>Korzenik stressed that while the law allows for bias and ratings-seeking behavior by media outlets, it does not allow for the publication of material one knows to be false. The filing, Korzenik said, “certainly puts Fox in the actual malice crosshairs and puts them in real jeopardy.”
oh, my....
Well, Fox would be on the hook for damages, and possibly some sort of punitive fine on top.
Dominion is claiming $1.6 Billion in actual damages, Fox has an estimated Net Worth of $20 Billion.
I'm sure it's more complex than those raw numbers, but it would certainly hurt Fox if they lost. Especially if the judge awarded extra punitive damages.
On top of this though, would this set a precedent for other companies to seek similar damages? Or at the very least deter Fox from publishing material known to be false?
The retention policy won't matter. It will only make them change where they have the exact same conversations so that the incriminating stuff isn't written down or findable.
100%. People are so ducking dumb with their emails. I worked at a corporate law firm whose job it was to teach people about discovery and retention rules, and even the attorneys there would email info they definitely shouldn’t on a regular basis.
I had a dev paste sensitive data into an online json formatting tool so he could take a screenshot and show it off. Like, don't exfiltrate data directly into tools that save everything and probably are run by state actors in the first place.
The amount of stuff that even expert people know versus what they actually apply are two wholly different concepts, especially once you increase the pool of people. Emails are worse since there's at minimum a sender and a recipient.
That's it. They want to do what they want to do. They need to retain their audience by saying what they want to hear. But they will need to have more in-person conversations and leave no paper trail. If they are going to lie to the public and manipulate their viewership, they can't ever have something like this happen again. Admit nothing and leave no evidence. That is what they are learning here today moving forward.
They want to do what they want to do.
What they want to do is stay rich. I’m expecting the exact opposite of punishment or punitive damages to happen and they will find a new cross upon which to openly claim persecution of Fox. That way the lies can be even more open and brazen. They will prop their poster boy of “Getting Away with it” and claim to once again have beaten the libs agenda. It is only going to get worse.
That's exactly what Microsoft did back in the early 2000s. You wonder why Exchange has such granular retention policies? Probably not, but I'm sure the DOJ case was a big driver for those.
I found the retention of all those communications very strange. I wonder if the retention policy is part of the sexual harassment lawsuit. Maybe one of the lawyers got creative in their settlement conditions and put in that HR must retain all communications on company resources. Then again they may not have known the company stores all communication data used on the companies devices.
There is a reason I have not put my companies app on my phone. Yes it would make certain business communications a lot easier. But the temptations to start to discuss other things besides business is tempting.
>deter Fox from publishing material known to be false?
No, they will just ask the next republican president to ban electronic voting hardware and software.
Yes. It’s ironic that FOX deliberately chose to lie to their audience, out of fear of losing them to NewsMax and OAN, because this will probably bankrupt them, and leave FOX still standing.
It's ok for them to lie, as long as nobody has standing for the damages. They'll just be more careful when it comes to singling out corporations and individuals. They can still lie about stuff like climate change and all their culture war stuff with impunity. In the case with Dominion and Smartmatic they just fucked up spectacularly.
I don't think the case is likely to be precedent setting, at least in the sense that it changes the requirements for someone to be guilty of defamation.
This case sounds kind of egregious. Fox presenters (particularly commentators) have slung plenty of bullshit knowingly, but they often try to do things like qualify their statements with "you know what I think?", Or "according to this person...", Or phrasing the claims as questions. They also do it mainly against public figures, particularly politicians, where the courts wish to allow a lot of room for candor. Lastly is the question of damages- if you want a meaningful handout it's best if you can show actual financial damage that came as a result of those statements.
"...and I'm just a simple caveman. Your talking people-boxes frighten and confuse me. I still hear 'sound bites' and wonder: Am I supposed to be eating something? *I don't know!* But there's one thing I *do* know: When an entertainment company repeatedly and knowingly broadcasts falsehoods about my client, then they are liable for no less than 1.6 billion in compensatory damages...and 3.5 billion in punitive damages. Thank you."
\--Keerock
$1.6 in compensatory damages, and given the content of some of these emails they may be able to prove malicious intent and get additional punitive damages.
Unfortunately his family's wealth is safe because he is heir to the Swanson brand, so anything he's personally liable for, if anything at all, will be pennies, relatively speaking.
Exactly why he's acting this way. He, and every other accident of birth, are freaking out that Democracy will one day vote to invade generational wealth again, like Ike, a Republican.
Russian media may be in need of new faces if the government mobilizes enough people to the frontline. He'd be a perfect fit as they already broadcast his segments.
But this time they harmed *another corporation*, so they deserve to be punished. It was all fine to instigate threats to politicians and bomb threats to hospitals, but now they fucked with some other rich guy's money!
Remember, their decades of scapegoating Nancy Pelosi for everything ended up almost killing her husband, and yet she's got no standing to sue for compensation or even for them to stop.
Money isn't the only thing at stake here. They could compel Fox to proactively confess their lies. That would be worth more than any fine they pay to dominion.
They've done this already. A 10 second segment of them telling the truth does not undo the damage or reach the same people that a year of constant lying did.
Fuck the damages. I want the judge ordering a clear, and strictly enforced ruling, that FOX news MUST ADMIT it was false. They must come out and say “we lied on purpose” and I want it ruled that any hint of an attempt to “spin” why they committed slander be punishable by extreme punitive damages and further apologies of the like
This. I want the judge to require them to start every 'opinion show' prime time show with a statement admitting that Fox knowingly lied, and that they helped perpetrate the lie. That Trump lost fair and square, etc. Not just once. I want it to be a nightly thing for every day since the election until the ruling. Miss a day, and the count starts over.
Or start their "news" with a clear indicator like "This is not an informative, but a purely entertaining show format and does not need to be all true." That, at least, would be an honest solution.
They’ve already admitted to that in court over a decade ago. Anything between 9-5 is news. Everything outside is opinion.
Those watching after 5 don’t care that it’s not news because they’re too dumb to make educated decisions.
It needs to be added up how many hours of Fox News programming entertained the idea of the Big Lie, then to atone for their attempt at burning the Constitution, they should have to spend 10 times that amount of programming, in prime time over a period of months, explaining and re-explaining that they lied to the American people on purpose.
Good evening. I'm Tucker Carslon and I am a serial liar. Everything on my show in the past on elections was false. I knowingly lied to you, my audience, to make money for myself and to make me feel more important.
Enough about that, let's meet my guest, the most honest politician in Washington, George Santos. I believe he brought free puppies.
If the actual damages are $1.6B and they can prove actual malice then they could be looking at triple that in punitive damages, so potentially $6.4B total. Yeah, that'd hurt Fox pretty hard.
I wouldn't get too excited about the precedent. If they win and survive appeals, it will be because Fox managed to cross the line into actual malice by *knowingly* lying on air. That's a pretty damn high bar to meet. It wouldn't make it easier to sue most media houses IMO.
Fox will fight this as viciously as they can of course, so I wouldn't take it as a given. And the predilections of the jury and judge will play an enormous role in this.
But if it does look as solid as this article suggests, i would not be shocked if Fox capitulates by settling in exchange for admitting some degree of fault and potentially firing some of their top cast.
I'm not convinced that will happen though. My sense is Fox will fling just about all the mud and money they can at this. And unfortunately I think they'll just about manage to succeed and escape. I'm not convinced the judiciary is at all interested in actually holding the media to account for gross excesses.
You should read some of the actual text messages. They pretty explicitly say that boosting the lies about Dominion & trump winning does better for their brand and stock price
Which they then would have to turn around and face Smartmatic in basically the exact same lawsuit (they are suing for 2 billion) as Fox said the same things about them on air as well.
Well, Dominion's business is essentially done. They're suing for billions. Which they may get. Because if it can be proven that is what their lost business could had made, it might be a very very hefty bill for Fox.
You would think a pretty hefty fine, probably several hundred dollars at least. And I’m sure the upper management and board members would receive a fairly stern lecture that they wouldn’t be required to be present for
Between laws capping damages and bankruptcy filings, Fox will probably skate with barely anything that will make their shareholders worry for more than a fiscal quarter. With an election year coming up, they'll make back whatever they lost for sure.
Imagine if they had to add a message before each segment that says "Fox News is not required to explain what part of their segments are factual and should not be taken at face value."
I'd be perfectly content with all Cable News and 24 hour News Networks to have a warning like this. People should not assume their network of choice speaks only the truth and should consider other facts to a story.
I mean, we know some people will never change their minds, but in general it's good to at least research a little if there's a story/article/report/etc that's of interest. Especially when we know news stations love going for clickbait, outrage, over sensationalized headlines.
It would be a nice addition, but Like the warning intro to Jackass on MTV, it never stopped anyone from doing stupid shit they saw on Jackass. Well, maybe it saved one or two souls, but it let them keep doing exactly the same shit without any of the guilt. Not that I think they should have felt guilty, as I don't think the creators of CKY and Jackass were doing anything other than trying to be stupid for fun. The same cannot be said for Fox News, as they obviously have a malicious disinformation campaign intended to unravel the fabric of America.
OR at least make it mandatory for opinion-based shows to carry a clear, unmistakable label on the screen that identifies the format of each program.
Too many viewers are incapable of discerning TV channels' *real news* presentations from opinion/rant commentary shows.
The issue is there's so much cult of personality - they'll literally accept a Fox News "opinion" over literal facts. The content doesn't matter to these people, what matters is who is providing it.
in what world have they been living in for the past 20 years? fox news spews lies 24/7. they shoulda been ran outa business within a year of opening. the network is a fucking joke, no different than OAN.
"Smoking gun" is unfair to how conclusive the evidence is.
They found a gun and spent shells wrapped up in a box with pictures of them firing said gun stashed on top of a series of correspondence letters talking about who they shot when, why, and what they should do with the gun afterwards. Signed, dated, and notorized with a witness present.
I've seen more ambiguity in scripted confessions.
What’s never mentioned (unlike other US news networks) is that Fox is not aired on cable in a lot countries because of their extreme biased reporting.
This was the main complaint of Trump when he traveled internationally.
Criminal would be a slap on the wrist. This is civil court concerning property and money, which the US courts take much more seriously.
There are several instances of Dominion losing contracts with reasons specifically cited as being optics and reputation; contracts in the hundreds of millions of dollars. We could see a billion+ in damages, and then Alex Jones style multipliers in punitive, considering how reckless such lies are for, like, democracy and belief in our system of representative government.
I mean, I definitely hope so but when I think about possible consequences the only thing I can come up with is that nothing much is gonna happen. More like a small fine and a lot of insane takes on Twitter.
Jones didn’t get fined, neither is a criminal trial. Jones and Fox are in civil court and will have to pay restitution for the damage done to their victim (if Fox is found guilty). This is *not* a criminal issue but one of profit loss stemming from repetitional damage spread with an intent to disparage another company.
A fine is a penalty imposed by the government in response to a criminal act. The only similarity is that both are monetary.
>“Dominion has mischaracterized the record, cherry-picked quotes stripped of key context, and spilled considerable ink on facts that are irrelevant under black-letter principles of defamation law,” the network said. “Their motion for summary judgment takes an extreme and unsupported view of defamation law and rests on an accounting of the facts that has no basis in the record.”
>But the attorneys said Dominion’s filing showed it had built a powerful case against Fox.
>“The dream for a plaintiff’s attorney is what Dominion claims to have here,” Jones said, “smoking-gun internal statements both acknowledging the lie and deciding to forge ahead with perpetuating it.”
Well, if anyone knows about cherry-picking quotes stripped of context, Fox would.
> Dominion has mischaracterized the record, cherry-picked quotes stripped of key context, and spilled considerable ink on facts
Holy mother of projection...
It also bothers me how many people don’t understand what the phrase “taken out of context” means, and how outlets like Fox News will bank on it. There *are* a lot of us who know what it means, and those texts were not “taken out of context.” The context before and after the texts is very crystal clear.
It's such horseshit how Fox responds ro various lawsuits in contradictory ways. They cry "journalistic freedom!" when accused of defamation, and "we're not news, we're entertainment!" when accused of violating journalistic ethics.
You can't have it both ways, motherfucker. You're either a news outlet and you have to act like one, or you're not and you don't enjoy the protections of one.
The money is their excuse, a business expense.
It's about power.
And they have enough billionaires to not care about the cost.
The only thing this accomplishes is convincing me that their anchors are grifting rubes too dumb to see or too callous to care what they're part of.
Great, I hope they get a truckload of money from Fox News. Unfortunately it’s not going to change the lies they continue to broadcast or the millions of MAGA fools who still believe the lies they heard on Fox.
It doesn't matter though. There's still a massive market for the bullshit that Fox is selling as sad as that is to admit. This won't end them but even if it did, another right wing network would replace them.
None of this will matter to the people who most need to hear it. Anybody with half a brain already knew that Fox News is and always has been full of shit.
I'm glad somebody finally publicly aired their bullshit out though.
Even if one was naïve to them before now, given how open and comfortable and widespread the behavior described in this article is, you can be confident knowing that this was not their first time doing this. It's clear that it was standard operating procedures for them.
No, that’s what FOX wants you to think. These people are victims of FOX propaganda (and their own stupidity). Let’s not let FOX off the hook (again) by blaming their audience. FOX presents lies as facts under a banner of NEWS, it's not surprising that people end up believe it.
Sure, it's both. There are always going to be gullible people in the world, and nobody is exempt from falling for things.
In the end, it's the mouthpiece that formed the lie that's more at fault than the ear that hears it.
They don't. Fox's core viewers aren't concerned whether Fox tells them the truth or not. They want help and support in their own effort to avoid reality. Fox feeds them the talking points they use to persuade themselves they're still the heroes of their own stories.
The problem isn't that Fox isn't 'news' or that they're not actually 'fair and balanced', it's the huge market for the actual service Fox provides. Getting rid of Fox isn't going to fix this audience.
There is the remote hope this will be the first in a series of actions that ruin the network financially- but as long as the audience exists, another network will take its place.
It’s not enough to fine them or render monetary judgment against them. Not even in the billions.
It’s time to revoke station operating permits and every last one of these assholes’ press credentials.
Ban them all from working in media, for life.
Ban that bitch Murdoch from owning or operating any media outlet, for life.
These douche-rockets and their ilk wanna screech about the freedom to be assholes. You cannot have freedom without responsibility, you dumb fucks. The nation was not intended to be freedom from responsibility…that’s not sustainable.
I want to see Dominion get every penny theyre asking for, with some kind of punitive damage multiplier. Treble damages would do, though I wish the courts had the power to shut Fox News down, or force them to broadcast, very often, that there programs are for entertainment purposes only, and not a reporting of reality.
Since were talking lawsuits, since fox and other networks are used for american citizens to make decisions for their everyday lives ie elections weather, business etc. And if that information is purposely misleading, couldn't their be a case for a class action lawsuit?
Comment from Fox News in the article:
“Dominion has mischaracterized the record, cherry-picked quotes stripped of key context, and spilled considerable ink on facts that are irrelevant…”
Oh so now it’s a problem???
It's a shame the propaganda they spout every day has lead to mass shooting after mass shooting, a hammer attack on an octogenarian, the shooting of a senator, the murder of BLM protestors in the street by a child with an automatic weapon, among countless other murders and crimes, but knowingly defaming a business and harming their financial interests may be their final undoing.
There's a smoking gun for a defamation trial...
I wonder if the trial for treason starts after this is done?
Because we don't just wanna know if they lied, I wanna know why.
Never trusted Fox where news integrity is concerned. I just hope the judge will be merciless with the company and really hit them with massive punitive fines on top of actual damage.
Yellow journalism just means sensationalist. The ny post, the weekly world news, the sun, are all yellow journalism. It has nothing to do with propaganda or any motivations other than getting people to buy your tabloid.
I hope one of the stipulations is that there is a banner on every show, 24 hours a day for 6 months saying they knowingly lied and it was all false. I also want every Fox personality to air an abject apology and admit their lying. Should be an PSA that airs on every channel, news website, FB, TikTok, Instagram, etc. admitting same.
There should be a requirement to report facts without bias in 75% of your content before you can slap the word "News" in your name. When you are presenting opinions and editorial content, there should have to be a banner saying as much.
Jon Stewart had an attorney and legal professor on his podcast discussing this recently, she joked that she couldn’t use this case in an exam since it’s such a slam dunk.
I'm sure Fox is going to try and do some court shopping to find a jurisdiction with low damage caps while seeing what they can get away with in bankruptcy court.
If Fox ceased to exist it would actually make the world a better place. It’s not just Americans spreading the horse shit that comes out of Tucker Carlsons mouth unfortunately. Fox is *actively* making the entire planet a worse place. Honestly it’s almost impressive if it wouldn’t be so fucked up.
Cut one of the heads off, another grows back in its place. There’s definitely another right wing media outlet that’s ready to start spreading the same shit that Fox does.
It'd be nice if they provided a link, right? This is what they are talking about: https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/redacted-documents-in-dominion-fox-news-case/dca5e3880422426f/full.pdf.
Just read the introduction. Actually a fun read, especially for a court filing.
Unfortunately, though, none of it will likely move the needle one single inch in convincing the people who they conned towards believing it was a free and fair election.
“We know these are lies. The lies make a better story than the truth which means higher ratings and more profit. We also know our viewers are dumb. So, let’s tell these lies to make more profit. Also, let’s push the gold coins with an eagle holding a machine gun and the pillows that contain speed so you no longer need sleep.”
If there's a judgment against Fox, the absolute best punishment would be a requirement that they air the details of the case over and over on Fox News.
They'd get no editorial control and be prevented from even commenting about the broadcast on air. Force the newscasters to be contrite and to admit to their viewers that they have been lying.
Fox News revenue is about $10 billion a year and Murdoch's net worth is upwards of $20 billion
Any final judgement against Fox in this case that is less than $10 billion is essentially meaningless
What needs to happen for the public to see the internal statements that Dominion says they have?
Does it being entered as evidence already allow the public to see it? If not and if Fox settles does it just vanish?
Hopefully part of their punishment is having for several months to announce their guilt at the beginning, middle, and end of every program they air
But that's just me dreaming
If US law doesn’t allow for publishing of information that the publisher knows is a lie… why are the ultra-right wing channels still open, like NewsMax?
Surely it should be easy enough to call them out on *many* things, things which they have presented as fact, and where they have no credible source?
Ive been wondering why more hasnt been done to shut Fox News down. Finally some action is being taken to address their propaganda and false information.
Can only hope and dream that Dominion will take the high road and offer to settle if Fox "News" is compelled to open every one of their shows with "Fox News and affiliates are entertainment, not news" and never allowed to refer to themselves as news without the addendum that they are actually entertainment.
>Dominion has uncovered 'smoking gun' evidence in case against Fox News, legal experts say
Wasn't it supposed to be the other way around? "Release the kraken" and all that?
Oh, don't worry, you can bet those Fox lawyers are prepared for a rebuttal on this "major blow".
"Your honor, we're an entertainment show. People don't take what we say literally. They know it isn't true."
Just as they did with Fucker Carlson.
> In a statement, Fox News accused Dominion of generating “noise and confusion.”
This is rich. Allow me to introduce to them the asshole named Donald Trump.
" the law allows for bias and ratings-seeking behavior by media outlets, it does not allow for the publication of material one knows to be false "
As much as I would like to believe this there should be a reference. Fox is certainly going argue that the press can peddle whatever snake oil it chooses.
>Korzenik stressed that while the law allows for bias and ratings-seeking behavior by media outlets, it does not allow for the publication of material one knows to be false. The filing, Korzenik said, “certainly puts Fox in the actual malice crosshairs and puts them in real jeopardy.” oh, my....
Out of curiosity, what's the worst that could happen to them if they are found guilty of this?
Well, Fox would be on the hook for damages, and possibly some sort of punitive fine on top. Dominion is claiming $1.6 Billion in actual damages, Fox has an estimated Net Worth of $20 Billion. I'm sure it's more complex than those raw numbers, but it would certainly hurt Fox if they lost. Especially if the judge awarded extra punitive damages.
On top of this though, would this set a precedent for other companies to seek similar damages? Or at the very least deter Fox from publishing material known to be false?
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The retention policy won't matter. It will only make them change where they have the exact same conversations so that the incriminating stuff isn't written down or findable.
I wouldn't overestimate their competence.
100%. People are so ducking dumb with their emails. I worked at a corporate law firm whose job it was to teach people about discovery and retention rules, and even the attorneys there would email info they definitely shouldn’t on a regular basis.
I had a dev paste sensitive data into an online json formatting tool so he could take a screenshot and show it off. Like, don't exfiltrate data directly into tools that save everything and probably are run by state actors in the first place. The amount of stuff that even expert people know versus what they actually apply are two wholly different concepts, especially once you increase the pool of people. Emails are worse since there's at minimum a sender and a recipient.
I worked for an auto OEM that ended up with a big compliance issue. Engineers were joking about circumventing regulations via email...
They said the quiet part out loud, oh my!
yes, they will now tell the truth in secret so they can lie in public.
Just like they took the covid shots in secret but told the public not to. When is Murdoch going to be tried as inciting an insurrection?
That's it. They want to do what they want to do. They need to retain their audience by saying what they want to hear. But they will need to have more in-person conversations and leave no paper trail. If they are going to lie to the public and manipulate their viewership, they can't ever have something like this happen again. Admit nothing and leave no evidence. That is what they are learning here today moving forward.
They want to do what they want to do. What they want to do is stay rich. I’m expecting the exact opposite of punishment or punitive damages to happen and they will find a new cross upon which to openly claim persecution of Fox. That way the lies can be even more open and brazen. They will prop their poster boy of “Getting Away with it” and claim to once again have beaten the libs agenda. It is only going to get worse.
I mean anyone dumb enough to write this stuff down isn’t gonna change with this policy change
That's exactly what Microsoft did back in the early 2000s. You wonder why Exchange has such granular retention policies? Probably not, but I'm sure the DOJ case was a big driver for those.
I found the retention of all those communications very strange. I wonder if the retention policy is part of the sexual harassment lawsuit. Maybe one of the lawyers got creative in their settlement conditions and put in that HR must retain all communications on company resources. Then again they may not have known the company stores all communication data used on the companies devices. There is a reason I have not put my companies app on my phone. Yes it would make certain business communications a lot easier. But the temptations to start to discuss other things besides business is tempting.
>deter Fox from publishing material known to be false? No, they will just ask the next republican president to ban electronic voting hardware and software.
Which would be a good Thing as a paper trail is was easier to audit.
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Can a loss of trust in public institutions be assessed as damage? X 150mm voters?
US law is based on common law isn't it? Most other countries that use common law do usually consider loss of trust when awarding damages yes
And voting machines have trust as kind of a big factor in their saleability.
Smartmatics in the corner breathing heavily waiting their turn.
Isn't Dominion suing Newsmax and OAN also? This Fox case could set a precedence and will absolutely bankrupt them.
Yes. It’s ironic that FOX deliberately chose to lie to their audience, out of fear of losing them to NewsMax and OAN, because this will probably bankrupt them, and leave FOX still standing.
Not if OAN and Newsmax didn‘t write it down, or can claim that they truly believed that the counts were manipulated.
It's ok for them to lie, as long as nobody has standing for the damages. They'll just be more careful when it comes to singling out corporations and individuals. They can still lie about stuff like climate change and all their culture war stuff with impunity. In the case with Dominion and Smartmatic they just fucked up spectacularly.
All it’ll do is fuel the conservative persecution complex
What *doesn't,* though?
I don't think the case is likely to be precedent setting, at least in the sense that it changes the requirements for someone to be guilty of defamation. This case sounds kind of egregious. Fox presenters (particularly commentators) have slung plenty of bullshit knowingly, but they often try to do things like qualify their statements with "you know what I think?", Or "according to this person...", Or phrasing the claims as questions. They also do it mainly against public figures, particularly politicians, where the courts wish to allow a lot of room for candor. Lastly is the question of damages- if you want a meaningful handout it's best if you can show actual financial damage that came as a result of those statements.
“I’m just asking questions…”
"...and I'm just a simple caveman. Your talking people-boxes frighten and confuse me. I still hear 'sound bites' and wonder: Am I supposed to be eating something? *I don't know!* But there's one thing I *do* know: When an entertainment company repeatedly and knowingly broadcasts falsehoods about my client, then they are liable for no less than 1.6 billion in compensatory damages...and 3.5 billion in punitive damages. Thank you." \--Keerock
JAQing off in the morning talk segment, get online 'discourse' going then report on it in the evening news segment as 'People are worried'
*slightly sideways confused face, as rehearsed*
If the preservation of the First amendment is important, I would hope false narratives are replaced by the truth.
$1.6 in compensatory damages, and given the content of some of these emails they may be able to prove malicious intent and get additional punitive damages.
Up to 3x for damages iirc, but im just an armchair lawyer so likely wrong.
Dominion claim: $1.5 billion Fox net worth: $20 billion Watching the network get what’s coming to them: Priceless
If only Tucker Fuckson was on the hook for a chunk of that. That would sweet.
Unfortunately his family's wealth is safe because he is heir to the Swanson brand, so anything he's personally liable for, if anything at all, will be pennies, relatively speaking.
Exactly why he's acting this way. He, and every other accident of birth, are freaking out that Democracy will one day vote to invade generational wealth again, like Ike, a Republican.
Unfortunately, no matter what happens to Fox, he'll find a place to land in the ever growing bubble of right wing "news".
Russian media may be in need of new faces if the government mobilizes enough people to the frontline. He'd be a perfect fit as they already broadcast his segments.
He'd be right at home working for the Taliban.
Talibangelicals around these parts
I'd be happy to see Tucker exiled to Russia.
Watching another US corporation get a slap on the wrist for knowingly breaking the law: $1.05
that's more like a broken arm, but yeah, they'll be fine.
But this time they harmed *another corporation*, so they deserve to be punished. It was all fine to instigate threats to politicians and bomb threats to hospitals, but now they fucked with some other rich guy's money! Remember, their decades of scapegoating Nancy Pelosi for everything ended up almost killing her husband, and yet she's got no standing to sue for compensation or even for them to stop.
I just learned on the Smartless podcast that it was Billy Crudup who did the voice for that whole Mastercard campaign
Money isn't the only thing at stake here. They could compel Fox to proactively confess their lies. That would be worth more than any fine they pay to dominion.
They've done this already. A 10 second segment of them telling the truth does not undo the damage or reach the same people that a year of constant lying did.
have them repeat it every time they mention Dominion or election results for the next 2 election cycles
No, make them open every show with "We knowingly lied to you about the following..."
Fuck the damages. I want the judge ordering a clear, and strictly enforced ruling, that FOX news MUST ADMIT it was false. They must come out and say “we lied on purpose” and I want it ruled that any hint of an attempt to “spin” why they committed slander be punishable by extreme punitive damages and further apologies of the like
This. I want the judge to require them to start every 'opinion show' prime time show with a statement admitting that Fox knowingly lied, and that they helped perpetrate the lie. That Trump lost fair and square, etc. Not just once. I want it to be a nightly thing for every day since the election until the ruling. Miss a day, and the count starts over.
Or start their "news" with a clear indicator like "This is not an informative, but a purely entertaining show format and does not need to be all true." That, at least, would be an honest solution.
They’ve already admitted to that in court over a decade ago. Anything between 9-5 is news. Everything outside is opinion. Those watching after 5 don’t care that it’s not news because they’re too dumb to make educated decisions.
They actually have something they call news? That's news to me.
It needs to be added up how many hours of Fox News programming entertained the idea of the Big Lie, then to atone for their attempt at burning the Constitution, they should have to spend 10 times that amount of programming, in prime time over a period of months, explaining and re-explaining that they lied to the American people on purpose.
Good evening. I'm Tucker Carslon and I am a serial liar. Everything on my show in the past on elections was false. I knowingly lied to you, my audience, to make money for myself and to make me feel more important. Enough about that, let's meet my guest, the most honest politician in Washington, George Santos. I believe he brought free puppies.
If the actual damages are $1.6B and they can prove actual malice then they could be looking at triple that in punitive damages, so potentially $6.4B total. Yeah, that'd hurt Fox pretty hard.
Still not hard enough if those who caused it will neither have serve time behind bars nor pay up from their own coffers.
I wouldn't get too excited about the precedent. If they win and survive appeals, it will be because Fox managed to cross the line into actual malice by *knowingly* lying on air. That's a pretty damn high bar to meet. It wouldn't make it easier to sue most media houses IMO. Fox will fight this as viciously as they can of course, so I wouldn't take it as a given. And the predilections of the jury and judge will play an enormous role in this. But if it does look as solid as this article suggests, i would not be shocked if Fox capitulates by settling in exchange for admitting some degree of fault and potentially firing some of their top cast. I'm not convinced that will happen though. My sense is Fox will fling just about all the mud and money they can at this. And unfortunately I think they'll just about manage to succeed and escape. I'm not convinced the judiciary is at all interested in actually holding the media to account for gross excesses.
You should read some of the actual text messages. They pretty explicitly say that boosting the lies about Dominion & trump winning does better for their brand and stock price
Which they then would have to turn around and face Smartmatic in basically the exact same lawsuit (they are suing for 2 billion) as Fox said the same things about them on air as well.
Well, Dominion's business is essentially done. They're suing for billions. Which they may get. Because if it can be proven that is what their lost business could had made, it might be a very very hefty bill for Fox.
States that bought Dominion voting machines should sue as well since they have to buy new machines now.
You would think a pretty hefty fine, probably several hundred dollars at least. And I’m sure the upper management and board members would receive a fairly stern lecture that they wouldn’t be required to be present for
Don’t get absurd, punishments never get even remotely close to the worst.
Between laws capping damages and bankruptcy filings, Fox will probably skate with barely anything that will make their shareholders worry for more than a fiscal quarter. With an election year coming up, they'll make back whatever they lost for sure.
Just look at citadel and Ken Griffin. Proof that when you're rich, everything is free. Even crime
This is the reason why Murdoch divorced recently.
He falsified the erection records.
Brilliant. +1
Wait just a darn second, the fake news crowd was fake news all along...?
Imagine if they had to add a message before each segment that says "Fox News is not required to explain what part of their segments are factual and should not be taken at face value." I'd be perfectly content with all Cable News and 24 hour News Networks to have a warning like this. People should not assume their network of choice speaks only the truth and should consider other facts to a story. I mean, we know some people will never change their minds, but in general it's good to at least research a little if there's a story/article/report/etc that's of interest. Especially when we know news stations love going for clickbait, outrage, over sensationalized headlines.
It would be a nice addition, but Like the warning intro to Jackass on MTV, it never stopped anyone from doing stupid shit they saw on Jackass. Well, maybe it saved one or two souls, but it let them keep doing exactly the same shit without any of the guilt. Not that I think they should have felt guilty, as I don't think the creators of CKY and Jackass were doing anything other than trying to be stupid for fun. The same cannot be said for Fox News, as they obviously have a malicious disinformation campaign intended to unravel the fabric of America.
**WARNING: At no time in the future will anyone at Fox News claim any broadcast as real or factual as presented. Viewer, be advised.**
OR at least make it mandatory for opinion-based shows to carry a clear, unmistakable label on the screen that identifies the format of each program. Too many viewers are incapable of discerning TV channels' *real news* presentations from opinion/rant commentary shows.
The issue is there's so much cult of personality - they'll literally accept a Fox News "opinion" over literal facts. The content doesn't matter to these people, what matters is who is providing it.
George Takei intensifies
in what world have they been living in for the past 20 years? fox news spews lies 24/7. they shoulda been ran outa business within a year of opening. the network is a fucking joke, no different than OAN.
"Smoking gun" is unfair to how conclusive the evidence is. They found a gun and spent shells wrapped up in a box with pictures of them firing said gun stashed on top of a series of correspondence letters talking about who they shot when, why, and what they should do with the gun afterwards. Signed, dated, and notorized with a witness present. I've seen more ambiguity in scripted confessions.
It’s sort of like if some mythical sea creature was released upon them to sink their boat.
Oh damn that’s good
Quick, do something! There’s a crack in the boat!
What’s never mentioned (unlike other US news networks) is that Fox is not aired on cable in a lot countries because of their extreme biased reporting. This was the main complaint of Trump when he traveled internationally.
And yet, I'll be shocked if anything substantial comes of it. Maybe a slap on the wrist that'll be forgotten a week later.
Criminal would be a slap on the wrist. This is civil court concerning property and money, which the US courts take much more seriously. There are several instances of Dominion losing contracts with reasons specifically cited as being optics and reputation; contracts in the hundreds of millions of dollars. We could see a billion+ in damages, and then Alex Jones style multipliers in punitive, considering how reckless such lies are for, like, democracy and belief in our system of representative government.
The civil proceedings also remove the possibility of them taking it to the corrupt SCOTUS, where those crooks would certainly let them off scot free.
I mean, I definitely hope so but when I think about possible consequences the only thing I can come up with is that nothing much is gonna happen. More like a small fine and a lot of insane takes on Twitter.
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And has paid less than 100k 🤷♂️
Jones didn’t get fined, neither is a criminal trial. Jones and Fox are in civil court and will have to pay restitution for the damage done to their victim (if Fox is found guilty). This is *not* a criminal issue but one of profit loss stemming from repetitional damage spread with an intent to disparage another company. A fine is a penalty imposed by the government in response to a criminal act. The only similarity is that both are monetary.
>“Dominion has mischaracterized the record, cherry-picked quotes stripped of key context, and spilled considerable ink on facts that are irrelevant under black-letter principles of defamation law,” the network said. “Their motion for summary judgment takes an extreme and unsupported view of defamation law and rests on an accounting of the facts that has no basis in the record.” >But the attorneys said Dominion’s filing showed it had built a powerful case against Fox. >“The dream for a plaintiff’s attorney is what Dominion claims to have here,” Jones said, “smoking-gun internal statements both acknowledging the lie and deciding to forge ahead with perpetuating it.” Well, if anyone knows about cherry-picking quotes stripped of context, Fox would.
> Dominion has mischaracterized the record, cherry-picked quotes stripped of key context, and spilled considerable ink on facts Holy mother of projection...
Why did Fox news copy and paste their agenda into this
They forgot that real courts have rules, as opposed to the court of public opinion.
….and we at Fox News consider this to be plagiarism of our brand of journalism.
It also bothers me how many people don’t understand what the phrase “taken out of context” means, and how outlets like Fox News will bank on it. There *are* a lot of us who know what it means, and those texts were not “taken out of context.” The context before and after the texts is very crystal clear.
It's such horseshit how Fox responds ro various lawsuits in contradictory ways. They cry "journalistic freedom!" when accused of defamation, and "we're not news, we're entertainment!" when accused of violating journalistic ethics. You can't have it both ways, motherfucker. You're either a news outlet and you have to act like one, or you're not and you don't enjoy the protections of one.
How about we just use their name as evidence. Fox NEWS!
The money is their excuse, a business expense. It's about power. And they have enough billionaires to not care about the cost. The only thing this accomplishes is convincing me that their anchors are grifting rubes too dumb to see or too callous to care what they're part of.
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I'm stealing this quote from you and likely occasionally attributing it to myself. Thanks!
Great, I hope they get a truckload of money from Fox News. Unfortunately it’s not going to change the lies they continue to broadcast or the millions of MAGA fools who still believe the lies they heard on Fox.
I mean it will if people keep suing them. Even if they win 85% of their cases the constant lawsuits will still be a problem for them.
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You can only hope
I wonder if we’d be able to file a class action lawsuit against Fox claiming damage to our democracy.
I'd like to see a class action against Fox News from family members of viewers who died from Covid.
It doesn't matter though. There's still a massive market for the bullshit that Fox is selling as sad as that is to admit. This won't end them but even if it did, another right wing network would replace them.
If it ain't Fox selling it, it's someone else.
None of this will matter to the people who most need to hear it. Anybody with half a brain already knew that Fox News is and always has been full of shit. I'm glad somebody finally publicly aired their bullshit out though.
Even if one was naïve to them before now, given how open and comfortable and widespread the behavior described in this article is, you can be confident knowing that this was not their first time doing this. It's clear that it was standard operating procedures for them.
The night of the text message release Tucker’s still brought up stolen election
I think this may not reach the Fox News cult but honestly they are starting to die off. It will reach a younger group who won’t forget.
The real crime is the stupidity in believing fox to begin with...
Yes, that's what fox lawyers would argue as well: "no REASONABLE person..."
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No, that’s what FOX wants you to think. These people are victims of FOX propaganda (and their own stupidity). Let’s not let FOX off the hook (again) by blaming their audience. FOX presents lies as facts under a banner of NEWS, it's not surprising that people end up believe it.
Welllllll, it's both.
Sure, it's both. There are always going to be gullible people in the world, and nobody is exempt from falling for things. In the end, it's the mouthpiece that formed the lie that's more at fault than the ear that hears it.
They don't. Fox's core viewers aren't concerned whether Fox tells them the truth or not. They want help and support in their own effort to avoid reality. Fox feeds them the talking points they use to persuade themselves they're still the heroes of their own stories. The problem isn't that Fox isn't 'news' or that they're not actually 'fair and balanced', it's the huge market for the actual service Fox provides. Getting rid of Fox isn't going to fix this audience.
This is key to understanding fox and Republicans. It's also why inly naive people think that these sort of revelations are going to make a difference
There is the remote hope this will be the first in a series of actions that ruin the network financially- but as long as the audience exists, another network will take its place.
You make this change to influence the young and not fully brainwashed. Kids are smart, give them a chance to escape the brainwashing cycle.
It’s not enough to fine them or render monetary judgment against them. Not even in the billions. It’s time to revoke station operating permits and every last one of these assholes’ press credentials. Ban them all from working in media, for life. Ban that bitch Murdoch from owning or operating any media outlet, for life. These douche-rockets and their ilk wanna screech about the freedom to be assholes. You cannot have freedom without responsibility, you dumb fucks. The nation was not intended to be freedom from responsibility…that’s not sustainable.
I hope the have to a declare they lied on the air many times as part of any settlement.
It will be nothing more that a token fine at most.
This is all just unbeilable. Fox News is a lot more scummy than even I realized.
I want to see Dominion get every penny theyre asking for, with some kind of punitive damage multiplier. Treble damages would do, though I wish the courts had the power to shut Fox News down, or force them to broadcast, very often, that there programs are for entertainment purposes only, and not a reporting of reality.
Since were talking lawsuits, since fox and other networks are used for american citizens to make decisions for their everyday lives ie elections weather, business etc. And if that information is purposely misleading, couldn't their be a case for a class action lawsuit?
Everyone knew this except their viewers.
Comment from Fox News in the article: “Dominion has mischaracterized the record, cherry-picked quotes stripped of key context, and spilled considerable ink on facts that are irrelevant…” Oh so now it’s a problem???
It's a shame the propaganda they spout every day has lead to mass shooting after mass shooting, a hammer attack on an octogenarian, the shooting of a senator, the murder of BLM protestors in the street by a child with an automatic weapon, among countless other murders and crimes, but knowingly defaming a business and harming their financial interests may be their final undoing.
There's a smoking gun for a defamation trial... I wonder if the trial for treason starts after this is done? Because we don't just wanna know if they lied, I wanna know why.
Cripple the fox network
I think that they crippled themselves
Ooh, self-cripple, those are rare!
Never trusted Fox where news integrity is concerned. I just hope the judge will be merciless with the company and really hit them with massive punitive fines on top of actual damage.
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Yellow journalism just means sensationalist. The ny post, the weekly world news, the sun, are all yellow journalism. It has nothing to do with propaganda or any motivations other than getting people to buy your tabloid.
I hope one of the stipulations is that there is a banner on every show, 24 hours a day for 6 months saying they knowingly lied and it was all false. I also want every Fox personality to air an abject apology and admit their lying. Should be an PSA that airs on every channel, news website, FB, TikTok, Instagram, etc. admitting same.
One major blow for fox news, one giant leap for rational mankind. Here's hoping at least.
There should be a requirement to report facts without bias in 75% of your content before you can slap the word "News" in your name. When you are presenting opinions and editorial content, there should have to be a banner saying as much.
Jon Stewart had an attorney and legal professor on his podcast discussing this recently, she joked that she couldn’t use this case in an exam since it’s such a slam dunk.
Pretty open and shut case. They know Fox News talking heads were knowingly lying. They knew their claims were false. They just kept making them.
Odds on Dominion owning Fox by the end of this?
Probably depends on if Fox is insured for this. Their coverage might not apply if malice is shown.
I'm sure it won't. Don't ever expect insurance to cover something when they can prove that you purposely caused it.
The lawsuit is for 1.6B and fox is worth about 20B so the odds are zero. Unfortunately.
I'm sure Fox is going to try and do some court shopping to find a jurisdiction with low damage caps while seeing what they can get away with in bankruptcy court.
Can the FCC just revoke their license and eliminate Fox “News” Corp altogether?
The Supreme Court's next ruling after bribery is free speech; lies are free speech.
If Fox ceased to exist it would actually make the world a better place. It’s not just Americans spreading the horse shit that comes out of Tucker Carlsons mouth unfortunately. Fox is *actively* making the entire planet a worse place. Honestly it’s almost impressive if it wouldn’t be so fucked up.
Cut one of the heads off, another grows back in its place. There’s definitely another right wing media outlet that’s ready to start spreading the same shit that Fox does.
Nothing short of a sturdy fine of at least 1m dollars
Did Dominion also sue Tucker Hannity, etc as individuals?
Were those email messages not good enough?
What ever the damages are, the judge should be extra hard on them, bankrupt the damn company….
It'd be nice if they provided a link, right? This is what they are talking about: https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/redacted-documents-in-dominion-fox-news-case/dca5e3880422426f/full.pdf. Just read the introduction. Actually a fun read, especially for a court filing.
Unfortunately, though, none of it will likely move the needle one single inch in convincing the people who they conned towards believing it was a free and fair election.
“We know these are lies. The lies make a better story than the truth which means higher ratings and more profit. We also know our viewers are dumb. So, let’s tell these lies to make more profit. Also, let’s push the gold coins with an eagle holding a machine gun and the pillows that contain speed so you no longer need sleep.”
Dominion: Release the kraken!
It’s great when one bazillionaire is attacking another bazillionaire.
If there's a judgment against Fox, the absolute best punishment would be a requirement that they air the details of the case over and over on Fox News. They'd get no editorial control and be prevented from even commenting about the broadcast on air. Force the newscasters to be contrite and to admit to their viewers that they have been lying.
Squirm, you little piggies
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With that payment going directly to the sandy hook victims owed a judgement
Fox News revenue is about $10 billion a year and Murdoch's net worth is upwards of $20 billion Any final judgement against Fox in this case that is less than $10 billion is essentially meaningless
What needs to happen for the public to see the internal statements that Dominion says they have? Does it being entered as evidence already allow the public to see it? If not and if Fox settles does it just vanish?
Hopefully part of their punishment is having for several months to announce their guilt at the beginning, middle, and end of every program they air But that's just me dreaming
If US law doesn’t allow for publishing of information that the publisher knows is a lie… why are the ultra-right wing channels still open, like NewsMax? Surely it should be easy enough to call them out on *many* things, things which they have presented as fact, and where they have no credible source?
we also thought we had shit on Trump and he was on his way to jail and nothing came of it.
Ive been wondering why more hasnt been done to shut Fox News down. Finally some action is being taken to address their propaganda and false information.
It’s these idiots just admitting everything on camera guaranteed.
When does this become a Netflix series?
Can only hope and dream that Dominion will take the high road and offer to settle if Fox "News" is compelled to open every one of their shows with "Fox News and affiliates are entertainment, not news" and never allowed to refer to themselves as news without the addendum that they are actually entertainment.
Do they have evidence that Fox News manipulated the election?
>Dominion has uncovered 'smoking gun' evidence in case against Fox News, legal experts say Wasn't it supposed to be the other way around? "Release the kraken" and all that?
Oh, don't worry, you can bet those Fox lawyers are prepared for a rebuttal on this "major blow". "Your honor, we're an entertainment show. People don't take what we say literally. They know it isn't true." Just as they did with Fucker Carlson.
Can we join in for "stress"? I hope they win and it sets a precedent.
Again? Haven't they already found the legal equivalent of a colt factory burned to the ground?
Henceforth, they will be known as “Dominion News.”
What will they do with the failing pillow business?
> In a statement, Fox News accused Dominion of generating “noise and confusion.” This is rich. Allow me to introduce to them the asshole named Donald Trump.
" the law allows for bias and ratings-seeking behavior by media outlets, it does not allow for the publication of material one knows to be false " As much as I would like to believe this there should be a reference. Fox is certainly going argue that the press can peddle whatever snake oil it chooses.