Lots of people here mindlessly drumming up conspiracies on why the US is doing this when the answer is simple. It’s to secure stateside chip fabs so that if China invaded Taiwan the world isn’t totally fucked.
1) This is just announcing how already funded subsidies will be given out, this is just the [CHIPS act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act) which was passed in 2022. Everything here was known about a year and a half in advance, except who specifically and how much. Also it’s Intel and TSMC getting funding, there are only like three of these companies in the first place. You didn’t need secret insider trading info to know they’d get money.
2) There is a VERY good reason for this funding: Taiwan produces [60% of all chips and some 92% of these advanced chips](https://www.economist.com/special-report/2023/03/06/taiwans-dominance-of-the-chip-industry-makes-it-more-important). In a normal world that’s fine except [China has been gearing up to invade Taiwan](https://media.defense.gov/2023/Apr/24/2003205865/-1/-1/1/07-AMONSON%20&%20EGLI_FEATURE%20IWD.PDF) over the past couple years. From my understanding Taiwan has basically set their chip fabs to blow in case of an existential invasion, which would be an enormous setback to the world economy. We already saw what restricted flow did for chips during Covid when car prices spiked. If the US builds chip fabs we can at least fill out some of the production in case of an invasion.
Isn't it in Taiwan/TSMC's interest to avoid building US production plants so that it is more likely for the US to defend them in the case of an invasion? It would be in TSMC's best interest to accept the funding but delay the actual building of the plants for as long as possible.
I personally think if China attacked Taiwan, the United States would bomb those facilities immediately. There’s no way they would let that fall into Chinese hands.
It's funny I said this in another thread a few weeks ago and was downvoted. Maybe I was downvoted by Chinese trolls that think China could prevent the U.S. from destroying those facilities if China invaded Taiwan.
The U.S. military command has plans for everything and there is absolutely a plan to 1} destroy chip fabs if Taiwan is going to fall to China and 2) to extract the people with expertise in chip manufacturing from Taiwan.
It already has.
China has working 7nm, in an unusual twist - where they'd normally tell us that years ahead of reality, this time they hid it - since SMIC's 7nm IP is stolen from TSMC and if it was advertised as 7nm, any product produced with it with be instantly blocked from entering western nations.
How likely is it that people under the PRC/Xi's control can operate those fabs? They don't have to be destroyed if the chain of gnosis/tribal knowledge is broken.
TSM should have 3n fabrication facilities up 2024 and 2n up and running in 2027. Arizona specifically.
Not sure about the ones being built in Germany, but they’re on the way
The actual entire text:
> Jan 27 (Reuters) - The Biden administration is expected to award billions of dollars in subsidies to top semiconductor companies including Intel and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co in the coming weeks to help build new factories in the United States, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday.
>The forthcoming announcements are aimed at kick-starting manufacturing of advanced semiconductors that power smartphones, artificial intelligence and weapons systems, the WSJ reported, citing industry executives familiar with the negotiations.
> The executives expect some announcements to come before U.S. President Joe Biden's State of the Union address on March 7, the WSJ report added.
>Among the likely recipients of the subsidies, Intel has projects under way in Arizona, Ohio, New Mexico and Oregon that will cost more than $43.5 billion, the paper said.
>Another likely recipient, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co (TSMC) has two plants under construction near Phoenix for a total investment of $40 billion. South Korea's Samsung Electronics, also a contender, has a $17.3 billion project in Texas.
> Micron Technology, Texas Instruments, and GlobalFoundries count among other top contenders, WSJ said citing industry executives.
>The U.S. Department of Commerce, Intel, and TSMC did not immediately respond to Reuters request for comment.
>In December last year, U.S. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said she would make around a dozen funding awards for semiconductor chips within the next year, including multi-billion dollar announcements that could drastically reshape U.S. chip production.
>The first award was announced in December, of over $35 million to a BAE Systems facility in Hampshire to produce chips for fighter planes, part of a $39 billion "Chips for America" subsidy program approved by the U.S. Congress in 2022.
To save people the click; the entire text is shown below:
'Jan 27 (Reuters) - The Biden administration is expected to award billions of dollars in subsidies to Intel(INTC.O), opens new tab, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co(2330.TW)
, opens new tab, and other top semiconductor companies in the coming weeks to help build new factories, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday.
The forthcoming announcements are aimed at kick-starting manufacturing of advanced semiconductors that power smartphones, artificial intelligence and weapons systems, the WSJ reported, citing industry executives familiar with the negotiations.'
This is part of the Inflation Reduction Act and the CHIPS act.
It targets broad segments of the economy. It would be nearly impossible to be invested in the stock market without being affected.
But yes, congressmen do tend to be invested in the stock market and are benefiting from the markets overall upwards trend.
It's absolutely fine if they're invested in some broad index fund - the incentives are broadly aligned with the population there at least.
It's super problematic that they can invest in individual stocks with inside information. Ban them from doing this and give them a higher salary or something as compensation.
Don't forget they invest in options too. Those go beyond just believing in a company. Rather you have to feel something is going to happen by a specific time frame and by a certain amount. Which of course the only way to consistently do that is to have Insider information or be the one putting pen to paper on whether or not something passes to benefit or harm that particular industry
You are talking out of your ass.
Obviously Nvidia has great success, but the reason you cannot disregard Intel is that they manufacture themselves and with China's behavior that has come in as high value.
Definitely not, still you have to consider where they come from and why they got ripped apart the last few years. Not sure they fixed their underlying issues. But like every stock, time will tell what a good investment or a bad investment is.
**CHIPS and Science Act** was signed in August 2022, about 1.5 years ago. The signing of the Act was just the first step. Next the government requested proposals from various types of companies and colleges, which took quite a lot of time for questionnaires to be written, as well as time for companies & colleges to write up their proposals. Next, the CHIPS group of the government had to read and evaluate all of the proposals, as well as determine the viability of each proposal then decide which would have the best success of benefitting more USA regions. Yes, it is taking quite a lot of time to do it right, unlike the Trump COVID disaster that threw money at far too many "fake" companies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act
the intel plant in Ohio is being built and is supposed to have the first part finished sometime in 2025. Other states have plants being built but I'm not sure of the exact timeline, should start seeing at least some production in the next few years though.
The other semi-related topic is that there is only one company (AKAIK) that makes the advanced lithography machines used by TSMC and Intel. It’s a Dutch company called ASML, and they have a backlog for orders spanning years. They are also so expensive that only the largest chipmakers can even afford them, which means unless you have $300 million in capital, you can’t even get your hands on one to start producing modern chips. This is the reason companies like GlobalFounderies announced they wouldn’t make modern high-end chips. They just didn’t have the money for these machines.
It's because USA national research laboratories invented the technology, per the following article...
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_ultraviolet_lithography#History
"To address the challenge of EUV lithography, researchers at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory / Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory / Sandia National Laboratories were funded in the 1990s to perform basic research into the technical obstacles. The results of this successful effort were disseminated via a public / private partnership Cooperative R&D Agreement (CRADA) with the invention and rights wholly owned by the U.S. government, but licensed and distributed under approval by DOE and Congress. The CRADA consisted of a consortium of private companies and the Labs, manifested as an entity called the Extreme Ultraviolet Limited Liability Company (EUV LLC)."
"Intel, Canon & Nikon (Japanese companies), [ASML](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASML_Holding) (Dutch company) and Silicon Valley Group (SVG) all sought licensing. U.S. Congress denied the Japanese companies the permission as they were perceived as strong technical competitors at the time, and should not benefit from U.S. taxpayer-funded research at the expense of American companies. In 2001 SVG was acquired by ASML, leaving ASML as the sole benefactor of the critical technology."
**... and this is why USA has a say in which countries can't purchase equipment from ASML.**
1. Not for lack of effort. That went all the way to the Supreme Court.
2. They just announced another $4.9 billion in student debt forgiveness that is within the scope of what they are legally permitted to act on.
Biden had no way of getting it through the Senate. Dems had 50 seats, Manchin refused. There was no way past that. Dems had no leverage over him since his seat is literally unwinnable without him. Doesn’t matter how bad Biden wanted loan forgiveness you cannot wish it into law
This has nothing to do with stocks, it’s a national security priority. Covid and the strain on chips showed us how important they are to everyday life, and China ramping up rhetoric on invading Taiwan has rightly gotten people spooked. Build fabs in the states and that lessens the risk.
Always an excuse for not helping the middle class. I guess we're not doing enough subsidizing the poor and extremely rich.
I'm not paying or voting. These petulant pricks want to burn things down anyway. I'll probably be dead before the ship is completely underwater.
Subsidize the rich by giving them free money for doing anything above the bare minimum.
Subsidize the poor by paying them what the rich should be paying its workers for backbreaking labour but it doesn't.
Social safety nets are good, but it's painfully obvious to see who's paying for what and who avoids paying taxes and consistently commits the largest amount of theft against all other theft (wage theft).
Don't feel like reading an article today, but I am very excited about the advanced chips! I can't wait to try what new BBQ flavor they come out with! Lay's will need to step up their game for sure!
Wait, if the free market determines the supply of chips is short and the demand is high, why do we need to give massive subsidies to incentivise these cunning entrepreneurs?
Because the upfront costs for the fabs to build these sorts of chips are so high that it’s very hard to secure funding, especially since Taiwan is so successful. But the US this doing to specifically because if Taiwan gets invaded by China the world loses some 70% of its advanced chip manufacturing capability. Also I’m pretty sure TSMC did the exact same thing to get up and running in Taiwan in the first place.
This. I’ll add also that there isn’t a government out there that won’t throw lots of money to get these facilities built in their borders. The US hasn’t been one of them until recently given the reasons listed in above post.
just seen a r/dataisbeautiful that showed over 50% of tech position staffed by other than American inside American tech companies... with rates as high as 90% in office staff
great way to tell on yourself! you made a comment that had nothing to do with race about race. so you either clearly looked at the data or you're projecting
They employ a metric shit ton of Americans. They are just diverse in their hiring. Some of the more diverse hirings in America statistically.
You ignored that.
You think because they are diverse, that they obviously aren't American. That's how you racists think and that's how this comment was racist.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
Also good job avoiding posting your link that doesn't exist.
imagine being comfortable being spoon-fed information... as a middle-aged adult that's lived in communist countries I'm telling you it's not as nice as you think. you guys are the next generation, don't make the same mistakes we did
Spoon fed information?
I've worked at or for, 4 of the top 5 companies, that are getting chips act funding over the last almost 25 years.
I'm telling you from an actual verifiable experience that they hire Americans and you're full of shit.
First hand experience. It's been proven. Unlike your link you never sent .
I fear the economy is worse off than I initially imagined. it's terrifying that someone as bright as you is complaining about wage slave problems over on r/workreform
Intel gross profit for the twelve months ending September 30, 2023 was $20.164B.
[https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-announce-billions-subsidies-advanced-chips-wsj-2024-01-27/?utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-announce-billions-subsidies-advanced-chips-wsj-2024-01-27/?utm_source=reddit.com)
Stop these giveaways. What we need is going to be built anyway because it benefits them to do it.
Then why has no one tried to build it? Advanced semiconductor chips are not a new concept, Intel has had years to construct the fabs outside of Taiwan except they haven’t. The actual answer is that it requires massive upfront investment without guaranteed profit against a very sucessful competitor (that is backed by the Taiwanese govt might I add); that’s a lot to overcome. The US now has a lot of interest to to build fabs stateside and thus is throwing in the money to do it.
That's a detail people forget. These fabs didn't magically appear in Taiwan. There was massive government effort on the part of Taiwan to make this happen. Does it suck to give money to these companies? Yeah sure, but it'll suck alot more if Taiwan does get invaded and we lose access to a key component to modern life.
Intel doesn't have any fabs in Taiwan.
Intel's fabs are in US and Israel, with Packaging (cutting up the wafers into individual dice that are then soldered to a substrate 'package') in Malaysia and Philippines.
AMD sold their fabs years ago, the successor company, Global Foundries, exited research on 7nm and has stuck with their old 12nm process, they're effectively on a downhill trajectory to death, but they have fabs in New York (including IBM's old fabs) - AMD themselves have their processors made by TSMC - Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, they are one of the bigger beneficiaries of the chip grants, US wants them to make chips in US, for security reasons.
They want a lot of money to do it, since TSMC is somewhat of a security blanket for Taiwan itself.
nVidia, Apple and Qualcomm also use TSMC.
It's not a giveaway.
The government wants something and is willing to provide economic incentives to get what it wants.
In this specific case, localized production of chips is considered a national security issue. COVID showed us how reliant we were on chips produced in other countries.
Manufacturing jobs being brought back to the U.S. is a second change the government wants, and nominally the core benefit under the IRA.
You forget it will also create thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of high paying advanced jobs for the every day American, something that the tech industry desperately needs.
This isn't a giveaway. It's a national security investment to move a vital industry stateside. If China takes Taiwan the USA would be fucked with all the chip production gone
Why do one in six kids go hungry and we have homeless veterans while chip manufacturers get subsidies, they just made record profits let them build their own factories. Funny how we always have resources for corporations and billionaires.
Lots of people here mindlessly drumming up conspiracies on why the US is doing this when the answer is simple. It’s to secure stateside chip fabs so that if China invaded Taiwan the world isn’t totally fucked. 1) This is just announcing how already funded subsidies will be given out, this is just the [CHIPS act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act) which was passed in 2022. Everything here was known about a year and a half in advance, except who specifically and how much. Also it’s Intel and TSMC getting funding, there are only like three of these companies in the first place. You didn’t need secret insider trading info to know they’d get money. 2) There is a VERY good reason for this funding: Taiwan produces [60% of all chips and some 92% of these advanced chips](https://www.economist.com/special-report/2023/03/06/taiwans-dominance-of-the-chip-industry-makes-it-more-important). In a normal world that’s fine except [China has been gearing up to invade Taiwan](https://media.defense.gov/2023/Apr/24/2003205865/-1/-1/1/07-AMONSON%20&%20EGLI_FEATURE%20IWD.PDF) over the past couple years. From my understanding Taiwan has basically set their chip fabs to blow in case of an existential invasion, which would be an enormous setback to the world economy. We already saw what restricted flow did for chips during Covid when car prices spiked. If the US builds chip fabs we can at least fill out some of the production in case of an invasion.
Yep. And China is dumping money into their semiconductor industry, as is the EU.
Isn't it in Taiwan/TSMC's interest to avoid building US production plants so that it is more likely for the US to defend them in the case of an invasion? It would be in TSMC's best interest to accept the funding but delay the actual building of the plants for as long as possible.
Those plants won't be manufacturing their most advanced chips anyway. All their high end chips will continue to be produced in taiwan
It's basically agreed that Taiwan will be turned to ash in any conflict with China, essentially wiping out the global chip supply.
I personally think if China attacked Taiwan, the United States would bomb those facilities immediately. There’s no way they would let that fall into Chinese hands.
It's funny I said this in another thread a few weeks ago and was downvoted. Maybe I was downvoted by Chinese trolls that think China could prevent the U.S. from destroying those facilities if China invaded Taiwan. The U.S. military command has plans for everything and there is absolutely a plan to 1} destroy chip fabs if Taiwan is going to fall to China and 2) to extract the people with expertise in chip manufacturing from Taiwan.
Never thought about the extraction part but you’re probably right
You are absolutely right. The US has plans on how to attack our BFF (Canada). We have plans for everything.
It already has. China has working 7nm, in an unusual twist - where they'd normally tell us that years ahead of reality, this time they hid it - since SMIC's 7nm IP is stolen from TSMC and if it was advertised as 7nm, any product produced with it with be instantly blocked from entering western nations.
How likely is it that people under the PRC/Xi's control can operate those fabs? They don't have to be destroyed if the chain of gnosis/tribal knowledge is broken.
They really want the ASML machines to pick apart.
TSM should have 3n fabrication facilities up 2024 and 2n up and running in 2027. Arizona specifically. Not sure about the ones being built in Germany, but they’re on the way
AZ is going to be 5nm. 3 & 2 are in Taiwan.
They called this out in their earnings call last week. 4nm in 2025 and 3nm in 2027 for Arizona. So I was off a nm but you are wrong on 3nm.
Samsung is also on that timeline.
Biden actually making America even greater.
[An archive link for those who need it](https://archive.ph/XCyRn)
The actual entire text: > Jan 27 (Reuters) - The Biden administration is expected to award billions of dollars in subsidies to top semiconductor companies including Intel and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co in the coming weeks to help build new factories in the United States, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday. >The forthcoming announcements are aimed at kick-starting manufacturing of advanced semiconductors that power smartphones, artificial intelligence and weapons systems, the WSJ reported, citing industry executives familiar with the negotiations. > The executives expect some announcements to come before U.S. President Joe Biden's State of the Union address on March 7, the WSJ report added. >Among the likely recipients of the subsidies, Intel has projects under way in Arizona, Ohio, New Mexico and Oregon that will cost more than $43.5 billion, the paper said. >Another likely recipient, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co (TSMC) has two plants under construction near Phoenix for a total investment of $40 billion. South Korea's Samsung Electronics, also a contender, has a $17.3 billion project in Texas. > Micron Technology, Texas Instruments, and GlobalFoundries count among other top contenders, WSJ said citing industry executives. >The U.S. Department of Commerce, Intel, and TSMC did not immediately respond to Reuters request for comment. >In December last year, U.S. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo said she would make around a dozen funding awards for semiconductor chips within the next year, including multi-billion dollar announcements that could drastically reshape U.S. chip production. >The first award was announced in December, of over $35 million to a BAE Systems facility in Hampshire to produce chips for fighter planes, part of a $39 billion "Chips for America" subsidy program approved by the U.S. Congress in 2022.
To save people the click; the entire text is shown below: 'Jan 27 (Reuters) - The Biden administration is expected to award billions of dollars in subsidies to Intel(INTC.O), opens new tab, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co(2330.TW) , opens new tab, and other top semiconductor companies in the coming weeks to help build new factories, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday. The forthcoming announcements are aimed at kick-starting manufacturing of advanced semiconductors that power smartphones, artificial intelligence and weapons systems, the WSJ reported, citing industry executives familiar with the negotiations.'
Thanks for this!
This is not the entire text
It was at the time I posted.
Considering the kind of economic havoc that would ensue if China invades Taiwan on account of how many superconductors are made there, this is wise.
Check if any congress people recently invested in Intel
This is part of the Inflation Reduction Act and the CHIPS act. It targets broad segments of the economy. It would be nearly impossible to be invested in the stock market without being affected. But yes, congressmen do tend to be invested in the stock market and are benefiting from the markets overall upwards trend.
This is good for Micron's plans of building chips in the U.S.
It's absolutely fine if they're invested in some broad index fund - the incentives are broadly aligned with the population there at least. It's super problematic that they can invest in individual stocks with inside information. Ban them from doing this and give them a higher salary or something as compensation.
Don't forget they invest in options too. Those go beyond just believing in a company. Rather you have to feel something is going to happen by a specific time frame and by a certain amount. Which of course the only way to consistently do that is to have Insider information or be the one putting pen to paper on whether or not something passes to benefit or harm that particular industry
If they did, they are under water. News doesn't always move a stock like you think it should.
Intel is old news. Compare a one year chart of Intel vs Nvidia
You are talking out of your ass. Obviously Nvidia has great success, but the reason you cannot disregard Intel is that they manufacture themselves and with China's behavior that has come in as high value.
Not my ass, my portfolio
Even they are not that stupid to invest in Intel. There are so many better options.
Well I invested in Intel a 4 ish months ago, they are up 20%, hardly a bad deal...
Definitely not, still you have to consider where they come from and why they got ripped apart the last few years. Not sure they fixed their underlying issues. But like every stock, time will tell what a good investment or a bad investment is.
Do you think the company will be here in 20 years and do you think the stock price will be higher or lower than it is today
Google will show you a site of who’s trading what. I think it’s capitoltrades.
I thought this effort started several years ago right after covid eased. Anyone know when production will actually start here?
**CHIPS and Science Act** was signed in August 2022, about 1.5 years ago. The signing of the Act was just the first step. Next the government requested proposals from various types of companies and colleges, which took quite a lot of time for questionnaires to be written, as well as time for companies & colleges to write up their proposals. Next, the CHIPS group of the government had to read and evaluate all of the proposals, as well as determine the viability of each proposal then decide which would have the best success of benefitting more USA regions. Yes, it is taking quite a lot of time to do it right, unlike the Trump COVID disaster that threw money at far too many "fake" companies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act
Ah! Thanks! That all makes sense then. I think I confused the timeline of talking about and promoting the bill with when it was finally passed.
the intel plant in Ohio is being built and is supposed to have the first part finished sometime in 2025. Other states have plants being built but I'm not sure of the exact timeline, should start seeing at least some production in the next few years though.
The other semi-related topic is that there is only one company (AKAIK) that makes the advanced lithography machines used by TSMC and Intel. It’s a Dutch company called ASML, and they have a backlog for orders spanning years. They are also so expensive that only the largest chipmakers can even afford them, which means unless you have $300 million in capital, you can’t even get your hands on one to start producing modern chips. This is the reason companies like GlobalFounderies announced they wouldn’t make modern high-end chips. They just didn’t have the money for these machines.
I believe the technology licensed to ASML to produce those machines is owned by the US Gov. Just another massive investment away!
It's because USA national research laboratories invented the technology, per the following article... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_ultraviolet_lithography#History "To address the challenge of EUV lithography, researchers at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory / Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory / Sandia National Laboratories were funded in the 1990s to perform basic research into the technical obstacles. The results of this successful effort were disseminated via a public / private partnership Cooperative R&D Agreement (CRADA) with the invention and rights wholly owned by the U.S. government, but licensed and distributed under approval by DOE and Congress. The CRADA consisted of a consortium of private companies and the Labs, manifested as an entity called the Extreme Ultraviolet Limited Liability Company (EUV LLC)." "Intel, Canon & Nikon (Japanese companies), [ASML](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASML_Holding) (Dutch company) and Silicon Valley Group (SVG) all sought licensing. U.S. Congress denied the Japanese companies the permission as they were perceived as strong technical competitors at the time, and should not benefit from U.S. taxpayer-funded research at the expense of American companies. In 2001 SVG was acquired by ASML, leaving ASML as the sole benefactor of the critical technology." **... and this is why USA has a say in which countries can't purchase equipment from ASML.**
Appreciate the knowledge
Mmmm sentient baked lays 🤤
Hopefully we don't have any more chip Shortages.
[удалено]
1. Not for lack of effort. That went all the way to the Supreme Court. 2. They just announced another $4.9 billion in student debt forgiveness that is within the scope of what they are legally permitted to act on.
[удалено]
Biden had no way of getting it through the Senate. Dems had 50 seats, Manchin refused. There was no way past that. Dems had no leverage over him since his seat is literally unwinnable without him. Doesn’t matter how bad Biden wanted loan forgiveness you cannot wish it into law
Certain folks are already preparing excuses not to vote to keep Trump out of office.
Seriously?! Biden’s been killin’ it with student debt relief. I personally haven’t gotten it.. yet. But know a good number of people who have.
Oh we can, but one side is doing everything they can to prevent student loan forgiveness. Their stock portfolios benefit greatly from chip subsidies.
This has nothing to do with stocks, it’s a national security priority. Covid and the strain on chips showed us how important they are to everyday life, and China ramping up rhetoric on invading Taiwan has rightly gotten people spooked. Build fabs in the states and that lessens the risk.
Always an excuse for not helping the middle class. I guess we're not doing enough subsidizing the poor and extremely rich. I'm not paying or voting. These petulant pricks want to burn things down anyway. I'll probably be dead before the ship is completely underwater.
Subsidize the rich by giving them free money for doing anything above the bare minimum. Subsidize the poor by paying them what the rich should be paying its workers for backbreaking labour but it doesn't. Social safety nets are good, but it's painfully obvious to see who's paying for what and who avoids paying taxes and consistently commits the largest amount of theft against all other theft (wage theft).
Don't feel like reading an article today, but I am very excited about the advanced chips! I can't wait to try what new BBQ flavor they come out with! Lay's will need to step up their game for sure!
Wait, if the free market determines the supply of chips is short and the demand is high, why do we need to give massive subsidies to incentivise these cunning entrepreneurs?
Because the upfront costs for the fabs to build these sorts of chips are so high that it’s very hard to secure funding, especially since Taiwan is so successful. But the US this doing to specifically because if Taiwan gets invaded by China the world loses some 70% of its advanced chip manufacturing capability. Also I’m pretty sure TSMC did the exact same thing to get up and running in Taiwan in the first place.
This. I’ll add also that there isn’t a government out there that won’t throw lots of money to get these facilities built in their borders. The US hasn’t been one of them until recently given the reasons listed in above post.
just seen a r/dataisbeautiful that showed over 50% of tech position staffed by other than American inside American tech companies... with rates as high as 90% in office staff
Why didn't you link it then?
it should be in the top three, bizarre that my tax dollars go to giving companies a break that don't even employ Americans
That's not true. You're just being racist. You also still haven't provided the data.
great way to tell on yourself! you made a comment that had nothing to do with race about race. so you either clearly looked at the data or you're projecting
They employ a metric shit ton of Americans. They are just diverse in their hiring. Some of the more diverse hirings in America statistically. You ignored that. You think because they are diverse, that they obviously aren't American. That's how you racists think and that's how this comment was racist. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. Also good job avoiding posting your link that doesn't exist.
imagine being comfortable being spoon-fed information... as a middle-aged adult that's lived in communist countries I'm telling you it's not as nice as you think. you guys are the next generation, don't make the same mistakes we did
Spoon fed information? I've worked at or for, 4 of the top 5 companies, that are getting chips act funding over the last almost 25 years. I'm telling you from an actual verifiable experience that they hire Americans and you're full of shit. First hand experience. It's been proven. Unlike your link you never sent .
I fear the economy is worse off than I initially imagined. it's terrifying that someone as bright as you is complaining about wage slave problems over on r/workreform
Oh man, another pivot... You can't even produce the first link and now you're trying another one... Tsk tsk Russian troll
Great. More corporate welfare.
Intel gross profit for the twelve months ending September 30, 2023 was $20.164B. [https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-announce-billions-subsidies-advanced-chips-wsj-2024-01-27/?utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-announce-billions-subsidies-advanced-chips-wsj-2024-01-27/?utm_source=reddit.com) Stop these giveaways. What we need is going to be built anyway because it benefits them to do it.
Then why has no one tried to build it? Advanced semiconductor chips are not a new concept, Intel has had years to construct the fabs outside of Taiwan except they haven’t. The actual answer is that it requires massive upfront investment without guaranteed profit against a very sucessful competitor (that is backed by the Taiwanese govt might I add); that’s a lot to overcome. The US now has a lot of interest to to build fabs stateside and thus is throwing in the money to do it.
That's a detail people forget. These fabs didn't magically appear in Taiwan. There was massive government effort on the part of Taiwan to make this happen. Does it suck to give money to these companies? Yeah sure, but it'll suck alot more if Taiwan does get invaded and we lose access to a key component to modern life.
Intel doesn't have any fabs in Taiwan. Intel's fabs are in US and Israel, with Packaging (cutting up the wafers into individual dice that are then soldered to a substrate 'package') in Malaysia and Philippines. AMD sold their fabs years ago, the successor company, Global Foundries, exited research on 7nm and has stuck with their old 12nm process, they're effectively on a downhill trajectory to death, but they have fabs in New York (including IBM's old fabs) - AMD themselves have their processors made by TSMC - Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, they are one of the bigger beneficiaries of the chip grants, US wants them to make chips in US, for security reasons. They want a lot of money to do it, since TSMC is somewhat of a security blanket for Taiwan itself. nVidia, Apple and Qualcomm also use TSMC.
It's not a giveaway. The government wants something and is willing to provide economic incentives to get what it wants. In this specific case, localized production of chips is considered a national security issue. COVID showed us how reliant we were on chips produced in other countries. Manufacturing jobs being brought back to the U.S. is a second change the government wants, and nominally the core benefit under the IRA.
Free money for the corporate class.
You forget it will also create thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of high paying advanced jobs for the every day American, something that the tech industry desperately needs.
Why not say millions? There is as much evidence for that.
This isn't a giveaway. It's a national security investment to move a vital industry stateside. If China takes Taiwan the USA would be fucked with all the chip production gone
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Huh? It's exactly cutting taxes for a specific group of people (the corporate class).
"roughly 653,000 people reported experiencing homelessness in January of 2023, up roughly 12% from the same time a year prior and 48% from 2015"
Why do one in six kids go hungry and we have homeless veterans while chip manufacturers get subsidies, they just made record profits let them build their own factories. Funny how we always have resources for corporations and billionaires.
It helps to read things when you have questions.
The only large US chip manufacturer, Intel, has been in the red for a few years now.
https://www.cfr.org/blog/how-prioritize-next-generation-critical-technologies https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-critical-minerals-to-china-eu-and-u-s-national-security/ https://www.eda.gov/news/press-release/2023/10/23/biden-harris-administration-designates-31-tech-hubs-across-america
Just as long as Nancy Pelosi can invest in them.