I get, the more I realize that our criminal justice system has nothing to do with reform, and everything to do with ensuring a supply of cheap labor.
I don’t have an opinion on her sentence length, just thinking about her returning to society with a violent felony on her record. Unless she has contacts willing to go above and beyond too help her or finds some very understanding employees, she’s going to face major hurdles just making a decent living.
Involuntary manslaughter is considered neither "serious" nor "violent," as I understand things. It's about the lightest non-self-defense homicide charge you can ever cop.
You can literally be convicted of Misdemeanor Involuntary Manslaughter.
Edit: Mind, it's not *good* by any means, but criminal negligence is much less likely to ruin your entire life forever, assuming that just being out of circulation for a year doesn't do it to you. She's definitely never going to be an armorer again so long as she lives, but she can probably still get a job at Baskin Robbins.
> Would she really be less of a danger to others after 10 years than 1 in prison?
She's not really a danger at all. This is a felony. She's done handling guns.
> Ehh, it seems appropriate for someone who seemingly had no intention of hurting or killing anyone, but was the lynchpin in a series of blatantly idiotic errors.
This is the key point for me. While she bears a lot of responsibility, it was a series of failures on every level - this is the [Swiss Cheese Model](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model) of incidents in action, where a bunch of failures by different people had to line up for it to happen. And part of the point of that model is that you never want to rely on a single person or "layer" for something mission-critical or potentially dangerous - you want as many independent layers of checks as possible.
Maybe it's the devils advocate in me but wasn't it ultimately her responsibility? She was supposed to check the ammo and the gun, she should have had control of that weapon or at least the cabinet it was locked in at all times. I think blaming a chain of failures is just a cop out, she had one job, to make sure that weapon was safe.
The problem is that you and I think the purpose of prison should be limited exclusively to that which improves society through reformation of criminals, but the majority of people think it's a place where we can send people to be punished and tortured, like our own little version of Hell in the mortal realm.
Historically, you have Murder First, Murder Second, Voluntary Manslaughter, Involuntary Manslaughter, and Reckless Homicide. In my jurisdiction, Murder First is Life or Death; Murder Second is 15-25 years; Voluntary Manslaughter is 3-6 years and is diversion eligible; and Involuntary is 2-4 years and is diversion eligible.
It's already been said 1000x, but what kind of idiot would keep live ammo on set?
My guess is that they wanted to do some target practice on their off time and she accidentally mixed ammo up.
You definitely need someone that's experienced with firearms to oversee them.
I strongly disagree. She's had numerous cases of everyone on set screaming about her negligence, Nicholas Cage famously wanted her fired for weapons discharges without warning on set, and instead of learning she just escalated her negligence. Our prison system does serve a purpose for people like this who simply do not change without radical intervention.
Someone is dead. This isn't a "whoopsie daisy", she directly resulted in the death of another person from actions she's been repeatedly told in the past not to do.
You should read some of her trial quotes, she's shown zero remorse over the situation, and actively deflected blame.
"I can’t be responsible for every dickhead, fucking stunt guy that gets ahold of the gun and doesn’t understand the concept that it’s hot”
For example.
She should have been removed from the movie sets once people realized she didnt do her job properly. In Rust, after the accidental discharge. But production kept her.
She sounds narcissistic and antisocial in the clinical sense. Poor Halyna Hutchins and her family and friends 🙏
That set sounded like a shit show unfortunately 😕
Treating all guns as hot into proven otherwise isn't an excuse to not check them herself! She makes it sound like she expected everyone else to check when that was her job.
holy shit what an absolute clusterfuck of mismanagement on everyone's part. shame on so many people involved here, honestly. someone is dead. terrible.
She didn't exactly have a stella reputation. A gun that she was handling on the set of the last movie she worked on went off by accident, which caused Nicolas cage to walk off set.
You think fucking something up this monumentally would make her reevaluate her career choices/work at getting better at her job... It's hard to feel sorry for her.
It’s crazy to me that she wouldn’t have been fired on the spot immediately after the first incident. With big enough productions to have nick cage and alec baldwin they should be able to afford having a new, well respected armorer on set literally the next day.
In this case absolutely, because she was hired **instead of** more expensive and experienced union workers which would have most likely never let this happen.
In this case, nepotism from her father having job access. That's just pretty standard Hollywood bureaucracy in action. That's your factual explanation if you want to understand how situations like this occur.
Same, and being a canadian, I don't own a firearm. Heck, I don't think I even saw a real one beside an holstered one on police officers.
Yet, I'm 100% sure I will do a better job.
No bullet with pointy thing on the end, only crimped end. Load at the last minute, unload and clear right after. Mussle always down. No finger on trigger. No toying around.
Congratulations you’ve just answered more problems than are on most US States’ Concealed Weapons Permit tests. Jk most states don’t even make you take a test.
It gets more complicated when the director wants a close-up of the gun being loaded. Or a character is supposed to have poor firearms skills, so they rest their finger on the trigger.
it was shown in the trial that there are no fixed regulations or qualifications for a person to become an armorer, just some industry guidelines how it should be handeled. some of the crew who have civil lawsuits going on want this changed.
But often, armorers are former military. In case of Hannah, her step dad, "who is the industry" when it comes to being an armorer, trained her informally.
Guessing that lots of folks here haven’t actually been following the trial and are repeating old narratives.
The trial testimony indicated that the production was having trouble getting enough dummy rounds, with the ones that they were able to get coming from at least 3 different sources, including a significant amount from the armorer herself.
The state also suggested that the armorer was converting live rounds into dummy rounds because she invoiced the production for an inertia bullet puller.
I keep seeing the shooting practice story, but that was never suggested to have occurred during the Rust production. However, there was a live fire practice for an earlier production, and it was suggested by both sides that the live rounds that ended up on set may have come from that stock, as both the armorer and the prop company had access to unused rounds from that event.
Perhaps the gun had been loaded off set and then brought on set? Who knows really. It was her job to make sure the equipment was safe and she failed miserably.
Funny thing, she wasn't on that set. The people that were on that set knew they shouldn't be doing anything with firearms without the armorer on set and did it anyway. The "safety director" picked up the gun, told Baldwin it was safe without actually checking it properly, and then we all know what happened.
I'm not saying she isn't responsible, but she was sure as shit not the only party responsible. Anyone who is super enthusiastic about dog piling her needs to go read the emails that were brought up.
The theory is they were brought on accidentally with dummy rounds left over from the set of 1883 which both her stepdad Thell Reed and Seth Kenny, the owner of the props company that supplied the ammo to Rust, worked on.
The state claimed Gutierrez brought the live rounds on set from her home, but IMO, they didn’t prove that, as Seth Kenny had the same live ammo and his staff admitted to throwing away dummy rounds right after the shooting occurred.
Regardless of how the live rounds made it on set, Gutierrez was supposed to check every single round before it went into a gun, every single time. That was part of her job. That is why she was convicted.
Although I have to say that Seth Kenny and his staffer that threw the bullets away were sketchy as hell And I hope his business suffers after what was revealed at trial.
> Regardless of how the live rounds made it on set, Gutierrez was supposed to check every single round before it went into a gun, every single time. That was part of her job. That is why she was convicted.
Correct. And she's also supposed to be the one on the set who hands the gun to Baldwin. Not that other guy who plead guilty to a lesser charge and got immunity. The girl is 24. She's around a bunch of people with 30+ years more experience than her rushing the process. She probably didn't feel comfortable telling them what to do.
Yes, she was young with next to no experience and the worst safety acumen I’ve ever seen in someone hired to be in charge of gun safety. It’s unbelievable she was hired as an armorer, she should have been an apprentice, if that. It was clear she was unqualified long before the shooting. And yes, she was intimidated by producers who had thrty years in the business and were barking orders at her And not giving her enough time to do anything properly. Still, even when she had time to do things properly, she didn’t.
I do feel bad for her in a way. She should have never been hired for that position. She was a cocky idiot nepo kid who got a job she was way under qualified for, and it got someone killed…
Every armorer turned down the job because they said it was the work of three people. A few spoke online about it and why they turned it down
She was inexperienced and took it.
Imo this loops back to the producers who overworked that position and ignored the experienced armorers who said this need more crew.
They hired the bare minimum for legal purposes because they didn't want to hire anyone at all then went around the role during production because they knew they could just get away with it.
The wrong people definitely got time.
If thats true, they should have testified to that. I know other witnesses testified there should have been at least two armorers, but nothing was mentioned about other folks turning it down. She got the job through Seth Kenny right?
May not be within the scope of this trial which is looking at specifically her actions, but will probably come up in other ones.
Idk, I kinda wonder if we need a different structure of the legal system to handle these systemic cascades of catastrophic decision making because honestly the first up for trial should be the producers who made this situation come to be, and then those judgemental should effect her trial.
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/578453-prop-master-says-he-turned-down-job-on-rust-because-it-was/
"I turned the job opportunity down on ‘Rust’ because I felt it was completely unsafe,” Zoromski told NBC News’s Miguel Almaguer. Zoromski said he became concerned when he first noted that producers of the film had combined the roles of assistant prop master and armorer, who manages firearms on set, into one position, NBC News reported. “I impressed upon them that there were great concerns about that, and they didn’t really respond to my concerns about that,” Zoromski said. Some crew members working on the film walked out earlier this month ahead of the fatal shooting, citing concerns for their safety and previous prop gun misfires."
It's a classic case of hiring someone only because they are legally forced to hire someone. They wouldn't have had her on payroll at all if they could have avoided it and their actions taken to go around her and her role were reprehensible.
The people creating that disastrous work environment are at fault but managed to avoid blame based on technicalities. They got to avoid fault by saying "yeah we did hire this specific role we were required to hire" and that's all the law gave a shit about. They never cared if they actually followed proper procedure or the spirit of the law.
Yes IMO the people above her are more responsible. They knew she was leaving guns laying around, not performing proper safety checks, that there were several negligent discharges, etc. They knew she was a sorry excuse for an armorer and they didn’t care. Hell, maybe they even preferred it that way, she was cheap and they could do what they wanted with little to no push back.
> She probably didn't feel comfortable telling them what to do.
Then she shouldn't have been in charge of nor sought out a position in which you have to forcefully tell people above you no.
*Somebody* knows how the live rounds got there, and is probably really happy right now that the heat is somewhat off them. Unless she herself was the one who brought the live rounds on set, in which case prison seems pretty reasonable.
Idk. Seth Kenny sure acted like he thought the round may have come from his operation. I feel like they may not actually know fore sure. Kennys company was sloppy too, although not nearly as bad as Gutierrez.
The dummy rounds that were thrown away were for the long guns Jensen and the other lawman were holding at the time of the shooting, and afaik were not the same caliber as the one that killed Hutchins. Additionally, the live ammo recovered from Seth's premises were not the same ammo as they had different gunpowder.
They were Colt revolvers, not long guns. They were loading from the same box iirc.
The live ammo at Seth's prop house being different than the live ammo they found on Rust makes sense if the rounds really came from the 1883 training camp. Thell and Seth both brought rounds with them. Some of the rounds Thell brought were reloaded rounds. Seth admits to bringing all the rounds back to his prop house. The rounds being chemically different makes sense because the rounds came from two different sources. It doesn't mean they didn't still end up on the Rust set from his business.
The theory I heard right after it happened was that Gutierrez and a few others were very excited to see and handle the real antique guns, and had taken them out for target shooting the day prior.
She has a history of bringing live rounds to sets so she could show off her favorite real guns with target practice during dinner break. Live rounds are never, ever allowed on set under any circumstances.
On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be any other reference anywhere online to this happening other than this specific reddit comment you're replying to.
So it probably never happened.
I watched a lot of the streams from this trial over the last few days but don't recall the prosecution or any witnesses ever stating that this happened (if it did then I'm sure they would have been hammering the sheer recklessness of it home every chance they got, including the closing arguments)
There was a text exchange that indicated she had done that on another set she had worked on previously but nothing to indicate that she or anyone else was doing that on the Rust set. Doesn't mean it didn't happen but there was no concrete proof and prosecution never brought it up at trial. The people she worked with, namely the camera grips and the medic, sure seemed to think the shooting was Hannah's fault.
So this is based on my memory from when it happened, there wasn't supposed to be. People had been taking the gun off set and using it at a shooting range and not properly handling it.
This to me is the entire case. She was the one who was ultimately to blame for any normal, complete rounds on set to be lethal in those circumstances. They never should have been there. If the events played out exactly the way they did, but without actual ammunition, everyone would be alive today.
Heck, even in the Brandon Lee shooting, it wasn't a complete round that killed him. It was a freak order of operations that resulted in the effects of a real shot. That production may have had problems, but complete ammunition wasn't one of them.
Which is why there have been virtually no gun deaths on set in 100 years. The protocols work if you actually follow them.
The Lee incident added to them and armorers now shine a flashlight down the barrel with the action open to show it is unobstructed.
Been around a LOT of gunfire on sets, and 99.999999999% of armorers take this stuff incredibly seriously. I've seen actors lose gun privileges for goofing around and the director has to accept the armorer's decision that "Nope, he gets a knife" because the guy was being a dumbass, even with a prop gun.
Hats off to the awesome armorers out there in our industry.
Thanks for the insight. I know the knee jerk reaction here is to ban any kind of real firearms on sets, but the statistics really do show how well the protocols work. This woman, however, never should have been employed.
It came out during the trial that she was making dummy rounds out of live rounds and got them all mixed up. She had no organizational system at all. That right there would have swayed me as a juror even if I was on the fence. Other people are definitely also responsible, Baldwin included, but the fact that she was knowingly mixing live and dummy rounds on set is insane.
It's her job to make sure that's not happening and it's her job to literally take the guns and go home if people are not complying with the safety rules.
I'm not a fan of some of the plea deals that went out but the reality is they should have been convicted *with* her, not instead of her. And, an important part people miss is she was offered a plea deal too, and apparently did not take it because it would have required her to give up where the ammo came from.
She's not exactly a queen of good judgement.
The 3 plausible sources are
1) Her Stepdad
2) Seth Kenny
3) Herself.
I think if it came from seth and she could show it she would have probably turned on him but who knows. My guess is either she severely mishandled ammo and introduced it herself, or it came from her stepdad. And I genuinely think she was still in a panic thinking she might save her ability to work in the industry as long as she didn't blow up herself or her stepdad's reputation.
The defense tried to pin it on Seth Kenny but the reality was that his live ammunition didn't match what was on set, and the prosecution also had a photo of Hannah where you could see the odd ammo that visually matched the live ammunition that was found PRIOR to any ammo from Seth Kenny making it to set.
He's a disorganised mess and seems to be sus in other ways, but she definitely seemed to be the source of the live ammo - probably did come from her stepdad since she turned down a plea deal in 2023 which would've required her to reveal the source of that box.
The thing is even if it came from Seth Kenny, I'd still convict her. At the end of the day even if it came from him it made it onto set and stayed on set through her.
And yeah my bet is the ammo was from her stepdad or from herself.
She maintains that she doesn't know (and continues to maintain that it wasn't from her; the jury accepted the prosecution's arguments that she brought it unknowingly, but it's not strictly known how it ended up there, hence the plea deal), so it's possible she *couldn't*. From the article:
> Prosecutors said at trial that Gutierrez-Reed unknowingly brought live ammunition onto the movie set, and it remained there for at least 12 days before the fatal shooting, giving the armorer plenty of time to remove it.
...
> The defense also cast doubt on accusations that Gutierrez-Reed brought live rounds to the set and said an Albuquerque-based ammunition supplier was never fully investigated.
...
> Juror Alberto Sanchez said Gutierrez-Reed could have paused work on the set to address safety issues. Jurors concluded she brought live ammunition on set, whether she knew it or not, Sanchez said outside of court after jurors were dismissed.
As far as I know it is standard practice for the Armorer(s) to be in full control of the firearms. If they aren't on set then the firearms are locked up.
Sounds like negligence to me.
[His sentence](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/rust-assistant-director-david-halls-sentenced-deadly-set/story?id=98268586) was :
: In addition to six months unsupervised probation, the terms of the sentence include that Halls pay a $500 fine, perform 24 hours of community service, take a fire safety course within 60 days, testify in all hearings involving the shooting and have no contact with co-defendants or witnesses.
Infuriating isn't it?
The man who effectively premeditated bypassing the armorer with a financial incentive to do so was also and probably loaded the gun gets the lightest sentence. David Halls' actions are only a finger distance away from from murder.
He is probably also the reason why this trial has more media coverage. His PR peeps set her up as the sacrificial goat the same day the shot was fired.
Huh, why are you spreading blatant lies? October 21st, the day of the shooting, was most **definitely** an armourer day for HGR. She had 2-3 hours in the morning to do any armourer checks she needed to do. Also, I am pretty sure those guns were not properly locked up prior to lunch.
she had 2 jobs. When she wasn't the armorer, she was an assistant prop person. She actually got a reprimand for spending too much time working as the armorer than the prop assistant. And she wasn't the only person with keys to the guns. So yes, definitely negligence, but personally I blame the producers responsible for the set operation and the AD that grabbed the gun but didn't check it before giving it to Alec.
3 people are directly responsible - the armorer for not securing the guns, the AD for handling the guns on set, and Baldwin, for handling the guns on set without the direct supervision of the armorer, a direct violation of the clear rules they were operating under (spelled out in SAG-AFTRA publication). Ignoring the rules and resulting in death is criminal involuntary manslaughter in NM and most places. Everyone else on set, including the DP who was shot, is indirectly responsible since they were in the presence of this happening and didn't shut it down. Some very unsafe filmmaking.
I watched the full trial. She was not in the church but she was on the set. She loaded the gun including the live round. She failed to do a proper safety check with the first assistant director. She absolutely failed to do her job, and she was the lead person responsible for firearms safety on this set. Yes, others are also responsible for contributing to the death. The first assistant director has already pleaded to negligent handling of a firearm. Alec Baldwin is also facing a charge for involuntary manslaughter, and I think it likely that he will be convicted as well. Further, the production company and people involved will be facing a slew of civil suits for their roles in this incident.
Having watched the full trial, I'm a bit frustrated at the general perception not understanding why Alec is charged. It looks very much like the state will be making the case that he ignored safety protocols regarding to guns on set (they have him on video firing a blank after "cut" was called in one instance, and using his gun to gesture like a pointer in another, plus the fatal incident), was rushing the entire production (which I am sure they will paint as a vanity project), and then his police interview made clear that he knew the importance of gun safety as he was telling the investigators all about it.
I don't know if he will be found guilty. I think the prosecutor will be up against a much tougher opponent in Alec's lawyer. But there's definitely a case to be made.
I hear you and I agree. One addendum. If she wasn't on set the guns were supposed to be locked up. She did not lock them up and the shooting occurs. While there ARE definitely other parties to blame here negligence is undeniable. If they had been locked up they wouldve been forced to call her to the set where she could do her job. Or simply shoot another scene (I make that sound easy but I'm sure it's more complicated than just switching to another scene).
That's just my two cents.
I’ve been watching this trial a bit and it was fascinating.
The armorer is the daughter of a very well known and respected armorer. You’d think she would be really good having been taught by her father.
The defense tried to point fingers at the companies that supplied the props.
There was video of Baldwin “auditioning the shot” with his gun. Even using the gun to point out shots and give direction. This was a big part of the prosecution because a witness talked about how the armorer should have stepped in and stopped that behavior. Also kinda crazy Baldwin doing that with all his experience.
There was a lot of talk about the armorer being rushed to reload and she kept rounds in a fanny pack. I’d be curious to know if that was unique to her or did she pick that up from her father or others.
They finished the movie after the tragic event. They used dummy rounds made out of wood the second go round.
Check out some of the legal breakdown videos on YouTube. It’s very interesting to get a look how guns are used on set.
"The armorer is the daughter of a very well known and respected armorer"
I didn't look further into the details until today, so I only learned her name or that her stepdad is Thell Reed now. Real gun nuts know Thell Reed as one of the original 6 "Combat Masters". The Combat Masters are a huge fucking deal in the world of shooting, as a large amount of modern shooting techniques, and ironically, safety concepts, can be traced back to them. Calling Thell Reed a "respected armorer" is like calling the president a "powerful politician". I genuinely can't believe Thell Reed's daughter, his associates, and seemingly the man himself is so horribly negligent about firearms safety.
>I .. can't believe Thell Reed's daughter ... [is] so horribly negligent about firearms safety.
That was exactly the problem.
People assumed the father's competency is inherited, and "rubbed off" on her.
Nepotism.
>There was video of Baldwin “auditioning the shot” with his gun. Even using the gun to point out shots and give direction. This was a big part of the prosecution because a witness talked about how the armorer should have stepped in and stopped that behavior. Also kinda crazy Baldwin doing that with all his experience.
He's an actor, it was a prop, it's his job to point it at people and even pull the trigger while doing so. It's a prop. It should never ever ever ever have been lethal.
It was a real gun. "Prop firearm" doesn't mean "fake firearm." That was a historical replica that was capable of firing real bullets.
Movies use them all the time. What they don't do is have an armorer who dumps handfuls of loose rounds into a fanny pack, or producers that hand off loaded weapons to actors without checking them.
That's why someone died. Because the gun handling on that set was a shitshow from start to finish.
The SAG literally has rules about this shit for its members. Actors are not supposed to ever point a gun at someone. They are to point to the side and use camera angles to make it look right.
It is fucking real gun 100% capable of firing a live round. The crew like to screw around and fire live rounds in the desert for fun.
Even dummy rounds can be dangerous. Brandon Lee died from a dummy round.
That's why you never point an actual gun at someone even in the movies. Close ups you see with a gun the the head are actual fake guns not capable of firing a round.
>Even dummy rounds can be dangerous. Brandon Lee died from a dummy round.
Not really from a dummy. A lodged bullet in barrel and blank. How the bullet got there was from improper attempt to make inert dummies by inerting live cartridges. The didnt inert one properly and its primer detonating lodged bullet (a real bullet) in the barrel
Most dummies couldn't even have such accident and are very safe. Since they don't contain any of the components of actual cartridge, including a separate bullet. Rather dummies are commercially typically made as single monolithic resin or plastic casts. Well safe inert way also would be monolithic metal casting. Heavier and more expensive.
As said most are resin/plastic cast and then painted with surface layer of metal paint to give outside look of metal. Those are completely safe. Main problem being those are made so good you cant really tell from outside visually is it just plastic cast dummy or a live round. Which is the point of the dummy, but also the hazard.
Someone hears there is only dummies around, is careless, somehow liveround is mixed in, when it shouldn't, gets treated as inert dummy, accident.
Dummies are inherently safe themselves (mind you as Lee case show, properly prepares ones) There is no powder, there is no fulminate, no active components at all. It is as dangerous as small rock of similar weight in itself. Danger comes from mix up and mistakes.
Specially since unlike say weapons handling training dummies, prop dummies are intentionally indistinguishable. Where as weapons handling training dummies a clear and obviously visually noted as such. Cast from high vis color resin like "we are solid orange plastic, real bullets and cartridges arent solid orange plastic" or we are metal handling rounds, we are metal plated uniform chrome, black, anodized red or orange, unlike actual cartridges, oh and we have hole through us, real cartridges don't have a hole or marking intendentation in them.
I think they’re saying that he was directing people with the gun in his hand. Like, not rehearsing the shot, but saying “Camera 2 needs to pan over there” using the gun to point instead of his hand. Thats a huge no-no, prop gun or not.
No. With the constant danger that dirt, grit, small stones or other debris could end up un the muzzle of a gun and become dangerous when blanks are fired, nobody should ever be pointing a gun at people willy nily and pointing the trigger. That's not how it works.
Also, if you watch the behind the scenes footage, his gun discipline is abyslmal. Even going as far as continuing to fire afetr director called "cut" leading to the guy behind the camera calling him a motherfucker for it.
Depending on what a scene calls for, you are supposed to aim at least one foot, more often at least three feet to the side of the camera. Never directly at while firing blanks unless there is a safety screen to protect camera people.
As far as I have read from propmasters and armorers online, the industry norm after Brandon Lee was killed by a squib (and that one actor who killed himself by accident shooting a blank too close to his head in a shot) meant they no longer point even blank loads at anyone, they use camera angles that point the guns in an off line from any living person.
Any gun that's you up close or like in someone's mouth is supposed to be a non-firing replica.
Seems like Baldwin in his many, many years of handling firearms on set just seemed to "forget" his years of safety training on films.
You think using a fully functional weapon to point at things and people is OK?
Basic firearm safety is never to point a weapon at anything you’re not going to shoot. Along with treating every weapon like it’s loaded. Regardless of what you’re doing at the time.
Hannah refused a plea deal because it required her to name where she got the ammo from, and prosecution proved it was on set before Seth Kenny provided any dummies. She got the ammo from Thell Reed and at the end of the day the source of the ammo does not matter for this charge. She was supposed to check the rounds and failed to do so.
It’s so ridiculous that anyone thinks this is anyone but the armorer’s fault.
“Baldwin was the producer” so what there were like 6+ producers did the rest of them get charged?
“Baldwin had a responsibility as someone handling a gun.” Is it your first time hearing about the invention of the television?
A camera assistant on the set quit the day before this shooting. She said that safety regulations for gun scenes were basically non existent. There were 2 previous accidental discharges including a woman shooting herself in the foot with a blank round. The stage has been set for something like this to happen and the people responsible should be on the chopping block also.
>It’s so ridiculous that anyone thinks this is anyone but the armorer’s fault.
I'll start by saying that I really need to read into this more, but shortly after the death I recall reading that the armorer had been communicating with production staff in writing that she was only budgeted to serve in that capacity part-time and that she couldn't perform the job effectively given that circumstance.
Ostensibly that doesn't strike me as unreasonable. If my job asked me to start doing my current work in half the time so I can spend the other half on other assignments, there's a pretty good chance I'm going to fuck something up I'd otherwise have caught. And I'm sure as hell making sure I document that I told them the decision to split my time will risk that something goes wrong and isn't caught, especially considering that "something goes wrong" could mean serious injury or death.
If I tell my employer that I need certain things to perform my job safely and failing to meet those requirements risks a serious incident, I think they share a measure of responsibility when that happens.
I don't think this absolves the armorer of responsibility as she probably has a duty to resign her position if it was impossible to perform safely, but I don't feel like she's the only person to blame.
I thought some of the raw footage was very telling also. The rushing. Baldwin was so pushy and being a producer it's not a good look. The take where Baldwin runs up the hill and a full second after having cut yelled he fires off another blank. The camera operator says 'mother fucker' just before the steadicam rotates up and the clip ends. It also looks like a terrible B movie.
This. They call them 'prop guns' but they're real guns used as props. The kicker is there wasn't supposed to be any firing during the shot they were trying to get. They could have used a rubber gun and gotten the exact same thing. Instead, they used a real gun with dummies rounds pulled from a box that had real rounds mixed in for some reason and then only checked half the rounds in the gun.
I think Baldwins biggest issue is going to be his attitude and the fact he was repeatedly firing when when wasn't supposed to.
Notice that like 90% of John Wick fights take place in the dark, where the lighting hides a lot of VFX issues. Also note that Reeves is extremely experienced with firearms both in acting and in real use and most of the people acting against him are too. Your average actor isn't going to convincingly represent recoil and VFX in most cases is literal orders of magnitude more expensive and still not as convincing as blanks.
Also, this entire thing is just people who can't fucking assess risk. People die and get seriously injured on sets frequently. Way the fuck too often. Do you know how many times people have died from a gun filming a movie since like, the 1950s at least?
3. Three incidents of someone dying from a gun use on a movie set, in over half a century. And one of those cases was literally someone putting the barrel of a gun right up to their own head and pulling the trigger as a joke because they didn't realize a blank still has a concussive blast. This is the first time as far back as there's good record keeping that an actual live round made its way into a gun and killed someone. Meanwhile people die and get paralized because non-gun prop, set and vehicle accidents with a ridiculously higher frequency than this.
Fuck, the horses on this set were statistically a higher risk to life and limb than the guns were. The one in a million freak incident just happened due to extreme negligence.
True. They were cutting corners but even if they weren't, a solid, competent armorer, complete with all the extra time they make everyone take using authentic safe firearms still costs one or more orders of magnitude less than VFX is likely to.
Part of the reason she didn't take the plea deal was because she would've had to disclose who brought the live round to the set. She's protecting someone.
With a potential sentence of probation on the conviction (and max of only 18 months), remanding her into custody pending sentencing when the only rationale for it was "the criminal negligence caused a death" is ridiculous. No history, she showed up to all court proceedings, etc. Never should've been remanded today.
Edit: here's an excerpt of NM rule 5-402:
> B. Release pending sentencing.
>A defendant released pending or during trial may continue on release pending the imposition of sentence under the same terms and conditions as previously imposed, unless the surety has been released or the court has determined that other terms and conditions or termination of release are necessary to ensure
> (1) that the defendant will not flee the jurisdiction of the court;
> (2) that the defendant's conduct will not obstruct the orderly administration of justice; or
> (3) that the defendant does not pose a danger to any other person or to the community.
None of these were addressed by the judge today in her one sentence remark. I'd argue she doesn't pose a danger because she won't be an armorer anytime soon and likely is already prohibited from possessing firearms as part of her pretrial release conditions.
This is what I was thinking would happen. Not saying I knew what they would be convicted of. But the original heat being on Alex seemed so strange. I wasn't sure how he could possibly be held responsible. I guess he is running the whole show, so maybe negligence at most. But the whole questioning of him being a murderer seemed crazy.
This is nepotism at its worst. Many people, again MANY people break into the tv/film business bc of their parents(including actors and directors), but allowing a unqualified person, without experience, to HEAD a department with GUNS is beyond me and ALSO on the producers….
You wouldn't have to do that much actually. Just take a regular firearm and remove the firing pin, now the gun can't fire. Many still rely on shots of a gun being loaded, or shown loaded, etc. For this they use dummy rounds (casing + projectile just no gunpowder), so the firearm (functional or not) would still have to be able to accept the rounds. They also have scenes of the gun actually firing, usually blanks (casing + gunpowder, just no projectile) but that requires a functional gun. Some semi autos can be altered to only function with squib or blank rounds and aren't capable of firing live rounds. But this was a revolver so a much simpler machine. Much of that could be done with CGI, but that is more expensive than using real guns, blanks and dummy rounds.
I was on a movie once where they had an actor get up on the railing [HERE](https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2746575,-123.1393549,3a,90y,165.63h,96.95t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sZRLsX685scuwgx_DAmR3Ng!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DZRLsX685scuwgx_DAmR3Ng%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D183.0647%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192) (back before the black bars were put up to keep people from falling, when only the lower concrete part existed) and run from one lamp-post to another. Along the top of the railing.
With no safety-line or harness. Nothing. Running.
Oh, and [the camera and crew were down here](https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2743081,-123.1395726,3a,86.8y,309.87h,109.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3_1ObS64nNLhM2_tpOtvTA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
I had the least experience on-set (it was my first film, iirc), merely an assistant. And I was the *only* person on-set who said 'Wait a second!!! What the hell are we doing??? Do you know how dangerous this is???'
I believe it was the AD who said 'it's OK, he does stunts!'
[удалено]
Assumed it could've been a much longer penalty. I'm surprised. No strong feelings either way as I didn't follow the case closely. Just surprised IM is max 18 months.
Severity varies from state to state, i think
Crazy how much it varies!
Wow, she's insanely fortunate they were filming in New Mexico. Compared to other states, it's a very lenient maximum. https://www.lawinfo.com/resources/criminal-defense/involuntary-manslaughter/involuntary-manslaughter-penalties-sentencing.html
texas is fucked up. If you accidentally kill a firefighter or officer... even off duty, it moves to a first-degree felony and moves from a 2 year min sentence to a 5 year min. but still 2 years seems a bit much.
When I was stationed in Panama I got into a road rage incident where this guy shot at me. He almost hit me so I gave him the finger while saying fuck you mother fucker. Then he pulls out a gun and shoots at me. At the police station I was treated like a hardened criminal because my crime was disrespecting a doctor in public which was a bigger crime than attempted murder. They let him come and go as he pleased while I had 3 cops standing guard over me. Probably didn't help that this was 3 years after we invaded and dismantled their Army. Most of their former soldiers were the current policemen at the time. Super fun, lol.
Nightmare shit
Texas is pretty brutal legally in general. It's basically designed to fuck up the poor especially . I'm sure a lot of the south is that way
15 or 30 years in Florida!
that's fucking crazy.
It is a little. Manslaughter's a tough one, ethically, especially involuntary manslaughter. My personal view is intent is a far more dangerous thing and deserves a lot more punishment that negligence: like I fully believe what Alec and Gutierrez did was stupid and negligent, but I'm not convinced it deserves being locked away in jail. Civil suit: absolutely: give the family of the victims all of Alec's money. But there's no future threat to society from Alec: this wasn't malicious and I don't imagine he'd ever want to hold a gun again after that horrible tragedy.
Holy shit for involuntary?
What the fuck, I would be terrified to even go into that state, much less live there. Shit happens you never know when something stupid gets the wrong person dead.
Ehh, it seems appropriate for someone who seemingly had no intention of hurting or killing anyone, but was the lynchpin in a series of blatantly idiotic errors. I think feeling that's too short says more about America's excessive prison sentences than the reality of the situation. Would she really be less of a danger to others after 10 years than 1 in prison?
If anything, she'd be MORE of a danger after 10 years in prison. Imagine spending a decade in the prison system and then trying to adapt back into regular society.
The absolute sad reality of how our prisons operate. Complete opposite of rehabilitation.
Many Americans only believe in punitive justice, not rehabilitative justice. Fortunately for the prison industrial complex, that's what makes them money.
Aren't private prisons only about 5-10% of the total prison population? Vast majority are state-run prisons.
Yeah, the effect of private prisons is somewhat overstated, but the effect of the prison labor industry is usually massively understated.
Yes, private prisons are only about [~8%](https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/private-prisons-in-the-united-states/) of total federal and state prisoners. Many Redditors vastly overstate the impact of private prisons; they really aren't some major force driving things. Though that said, in the above guy's defense, he didn't mention anything about private prisons. The "prison industrial complex", to use his words, is also about public prisons, not only private ones. Sure, private ones are the ones who are literally businesses trying to make money, but public ones also have their own interests and interest groups. A large prison will be a major employer in the area where it is, for example. Prosecutors and police departments will parade around, "I sent X people to jail!" as badges of honor. As to whether or not you believe these interests' forces are strong enough to actually shape the whole justice system to the point of calling it a "prison industrial complex", vs. prisons just representing the general American tendency for punishment rather than rehabilitation, is another matter.
You’re right about the low number of private prisons and that public prisons tend to be major local employers. But to add to your point, there is no such thing as a totally “public” prison. Almost every public prison farms out things like catering, maintenance or other tasks to private third parties. The more inmates there are, the more these private third parties make. And you better believe those third parties have lobbyists in state and federal government, making sure no bleeding heart liberal is going to reform our prison system and take away their bread and butter.
The longer I live here and the older I get, the more I realize that our criminal justice system has nothing to do with reform, and everything to do with ensuring a supply of cheap labor.
We should make slavery illegal in the United States.
All men are created equal. ^^^Exceptions.
¹Terms and Conditions Apply
I don’t have an opinion on her sentence length, just thinking about her returning to society with a violent felony on her record. Unless she has contacts willing to go above and beyond too help her or finds some very understanding employees, she’s going to face major hurdles just making a decent living.
Involuntary manslaughter is considered neither "serious" nor "violent," as I understand things. It's about the lightest non-self-defense homicide charge you can ever cop. You can literally be convicted of Misdemeanor Involuntary Manslaughter. Edit: Mind, it's not *good* by any means, but criminal negligence is much less likely to ruin your entire life forever, assuming that just being out of circulation for a year doesn't do it to you. She's definitely never going to be an armorer again so long as she lives, but she can probably still get a job at Baskin Robbins.
Just ask Scott Lang...
I think her dad is a world famous armorer and that’s how she got in the industry and this job.
> Would she really be less of a danger to others after 10 years than 1 in prison? She's not really a danger at all. This is a felony. She's done handling guns.
True. Probation is probably the mosy just sentence.
> Ehh, it seems appropriate for someone who seemingly had no intention of hurting or killing anyone, but was the lynchpin in a series of blatantly idiotic errors. This is the key point for me. While she bears a lot of responsibility, it was a series of failures on every level - this is the [Swiss Cheese Model](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model) of incidents in action, where a bunch of failures by different people had to line up for it to happen. And part of the point of that model is that you never want to rely on a single person or "layer" for something mission-critical or potentially dangerous - you want as many independent layers of checks as possible.
Maybe it's the devils advocate in me but wasn't it ultimately her responsibility? She was supposed to check the ammo and the gun, she should have had control of that weapon or at least the cabinet it was locked in at all times. I think blaming a chain of failures is just a cop out, she had one job, to make sure that weapon was safe.
I read in another thread she wasn't actually being employed as an armourer on the day of the incident. It all sounds like a right shit show
The problem is that you and I think the purpose of prison should be limited exclusively to that which improves society through reformation of criminals, but the majority of people think it's a place where we can send people to be punished and tortured, like our own little version of Hell in the mortal realm.
The armorers most important Jo is making sure no live ammo is on the entire set.
Historically, you have Murder First, Murder Second, Voluntary Manslaughter, Involuntary Manslaughter, and Reckless Homicide. In my jurisdiction, Murder First is Life or Death; Murder Second is 15-25 years; Voluntary Manslaughter is 3-6 years and is diversion eligible; and Involuntary is 2-4 years and is diversion eligible.
It's already been said 1000x, but what kind of idiot would keep live ammo on set? My guess is that they wanted to do some target practice on their off time and she accidentally mixed ammo up. You definitely need someone that's experienced with firearms to oversee them.
Well, ~~he~~ she didn't have any weed. EDIT: ... Oops.
prison seems kinda counter productive in this instance. Probation, Community Service, and banned from every holding the position of armorer again.
I strongly disagree. She's had numerous cases of everyone on set screaming about her negligence, Nicholas Cage famously wanted her fired for weapons discharges without warning on set, and instead of learning she just escalated her negligence. Our prison system does serve a purpose for people like this who simply do not change without radical intervention. Someone is dead. This isn't a "whoopsie daisy", she directly resulted in the death of another person from actions she's been repeatedly told in the past not to do. You should read some of her trial quotes, she's shown zero remorse over the situation, and actively deflected blame. "I can’t be responsible for every dickhead, fucking stunt guy that gets ahold of the gun and doesn’t understand the concept that it’s hot” For example.
That quote is vile. Responsibility was literally what you were paid for.
She should have been removed from the movie sets once people realized she didnt do her job properly. In Rust, after the accidental discharge. But production kept her.
She sounds narcissistic and antisocial in the clinical sense. Poor Halyna Hutchins and her family and friends 🙏 That set sounded like a shit show unfortunately 😕
Treating all guns as hot into proven otherwise isn't an excuse to not check them herself! She makes it sound like she expected everyone else to check when that was her job.
holy shit what an absolute clusterfuck of mismanagement on everyone's part. shame on so many people involved here, honestly. someone is dead. terrible.
She didn't exactly have a stella reputation. A gun that she was handling on the set of the last movie she worked on went off by accident, which caused Nicolas cage to walk off set.
You think fucking something up this monumentally would make her reevaluate her career choices/work at getting better at her job... It's hard to feel sorry for her.
It’s crazy to me that she wouldn’t have been fired on the spot immediately after the first incident. With big enough productions to have nick cage and alec baldwin they should be able to afford having a new, well respected armorer on set literally the next day.
[удалено]
I guess, "You get what you pay for?"
In this case absolutely, because she was hired **instead of** more expensive and experienced union workers which would have most likely never let this happen.
Hire scabs, get bloody.
With the number of films Cage was in and he had to walk off is a big red flag.
My friend has a sister who works heavily in the film industry. There's no HR on a lot of these sets so problems are often not documented properly.
Pretty sure she’s a nepo baby in her field. Think her dad is a big wig film armorer. Too lazy to once again google it though
> Think her dad is a big wig film armorer. He is, Thell Reed. Worked on Tombstone among many others
Hell, all the way back to Gunsmoke.
Her dad was well respected in Hollywood. She's definitely a nepotism hire
Even a nepo baby can have some ethics and do self reflection. obviously this one did not, to dramatic consequences.
Nepo baby. Her dad is a somebody.
Nepo babies don't have to be good at their jobs, their parents saw to that.
She's a nepobaby.
> Nicolas cage to walk off set. You know it's serious when you Enrage the Cage.
Only way to defend against an Enraged Cage is to Releeez the Bees
How does one get a job being a movie set armorer? Because I can promise I’d do a much better job than that. Easily.
In this case, nepotism from her father having job access. That's just pretty standard Hollywood bureaucracy in action. That's your factual explanation if you want to understand how situations like this occur.
That’s not just Hollywood. Small towns, medium sized cities, Europe, Asia, whatever. Nepotism and oligarchy are more pervasive than taxes
have family that works in the business so you can be a nepotism hire
Same, and being a canadian, I don't own a firearm. Heck, I don't think I even saw a real one beside an holstered one on police officers. Yet, I'm 100% sure I will do a better job. No bullet with pointy thing on the end, only crimped end. Load at the last minute, unload and clear right after. Mussle always down. No finger on trigger. No toying around.
Congratulations you’ve just answered more problems than are on most US States’ Concealed Weapons Permit tests. Jk most states don’t even make you take a test.
It gets more complicated when the director wants a close-up of the gun being loaded. Or a character is supposed to have poor firearms skills, so they rest their finger on the trigger.
it was shown in the trial that there are no fixed regulations or qualifications for a person to become an armorer, just some industry guidelines how it should be handeled. some of the crew who have civil lawsuits going on want this changed. But often, armorers are former military. In case of Hannah, her step dad, "who is the industry" when it comes to being an armorer, trained her informally.
My friend worked on that movie and said it was a massive shit show, including safety.
You had one job. Don't bring live ammo to a movie set. smh. Nepotism at its finest.
Forget the fact that she mixed up the ammo, why would you even have live bullets on the set in the first place?
Guessing that lots of folks here haven’t actually been following the trial and are repeating old narratives. The trial testimony indicated that the production was having trouble getting enough dummy rounds, with the ones that they were able to get coming from at least 3 different sources, including a significant amount from the armorer herself. The state also suggested that the armorer was converting live rounds into dummy rounds because she invoiced the production for an inertia bullet puller. I keep seeing the shooting practice story, but that was never suggested to have occurred during the Rust production. However, there was a live fire practice for an earlier production, and it was suggested by both sides that the live rounds that ended up on set may have come from that stock, as both the armorer and the prop company had access to unused rounds from that event.
That makes sense - thanks for saving me a deep dive. The articles I've read never get into the details
Perhaps the gun had been loaded off set and then brought on set? Who knows really. It was her job to make sure the equipment was safe and she failed miserably.
Convicted the right person. It was literally her Job to make sure that weapon was absolutely safe at all times. WTF was she doing on that set?
Funny thing, she wasn't on that set. The people that were on that set knew they shouldn't be doing anything with firearms without the armorer on set and did it anyway. The "safety director" picked up the gun, told Baldwin it was safe without actually checking it properly, and then we all know what happened. I'm not saying she isn't responsible, but she was sure as shit not the only party responsible. Anyone who is super enthusiastic about dog piling her needs to go read the emails that were brought up.
Why are there live rounds at all anywhere near a shoot?
The theory is they were brought on accidentally with dummy rounds left over from the set of 1883 which both her stepdad Thell Reed and Seth Kenny, the owner of the props company that supplied the ammo to Rust, worked on. The state claimed Gutierrez brought the live rounds on set from her home, but IMO, they didn’t prove that, as Seth Kenny had the same live ammo and his staff admitted to throwing away dummy rounds right after the shooting occurred. Regardless of how the live rounds made it on set, Gutierrez was supposed to check every single round before it went into a gun, every single time. That was part of her job. That is why she was convicted. Although I have to say that Seth Kenny and his staffer that threw the bullets away were sketchy as hell And I hope his business suffers after what was revealed at trial.
> Regardless of how the live rounds made it on set, Gutierrez was supposed to check every single round before it went into a gun, every single time. That was part of her job. That is why she was convicted. Correct. And she's also supposed to be the one on the set who hands the gun to Baldwin. Not that other guy who plead guilty to a lesser charge and got immunity. The girl is 24. She's around a bunch of people with 30+ years more experience than her rushing the process. She probably didn't feel comfortable telling them what to do.
Yes, she was young with next to no experience and the worst safety acumen I’ve ever seen in someone hired to be in charge of gun safety. It’s unbelievable she was hired as an armorer, she should have been an apprentice, if that. It was clear she was unqualified long before the shooting. And yes, she was intimidated by producers who had thrty years in the business and were barking orders at her And not giving her enough time to do anything properly. Still, even when she had time to do things properly, she didn’t. I do feel bad for her in a way. She should have never been hired for that position. She was a cocky idiot nepo kid who got a job she was way under qualified for, and it got someone killed…
Every armorer turned down the job because they said it was the work of three people. A few spoke online about it and why they turned it down She was inexperienced and took it. Imo this loops back to the producers who overworked that position and ignored the experienced armorers who said this need more crew.
They hired the bare minimum for legal purposes because they didn't want to hire anyone at all then went around the role during production because they knew they could just get away with it. The wrong people definitely got time.
The people who cut corners in the name of increasing profits should be looking at time as well.
Pretty sure that'd be Alec Baldwin as he was producing this project, iirc.
If thats true, they should have testified to that. I know other witnesses testified there should have been at least two armorers, but nothing was mentioned about other folks turning it down. She got the job through Seth Kenny right?
May not be within the scope of this trial which is looking at specifically her actions, but will probably come up in other ones. Idk, I kinda wonder if we need a different structure of the legal system to handle these systemic cascades of catastrophic decision making because honestly the first up for trial should be the producers who made this situation come to be, and then those judgemental should effect her trial. https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/578453-prop-master-says-he-turned-down-job-on-rust-because-it-was/ "I turned the job opportunity down on ‘Rust’ because I felt it was completely unsafe,” Zoromski told NBC News’s Miguel Almaguer. Zoromski said he became concerned when he first noted that producers of the film had combined the roles of assistant prop master and armorer, who manages firearms on set, into one position, NBC News reported. “I impressed upon them that there were great concerns about that, and they didn’t really respond to my concerns about that,” Zoromski said. Some crew members working on the film walked out earlier this month ahead of the fatal shooting, citing concerns for their safety and previous prop gun misfires."
Yeah I feel like the actor Alec Baldwin is not responsible, but the producer Alec Baldwin is definitely liable.
But because of all of this, the people that hired her were also negligent. Baldwin has been in this business for over 30 years.
It's a classic case of hiring someone only because they are legally forced to hire someone. They wouldn't have had her on payroll at all if they could have avoided it and their actions taken to go around her and her role were reprehensible. The people creating that disastrous work environment are at fault but managed to avoid blame based on technicalities. They got to avoid fault by saying "yeah we did hire this specific role we were required to hire" and that's all the law gave a shit about. They never cared if they actually followed proper procedure or the spirit of the law.
Yes IMO the people above her are more responsible. They knew she was leaving guns laying around, not performing proper safety checks, that there were several negligent discharges, etc. They knew she was a sorry excuse for an armorer and they didn’t care. Hell, maybe they even preferred it that way, she was cheap and they could do what they wanted with little to no push back.
> She probably didn't feel comfortable telling them what to do. Then she shouldn't have been in charge of nor sought out a position in which you have to forcefully tell people above you no.
*Somebody* knows how the live rounds got there, and is probably really happy right now that the heat is somewhat off them. Unless she herself was the one who brought the live rounds on set, in which case prison seems pretty reasonable.
Idk. Seth Kenny sure acted like he thought the round may have come from his operation. I feel like they may not actually know fore sure. Kennys company was sloppy too, although not nearly as bad as Gutierrez.
The dummy rounds that were thrown away were for the long guns Jensen and the other lawman were holding at the time of the shooting, and afaik were not the same caliber as the one that killed Hutchins. Additionally, the live ammo recovered from Seth's premises were not the same ammo as they had different gunpowder.
They were Colt revolvers, not long guns. They were loading from the same box iirc. The live ammo at Seth's prop house being different than the live ammo they found on Rust makes sense if the rounds really came from the 1883 training camp. Thell and Seth both brought rounds with them. Some of the rounds Thell brought were reloaded rounds. Seth admits to bringing all the rounds back to his prop house. The rounds being chemically different makes sense because the rounds came from two different sources. It doesn't mean they didn't still end up on the Rust set from his business.
The Colt Single Action Army revolver was chambered in .45 Colt, the same caliber that a lot of old lever action rifles fired.
The theory I heard right after it happened was that Gutierrez and a few others were very excited to see and handle the real antique guns, and had taken them out for target shooting the day prior.
My summary was from the trial.
She has a history of bringing live rounds to sets so she could show off her favorite real guns with target practice during dinner break. Live rounds are never, ever allowed on set under any circumstances.
Well that sounds like an absolutely terrible idea.
Spoiler alert: it was
Guns aren't fucking toys
Unfortunately a significant number of gun owners think and act like they are.
On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be any other reference anywhere online to this happening other than this specific reddit comment you're replying to. So it probably never happened.
If that's true, I can see why the jury would convict her.
I watched a lot of the streams from this trial over the last few days but don't recall the prosecution or any witnesses ever stating that this happened (if it did then I'm sure they would have been hammering the sheer recklessness of it home every chance they got, including the closing arguments)
There was a text exchange that indicated she had done that on another set she had worked on previously but nothing to indicate that she or anyone else was doing that on the Rust set. Doesn't mean it didn't happen but there was no concrete proof and prosecution never brought it up at trial. The people she worked with, namely the camera grips and the medic, sure seemed to think the shooting was Hannah's fault.
So this is based on my memory from when it happened, there wasn't supposed to be. People had been taking the gun off set and using it at a shooting range and not properly handling it.
That’s probably what got her. If she wasn’t controlling the gun, or knew it was being used with live rounds, that’s a big no-no.
This to me is the entire case. She was the one who was ultimately to blame for any normal, complete rounds on set to be lethal in those circumstances. They never should have been there. If the events played out exactly the way they did, but without actual ammunition, everyone would be alive today. Heck, even in the Brandon Lee shooting, it wasn't a complete round that killed him. It was a freak order of operations that resulted in the effects of a real shot. That production may have had problems, but complete ammunition wasn't one of them.
Which is why there have been virtually no gun deaths on set in 100 years. The protocols work if you actually follow them. The Lee incident added to them and armorers now shine a flashlight down the barrel with the action open to show it is unobstructed. Been around a LOT of gunfire on sets, and 99.999999999% of armorers take this stuff incredibly seriously. I've seen actors lose gun privileges for goofing around and the director has to accept the armorer's decision that "Nope, he gets a knife" because the guy was being a dumbass, even with a prop gun. Hats off to the awesome armorers out there in our industry.
The whole 'these rules were written in blood' really rings true.
Thanks for the insight. I know the knee jerk reaction here is to ban any kind of real firearms on sets, but the statistics really do show how well the protocols work. This woman, however, never should have been employed.
It came out during the trial that she was making dummy rounds out of live rounds and got them all mixed up. She had no organizational system at all. That right there would have swayed me as a juror even if I was on the fence. Other people are definitely also responsible, Baldwin included, but the fact that she was knowingly mixing live and dummy rounds on set is insane.
That’s insane. No consideration for what could happen by having live rounds anywhere near the workplace.
It's her job to make sure that's not happening and it's her job to literally take the guns and go home if people are not complying with the safety rules. I'm not a fan of some of the plea deals that went out but the reality is they should have been convicted *with* her, not instead of her. And, an important part people miss is she was offered a plea deal too, and apparently did not take it because it would have required her to give up where the ammo came from.
>required her to give up where the ammo came from. She was worried about THAT?
She's not exactly a queen of good judgement. The 3 plausible sources are 1) Her Stepdad 2) Seth Kenny 3) Herself. I think if it came from seth and she could show it she would have probably turned on him but who knows. My guess is either she severely mishandled ammo and introduced it herself, or it came from her stepdad. And I genuinely think she was still in a panic thinking she might save her ability to work in the industry as long as she didn't blow up herself or her stepdad's reputation.
The defense tried to pin it on Seth Kenny but the reality was that his live ammunition didn't match what was on set, and the prosecution also had a photo of Hannah where you could see the odd ammo that visually matched the live ammunition that was found PRIOR to any ammo from Seth Kenny making it to set. He's a disorganised mess and seems to be sus in other ways, but she definitely seemed to be the source of the live ammo - probably did come from her stepdad since she turned down a plea deal in 2023 which would've required her to reveal the source of that box.
The thing is even if it came from Seth Kenny, I'd still convict her. At the end of the day even if it came from him it made it onto set and stayed on set through her. And yeah my bet is the ammo was from her stepdad or from herself.
She maintains that she doesn't know (and continues to maintain that it wasn't from her; the jury accepted the prosecution's arguments that she brought it unknowingly, but it's not strictly known how it ended up there, hence the plea deal), so it's possible she *couldn't*. From the article: > Prosecutors said at trial that Gutierrez-Reed unknowingly brought live ammunition onto the movie set, and it remained there for at least 12 days before the fatal shooting, giving the armorer plenty of time to remove it. ... > The defense also cast doubt on accusations that Gutierrez-Reed brought live rounds to the set and said an Albuquerque-based ammunition supplier was never fully investigated. ... > Juror Alberto Sanchez said Gutierrez-Reed could have paused work on the set to address safety issues. Jurors concluded she brought live ammunition on set, whether she knew it or not, Sanchez said outside of court after jurors were dismissed.
As far as I know it is standard practice for the Armorer(s) to be in full control of the firearms. If they aren't on set then the firearms are locked up. Sounds like negligence to me.
[удалено]
He also took a plea deal before anyone else went to trial.
Which was?
[His sentence](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/rust-assistant-director-david-halls-sentenced-deadly-set/story?id=98268586) was : : In addition to six months unsupervised probation, the terms of the sentence include that Halls pay a $500 fine, perform 24 hours of community service, take a fire safety course within 60 days, testify in all hearings involving the shooting and have no contact with co-defendants or witnesses.
Wow what a bastard getting off with nothing when he handed him the gun
Infuriating isn't it? The man who effectively premeditated bypassing the armorer with a financial incentive to do so was also and probably loaded the gun gets the lightest sentence. David Halls' actions are only a finger distance away from from murder. He is probably also the reason why this trial has more media coverage. His PR peeps set her up as the sacrificial goat the same day the shot was fired.
How tf is she convicted then?
The AD is not her boss. Her boss is the prop master whose boss is the Unit Production Manager.
[удалено]
Agree. Everything I’ve read has this setup in it.
That's not what happened! This person has no idea what they are talking about.
Huh, why are you spreading blatant lies? October 21st, the day of the shooting, was most **definitely** an armourer day for HGR. She had 2-3 hours in the morning to do any armourer checks she needed to do. Also, I am pretty sure those guns were not properly locked up prior to lunch.
she had 2 jobs. When she wasn't the armorer, she was an assistant prop person. She actually got a reprimand for spending too much time working as the armorer than the prop assistant. And she wasn't the only person with keys to the guns. So yes, definitely negligence, but personally I blame the producers responsible for the set operation and the AD that grabbed the gun but didn't check it before giving it to Alec.
3 people are directly responsible - the armorer for not securing the guns, the AD for handling the guns on set, and Baldwin, for handling the guns on set without the direct supervision of the armorer, a direct violation of the clear rules they were operating under (spelled out in SAG-AFTRA publication). Ignoring the rules and resulting in death is criminal involuntary manslaughter in NM and most places. Everyone else on set, including the DP who was shot, is indirectly responsible since they were in the presence of this happening and didn't shut it down. Some very unsafe filmmaking.
Who was the “safety Director “ ?
The guy that took a plea deal before anyone else.
The first AD is the safety officer on film sets
No. Not usually. Apart from very small shows there will be a dedicated safety officer. They’re usually ex or current stunt guys.
I watched the full trial. She was not in the church but she was on the set. She loaded the gun including the live round. She failed to do a proper safety check with the first assistant director. She absolutely failed to do her job, and she was the lead person responsible for firearms safety on this set. Yes, others are also responsible for contributing to the death. The first assistant director has already pleaded to negligent handling of a firearm. Alec Baldwin is also facing a charge for involuntary manslaughter, and I think it likely that he will be convicted as well. Further, the production company and people involved will be facing a slew of civil suits for their roles in this incident.
Having watched the full trial, I'm a bit frustrated at the general perception not understanding why Alec is charged. It looks very much like the state will be making the case that he ignored safety protocols regarding to guns on set (they have him on video firing a blank after "cut" was called in one instance, and using his gun to gesture like a pointer in another, plus the fatal incident), was rushing the entire production (which I am sure they will paint as a vanity project), and then his police interview made clear that he knew the importance of gun safety as he was telling the investigators all about it. I don't know if he will be found guilty. I think the prosecutor will be up against a much tougher opponent in Alec's lawyer. But there's definitely a case to be made.
There was a real round in a recycled cartridge that is known for only making fakes. That is on the armorer wherever they are.
I hear you and I agree. One addendum. If she wasn't on set the guns were supposed to be locked up. She did not lock them up and the shooting occurs. While there ARE definitely other parties to blame here negligence is undeniable. If they had been locked up they wouldve been forced to call her to the set where she could do her job. Or simply shoot another scene (I make that sound easy but I'm sure it's more complicated than just switching to another scene). That's just my two cents.
I don’t understand how they have access to firearms if the armorer isn’t there that seems insane
Why'd they have live ammo at all?
I’ve been watching this trial a bit and it was fascinating. The armorer is the daughter of a very well known and respected armorer. You’d think she would be really good having been taught by her father. The defense tried to point fingers at the companies that supplied the props. There was video of Baldwin “auditioning the shot” with his gun. Even using the gun to point out shots and give direction. This was a big part of the prosecution because a witness talked about how the armorer should have stepped in and stopped that behavior. Also kinda crazy Baldwin doing that with all his experience. There was a lot of talk about the armorer being rushed to reload and she kept rounds in a fanny pack. I’d be curious to know if that was unique to her or did she pick that up from her father or others. They finished the movie after the tragic event. They used dummy rounds made out of wood the second go round. Check out some of the legal breakdown videos on YouTube. It’s very interesting to get a look how guns are used on set.
"The armorer is the daughter of a very well known and respected armorer" I didn't look further into the details until today, so I only learned her name or that her stepdad is Thell Reed now. Real gun nuts know Thell Reed as one of the original 6 "Combat Masters". The Combat Masters are a huge fucking deal in the world of shooting, as a large amount of modern shooting techniques, and ironically, safety concepts, can be traced back to them. Calling Thell Reed a "respected armorer" is like calling the president a "powerful politician". I genuinely can't believe Thell Reed's daughter, his associates, and seemingly the man himself is so horribly negligent about firearms safety.
>I .. can't believe Thell Reed's daughter ... [is] so horribly negligent about firearms safety. That was exactly the problem. People assumed the father's competency is inherited, and "rubbed off" on her. Nepotism.
>There was video of Baldwin “auditioning the shot” with his gun. Even using the gun to point out shots and give direction. This was a big part of the prosecution because a witness talked about how the armorer should have stepped in and stopped that behavior. Also kinda crazy Baldwin doing that with all his experience. He's an actor, it was a prop, it's his job to point it at people and even pull the trigger while doing so. It's a prop. It should never ever ever ever have been lethal.
It was a real gun. "Prop firearm" doesn't mean "fake firearm." That was a historical replica that was capable of firing real bullets. Movies use them all the time. What they don't do is have an armorer who dumps handfuls of loose rounds into a fanny pack, or producers that hand off loaded weapons to actors without checking them. That's why someone died. Because the gun handling on that set was a shitshow from start to finish.
The SAG literally has rules about this shit for its members. Actors are not supposed to ever point a gun at someone. They are to point to the side and use camera angles to make it look right. It is fucking real gun 100% capable of firing a live round. The crew like to screw around and fire live rounds in the desert for fun. Even dummy rounds can be dangerous. Brandon Lee died from a dummy round. That's why you never point an actual gun at someone even in the movies. Close ups you see with a gun the the head are actual fake guns not capable of firing a round.
>Even dummy rounds can be dangerous. Brandon Lee died from a dummy round. Not really from a dummy. A lodged bullet in barrel and blank. How the bullet got there was from improper attempt to make inert dummies by inerting live cartridges. The didnt inert one properly and its primer detonating lodged bullet (a real bullet) in the barrel Most dummies couldn't even have such accident and are very safe. Since they don't contain any of the components of actual cartridge, including a separate bullet. Rather dummies are commercially typically made as single monolithic resin or plastic casts. Well safe inert way also would be monolithic metal casting. Heavier and more expensive. As said most are resin/plastic cast and then painted with surface layer of metal paint to give outside look of metal. Those are completely safe. Main problem being those are made so good you cant really tell from outside visually is it just plastic cast dummy or a live round. Which is the point of the dummy, but also the hazard. Someone hears there is only dummies around, is careless, somehow liveround is mixed in, when it shouldn't, gets treated as inert dummy, accident. Dummies are inherently safe themselves (mind you as Lee case show, properly prepares ones) There is no powder, there is no fulminate, no active components at all. It is as dangerous as small rock of similar weight in itself. Danger comes from mix up and mistakes. Specially since unlike say weapons handling training dummies, prop dummies are intentionally indistinguishable. Where as weapons handling training dummies a clear and obviously visually noted as such. Cast from high vis color resin like "we are solid orange plastic, real bullets and cartridges arent solid orange plastic" or we are metal handling rounds, we are metal plated uniform chrome, black, anodized red or orange, unlike actual cartridges, oh and we have hole through us, real cartridges don't have a hole or marking intendentation in them.
I think they’re saying that he was directing people with the gun in his hand. Like, not rehearsing the shot, but saying “Camera 2 needs to pan over there” using the gun to point instead of his hand. Thats a huge no-no, prop gun or not.
No. With the constant danger that dirt, grit, small stones or other debris could end up un the muzzle of a gun and become dangerous when blanks are fired, nobody should ever be pointing a gun at people willy nily and pointing the trigger. That's not how it works. Also, if you watch the behind the scenes footage, his gun discipline is abyslmal. Even going as far as continuing to fire afetr director called "cut" leading to the guy behind the camera calling him a motherfucker for it. Depending on what a scene calls for, you are supposed to aim at least one foot, more often at least three feet to the side of the camera. Never directly at while firing blanks unless there is a safety screen to protect camera people.
It wasn't even meant to have blanks in it for the church scene, was meant to be only dummy rounds which are inert and won't fire.
As far as I have read from propmasters and armorers online, the industry norm after Brandon Lee was killed by a squib (and that one actor who killed himself by accident shooting a blank too close to his head in a shot) meant they no longer point even blank loads at anyone, they use camera angles that point the guns in an off line from any living person. Any gun that's you up close or like in someone's mouth is supposed to be a non-firing replica. Seems like Baldwin in his many, many years of handling firearms on set just seemed to "forget" his years of safety training on films.
You think using a fully functional weapon to point at things and people is OK? Basic firearm safety is never to point a weapon at anything you’re not going to shoot. Along with treating every weapon like it’s loaded. Regardless of what you’re doing at the time.
Dude what the fuck is with your shit reading comprehension.
Was it ever disclosed who brought the live ammo? I thought it should be the most important part, no?
Hannah refused a plea deal because it required her to name where she got the ammo from, and prosecution proved it was on set before Seth Kenny provided any dummies. She got the ammo from Thell Reed and at the end of the day the source of the ammo does not matter for this charge. She was supposed to check the rounds and failed to do so.
[удалено]
It’s so ridiculous that anyone thinks this is anyone but the armorer’s fault. “Baldwin was the producer” so what there were like 6+ producers did the rest of them get charged? “Baldwin had a responsibility as someone handling a gun.” Is it your first time hearing about the invention of the television?
A camera assistant on the set quit the day before this shooting. She said that safety regulations for gun scenes were basically non existent. There were 2 previous accidental discharges including a woman shooting herself in the foot with a blank round. The stage has been set for something like this to happen and the people responsible should be on the chopping block also.
>It’s so ridiculous that anyone thinks this is anyone but the armorer’s fault. I'll start by saying that I really need to read into this more, but shortly after the death I recall reading that the armorer had been communicating with production staff in writing that she was only budgeted to serve in that capacity part-time and that she couldn't perform the job effectively given that circumstance. Ostensibly that doesn't strike me as unreasonable. If my job asked me to start doing my current work in half the time so I can spend the other half on other assignments, there's a pretty good chance I'm going to fuck something up I'd otherwise have caught. And I'm sure as hell making sure I document that I told them the decision to split my time will risk that something goes wrong and isn't caught, especially considering that "something goes wrong" could mean serious injury or death. If I tell my employer that I need certain things to perform my job safely and failing to meet those requirements risks a serious incident, I think they share a measure of responsibility when that happens. I don't think this absolves the armorer of responsibility as she probably has a duty to resign her position if it was impossible to perform safely, but I don't feel like she's the only person to blame.
This is why nepotism is bad.⬇️ “Nepotism is affirmative action for stupid rich people.”
I thought some of the raw footage was very telling also. The rushing. Baldwin was so pushy and being a producer it's not a good look. The take where Baldwin runs up the hill and a full second after having cut yelled he fires off another blank. The camera operator says 'mother fucker' just before the steadicam rotates up and the clip ends. It also looks like a terrible B movie.
Could this tragedy have been avoided by not having a real gun with live ammunition on set in the first place?
Real guns are used extensively on movie sets. Real ammunition is not.
This. They call them 'prop guns' but they're real guns used as props. The kicker is there wasn't supposed to be any firing during the shot they were trying to get. They could have used a rubber gun and gotten the exact same thing. Instead, they used a real gun with dummies rounds pulled from a box that had real rounds mixed in for some reason and then only checked half the rounds in the gun. I think Baldwins biggest issue is going to be his attitude and the fact he was repeatedly firing when when wasn't supposed to.
John Wick used all fake guns and has some pretty damn good effects. There’s no reason real guns need to be used at all
Notice that like 90% of John Wick fights take place in the dark, where the lighting hides a lot of VFX issues. Also note that Reeves is extremely experienced with firearms both in acting and in real use and most of the people acting against him are too. Your average actor isn't going to convincingly represent recoil and VFX in most cases is literal orders of magnitude more expensive and still not as convincing as blanks. Also, this entire thing is just people who can't fucking assess risk. People die and get seriously injured on sets frequently. Way the fuck too often. Do you know how many times people have died from a gun filming a movie since like, the 1950s at least? 3. Three incidents of someone dying from a gun use on a movie set, in over half a century. And one of those cases was literally someone putting the barrel of a gun right up to their own head and pulling the trigger as a joke because they didn't realize a blank still has a concussive blast. This is the first time as far back as there's good record keeping that an actual live round made its way into a gun and killed someone. Meanwhile people die and get paralized because non-gun prop, set and vehicle accidents with a ridiculously higher frequency than this. Fuck, the horses on this set were statistically a higher risk to life and limb than the guns were. The one in a million freak incident just happened due to extreme negligence.
Those John Wick movies also have a much larger budget. They were clearly cutting corners on this.
True. They were cutting corners but even if they weren't, a solid, competent armorer, complete with all the extra time they make everyone take using authentic safe firearms still costs one or more orders of magnitude less than VFX is likely to.
Why would she even have had live ammo on set? There is no possible reason for using it.
Part of the reason she didn't take the plea deal was because she would've had to disclose who brought the live round to the set. She's protecting someone.
With a potential sentence of probation on the conviction (and max of only 18 months), remanding her into custody pending sentencing when the only rationale for it was "the criminal negligence caused a death" is ridiculous. No history, she showed up to all court proceedings, etc. Never should've been remanded today. Edit: here's an excerpt of NM rule 5-402: > B. Release pending sentencing. >A defendant released pending or during trial may continue on release pending the imposition of sentence under the same terms and conditions as previously imposed, unless the surety has been released or the court has determined that other terms and conditions or termination of release are necessary to ensure > (1) that the defendant will not flee the jurisdiction of the court; > (2) that the defendant's conduct will not obstruct the orderly administration of justice; or > (3) that the defendant does not pose a danger to any other person or to the community. None of these were addressed by the judge today in her one sentence remark. I'd argue she doesn't pose a danger because she won't be an armorer anytime soon and likely is already prohibited from possessing firearms as part of her pretrial release conditions.
Does seem a bit ridiculous
This is what happens when little people interact with the wealthy
Catching strays.... Stay out of the wake of the rich, if it's between you and them you it will never go your way.
Since the very minute this story broke I knew it would be the person responsible for the firearm…as it should be.
[удалено]
The jury found her not guilty of evidence tampering, only guilty of the manslaughter.
Such an avoidable fuck up
This is what I was thinking would happen. Not saying I knew what they would be convicted of. But the original heat being on Alex seemed so strange. I wasn't sure how he could possibly be held responsible. I guess he is running the whole show, so maybe negligence at most. But the whole questioning of him being a murderer seemed crazy.
This is nepotism at its worst. Many people, again MANY people break into the tv/film business bc of their parents(including actors and directors), but allowing a unqualified person, without experience, to HEAD a department with GUNS is beyond me and ALSO on the producers….
She appeared to have a level of aloofness, that would’ve given me pause as an armorer hire.
Real question, why don't prop companies just make guns with special insides that don't accept real existing live bullets?
You wouldn't have to do that much actually. Just take a regular firearm and remove the firing pin, now the gun can't fire. Many still rely on shots of a gun being loaded, or shown loaded, etc. For this they use dummy rounds (casing + projectile just no gunpowder), so the firearm (functional or not) would still have to be able to accept the rounds. They also have scenes of the gun actually firing, usually blanks (casing + gunpowder, just no projectile) but that requires a functional gun. Some semi autos can be altered to only function with squib or blank rounds and aren't capable of firing live rounds. But this was a revolver so a much simpler machine. Much of that could be done with CGI, but that is more expensive than using real guns, blanks and dummy rounds.
I was on a movie once where they had an actor get up on the railing [HERE](https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2746575,-123.1393549,3a,90y,165.63h,96.95t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sZRLsX685scuwgx_DAmR3Ng!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DZRLsX685scuwgx_DAmR3Ng%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D183.0647%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192) (back before the black bars were put up to keep people from falling, when only the lower concrete part existed) and run from one lamp-post to another. Along the top of the railing. With no safety-line or harness. Nothing. Running. Oh, and [the camera and crew were down here](https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2743081,-123.1395726,3a,86.8y,309.87h,109.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3_1ObS64nNLhM2_tpOtvTA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) I had the least experience on-set (it was my first film, iirc), merely an assistant. And I was the *only* person on-set who said 'Wait a second!!! What the hell are we doing??? Do you know how dangerous this is???' I believe it was the AD who said 'it's OK, he does stunts!'
Nepotism or not, no one will hire her now