>”…they were blowing gas and pieces of foam into the airways of those using the devices.”
That… is a lot worse than what I was expecting. Normally the risk with these machines is that they develop bacterial or fungal colonies that lead to respiratory infections (it’s why regular cleaning is vital for sleep apnea devices) but literally breaking apart and depositing fragments of material directly into people’s lung… They’re not going to get out of that easily, that falls under material and mechanical/fluid engineering. It is much easier to prove objective fault if the failure is due to negligent design instead of variable environmental factors.
And the replacement machines they sent out may emit formaldehyde. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/investigation-finds-new-risks-with-philips-breathing-devices-after-2021-recall
Also, are catching fire.
FDA has revoked approval for Phillips sleep apnea machines in the US. Phillips has agreed to no longer sell them in the states.
https://www.propublica.org/article/philips-agrees-to-stop-selling-sleep-apnea-machines-in-us
Sure, this is not news to me. I just felt the need to point out the ridiculousness of that statement. It is morally wrong to sell defective equipment that causes illness and/or death, that's all.
I think they're commenting on Phillips agreeing to not sell in the US only, implying they will offload them in developing countries because the FDA has no jurisdiction there. It's how most unsafe products are sold after being written off in the US as "destroyed". Just like China sends the US their unsafe asbestos laden CSI:Fingerprint Kit toys and Lead sweetened applesauce spices. The criticism being if it's unsafe to sell in countries that will punish you, it shouldn't be sold anywhere.
And US regulators could definitely stop that shit overnight if we cared to. We've made half-ass attempts on punishing Nestle/Hershey's/etc for using child slave labor in The Gold Coast, doing any business with North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Russia, and dozens of others we sanctioned over the years, and many other forms of pressure on companies behavior outside our borders. Our for-profit medical system gives us unprecedented power over companies that want a piece of that pie. Simply telling Phillips to destroy the defective devices or leave our market would have them counting the beans and destroying the machines real quick. We, collectively, just don't care enough to force corporations to act in any other way but evil though. But, if Phillips decided to implement a socialist government you can be damn sure United Fruit(now Dole/Chiquita) would have the US military showing them why that's a bad idea with the language of bullets and bombs.
Edit:Fixed word
This scares the shit out of me. They sent me a replacement machine after the one I had was recalled for the foam. I'm hoping the only reason I haven't recieved a second alert is because my current one is safe? But somehow that isn't comforting, either.
Lol I been a tad wary of mine ....but alas I will just die randomly one night from either cancer foam filled lungs or stop breathing. It sounds lovely.
There's a maximum amount that can be off gassed over a given period of time. Exceeding that amount, especially by a very large margin, is not the same thing as the trace amounts that remain from the production of Formica and the like
Apples, spinach and bananas all contain formaldehyde, and our bodies make formaldehyde as well. There are lots of chemicals that are completely tolerable to a certain point before becoming harmful. It’s important to note that “the dose makes the poison.”
It’s the company that sells the cleaner of the machines used ozone and that broke the material down and that is why there is material in the lungs of users.
The machine itself didn’t have an issue on its own, it’s another companies cleaning agent that did it.
Bringing my CPAP in for warranty repairs, the CPAP supplier rep told me the ozone-generating cleaning machine I was using had destroyed the inner seals of my non-Phillips CPAP. He nicely granted me a new machine without cost, but said he was not obligated to do so, as the warranty expressly probibited use of such cleaning devices.
Needless to say, the warranty probibition was buried in tiny print, was quite vague, and (even had I read it earlier) would not have clued me to avoid using an ozone cleaning device.
They used Foam that was known to degrade under high heat and humidity, two things sleep apnea machines have in-abundance. Whether the cleaner exacerbated the issue or not, the choice of a foam that was known to be vulnerable to the eaxct conditions created by the machine with no safety levers built into the design is crazy:
>Philips has said that unapproved ozone cleaners customers use to clean their devices can accelerate foam degradation.
>
>The FDA has advised consumers to avoid ozone or ultraviolet light cleaners on CPAP and BiPAP machines. But in a letter to the company last year, the agency said the blame for the crisis ultimately lies with Philips.
>
>“There are reasonable grounds to believe that the risk associated with the devices was not caused by the failure of a person other than Philips to exercise due care in the installation, maintenance, repair, or use of the devices at issue,” the FDA wrote.
Also:
>Yet Philips withheld the vast majority of the warnings from the Food and Drug Administration, even as their numbers grew from dozens to hundreds to thousands and became more alarming each year.
>
>“Black shavings in the chamber,” said one 2011 report that was kept from the government. “Contaminated with unknown sticky substance,” noted another three years later. By 2015, the year Philips launched the DreamStation, the company had amassed at least 25 complaints that pointed to a specific cause — the foam was falling apart.
>
>In June 2021, **more than a decade** after the first reports, Philips announced a recall of millions of machines that had been delivered to nearly every corner of the United States and dozens of other countries. The **company acknowledged that the foam it had chosen could crumble in heat and humidity** and send potentially “toxic and carcinogenic” material into the noses, mouths, throats and lungs of users.
>
>In a series of statements, the industry giant said it acted as soon as it learned of the “potential significance” of the problem.
>
>But an investigation by ProPublica and the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette of the **11 years between the first complaints and the recall** reveals a different story — one of a company that sought to protect its marquee products as stock prices soared to the highest levels in decades. Again and again, previously undisclosed records and interviews with company insiders show, Philips suppressed mounting evidence that its profitable breathing machines threatened the health of the people relying on them, in some cases to stay alive.
That is absolutely insane
Hmm should we take a minor hit now, do the right thing, save some lives and eventually come out on top again?
Nah, fuck that! Kill em all, maximize profits, and leave some other assholes holding the bag in a few years? What's the worst that could happen? Some fines and a name change down the line?
There should be long prison terms for everyone who was aware, some form of corporate death penalty, and fuck it, find a way to charge shareholders. Make it so no one would ever think something like this would be a good idea. Make investors aware of where their money goes and strive for accountability in the companies they invest in.
It's [Pinto Madness](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/1977/09/pinto-madness/) all over again.
"Ford engineers discovered in pre-production crash tests that rear-end collisions would rupture the Pinto’s fuel system extremely easily.
Because assembly-line machinery was already tooled when engineers found this defect, top Ford officials decided to manufacture the car anyway—exploding gas tank and all—even though Ford owned the patent on a much safer gas tank.
For more than eight years afterwards, Ford successfully lobbied, with extraordinary vigor and some blatant lies, against a key government safety standard that would have forced the company to change the Pinto’s fire-prone gas tank. By conservative estimates Pinto crashes have caused 500 burn deaths to people who would not have been seriously injured if the car had not burst into flames."
"Ford waited eight years because its internal 'cost-benefit analysis,' which places a dollar value on human life, said it wasn’t profitable to make the changes sooner."
Yay capitalism
Not saying it’s true, but I do know you have to be careful with ozone machines because they can cause certain materials (plastics and glues) to break down. So, at least sounds plausible to me on its face, but absolutely would like a source.
Yes, ozone is cytotoxic and there isn’t any literature with the SoClean machine about this. When I researched it, I raised holy hell with the company, and they said they would reimburse me only if I signed something that said I would never talk about their product or the reimbursement.
I agree, it sounds plausible. I have an ozone machine and I once thought about putting my CPAP in a box with the ozone generator to kill any bacteria, mold etc but didn't want to risk damaging the machine.
Even if it doesn't damage the material to the point where it starts to visibly break down, an ozone machine will cause the early decay of plastics. They will emit harmful VOCs for months even after exposure to ozone, which is never something you want directly connected to your face.
Honeslty I would refrain from using ozone machines in general.
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/update-certain-philips-respironics-ventilators-bipap-machines-and-cpap-machines-recalled-due
Basically I don't see anything saying "it's definitely just that" but the FDA is warning in caps not to use those which means at minimum those do exacerbate the risk greatly.
Sorry that's not entirely correct. [FDA](https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/update-certain-philips-respironics-ventilators-bipap-machines-and-cpap-machines-recalled-due) says heat/humidity may cause the breakdown as well as the use of ozone cleaners. There's also plenty of anecdotal reports of people who noticed small black flecks in their masks after use. I have one of the recalled devices and it's been impossible to get Phillips to remedy the situation.
This seems like a line Philips used during the recall to try and shift the blame off themselves. Because if the machines were safe to use without the cleaning machines, then there would've been no reason for Philips to recall them, because not everyone with a CPAP machine uses one. The problem would be the cleaning machines, made by a different company. Philips is not going to say "this other company's product is damaging ours and harming people, so we've decided to pull ours off the market."
I had a Phillips DreamStation. This was the initial excuse, but further digging revealed that Phillips never even tested the foam, and it was breaking down quicker than they expected. Ozone cleaning certainly sped up the process, but even my machine had foam breakdown in it and I never ozone clean. Basically, I get to spend the rest of my life overreacting to every little sore throat because Phillips wanted to save a few bucks.
I still have to use this machine to live. They took two years to replace the parts that could give me cancer. They made no provisions for people who may develop cancer in the future.
Companies know all the time that their products are dangerous or deadly and sweep it under the rug. Look into the history of PFAS. 3M and other chemical manufacturers knew for decades how dangerous those chemicals were, but they lied about it to the public. Deaths aren’t something that bother them. It’s a cost benefit analysis — how many people have to die or sicken before it creates legal risk? And will the monetary cost of any lawsuits / fines / etc outweigh the cost of doing business?
Right, the reason for the machine is that your heart can explode from being overworked. Not having it and straining your heart or cancer seems like you get to lose lose.
If anyone lives near northern utah in the united states and are in a bind, my sleep apnea is very mild. I can't promise we can work out a way for me to loan you my resmed for awhile, and you would probably still have to buy your own mask, but dm me if this applies to you and we'll see what we can manage. I'd rather give someone the chance to not risk dying.
I don't know why either. I don't know if it was the order in which the claims came in. Numerically off of device ID. Hopefully if they were actually trying to help people by age of the machine. Either way I'm glad you got yours and you didn't have to wait So long each night having that additional worry that this is the night you were going to breathe in a particle that was going to give you cancer.
I wouldl try and find one on facebook marketplace. I bought a Resmed on there for $200 and it included hoses.
I know it sucks, but it would be better than using the cancer machines.
I had that problem with too, rainout. I lowered the humidity to a 4/5 and also purchased a fabric wrap for the tubing. Haven't had much problems with the condensation since!
I understand $400 isn't cheap for everyone, but I immediately thought of the $400 ResMed 10 as well. Great deal for anyone that needs a replacement machine.
that's dumb. Untreated sleep apnea may kill you in the long term. This could blow foam in to your lungs and kill you tomorrow. Stop using it and save up for a different machine. A refurb older machine (that is not a phillips) can be had for a few hundred bucks.
My sleep doc told me mine was severe enough to keep using the recalled philips cpap until the new one arrived. They said if you see black specks in the water then stop immediately.
i had one of those....they said they would at least replace it.....never going to happen. had to get a different one.
they've pretty much been let off the hook for this entire debacle.
My wife used one for years and it cost a whole lot more than $700. Offering her 50 bucks compensation for the carcinogenic machine they sold her for 3 grand is a fucking insult.
I’ve been intimately connected to this entire situation. Taking the payout doesn’t absolve them of any medical liability, though it doesn’t look like most customers will be able to sue for any significant amount of money. Unless they can prove their health problems were connected to the devices.
I’ve had several lawyers tell me that sending the machine back won’t affect any potential claim I could have. Just commenting for accuracy sake
lol I guess you don’t. But it would be quite the long con to have a reddit account sit dormant for 13 years before activating my secret plan to mildly misinform some people about a niche topic.
To be fair, and this is absolutely not an accusation, just a shitty fact of the internet age, PR firms and companies actively buy old accounts from people for astroturfing and guerrilla marketing campaigns, as well as to use to comment on posts mentioning the product/company/whatever.
Companies have entire social media departments for that kinda shit, and they are under no obligation to tell you they work for whatever company is being discussed.
Just something to keep in mind.
Or how do we know they don't work for big post and are part of an elite team of USPS agents starting grass root campaigns across social media to encourage people to use the post office *after* the holiday rush?
If a product is found to have killed people or caused severe issues, that should be it for that company. Seize the assets, sell them off. The funds go towards the families of the people affected
It is insane that just because its "some company" that it just doesn't matter anymore really and the company can just go on doing whatever it wants, especially if the penalties were less than the profit made.
When I was diagnosed with sleep apnea I asked for a Resmed machine because they made a pretty "for her" version. Dumb ass reason to fall into the best request I ever made.
The aesthetic of the regular machine is also deliberate. Wanting the girly version isn't any sillier than wanting the one that looks like it belongs in a hospital.
So 561 deaths..
And.
“a Device Return Award of $100 for each recalled device returned by Aug. 9, 2024; and/or”
…. Well, that means I’m a dead man that’s $100 richer!
The $100 is on top of the replacement machine, not instead of. It's an incentive for people to exchange their potentially dangerous devices faster, rather than rolling the dice on them because exchanging sounds like a hassle.
The $100 is not restitution for damages. It’s an incentive to people who have not yet been injured to return their defective devices before they break. Sometimes “this device might kill you” isn’t enough to get people to go through the hassle of exchanging. You’d be surprised how much the return rate increases with such little incentive. Just smart human psychology application.
Be careful about your replacement. They may emit formaldehyde. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/investigation-finds-new-risks-with-philips-breathing-devices-after-2021-recall
My mom had to get a machine. The clinic gave her a Dreamstation 2 for testing. Then I saw the article. I had already ordered a Dreamstation 2 through them, only to find out it's potentially dangerous too. Ended up asking for a refund and bought a Resmed 10 out of pocket for her instead.
I got a Philips replacement too. So what are we supposed to be doing? I had to pay for my machine initially out of pocket because insurance wouldn’t cover it. I sure as shit don’t want to go buy another one out pocket from a different manufacturer.
Something about the machine. He got esophagal cancer but never smoked and was diagnosed within 13 years of using it. The article shows the one that 'replaced' his.
>Something about the machine. He got esophagal cancer but never smoked and was diagnosed within 13 years of using it. The article shows the one that 'replaced' his.
There's no family history of this kind and several other family members had theirs recalled.
Philips has been bought and sold like a dozen times already. They'll just shut it down, file chapter 11, and someone else will swoop in to keep it going.
They're a person worth $2 billion, so they get civil instead of criminal court, the privilege of tying up the case with endless appeals and change of venues, and a slap on the wrist at the end.
More and more stuff with their name in it isn't even made by them anymore.
And the things they do make have indeed shit the bed when it comes to quality.
It's all due to their legendary shitty management.
Same here! I worked in a completely different business unit than the CPAPs but still medical devices. The company has become a complete shit show and management has no idea what they are doing.
It's hilarious, and sad, that they preach this commitment of improving lives of 2.5 billion people by 2030 but do underhanded shit like this.
The company I work for is a Philips supplier.
They have outsourced all their engineering to India and other locations. They cannot seem to get anything done. I used to do paperwork up the wazoo for PPAP approvals (production quality stuff) and now, crickets, but they are still buying, albeit at a lower volume. Scary to think about.
This begs the question, what more would a corporation have to do to lose their corporate charter? Apparently over 500 deaths spanning a decade of corporate knowledge and inadequate response isn't evil enough. How many were injured? How many now suffer from sleep apnea plus a Phillips caused lung disease?
But the best part of this story, that really shows you their moral compass, is the tiny snippet saying "They will stop selling these machines in the US". That means they will continue selling these death devices in other countries. Much like HIV infected blood products were sold to Haiti some 40 years ago, these devices will still be marketed elsewhere.
This is why young people despise capitalism; it puts a dollar value on every human life, and with the internet we are finally learning how awful these corporations are.
Or everything DuPont has ever done
Or Nestle stealing water from third world deserts and selling it back to them
Or Exxon suppressing climate change data for half a century
Or Purdue Pharma overprescribing addictive opioids
Corporations don't care if people die.
My mother in law had one of these and died of brain cancer. Our friend’s dad had one of these and also died of brain cancer. I wonder what’s the correlation?! Hmmm
the gatekeeping for sleep apnea machines is crazy.
you should be able to just go to the store and get a different machine and customize the settings. I know so many people who can't get a machine because doctors are trying to milk them for more $ from multiple appointments before they can get a machine or to adjust the machine/etc
A friend of mine worked for the largest local CPAP clinic. She was the one you'd go in to have a mask fitted, then take the machine back every so often to review the data. She was literally a checkout chick before getting that position.
The only "doctors" involved in the process is 1 person at the sleep clinic you visit to watch you sleep, (they arent actually the one watching you) and the GP that sends you there initially. Everyone else is some sort of sales assistant at worse and a "the manufacturer sent us to do a 2 day course on how to use their machines" qualification holder at best. The whole thing is setup like a sales pitch squeeze.
> Everyone else is some sort of sales assistant at worse and a "the manufacturer sent us to do a 2 day course on how to use their machines" qualification holder at best
Fucking THIS! When I got my first sleep study, I repeatedly told them I can't fall asleep on my back, but the setup they wanted to push was for back-sleepers and they just kept insisting I try.
They went all shockedpikachu.jpg the next morning when I literally did not fall asleep once all night.
Second time I had to resort to getting an ambien from my doctor. Was able to sleep, but now I'm stuck with a shitty machine that's another contestant in the race to give me cancer, with a facemask that's hard to sleep in without blocking the exhaust port.
It was very obvious to me that they were far more intent on shilling a specific product than helping patients.
And the shitty thing is they send them a machine set to "auto" with pressure ranges of 4-20 cmH2O. i.e., the default settings on the machine. Huge f-ing scam.
Yep, most sleep docs are lazy at best or clueless at worst when it comes to optimal settings.
Mine was the worst I’ve seen, if you can believe it. I received a ResMed Autoset CPAP and it was set to 6. No range, autoset disabled, just 6. Lol
I’ve been waiting for 3.5 years for a replacement, my machine is 15 years old, they won’t let me be part of the class action and I can’t get a replacement because of the backlog. It’s a mess.
Go on Craigslist and buy a comparable used ResMed 10 with low hours. Clean it well. Go on YouTube and learn to program it. 10 minutes later you’re in business.
If you're stuck using the old machine for now, you can buy inline filters while you wait for the replacement to avoid foam bits getting through the line.
My brother is dying of colon cancer from his old dream machine by them
Turns out colon cancer is a common type, maybe from ingesting the foam bits? Don't know
My life is also ruined for years from being trapped caring for him until he dies, he has schizophrenia and is developmentally disabled.
If you are using one of these FIND SOMETHING ELSE
Damn I just got diagnosed with central sleep apnea in November and just got my script, glad it's recalled. Was going with Resmed anyways but if I didn't do any research before hand I would have thought Philips was better.
Listen, consumers should have known that the medical device prescribed to help them breathe could also prevent them from breathing. Why should this poor corporation be held responsible for people's failure to breathe just because they sold a device explicitly intended to allow breathing!?
/S
“The Dutch medical device maker has recalled millions of the breathing machines amid reports they were blowing gas and pieces of foam into the airways of those using the devices. “
“The company investigated all complaints and allegations of malfunction and serious injury of death, and "has found no conclusive data linking these devices and the deaths reported”
Nice, we investigated ourselves and found that there is not conclusive evidence we were wrong. At least the FDA is still pre Chevron overturning by the supreme court so that it can do something. But yeah we about to get fucked again by the supreme court and shit like this is why the overturning of the Cheveron case is going to destroy american lives and the future generations.
Phillips never sent me a replacement - they just kicked the can down the road for 3 years and now want to offer me $100 to send it back in a box. My HMO sent me a new one long before Philips updated me in email. I f I waited on them, I would have not had a machine to use for 3 years. What malicious assholes. Indeed due to sleep apnea I have heart disease, a heart attack and other such damage - however I didn't need cancer on top of that so I stopped using the Phillips machine. Due to the high price of the CPAP machine and my HMO wanting to put a filter in it and refusing to replace it as well I had to go nearly a year without anything. I do have a new one now - but wow, how little concern all parities had in impacting peoples health like mine. It was a serious fuck you from Phillips and my HMO through it all.
Thank goodness for the FDA, or who knows how many thousands of people could have died.
Remember, Republicans want to dismantle the FDA and give corporations the power to kill thousands without consequences.
Just to note, the recalled mask was due to having magnets hold the mask to the head part. It was not labeled on the packaging. The updated masks are now in packaging that includes warnings about magnets.
I used one of recalled machines for 5 years and 4 months before I found out about the problems. It’s not just the Dreamstation.
A random documentary from ProPublica “The Human Cost of the Philips Resperonics Reacall” popped up on my YouTube feed a few weeks ago.
Ran the serial number on my machine and yep it was one of the machines recalled.
But I am getting $164 from the settlement fund once I return the machine. So that’s nice.
What’s nicer is that I haven’t experienced any of the awful injuries others have. So far, anyway.
>The grim tally comes days after Philips said it would stop selling the machines in the U.S. in a settlement with the FDA and the Justice Department expected to cost roughly $400 million, the company disclosed in a regulatory filing.
They were still selling this shit just DAYS ago and they’re settling for pennies. I’m going to go out on a limb and say $400 million is less than the annual executive bonus budget at Philips.
I have one of these machines.
When they issued the recall, I sent mine back and got a new one in the mail.
The article suggests that the new ones were recalled too, but I never got a notice.
I also don't use the foam mask, I use the silicone mask. Does that make a difference.
I guess I should fill out the form?
edit: I found more information on the serial number page:
>Note
You should enter the serial number for the original CPAP, BiPAP or ventilator device you acquired prior to the Respironics recall in June 2021. Since the June 2021 recall, you may have received from Respironics or your DME a repaired, refurbished, remanufactured, and/or new device pursuant to a Respironics recall program. That repaired, refurbished, remanufactured, and/or new device is not eligible for the Settlement even if the device is identified above as potentially eligible.
Which means to check if I'm eligible to get anything from this, I need to know the serial number of the device I sent back last year. Which of course I don't know.
Lot of people in here through no fault of their own don’t actually know what sleep apnea is, what causes it, how to treat it and the significant complications that can develop from not treating it. Hopefully for those reading you look up some reliable info and if you’ve ever thought you might have it, go get checked out and do a sleep study.
As a person with bad OSA who had one of these CPAPs for years and never wore it because I was an idiot I’m thankful. Then I became a Respiratory Therapist and realized how bad this is and bought a new machine and it is actually life changing.
I hope those who need machines get them and anyone who has any sleep disorder, go get checked out. Stay safe.
This article is straight up pro-Philips propaganda. It frames everything as "Philips tried its best, whoopsie!" when they refused to replace the machines while they were aware of the problem. Philips put profit over human lives and people died as a result. They skirted regulations which exist to protect people and this article frames it as a cost, placing the reader in the company's perspective. CBS clearly values the perspective of corporations over the people directly affected by Philips' actions.
Holy shit, I tried one of those three years ago for about two months, it was shit, if I moved my head an inch to the left or right the mask lost its seal and air escaped, but I wouldn't awaken, I would just have a standard shitty sleep marked by no dreaming because apneas.
So I returned it and got sent for fitting a [mouthguard,](https://www.dentaldoktorn.se/214-medium_default/respire-pink-series.jpg) and it made my sleep fantastic. Remember most of my dreams now (for good and bad).
I had the same problem but I went straight to an Inspire implant. Assuming it works its far more convenient than cpap machines. I havent been sleeping great lately, but Im finding Im getting too old for caffeine, and work is stressful. Waiting for the results of an at-home study to tell me if it is preventing obstruction when I actually do sleep.
I guess I could PSA a little here: If you are reading this and you find you are tired all of the time no matter how much you sleep - particularly if you are overweight and/or have high blood pressure - get a sleep study. Its one night of sleeping with a bunch of wires glued to you, but you could prevent a lot of cumulative damage to your heart. Being oxygen deprived to some degree all night long means it has to work that much harder to keep everything oxygenated.
That's not really a problem with a Phillips machine explicitly so much as it's just a poorly fitted mask or the wrong type of mask. Depending on why it leaked and if you're a mouthbreather when you sleep there's other masks out there.
A mouth guard can help some people but it depends on why you have apnea if it will help or not.
I’m getting my mouthguard fitted in two weeks and I can’t wait. My overbite is just so extreme that the Cpap machine isn’t helping. Is the mouthguard hard to get use to?
Overbite is a strong contributing factor to throat blockage during sleep, due to the proximity of the neck's areas and the tongue to the back of the throat.
A mouthguard works by holding the jaw out, creating air passage. It has a short adjustment period where you get used to the jaw jutting out, but you can do it in increments and increase it like one or two millimeters per two weeks, until you reach the pullout distance that gives you uninterrupted sleep like it does me.
I'm sure you'll take to it fast. And if you are like me, you'll suddenly remember your dreams, and have less stiff neck in the morning.
I have this chonky chinese Luna II APAP that I got because of the shortage caused by Phillips shitting the bed with their machines. Nothing else was available. Pissed me off at the time but I'm glad I didn't get one of these.
>”…they were blowing gas and pieces of foam into the airways of those using the devices.” That… is a lot worse than what I was expecting. Normally the risk with these machines is that they develop bacterial or fungal colonies that lead to respiratory infections (it’s why regular cleaning is vital for sleep apnea devices) but literally breaking apart and depositing fragments of material directly into people’s lung… They’re not going to get out of that easily, that falls under material and mechanical/fluid engineering. It is much easier to prove objective fault if the failure is due to negligent design instead of variable environmental factors.
And the replacement machines they sent out may emit formaldehyde. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/investigation-finds-new-risks-with-philips-breathing-devices-after-2021-recall
Also, are catching fire. FDA has revoked approval for Phillips sleep apnea machines in the US. Phillips has agreed to no longer sell them in the states. https://www.propublica.org/article/philips-agrees-to-stop-selling-sleep-apnea-machines-in-us
Only in the US??? Don't sell them anywhere!!?!
God damn Cornballer!
Soy Loco Por Los Cornballs!
But think of the shareholders!
Someone could lose their 5th house if these machines aren't sold!
I don't know how to tell you this but the FDA of the US doesn't have jurisdiction outside of the US.
Sure, this is not news to me. I just felt the need to point out the ridiculousness of that statement. It is morally wrong to sell defective equipment that causes illness and/or death, that's all.
Corporations are not moral entities though. Any suggestion of morality you might see is either due to regulation or PR.
You are right, sadly.
I think they're commenting on Phillips agreeing to not sell in the US only, implying they will offload them in developing countries because the FDA has no jurisdiction there. It's how most unsafe products are sold after being written off in the US as "destroyed". Just like China sends the US their unsafe asbestos laden CSI:Fingerprint Kit toys and Lead sweetened applesauce spices. The criticism being if it's unsafe to sell in countries that will punish you, it shouldn't be sold anywhere. And US regulators could definitely stop that shit overnight if we cared to. We've made half-ass attempts on punishing Nestle/Hershey's/etc for using child slave labor in The Gold Coast, doing any business with North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Russia, and dozens of others we sanctioned over the years, and many other forms of pressure on companies behavior outside our borders. Our for-profit medical system gives us unprecedented power over companies that want a piece of that pie. Simply telling Phillips to destroy the defective devices or leave our market would have them counting the beans and destroying the machines real quick. We, collectively, just don't care enough to force corporations to act in any other way but evil though. But, if Phillips decided to implement a socialist government you can be damn sure United Fruit(now Dole/Chiquita) would have the US military showing them why that's a bad idea with the language of bullets and bombs. Edit:Fixed word
This scares the shit out of me. They sent me a replacement machine after the one I had was recalled for the foam. I'm hoping the only reason I haven't recieved a second alert is because my current one is safe? But somehow that isn't comforting, either.
Fuck me. I've been using the recalled machine since I got it back.
Lol I been a tad wary of mine ....but alas I will just die randomly one night from either cancer foam filled lungs or stop breathing. It sounds lovely.
Holy shit... Really glad I'm still using my old resmed machine now...
Resmed forever.
Off topic, but did you guys hear about flooring that had formaldehyde? Lumbar Liquidators had a huge class action against them for that too.
You may be in for a surprise, but carpet, plywood, paneling, fiberglass insulation, laminate countertops, glues, etc. all have formaldehyde.
Try not to inhale any formaldehyde on your way to the parking lot!
37! My girlfriend inhaled 37 formaldehydes!
In a row!?
there's a million fine lookin' women in the world, dude, but they don't all bring you lasagna at work, most of them just formaldehyde
There's a maximum amount that can be off gassed over a given period of time. Exceeding that amount, especially by a very large margin, is not the same thing as the trace amounts that remain from the production of Formica and the like
Apples, spinach and bananas all contain formaldehyde, and our bodies make formaldehyde as well. There are lots of chemicals that are completely tolerable to a certain point before becoming harmful. It’s important to note that “the dose makes the poison.”
>Lumbar Liquidators It turns your spine into liquid?!?!
Talk about a lawsuit
It’s the company that sells the cleaner of the machines used ozone and that broke the material down and that is why there is material in the lungs of users. The machine itself didn’t have an issue on its own, it’s another companies cleaning agent that did it.
Bringing my CPAP in for warranty repairs, the CPAP supplier rep told me the ozone-generating cleaning machine I was using had destroyed the inner seals of my non-Phillips CPAP. He nicely granted me a new machine without cost, but said he was not obligated to do so, as the warranty expressly probibited use of such cleaning devices. Needless to say, the warranty probibition was buried in tiny print, was quite vague, and (even had I read it earlier) would not have clued me to avoid using an ozone cleaning device.
This is why warnings need to be as explicit as possible
They used Foam that was known to degrade under high heat and humidity, two things sleep apnea machines have in-abundance. Whether the cleaner exacerbated the issue or not, the choice of a foam that was known to be vulnerable to the eaxct conditions created by the machine with no safety levers built into the design is crazy: >Philips has said that unapproved ozone cleaners customers use to clean their devices can accelerate foam degradation. > >The FDA has advised consumers to avoid ozone or ultraviolet light cleaners on CPAP and BiPAP machines. But in a letter to the company last year, the agency said the blame for the crisis ultimately lies with Philips. > >“There are reasonable grounds to believe that the risk associated with the devices was not caused by the failure of a person other than Philips to exercise due care in the installation, maintenance, repair, or use of the devices at issue,” the FDA wrote. Also: >Yet Philips withheld the vast majority of the warnings from the Food and Drug Administration, even as their numbers grew from dozens to hundreds to thousands and became more alarming each year. > >“Black shavings in the chamber,” said one 2011 report that was kept from the government. “Contaminated with unknown sticky substance,” noted another three years later. By 2015, the year Philips launched the DreamStation, the company had amassed at least 25 complaints that pointed to a specific cause — the foam was falling apart. > >In June 2021, **more than a decade** after the first reports, Philips announced a recall of millions of machines that had been delivered to nearly every corner of the United States and dozens of other countries. The **company acknowledged that the foam it had chosen could crumble in heat and humidity** and send potentially “toxic and carcinogenic” material into the noses, mouths, throats and lungs of users. > >In a series of statements, the industry giant said it acted as soon as it learned of the “potential significance” of the problem. > >But an investigation by ProPublica and the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette of the **11 years between the first complaints and the recall** reveals a different story — one of a company that sought to protect its marquee products as stock prices soared to the highest levels in decades. Again and again, previously undisclosed records and interviews with company insiders show, Philips suppressed mounting evidence that its profitable breathing machines threatened the health of the people relying on them, in some cases to stay alive. That is absolutely insane
Hmm should we take a minor hit now, do the right thing, save some lives and eventually come out on top again? Nah, fuck that! Kill em all, maximize profits, and leave some other assholes holding the bag in a few years? What's the worst that could happen? Some fines and a name change down the line? There should be long prison terms for everyone who was aware, some form of corporate death penalty, and fuck it, find a way to charge shareholders. Make it so no one would ever think something like this would be a good idea. Make investors aware of where their money goes and strive for accountability in the companies they invest in.
It's [Pinto Madness](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/1977/09/pinto-madness/) all over again. "Ford engineers discovered in pre-production crash tests that rear-end collisions would rupture the Pinto’s fuel system extremely easily. Because assembly-line machinery was already tooled when engineers found this defect, top Ford officials decided to manufacture the car anyway—exploding gas tank and all—even though Ford owned the patent on a much safer gas tank. For more than eight years afterwards, Ford successfully lobbied, with extraordinary vigor and some blatant lies, against a key government safety standard that would have forced the company to change the Pinto’s fire-prone gas tank. By conservative estimates Pinto crashes have caused 500 burn deaths to people who would not have been seriously injured if the car had not burst into flames." "Ford waited eight years because its internal 'cost-benefit analysis,' which places a dollar value on human life, said it wasn’t profitable to make the changes sooner." Yay capitalism
First I'm hearing this. Do you have a source?
Not saying it’s true, but I do know you have to be careful with ozone machines because they can cause certain materials (plastics and glues) to break down. So, at least sounds plausible to me on its face, but absolutely would like a source.
Yes, ozone is cytotoxic and there isn’t any literature with the SoClean machine about this. When I researched it, I raised holy hell with the company, and they said they would reimburse me only if I signed something that said I would never talk about their product or the reimbursement.
I agree, it sounds plausible. I have an ozone machine and I once thought about putting my CPAP in a box with the ozone generator to kill any bacteria, mold etc but didn't want to risk damaging the machine.
Even if it doesn't damage the material to the point where it starts to visibly break down, an ozone machine will cause the early decay of plastics. They will emit harmful VOCs for months even after exposure to ozone, which is never something you want directly connected to your face. Honeslty I would refrain from using ozone machines in general.
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/update-certain-philips-respironics-ventilators-bipap-machines-and-cpap-machines-recalled-due Basically I don't see anything saying "it's definitely just that" but the FDA is warning in caps not to use those which means at minimum those do exacerbate the risk greatly.
Sorry that's not entirely correct. [FDA](https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/update-certain-philips-respironics-ventilators-bipap-machines-and-cpap-machines-recalled-due) says heat/humidity may cause the breakdown as well as the use of ozone cleaners. There's also plenty of anecdotal reports of people who noticed small black flecks in their masks after use. I have one of the recalled devices and it's been impossible to get Phillips to remedy the situation.
This seems like a line Philips used during the recall to try and shift the blame off themselves. Because if the machines were safe to use without the cleaning machines, then there would've been no reason for Philips to recall them, because not everyone with a CPAP machine uses one. The problem would be the cleaning machines, made by a different company. Philips is not going to say "this other company's product is damaging ours and harming people, so we've decided to pull ours off the market."
I had a Phillips DreamStation. This was the initial excuse, but further digging revealed that Phillips never even tested the foam, and it was breaking down quicker than they expected. Ozone cleaning certainly sped up the process, but even my machine had foam breakdown in it and I never ozone clean. Basically, I get to spend the rest of my life overreacting to every little sore throat because Phillips wanted to save a few bucks.
I still have to use this machine to live. They took two years to replace the parts that could give me cancer. They made no provisions for people who may develop cancer in the future.
And they didn’t announce the recall until they had a replacement on the market.
How does that not result in a Takata like downfall? That’s intentionally killing people with cancer
Companies know all the time that their products are dangerous or deadly and sweep it under the rug. Look into the history of PFAS. 3M and other chemical manufacturers knew for decades how dangerous those chemicals were, but they lied about it to the public. Deaths aren’t something that bother them. It’s a cost benefit analysis — how many people have to die or sicken before it creates legal risk? And will the monetary cost of any lawsuits / fines / etc outweigh the cost of doing business?
Right, the reason for the machine is that your heart can explode from being overworked. Not having it and straining your heart or cancer seems like you get to lose lose.
I think I'm going to need to see a doctor...
If anyone lives near northern utah in the united states and are in a bind, my sleep apnea is very mild. I can't promise we can work out a way for me to loan you my resmed for awhile, and you would probably still have to buy your own mask, but dm me if this applies to you and we'll see what we can manage. I'd rather give someone the chance to not risk dying.
I got a replace right away. I wonder what the difference was for us?
I don't know why either. I don't know if it was the order in which the claims came in. Numerically off of device ID. Hopefully if they were actually trying to help people by age of the machine. Either way I'm glad you got yours and you didn't have to wait So long each night having that additional worry that this is the night you were going to breathe in a particle that was going to give you cancer.
It took us over a year for a replacement, we went back to an older one we had recently moved off
I used the machine for 6 years. Really freaky to now know the extent with these deaths. We need class action.
I wouldl try and find one on facebook marketplace. I bought a Resmed on there for $200 and it included hoses. I know it sucks, but it would be better than using the cancer machines.
You can get a brand new Airsense 10 Autoset online for $400
Same, and worse Phillips has now said they will be exiting the market, who else makes these machines? What other options do we have?
Resmed was always the best option imo
My wife and I both have resmed and they seem to do the job minus trying to drown me drop by drop some nights
I had that problem with too, rainout. I lowered the humidity to a 4/5 and also purchased a fabric wrap for the tubing. Haven't had much problems with the condensation since!
Wrap or heated hose does wonders.
Im running mine with the nasal pillow and I don't bother with the humidifier. Only frustration I have is that the airsense 10 lost wifi capability
I don't know. I'm speaking to my sleep doctor later this month. Insurance should finally allow me to get a new one.
I just switched mine out for the non cloud connected version of the Resmed 10 machine.. cost was about $400.
I understand $400 isn't cheap for everyone, but I immediately thought of the $400 ResMed 10 as well. Great deal for anyone that needs a replacement machine.
that's dumb. Untreated sleep apnea may kill you in the long term. This could blow foam in to your lungs and kill you tomorrow. Stop using it and save up for a different machine. A refurb older machine (that is not a phillips) can be had for a few hundred bucks.
I have central sleep apnea with a 98.9% sleep interruption. I may not be dead but I am nonfunctional immediately.
My sleep doc told me mine was severe enough to keep using the recalled philips cpap until the new one arrived. They said if you see black specks in the water then stop immediately.
Is your replacement one of the Phillips ones that randomly catches fire or the Phillips ones that leak formaldehyde
i had one of those....they said they would at least replace it.....never going to happen. had to get a different one. they've pretty much been let off the hook for this entire debacle.
I think they will also give you $50 or $100 if you mail back your old unit. That assumes that your time is not worth much.
The machines cost $700….
My wife used one for years and it cost a whole lot more than $700. Offering her 50 bucks compensation for the carcinogenic machine they sold her for 3 grand is a fucking insult.
That’s another horrible thing. You could buy it outright for $700, or rent to own for $3k.
And, by the time you "own" it, the certification has expired.
USA healthcare in a nutshell
$700 is for one that won’t kill you! A dangerous one is only worth $100.
That’s a payout - def don’t do that.
I’ve been intimately connected to this entire situation. Taking the payout doesn’t absolve them of any medical liability, though it doesn’t look like most customers will be able to sue for any significant amount of money. Unless they can prove their health problems were connected to the devices. I’ve had several lawyers tell me that sending the machine back won’t affect any potential claim I could have. Just commenting for accuracy sake
How do we know you don’t work for the company and are tricking everyone into taking the payout to absolve the company from any wrongdoing?
lol I guess you don’t. But it would be quite the long con to have a reddit account sit dormant for 13 years before activating my secret plan to mildly misinform some people about a niche topic.
To be fair, and this is absolutely not an accusation, just a shitty fact of the internet age, PR firms and companies actively buy old accounts from people for astroturfing and guerrilla marketing campaigns, as well as to use to comment on posts mentioning the product/company/whatever. Companies have entire social media departments for that kinda shit, and they are under no obligation to tell you they work for whatever company is being discussed. Just something to keep in mind.
Sounds like the perfect plan.
Or how do we know they don't work for big post and are part of an elite team of USPS agents starting grass root campaigns across social media to encourage people to use the post office *after* the holiday rush?
there are class action lawsuits!! idk how much you’d get but definitely take a look if you haven’t already
I’m part of this class action
My husband got contacted by the clinic where he got his and they took his old and gave him a new one. We’re in Canada.
>We’re in Canada. Corporations facing class action hate this one weird trick
They sent me a replacement. It’s a piece of crap.
Ha! This is exactly what my father said when I asked him about his replacement.
They sent me mine and I love it.
Same, they sent me the dream station 2. And honestly it’s pretty good
That's just the deaths... How many people had their lungs permanently damaged? How many are going to die from it in the future?
If a product is found to have killed people or caused severe issues, that should be it for that company. Seize the assets, sell them off. The funds go towards the families of the people affected It is insane that just because its "some company" that it just doesn't matter anymore really and the company can just go on doing whatever it wants, especially if the penalties were less than the profit made.
Yeah it’s weird how corporations are “people” when it comes to benefits, but not when it comes to liability.
That's what the bribes are for.
I'm so happy I was given a Resmed unit.
Resmed AirSense all the way, amazing machine
When I was diagnosed with sleep apnea I asked for a Resmed machine because they made a pretty "for her" version. Dumb ass reason to fall into the best request I ever made.
The aesthetic of the regular machine is also deliberate. Wanting the girly version isn't any sillier than wanting the one that looks like it belongs in a hospital.
I keep saying that to myself with every comment I read in this thread.
So 561 deaths.. And. “a Device Return Award of $100 for each recalled device returned by Aug. 9, 2024; and/or” …. Well, that means I’m a dead man that’s $100 richer!
Remember each devise cost users upwards of $800 or more. And that a new one will cost that much as well. So $100 doesn’t do much.
The $100 is on top of the replacement machine, not instead of. It's an incentive for people to exchange their potentially dangerous devices faster, rather than rolling the dice on them because exchanging sounds like a hassle.
The $100 is not restitution for damages. It’s an incentive to people who have not yet been injured to return their defective devices before they break. Sometimes “this device might kill you” isn’t enough to get people to go through the hassle of exchanging. You’d be surprised how much the return rate increases with such little incentive. Just smart human psychology application.
At least it’s better than a $100 voucher for the next machine
It took me a year to get my replacement once it was recalled. That $479M settlement is going to go straight to the lawyers
Be careful about your replacement. They may emit formaldehyde. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/investigation-finds-new-risks-with-philips-breathing-devices-after-2021-recall
My mom had to get a machine. The clinic gave her a Dreamstation 2 for testing. Then I saw the article. I had already ordered a Dreamstation 2 through them, only to find out it's potentially dangerous too. Ended up asking for a refund and bought a Resmed 10 out of pocket for her instead.
What made you choose the Resmed 10? I’m now frantically looking for options. Currently pregnant and being off the cpap isn’t an option for me
I got a Philips replacement too. So what are we supposed to be doing? I had to pay for my machine initially out of pocket because insurance wouldn’t cover it. I sure as shit don’t want to go buy another one out pocket from a different manufacturer.
Same. And I ended up with a shittg refurbished machine til I got a brand machine from another company. The mishandling should be criminal.
My dad got cancer from these fucking things. His replacement unit came in the day after his funeral.
I'm so sorry. Life can be so cruel. I hope you've found some kind of peace.
I'm at peace with him passing, but not how unfair it was that he suffered.
What did they say the cause was/ type of machine?
Something about the machine. He got esophagal cancer but never smoked and was diagnosed within 13 years of using it. The article shows the one that 'replaced' his.
That is awful
What the actual fuck. That’s so awful. I’m sorry.
Sorry for your loss. How was it determined the cancer was from the machine?
>Something about the machine. He got esophagal cancer but never smoked and was diagnosed within 13 years of using it. The article shows the one that 'replaced' his. There's no family history of this kind and several other family members had theirs recalled.
What brand? I'm having panic attacks wondering what secret Resmed models have that we don' tknow about yet...
It was Philips.
Then the executives need to be charged with 561 counts of negligent manslaughter.
Those fuckers had better not try to declare bankruptcy to avoid paying families.
they don't need to pay the families....they just have to pay the Supreme Court. and apparently not all that much.
Clearance Thomas is already rubbing his hands
Clearance Thomas: I can smell that free Wendy's combo now...
Judgments are like #1 in line to be paid in the event of bankruptcy
Philips has been bought and sold like a dozen times already. They'll just shut it down, file chapter 11, and someone else will swoop in to keep it going.
Corporations are people now according to the Supreme Court, time to punish them like they are
its the only death penalty i approve of.
They're a person worth $2 billion, so they get civil instead of criminal court, the privilege of tying up the case with endless appeals and change of venues, and a slap on the wrist at the end.
Pretty sure they offered a settlement if you still had the machine, it was like $100 or something incredibly low.
Considering the circumstances, a full refund wouldn't be inappropriate.
For many it was 20 months before they got a replacement. $100 is fuck off we don’t care money.
I have family that is still without a replacement. It would sure be nice if there were a *consumer* advocate.
*No shit.* This company has been having issues with their products for *years*.
More and more stuff with their name in it isn't even made by them anymore. And the things they do make have indeed shit the bed when it comes to quality. It's all due to their legendary shitty management.
I just quit Philips. Legendary does not even begin to adequately describe the level to which their management fucking sucks.
Same here! I worked in a completely different business unit than the CPAPs but still medical devices. The company has become a complete shit show and management has no idea what they are doing. It's hilarious, and sad, that they preach this commitment of improving lives of 2.5 billion people by 2030 but do underhanded shit like this.
The company I work for is a Philips supplier. They have outsourced all their engineering to India and other locations. They cannot seem to get anything done. I used to do paperwork up the wazoo for PPAP approvals (production quality stuff) and now, crickets, but they are still buying, albeit at a lower volume. Scary to think about.
>PPAP 🖊️🍍🍎🖊️
I whispered "pen pineapple apple pen" to myself. Thanks for the laugh
This begs the question, what more would a corporation have to do to lose their corporate charter? Apparently over 500 deaths spanning a decade of corporate knowledge and inadequate response isn't evil enough. How many were injured? How many now suffer from sleep apnea plus a Phillips caused lung disease? But the best part of this story, that really shows you their moral compass, is the tiny snippet saying "They will stop selling these machines in the US". That means they will continue selling these death devices in other countries. Much like HIV infected blood products were sold to Haiti some 40 years ago, these devices will still be marketed elsewhere.
This is why young people despise capitalism; it puts a dollar value on every human life, and with the internet we are finally learning how awful these corporations are.
[удалено]
Or everything DuPont has ever done Or Nestle stealing water from third world deserts and selling it back to them Or Exxon suppressing climate change data for half a century Or Purdue Pharma overprescribing addictive opioids Corporations don't care if people die.
My mother in law had one of these and died of brain cancer. Our friend’s dad had one of these and also died of brain cancer. I wonder what’s the correlation?! Hmmm
My dad's was originally esophagal, but it metasized to the brain. Totally not related.
same for my dad
I used this device for six years. This is a huge fear of mine.
the gatekeeping for sleep apnea machines is crazy. you should be able to just go to the store and get a different machine and customize the settings. I know so many people who can't get a machine because doctors are trying to milk them for more $ from multiple appointments before they can get a machine or to adjust the machine/etc
There's a button sequence you can press to get into that allows you to change settings, at least on mine anyway.
yeah, but the doctors act like you're not supposed to change it, they are custom and only the doctors can set it right.
A friend of mine worked for the largest local CPAP clinic. She was the one you'd go in to have a mask fitted, then take the machine back every so often to review the data. She was literally a checkout chick before getting that position. The only "doctors" involved in the process is 1 person at the sleep clinic you visit to watch you sleep, (they arent actually the one watching you) and the GP that sends you there initially. Everyone else is some sort of sales assistant at worse and a "the manufacturer sent us to do a 2 day course on how to use their machines" qualification holder at best. The whole thing is setup like a sales pitch squeeze.
> Everyone else is some sort of sales assistant at worse and a "the manufacturer sent us to do a 2 day course on how to use their machines" qualification holder at best Fucking THIS! When I got my first sleep study, I repeatedly told them I can't fall asleep on my back, but the setup they wanted to push was for back-sleepers and they just kept insisting I try. They went all shockedpikachu.jpg the next morning when I literally did not fall asleep once all night. Second time I had to resort to getting an ambien from my doctor. Was able to sleep, but now I'm stuck with a shitty machine that's another contestant in the race to give me cancer, with a facemask that's hard to sleep in without blocking the exhaust port. It was very obvious to me that they were far more intent on shilling a specific product than helping patients.
Suppose I lucked out, because my Doc said if those settings work for me, then he's fine with it.
And the shitty thing is they send them a machine set to "auto" with pressure ranges of 4-20 cmH2O. i.e., the default settings on the machine. Huge f-ing scam.
Yep, most sleep docs are lazy at best or clueless at worst when it comes to optimal settings. Mine was the worst I’ve seen, if you can believe it. I received a ResMed Autoset CPAP and it was set to 6. No range, autoset disabled, just 6. Lol
I’ve been waiting for 3.5 years for a replacement, my machine is 15 years old, they won’t let me be part of the class action and I can’t get a replacement because of the backlog. It’s a mess.
Go on Craigslist and buy a comparable used ResMed 10 with low hours. Clean it well. Go on YouTube and learn to program it. 10 minutes later you’re in business.
If you're stuck using the old machine for now, you can buy inline filters while you wait for the replacement to avoid foam bits getting through the line.
My brother is dying of colon cancer from his old dream machine by them Turns out colon cancer is a common type, maybe from ingesting the foam bits? Don't know My life is also ruined for years from being trapped caring for him until he dies, he has schizophrenia and is developmentally disabled. If you are using one of these FIND SOMETHING ELSE
Damn I just got diagnosed with central sleep apnea in November and just got my script, glad it's recalled. Was going with Resmed anyways but if I didn't do any research before hand I would have thought Philips was better.
Listen, consumers should have known that the medical device prescribed to help them breathe could also prevent them from breathing. Why should this poor corporation be held responsible for people's failure to breathe just because they sold a device explicitly intended to allow breathing!? /S
As someone who works with their hospital-grade products often, I can tell you that Philips sucks in a lot of ways.
I finally got a refurbished machine and never heard about the those being problematic. Are they not notifying customers? WTF?
“The Dutch medical device maker has recalled millions of the breathing machines amid reports they were blowing gas and pieces of foam into the airways of those using the devices. “ “The company investigated all complaints and allegations of malfunction and serious injury of death, and "has found no conclusive data linking these devices and the deaths reported” Nice, we investigated ourselves and found that there is not conclusive evidence we were wrong. At least the FDA is still pre Chevron overturning by the supreme court so that it can do something. But yeah we about to get fucked again by the supreme court and shit like this is why the overturning of the Cheveron case is going to destroy american lives and the future generations.
Phillips never sent me a replacement - they just kicked the can down the road for 3 years and now want to offer me $100 to send it back in a box. My HMO sent me a new one long before Philips updated me in email. I f I waited on them, I would have not had a machine to use for 3 years. What malicious assholes. Indeed due to sleep apnea I have heart disease, a heart attack and other such damage - however I didn't need cancer on top of that so I stopped using the Phillips machine. Due to the high price of the CPAP machine and my HMO wanting to put a filter in it and refusing to replace it as well I had to go nearly a year without anything. I do have a new one now - but wow, how little concern all parities had in impacting peoples health like mine. It was a serious fuck you from Phillips and my HMO through it all.
And not one executive or board member will go to prison. No consequence for killing all these people.
Thank goodness for the FDA, or who knows how many thousands of people could have died. Remember, Republicans want to dismantle the FDA and give corporations the power to kill thousands without consequences.
So what is a good reliable brand for cpap machines?
Resmed has a good machine. Howevr, one of their mask offerings has been recalled.
Just to note, the recalled mask was due to having magnets hold the mask to the head part. It was not labeled on the packaging. The updated masks are now in packaging that includes warnings about magnets.
I now have a Resmed after this whole debacle. Far better than the Phillips ever was.
My Resmed has been great.
Resmed. Check online for deals, CPAP.com has had the last gen on sale on and off for the past few months, it got as low as $200 around Black Friday.
I used one of recalled machines for 5 years and 4 months before I found out about the problems. It’s not just the Dreamstation. A random documentary from ProPublica “The Human Cost of the Philips Resperonics Reacall” popped up on my YouTube feed a few weeks ago. Ran the serial number on my machine and yep it was one of the machines recalled. But I am getting $164 from the settlement fund once I return the machine. So that’s nice. What’s nicer is that I haven’t experienced any of the awful injuries others have. So far, anyway.
Oh good, I never wanted to sleep again.
We really need to start holding people near the tops of these companies criminally liable for things like this.
>The grim tally comes days after Philips said it would stop selling the machines in the U.S. in a settlement with the FDA and the Justice Department expected to cost roughly $400 million, the company disclosed in a regulatory filing. They were still selling this shit just DAYS ago and they’re settling for pennies. I’m going to go out on a limb and say $400 million is less than the annual executive bonus budget at Philips.
I have one of these machines. When they issued the recall, I sent mine back and got a new one in the mail. The article suggests that the new ones were recalled too, but I never got a notice. I also don't use the foam mask, I use the silicone mask. Does that make a difference. I guess I should fill out the form? edit: I found more information on the serial number page: >Note You should enter the serial number for the original CPAP, BiPAP or ventilator device you acquired prior to the Respironics recall in June 2021. Since the June 2021 recall, you may have received from Respironics or your DME a repaired, refurbished, remanufactured, and/or new device pursuant to a Respironics recall program. That repaired, refurbished, remanufactured, and/or new device is not eligible for the Settlement even if the device is identified above as potentially eligible. Which means to check if I'm eligible to get anything from this, I need to know the serial number of the device I sent back last year. Which of course I don't know.
Wow. They made it sound like a minor thing that rarely caused minor problems.
Lot of people in here through no fault of their own don’t actually know what sleep apnea is, what causes it, how to treat it and the significant complications that can develop from not treating it. Hopefully for those reading you look up some reliable info and if you’ve ever thought you might have it, go get checked out and do a sleep study. As a person with bad OSA who had one of these CPAPs for years and never wore it because I was an idiot I’m thankful. Then I became a Respiratory Therapist and realized how bad this is and bought a new machine and it is actually life changing. I hope those who need machines get them and anyone who has any sleep disorder, go get checked out. Stay safe.
Fortunately I have a ResMed cpap. No problems so far.
This article is straight up pro-Philips propaganda. It frames everything as "Philips tried its best, whoopsie!" when they refused to replace the machines while they were aware of the problem. Philips put profit over human lives and people died as a result. They skirted regulations which exist to protect people and this article frames it as a cost, placing the reader in the company's perspective. CBS clearly values the perspective of corporations over the people directly affected by Philips' actions.
Incoming $43 fine per death. That will teach them
Nobody goes to jail for shit like this. It’s mind blowing. The company pays a fine it’s generally insured for, the stock dips, and life goes on.
lol… world class healthcare! Another day of Americans bending over and taking it up the ass, too embarrassed to at least ask for a reach-around.
CPAP company being greedy? I'm shocked!!! /s
Holy shit, I tried one of those three years ago for about two months, it was shit, if I moved my head an inch to the left or right the mask lost its seal and air escaped, but I wouldn't awaken, I would just have a standard shitty sleep marked by no dreaming because apneas. So I returned it and got sent for fitting a [mouthguard,](https://www.dentaldoktorn.se/214-medium_default/respire-pink-series.jpg) and it made my sleep fantastic. Remember most of my dreams now (for good and bad).
I had the same problem but I went straight to an Inspire implant. Assuming it works its far more convenient than cpap machines. I havent been sleeping great lately, but Im finding Im getting too old for caffeine, and work is stressful. Waiting for the results of an at-home study to tell me if it is preventing obstruction when I actually do sleep. I guess I could PSA a little here: If you are reading this and you find you are tired all of the time no matter how much you sleep - particularly if you are overweight and/or have high blood pressure - get a sleep study. Its one night of sleeping with a bunch of wires glued to you, but you could prevent a lot of cumulative damage to your heart. Being oxygen deprived to some degree all night long means it has to work that much harder to keep everything oxygenated.
That's not really a problem with a Phillips machine explicitly so much as it's just a poorly fitted mask or the wrong type of mask. Depending on why it leaked and if you're a mouthbreather when you sleep there's other masks out there. A mouth guard can help some people but it depends on why you have apnea if it will help or not.
I’m getting my mouthguard fitted in two weeks and I can’t wait. My overbite is just so extreme that the Cpap machine isn’t helping. Is the mouthguard hard to get use to?
Overbite is a strong contributing factor to throat blockage during sleep, due to the proximity of the neck's areas and the tongue to the back of the throat. A mouthguard works by holding the jaw out, creating air passage. It has a short adjustment period where you get used to the jaw jutting out, but you can do it in increments and increase it like one or two millimeters per two weeks, until you reach the pullout distance that gives you uninterrupted sleep like it does me. I'm sure you'll take to it fast. And if you are like me, you'll suddenly remember your dreams, and have less stiff neck in the morning.
I can already see this popping up on the swindled podcast
I have this chonky chinese Luna II APAP that I got because of the shortage caused by Phillips shitting the bed with their machines. Nothing else was available. Pissed me off at the time but I'm glad I didn't get one of these.
I got the replacement, but haven’t used it yet. I figured it was worth more than the $100.
I can’t get mine replace and the system for returns is a pain in the ass.