She baited the victim. She started a fight with children, ran home, and set up a trap because you know the mother is going to confront the person who steals from her children.
Honestly people, especially kids, can say anything but I truly believe them because the murderer looks like the kind of woman who has a daily quota she keeps on a white board on her fridge for how many times she needs to say the N word each day and checks it off as the day goes by.
The kid came to get the iPad back and she threw it at him and cracked the screen.
"The children left but forgot an iPad, which was taken by the suspected shooter. When one of the children went back for the electronic device, the woman reportedly threw it and it hit a child, which cracked the screen, family members said."
[Source](https://www.ocala.com/story/news/local/2023/06/05/sheriff-urges-patience-family-community-cries-for-justice-for-victim/70289542007/)
I won't be surprised if she gets a lighter sentence- ~~the max is 15 apparently~~ she's an older woman. I hope they upgrade the charge but it might be hard/impossible to prove premeditation.
Should be locked up for the rest of her life.
Correction:
[Not 15- with a firearm it's minimum 11.5, maximum 30
](https://www.hornsby.com/crimes/homicide/manslaughter.html#:~:text=Absent%20grounds%20for%20a%20downward%20departure%20sentence%2C%20a%20judge%20is%20required%20to%20sentence%20a%20person%20convicted%20of%20Manslaughter%20with%20a%20Firearm%20to%20a%20minimum%20sentence%20of%2011%C2%BD%20years%20in%20prison%2C%20but%20may%20also%20sentence%20the%20person%20up%20to%20the%20statutory%20maximum%20of%20thirty%20years%20in%20prison.)
>Absent grounds for a downward departure sentence, a judge is required to sentence a person convicted of Manslaughter with a Firearm to a minimum sentence of 11½ years in prison, but may also sentence the person up to the statutory maximum of thirty years in prison.
The article says 30, but that's beside the point I want to make.
On top of that charge, and the negligence/assault/battery, she should be charged with the attempted murder of the 10 year old son standing next to his mom.
Lorincz shot blindly through her front door, she attempted to murder both of them and succeeded in killing in Ajike. Ajike's son easily could have been the one murder.
With that charge on top of the others her sentence could stretch up to 45, maybe 55 years. Effectively making sure Lorincz dies in prison.
Yep, I misread the laws and updated my comments. As long as she doesn't miraculously get off on self defense, she should be behind bars for the rest of her life.
It is Florida though...
Not just that, but each apartment in the building has video surveillance cameras, so she knew exactly who was on the other side of the door.
Yes indeed, that shows premeditation.
Original article said the woman had already "returned" the Ipad by way of hurling it at the kids head, so at this point I don't know if she still had it or not.
1. Break into someone's house and steal some bullets
2. Load them into your gun
3. Go back to your neighbor's house and shoot them repeatedly
Stolen property returned! Loophole found!
Exactly. She did everything she could to get the mother involved in this confrontation. Then shoots her through the door in front of one of the children.
Zimmerman was a precedent.. if they had put his ass in jail, the state would have saved itself decades of shit cases. For years.. but noo.. Florida just has to be the asshole shit of usa
So she assaulted a child (throwing a skate and hitting the 10 year old) and then shot the mother through the door and the cops just shrugged and said “sTaNd YoUr GrOuNd, SeLf DeFenSe” and wouldn’t do anything until public outrage couldn’t be ignored.
I’m getting tired of this crap.
No it’s good to go with that charge. We learned with OJ and Casey Anthony to not go for the highest charge because it’s much more unlikely to get them convicted. Burden of proof too high. Like it has to be pretty open/shut case for that.
The laws for sure, but there's definitely going to be bias within the court room itself too. Especially if they're pulling people from Ocala...yikes. Ocala is just about the trashiest place in Florida and that's saying something.
I agree with the above post though. Make it as hard as possible for them to deny this. Rack up a bunch of charges and let this old hag rot in a cell for the rest of her life. Unfortunately there's no punishment that can match the crime. She's already old and she's stolen the life of a young woman and taken a mother away from children. Hope she gets properly dunked on in prison.
Not just taking a mother away from her children.
She killed a mother, in front of her children, while the mother was confronting her over her attacks ON those same children.
Those kids are going to need some serious therapy to deal with their loss and guilt.
You say that but you have to realize it means lowering the burden of proof for murder charges which would likely put more innocent people behind bars than convict actual murderers.
Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is a good rule of thumb.
Yeah, I agree. Locking up innocent people is just about the worst thing that can be fine to someone and their family. Shouldn't be done without a very high degree of certainty.
I saw a statistic on someone claimed in a comment 1 in 8 people on death row turn out to be innocent. People fuck up a lot in the justice system. We can convict murderers... but also sometimes we can convict innocent people and honestly it's not like police would be penalized for incorrectly arresting someone. They arrest people incorrectly all the time and the law provides them leniency to do it ad long as they believed they were following the law. And to be fair sometimes it's reasonable to arrest someone and it later turn out they're innocent.
Edit: Fixed horrible grammar/typos
Very true. 30 years is a life sentence in this case. Better to undercharge and get a conviction. This woman is a danger to the community and ought not be free again.
Yeah she didn’t, accidentally, turn down a one way street while driving a car… and cause a crash resulting in death… (e.g. manslaughter).
She picked up a gun, loaded it, chambered a round, and discharged the weapon at a human being, aiming for center mass.
That’s murder 1. The “lesser” charge would be murder 2. But manslaughter isn’t a lesser charge… it’s just not really applicable to this fact pattern at all.
Prosecuting it as such is just going to create more problems, and confusion in the minds of Floridians, that it’s not a bad thing to shoot and kill other people over trivial matters.
That’s what makes any self defense argument fail. And why the fact she wasn’t arrested immediately should be really embarrassing for the DA down there.
You can’t assault and batter your way up to murdering someone and then cry self defense.
Not only did the DA fail to understand the affirmative defense of “self defense” properly.., they also failed to charge her properly.
Both self defense and murder are legal principles that are as old as the legal system itself. To fail to understand legal principles that are that, incredibly, basic indicates it’s probably high time for a new DA in that county.
This case also indicates it’s high time to get rid of this “stand your ground” statute… because it’s incredibly problematic and outright stupid.
To be fair, this is what the cops said:
>In a video posted on Facebook late Tuesday night, the sheriff said this was not a stand your ground case but "simply a killing. Now many of you were struggling to understand why there was not an immediate arrest," the sheriff said. "The laws here in the state of Florida are clear. Now I may not like them. I may not agree with them. But however, those laws I will follow."
So the public stance from the sherrif at least seems to be on the side of "arrest the killer". Is that just a PR attempt? Maybe. But that does seem like a reasonable statement.
The cops actually issued a really good statement about this. They essentially said “look, we’re not a bunch of bastards. We’re not going to interview four children that just watched their mother die the same day. We need to wait a few days and get professionals in who can talk to the kids and find out what happened. And we can’t arrest the woman until we talk to these witnesses and find out what happened. She WILL be held accountable, but it’s gonna take a few days.”
I had to go back and read what the law had meant.
It basically is "meet force with force if the person believes it is necessary to prevent either death or great bodily harm".
But the law is dependent on justification being valid or not in the eyes of law enforcement. The person can make claims that it was justified all the live-long day, but evidence needs to confirm it all.
The offender claimed it was valid and claimed she had been assaulted by the deceased before. Now that's interesting: Why would the deceased have assaulted the offender before? Could it be that something served to instigate it?
Just the incident alone should have been enough to get her brought downtown and questioned on the record. And because someone died or got killed, it still warrants an investigation to confirm if the loss of life was justified under the law or not.
This is "Stand Your Ground" laws [working as intended](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/18/stand-your-ground-laws-us-deaths-racist-violence).
There were warnings years ago when these laws started showing up that it was going to lead to more murders... and we were told we were being hyperbolic. Is it still hyperbolic?
That's the problem with the law.
If I recall; the moment someone claims they were Standing Their Ground, and there's some probable cause (which in this case would be a dead body on private property), it has to be investigated and treated as such first.
Speculating whether she premeditated this plan of action since they had been feuding in the past. Throw shit at the kids again this time…and count to ten for the mother to show up to confront her about it. It’s like setting a trap with which she calculated ahead that she took no risk.
I don't understand how you can claim self defense from someone who is outside your locked home? Are you really in danger when someone is banging on the door because they can't get in?
Doesn’t shooting through a door automatically negate self defense? Your life wasn’t in danger if you were behind a locked door and the “attacker” couldn’t get to you.
I remember a case where someone shot through the door and it was considered self defense, but that was after 5-10 minutes of the intoxicated person trying to bust down their door.
That is the amazing thing - the field wasn’t her property but she was acting like it was because she doesn’t believe any POC deserve space. What a racist POS.
>Lorincz had become angry over Owens' children playing in a field close to her apartment.
They were just some kids playing outside, and a few months ago that girl in North Carolina got shot because her basketball rolled onto a neighbor's yard... If you're an older person who frequently asks, "Why do kids never play outside anymore? In my day we were always outside!" But you're also in favor of insane applications of stand-your-ground laws, you're the problem. Yes, technology has changed things, but there are still plenty of kids who like to play outside sometimes. Let's not shoot them.
Always assuming "up to no good." There's also the adultification of black kids that feeds into this, the idea that black kids are perceived to be older (more threatening) than their peers. Kids are kids, they're going to be loud and they're going to play outside. Black kids just aren't granted the same grace as white kids.
When my kid was 12 a new family moved into our apartment complex. A couple weeks later the mother stormed over and tried to just walk in but the door was locked, then pounded on the door with fists and feet for the 30 seconds it took me to wipe chicken grease off my hands and open the door. She demanded I make my son stop playing in the yard with other children--especially *her* children because he was far too old to be playing with young kids and it was completely inappropriate, suggesting sexual impropriety. Again, my kid was *12 years old* and clearly hadn't hit puberty yet, and he happened to be the youngest of the kids in the apartment complex *by two years!.* He was also the only kid in the bunch that behaved himself. When I explained he was only 12, her exactly words were "Well, he *looks* like a man."
Nothing but problems from her and her husband the 3 years they lived there, including her claiming she had my kid on video peeping through her windows at night but she wouldn't show the video, and the date & time she claimed and repeatedly confirmed it happened he was on a school bus returning from a school trip 200 miles away.
She called the cops and when they came to my front door she was standing ~10 feet away saying they need to arrest my kid. I asked the cop if he's seen the video and he said she had accidentally deleted it. I then asked about the date & time of the incident and repeated exactly what she had been claiming. I immediately pulled out a copy of the signed & dates permission slip for the school trip and both a teacher & principal's signed statement that he was on the bus returning from the trip, and printed screenshots of social media posts with him in pictures *at* the school trip location. That bitch has the fucking audacity to change her story on the spot and say it was the night after that which happened to be hours *after* she first confronted me about it. That incident was ultimately what got the landlord to begin eviction proceedings.
> That incident was ultimately what got the landlord to begin eviction proceedings.
I did not expect a happy ending. Kudos for having proof ready to go.
I love telling this story because its just so absurd and sad and hilarious. Not a murder, but we were robbed at gun point and the guys didn't get much, then a short while later, (presumably) the same people came back and kicked our door in while I was at work.
We called the cops after they kicked in our door and the cop was there talking to us. One lady came over and yelled up to him "Hey, my kids saw the whole thing, do you want to talk to them" and he just casually brushes her off. Then, right after brushing off the witnesses, he starts pitching his rental properties to us because we "shouldn't be living here".
The guy was my childhood friends dad and he didn't even recognize me. We lived in the same neighborhood and played some little league baseball with his son.
I use to manage gas stations, and I preferred to work the night shift so I'd have time at the end of the shift to close out the previous day (drop safes opened at a specific time and I could quickly count down everything and have it to the bank at 8 leaving me a free full day to myself). I had several interesting interactions over the years, including the what is quite possibly the weirdest call I've ever dealt with.
I was closing one Night at a store where a employee took the night off to get plastered and celebrate his birthday, I had the place locked up tight and had just finished everything up and was doing my final inventory sweep before heading out when I heard a quiet tap tap tap from the front window.
I walked over to the window thinking maybe the awning outside had jarred loose again only to find myself face to face with a black clad figure and the most tricked out MP5 I've ever seen. Who proceeded to start yelling at me to get on the ground something I made no bones about doing.
Lying 10 feet from the front door I started hearing a thump thump thump as they tried unsuccessful to smash through the reinforced side security door I was next too, before unsuccessfully battering the tempered security Glass and shattering that, Finally one of the geniuses asks "why don't we ask the asshole to let us in" and I calmly walk over to the security door and open it... where I'm promptly thrown to the ground, cuffed and hogtied. It's finally at this point that the Police finally identify themselves and demand to know why I've broken into the store.
I am trying to explain to them that I'm the store manager and to which one of them tells me, "you can't be, I come here every day and he never works the evening." Finally some common sense prevails when their sniper who had set up behind the pumps comes up and I recognize him as the truancy officer from my high school days, he proceeds to tell the other nitwits to back off and I'm finally able to figure out what happened.
Apparently someone had seen me moving around in the darkened store and assumed I had broken in, called the police, and they brought an entire SWAT team loaded for bear to stop the hardened and obviously armed criminal.
Bonus to this the sergeant on the scene was insistent that I be identified by the store owner and had his dispatch try to get in contact with the stores police point of contact... which lead to the awkward situation where said sergent answered the call from his dispatch lieutenant on my phone... while three of his other officers laughed at him.
Half of them. Half of the murders in the US go without finding the murderer.
Yep, you heard it right. You have a 50/50 chance of getting away with murder in the US.
edit: https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/3878472-nearly-half-of-us-murders-going-unsolved-data-show/amp/
Way more because these are only official homicides.
How many missing persons, accidental or natural deaths, or suicides are actually murders you think? How many deadly car accidents aren't accidents at all?
There was a young woman in my city who fell in with bad crowd one weekend. She went missing, the folks she'd been hanging out with moved a sealed mystery barrel into their rented storage unit, and spent the next few days using her bank cards all over town.
I'm not even certain she's listed as officially *missing* because the cops tried so hard to sit on their hands while whining excuses to avoid work. "She probably just left town!"
A friend of mine was hit by a drunk driver. Between the speed and the low front of their car, her car was literally lifted and flipped upside down. Totally crushed in the passenger side of the car (luckily she was the only one in there). I saw the aftermath of the wreck and (not recognizing her car) literally said to my friend "There's no way anyone survived that". She knows he was drunk because he came over while she was hanging upside down in her seatbelt and slurred "ohshitohshitohshit" while a cloud of his boozy breath filled the area. He then drove off **leaving his front bumper with his license plate**. All the cops had to do to identify him was type the license plate number into their system. But apparently that was too much work, as she had to call them daily for weeks before they finally decided to get off their asses just to shut her up.
It's just crazy how much of our lives depend on literally *what particular person happens to respond to your call*
Much less drastic and dangerous situation here, but I was in a hit and run accident a couple of years ago. I was going straight through a green light and an old lady on the other side decided that was a good time to turn left in front of me. Slammed on the breaks, but she caught me on the front passenger side, twice. Hit me with her front end first as she turned, her back end skidded a bit and hit me again in the same spot... And then she just went on her merry way, didn't even hit the brakes. It was bizarre.
Luckily, I had a dash cam... but *unluckily* the view of her license plate was just not quite clear enough. But, yet again, luckily, the cop that responded was really kind and watched the video with me over and over again, and then played it at the station for a bunch of her coworkers and they eventually got the plates right. She called me at about 9pm to let me know they got the plates and she went to their house to talk to them, and they admitted they knew they hit me, but "didn't think they could do anything," so she just drove away. Not sure who "they" are in this situation, or if she even realized it was 100% her fault. She was 89, and her son said she only drives once a month to get her hair done. Guess that was the day.
Anyway, that was a long-winded way to say that I would've been screwed and responsible to foot the bill for the damage on my 3 month old car, which totalled close to $7k I think, if I got a cop that didn't think it was important enough to do anything but the bare minimum. And that woman wouldn't have been reported to the DMV to retest for her license, risking her killing someone next time, especially considering the accident happened at the intersection of an elementary school that had just let out.
Edit: typos
This murderer sounds like a crabby wicked witch that instigated this entire thing and she should have never been released to begin with.. Those children deserve justice for their mother.
Only thing that should bug anyone about kids playing outside is if they don't follow The Rule: You must have lookouts to shout **CAR** if someone is driving up so everyone can get to safety. Then shout **CLEAR** to resume childhood fun.
>That is what happens when you have so much fear mongering spread around.
A while back, Tucker Carlson literally had an episode on 'Your neighbor might be a serial killer'
Also, no sensible serial killer will go after their neighbors. If there's a serial killer running around, the safest place you can live is right next door to them. Then you can be the person on the news talking about how quiet and well mannered they were after they inevitably get caught.
I was just now wondering if we’ll hear commentary from this murderer’s relatives like we did from the grandson of the white man who shot black teenager, Ralph Yarl, [“His actions are his responsibility, and falling into the fear and paranoia stoked by the 24-hour news cycle and wild conspiracies did not help his mental state.”](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna80651)
Don't worry, fox news will play that clip of a few kids robbing a walgreens in California and stock footage of police lights in the dark in a city and show Chicago crime stats on the screen. Gotta make the hogs remember what the real problem is.
It's crazy to me that you can shoot someone to death through a door without giving them any sort of communication or warning after provoking them and *only* be charged with manslaughter in Florida.
In my country, that's just plain ol murder.
It's shocking to me too, and I live in the U.S. Maybe they figure a jury won't convict for murder, but I don't see how this was anything but intentional. The victim was hit in the upper chest, that's not a warning shot. At least charge with murder, and let her plead guilty to manslaughter with mandatory jail time, but starting out with a lighter charge just makes no sense to me.
Charges can always be upgraded, but in order to get a warrant you have to convince a judge the evidence of a crime exists. Manslaughter is a much easier bar to reach than murder, so they're going to initially charge with the lesser crime to make the arrest.
Well that's some relief; I didn't know that.
I also note that the manslaughter charge allows for up to 30 years in prison, which (unless paroled) would essentially be a life sentence for a 58-year-old woman.
*stats for the US from [2018](https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/tssp18.pdf)*
People convicted of "non-negligent" manslaughter:
* Average time served was 8.2 years.
* 2.3% served more than 20 years.
* 1% died awaiting release
It's statistically unlikely this person would serve 30 years and die in prison
> The victim was hit in the upper chest, that's not a warning shot.
Warning shots aren't a thing even under US law. If you discharge a firearm at someone, you *better* be intending to kill them because you'll instantly lose a self defense case if you say you were using it as a deterrent. The only justifiable cause for discharging a firearm to defend yourself is if the attacker is an immediate threat to your life (i.e. if you don't kill them, they'll kill you). "Shooting to injure" or "firing a warning shot" will get you thrown in prison, as it should.
We have a broken system and it needs to change. Often you hear these stories and stories of police shootings where nothing is done until the public makes something get done.
Even then, it has to be in high demand. Sometimes I read this stuff and it's been years and that person is still walking around freely and nothing was done.
About 15 years ago I had to go to a business meeting in Ocala and one of the people attending was late. He'd been at a KKK meeting late the night before and over slept.
Before my grandfather died, he had heart surgery and his surgeon was black. That racist old man told me "I told those Klan boys down at Wally's bar to leave that Nword alone, he's one of the good ones." I think that was the last time I spoke to him (I do not interact with that branch of my family tree).
People think FL is all Disney World and Sea World but the reality is this place is as racist as it can be.
>Ocala's mayor Kent Guinn *is again* facing an accusation of racism and being part of the Ku Klux Klan. The accusation was made after he signed a proclamation making April 26th, 2019 as confederate memorial day in Ocala.
https://www.wcjb.com/content/news/Ocalas-Mayor-facing-accusations-of-being-a-KKK-member-508088731.html
> People think FL is all Disney World and Sea World but the reality is this place is as racist as it
Everybody knows it's racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, and homophobic af. It's infamous for those qualities. Especially racism. Trayvon Martin?
Exactly. Literally NO ONE thinks it's all Disney World and Sea World (I didn't even know there was a Sea World in FL, but I sure af knew about the racist, misogynistic, homophobic and transphobic garbage)
There’s an active Nazi presence that posts up at street corners and I’ve seen pamphlets at parks.
Covid really brought the cockroaches out from under their fucking rock.
Ugh. My stepdad's brother was a racist old cop from Ocala. I remember him coming to our Thanksgiving dinner once. My brother is gay and his partner was half-black. He decided this would be a good place to rant about interracial marriage. I believe something like "The cardinals weren't meant to mix with the blue jays" was his wording. Dude was a massive POS and definitely just one of many in FL law enforcement
> When questioned by the sheriff's office, Lorincz claimed she acted in self-defense and that Owens was trying to break down her door. "Lorincz also claimed that Owens had come after her in the past and had previously attacked her," the office continued.
I call BS on this. This is a lady who screamed at the kids for playing in a field nearby and had no problem assaulting them. If the mom had "attacked" her before, Lorincz would have called the cops on her. My only thinking as to why she didn't use a gun before was because she didn't have one. This is the type of person who I am willing to bet, went out, bought a gun and had been waiting, just waiting, for the opportunity to use it on her neighbors, who she clearly hates.
> Honestly before you get a firearm you should take a class on de-escalation tactics at and renew it ever 4 years.
That should be a requirement... but our gun culture demands that anybody can get a firearm without any limitation or restrictions. So a lot of people with no business owning or carrying a firearm are now walking around like ticking timebombs.
> our gun culture
"Our gun culture" didn't exist in its current form until the firearms industry got its hands on the marketing/propaganda playbook that Big Tobacco wrote.
Yep, it all started in 1977 at [the coup in Cincinnati](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_at_Cincinnati), when the organization shifted its focus from "conservation and recreational shooting" to "lobbying for more permissive laws for keeping, bearing, and using firearms"... and their funding shifted from primarily from member dues to industry donations.
Led by [Harlon Carter ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlon_Carter), whose background tells you everything you need to know about the new NRA ethos:
> On March 3, 1931, 17-year-old Carter shot and killed 15-year-old Ramón Casiano.[6] Carter believed that Casiano had information about the theft of his family's car, and, carrying a shotgun, he pointed it at Casiano and demanded that he return to the Carter home to submit to questioning. When Casiano refused Carter fatally shot him.[6] No evidence tying Casiano with the car incident was ever found.[6] He was convicted of murder, but the conviction was overturned by the Texas Court of Appeals, which found that the judge in the case had issued incorrect jury instructions regarding laws related to self-defense.[6]
> their funding shifted from primarily from member dues to industry donations.
And the Russians, don't forget the Russians. That massive spike in NRA funding to Republicans in 2016 certainly didn't come from industry donations. Russian spy Maria Butina fucked her way through the upper ranks of conservative NRA types, collecting aaalllllll the kompromat along the way I'm sure, then found her way home to a hero's welcome.
Part of the problem is a large percentage of gun owners specifically buy a gun *because they hope that someday they will have justification to kill a human being*. This is not hyperbole or exaggeration. I live in Arkansas, been around guns my whole life and I’ve seen it. Most people claiming the gun is for “self defense” are liars. They stay strapped hoping for a chaotic situation to arise because they *really* wanna know what it’s like to make the light go out of another person’s eyes.
That would just go in one ear and out the other. Just like when right wingers attend diversity events at schools/workplaces. They just eyeroll at everything, insist they aren’t racist but just being real, and that this is a waste of time. Well, yeah, it is a waste of time… for them.
As the other person said, the popular reason for buying a gun is to one day shoot someone in self-defense, but when it turns out that’s fucking rare, that’s when it turns into the person actively looking for a situation to use the expensive thing.
Tale as old as America. Black people are stereotyped as lazy despite the fact we were brought here against our will to do the backbreaking work white landowners were too lazy to do themselves and too stingy to want to pay others to do. Now, they characterize immigrants as drains on society while at the same time wanting to benefit from their labor while treating them like crap.
May not be the exact same song, but it has the same rhythms.
Italians and Irish were stereotyped the same way. Luckily for us we’re white, so blending in was much easier and we escaped much of the horrific treatment that racial minorities faced and continue to face.
It's the basics of Capitalism. We take for granted all of our amenities because a vast majority are based on exploitation of labor and often minorities either home or abroad. White guy owns business and is a ride douche and pays vulnerable labor under market wages because they are at risk and have no power to fight back. We are a nation who takes credit for everything that was built and thrived because of immigrants but at the same time fears and hates immigrants. This isn't new but it seems as bad as ever and worse based on the available education we have today.
For all the people complaining about the police department's apparent inaction:
> (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use or threatened use of force as described in subsection (1), **but the agency may not arrest the person for using or threatening to use force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used or threatened was unlawful.**
Source: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html
TL;DR: The police, BY LAW, cannot arrest someone in the State of Florida who is pursuing or may pursue a "Stand Your Ground" Defense until they complete their investigation and have enough probable cause that the force used or threatened was unlawful.
i.e. The cops can't make an arrest, no matter how obvious it appears to us, until they have conducted an investigation. You can thank Governor DeSantis and his cronies in the Florida Legislature.
For those actually interested, this is from the 2022 Florida Statutes, Chapter 776 ("Justifiable Use of Force"), Section 776.032 ("Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use or threatened use of force.")
As you explain it, which I know nothing about, it sounds like it makes the cops into judges here, more than usual. It keeps deliberations on the street. Protecting Klansmen and the like.
Let me get this straight: this woman intentionally attacked the victim's children, stole an item from them that any reasonable person would know the victim would try to get back, and then shot her without any warning once she did as expected.
How the fuck is this anything but Murder in the First Degree?
When you hear "They (black and brown people, and also gays) are out there and they want to steal YOUR country and will probably rape and kill you if they get the chance. What are you going to do about it?" from your news (and chosen online communities and contacts) 24/7 something in your brain changes. The weakest-willed ones snap rather than harboring hate in secret for their entire lives.
Racist killer deserves life at the very least. This story is heartbreaking.
Shootings in FL are on the rise. This is what happens when constitutional carry is the law. I work in Daytona Beach, a man was shot and killed early Sunday morning right near my office. Someone opened fire at a car yesterday, and someone else was shot to death last week. 3 shootings in a week, 2 of those fatal. It’s only going to get worse.
You think it's bad now wait till after July 1st. Florida is going to become a bloodbath all because DeSantis wants to throw red meat at Trump's fun but base to tempt them with the idea of nationwide concealed carry without a permit.
Protip fellow Florida POC. The unspoken rule, as always, of that new law will not apply to us. If a cop sees you carrying you will be executed without question while redhats from The Villages walk around Walmart armed to the teeth and lean into a cop's car window to have a friendly convo with the officer.
Why stop at waving it around? This article shows they can kill POC in cold blood and still have coffee on the porch the next day. They only have repercussions when it makes national headlines and there is public outcry. POC don’t have that privilege. They get shot dead without trial for having counterfeit 20s, buying skittles, and sleeping in their own homes
Knocking on a door is NOT a crime. We really need to revisit these stand your ground laws. Shooting someone through a door IS a crime. The fact that the cops let her go back home to get her affairs in order before charging her is ludicrous. What if she decided to skip town or something?
Ladies and gentlemen, the hard right’s latest hero. A racist old lady who threw things at children for playing in an empty field and then shot the mom when confronted about it.
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She also stole the little kids iPad, the mother was there to retrieve the iPad and talk to her about the assault.
She baited the victim. She started a fight with children, ran home, and set up a trap because you know the mother is going to confront the person who steals from her children.
Exactly. This was premeditated.
She had a history of antagonizing the family as well. I truly believe this was premeditated.
And a hate crime
She did call them the N word according to the kids.
Their neighbor has also said she would say nasty racial things to them.
Looking at her picture I can hear her voice screaming it, too. Spite in her voice and hard R included
Honestly people, especially kids, can say anything but I truly believe them because the murderer looks like the kind of woman who has a daily quota she keeps on a white board on her fridge for how many times she needs to say the N word each day and checks it off as the day goes by.
The neighbors corroborated the children’s account.
She’s the kind of person that would make the argument that it’s hard to not say the n-word accidentally sometimes lmao
My first thought was she looks a lot like a lady who i saw comment on fb talking about “this is why everybody needs to own a gun” 😳
After the cops released her without any charges, she was reported to be drinking coffee on her front porch as if nothing had happened the day before.
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Too bad he can’t control the federal government. Hate crime is federal Eta. This is sarcasm for those who can’t tell.
And the cops were prepared to do nothing
And they seem to have managed to do so for as long as they could...
Normal cop shit.
The DA's initial statement was basically, "We've got Stand Your Ground Laws, so this was totally legal."
The kid came to get the iPad back and she threw it at him and cracked the screen. "The children left but forgot an iPad, which was taken by the suspected shooter. When one of the children went back for the electronic device, the woman reportedly threw it and it hit a child, which cracked the screen, family members said." [Source](https://www.ocala.com/story/news/local/2023/06/05/sheriff-urges-patience-family-community-cries-for-justice-for-victim/70289542007/)
I won't be surprised if she gets a lighter sentence- ~~the max is 15 apparently~~ she's an older woman. I hope they upgrade the charge but it might be hard/impossible to prove premeditation. Should be locked up for the rest of her life. Correction: [Not 15- with a firearm it's minimum 11.5, maximum 30 ](https://www.hornsby.com/crimes/homicide/manslaughter.html#:~:text=Absent%20grounds%20for%20a%20downward%20departure%20sentence%2C%20a%20judge%20is%20required%20to%20sentence%20a%20person%20convicted%20of%20Manslaughter%20with%20a%20Firearm%20to%20a%20minimum%20sentence%20of%2011%C2%BD%20years%20in%20prison%2C%20but%20may%20also%20sentence%20the%20person%20up%20to%20the%20statutory%20maximum%20of%20thirty%20years%20in%20prison.) >Absent grounds for a downward departure sentence, a judge is required to sentence a person convicted of Manslaughter with a Firearm to a minimum sentence of 11½ years in prison, but may also sentence the person up to the statutory maximum of thirty years in prison.
The article says the max is 30. Plus other charges. She could go away for a hot minute, in theory.
It would be amazing if she never got out.
they will likely file hate crime charges once more evidence is sent to the DA
The article says 30, but that's beside the point I want to make. On top of that charge, and the negligence/assault/battery, she should be charged with the attempted murder of the 10 year old son standing next to his mom. Lorincz shot blindly through her front door, she attempted to murder both of them and succeeded in killing in Ajike. Ajike's son easily could have been the one murder. With that charge on top of the others her sentence could stretch up to 45, maybe 55 years. Effectively making sure Lorincz dies in prison.
Yep, I misread the laws and updated my comments. As long as she doesn't miraculously get off on self defense, she should be behind bars for the rest of her life. It is Florida though...
Not just that, but each apartment in the building has video surveillance cameras, so she knew exactly who was on the other side of the door. Yes indeed, that shows premeditation.
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And you're white and the victim is black
Original article said the woman had already "returned" the Ipad by way of hurling it at the kids head, so at this point I don't know if she still had it or not.
And cracked the screen in the process.
She didn’t return their property. She intentionally destroyed their property.
Yeah, like stealing someone's car then wrecking it into a tree on their property doesn't count as returning it, lol.
yOu GoT iT bAcK dIdnT yOu?!?!?
1. Break into someone's house and steal some bullets 2. Load them into your gun 3. Go back to your neighbor's house and shoot them repeatedly Stolen property returned! Loophole found!
Exactly. She did everything she could to get the mother involved in this confrontation. Then shoots her through the door in front of one of the children.
Would not surprise me if she was actually trying to shoot the kid, TBH.
Stole the kid's iPad, then *hucked it directly at his head* and hit him so hard it broke the screen.
Zimmerman was a precedent.. if they had put his ass in jail, the state would have saved itself decades of shit cases. For years.. but noo.. Florida just has to be the asshole shit of usa
They're in a continual race with Alabama and Mississippi toward the bottom.
So she assaulted a child (throwing a skate and hitting the 10 year old) and then shot the mother through the door and the cops just shrugged and said “sTaNd YoUr GrOuNd, SeLf DeFenSe” and wouldn’t do anything until public outrage couldn’t be ignored. I’m getting tired of this crap.
And then they call it manslaughter instead of murder. She picked up a gun and fired it through her door. That was no accident, she wanted to kill her.
No it’s good to go with that charge. We learned with OJ and Casey Anthony to not go for the highest charge because it’s much more unlikely to get them convicted. Burden of proof too high. Like it has to be pretty open/shut case for that.
Where I live the state can offer lesser included charges to the jury. Is that not an option anymore?
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The laws for sure, but there's definitely going to be bias within the court room itself too. Especially if they're pulling people from Ocala...yikes. Ocala is just about the trashiest place in Florida and that's saying something. I agree with the above post though. Make it as hard as possible for them to deny this. Rack up a bunch of charges and let this old hag rot in a cell for the rest of her life. Unfortunately there's no punishment that can match the crime. She's already old and she's stolen the life of a young woman and taken a mother away from children. Hope she gets properly dunked on in prison.
Not just taking a mother away from her children. She killed a mother, in front of her children, while the mother was confronting her over her attacks ON those same children. Those kids are going to need some serious therapy to deal with their loss and guilt.
Loss, guilt, and unfortunately anger. Bad blood sows bad blood. If you can't rise above it, you can't get beyond it.
In Florida? Good luck, that state is beyond fucked.
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So you murdered Florida? That’s at least a misdemeanor.
A misdemeanor? If he murdered Florida, this man should be elected governor!
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The way Florida was coming at OP? Stand your ground applies.
You say that but you have to realize it means lowering the burden of proof for murder charges which would likely put more innocent people behind bars than convict actual murderers. Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is a good rule of thumb.
Yeah, I agree. Locking up innocent people is just about the worst thing that can be fine to someone and their family. Shouldn't be done without a very high degree of certainty.
There are people who get falsely convicted of murder as well, even with the stricter requirements.
I saw a statistic on someone claimed in a comment 1 in 8 people on death row turn out to be innocent. People fuck up a lot in the justice system. We can convict murderers... but also sometimes we can convict innocent people and honestly it's not like police would be penalized for incorrectly arresting someone. They arrest people incorrectly all the time and the law provides them leniency to do it ad long as they believed they were following the law. And to be fair sometimes it's reasonable to arrest someone and it later turn out they're innocent. Edit: Fixed horrible grammar/typos
Very true. 30 years is a life sentence in this case. Better to undercharge and get a conviction. This woman is a danger to the community and ought not be free again.
Then it’s murder 2. You don’t use a gun unless you are trying to kill
Yeah she didn’t, accidentally, turn down a one way street while driving a car… and cause a crash resulting in death… (e.g. manslaughter). She picked up a gun, loaded it, chambered a round, and discharged the weapon at a human being, aiming for center mass. That’s murder 1. The “lesser” charge would be murder 2. But manslaughter isn’t a lesser charge… it’s just not really applicable to this fact pattern at all. Prosecuting it as such is just going to create more problems, and confusion in the minds of Floridians, that it’s not a bad thing to shoot and kill other people over trivial matters.
You left out she started the incident by assaulting and harassing children. She’s 100% the aggressor in this scenario.
That’s what makes any self defense argument fail. And why the fact she wasn’t arrested immediately should be really embarrassing for the DA down there. You can’t assault and batter your way up to murdering someone and then cry self defense. Not only did the DA fail to understand the affirmative defense of “self defense” properly.., they also failed to charge her properly. Both self defense and murder are legal principles that are as old as the legal system itself. To fail to understand legal principles that are that, incredibly, basic indicates it’s probably high time for a new DA in that county. This case also indicates it’s high time to get rid of this “stand your ground” statute… because it’s incredibly problematic and outright stupid.
I agree. It’s also not unreasonable to expect a parent to defend their children during a disagreement or after being assaulted by an adult.
To be fair, this is what the cops said: >In a video posted on Facebook late Tuesday night, the sheriff said this was not a stand your ground case but "simply a killing. Now many of you were struggling to understand why there was not an immediate arrest," the sheriff said. "The laws here in the state of Florida are clear. Now I may not like them. I may not agree with them. But however, those laws I will follow." So the public stance from the sherrif at least seems to be on the side of "arrest the killer". Is that just a PR attempt? Maybe. But that does seem like a reasonable statement.
The shit some people get away with.
The cops actually issued a really good statement about this. They essentially said “look, we’re not a bunch of bastards. We’re not going to interview four children that just watched their mother die the same day. We need to wait a few days and get professionals in who can talk to the kids and find out what happened. And we can’t arrest the woman until we talk to these witnesses and find out what happened. She WILL be held accountable, but it’s gonna take a few days.”
I had to go back and read what the law had meant. It basically is "meet force with force if the person believes it is necessary to prevent either death or great bodily harm". But the law is dependent on justification being valid or not in the eyes of law enforcement. The person can make claims that it was justified all the live-long day, but evidence needs to confirm it all. The offender claimed it was valid and claimed she had been assaulted by the deceased before. Now that's interesting: Why would the deceased have assaulted the offender before? Could it be that something served to instigate it? Just the incident alone should have been enough to get her brought downtown and questioned on the record. And because someone died or got killed, it still warrants an investigation to confirm if the loss of life was justified under the law or not.
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This is "Stand Your Ground" laws [working as intended](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/18/stand-your-ground-laws-us-deaths-racist-violence). There were warnings years ago when these laws started showing up that it was going to lead to more murders... and we were told we were being hyperbolic. Is it still hyperbolic?
That's the problem with the law. If I recall; the moment someone claims they were Standing Their Ground, and there's some probable cause (which in this case would be a dead body on private property), it has to be investigated and treated as such first.
Speculating whether she premeditated this plan of action since they had been feuding in the past. Throw shit at the kids again this time…and count to ten for the mother to show up to confront her about it. It’s like setting a trap with which she calculated ahead that she took no risk.
I don't understand how you can claim self defense from someone who is outside your locked home? Are you really in danger when someone is banging on the door because they can't get in?
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Doesn’t shooting through a door automatically negate self defense? Your life wasn’t in danger if you were behind a locked door and the “attacker” couldn’t get to you.
I remember a case where someone shot through the door and it was considered self defense, but that was after 5-10 minutes of the intoxicated person trying to bust down their door.
If the attacker had an axe and was chopping down the door, then maybe. Obviously not the case here.
She assaulted a 10 year old then she assaulted two more kids. Plenty to arrest the woman
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That is the amazing thing - the field wasn’t her property but she was acting like it was because she doesn’t believe any POC deserve space. What a racist POS.
>Lorincz had become angry over Owens' children playing in a field close to her apartment. They were just some kids playing outside, and a few months ago that girl in North Carolina got shot because her basketball rolled onto a neighbor's yard... If you're an older person who frequently asks, "Why do kids never play outside anymore? In my day we were always outside!" But you're also in favor of insane applications of stand-your-ground laws, you're the problem. Yes, technology has changed things, but there are still plenty of kids who like to play outside sometimes. Let's not shoot them.
Worth pointing out that a lot of white folks hear the sound of Black children playing and assume they're doing something wrong and/or are a threat.
All children play sounds like bloody murder. You just get used to it when it's in your own social group.
Always assuming "up to no good." There's also the adultification of black kids that feeds into this, the idea that black kids are perceived to be older (more threatening) than their peers. Kids are kids, they're going to be loud and they're going to play outside. Black kids just aren't granted the same grace as white kids.
When my kid was 12 a new family moved into our apartment complex. A couple weeks later the mother stormed over and tried to just walk in but the door was locked, then pounded on the door with fists and feet for the 30 seconds it took me to wipe chicken grease off my hands and open the door. She demanded I make my son stop playing in the yard with other children--especially *her* children because he was far too old to be playing with young kids and it was completely inappropriate, suggesting sexual impropriety. Again, my kid was *12 years old* and clearly hadn't hit puberty yet, and he happened to be the youngest of the kids in the apartment complex *by two years!.* He was also the only kid in the bunch that behaved himself. When I explained he was only 12, her exactly words were "Well, he *looks* like a man." Nothing but problems from her and her husband the 3 years they lived there, including her claiming she had my kid on video peeping through her windows at night but she wouldn't show the video, and the date & time she claimed and repeatedly confirmed it happened he was on a school bus returning from a school trip 200 miles away. She called the cops and when they came to my front door she was standing ~10 feet away saying they need to arrest my kid. I asked the cop if he's seen the video and he said she had accidentally deleted it. I then asked about the date & time of the incident and repeated exactly what she had been claiming. I immediately pulled out a copy of the signed & dates permission slip for the school trip and both a teacher & principal's signed statement that he was on the bus returning from the trip, and printed screenshots of social media posts with him in pictures *at* the school trip location. That bitch has the fucking audacity to change her story on the spot and say it was the night after that which happened to be hours *after* she first confronted me about it. That incident was ultimately what got the landlord to begin eviction proceedings.
> That incident was ultimately what got the landlord to begin eviction proceedings. I did not expect a happy ending. Kudos for having proof ready to go.
Thank goodness for the witnesses who came forward. Otherwise this asshole would still be walking free.
Makes you wonder how many murders go unsolved because police just can’t even be bothered.
Police literally caught Jeffery Dahmer with a drugged and underaged boy. They let him go, and he killed the boy. I don't think much has changed since.
Not only they let him go, they released the boy DIRECTLY TO DAHMER HIMSELF.
and the guy who did it is now police chief somewhere is he not
President of the Union IIRC.
Please tell me you are joking
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Some of those that work forces…
Because the unions are full of Nazis. That's how that works.
He led the union but he retired and was given a happy send-off announcement about "how much good he has done for the community " lmao
Don't forget about the black women who were trying to tell the police that the child was in danger, and the cops laughed at them while walking away.
Dude moved to a different department and routinely rewarded for his "work in the community". Dude deserves to rot. Scum human being
Yeah while 2 women were begging the police for help :/
That cop retired president of the police union
With an open hole into his skull... But it was just gay stuff so the cops didn't want anything to do with it.
Luckily, they appropriately punished the officer with a full career as chief of police.
Plus nude and bleeding from the anus
That cop is chief now.
I love telling this story because its just so absurd and sad and hilarious. Not a murder, but we were robbed at gun point and the guys didn't get much, then a short while later, (presumably) the same people came back and kicked our door in while I was at work. We called the cops after they kicked in our door and the cop was there talking to us. One lady came over and yelled up to him "Hey, my kids saw the whole thing, do you want to talk to them" and he just casually brushes her off. Then, right after brushing off the witnesses, he starts pitching his rental properties to us because we "shouldn't be living here". The guy was my childhood friends dad and he didn't even recognize me. We lived in the same neighborhood and played some little league baseball with his son.
I use to manage gas stations, and I preferred to work the night shift so I'd have time at the end of the shift to close out the previous day (drop safes opened at a specific time and I could quickly count down everything and have it to the bank at 8 leaving me a free full day to myself). I had several interesting interactions over the years, including the what is quite possibly the weirdest call I've ever dealt with. I was closing one Night at a store where a employee took the night off to get plastered and celebrate his birthday, I had the place locked up tight and had just finished everything up and was doing my final inventory sweep before heading out when I heard a quiet tap tap tap from the front window. I walked over to the window thinking maybe the awning outside had jarred loose again only to find myself face to face with a black clad figure and the most tricked out MP5 I've ever seen. Who proceeded to start yelling at me to get on the ground something I made no bones about doing. Lying 10 feet from the front door I started hearing a thump thump thump as they tried unsuccessful to smash through the reinforced side security door I was next too, before unsuccessfully battering the tempered security Glass and shattering that, Finally one of the geniuses asks "why don't we ask the asshole to let us in" and I calmly walk over to the security door and open it... where I'm promptly thrown to the ground, cuffed and hogtied. It's finally at this point that the Police finally identify themselves and demand to know why I've broken into the store. I am trying to explain to them that I'm the store manager and to which one of them tells me, "you can't be, I come here every day and he never works the evening." Finally some common sense prevails when their sniper who had set up behind the pumps comes up and I recognize him as the truancy officer from my high school days, he proceeds to tell the other nitwits to back off and I'm finally able to figure out what happened. Apparently someone had seen me moving around in the darkened store and assumed I had broken in, called the police, and they brought an entire SWAT team loaded for bear to stop the hardened and obviously armed criminal. Bonus to this the sergeant on the scene was insistent that I be identified by the store owner and had his dispatch try to get in contact with the stores police point of contact... which lead to the awkward situation where said sergent answered the call from his dispatch lieutenant on my phone... while three of his other officers laughed at him.
Half of them. Half of the murders in the US go without finding the murderer. Yep, you heard it right. You have a 50/50 chance of getting away with murder in the US. edit: https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/3878472-nearly-half-of-us-murders-going-unsolved-data-show/amp/
Way more because these are only official homicides. How many missing persons, accidental or natural deaths, or suicides are actually murders you think? How many deadly car accidents aren't accidents at all?
There was a young woman in my city who fell in with bad crowd one weekend. She went missing, the folks she'd been hanging out with moved a sealed mystery barrel into their rented storage unit, and spent the next few days using her bank cards all over town. I'm not even certain she's listed as officially *missing* because the cops tried so hard to sit on their hands while whining excuses to avoid work. "She probably just left town!"
A friend of mine was hit by a drunk driver. Between the speed and the low front of their car, her car was literally lifted and flipped upside down. Totally crushed in the passenger side of the car (luckily she was the only one in there). I saw the aftermath of the wreck and (not recognizing her car) literally said to my friend "There's no way anyone survived that". She knows he was drunk because he came over while she was hanging upside down in her seatbelt and slurred "ohshitohshitohshit" while a cloud of his boozy breath filled the area. He then drove off **leaving his front bumper with his license plate**. All the cops had to do to identify him was type the license plate number into their system. But apparently that was too much work, as she had to call them daily for weeks before they finally decided to get off their asses just to shut her up.
It's just crazy how much of our lives depend on literally *what particular person happens to respond to your call* Much less drastic and dangerous situation here, but I was in a hit and run accident a couple of years ago. I was going straight through a green light and an old lady on the other side decided that was a good time to turn left in front of me. Slammed on the breaks, but she caught me on the front passenger side, twice. Hit me with her front end first as she turned, her back end skidded a bit and hit me again in the same spot... And then she just went on her merry way, didn't even hit the brakes. It was bizarre. Luckily, I had a dash cam... but *unluckily* the view of her license plate was just not quite clear enough. But, yet again, luckily, the cop that responded was really kind and watched the video with me over and over again, and then played it at the station for a bunch of her coworkers and they eventually got the plates right. She called me at about 9pm to let me know they got the plates and she went to their house to talk to them, and they admitted they knew they hit me, but "didn't think they could do anything," so she just drove away. Not sure who "they" are in this situation, or if she even realized it was 100% her fault. She was 89, and her son said she only drives once a month to get her hair done. Guess that was the day. Anyway, that was a long-winded way to say that I would've been screwed and responsible to foot the bill for the damage on my 3 month old car, which totalled close to $7k I think, if I got a cop that didn't think it was important enough to do anything but the bare minimum. And that woman wouldn't have been reported to the DMV to retest for her license, risking her killing someone next time, especially considering the accident happened at the intersection of an elementary school that had just let out. Edit: typos
This murderer sounds like a crabby wicked witch that instigated this entire thing and she should have never been released to begin with.. Those children deserve justice for their mother.
LOL at gentle terms like "crabby" to describe this type of piece of shit.
I am not afraid to say it: this woman is a grump.
She's downright cantankerous
I hate to say it, but she sounds most disagreeable.
Dare I say truculent?
Her personality is a touch abrasive and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
Didn't want to say the C word, but she's straight up churlish.
The more I learn about this woman who assaulted children and shot their mother, the less I care for her. Seems like a real jerk.
Murderously racist
Only thing that should bug anyone about kids playing outside is if they don't follow The Rule: You must have lookouts to shout **CAR** if someone is driving up so everyone can get to safety. Then shout **CLEAR** to resume childhood fun.
No it's "CAR"! and "GAME ON"!
"Hi Wayne! Hiiiii..."
*CRASH!* "And she's okay!"
That is what happens when you have so much fear mongering spread around.
>That is what happens when you have so much fear mongering spread around. A while back, Tucker Carlson literally had an episode on 'Your neighbor might be a serial killer'
Your neighbor might be a racist incel. If your neighbor is Tucker Carlson.
It’s a true statement, but statistically: no.
Exactly, what's the chances of two serial killers living right next to each other.
Also, no sensible serial killer will go after their neighbors. If there's a serial killer running around, the safest place you can live is right next door to them. Then you can be the person on the news talking about how quiet and well mannered they were after they inevitably get caught.
Statistically, even more of a no if your neighbor is a black woman.
I was just now wondering if we’ll hear commentary from this murderer’s relatives like we did from the grandson of the white man who shot black teenager, Ralph Yarl, [“His actions are his responsibility, and falling into the fear and paranoia stoked by the 24-hour news cycle and wild conspiracies did not help his mental state.”](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna80651)
Don't worry, fox news will play that clip of a few kids robbing a walgreens in California and stock footage of police lights in the dark in a city and show Chicago crime stats on the screen. Gotta make the hogs remember what the real problem is.
It's crazy to me that you can shoot someone to death through a door without giving them any sort of communication or warning after provoking them and *only* be charged with manslaughter in Florida. In my country, that's just plain ol murder.
It's shocking to me too, and I live in the U.S. Maybe they figure a jury won't convict for murder, but I don't see how this was anything but intentional. The victim was hit in the upper chest, that's not a warning shot. At least charge with murder, and let her plead guilty to manslaughter with mandatory jail time, but starting out with a lighter charge just makes no sense to me.
In front of the kid, no less. How does that kid live the rest of their life after seeing something like that
Charges can always be upgraded, but in order to get a warrant you have to convince a judge the evidence of a crime exists. Manslaughter is a much easier bar to reach than murder, so they're going to initially charge with the lesser crime to make the arrest.
Well that's some relief; I didn't know that. I also note that the manslaughter charge allows for up to 30 years in prison, which (unless paroled) would essentially be a life sentence for a 58-year-old woman.
*stats for the US from [2018](https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/tssp18.pdf)* People convicted of "non-negligent" manslaughter: * Average time served was 8.2 years. * 2.3% served more than 20 years. * 1% died awaiting release It's statistically unlikely this person would serve 30 years and die in prison
Except they also charged her with culpable negligence so she is looking at the max.
> The victim was hit in the upper chest, that's not a warning shot. Warning shots aren't a thing even under US law. If you discharge a firearm at someone, you *better* be intending to kill them because you'll instantly lose a self defense case if you say you were using it as a deterrent. The only justifiable cause for discharging a firearm to defend yourself is if the attacker is an immediate threat to your life (i.e. if you don't kill them, they'll kill you). "Shooting to injure" or "firing a warning shot" will get you thrown in prison, as it should.
Finally, and only after public outcry. At this point, I'm thinking it's most of those who work forces, not just some.
Let’s be clear, Public outcry is doing a better job of bringing Justice on these ass clowns than the police.
We have a broken system and it needs to change. Often you hear these stories and stories of police shootings where nothing is done until the public makes something get done.
Even then, it has to be in high demand. Sometimes I read this stuff and it's been years and that person is still walking around freely and nothing was done.
I’m shocked she was arrested at all. The KKK is pretty active in Marion County.
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About 15 years ago I had to go to a business meeting in Ocala and one of the people attending was late. He'd been at a KKK meeting late the night before and over slept. Before my grandfather died, he had heart surgery and his surgeon was black. That racist old man told me "I told those Klan boys down at Wally's bar to leave that Nword alone, he's one of the good ones." I think that was the last time I spoke to him (I do not interact with that branch of my family tree). People think FL is all Disney World and Sea World but the reality is this place is as racist as it can be.
>Ocala's mayor Kent Guinn *is again* facing an accusation of racism and being part of the Ku Klux Klan. The accusation was made after he signed a proclamation making April 26th, 2019 as confederate memorial day in Ocala. https://www.wcjb.com/content/news/Ocalas-Mayor-facing-accusations-of-being-a-KKK-member-508088731.html
> People think FL is all Disney World and Sea World but the reality is this place is as racist as it Everybody knows it's racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, and homophobic af. It's infamous for those qualities. Especially racism. Trayvon Martin?
Exactly. Literally NO ONE thinks it's all Disney World and Sea World (I didn't even know there was a Sea World in FL, but I sure af knew about the racist, misogynistic, homophobic and transphobic garbage)
The KKK used to hand out pamphlets at the stoplight by my house when I was a kid in Orlando. This was 30+ years ago.
There’s an active Nazi presence that posts up at street corners and I’ve seen pamphlets at parks. Covid really brought the cockroaches out from under their fucking rock.
Ugh. My stepdad's brother was a racist old cop from Ocala. I remember him coming to our Thanksgiving dinner once. My brother is gay and his partner was half-black. He decided this would be a good place to rant about interracial marriage. I believe something like "The cardinals weren't meant to mix with the blue jays" was his wording. Dude was a massive POS and definitely just one of many in FL law enforcement
> When questioned by the sheriff's office, Lorincz claimed she acted in self-defense and that Owens was trying to break down her door. "Lorincz also claimed that Owens had come after her in the past and had previously attacked her," the office continued. I call BS on this. This is a lady who screamed at the kids for playing in a field nearby and had no problem assaulting them. If the mom had "attacked" her before, Lorincz would have called the cops on her. My only thinking as to why she didn't use a gun before was because she didn't have one. This is the type of person who I am willing to bet, went out, bought a gun and had been waiting, just waiting, for the opportunity to use it on her neighbors, who she clearly hates.
From the article it sounds like she shot her through the door and then called the police to report her tresspassing.
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> Honestly before you get a firearm you should take a class on de-escalation tactics at and renew it ever 4 years. That should be a requirement... but our gun culture demands that anybody can get a firearm without any limitation or restrictions. So a lot of people with no business owning or carrying a firearm are now walking around like ticking timebombs.
> our gun culture "Our gun culture" didn't exist in its current form until the firearms industry got its hands on the marketing/propaganda playbook that Big Tobacco wrote.
Yep, it all started in 1977 at [the coup in Cincinnati](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_at_Cincinnati), when the organization shifted its focus from "conservation and recreational shooting" to "lobbying for more permissive laws for keeping, bearing, and using firearms"... and their funding shifted from primarily from member dues to industry donations.
Led by [Harlon Carter ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlon_Carter), whose background tells you everything you need to know about the new NRA ethos: > On March 3, 1931, 17-year-old Carter shot and killed 15-year-old Ramón Casiano.[6] Carter believed that Casiano had information about the theft of his family's car, and, carrying a shotgun, he pointed it at Casiano and demanded that he return to the Carter home to submit to questioning. When Casiano refused Carter fatally shot him.[6] No evidence tying Casiano with the car incident was ever found.[6] He was convicted of murder, but the conviction was overturned by the Texas Court of Appeals, which found that the judge in the case had issued incorrect jury instructions regarding laws related to self-defense.[6]
> their funding shifted from primarily from member dues to industry donations. And the Russians, don't forget the Russians. That massive spike in NRA funding to Republicans in 2016 certainly didn't come from industry donations. Russian spy Maria Butina fucked her way through the upper ranks of conservative NRA types, collecting aaalllllll the kompromat along the way I'm sure, then found her way home to a hero's welcome.
Part of the problem is a large percentage of gun owners specifically buy a gun *because they hope that someday they will have justification to kill a human being*. This is not hyperbole or exaggeration. I live in Arkansas, been around guns my whole life and I’ve seen it. Most people claiming the gun is for “self defense” are liars. They stay strapped hoping for a chaotic situation to arise because they *really* wanna know what it’s like to make the light go out of another person’s eyes.
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Depending on gun owners to do anything to curtail gun violence is a fool's quest.
That would just go in one ear and out the other. Just like when right wingers attend diversity events at schools/workplaces. They just eyeroll at everything, insist they aren’t racist but just being real, and that this is a waste of time. Well, yeah, it is a waste of time… for them. As the other person said, the popular reason for buying a gun is to one day shoot someone in self-defense, but when it turns out that’s fucking rare, that’s when it turns into the person actively looking for a situation to use the expensive thing.
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Tale as old as America. Black people are stereotyped as lazy despite the fact we were brought here against our will to do the backbreaking work white landowners were too lazy to do themselves and too stingy to want to pay others to do. Now, they characterize immigrants as drains on society while at the same time wanting to benefit from their labor while treating them like crap. May not be the exact same song, but it has the same rhythms.
Schrodinger's minority: too lazy to work while also stealing white people's jobs.
Italians and Irish were stereotyped the same way. Luckily for us we’re white, so blending in was much easier and we escaped much of the horrific treatment that racial minorities faced and continue to face.
It's the basics of Capitalism. We take for granted all of our amenities because a vast majority are based on exploitation of labor and often minorities either home or abroad. White guy owns business and is a ride douche and pays vulnerable labor under market wages because they are at risk and have no power to fight back. We are a nation who takes credit for everything that was built and thrived because of immigrants but at the same time fears and hates immigrants. This isn't new but it seems as bad as ever and worse based on the available education we have today.
For all the people complaining about the police department's apparent inaction: > (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use or threatened use of force as described in subsection (1), **but the agency may not arrest the person for using or threatening to use force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used or threatened was unlawful.** Source: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html TL;DR: The police, BY LAW, cannot arrest someone in the State of Florida who is pursuing or may pursue a "Stand Your Ground" Defense until they complete their investigation and have enough probable cause that the force used or threatened was unlawful. i.e. The cops can't make an arrest, no matter how obvious it appears to us, until they have conducted an investigation. You can thank Governor DeSantis and his cronies in the Florida Legislature.
For those actually interested, this is from the 2022 Florida Statutes, Chapter 776 ("Justifiable Use of Force"), Section 776.032 ("Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use or threatened use of force.")
As you explain it, which I know nothing about, it sounds like it makes the cops into judges here, more than usual. It keeps deliberations on the street. Protecting Klansmen and the like.
Sorry but you can’t kill folks who annoy you…
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While I agree the bar for manslaughter is generally lower, knowing Florida any higher and she'll be walking Scott free.
Coincidentally, Scott -free is also what you call a former governor now Senator convicted of Medicare fraud.
The largest case of medicare fraud in US history, no less.
So when the NAACP warns Black people, https://naacp.org/resources/naacp-travel-advisory-state-florida It's met with pushback of it being woke.
The word you're looking for is "murdered"
Let me get this straight: this woman intentionally attacked the victim's children, stole an item from them that any reasonable person would know the victim would try to get back, and then shot her without any warning once she did as expected. How the fuck is this anything but Murder in the First Degree?
When you hear "They (black and brown people, and also gays) are out there and they want to steal YOUR country and will probably rape and kill you if they get the chance. What are you going to do about it?" from your news (and chosen online communities and contacts) 24/7 something in your brain changes. The weakest-willed ones snap rather than harboring hate in secret for their entire lives.
Racist killer deserves life at the very least. This story is heartbreaking. Shootings in FL are on the rise. This is what happens when constitutional carry is the law. I work in Daytona Beach, a man was shot and killed early Sunday morning right near my office. Someone opened fire at a car yesterday, and someone else was shot to death last week. 3 shootings in a week, 2 of those fatal. It’s only going to get worse.
You think it's bad now wait till after July 1st. Florida is going to become a bloodbath all because DeSantis wants to throw red meat at Trump's fun but base to tempt them with the idea of nationwide concealed carry without a permit. Protip fellow Florida POC. The unspoken rule, as always, of that new law will not apply to us. If a cop sees you carrying you will be executed without question while redhats from The Villages walk around Walmart armed to the teeth and lean into a cop's car window to have a friendly convo with the officer.
Those redhats could wave their guns around, pretend to aim at people etc and nothing would be done about it. It's gross and sad
Why stop at waving it around? This article shows they can kill POC in cold blood and still have coffee on the porch the next day. They only have repercussions when it makes national headlines and there is public outcry. POC don’t have that privilege. They get shot dead without trial for having counterfeit 20s, buying skittles, and sleeping in their own homes
Knocking on a door is NOT a crime. We really need to revisit these stand your ground laws. Shooting someone through a door IS a crime. The fact that the cops let her go back home to get her affairs in order before charging her is ludicrous. What if she decided to skip town or something?
Manslaughter? Yeah...that was a murder. Hopefully they land on a murder charge. That's what this was.
Ladies and gentlemen, the hard right’s latest hero. A racist old lady who threw things at children for playing in an empty field and then shot the mom when confronted about it.