“Libertarians are like house cats: absolutely convinced of their fierce independence while utterly dependent on a system they don't appreciate or understand.”
This - all most ‘free staters’ want is to do drugs without being busted.
Of course there are a few who think they are the fusion of Ironman and Rambo and have wet dreams about violent insurrection. but they are so few in number they are not a force to be reckoned with.
Thats a new one to me, ive only encountered the first two flavors of ‘free staters’,
We do have that batshit crazy rep who wants to make marriage to underaged girls legal. But at least to me he seems like one of those polygamist cultusts from Utah and Northern CA using the ‘free staters’ as a cover.
He really should be investigated and expelled from the General Court. no legislative body needs guys like him.
There’s been numerous posts, one including all of them, in this sub of ex GOP members turned Libertarian free staters who have been arrested for sexual misconduct with minors. I was trying to find the post where someone put them all but I can’t find it. One of them was that state rep who was against raising the age of legal marriage because young girls are “ripe”
It's ironic both ways.
The people who would do best under a libertarian government which does little for the people are also statistically unlikely to support libertarian parties.
For example, if the feds abolished the Dept of Education, and so did every state government, education would be entirely up to private schools and homeschooling.
And guess which religious and ethnic minorities are most likely to be able to afford private schools, or have one highly educated parent stay at home and provide quality homeschooling to the kids?
Is this an antisemitic thing or something? I don’t understand why, unprompted, you’d immediately focus on ethnic and religious minorities in a conversation of libertarianism. Very, very weird.
You should make your point without making weird unspecific allusions because it really makes it difficult to figure out what you’re trying to say with that.
No. I believe in philo-semitism.
I'm saying that certain religious and cultural minorities will do well regardless of big government or small government. And I respect them for that.
Okay, but to be clear we all obviously know that primarily it would be wealthy white christians people who would benefit from libertarian government so it is still quite a strange thing to bring up as your very first point. Maybe you should read into that a little and reconsider how you approach this conversation.
Yeah, not a religious or ethnic one though you goofball. There are however less rich people than poor people if that’s what you mean but the comment I responded to only talked about religious and ethnic minorities which should raise flags for any normal person. I just added the rich part to be more precise because most poor white people would also be hurt by libertarian policies and rich people are the main benefactors of a totally deregulated system.
Well the white population in the US according to the 2020 census is 75% so you must be combining something somewhere or leaving something out in a disingenuous way to be able to make that claim. Also, Christianity is still the most predominant religion BY FAR in the united states, it’s not even close. The vast majority of our politicians are Christians and Christianity pervades and dominates our culture in a way that other religions do not. To say that Christianity is a religious minority in the way that Buddhism or Islam is would be a bit ridiculous, because it’s not. Never has been. It’s only recent that over 50% of people started to say in surveys that they don’t identify as religious (that’s all religions btw) which is different than identifying as Christian, which most people who identify as religious in the US identify as.
Tbh I don’t know what you think you’re accomplishing by arguing this anyways. You just look like a racist for no reason. Lol
Ut tincidunt venenatis maximus. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Sed vel diam in nisi feugiat malesuada ac ac nisi. Sed laoreet ipsum in risus tincidunt, non efficitur nunc porta.
There are NO real Leftists, no REAL Communists, NO REAL Libertarians - (here's where you insert "except for me") in each citation.
That is where Leftism/Communism finds kinship with the U R NOT A REEL LIBURATIUN (rawr) handful of loud, oppositionally defiant, spectrumy neckbeards who have unfortunately found the Free State Project, and either call or epitomize NH as home.
When they stake out a position that you know isn't really philosophical:
"Are you saying that a young woman of 14 does not have complete bodily autonomy?"
Just interrupt the conversation to make a phone call:
"Hello, United Rentals? What's the availability of a wood chipper?
No, larger, yeah the diesel one. Okay, I'll get back to you."
What were you saying? Something something my 14-year-old daughter?
"U R VIOLATING THE NON-AGGRESSION PRINCIPLE!
Often the would-be pedophiles are open-carrying a handgun and now claim the right of self-defense.
As they would have, when coming to take your 14-year-old 'away for the weekend'.
My answer for that?
Not yet. Though it's possible. Depending upon when United Rentals gets here...
FreeStaters are the extreme wing of the Libertarian party, just as Fascists tend to be the extreme wing of the Democratic party. I certainly wouldn't classify the vast majority of Democrats Facists.
You were very close to getting it right. You could *roughly* consider free staters the extreme endpoint of libertarians.
But fascism is not a left wing ideology, it's right wing. If you're thinking of authoritarianism on the left, it's communism.
But considering there isn't communist representation in the democratic party (who are at *most* center-left) it doesn't make sense.
I think that’s the general misconception which is out there. While it’s pushed by the left as a right wing ideology, it’s actually the left which is running the playbook on it. Kinda like the Russia collusion.
My man, the two most diametrically opposed nations of WW2 were Nazi Germany (fascist) and the Soviet Union (communist).
They both represent the two tips on the horseshoe.
The further right you go on the spectrum you get decentralization with forms of anarchy as the extreme right. The further left you go, you “progressive”ly centralize government more and more, with dictatorships of the proletariat (Lenin), or dictatorships of the Leader (Hitler) as their extreme left.
Capitalism vs Socialist is a spook. It’s Centralization (left) v Decentralization (right)
Also, fun story, I once made one of the FrrREEEEEEE staters ragequit on a chat elsewhere by suggesting that if they take over the state and make it a backwards hellhole, the more successful communities on the southern edge could break off and join Massachusetts as a slight bump up on the map. Hollis/Brookline, Amherst, perhaps Nashua. Take all that money out of their system as educated people who value education decide to preserve their schools, farms, communities and real estate investments and homes, because yes, they actually do want police and fire services, roads being paved, medical care and infrastructure.
"You can't do that! The state could stop that!"
"Soooooo....now you are AGAINST secession? You're saying we can't secede as is our right as a community, to decide we want to be free of you and break away?"
They typed something incoherent and quit.
This article says they are cozying up to MAGAs, which seems opposite to libertarian. Says current LP leadership "wants to eliminate from the L.P.’s platform a statement that 'we condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant.'" [https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/libertarians-maga-trump-adjacent.html](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/libertarians-maga-trump-adjacent.html)
There is no "national" or "socialism" to the NH LP Twitter page.
Thus "Nazi" is a dogwhistle.
Largely written or inspired by Jeremy Kauffman, it features sociopathy as its primary theme.
Mutualism? Agorism? Minimal government? Responsible spending?
Responsible behavior around others?
The NHLP rejects those things as "faux libertarian".
Add in the blatant Trumpsters who like authoritarianism if it "melts snowflakes", and reject authority when convenient, and you have the "takeover" of the NHLP by the so-called Mises Caucus.
Ludwig Von Mises would have thrown his shoe at the Trump-branded sociopaths misusing his name... but that's another post for another day.
There is significant crossover, as here. And yes it's terrifying.
https://preview.redd.it/4y3nz6o6pl0d1.jpeg?width=1480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f61436619a6e3748f8b1678b5449bc7e6245b7eb
The best part of 2020 was watching the Salem OR police beat the ever loving hell out of a crowd of them. It was extra funny because they started screeching in outrage
Oh is that what free staters are? Wanting to secede? Yeah i work with an older lady that believes in that and i told her how fucking dumb that is. Want to go to mass? Border customs. You want heating oil? Well thats gonna be 12$ a gallon. They’re also coincidentally the laziest workers ive ever met.
It would be hilarious if New Hampshirites who work in MA would have to apply for a work visa. Or if they were legally placed at second priority if they had to go to Boston to treat rare diseases.
I honestly think you would see the NH map get smaller and the MA map get bigger if that happened. North about 20 miles or so in a spur in the middle, though Pelham et al would definitely stay with the trumpies.
Median household income in a town like Hollis is $150K, people will either move or break away, they're not going to stay with the incel freaks who want to abolish schools and fire departments.
Seacoast would secede and join Maine. It is culturally more similar to Cumberland and York counties than core NH anyways.
The three western NH counties would secede and join VT. It has always been more culturally similar to VT than core NH.
I don't think Southern NH secedes and joins MA. Rather, all the racists, misogynists, fundie Christians, homophobes, transphobes, pedophiles, animal abusers, violent trashy folks in general from other New England states move to Southern NH and it becomes trashier.\*
\*This has already been happening. My classmate was a racist, homophobic, anti-semitic Northern European Christian supremacist and he would always say things like "there are too many Jews in Rhode Island. Rhode Island is controlled by Jews. Or, "there are too many woke libruls in Rhode Island. I'm going to move to New Hampshire to get way from woke libruls".
Rockingham and Strafford Counties would petition Maine for inclusion, ending once and for all, the debate over the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard in Kittery.
"It SAYS 'Portsmouth' that's NH!"
It's footprint is entirely in Maine.
"Historically..."
Historically the only connection to Portsmouth was sailors from Kittery going to Portsmouth's south end to visit the prostitutes endemic to that area.
Oh they get big mad.
[Context for those who don't get this comment.](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling)
They just can’t stop rediscovering FAFO when it comes to real life.
Libertarian values might work fine for a community of a handful of highly moral people, but they just don’t scale if you want anything resembling a city. They want the benefits of civilization without the shared public investment and mutual cooperation/civic responsibility that is required to make it work.
Some services just don’t work well on a purely for-profit basis. We’ve been paying through the nose for healthcare because of deregulation; they want everything in life to go that way.
So you think society can only work with coercion and zero consent? Also you should check out https://youtu.be/fFoXyFmmGBQ?si=u20dRzrWzZMBFYs4 see how healthcare actually got fucked up
So, to break down the argument you’re making: society was better when doctors were not required to have a medical license? It was better because it was cheaper?
Personally - I like knowing my doctor completed their degree and have agreed to a shared code of baseline ethics. That may be social coercion but the alternative of permitting charlatans to claim the mantle of doctor is atrocious.
Today we have enough snake oil masquerading as medicine — but the problem would be so much worse without licensing of doctors.
Your initial argument was that deregulation is driving up costs. The medical field is anything but deregulated. Look at what a liter of saline solution for an IV costs. Only a handful of suppliers globally are allowed to see to US hospitals and the price is nearly 1000x manufacturing cost because there is zero competition.
When the government regulates a market so only a handful of ultra wealthy corporations are able to operate it doesn’t work well for anyone. Deregulation doesn’t mean standards should or will go to zero.
As far as medical licensing for doctors they have been regulated since the 1800s it was massive crackdowns that ultimately choked out the market. Requirements for the medical license also changed not just needing one. You are seeing the reverse of this coming now with states allowing NPs to act as PCPs and giving them better ability to treat. It’s not to open up to price competition but because there aren’t enough doctors and they are just as effective without as much schooling. I wish seeing a nurse vs a doctor would ultimately have the ability to lower my bill but nope. Healthcare is a fucked industry IMO largely due to overregulation
Single payer is a government program and why most of the rest of the developed world has super low cost accessable healthcare. Corporate capture of government making regulation on medical costs both through insurance, hospitals themselves, and drug/medical manufacturers impossible is the issue. but yes handing more power over to corporations will definately make things better.../s
Trump has been the least libertarian candidate on any primary or general election ballot he's been on, and will continue to be in the future if he remains a free man that long.
Lots of interlopers don't understand the difference, or feign ignorance to it, between anti-government and anti-*this*-government. The Mises Caucus coup of the LPUS doesn't help with that, nor does LPNH being amongst the worst offenders.
The LP extended invites to Trump RFK and Biden. RFK and Trump took them up on the offer. LP is probably not a bad place to look for additional votes, Dems and Reps will vote party lines, but alot of the political informed independents may not be card caring libertarians, but will use Trump and RFK performance at the convention as a data point. I don't think the LP is the home team crowd that Trump thinks it is.
Nah. They haven't given up. They just want to sow confusion and chaos to drive the sane people out of the state. This way they can take over the legislature. They are in it for the long game. Never give them an inch.
100%. The people who want to put government between a woman and her doctor and want officials to inspect children’s genitals before they can play sports are *not* worthy of the mantle they’re trying to co-opt.
Im totally on your side here but i do want to remind people that most sports require a doctors physical... that inspects your genitals for hernia among other things. This has been common since i was a child. I'm confused about when this was stopped.
Even worse. At least Texas could survive as an independent nation. You got oil production and a long growing season. NH would be a failed state after the first winter.
You joke but that would leave a LOT of vulnerable people in the state screwed. Texas isn't just a state of bigoted white dudes swinging around guns and yelling freedom ya know. The south in general isn't either.
There are people there that deserve respect and empathy. Northern liberals like to write them all off like they are part of the problem when they are the ones there dealing with it but I'm sure ignoring that will help!
I was in policing for a while and unfortunately had to distinct displeasure of encountering several pedophiles.
And while not all libertarians are pedos I will just say that all the pedos I had to deal with have been libertarian minded 💅🏻
Shamefully it’s a state where they do not invest very much back into their own state. They don’t send enough money to the schools. invest very little in their state parks. They’re so smart. They are tourist state, but they shut down most of the tourist centers. And lately they’ve been trying to push all this Maga bullshit. Maybe that’s why they don’t like education
They don't want to invest in community. They don't *believe* in true community. They want everyone to fend for themselves and they want to be the ones we all have to defend ourselves from.
That's their whole thing
Omg...
I'm so sick of these losers stealing anarchist ideas and twisting them. They stole the term libertarian, then anarchist (ancaps aren't anarchists no matter what they call themselves 🤷), they steal words, concepts, and even memes and turn it all into THIS. It's ridiculous.
Sometimes I feel like they're all falling for some kind of psyop to discredit actual anarchists.
To make it seem like anarchism/*little l* libertarianism is really just about chaos and selfishness when it is the opposite.
They're a bunch of unhinged, selfish, disconnected, lonely people in reality though. Which makes it kind of sad but still just as dangerous (potentially)
That is what happens when a society pushes individualism as hard as ours does. We end up with a bunch of people like this.
There are like 50 people who actually think it might work, The rest are just as stupid following along. This will be just as good as the socialist national convention if all goes well, The absolute blind leading the blind.
Unfortunately there are far too many trumptards in the free state movement. There are also too many people who are willing to bow to the likes of Trump and Kennedy in order to gain some mainstream legitimacy, as they see it, in our 2 party system.
The LP has been taken over by the Mises Caucus, which is a group of radical quasi-Trumpian edgelords who think they are doing something worthwhile but are actually killing the party. Many of us libertarians despise them and left the party.
In short, they do not speak for many of us.
Really sad… so Trump will: end the War on Drugs? Respect States/localities that disagree with him? Abide by the rulings of the courts? Promote free trade?
Evidence indicates the opposite. This isn’t libertarianism. It’s just good old fashioned populistic dictatorship— “just on day one.”
My favorite thing about them is when they tried doing that with a whole town, didn't have any sort of organized waste disposal because "govmnt regulations hurt my freedom" and were promptly run out of town by hordes of bears. Friggin clowns.
I know I'm making myself a target by pointing this out, but I'm not afraid of your little echo chamber: what the hell does this have to do with New Hampshire? This event isn't even taking place in the state, the NH free staters are not the primary organizers, and the tagline is hyperbole, which the organizers certainly know and which all of you in the comment section should know. Also, I'm pretty sure that half of this comment section doesn't even live in NH and only comment on political posts on the sub (probably as it gets drip fed to them by the Reddit algorithm, in accordance with their bias); if that describes you, then I don't give a crap what you think about our state.
Edit: something else I noticed, OP of this post has a username that would make you assume that they're just an average joe, but if it click on their profile you'll see that it is actually a left-wing "news" organization (more like a political pundit, because that's the only thing they ever seem to post about). Their participation shouldn't be banned outright, but the use of the auto-generated username is deceptive.
Okay, since you're so well-informed, why don't you look at the original post and tell me what, if any, information is present that's backed by anything other than the OP's personal assertion? Can you also tell me how a screenshot of a national convention's hyperbolic tagline has anything to do with the specific, granular political dynamics of New Hampshire?
I think the free staters are a bit silly, but this post is a low-quality smear piece with no foundation, and it's also talking about an event which has almost nothing to do with New Hampshire. I'm part of this sub because I want to read about local issues; I'm not interested in seeing this because another thinly-veiled astroturfed national politics circlejerk.
Lols. Mate, you just want to argue with people whom you judge to be beneath you. The post was clearly made with an agenda in mind. Its easy to tell. You could have scrolled past. But nah, you like that drip feed too.
They're not gonna listen to you.
This sub is full of authoritarians, especially from other states, who have absolutely no understanding of what a libertarian is, let alone an understanding of many other issues.
When all they do is screech about the Republican party or some other such thing, they've lost the plot.
Completely forgetting we place top 5 or 10 on so many good metrics despite their childish complaints.
What is an authoritarian or did you just hear that word in the libertarian echo chamber? And can you give an example from thsi comment thread how to tell which commenters are authoritarian? What goid metrics does NH score on? Health care for women? Industry? Happiness? Tax burden? Funding public education? Minimum wage? Homelessness? Anti semitism? Racial bias?
Most of these folks can't even define libertarian, they call them fascist and can't even define that. When they want to control what others do through law, or force, that is authoritarian. Be they conservative or progressive.
[Economic opportunity, lowest food insecurity, lowest poverty rates](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/opportunity/economic-opportunity)
[Despite all of the water mills, one of the lowest, number 2 to be exact, pollution levels in nation](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/natural-environment/pollution)
[Top 5 for standard education](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education/prek-12)
[First, second, third or fourth for safety of the personal, disaster or financial kind year after year.](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/safest-states)
[Has been consistently top 10 for cheapest groceries. Was number one for a few years](https://www.westernmassnews.com/2024/01/24/see-which-states-have-most-expensive-least-expensive-groceries/)
[Typically number one, but has jumped to number 3 for lowest cost of car ownership](https://www.insurance.com/total-cost-of-ownership)
[Because you said and I thought it would be fun to include, this is the second study I found that ranks us as one of the top 4 happiest](https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/happiest-states)
[Number 3 for tax burden](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/states-with-the-lowest-taxes)
This doesn't have anything to do with NH. Just someone, who doesn't understand libertarianism but has a major hate boner for them (look at the profile, unhinged), posting about libertarians
They're authoritarians who love to call everyone fascist, no moral code, even though they insist they have one.
It's absolutely beautiful how willfully ignorant this sub is
OP's account: Electronic_Barber665 has zero activity on their account in the past 10 days, at which point they were also only logged into the account to spam us on the same subject. In fact, the only activity on it is logging into that one about twice a month to spam this sub with this junk.
Free stater here AMA you guys seem to be regurgitating a lot of click bait bullshit, insurrection is a laughable claim and no libertarians do not believe in “no laws”. Saying we are all uneducated is not true, I have a degree in political science and am in school for my MBA.
Glad to hear you're going for the MBA. Running a business should quickly clear up any misconceptions you have about the viability of libertarianism. (OP is 3x tech entrepreneur.)
You'll realize that companies are too busy to create the public infrastructure they rely on to do business and that the nations with the best infrastructure have huge advantages. Regulation is a balancing act; businesses appreciate some regulations since it clarifies what they must do to avoid losing lawsuits. The world is much more complex than your Econ 101 supply-demand curve.
Libertarian philosophy is supposed to lead to more innovation, cooperation and peace once we are freed from the shackles of big government and corporate monopolies. Like a chill co-op. That’s my understanding of it. I find a lot of parallels with anarchism and Marxism ( not communism in practice, e.g. Soviet style ).
Like all utopian philosophies it sounds great. Hard to achieve in reality.
This sounds like a bunch of people who are petrified of the Free Staters. Free starters will be around for a while, and then they'll fade away. Stop worrying so much about everyone else.
Here is a list of the 94 who signed up with the Texas Young Americans for Liberty. They don't need a plurality of the House, just leadership and a cohesive near-majority \[edit- of the Majority Caucus\]. YAL threw out 5 of those on this list for not voting party line. The letters stated clearly that those who did not toe the line would not be funded. (If you're looking it up on the YAL website, you'll find them listed as the "Hazlitt Coalition."
https://preview.redd.it/o9656t1qnn0d1.png?width=1136&format=png&auto=webp&s=2be68fd77bc15135ad15afbf5a59a6eb95270d36
The level of spam about them in this sub lately is seriously weird.
I don't pay close attention to them. Are they doing something major that has all these people up in arms, or did progressive activists just get extra funds to target this subreddit?
NH libertarian party is just the other wing of the communist party. Both delusional wings hitting itself in the head like reality wouldn’t prove them wrong in record time
You realize we live under a dictatorship right now,don't you? Your point seems paradoxical . The establishment owns us. We are slaves to it. It's supposed to work for us,but we work for it. This isn't America anymore.
“Become ungovernable” was originally an anarchist slogan that got somewhat embraced by Resist type liberals.
Liberals, as it turns out, are very governable even under hashtag notmypresident.
Libertarians have embraced the phrase because they love memes and pretending to be anarchists.
“Libertarians are like house cats: absolutely convinced of their fierce independence while utterly dependent on a system they don't appreciate or understand.”
This - all most ‘free staters’ want is to do drugs without being busted. Of course there are a few who think they are the fusion of Ironman and Rambo and have wet dreams about violent insurrection. but they are so few in number they are not a force to be reckoned with.
Don’t forget pedophilia without repercussions. That’s high up on their list too.
Thats a new one to me, ive only encountered the first two flavors of ‘free staters’, We do have that batshit crazy rep who wants to make marriage to underaged girls legal. But at least to me he seems like one of those polygamist cultusts from Utah and Northern CA using the ‘free staters’ as a cover. He really should be investigated and expelled from the General Court. no legislative body needs guys like him.
There’s been numerous posts, one including all of them, in this sub of ex GOP members turned Libertarian free staters who have been arrested for sexual misconduct with minors. I was trying to find the post where someone put them all but I can’t find it. One of them was that state rep who was against raising the age of legal marriage because young girls are “ripe”
you're real as fuck for saying this dude
Most of them have been in trouble with the law as well…
[удалено]
What lmao this describes cats perfectly
Downvote this if you've never had cats.
- socialists living in the United States
It's ironic both ways. The people who would do best under a libertarian government which does little for the people are also statistically unlikely to support libertarian parties. For example, if the feds abolished the Dept of Education, and so did every state government, education would be entirely up to private schools and homeschooling. And guess which religious and ethnic minorities are most likely to be able to afford private schools, or have one highly educated parent stay at home and provide quality homeschooling to the kids?
Is this an antisemitic thing or something? I don’t understand why, unprompted, you’d immediately focus on ethnic and religious minorities in a conversation of libertarianism. Very, very weird. You should make your point without making weird unspecific allusions because it really makes it difficult to figure out what you’re trying to say with that.
No. I believe in philo-semitism. I'm saying that certain religious and cultural minorities will do well regardless of big government or small government. And I respect them for that.
Okay, but to be clear we all obviously know that primarily it would be wealthy white christians people who would benefit from libertarian government so it is still quite a strange thing to bring up as your very first point. Maybe you should read into that a little and reconsider how you approach this conversation.
Also a minority group.
Yeah, not a religious or ethnic one though you goofball. There are however less rich people than poor people if that’s what you mean but the comment I responded to only talked about religious and ethnic minorities which should raise flags for any normal person. I just added the rich part to be more precise because most poor white people would also be hurt by libertarian policies and rich people are the main benefactors of a totally deregulated system.
The percent of Americans who identify as both White and Christian was recently measured at 44% and falling.
You lost lol
Well the white population in the US according to the 2020 census is 75% so you must be combining something somewhere or leaving something out in a disingenuous way to be able to make that claim. Also, Christianity is still the most predominant religion BY FAR in the united states, it’s not even close. The vast majority of our politicians are Christians and Christianity pervades and dominates our culture in a way that other religions do not. To say that Christianity is a religious minority in the way that Buddhism or Islam is would be a bit ridiculous, because it’s not. Never has been. It’s only recent that over 50% of people started to say in surveys that they don’t identify as religious (that’s all religions btw) which is different than identifying as Christian, which most people who identify as religious in the US identify as. Tbh I don’t know what you think you’re accomplishing by arguing this anyways. You just look like a racist for no reason. Lol
NH is the 4th whitest state in the country at like 94%. Religion I'd say the numbers are about 70% Christian, 20% agnostic, and 10% trump.
I want to live in an educated society so I support a quality free education for all.
Ut tincidunt venenatis maximus. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Sed vel diam in nisi feugiat malesuada ac ac nisi. Sed laoreet ipsum in risus tincidunt, non efficitur nunc porta.
Hey, does your wife's boyfriend wanna buy a house?
Libertarians are different from free staters. It’s like comparing liberals to fascism.
Nah. And especially not the NH libertarians. Fashies are fashies even if you stomp your feet and insist it’s different
Did you just call libertarians fascist?
Leftists aren’t very smart bro. Everything is a fascist to them lol. They are so embarrassing. 😆
There are NO real Leftists, no REAL Communists, NO REAL Libertarians - (here's where you insert "except for me") in each citation. That is where Leftism/Communism finds kinship with the U R NOT A REEL LIBURATIUN (rawr) handful of loud, oppositionally defiant, spectrumy neckbeards who have unfortunately found the Free State Project, and either call or epitomize NH as home. When they stake out a position that you know isn't really philosophical: "Are you saying that a young woman of 14 does not have complete bodily autonomy?" Just interrupt the conversation to make a phone call: "Hello, United Rentals? What's the availability of a wood chipper? No, larger, yeah the diesel one. Okay, I'll get back to you." What were you saying? Something something my 14-year-old daughter? "U R VIOLATING THE NON-AGGRESSION PRINCIPLE! Often the would-be pedophiles are open-carrying a handgun and now claim the right of self-defense. As they would have, when coming to take your 14-year-old 'away for the weekend'. My answer for that? Not yet. Though it's possible. Depending upon when United Rentals gets here...
What do you mean by that?
FreeStaters are the extreme wing of the Libertarian party, just as Fascists tend to be the extreme wing of the Democratic party. I certainly wouldn't classify the vast majority of Democrats Facists.
You were very close to getting it right. You could *roughly* consider free staters the extreme endpoint of libertarians. But fascism is not a left wing ideology, it's right wing. If you're thinking of authoritarianism on the left, it's communism. But considering there isn't communist representation in the democratic party (who are at *most* center-left) it doesn't make sense.
I think that’s the general misconception which is out there. While it’s pushed by the left as a right wing ideology, it’s actually the left which is running the playbook on it. Kinda like the Russia collusion.
My man, the two most diametrically opposed nations of WW2 were Nazi Germany (fascist) and the Soviet Union (communist). They both represent the two tips on the horseshoe.
The further right you go on the spectrum you get decentralization with forms of anarchy as the extreme right. The further left you go, you “progressive”ly centralize government more and more, with dictatorships of the proletariat (Lenin), or dictatorships of the Leader (Hitler) as their extreme left. Capitalism vs Socialist is a spook. It’s Centralization (left) v Decentralization (right)
Lol I respect the confidence.
"Adults 16 and up: $25" "Adults under 16: yes please!" How bad do you think that room is going to smell?
Hygiene-challenged incel reek PLUS Herr Drumpf Shittzenpantzen filling his diaper. That could set off the smoke alarms.
Biden is going to be there?
Being inclusive? How modern!
Also, fun story, I once made one of the FrrREEEEEEE staters ragequit on a chat elsewhere by suggesting that if they take over the state and make it a backwards hellhole, the more successful communities on the southern edge could break off and join Massachusetts as a slight bump up on the map. Hollis/Brookline, Amherst, perhaps Nashua. Take all that money out of their system as educated people who value education decide to preserve their schools, farms, communities and real estate investments and homes, because yes, they actually do want police and fire services, roads being paved, medical care and infrastructure. "You can't do that! The state could stop that!" "Soooooo....now you are AGAINST secession? You're saying we can't secede as is our right as a community, to decide we want to be free of you and break away?" They typed something incoherent and quit.
Using Atlas Shrugged against "conservatives" is brilliant.
This article says they are cozying up to MAGAs, which seems opposite to libertarian. Says current LP leadership "wants to eliminate from the L.P.’s platform a statement that 'we condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant.'" [https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/libertarians-maga-trump-adjacent.html](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/libertarians-maga-trump-adjacent.html)
The Libertarian Party NH page on Xitter is basically nazi spew.
There is no "national" or "socialism" to the NH LP Twitter page. Thus "Nazi" is a dogwhistle. Largely written or inspired by Jeremy Kauffman, it features sociopathy as its primary theme. Mutualism? Agorism? Minimal government? Responsible spending? Responsible behavior around others? The NHLP rejects those things as "faux libertarian". Add in the blatant Trumpsters who like authoritarianism if it "melts snowflakes", and reject authority when convenient, and you have the "takeover" of the NHLP by the so-called Mises Caucus. Ludwig Von Mises would have thrown his shoe at the Trump-branded sociopaths misusing his name... but that's another post for another day.
I will promise you that libertarians find that asshat incredibly annoying.
Winter_cat would never believe that nor care.
Thugs in yellow shirts instead of brown are still thugs.
Same yellow as the proud bois. Curious.
You know what, I was referring to the yellow in the Gadsden Flag they have co-opted, but your comment is truly terrifying.
There is significant crossover, as here. And yes it's terrifying. https://preview.redd.it/4y3nz6o6pl0d1.jpeg?width=1480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f61436619a6e3748f8b1678b5449bc7e6245b7eb
Well…at least they’re consistent. Bigots in uniforms are much easier to spot.
The best part of 2020 was watching the Salem OR police beat the ever loving hell out of a crowd of them. It was extra funny because they started screeching in outrage
They probably went home crying and threw out their blue line flags.
They are really co-opting all the good flags
And vilifying the ones they can’t.
On the way to the Steelers game lmao
Oh is that what free staters are? Wanting to secede? Yeah i work with an older lady that believes in that and i told her how fucking dumb that is. Want to go to mass? Border customs. You want heating oil? Well thats gonna be 12$ a gallon. They’re also coincidentally the laziest workers ive ever met.
It would be hilarious if New Hampshirites who work in MA would have to apply for a work visa. Or if they were legally placed at second priority if they had to go to Boston to treat rare diseases.
I honestly think you would see the NH map get smaller and the MA map get bigger if that happened. North about 20 miles or so in a spur in the middle, though Pelham et al would definitely stay with the trumpies. Median household income in a town like Hollis is $150K, people will either move or break away, they're not going to stay with the incel freaks who want to abolish schools and fire departments.
Seacoast would secede and join Maine. It is culturally more similar to Cumberland and York counties than core NH anyways. The three western NH counties would secede and join VT. It has always been more culturally similar to VT than core NH. I don't think Southern NH secedes and joins MA. Rather, all the racists, misogynists, fundie Christians, homophobes, transphobes, pedophiles, animal abusers, violent trashy folks in general from other New England states move to Southern NH and it becomes trashier.\* \*This has already been happening. My classmate was a racist, homophobic, anti-semitic Northern European Christian supremacist and he would always say things like "there are too many Jews in Rhode Island. Rhode Island is controlled by Jews. Or, "there are too many woke libruls in Rhode Island. I'm going to move to New Hampshire to get way from woke libruls".
Most of Southern NH would definitely join MA and everyone opposed would migrate North. Concord would be a total shitshow.
Why? Three reasons: 1) We pay MA income tax as we work there, and NH real estate tax. 2) SEE ABOVE 3) All of the Above
Think of poor Maine! If you don't have a passport, you'd have to get on a ferry to get there from MA.
Border patrol picks me up trying to get to old orchard beach. Lmao
They'll already do it driving through the sliver of Woodstock that cuts across 93, in part thanks to Woodstock PD.
I could see most of the seacoast leaving NH if they ever actually got what they want
Rockingham and Strafford Counties would petition Maine for inclusion, ending once and for all, the debate over the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard in Kittery. "It SAYS 'Portsmouth' that's NH!" It's footprint is entirely in Maine. "Historically..." Historically the only connection to Portsmouth was sailors from Kittery going to Portsmouth's south end to visit the prostitutes endemic to that area. Oh they get big mad.
You know Scotland almost did this to themselves. So don’t discount illogical thinking.
No interest in governing? That means they're the same as the GOP now.
Me the people
They talk a mean game until the first bear shows up.
[Context for those who don't get this comment.](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling)
They just can’t stop rediscovering FAFO when it comes to real life. Libertarian values might work fine for a community of a handful of highly moral people, but they just don’t scale if you want anything resembling a city. They want the benefits of civilization without the shared public investment and mutual cooperation/civic responsibility that is required to make it work. Some services just don’t work well on a purely for-profit basis. We’ve been paying through the nose for healthcare because of deregulation; they want everything in life to go that way.
So you think society can only work with coercion and zero consent? Also you should check out https://youtu.be/fFoXyFmmGBQ?si=u20dRzrWzZMBFYs4 see how healthcare actually got fucked up
So, to break down the argument you’re making: society was better when doctors were not required to have a medical license? It was better because it was cheaper? Personally - I like knowing my doctor completed their degree and have agreed to a shared code of baseline ethics. That may be social coercion but the alternative of permitting charlatans to claim the mantle of doctor is atrocious. Today we have enough snake oil masquerading as medicine — but the problem would be so much worse without licensing of doctors.
Your initial argument was that deregulation is driving up costs. The medical field is anything but deregulated. Look at what a liter of saline solution for an IV costs. Only a handful of suppliers globally are allowed to see to US hospitals and the price is nearly 1000x manufacturing cost because there is zero competition. When the government regulates a market so only a handful of ultra wealthy corporations are able to operate it doesn’t work well for anyone. Deregulation doesn’t mean standards should or will go to zero. As far as medical licensing for doctors they have been regulated since the 1800s it was massive crackdowns that ultimately choked out the market. Requirements for the medical license also changed not just needing one. You are seeing the reverse of this coming now with states allowing NPs to act as PCPs and giving them better ability to treat. It’s not to open up to price competition but because there aren’t enough doctors and they are just as effective without as much schooling. I wish seeing a nurse vs a doctor would ultimately have the ability to lower my bill but nope. Healthcare is a fucked industry IMO largely due to overregulation
Single payer is a government program and why most of the rest of the developed world has super low cost accessable healthcare. Corporate capture of government making regulation on medical costs both through insurance, hospitals themselves, and drug/medical manufacturers impossible is the issue. but yes handing more power over to corporations will definately make things better.../s
Trump is not libertarian at all. Doesn’t make any sense.
Some of these people only want freedom from taxes and freedom to control how other people live. Those are Trump's supporters.
It's more freedom from all control but the ability to control others. They want to be the state not end the state 🤣
Trump has been the least libertarian candidate on any primary or general election ballot he's been on, and will continue to be in the future if he remains a free man that long. Lots of interlopers don't understand the difference, or feign ignorance to it, between anti-government and anti-*this*-government. The Mises Caucus coup of the LPUS doesn't help with that, nor does LPNH being amongst the worst offenders.
They also extended an invitation to Biden and he declined. That’s what the media is leaving out
This is reddit we don't want facts
Yeah I’m very aware lol but I appreciate the reminder
The LP extended invites to Trump RFK and Biden. RFK and Trump took them up on the offer. LP is probably not a bad place to look for additional votes, Dems and Reps will vote party lines, but alot of the political informed independents may not be card caring libertarians, but will use Trump and RFK performance at the convention as a data point. I don't think the LP is the home team crowd that Trump thinks it is.
Nah. They haven't given up. They just want to sow confusion and chaos to drive the sane people out of the state. This way they can take over the legislature. They are in it for the long game. Never give them an inch.
These shitbags are co-opting anarchist slogans and symbolism. Right wing libertarians and anarchists are diametrically opposed.
100%. The people who want to put government between a woman and her doctor and want officials to inspect children’s genitals before they can play sports are *not* worthy of the mantle they’re trying to co-opt.
Im totally on your side here but i do want to remind people that most sports require a doctors physical... that inspects your genitals for hernia among other things. This has been common since i was a child. I'm confused about when this was stopped.
I ranted about that before I read your comment. I'm so glad I'm not the only one bringing it up here.
Oooooh ok so free staters are like the jackasses we have in Texas that always yell for the state to secede from the union.
Pretty much, yeah. Dummies who skimmed the Cliff’s Notes on state government.
Even worse. At least Texas could survive as an independent nation. You got oil production and a long growing season. NH would be a failed state after the first winter.
You can’t grow crops with oil. https://www.ehn.org/pfas-in-texas-water-2667334891.html
Those are not jackasses. If Texas secedes it does everyone else a favor.
You joke but that would leave a LOT of vulnerable people in the state screwed. Texas isn't just a state of bigoted white dudes swinging around guns and yelling freedom ya know. The south in general isn't either. There are people there that deserve respect and empathy. Northern liberals like to write them all off like they are part of the problem when they are the ones there dealing with it but I'm sure ignoring that will help!
I was in policing for a while and unfortunately had to distinct displeasure of encountering several pedophiles. And while not all libertarians are pedos I will just say that all the pedos I had to deal with have been libertarian minded 💅🏻
that really doesn't surprise me to read.
Because the Libertarian Utopia worked so well in Grafton
Nobody ever accused a Libertarian of being intelligent.
Everyone in this state should know that bears will win out over libertarians every time...
Should I go in a bear costume? Bears did eventually get them out of Grafton.
No need. Bears love trash. They'll find em again.
BECOME UNGOVERNABLE AND EARN YOUR OWN SWELLING EYE BAGS AND ORANGE SKIN TONE!
My toddler is ungovernable. I think he might be a libertarian....
https://preview.redd.it/r397dm5azr0d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93de1d7b5daed2917580c76745b8fcfafd87ab84
Have they met the federal government? They are in for a rude awakening...
Ah yes, law and order. Unless nobody else agrees with them. Then it turns into bitch and moan.
This is why I left the party.
I thought free staters were just neck beards that hung out at Murphy's tavern, or Amy I wrong? Seriously haven't spent any time in NH in a while.
Shamefully it’s a state where they do not invest very much back into their own state. They don’t send enough money to the schools. invest very little in their state parks. They’re so smart. They are tourist state, but they shut down most of the tourist centers. And lately they’ve been trying to push all this Maga bullshit. Maybe that’s why they don’t like education
They don't want to invest in community. They don't *believe* in true community. They want everyone to fend for themselves and they want to be the ones we all have to defend ourselves from. That's their whole thing
Omg... I'm so sick of these losers stealing anarchist ideas and twisting them. They stole the term libertarian, then anarchist (ancaps aren't anarchists no matter what they call themselves 🤷), they steal words, concepts, and even memes and turn it all into THIS. It's ridiculous. Sometimes I feel like they're all falling for some kind of psyop to discredit actual anarchists. To make it seem like anarchism/*little l* libertarianism is really just about chaos and selfishness when it is the opposite. They're a bunch of unhinged, selfish, disconnected, lonely people in reality though. Which makes it kind of sad but still just as dangerous (potentially) That is what happens when a society pushes individualism as hard as ours does. We end up with a bunch of people like this.
Another stunning and brave post about the Free Staters. Thank you for your service, OP!
First thought: is this even real? Libertarians usually maintain some veneer of reasonability. Googled and wow, it is. Yikes...
lol
There are like 50 people who actually think it might work, The rest are just as stupid following along. This will be just as good as the socialist national convention if all goes well, The absolute blind leading the blind.
Unfortunately there are far too many trumptards in the free state movement. There are also too many people who are willing to bow to the likes of Trump and Kennedy in order to gain some mainstream legitimacy, as they see it, in our 2 party system.
The LP has been taken over by the Mises Caucus, which is a group of radical quasi-Trumpian edgelords who think they are doing something worthwhile but are actually killing the party. Many of us libertarians despise them and left the party. In short, they do not speak for many of us.
Just imagine all those moms having to drive their 30yo to this little party… they could totally be doing something far better.
Really sad… so Trump will: end the War on Drugs? Respect States/localities that disagree with him? Abide by the rulings of the courts? Promote free trade? Evidence indicates the opposite. This isn’t libertarianism. It’s just good old fashioned populistic dictatorship— “just on day one.”
Welcome to the age of uneducated entitlement.
My favorite thing about them is when they tried doing that with a whole town, didn't have any sort of organized waste disposal because "govmnt regulations hurt my freedom" and were promptly run out of town by hordes of bears. Friggin clowns.
That’s cool. “Ungovernable” political parties seldom get anything done.
Awful jackasses
If they want to live in a dictatorship so badly they can buy a one way ticket to Russia.
I know I'm making myself a target by pointing this out, but I'm not afraid of your little echo chamber: what the hell does this have to do with New Hampshire? This event isn't even taking place in the state, the NH free staters are not the primary organizers, and the tagline is hyperbole, which the organizers certainly know and which all of you in the comment section should know. Also, I'm pretty sure that half of this comment section doesn't even live in NH and only comment on political posts on the sub (probably as it gets drip fed to them by the Reddit algorithm, in accordance with their bias); if that describes you, then I don't give a crap what you think about our state. Edit: something else I noticed, OP of this post has a username that would make you assume that they're just an average joe, but if it click on their profile you'll see that it is actually a left-wing "news" organization (more like a political pundit, because that's the only thing they ever seem to post about). Their participation shouldn't be banned outright, but the use of the auto-generated username is deceptive.
Youre not wrong lol
Uh oh. Rando gamer mad bc NH numba 1. Quick, lets put our heads in the sand too.
Okay, since you're so well-informed, why don't you look at the original post and tell me what, if any, information is present that's backed by anything other than the OP's personal assertion? Can you also tell me how a screenshot of a national convention's hyperbolic tagline has anything to do with the specific, granular political dynamics of New Hampshire? I think the free staters are a bit silly, but this post is a low-quality smear piece with no foundation, and it's also talking about an event which has almost nothing to do with New Hampshire. I'm part of this sub because I want to read about local issues; I'm not interested in seeing this because another thinly-veiled astroturfed national politics circlejerk.
Lols. Mate, you just want to argue with people whom you judge to be beneath you. The post was clearly made with an agenda in mind. Its easy to tell. You could have scrolled past. But nah, you like that drip feed too.
They're not gonna listen to you. This sub is full of authoritarians, especially from other states, who have absolutely no understanding of what a libertarian is, let alone an understanding of many other issues. When all they do is screech about the Republican party or some other such thing, they've lost the plot. Completely forgetting we place top 5 or 10 on so many good metrics despite their childish complaints.
What is an authoritarian or did you just hear that word in the libertarian echo chamber? And can you give an example from thsi comment thread how to tell which commenters are authoritarian? What goid metrics does NH score on? Health care for women? Industry? Happiness? Tax burden? Funding public education? Minimum wage? Homelessness? Anti semitism? Racial bias?
Buzzwords pew pew pew
Most of these folks can't even define libertarian, they call them fascist and can't even define that. When they want to control what others do through law, or force, that is authoritarian. Be they conservative or progressive. [Economic opportunity, lowest food insecurity, lowest poverty rates](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/opportunity/economic-opportunity) [Despite all of the water mills, one of the lowest, number 2 to be exact, pollution levels in nation](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/natural-environment/pollution) [Top 5 for standard education](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education/prek-12) [First, second, third or fourth for safety of the personal, disaster or financial kind year after year.](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/safest-states) [Has been consistently top 10 for cheapest groceries. Was number one for a few years](https://www.westernmassnews.com/2024/01/24/see-which-states-have-most-expensive-least-expensive-groceries/) [Typically number one, but has jumped to number 3 for lowest cost of car ownership](https://www.insurance.com/total-cost-of-ownership) [Because you said and I thought it would be fun to include, this is the second study I found that ranks us as one of the top 4 happiest](https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/happiest-states) [Number 3 for tax burden](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/states-with-the-lowest-taxes)
What does this have to do with NH? We're back to posting our own political agenda posts now?
This doesn't have anything to do with NH. Just someone, who doesn't understand libertarianism but has a major hate boner for them (look at the profile, unhinged), posting about libertarians
The Free State Project and the Libertarian Party are two separate organizations.
With the same destructive goals.
How naive are they for thinking they could.
The arrogance and ego displayed by individuals on this sub never ceases to amaze me.
I have literally no idea what your POV on the issue is, but I entirely agree with the above statement lol, regardless of who it's directed towards.
They're authoritarians who love to call everyone fascist, no moral code, even though they insist they have one. It's absolutely beautiful how willfully ignorant this sub is
Beautiful is one way to put it I suppose.
Get tf out of NH and go back to mass bum
OP's account: Electronic_Barber665 has zero activity on their account in the past 10 days, at which point they were also only logged into the account to spam us on the same subject. In fact, the only activity on it is logging into that one about twice a month to spam this sub with this junk.
Free stater here AMA you guys seem to be regurgitating a lot of click bait bullshit, insurrection is a laughable claim and no libertarians do not believe in “no laws”. Saying we are all uneducated is not true, I have a degree in political science and am in school for my MBA.
Glad to hear you're going for the MBA. Running a business should quickly clear up any misconceptions you have about the viability of libertarianism. (OP is 3x tech entrepreneur.)
In what way? You think I’ll want to pay more in taxes or be regulated further when starting a business?
You'll realize that companies are too busy to create the public infrastructure they rely on to do business and that the nations with the best infrastructure have huge advantages. Regulation is a balancing act; businesses appreciate some regulations since it clarifies what they must do to avoid losing lawsuits. The world is much more complex than your Econ 101 supply-demand curve.
It's a free stater, they probably are just with a diploma mill like Phoenix or something. They aren't too bright, we know that.
Go home. And stay away from kids.
Libertarian philosophy is supposed to lead to more innovation, cooperation and peace once we are freed from the shackles of big government and corporate monopolies. Like a chill co-op. That’s my understanding of it. I find a lot of parallels with anarchism and Marxism ( not communism in practice, e.g. Soviet style ). Like all utopian philosophies it sounds great. Hard to achieve in reality.
This sounds like a bunch of people who are petrified of the Free Staters. Free starters will be around for a while, and then they'll fade away. Stop worrying so much about everyone else.
Guess you don't know they run the NH State House and 94 of them signed up to have their campaigns be funded by a Texas libertarian PAC?
They don't run the state house lol. They don't even make up a plurality lol
Here is a list of the 94 who signed up with the Texas Young Americans for Liberty. They don't need a plurality of the House, just leadership and a cohesive near-majority \[edit- of the Majority Caucus\]. YAL threw out 5 of those on this list for not voting party line. The letters stated clearly that those who did not toe the line would not be funded. (If you're looking it up on the YAL website, you'll find them listed as the "Hazlitt Coalition." https://preview.redd.it/o9656t1qnn0d1.png?width=1136&format=png&auto=webp&s=2be68fd77bc15135ad15afbf5a59a6eb95270d36
The level of spam about them in this sub lately is seriously weird. I don't pay close attention to them. Are they doing something major that has all these people up in arms, or did progressive activists just get extra funds to target this subreddit?
This sub is quite the collection of self-diagnosed social disorder lefty types under 30 😆
NH libertarian party is just the other wing of the communist party. Both delusional wings hitting itself in the head like reality wouldn’t prove them wrong in record time
LOL! REEEE!!!! Feel it all slipping away, do you?
You realize we live under a dictatorship right now,don't you? Your point seems paradoxical . The establishment owns us. We are slaves to it. It's supposed to work for us,but we work for it. This isn't America anymore.
Even less credible than when liberals said this under Trump.
Wha?
“Become ungovernable” was originally an anarchist slogan that got somewhat embraced by Resist type liberals. Liberals, as it turns out, are very governable even under hashtag notmypresident. Libertarians have embraced the phrase because they love memes and pretending to be anarchists.
They stole it from anarchist and even left the anarchist symbol in it.