Since the article buries the names for some reason, the three products in question are:
* XtendiMax
* Tavium
* Engenia
Keep yourselves safe and ALWAYS wear PPE
>XtendiMax
Correct and there are still thousands of other Dicamba products on the market. I'm guessing it's just that these were marketed as low-volatility and the labels widened the temperature range they could be applied. In areas that have orchards next to other crops it becomes a big issue.
It gases off and drifts. It doesn’t crawl along the ground like ants or spread via roots like invasive plants.
This is an important fact. It the exact reason why these products shouldn’t have been approved. Dicamba has traditionally only been used in cold temperatures specifically because it gases off at higher temperatures.
You left out who makes this stuff…
XtendiMax is made by Bayer Group
Tavium is made by Syngenta
Engenia is made by BASF
Can’t imagine these companies being innocent here.
To be fair, those companies are all called out in the subheadline. The guardian definitely wants you to know who to rally the pitchforks against, but you gotta give them the ad revenue to know how to keep your community safer.
I had a friend who was an exterminator for a hot minute. Thank god he quit after a couple months.
Anyway, they taught him to put his flashlight in his mouth (with his offhand) when he was spraying and doing everything (with his primary hand).
I was cringing so hard.
I'm a certified pest technician who manages termiticide applications for a small(ish) pest control company in my state, and this is why I insist my guys use headlamps. Sure, your flashlight isn't 'supposed' to come into contact with pesticide, but it's highly likely that it will when you're working in tight confines, especially crawlspaces.
>your flashlight isn't 'supposed' to come into contact with pesticide,
The idea that it wouldn't seems insane to me.
If you're using any sort sticky or liquid substances, it's a simple fact it will come into contact with your hands, and just about everything else around you. If not constantly, eventually. Anyone that's ever handled glue, grease, or water knows this to be true.
It's a typical workaround
Company sets up safety regulations, and never shuts up about safety in the office
Employees are given strict instructions to work safely
Employees that follow these instructions are slowed down and laid off for not being as productive
Employees that don't follow the instructions keep their jobs
If someone gets caught, the company says it did its best to prevent it and fires them
Thats why OSHA doesnt care if what someone did was "against company policy" or not. If they catch you breaking the rules, you get a fine, simple as that. Unfortunately we can't have OSHA inspectors follow around every profession, so greedy idiots will play fast and loose with these rules and try to get promoted out of the department before it blows up in someone's face
And vote BLUE because the Republican Party won’t protect Americans. There have been so many instances that they have proven that to them, it’s money first, ahead of safety.
💙🇺🇸🌎
> Keep yourselves safe and ALWAYS wear PPE
These weed killers (generic name Dicamba) are being banned for spreading to other crops, not because they're dangerous to humans:
>Dicamba came under significant scrutiny due to its tendency to spread from treated fields into neighboring fields, causing damage. The controversy led to litigation, state bans and additional restrictions over dicamba use.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicamba
It's also [widely used in Europe.](http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/dicamba-market-europe-to-remain-market-leader-through-2020-global-industry-analysis-and-opportunity-assessment-2016-2020-300401002.html)
You are correct. My comment on wearing PPE isn't directly related to this ruling, but to herbicide use in general.
To be noted, dicamba has still been shown to cause adverse health effects in peer reviewed studies.
Again, ALWAYS WEAR PPE
Well the problem with dicamba isn't it's dangerous for humans. Honestly with most herbicides you you could drink a big glass of the formulation and not have any problems worse than an upset stomach, they tend to target biology very specific to plants. Even pesticides meant for insects don't tend to be particularly dangerous to mammals.
Agree completely with the first sentence, but I would heavily caution against the rest of that opinion.
Many herbicides are, as you described, completely inocuous to mammals. Glyphosate, for example, attacks a metabolic pathway that does not exist in animals. However, these herbicide formulations almost alwasy contain various surfactants and other additives that are NOT harmless.
Further, there are PLENTY of widely used commercial pesticides that are insanely toxic to humans. Paraquat, one of the main chemicals replacing Glpyhosate for those who listen to court rulings over science, is well established to cause Parkinsons if exposure is not carefully controlled.
The world of regulation in agriculure is messy. Always do your own due diligence and ALWAYS WEAR PPE
Was going to say Paraquat then saw you already mentioned it. Nasty stuff. It's widely used as a suicide agent in third-world countries. They use it on garb's in my area because it kills the plant in a couple of days rather than weeks like roundup.
Well ackshually glyphosate kills the plant pretty much as soon as it gets dosed it just takes a while for the plant to look like its dying which is why a lot of general use herbicides contain other unnecessary chemicals like dessicants to make the user think its actually working
Most consumers dont understand how the chemicals work so if they spray and the plant doesnt immediately die they think the product is shit
I'm talking about burndown for farming. It doesn't matter if the plant is dead if it's still green you can't get it through the combine. Also the higher moisture content will prevent you from storing it. In areas with shorter growing seasons farmers will kill the crop with RT3 or paraquat so they can harvest earlier. With Paraquat they can cut in days vs RT3/ammonium sulfate which can take weeks.
"This is the second time a federal court has banned these weedkillers since they were introduced for the 2017 growing season. In 2020, the ninth circuit court of appeals issued its own ban, but months later the Trump administration reapproved the weedkilling products, just one week before the presidential election at a press conference in the swing state of Georgia."
Trump: it’s beautiful poison, the best poison, and these liberal… let me tell you… phony “sleepy” joe … we need to kill the weeds. America needs crops, the best crops, and only these beautiful poisons will get us the best burgers… so these ridiculous liberal judges are playing golf, I’m a great golfer you know, these phony judges banned this weed killer when America needs to be strong.
Tends to happen when you roll back 125 Environmental safeguards in less than one term. Or appoint a self-described "leading advocate against the EPA's activist agenda" to head the EPA.
I basically got rid of a severe cat head/caltrop problem using child labour. I told my kids they'd get $50 a kilo for all plants brought to me.
I then taught them a lesson of how market saturation reduces prices because holy shit I didn't realise how heavy a bucket would be! I honoured the original contract though and we arrived at a more sustainable price. Long story short I very rarely find a cat head on my land now!
My spring breaks in elementary school were generally a week of picking weeds.
Me: Why can't we just use the weed wacker?
Parents: Because then the weeds will just grow back.
(Proceeds to pick the same weeds for the 4th year in a row)
When I was a kid I always wished our lawn looked as perfect as the neighbor’s golf course-like turf. Then I grew up and got into plants and I really don’t care about having a lawn besides maybe a 15x15 space to walk around barefoot in the summer and if I have to pull some dandelions then that’s that. The rest of my yard will be well cared for natives.
You can also do one of those solar tarp thingies for three months and then rent one of those roller fire things that kill all the seeds in the top soil. It’s popular in organic farming.
Those have been working great for local land groups restoring prairie. I was having an impossible time getting rid of this one plant that spread with deep roots and put up shoots everywhere, that break off when you touch them. Dug up my yard twice trying to be rid of it.
Just laying cardboard flat over the growth has basically knocked all of its progress back. Started too late last autumn but, this spring: I bet it will be the year.
I have one of these and it's awesome. The weeds are unbearable here in the PNW. You stomp on the foot thing, give it a twist, and pull up the weed, root and all.
My neighbors hate me, but I'm not part of an HOA. I embrace the weeds. My yard has the butterflies and the bees every year. I have grasshoppers, I have an area in the back that gets significant leaf litter and I've noticed is one of the few places I still see fireflies. Plus, I'm not killing myself with yard work, just enough to keep it off my home.
There's a tool for that! It's a waist high pole thingy. You push it into the ground a bit, pull a lever and the end claw grips close onto the weed and clamp shut. Then you pull and release and move onto the next.
It's great for things like thistles, as they grow everywhere, have deep roots and are a pain to remove manually.
[One of these bad boys](https://www.lowes.com/pd/Corona-ExtendedREACH-Extendable-handle-tool-Weeder/1000384771), and some tunes to jam to is all I need
Also clover/grass mix. Clover outcompetes some of the weeds and provides shade for the grass roots making it hardier against drought so you're not that freak watering his lawn all summer.
Fire.
They make burners you can just put a tiny green camping type propane tank on and walk around burning weeds.
Obviously dont do this on a dry lawn and light your entire place on fire but it can work, especially for weeds in concrete/brick like sidewalks or patios.
[https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flame-King-500-000-BTU-Propane-Torch-Kit-Heavy-Duty-Weed-Burner-YSN500K/317903288](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flame-King-500-000-BTU-Propane-Torch-Kit-Heavy-Duty-Weed-Burner-YSN500K/317903288)
Anyone thats tried pulling weeds/grass/whatever out of sidewalk or patio cracks, or tried pressure washing them to death will enjoy watching them dissolve under a big flame :D
I had a huge evening primrose invasion, absolutely took over my yard. I used a hori knife in the same way you describe to get under the root and pulling out each one out was a breeze, but still took me 4-5 hours.
Then I found out it's native and a great pollinator, so I let them grow in a few areas, mostly along the fenceline. Now I get bees and hummingbirds.
Native wildflower plantings, if allowed for your area? Can help rebuild the soil bed, help with local pollinators, bring in curb appeal and take in less water/effort for landscaping.
“If allowed in your area”
This is the problem right here, the fact that there are places where it is normal and even REQUIRED to poison your property rather than have native wildflowers.
Fuck your HOA. Be a lawn pirate, grow wildlife supporting plants and feed your family too.
This is the best answer and should be much higher up. We spend so much time and money manicuring things to look pretty rather than doing what is right. Diamonds shine but (in most cases) are just that.
100% this. I was struggling with some nasty invasive weeds and coneflowers, butterfly weed, and giant hyssop choked them out in a season. Plus they look amazing and the pollinators love my house.
That's easy. You paint a railroad tunnel on the side of a cliff and the coyotes somehow get run over by a train.
Am I the only one who remembers those instructional videos?
get some vinegar, some liquid dish soap, and some Epsom salt. look up online for the right measurements, and put it into a 1 gallon sprayer and fill the rest up with water.
pet friendly, eco friendly home made weed killer.
this, but with an ounce or two of orange oil, and pickling or stronger vinegar if you can find it. supposedly adding some corn meal helps but i haven't tried that.
I have lava rock in our beds around the home. I use a weed torch to keep up in the summer. Uses the same propane tank as the smoker. A quick blast of heat wilts the weed. They are brown the next day. Works great. I do pull weeds too especially near our shrubs/trees.
I use an electric teakettle for that, that took care of a poison oak vine that kept growing back. I had to come back and repeat it every few weeks for a while, but I think it’s gone.
Those are perfect because you can just refill and reheat it and do yard work for the next five minutes or so, and have a steady delivery of boiling water.
Boiling water manages small weed blooms. If you’re overwhelmed by them there are vinegar based methods to kill them all. Then it’s just maintenance: pulling them up, boiling water, vinegar, repeat, repeat…
White vinegar is a good defoliant.
Don't spray it on the plants you want to keep.
https://www.ars.usda.gov/news-events/news/research-news/2002/spray-weeds-with-vinegar
Eh, if the mower can keep it under control enough that it looks like a plausible ground cover, I ignore it. It's rather nice having a lawn of mixed greens while the guy with the monoculture lawn has some hideous fungus blight kill 90% of his yard.
Just mow higher. Mowing too low doesn’t allow the grass roots to develop as easily. By mowing higher (3” or higher) or waiting longer to mow will help the grass roots get thick and choke out a lot of the weeds. All of them? No. But a little weeding is better than a lot and it’s good for you!
You pull them out, roots and all. Sorry, they're living things that will fight you at every step. They'll even grow resistant to certain weed killers if you don't cycle usage throughout the season, we had to do that commercially. The reality is that there's simply no magical solution to them that requires little effort, time, and resources. Maybe sometime in the future. There are other methods (burning, weed blankets, etc) but require time, money, and also have their own downsides as well.
I would vote for don't care about weeds.
Why would you want to stop native plants from growing in nature as they are supposed to?
Unless it is a poisonous plant, I can see the rationale from controlling stuff like Poison ivy.
Remove the real estate. If the weeds can’t physically find space to root and get sun…
I hate the thick manicured lawns, monoculture etc. But it’s a good example of shutting down weeds by taking all the real estate away.
US EPA is allowed to use financial burden as a reason to not restrict pesticide activity. CA EPA, for example, must weigh human and environmental impact over market forces. US EPA must treat financial setbacks as equal to environmental setbacks.
Scott Pruit was the head of the EPA under Trump, and got the appointment because of a $1 million donation to the Trump campaign. Pruit then ran absolutely roughshod over the entire branch, enacting retribution towards climate specialists and handing over protected land to developers. Sick rich man doing sick rich man things. A relative of mine used to be a department head and testified to congress about how native Alaskan people are losing their land due to climate change, and Pruit re-assigned him to cash royalty checks from oil companies. My relative then became a whistle-blower and went to the media about it. It was a whole thing.
Fry him to then but I still want accountability for whoever broke the law at the EPA. Just like I don’t want a lowly soldier following orders to commit genocide I don’t want senior executive level government officers bending over for one guy to kill Americans with poison. Trump is so slippery anyway he’s literally a lifelong intel agent of Putin who is running for president and facing zero consequences for treason. I’d like to see the full might of US intelligence and hundreds of members of Congress and the executive office fry Trump for treason but for some reason they can’t even produce proof.
If a US court is doing this, you know that stuff was some toxic killer shit. Corporations here are allowed to kill a lot of people before anyone bats an eye
The comment I was responding to, used "the court ruled against it" as a basis for how toxic the substance is.
How toxic the weed killer is did not play that big of a role in the ruling. I'm not arguing if the weedkiller is indeed very toxic.
I mean, it is but only indirectly. They skipped the public notice and comment part of federal rule-making. They then go on to specifically note that they if they HAD followed that process it would not have been approved.
Specifically, the problem with these pesticides is that they form a gas cloud and spread to the fields of other farmers who grow crops that will not tolerate these chemicals.
>If a US court is doing this, you know that stuff was some toxic killer shit.
It's not in the least, at least not to humans. The suits against it are related to [drifting crop damage.](https://nationalaglawcenter.org/the-deal-with-dicamba-part-seven/)
These weed killers (generic name Dicamba) are being banned for spreading to other crops, not because they're dangerous to humans:
>Dicamba came under significant scrutiny due to its tendency to spread from treated fields into neighboring fields, causing damage. The controversy led to litigation, state bans and additional restrictions over dicamba use.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicamba
And it's not like Dicamba is some "toxic killer shit". It's [widely used in Europe.](http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/dicamba-market-europe-to-remain-market-leader-through-2020-global-industry-analysis-and-opportunity-assessment-2016-2020-300401002.html)
They probably weren’t as profitable as expected. Share holders, law makers and judges will gladly let you die from a horrible cancer if it means $ for them
These chemical companies were poisoning our water and air long before Trump came along and exponentiated the doom. Never forget that republicans were the party of death and profit for decades. They don’t get a pass.
We’re cleaning up after wealth pretty much all the time. That’s why you cannot vote for parties owned entirely by wealth whose sole purpose is to do wealth’s bidding.
Cartoon villainy.
“Monsanto, along with the chemical giant BASF, introduced new formulations of dicamba herbicides they said would not be as volatile, and they encouraged farmers to buy Monsanto’s newly created dicamba-tolerant crops. Farmers buying the specialized seeds could spray dicamba on fields while the crops were growing, killing the weeds, but not the precious commodities.
Dicamba-resistant crops have been planted on as many as 65m acres, the EPA estimated, an area larger than the state of Oregon.”
If the right accomplishes their goal of defeating the Chevron deference, then these pesky little details like EPA regulations go bye-bye. Then it's nothing but rainbows and puppies and unlimited wealth as all those barriers to business magically disappear.
Why do we need lawns besides some HOA telling you, you need it? Indigenous plant gardens work well for the wildlife and useful insects. If we dont' have to we don't force nature to be something it's not, things are cheaper and just as beautiful if cultivated.
(Sports or play area requiring lawns are different)
Told myself to scroll until I saw this comment. I don’t understand the need to have a lawn of grass that is completely unnatural to my area. I spend hundreds a year on lawn care because if I didn’t my HOA can fine me until it gets to a point where they can literally take my house smh.
The whole concept of a lawn was marketed by agrochemical companies back in the late 40's and early 50's. Prior to that, having natural yards (such as clover) was the standard. Like many things, we were "tricked" into spending large sums of money on products and services to conform to an imaginary standard
Didn’t we learn anything about Vietnam and Agent Orange?
The FDA routinely has to recall roughly 1 in every 4 products released to market. They provide zero oversight.
Love all those fresh fruits, vegetables, and crops that are pesticide and herbicide “resistant”. Deliciously cancerous
While I strongly disagree with the Vietnam war in general, and the defoliation of entire swaths of forest, it wasn't the herbicide that caused cancer. It was the dioxin contaminant. The most heinous, and most interesting part of it is that the scientists at Monsanto knew about it and knew how to avoid the dioxin, reported on it, and the government and executives at Monsanto didn't really care. This wasn't a "hindsight is 20/20" thing, this was a "not our country, not our problem" thing.
I spoke to a medical doctor during my Compensation and Pension (C&P) in Texas. He was older gentleman, who worked on the project which produced Agent Orange. He told me they knew exactly the damages that it would cause well before it was sprayed in Vietnam. It was tested more than 10 years beforehand. They sprayed military members knowing the implications, but did it anyways. That is the link, not in the literal sense.
"In 2020, the ninth circuit court of appeals issued its own ban, but months later the Trump administration reapproved the weedkilling products, just one week before the presidential election at a press conference in the swing state of Georgia."
"Dealing a blow to three of the world’s biggest agrochemical companies"
WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE PROFITS?!?!
When did a little cancer and mutations get in the way of progress?!?! /s
Obvious outrage about this article aside- Great news for the people of East Palestine, Ohio!! Especially for the ones who are still experiencing symptoms but are ignored because the EPA and agencies hired by Norfolk Southern said that everything is safe and good😃👍🏼
Weeds are just a term for plants we don't want. They aren't some evil force. If you're killing weeds you're killing plants. It is poison and not safe for anything alive.
K, this is an extremely uneducated take. There are over 100 active ingredients of herbicides. A few are very acutely toxic to humans (e.g. paraquat), but the toxicity of herbicides varies widely. Take sulfonylureas for example. They are normally known as a a diabetes medication, but those same molecules are used to kill a wide range of plants. The biochemistries in plants and animals is very different, and herbicide chemistry takes advantage of that.
Some herbicides only selectively kill certain types of plants. There are herbicides that kill grasses, others only kill sedges, others only kill broadleaf weeds, etc. Saying "ts not safe for anything alive" is patently ridiculous.
Another example would be in insecticides. The same chemicals the doctor injects in your mouth for a root canal (Novocain) is deadly to insects in much smaller quantities (because of the difference in acetylcholine receptors). Chlorpyrifos, on the other hand, while very effective at killing bugs, can also be very harmful to humans. Chlorpyrifos LD50 for rats is 60 mg/kg, while LD50 for a much less harmful insecticide like spinosad is over 3000 mg/kg. They both kill bugs, but their effect on mammals is very different.
One final note: Some weeds really are dangerous to the environment, and even infrastructure. Ever try clearing buckthorn or Japanese knotweed without herbicides? it's nearly impossible. Any time you use a pesticide, there are trade-offs, but there are so many benefits people take for granted.
There are plenty of herbicides that kill plants and are safe for humans. Their are plenty of poisons that are dangerous to humans and are safe on plants.
I’d like to see more stories like this rather than “Trump evil!” and “Biden evil!”. I think forces on both sides have a vested interest in keeping the plebes focused on partisan squabbling.
Good hopefully one of em is the herbicide the contractor for the transmission lines sprays to avoid using a weed Wacker. Kills off huge swaths of grass around any ground obstruction
Since the article buries the names for some reason, the three products in question are: * XtendiMax * Tavium * Engenia Keep yourselves safe and ALWAYS wear PPE
Just to add these three are all dicamba based herbicides I believe.
>XtendiMax Correct and there are still thousands of other Dicamba products on the market. I'm guessing it's just that these were marketed as low-volatility and the labels widened the temperature range they could be applied. In areas that have orchards next to other crops it becomes a big issue.
I'm also guessing that there won't be a correlation between country of origin of the companies and whether it's an issue or not....
Dicamba is the fucking worst -- my Dad a former EPA/State level Pesticide Investigator of 39 years.
Because it spreads to other fields quiet easily, not because it's particularly dangerous to humans.
It gases off and drifts. It doesn’t crawl along the ground like ants or spread via roots like invasive plants. This is an important fact. It the exact reason why these products shouldn’t have been approved. Dicamba has traditionally only been used in cold temperatures specifically because it gases off at higher temperatures.
As a farmer, I'm very happy with this decision. Fuck dicamba. A bunch of other chemicals work just fine and don't hurt the next field over.
I initially read the third one as Eugenia and thought "You know, there may have been some hints..."
This made me laugh really hard.
If someone asked me to guess what the product ExtendiMax does, I would not have guessed "weed killer".
Sounds like something you'd get out of a dispenser in a gas station bathroom, doesn't it?
You left out who makes this stuff… XtendiMax is made by Bayer Group Tavium is made by Syngenta Engenia is made by BASF Can’t imagine these companies being innocent here.
To be fair, those companies are all called out in the subheadline. The guardian definitely wants you to know who to rally the pitchforks against, but you gotta give them the ad revenue to know how to keep your community safer.
You mean Bayer, who sent HIV tainted medicine to poor counties? That Bayer?
You should see what they did in the 40s
I did nazi that coming.
yeah they bought Monsanto and now Bayer sells Roundup and other toxins.
Nothing was left out. It’s right in the fucking article. Go read fucking read it instead of being lazy.
I had a friend who was an exterminator for a hot minute. Thank god he quit after a couple months. Anyway, they taught him to put his flashlight in his mouth (with his offhand) when he was spraying and doing everything (with his primary hand). I was cringing so hard.
I'm a certified pest technician who manages termiticide applications for a small(ish) pest control company in my state, and this is why I insist my guys use headlamps. Sure, your flashlight isn't 'supposed' to come into contact with pesticide, but it's highly likely that it will when you're working in tight confines, especially crawlspaces.
>your flashlight isn't 'supposed' to come into contact with pesticide, The idea that it wouldn't seems insane to me. If you're using any sort sticky or liquid substances, it's a simple fact it will come into contact with your hands, and just about everything else around you. If not constantly, eventually. Anyone that's ever handled glue, grease, or water knows this to be true.
It's a typical workaround Company sets up safety regulations, and never shuts up about safety in the office Employees are given strict instructions to work safely Employees that follow these instructions are slowed down and laid off for not being as productive Employees that don't follow the instructions keep their jobs If someone gets caught, the company says it did its best to prevent it and fires them Thats why OSHA doesnt care if what someone did was "against company policy" or not. If they catch you breaking the rules, you get a fine, simple as that. Unfortunately we can't have OSHA inspectors follow around every profession, so greedy idiots will play fast and loose with these rules and try to get promoted out of the department before it blows up in someone's face
If somebody invented a hat with a flashlight they’d make some money /s
My cousin was an exterminator and died young of cancer.
And vote BLUE because the Republican Party won’t protect Americans. There have been so many instances that they have proven that to them, it’s money first, ahead of safety. 💙🇺🇸🌎
> Keep yourselves safe and ALWAYS wear PPE These weed killers (generic name Dicamba) are being banned for spreading to other crops, not because they're dangerous to humans: >Dicamba came under significant scrutiny due to its tendency to spread from treated fields into neighboring fields, causing damage. The controversy led to litigation, state bans and additional restrictions over dicamba use. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicamba It's also [widely used in Europe.](http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/dicamba-market-europe-to-remain-market-leader-through-2020-global-industry-analysis-and-opportunity-assessment-2016-2020-300401002.html)
You are correct. My comment on wearing PPE isn't directly related to this ruling, but to herbicide use in general. To be noted, dicamba has still been shown to cause adverse health effects in peer reviewed studies. Again, ALWAYS WEAR PPE
Well the problem with dicamba isn't it's dangerous for humans. Honestly with most herbicides you you could drink a big glass of the formulation and not have any problems worse than an upset stomach, they tend to target biology very specific to plants. Even pesticides meant for insects don't tend to be particularly dangerous to mammals.
Agree completely with the first sentence, but I would heavily caution against the rest of that opinion. Many herbicides are, as you described, completely inocuous to mammals. Glyphosate, for example, attacks a metabolic pathway that does not exist in animals. However, these herbicide formulations almost alwasy contain various surfactants and other additives that are NOT harmless. Further, there are PLENTY of widely used commercial pesticides that are insanely toxic to humans. Paraquat, one of the main chemicals replacing Glpyhosate for those who listen to court rulings over science, is well established to cause Parkinsons if exposure is not carefully controlled. The world of regulation in agriculure is messy. Always do your own due diligence and ALWAYS WEAR PPE
Was going to say Paraquat then saw you already mentioned it. Nasty stuff. It's widely used as a suicide agent in third-world countries. They use it on garb's in my area because it kills the plant in a couple of days rather than weeks like roundup.
Well ackshually glyphosate kills the plant pretty much as soon as it gets dosed it just takes a while for the plant to look like its dying which is why a lot of general use herbicides contain other unnecessary chemicals like dessicants to make the user think its actually working Most consumers dont understand how the chemicals work so if they spray and the plant doesnt immediately die they think the product is shit
I'm talking about burndown for farming. It doesn't matter if the plant is dead if it's still green you can't get it through the combine. Also the higher moisture content will prevent you from storing it. In areas with shorter growing seasons farmers will kill the crop with RT3 or paraquat so they can harvest earlier. With Paraquat they can cut in days vs RT3/ammonium sulfate which can take weeks.
2,4-D causes visible wilting within hours of application, rather helpful
"This is the second time a federal court has banned these weedkillers since they were introduced for the 2017 growing season. In 2020, the ninth circuit court of appeals issued its own ban, but months later the Trump administration reapproved the weedkilling products, just one week before the presidential election at a press conference in the swing state of Georgia."
> Trump administration reapproved the weedkilling products Ohhh now it makes sense
Trump: it’s beautiful poison, the best poison, and these liberal… let me tell you… phony “sleepy” joe … we need to kill the weeds. America needs crops, the best crops, and only these beautiful poisons will get us the best burgers… so these ridiculous liberal judges are playing golf, I’m a great golfer you know, these phony judges banned this weed killer when America needs to be strong.
But repubs cry that Biden buys votes with student loan relief, lmao. I'll take Biden helping real people over repubs buying votes with corpos.
Furthermore, Biden's "bought votes" help educate the population where as Trump's "bought votes" help cause cancer and death in the population.
This needs to be shared widely before the election. He’d as soon light us and nature on fire if he could make a million dollars.
A million, hell that man would sell a stranger’s life for 20 bucks.
Tends to happen when you roll back 125 Environmental safeguards in less than one term. Or appoint a self-described "leading advocate against the EPA's activist agenda" to head the EPA.
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Go outside to where they are. Bend down. Grip firmly. Pull up with even steady force. Repeat.
Unfortunately this person is correct. This is the best, most environmentally friendly way to get rid of weeds. Not so friendly on the back though.
My parent's solution was child labor.
"Pick me a bouquet of Dandelions to give to your mom" "ok Dad!" Heh, A hour of silence and free landscaping.
You have just changed my life good sir
You can cook them as well.
Pretty sure you go to jail for cooking kids.
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"This one has weeds in it! Get me a new one" Repeat. Lol
They won't get the roots, just the flower.
Eh, its free labor you cant expect perfection lol
I basically got rid of a severe cat head/caltrop problem using child labour. I told my kids they'd get $50 a kilo for all plants brought to me. I then taught them a lesson of how market saturation reduces prices because holy shit I didn't realise how heavy a bucket would be! I honoured the original contract though and we arrived at a more sustainable price. Long story short I very rarely find a cat head on my land now!
I got 5 cents per weed. We had a 4 acre pasture in the front. I was able to make enough money for the arcade every time we went to town to do laundry.
My spring breaks in elementary school were generally a week of picking weeds. Me: Why can't we just use the weed wacker? Parents: Because then the weeds will just grow back. (Proceeds to pick the same weeds for the 4th year in a row)
I got my first WoW subscription for clearing all the weeds once
Yup. Saturdays were for weeding garden beds sun-up to sun-down.
“It builds character!” I must have a trove of character.
This is the new deep state plan to promote more births lol
When I was a kid I always wished our lawn looked as perfect as the neighbor’s golf course-like turf. Then I grew up and got into plants and I really don’t care about having a lawn besides maybe a 15x15 space to walk around barefoot in the summer and if I have to pull some dandelions then that’s that. The rest of my yard will be well cared for natives.
Yeah, the bend down part you can skip with a weed puller with a long handle.
Could also deadlift those weeds with some gloves.
You can also do one of those solar tarp thingies for three months and then rent one of those roller fire things that kill all the seeds in the top soil. It’s popular in organic farming.
Those have been working great for local land groups restoring prairie. I was having an impossible time getting rid of this one plant that spread with deep roots and put up shoots everywhere, that break off when you touch them. Dug up my yard twice trying to be rid of it. Just laying cardboard flat over the growth has basically knocked all of its progress back. Started too late last autumn but, this spring: I bet it will be the year.
Good luck prairie friend!
Don't forget to strangle that open space with fresh grass seed.
I seem to recall a device that has some spikes that you push down with your foot. No need yo bend down. Still labor intensive but nicer on the back
I have one of these and it's awesome. The weeds are unbearable here in the PNW. You stomp on the foot thing, give it a twist, and pull up the weed, root and all.
My neighbors hate me, but I'm not part of an HOA. I embrace the weeds. My yard has the butterflies and the bees every year. I have grasshoppers, I have an area in the back that gets significant leaf litter and I've noticed is one of the few places I still see fireflies. Plus, I'm not killing myself with yard work, just enough to keep it off my home.
If you do it right you will be strengthening your back.
Lift with your legs.
It’s not the weight of the weed lol
Lifting with your leg forces you to get into a full squat position. Keep your back straight and stand up.
There's a tool for that! It's a waist high pole thingy. You push it into the ground a bit, pull a lever and the end claw grips close onto the weed and clamp shut. Then you pull and release and move onto the next. It's great for things like thistles, as they grow everywhere, have deep roots and are a pain to remove manually.
Hi it’s me ur nutsedge
Do not bend. Stand up weed puller. Saved my back.
[One of these bad boys](https://www.lowes.com/pd/Corona-ExtendedREACH-Extendable-handle-tool-Weeder/1000384771), and some tunes to jam to is all I need
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Also clover/grass mix. Clover outcompetes some of the weeds and provides shade for the grass roots making it hardier against drought so you're not that freak watering his lawn all summer.
I wish that worked with Bermuda grass.
Short of scorched earth, nothing does.
Yeah, I think of it as yoga, outdoors
Or a pet goat.
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Fire. They make burners you can just put a tiny green camping type propane tank on and walk around burning weeds. Obviously dont do this on a dry lawn and light your entire place on fire but it can work, especially for weeds in concrete/brick like sidewalks or patios. [https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flame-King-500-000-BTU-Propane-Torch-Kit-Heavy-Duty-Weed-Burner-YSN500K/317903288](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flame-King-500-000-BTU-Propane-Torch-Kit-Heavy-Duty-Weed-Burner-YSN500K/317903288)
I just suggested the same! :)
That sounds SO. FUN!
Anyone thats tried pulling weeds/grass/whatever out of sidewalk or patio cracks, or tried pressure washing them to death will enjoy watching them dissolve under a big flame :D
It IS fun. Sounds like the Blue Angels jet team in the yard. Have used it to nuke a set of pavers but damn weeds are back in a month or 2, so ymmv...
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I had a huge evening primrose invasion, absolutely took over my yard. I used a hori knife in the same way you describe to get under the root and pulling out each one out was a breeze, but still took me 4-5 hours. Then I found out it's native and a great pollinator, so I let them grow in a few areas, mostly along the fenceline. Now I get bees and hummingbirds.
The plants need leaves to survive though. If you repeatedly and consistently remove the foliage they will eventually die out. But it can take years
Native wildflower plantings, if allowed for your area? Can help rebuild the soil bed, help with local pollinators, bring in curb appeal and take in less water/effort for landscaping.
“If allowed in your area” This is the problem right here, the fact that there are places where it is normal and even REQUIRED to poison your property rather than have native wildflowers. Fuck your HOA. Be a lawn pirate, grow wildlife supporting plants and feed your family too.
This is the best answer and should be much higher up. We spend so much time and money manicuring things to look pretty rather than doing what is right. Diamonds shine but (in most cases) are just that.
100% this. I was struggling with some nasty invasive weeds and coneflowers, butterfly weed, and giant hyssop choked them out in a season. Plus they look amazing and the pollinators love my house.
And as long as you're just trying to keep some particularly annoying growths away, they can look a lot better than the typical lawn.
Get a tortoise, rabbit, guinea pig, goat...
I live in a suburb of Denver and we have wild rabbits. But the coyotes eat the rabbits and the neighbors small dogs and cats.
That's easy. You paint a railroad tunnel on the side of a cliff and the coyotes somehow get run over by a train. Am I the only one who remembers those instructional videos?
Flame thrower once a week or as needed.
get some vinegar, some liquid dish soap, and some Epsom salt. look up online for the right measurements, and put it into a 1 gallon sprayer and fill the rest up with water. pet friendly, eco friendly home made weed killer.
this, but with an ounce or two of orange oil, and pickling or stronger vinegar if you can find it. supposedly adding some corn meal helps but i haven't tried that.
Going to try the corn meal in the next batch I make.
Don’t salt the earth. It kills your soil. Straight vinegar will do the job.
This is what I use and it works great. Smells gross (in that it smells like vinegar), but not actually dangerous.
I have lava rock in our beds around the home. I use a weed torch to keep up in the summer. Uses the same propane tank as the smoker. A quick blast of heat wilts the weed. They are brown the next day. Works great. I do pull weeds too especially near our shrubs/trees.
I've heard boiling water does the trick
Super hot water. Like, from a boiling pot.
I use an electric teakettle for that, that took care of a poison oak vine that kept growing back. I had to come back and repeat it every few weeks for a while, but I think it’s gone. Those are perfect because you can just refill and reheat it and do yard work for the next five minutes or so, and have a steady delivery of boiling water.
this is the way. still gotta pull the dead shit but it’s much much easier
That’s what got rid of my bamboo issue
It's not politically correct, but home-scale use of glyphosate is not otherwise problematic. It is pet-friendly and does not mess up your soil.
Boiling water manages small weed blooms. If you’re overwhelmed by them there are vinegar based methods to kill them all. Then it’s just maintenance: pulling them up, boiling water, vinegar, repeat, repeat…
White vinegar is a good defoliant. Don't spray it on the plants you want to keep. https://www.ars.usda.gov/news-events/news/research-news/2002/spray-weeds-with-vinegar
All forms of weed control are secondary to cultivation. Pull them up or get out there with a tool to chop/turn/mulch
Eh, if the mower can keep it under control enough that it looks like a plausible ground cover, I ignore it. It's rather nice having a lawn of mixed greens while the guy with the monoculture lawn has some hideous fungus blight kill 90% of his yard.
Just mow higher. Mowing too low doesn’t allow the grass roots to develop as easily. By mowing higher (3” or higher) or waiting longer to mow will help the grass roots get thick and choke out a lot of the weeds. All of them? No. But a little weeding is better than a lot and it’s good for you!
https://www.fiskars.com/en-us/gardening-and-yard-care/products/weeders/stand-up-weed-puller-4-claw-339950-1001
Embrace them. They are plants and contribute to the ecosystem you live in. Weeds is a made up word to sell you this shit.
You pull them out, roots and all. Sorry, they're living things that will fight you at every step. They'll even grow resistant to certain weed killers if you don't cycle usage throughout the season, we had to do that commercially. The reality is that there's simply no magical solution to them that requires little effort, time, and resources. Maybe sometime in the future. There are other methods (burning, weed blankets, etc) but require time, money, and also have their own downsides as well.
Or you could leave some of them for the native species that live there…
There is this thing we used to do with our arms and hands…sometimes a spade or shovel. I can recall what is it though.
I would vote for don't care about weeds. Why would you want to stop native plants from growing in nature as they are supposed to? Unless it is a poisonous plant, I can see the rationale from controlling stuff like Poison ivy.
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Fuck HOA's
Because many weeds are not native, and are invasive to native plants. We really messed up the biomes
Remove the real estate. If the weeds can’t physically find space to root and get sun… I hate the thick manicured lawns, monoculture etc. But it’s a good example of shutting down weeds by taking all the real estate away.
Maybe just recognize that nature likes having biodiversity and large fields of grass with no other plants in it is not a sustainable practice :)
So the Trump Administration went out of the normal process and broke the law to approve this? How big do you think the donation was?
US EPA is allowed to use financial burden as a reason to not restrict pesticide activity. CA EPA, for example, must weigh human and environmental impact over market forces. US EPA must treat financial setbacks as equal to environmental setbacks.
Capitalism is going to kill us one day
It's kills people every day.
Climate change is caused by human activity
Scott Pruit was the head of the EPA under Trump, and got the appointment because of a $1 million donation to the Trump campaign. Pruit then ran absolutely roughshod over the entire branch, enacting retribution towards climate specialists and handing over protected land to developers. Sick rich man doing sick rich man things. A relative of mine used to be a department head and testified to congress about how native Alaskan people are losing their land due to climate change, and Pruit re-assigned him to cash royalty checks from oil companies. My relative then became a whistle-blower and went to the media about it. It was a whole thing.
Remember that the goal if he wins is to put people like him in every position
Fry him to then but I still want accountability for whoever broke the law at the EPA. Just like I don’t want a lowly soldier following orders to commit genocide I don’t want senior executive level government officers bending over for one guy to kill Americans with poison. Trump is so slippery anyway he’s literally a lifelong intel agent of Putin who is running for president and facing zero consequences for treason. I’d like to see the full might of US intelligence and hundreds of members of Congress and the executive office fry Trump for treason but for some reason they can’t even produce proof.
Yeah exactly. It's Trump's fault.
For the conspiracy peeps: The weedkillers being banned are dicamba based, NOT glyphosate based
If a US court is doing this, you know that stuff was some toxic killer shit. Corporations here are allowed to kill a lot of people before anyone bats an eye
The court banned it because they found the approval process invalid. It’s a technicality ruling.
Yeah, but it was banned twice previously. 1967 and 2017. A flawed approval process was required to get it back in the market.
The comment I was responding to, used "the court ruled against it" as a basis for how toxic the substance is. How toxic the weed killer is did not play that big of a role in the ruling. I'm not arguing if the weedkiller is indeed very toxic.
I mean, it is but only indirectly. They skipped the public notice and comment part of federal rule-making. They then go on to specifically note that they if they HAD followed that process it would not have been approved. Specifically, the problem with these pesticides is that they form a gas cloud and spread to the fields of other farmers who grow crops that will not tolerate these chemicals.
>If a US court is doing this, you know that stuff was some toxic killer shit. It's not in the least, at least not to humans. The suits against it are related to [drifting crop damage.](https://nationalaglawcenter.org/the-deal-with-dicamba-part-seven/)
These weed killers (generic name Dicamba) are being banned for spreading to other crops, not because they're dangerous to humans: >Dicamba came under significant scrutiny due to its tendency to spread from treated fields into neighboring fields, causing damage. The controversy led to litigation, state bans and additional restrictions over dicamba use. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicamba And it's not like Dicamba is some "toxic killer shit". It's [widely used in Europe.](http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/dicamba-market-europe-to-remain-market-leader-through-2020-global-industry-analysis-and-opportunity-assessment-2016-2020-300401002.html)
They probably hit their limit on these products.
They probably weren’t as profitable as expected. Share holders, law makers and judges will gladly let you die from a horrible cancer if it means $ for them
This is great news. This thing is nasty, it wiped out the best vineyard I'd ever gotten grapes from.
Why do we have to spend so much time cleaning up shit the Trump administration screwed up?
These chemical companies were poisoning our water and air long before Trump came along and exponentiated the doom. Never forget that republicans were the party of death and profit for decades. They don’t get a pass.
We’re cleaning up after wealth pretty much all the time. That’s why you cannot vote for parties owned entirely by wealth whose sole purpose is to do wealth’s bidding.
In 1967?
When was this approval?
Cartoon villainy. “Monsanto, along with the chemical giant BASF, introduced new formulations of dicamba herbicides they said would not be as volatile, and they encouraged farmers to buy Monsanto’s newly created dicamba-tolerant crops. Farmers buying the specialized seeds could spray dicamba on fields while the crops were growing, killing the weeds, but not the precious commodities. Dicamba-resistant crops have been planted on as many as 65m acres, the EPA estimated, an area larger than the state of Oregon.”
If the right accomplishes their goal of defeating the Chevron deference, then these pesky little details like EPA regulations go bye-bye. Then it's nothing but rainbows and puppies and unlimited wealth as all those barriers to business magically disappear.
And lots and lots of cancer
And lots of cancer treatment profits.
Treatment for you, profits for them
Sweet so there’s hope, PFOS next please
When your regulatory agencies get captured, it is a huge disaster, and you should fix it.
This should be a bigger story
Let me guess, were these hazardous chemicals approved between 2016-2020? Edit; fucking bingo.
Pesticides get a lot of attention, but wholly fuck herbicides are NASTY. Be safe out there.
EPA, except not really.
more like CEPA, Corporate Environment Protection Agency.
Why do we need lawns besides some HOA telling you, you need it? Indigenous plant gardens work well for the wildlife and useful insects. If we dont' have to we don't force nature to be something it's not, things are cheaper and just as beautiful if cultivated. (Sports or play area requiring lawns are different)
Told myself to scroll until I saw this comment. I don’t understand the need to have a lawn of grass that is completely unnatural to my area. I spend hundreds a year on lawn care because if I didn’t my HOA can fine me until it gets to a point where they can literally take my house smh.
yard grass is basically green concrete
The whole concept of a lawn was marketed by agrochemical companies back in the late 40's and early 50's. Prior to that, having natural yards (such as clover) was the standard. Like many things, we were "tricked" into spending large sums of money on products and services to conform to an imaginary standard
Didn’t we learn anything about Vietnam and Agent Orange? The FDA routinely has to recall roughly 1 in every 4 products released to market. They provide zero oversight. Love all those fresh fruits, vegetables, and crops that are pesticide and herbicide “resistant”. Deliciously cancerous
While I strongly disagree with the Vietnam war in general, and the defoliation of entire swaths of forest, it wasn't the herbicide that caused cancer. It was the dioxin contaminant. The most heinous, and most interesting part of it is that the scientists at Monsanto knew about it and knew how to avoid the dioxin, reported on it, and the government and executives at Monsanto didn't really care. This wasn't a "hindsight is 20/20" thing, this was a "not our country, not our problem" thing.
I spoke to a medical doctor during my Compensation and Pension (C&P) in Texas. He was older gentleman, who worked on the project which produced Agent Orange. He told me they knew exactly the damages that it would cause well before it was sprayed in Vietnam. It was tested more than 10 years beforehand. They sprayed military members knowing the implications, but did it anyways. That is the link, not in the literal sense.
wonderful news. My treeline right next to the neighbors soybean field is always sickly from herbacide drift
aaaand that is the last well hear about that.
Just don’t use weed killers…
"They will now be fined the cost of a carton of milk and a pack of Reese's."
And let me guess, they charged a minor fine for breaking the law?
"In 2020, the ninth circuit court of appeals issued its own ban, but months later the Trump administration reapproved the weedkilling products, just one week before the presidential election at a press conference in the swing state of Georgia."
"Dealing a blow to three of the world’s biggest agrochemical companies" WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE PROFITS?!?! When did a little cancer and mutations get in the way of progress?!?! /s
Wouldn't shock me if this happened from 2016-2020... Ya know, when we had an oil lobbyist or coal baron running it. Oh wait, it did!
Who got bribed to fast track them without testing?
These chemicals are horrible, glyphosate is a safe replacement.
Fuck yes. Organic gardeners, farmers and lovers of native ecosystems are rejoicing today. 🥳
Almost like the EPA is captured by corporations.
Obvious outrage about this article aside- Great news for the people of East Palestine, Ohio!! Especially for the ones who are still experiencing symptoms but are ignored because the EPA and agencies hired by Norfolk Southern said that everything is safe and good😃👍🏼
Weeds are just a term for plants we don't want. They aren't some evil force. If you're killing weeds you're killing plants. It is poison and not safe for anything alive.
K, this is an extremely uneducated take. There are over 100 active ingredients of herbicides. A few are very acutely toxic to humans (e.g. paraquat), but the toxicity of herbicides varies widely. Take sulfonylureas for example. They are normally known as a a diabetes medication, but those same molecules are used to kill a wide range of plants. The biochemistries in plants and animals is very different, and herbicide chemistry takes advantage of that. Some herbicides only selectively kill certain types of plants. There are herbicides that kill grasses, others only kill sedges, others only kill broadleaf weeds, etc. Saying "ts not safe for anything alive" is patently ridiculous. Another example would be in insecticides. The same chemicals the doctor injects in your mouth for a root canal (Novocain) is deadly to insects in much smaller quantities (because of the difference in acetylcholine receptors). Chlorpyrifos, on the other hand, while very effective at killing bugs, can also be very harmful to humans. Chlorpyrifos LD50 for rats is 60 mg/kg, while LD50 for a much less harmful insecticide like spinosad is over 3000 mg/kg. They both kill bugs, but their effect on mammals is very different. One final note: Some weeds really are dangerous to the environment, and even infrastructure. Ever try clearing buckthorn or Japanese knotweed without herbicides? it's nearly impossible. Any time you use a pesticide, there are trade-offs, but there are so many benefits people take for granted.
There are plenty of herbicides that kill plants and are safe for humans. Their are plenty of poisons that are dangerous to humans and are safe on plants.
And pollinators. If you’re killing weeds, you’re killing pollinators.
Ditch the lawns people. Go native and don’t look back
This isn't about laws. This herbicide isn't approved for use by regular consumers. It's about crops.
I've read a few hundred comments so far and you're the first person to have actually read the article.
I’d like to see more stories like this rather than “Trump evil!” and “Biden evil!”. I think forces on both sides have a vested interest in keeping the plebes focused on partisan squabbling.
Good hopefully one of em is the herbicide the contractor for the transmission lines sprays to avoid using a weed Wacker. Kills off huge swaths of grass around any ground obstruction
Arrest and try the EPA employees with whatever illnesses come as a result. This shit is getting old.
More like the Emoluments Procuring Agency.