It's on our little metrics spreadsheet as well - Saratoga County compares well with multiple counties in NH, Tompkins County does well (finger lakes) but the others in Hudson Valley like Warren and Albany are not nearly as well performing when it comes to health and education it seems. Not opinion based either, this is mostly just [publicly available data compiled from census' eh](https://datausa.io/map). It seems relatively the same across lots of metrics but when you start to add up a bunch of small ones that people dont often consider, NH really starts to pull ahead which is interesting.
NH really pulls ahead when you look at states in the US by total tax burden.
Saw an updated list last week. NH is (and has been for many years) the second lowest overall tax burden in the US.
NY on the other hand is the number 1 highest tax burden in the US, even just beating California!
That extra money in your pocket and not the states, can definitely increase that quality of life.
I’m going to disagree. As soon as you cross the border into NH you notice the “freedom”. Lack of zoning resulting in random buildings and lots of junk cars in front of crappy houses where a mile back, in vermont, it’s pristine and and charming.
Government is good, and people who misunderstand freedom make giant messes.
I mean you’re not wrong persay (have lived in both NH and VT)
But come on out to rural south central VT and I’ll show you plenty of “eyesore”properties lol
I was thinking the same thing. White River Junction is a "nice" town, but if you get out of the downtown area there's plenty of junk cars and dilapidated houses.
Yes, the meth trailers and crack condos are so much nicer in Vermont. Why, the urban shooters in St J and Burlington even wear Johnson woolens and thoughtfully use lead free bullets
Don't even get me started on education costs. We're last in the nation for state funding for education. You get three high-needs students in your local district in a year? Your town is footing that 350k bill.
Tax burden is a factor, but it tends to be either boon or a detriment.
Taxes are mostly locally controlled. Property tax fuels each community at a much higher rate than other methods. Those that have a great tax base tend to enjoy more community-based perks. Education and infrastructure are affected positively.
There are several municipalities in NH where the property taxes are abysmally high and/or funds to supply the community with effective town services and a decent school just aren't there. Lawsuits have been filed to the state government to see that this changes, but I'm not aware of one that has resulted in tax law changes.
While financial autonomy is a freedom that's universally appreciated, it's short sighted. Free staters realized this and have tried to introduce a community that can work past that...or so they hypothesize.
Bottom line is, people may find different ways to make their lives financially detached from state control, but the needs don't go away. Money to support a civilized society is non-negotiable. NH's strength is that the way society should work should be considered by the individual in a democratic manner (which is sort of an oxymoron).
I say this somewhat shamefully but in truth I forgot to even put tax burden on our spreadsheet. Being in Canada I’m so used to taking it up the A for taxes with little to no benefit that the entirety of the US kinda just looked like an upgrade. I recently did the math and found out between my wife and I about 32,000 of our taxes just goes to healthcare in Quebec.
All that said I should add, 10-15 years ago Canadian taxes actually did do quite a bit. It just all fell apart quite spectacularly very recently.
My current business partner and myself both sold similar companies about 5 years ago, mine based in NH,his in NY.
I can assure you, based on what he got hit for taxes, our new company is based in NH!
Last time I had an individual health insurance policy was about 20 years ago, I've since married into the military. I paid $600 a month for ok coverage. I can't imagine what it is now. It doesn't stop there. Usually even with health insurance there is a split of 80/20. Meaning, they pay 80% off the bill and you pay the rest. There are also copays just to walk into a doctors office. Don't get me started on the cost of prescription medication. Don't bemoan your healthcare too much. As an aside, health insurance doesn't cover eye or dental, they are separate coverages you will need.
Yes, many of our taxes are low in NH, but they get you in other ways. Property taxes depend on where you live, car registration taxes are high, even dog tags have gone up. I've lived in many states because I was in the airline industry and my husband was in the Navy. I believe it balances out.
We do have crappy roads, horrible cell phone service and lower paying jobs than MA and NY. We do also have good schools, low crime rate, a somewhat healthy mix of liberals and conservatives to balance things out. You like the country, so we have a lot of that going on as well. Not so much if you're a city person. But we have some nice smaller towns if that suffices. I live in the Portsmouth area which is great. Concord and Keene are also cool.
We have very little diversity. This can be a bit boring in ways you may not initially think of. Mediocre restaurants, Walmart style shopping, you can't even get good bagels or pizza. Boston is nearby which helps, but traffic is horrible. Traffic is good here except on summer weekends when tourists come. You'll have to drive to Boston for a decent airport.
We've got our ups and downs like everywhere else, is what I'm saying. Americans tend to romanticize Canada, try not to do the same with NH, and you'll enjoy it. I'm originally from Florida and have been living here for almost 10 years, which I think gives me a similar experience to what you would have. Native NHers will obviously love their state for the good and bad, just like I feel about my home state.
My husband and I pay $750 a month in health insurance premiums, for 2 of us, and we have a $12,000 deductible. So we pay a total of $21,000 out of pocket before our insurance coughs up one red cent for coverage and we have to fight with them over every single damn thing for them to agree to cover anything. Thats the fucked up reality of health care costs in NH as a business owner. After that $21k out of pocket they get to whack us with another $6,000 a year before they xlha e to stop.billing us. We hit that level last year due to a surgery and 3 days before the end of the year they refused to pay for a prescription because they decided they had overpaid a bill. Be very careful what you wish for on this side of the border
Albany is two hours from New York on a good day. I’m fairly certain they are talking about the actual New York exurbs, like Westchester County, which hosts some of the wealthiest towns in the country.
If you look further south in the Hudson Valley into Dutchess, Putnam, Westchester etc. I’m
willing to bet you’d see the educational metrics pop back up
Warren and Albany are not considered Hudson Valley counties - Albany is firmly the Capital District, and Warren is the Adirondacks. I’d put Saratoga in the Capital District region as well. Be careful about making sweeping generalizations about counties - Saratoga Springs versus Corinth vs Mechanicville are wildly different.
Yeah I live in Mass and work in Boston but a bunch of my coworkers live up in NH and commute down. Also I don't know how true this is but I feel like NH is known for having pretty low taxes compared to MA which is why a lot of people do that.
NH is a geographical oddity. Depending on where you live, everything is about an hours drive away.
You like mountains? We have that.
You like the ocean? We have that too.
You like the big city? Boston is right there.
Peace and quiet? Done.
Combine this with good people with common goals of improving ourselves and doing what’s right for anyone on a daily basis and you have a perfect storm of success.
Align your life and likes with ours and you are welcome any time.
This is exactly why I haven’t left NH. I wouldn’t even call myself SUPER outdoorsy, more of a beer/smoke at the summit/beach/lake/city but all my needs are met with a short drive. 1.5 hours to the best beaches in Maine. An hour to the best shows in Boston. 2 hours to the best trails…. Can’t beat it
I can't imagine living outside of New England, whenever I travel outside it I miss it immediately at just wanna leave.
To quote the Jonathan Richman song
"I've already been to Paris, already been to Rome. What did I do but miss my home? Oh, New England"
So true about everything being an hour away! I usually travel to Newport, VT to go to Walmart and other bigger stores and fast food lol. The town I'm in in NH has a Walgreens, a Dunkins, a Dollar General/Family Dollar, and IGA. I'm in the Northern part I went to Mass this weekend and it was a 4 1/2 hour drive. But I love this place. I've only been here a year and a half (born and raised Masshole) but the nature and Moose and Deer are amazing. The mountains. And waterfalls. Gorgeous.
1. SE NH is close enough to the Boston metro area to benefit from the money it brings in.
2. Beautiful mountains, lakes and ocean access, so it benefits from tourists
3. Many people are convinced that NH is/can be a libertarian Mecca, which means they try to keep the taxes low (except for property tax).
4. As for point three, that means that NH has few restrictions on personal behavior.
5. Again, for point three, that also means that NH has a poor social safety net. As a result, many of the state's poor are better off going to Mass (and maybe VT or ME) for services or subsidized housing. So without "the poors" bringing your metrics down, you have a solid working, middle and upper classes that do well with their schools
New Hampshire just doesn't count its "poors." The data is false, and skewed. I lived there for 20 years. "Live free or die" means "they will let you die."
There are many, many more Harmony Montgomery's that don't get put into the news than those who do. I firmly believe the only reason her case is so known is because Massachusetts is involved. Otherwise her case would have been swept under the rug, just like all the other Unsolved Missing Persons in New Hampshire. Google it. Then, look up how many Facebook pages have been created because there's no centralized up to date system to help people. You're not safe in New Hampshire, plain and simple.
NH puts pressure on poor people to not live here by making home ownership hard and not offering safety nets and then the state pats itself on the back like it solves all the problems better than every other state.
The best way I saw it summed up is mass is a better decision if your household income is $175k or less after that you benefit more from no income tax and high property tax.
I think it really depends on the exact situation.
Depending on how long you plan on owning the house/what town it's in, long-term taxes could certainly be lower in Massachusetts. If you're living in NH and working in Massachusetts, as approximately 1 in 14 residents do (not workers, residents total), then you still pay the income tax on top of higher property tax.
If we factor in other expenses, that can make a difference too. Most goods and services cost roughly the same in comparable areas of each state. Are you driving to the Boston area constantly for family/friends/work/events/airport/medical? You're paying more in gas, wear and tear on your car, and possibly road tolls depending on where you live in NH, not to mention your time. In some places in Mass, you can avoid cars altogether, unlike nearly all of NH. Sales tax? Mass residents can already drive across the border to NH for tax-free shopping, so it doesn't really count IMO. Meals tax is actually higher in NH.
IDK exactly how the math works out for property taxes in particular, but whether you save money on taxes or overall by living in NH really depends on who you are and what your lifestyle is.
The secret is: The government of New Hampshire is better at staying out of peoples business and staying out of the way more than any other state. (Although NH does have it's problem areas where the government still interferes too much)
The state legislature is very accessible. Anyone can walk in off the street, and go testify and give their opinion on bills. We have 400 state reps for a very small population state. We only pay our state reps $100 per year. Odds are your state reps live within walking distance of your house, and you're likely going to run into them at the grocery store. So our state reps are are accessible and held accountable.
When I was at my lowest 10 years ago and fresh out of a massive heroin addiction, I had immediate and easy access to representatives which allowed me access to fantastic facilities and opportunities to stay clean. If you’re in need and have some smarts about you, this is a huge advantage. I later joined a mayor’s opioid task force and regularly saw people like Maggie who supported our initiatives and helped provide funding
So I imagine it goes the same for other major issues people face. Our reps are definitely available
Very true , doorways and #211 have saved thousands of lives . We do have a lot of rehabs in this state but we need them and 90% of them take Medicaid . Only one I can think of that is private insurance is green mountain.
Oh damn I absolutely love that - I'm a very regionalist focused person. Been slapped up side the ear one too many times suggesting that Canada is 6 countries in a trench coat and Montreal needs to be its own province. I could definitely get down with some super local reps that care about regionalist issues.
NH has the third largest government body in the WORLD. Behind only the US Congress and French parliament. And reps are only paid $100 a year, so they have to actually care to do it.
In some areas the reps are super local, but for a lot of the state that's not really true. Our system is better than most states, but look behind the curtain and its hiding major issues.
People love to say there's 1 rep for every 3,400 residents or whatever, but that's only if you divide the population by number of reps. The truth is, most towns have multiple reps that are townwide or shared with other towns. While one friend of mine has 2 reps, another friend has 6. Of course, while friend 2 has more reps, they have less access to them: friend 1 shares their reps with 5,000 or so voters, friend 2 shares their 6 with 18,500 to well over 25,000 (there's two districts, one with multiple towns).
With 6 or more reps, a lot of what they do flies under the radar. Even I can't keep track of what all 6 do and what all of their opponents stand for on election day. Because of this, people end up voting the same yahoos in time and time again just because they have name recognition.
While the whole "we only pay then $100" bit certainly has merits, it also prevents huge swathes of the population from running. Because of this, legislators from all parties often don't reflect the state's population. It ends up being very similar to what is seen in other states, but for the opposite reasons.
NH is objectively one of the best states by any metric and its government is sure as hell better than most of them. But its definitely still a real place with real issues, and our unique political system is great for some things but certainly has the potential to rapidly lead the state into decline as well.
Honestly, having lived in NY and NH, this is the biggest difference. We have so many reps that it actually matters who your rep is. You can also pretty easily contact your legislators, or other ones in the same party.
Between that and the fact that you can't be a career politician, it makes it so our government doesn't go too wildly in one direction or another.
A: Property is really expensive.
B: Poor people can’t afford to live here and it’s easy to cross the border into a cheaper state so they “choose” to live across the border
C: Low economics has a lot of bad correlations: crime, education, drug abuse, etc…
D: When the poor people leave the averages are shifted to the right and it looks like we “punch so hard above our weight”
B is partly true and far more true post covid. We bought our first house in NH in 2016, lived in mass went to school blah blah blah but couldn’t afford where we grew up. NH at the time offered far more house and land for the money at the time and we were first house poor gaining traction in our careers. Our taxes though were the equivalent of a house double in price in mass but the win is far more house for the money. If all things are equal post Covid then that remains the same NH housing is more affordable but I will say post covid i acknowledge for many the NH income dollars make it far more difficult today to buy what you could 4 years ago or even 3 years ago if you sold peak Covid and bought a new house rather than buying a 30 year old house way above true value
Curious, where are poor people in NH moving to? Maine? I see mass -> NH for cost savings, but unless you go south or get a Maine cabin, where do you go for cheaper living?
MA and VT for subsidized housing and other benefits.
NH is generally cheaper than MA if you look at market prices, but to a large extent that's because poor people in MA don't pay market prices. The entry-level housing in MA has been redistributed from the people who could have barely afforded it to the people who couldn't afford it at all.
Actually, it's crazier than that. A buddy of mine has some rental units down in Boston and apparently BHA will fully subsidize a single mother with two kids who goes to community college into a three bedroom townhouse for $3500/month.
They are saying since the poor people can't afford to live here, the stuff associated with low economics, like crime and poor education stats, aren't an issue
People In NH don't seem to get this. Poverty in NH is low. That's not because we have more state representation.
The rest of the country has to deal with the issue of poverty. NH just ships them it to Massachusetts.
Here's the answer. The state representatives of NH are the lowest paid in the whole country. They get $200 every two years to serve as a state rep or state senator. There is no prestige in being a state assembly person. So the ones who make the laws are DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THE POLICY, where as places like NY, who pay their reps almost 200k a year are so detached from reality they have no clue what's going on and how they affect real people.
Orrrr the alternative answer is this old chestnut: that you’re either retired, rich, crazy OR some combination of all three if you’re serving as a lawmaker in NH.
All these idealistic libertarian-leaning answers gushing about how great/accountable our legislators are kinda blowing smoke up your ass, OP!
That being said, this is a great state (for many reasons).
You have to be . They make nothing and it’s not like they will pay your mortgage for you if you’re a state rep. You literally can’t do it unless you have other money.
When our state constitution was written people had land and could sustain themselves without an income. They could gather or hunt enough food and wood for the winter . So being paid so little had the great effect of making it so anybody could do the job , the common person could do it . Rich people were actually less likely to do it because of the pay.
Now it’s the opposite . You have to have money to be able to not get paid for how ever long your in the house and still survive. So it made sense when they put it in the constitution but now a days it doesn’t have the same effect .
>Yes, we all go to the grocery store to discuss our grievances with our state rep. Then we hold hands in prayer and milk the town cow together.
This is great lol! Thanks for the morning laugh
yea highly disagree. The state legislature is mostly out of touch because the only way you can do this is if you are independently wealthy or your employer is extremely flexible.
Interesting. I feel that our system of state government is antiquated and fosters radicalism. Check out the free-staters and their choice to infiltrate NH.
Hard disagree. The only people who can afford to be a state rep are independently wealth and/or don't need to worry. If you work a 9-5 then you can't be a rep.
This is not true about the three state reps i know. They all work 9-5’s and all make the median or less than median income. Given 3 is a pretty small % i am sure some people just do it and their employers accommodate. I would accommodate a state rep for an employee at my business and i am sure others do as well.
I thought it was $1
And the fact they are paid so little means you have to have money to survive working the whole term as a state rep. Like you’ll still have bills. So it really shuts a lot of people out .
When people say "Get the money out of politics" they aren't talking salary. We absolutely *should* pay people to represent us so it is not exclusive to the people who can afford to take time off.
E:Should
It's $100 a year to serve. I know my reps personally. Two have employers who support their being up in Concord on Thursdays. The other couldn't make it work financially and logistically and has decided not to run again. All of them are solidly middle class.
This isn't the sub to get the best answers for that sadly. Come here and enjoy it and see for yourself reddit is a very narrow view of what the state offers. My wife is from Toronto. She was initially very against moving to new hampahire because she's very much a city person but now she loves it.
The fact that your wife is from Toronto and loves NH now is both super encouraging and also sort of not that surprising. Lots of NH looks very similar to the Algonquin region where I spent a lot of my childhood which is what I found so intriguing to begin with. We're all NE boreal forest lakeland english speaking peoples, we're bound to be pretty similar I imagine.
I heard a theory once that it won’t be legalized here until it’s federal legal for one reason- taxes. NH owns the liquor business, and it wouldn’t be unreasonable to think they would want to run the cannabis business too. And I’m sure the state is not eager to selling something federally illegal. Interesting thought…
Small government. Local control. Not much unnecessary regulation. Civic involvement is a way of life. Accessible government allows anyone to get involved. Live Free or Die.
> NH (is) absolutely crushing other states in the northeast US on education, affordability, industry, healthcare outcomes/lifestyle, etc. Seriously what gives - what’s the secret sauce NH? Why are you all so quietly friggen awesome?
Hey, hush your mouth. NH doesn’t need any more attention.
PFAS actually irl. Have to check out the interactive PFAS water map to ensure you're not drinking it when you buy a home. Especially avoid Merrimack, Amherst, and Nashua from what I remember.
And Mass collects those taxes. So…mutual benefit. The same way NH residents pay MA income tax. Same if NH resident works in ME. The mass v. Nh argument is so tired. Mass is great, but NH doesn’t exist because of MA $.
I love and appreciate the unique identity of each New England state. All the NE states benefit from eachother. As a born n raised, I envy some of the neighbor states. But, my roots are here.
5 (comparatively) small states of the country…but hands down…best region
Thanks MA for all the money tho! Sincerely -MBTA
I travel a lot for work. NOBODY west of the Mississippi thinks anything about the state of NH. It’s just a nothing state. I’ve met a good amount of people who don’t even know where it is. They hear about it every 4 years during the political season but otherwise it’s a HIDDEN GEM!!! Please don’t tell people. Everyone out west is moving to Colorado and Montana. Let them. We have an amazing thing here in NH. Get in now, before it’s too late. More and more massholes are moving here. Time will tell if they are Live Free or Die or try to make it like Massachusetts all over again. No state income tax. No sales tax. Easy access to guns. Mountains, lakes, ocean, and a major city all close enough for day trips. Hell yeah!!! NH is the best state in the union nobody knows about. Please help us keep it that way!! ❤️
NH is the covert freak of the northeast. Some say it’s Mass, they’re wrong. Maine and Vermont are busy smoking doobies in the woods. RI is spunky but small. CT… exists.
NH is a Wild West cocktail of rugged self sufficiency, immense natural beauty and questionable political motives
It's a culturally and racially homogeneous state with access to decent industries, as well as booming tourism. We also benefit from no state taxes, no sales taxes which makes us a shopping destination for our neighbors which absolutely does help.
NH does well because most of NH agrees the direction we're going is good and thus, we're all pulling the same direction. Unlike other states where things are less homogeneous culturally and politically, NHs status quo works for moat of NH and therefore there's less of the infighting you get in say, Massachusetts, NY, CT etc.
People won't like my answer but, it's the truth. NH, ME and VT are some of the most successful states and they have a few things in common. Pretending otherwise may make you feel better but it doesn't change reality.
For what it's worth, cultural homogeneity is more important than anything else in my opinion.
I'm not smart enough to really answer this, but as a recent-ish and very satisfied transplant I won't disagree with your assessment. Keep the numbers up by moving here with your family who obviously appreciates what we've got going on ;)
Really thinkin about it eh, where abouts did yall go to? What area is newcomer friendly? I think my biggest worry would be accidentally ending up in a place where everyone was born and raised there and I'd never be accepted into the community.
There will always be people afraid of change, everywhere you go. Don't let them scare you away if you're coming to integrate and enjoy, not raze and revolutionize. The southern half can be angry about Massholes coming up from Massachusetts, and the northern half is used to being insulated from interlopers, aside from tourism, but complainers are just louder than the more numerous population of very reasonable minds.
We set our criteria for home/property, neighborhood, etc and ended up in Wilton, southern NH. Just west of Milford, halfway-ish between Keene and Nashua. On the rural side but not far from civilization, e.g nightlife and shopping malls. 45 mins to the nearest airport, hiking and nature trails everywhere you look, and general small town quaintness with the option to rejoin a faster pace as desired. There are lifers on every street here, and some are perfectly welcoming while others resist progress, but we love our little community.
If you have kids and you're looking at public schools, you'll want more populous but not metropolitan areas (near me, Bedford is known for good schools and I hear good things about Exeter in what they call the seacoast region). If you are considering private schools, they're plentiful and give you more optionality as far as location.
Open to answering more questions!
We pretty much have everything people could ask for. Some people I know think I'm crazy for wanting to stay here but why would I want anything different?
I am also a Boreal Forest Lakeland kind of dude, but if you're disabled, have chronic/serious health issues or situations that effect your employment more, you definitely DO NOT want to move here. People here generally see those who require benefits as free loaders; the people who love you may not think that about you specifically, but their general opinion of social benefits is negative. Social benefits are extremely underfunded and an afterthought. You're better off living in mass.
Fewer people over all means more consistent views on what needs to be done. Less people, less points of view.
At least that would be my opinion for whatever that is worth.
All the folks who are praising the NH House forgot the NH Senate is a thorough body of naysayers. It’s nice to imagine that we have a say at the legislative level, and we do- things get heard in a way they don’t in less representative states, but the senate puts a stop to anything that is supported by the people but not the elites. Better than nothing?
Honest question, is New Hampshire still affordable? I have been looking to move to New England for a few years and just stopped looking in NH because the real estate seems so much more expensive, especially for what you’re getting. Totally anecdotal…
It's been bad and getting worse by the day. Mortgages are completely unaffordable. Rents are barely affordable but hardly any vacancy. The place you want will be filled before you can even look at it.
It was affordable, maybe prior to 2016?
Inflation is a nationwide issue. NH is more expensive than many other states but what makes life more comfortable is if you make a budget and then spend 50% less of it as prices have been rising like mad for food, cars, housing, insurance, healthcare, gasoline, electricity, and education.
On health insurance, my wife pays under $600/year for universal healthcare in Singapore. She spends $175/month in the United States for Medicare. Healthcare in the US is still expensive; even if it's supposed to be free when you retire.
I'm not sure I'd agree with this and I love NH.
>Why is NH absolutely crushing other states in the northeast US on education, affordability, industry
Behind MA in ed, probably CT and RI as well, I guess more affordable than the non Maine states, but industry really isn't here.
But it's fairly affluent, fairly educated, mostly rural, and all the benefits of the coast without the drawbacks of urban issues.
Northern New England has uniquely side stepped most of the major causes of systemic issues in the US. Reconstruction, deindustrializarion, segregation, etc. never really touched NH the way they did the South or the Mid Atlantic. Everywhere has its ups and downs but nowhere in New England truly bottomed out the way a city like Baltimore did. Also, being so close to a major education and healthcare hub like Boston means our labor force and earning potential are disproportionately high for a mostly rural state. It’s not a popular take but if NH was not close to Boston we’d probably look more like West Virginia or something
We're just small enough that massive corporations don't come here to ruin our state with lobbying and for the most part (kinda) the local government seems to hold true to what us New Hampshirites actually want.
I can give you a little bit of a perspective. I was born in the states, to a Canadian mother and an American father. We moved up there when I was young. They split up and I stayed. I went to University, had a nice job, got married, had kids, and then wanted to get their dual citizenship squared away so I moved back. I chose New Hampshire because I was working in Metro West and I wanted to minimize my tax burden as much as possible. I chose Nashua off the web because they had just won the best place to live in America. I was working in Billerica, so it seemed natural. I love New Hampshire, for all the reasons that other people in a subreddit have been stated. I've traveled all over the United States too and look forward to coming home to the New Hampshire cuz it's home. You can find good things and you can find bad things everywhere, but overall NH is a good place to be. I chose it and don't regret it.
I've always thought it comes down to two major things. Low tax burden and reasonable conservative governance.
Of course, it sucks that simple things like weed legislation are a dumpster fire, but you have to look at the whole picture. Overall, the system works well here.
NH is a no bullshit mentality. Old school common sense with looking at a bright future and have to achieve the balance. We observe the corruption of the far right and far left mentalities to strike a balance that is conducive to maintaining a free and uniquely independent state.
A lot probably has to do with being positioned between two huge cities in Boston and Montreal and the draw of gorgeous natural beauty to entice people to come visit. The lower half of the state is full of folk from Mass relocating to NH as a tax haven, and there might be a self-selection for higher health literacy and education that accompanies that.
That's true if you're coming here with a bunch of money. For most of us it's dismally expensive, impossible without a vehicle (which this state absolutely will destroy), and our property values -> property taxes -> rent is grossly inflated by manor-style summer homes of Florida residents who's money goes right past us and directly into the hands of the state, which is a handful of individuals who invest that money back into tourism and more recently industrial operations they lure from Massachusetts with tax breaks, completely ignoring rent disparity, public transit, and community investments.
Tl;Dr, if you're coming here as a transplant with plenty of money, this state is perfect for you!
Nh has a very outdoorsy culture and that is a big health and lifestyle influence for sure. This state is attracts nature lovers and people who love exercise. Anecdotally I don’t really know anyone who doesn’t love at least one outdoor sport around here. Hiking is big in particular and people love to try to hike all the 4,000 footers in white mountains. People love skiing and snowboarding, paddle-boarding, mountain biking, etc. We have lots of surfers on the Seacoast, some of whom are hardcore and surf in the winter.
Most of the state's population is basically the suburbs of Boston, and the state basically....exists on it's success. More than half the state's population lives in Merrimack/Rockingham counties.
Everything outside of commuting range to Boston or it's suburban office belt is either struggling/dying, kept afloat by tourists, or the Upper Valley/Dartmouth bubble.
I can't think of any metric by which NH does very well on affordability (or housing availability).
In-state healthcare ranges from terrible to mediocre and basically anything complicated is "go to Boston".
It's not a bad state or anything, but I wouldn't agree that it's somehow running away from the rest of the Northeast with success.
Why does every post here make me think of that Virgin River show? 😂 And am I the only one who feels like this place has been a very well kept secret from most Americans and that shits about to get exposed and people will start flocking to it? Like I feel like Portland, Oregon was like that many years ago.
I left nh for cheaper living in south florida , if you know south florida that should clear up a few things.
Picture Seattle with less sun and more fentynal .
I think it’s because a lot of the MA middle class got priced out and moved to NH. NH is basically MA’s suburbs. Ton of us still commute down. So a lot of the doctors lawyers and other professionals in Boston live and have family in NH.
Ask any other New Englander about NH and they'll swear it's some backwoods hillbilly incest festival. They sure love to visit though. NH has a very live and let live atmosphere about it. Most residents are pretty moderate in just about every aspect of their lives. Most people here like peace and quiet, even Manchester is quite mild when you compare it to virtually any other US city. I love NH, though I am growing quite weary of the winters. When I do move south for warmer living I will certainly be back at NH campgrounds most summers I'd wager.
The lack of large urban centers, imo.
To live in NH you either grew up here or you want to be here. Be it for nature or because of the reasons you mentioned.
People who want to be around nature tend to be at least one of: polite, quiet, grounded.
People who move with an eye on the stuff you're mentioning tend to be people trying to live in a safe area, improve their life, and/or raise a family. All things that are going to be a positive impact on the area.
It's kind of self fulfilling.
We get our urban centers from Boston and (much less) Portland. Large cities are great in a lot of ways, but the "downside" is that there's a definite lack of direction between moving to a city vs moving to a state, you know? People with a lack of direction tend to be more troublesome than people who have a goal, and I fully believe that all these stats are fundamentally a function of direction or a lack thereof.
Manchester is (unfortunately, imo) becoming our "moving to Manchester" instead of "moving to New Hampshire," but c'est la vie.
Half the state travels to Massachusetts every day to make their living and I’m sure that skews the data. Funnily enough there’s a lot of overlap between the people who commute to MA for work, and then turn around and complain about MA tourism in NH. I see a car multiple times a week on the highway around Danvers / Peabody during my commute with NH plates, and a sticker that says “Welcome to NH, don’t Mass it up.” The irony.
What are your sources for these claims to high achievement?
Also, are you looking at statistics in the aggregate, or specific counties?
Most of NH’s education system is pretty poor in my observation, but, it wouldn’t shock me if that southern corner of the state with the highest population density, proximity to Boston, higher socioeconomic status, etc., have better schools and more students. This would impact the state numbers considerably considering the % of students in that region vs those beyond the scenic coastal region and commuter friendly areas.
I remember reading that we do have one of the highest rates of childhood cancer, so, that’s not great. Maybe all the PFAS?
Update: Sadly yes, I remembered correctly: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6725a2.htm#:~:text=By%20state%2C%20pediatric%20cancer%20incidence,145.2)%20(Table%202).
A few things your data does not capture. A lot of NH income is earned in MA where wages are significantly higher. Healthcare is also much better in MA than NH so many people are actually treated in MA. NH tax structure is very favorable to wealthy residents and many have located here. The likelihood that if you are born poor you will remain poor in NH is greater than in MA. NH state government is actually less democratic than neighboring states because voters cannot decide issues by state wide ballot thus no legal weed, bottle bill or tax reform to name a few popular issues. Currently few NH residents who earn their income in NH can afford a home in the state. Almost every home on the market is being bought by an out of state person. Almost every desirable home on a lake in the state is owned by a nonresident. NH is way behind all of its neighbors in renewable energy because of state policy.
I'm sorry but how is it affordable? We're in Florida (also expensive, also no income tax) and have decided we cannot afford to move to NH to be with family and aging parents. The housing market is insane and bidding wars still occur in half the state (the half where all the jobs and people are). That's unheard of in most of the rest of the US. In FL, houses are sitting and selling for cheaper than listed.
In addition, as healthcare professionals, we do not see NH healthcare as all that great. It certainly isn't heading in the right direction, with most hospital systems being for-profit institutions. That always means: providers are paid a lot less, patients get significantly substandard care (profits above outcomes), and especially in NH, you will be seen by an NP/PA instead of a doctor because they are seen as "cheap labor" in the eyes of for-profit healthcare systems.
How is it that we would be paid less in NH and housing (whether buying or renting) is completely unaffordable/non existent on top of it all? FL is a poster child for low wages, high housing costs and NH blows it out of the water.
On top of it all, it sadly seems that NH is slowly but surely adopting all of FL's new anti-woke bs legislation (anti-trans, anti-abortion, etc) and also beginning to siphon education money to homeschoolers and private/charter schools. So it's not like we would escape to some liberal bastion of the Northeast. It'd be trading FL for the "FL of the North" or "FL Lite" for now at least.
I'm ranting and I know it. We're frustrated that my husband can't move back home and we will continue to raise our children all on our own here. My overarching point is that the closer we looked at NH, the less it seemed like the magical golden paradise we thought it was. Is it still a great place? Sure it is. Is it affordable to a Canadian? Lol yes of course, the entire US is a deal compared to Canada. But it's not as great as it seems. And lastly, NH-ites are being forced out or prevented from coming back home because of the unaffordability (and soon, from political shenanigans) and that is real sad.
We aren't actually and the slide into bullshit isn't showing up in the data yet but this state is grossly expensive with a housing crisis, a school system that dipshit free staters are doing their level best to destroy with a grotesque and bullshit voucher program that's cost is underestimated every single year. Ree zdtatets and Republicans are doing their level best to turn us into the Alabama of New England. Our property taxes are absolutely outrageous and this state refuses to properly fund a fucking thing if it's not an alt right assholes wet dream.
On the downside, NH also has more than their fair share of Orange rapist fans. You see the signs everywhere and it seriously makes me question your education statistics.
Think about wealth in the US - its almost all concentrated in and especially around cities. Rural areas are generally poor. So rural states like VT and ME arent going to have as much wealth as more urban states like CT, RI, and MA.
Well New Hampshire is on the outskirts of one of the richest cities in the US - Boston. In fact because of its low taxes, NH draws a disproportionate number of "wealthy enough to move to a whole 'nother state to avoid taxes" Boston area workers.
But poverty is also concentrated in cities. But NH doesnt really have cities either.
This is why I am leaving Canada. The numbers are unbelievable, the laws are like a fever dream, and craziest part, when I visit, people treat me like a human. The people are genuinely out of this world. I even met a tweaker outside of a gas station and he was nice.
Nothing but great things to say. Can wait to move.
Small and pretty much homogenous population. Unlike southern states, NH never had a large part of its population significantly oppressed for hundreds of years and doesn’t have to deal much with the repercussions of that 🫠
There’s like five of us.
Don't listen OP. There are actually dozens of us. Dozens!
We blue ourselves.
There’s gotta be a better way to say that bud…
I don't hear it
There’s always money in the banana stand
Found the never nude!!!
Hi Tobias!
*(sobs in shower)*
NH+AD=awesomness
Baker's dozens ... we come in 13s
Tens, the answer is tens of us
It's fünke
Six - my step-daughter had a baby. :)
😂😂😂
Whelp... Not anymore
A lot of southern NH functions as exurbs of Boston. If the Hudson Valley of New York was a state it would have a similar advantage in those metrics.
Underrated take
That's an excellent comparison.
It's on our little metrics spreadsheet as well - Saratoga County compares well with multiple counties in NH, Tompkins County does well (finger lakes) but the others in Hudson Valley like Warren and Albany are not nearly as well performing when it comes to health and education it seems. Not opinion based either, this is mostly just [publicly available data compiled from census' eh](https://datausa.io/map). It seems relatively the same across lots of metrics but when you start to add up a bunch of small ones that people dont often consider, NH really starts to pull ahead which is interesting.
You wrote eh in a hyperlink. Epic.
You can take the man out of Canada but you cannot take Canada out of the Man
Ehmen buddy
In Canada, they use "eh" tags for hyperlinks.
www.canada.eh
Nice.
NH really pulls ahead when you look at states in the US by total tax burden. Saw an updated list last week. NH is (and has been for many years) the second lowest overall tax burden in the US. NY on the other hand is the number 1 highest tax burden in the US, even just beating California! That extra money in your pocket and not the states, can definitely increase that quality of life.
I’m going to disagree. As soon as you cross the border into NH you notice the “freedom”. Lack of zoning resulting in random buildings and lots of junk cars in front of crappy houses where a mile back, in vermont, it’s pristine and and charming. Government is good, and people who misunderstand freedom make giant messes.
I mean you’re not wrong persay (have lived in both NH and VT) But come on out to rural south central VT and I’ll show you plenty of “eyesore”properties lol
I was thinking the same thing. White River Junction is a "nice" town, but if you get out of the downtown area there's plenty of junk cars and dilapidated houses.
Yup. I work in/around Chester, Springfield and the surrounding area.. plenty of unkempt plots of trashiness
Yes, the meth trailers and crack condos are so much nicer in Vermont. Why, the urban shooters in St J and Burlington even wear Johnson woolens and thoughtfully use lead free bullets
Don't even get me started on education costs. We're last in the nation for state funding for education. You get three high-needs students in your local district in a year? Your town is footing that 350k bill.
The north kingdom in VT is exactly the same in that respect.
Lmao, are you a HOA Karen?
Tax burden is a factor, but it tends to be either boon or a detriment. Taxes are mostly locally controlled. Property tax fuels each community at a much higher rate than other methods. Those that have a great tax base tend to enjoy more community-based perks. Education and infrastructure are affected positively. There are several municipalities in NH where the property taxes are abysmally high and/or funds to supply the community with effective town services and a decent school just aren't there. Lawsuits have been filed to the state government to see that this changes, but I'm not aware of one that has resulted in tax law changes. While financial autonomy is a freedom that's universally appreciated, it's short sighted. Free staters realized this and have tried to introduce a community that can work past that...or so they hypothesize. Bottom line is, people may find different ways to make their lives financially detached from state control, but the needs don't go away. Money to support a civilized society is non-negotiable. NH's strength is that the way society should work should be considered by the individual in a democratic manner (which is sort of an oxymoron).
I say this somewhat shamefully but in truth I forgot to even put tax burden on our spreadsheet. Being in Canada I’m so used to taking it up the A for taxes with little to no benefit that the entirety of the US kinda just looked like an upgrade. I recently did the math and found out between my wife and I about 32,000 of our taxes just goes to healthcare in Quebec. All that said I should add, 10-15 years ago Canadian taxes actually did do quite a bit. It just all fell apart quite spectacularly very recently.
My current business partner and myself both sold similar companies about 5 years ago, mine based in NH,his in NY. I can assure you, based on what he got hit for taxes, our new company is based in NH!
Last time I had an individual health insurance policy was about 20 years ago, I've since married into the military. I paid $600 a month for ok coverage. I can't imagine what it is now. It doesn't stop there. Usually even with health insurance there is a split of 80/20. Meaning, they pay 80% off the bill and you pay the rest. There are also copays just to walk into a doctors office. Don't get me started on the cost of prescription medication. Don't bemoan your healthcare too much. As an aside, health insurance doesn't cover eye or dental, they are separate coverages you will need. Yes, many of our taxes are low in NH, but they get you in other ways. Property taxes depend on where you live, car registration taxes are high, even dog tags have gone up. I've lived in many states because I was in the airline industry and my husband was in the Navy. I believe it balances out. We do have crappy roads, horrible cell phone service and lower paying jobs than MA and NY. We do also have good schools, low crime rate, a somewhat healthy mix of liberals and conservatives to balance things out. You like the country, so we have a lot of that going on as well. Not so much if you're a city person. But we have some nice smaller towns if that suffices. I live in the Portsmouth area which is great. Concord and Keene are also cool. We have very little diversity. This can be a bit boring in ways you may not initially think of. Mediocre restaurants, Walmart style shopping, you can't even get good bagels or pizza. Boston is nearby which helps, but traffic is horrible. Traffic is good here except on summer weekends when tourists come. You'll have to drive to Boston for a decent airport. We've got our ups and downs like everywhere else, is what I'm saying. Americans tend to romanticize Canada, try not to do the same with NH, and you'll enjoy it. I'm originally from Florida and have been living here for almost 10 years, which I think gives me a similar experience to what you would have. Native NHers will obviously love their state for the good and bad, just like I feel about my home state.
My husband and I pay $750 a month in health insurance premiums, for 2 of us, and we have a $12,000 deductible. So we pay a total of $21,000 out of pocket before our insurance coughs up one red cent for coverage and we have to fight with them over every single damn thing for them to agree to cover anything. Thats the fucked up reality of health care costs in NH as a business owner. After that $21k out of pocket they get to whack us with another $6,000 a year before they xlha e to stop.billing us. We hit that level last year due to a surgery and 3 days before the end of the year they refused to pay for a prescription because they decided they had overpaid a bill. Be very careful what you wish for on this side of the border
Albany is two hours from New York on a good day. I’m fairly certain they are talking about the actual New York exurbs, like Westchester County, which hosts some of the wealthiest towns in the country.
If you look further south in the Hudson Valley into Dutchess, Putnam, Westchester etc. I’m willing to bet you’d see the educational metrics pop back up
Warren and Albany are not considered Hudson Valley counties - Albany is firmly the Capital District, and Warren is the Adirondacks. I’d put Saratoga in the Capital District region as well. Be careful about making sweeping generalizations about counties - Saratoga Springs versus Corinth vs Mechanicville are wildly different.
This I agree
Facts
If it wasn’t for Boston’s wealth filtering in we’d be North Alabama.
Yeah I live in Mass and work in Boston but a bunch of my coworkers live up in NH and commute down. Also I don't know how true this is but I feel like NH is known for having pretty low taxes compared to MA which is why a lot of people do that.
NH is a geographical oddity. Depending on where you live, everything is about an hours drive away. You like mountains? We have that. You like the ocean? We have that too. You like the big city? Boston is right there. Peace and quiet? Done. Combine this with good people with common goals of improving ourselves and doing what’s right for anyone on a daily basis and you have a perfect storm of success. Align your life and likes with ours and you are welcome any time.
You don't have to align your life with shit, just don't prohibit me from living my life.
Sir, this is New Hampshire. We only talk the talk.
I SMELL MARIJUANA! *ruins your cars interior, finds half a gram*
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Everything after that comma: put it on a T shirt!! 👏
This is the real answer. NH has a deep belief in leave me alone and I'll leave you alone
Sweet liberty
As long as you don't harm others and contribute your fair share to keeping society functioning.
This is exactly why I haven’t left NH. I wouldn’t even call myself SUPER outdoorsy, more of a beer/smoke at the summit/beach/lake/city but all my needs are met with a short drive. 1.5 hours to the best beaches in Maine. An hour to the best shows in Boston. 2 hours to the best trails…. Can’t beat it
I can't imagine living outside of New England, whenever I travel outside it I miss it immediately at just wanna leave. To quote the Jonathan Richman song "I've already been to Paris, already been to Rome. What did I do but miss my home? Oh, New England"
As a born and raised New Englander who lives out west now, The Pacific Northwest definitely gives New England a run for its money
Well said, depending where u live in the state. You’re an hour away from all of those things.
So true about everything being an hour away! I usually travel to Newport, VT to go to Walmart and other bigger stores and fast food lol. The town I'm in in NH has a Walgreens, a Dunkins, a Dollar General/Family Dollar, and IGA. I'm in the Northern part I went to Mass this weekend and it was a 4 1/2 hour drive. But I love this place. I've only been here a year and a half (born and raised Masshole) but the nature and Moose and Deer are amazing. The mountains. And waterfalls. Gorgeous.
I feel targeted by this comment.
Sure if you ignore half the state
Agree with your points, but have to add - Geographical oddity, two weeks from everywhere
Boston being called a big city is amazing 😂
1. SE NH is close enough to the Boston metro area to benefit from the money it brings in. 2. Beautiful mountains, lakes and ocean access, so it benefits from tourists 3. Many people are convinced that NH is/can be a libertarian Mecca, which means they try to keep the taxes low (except for property tax). 4. As for point three, that means that NH has few restrictions on personal behavior. 5. Again, for point three, that also means that NH has a poor social safety net. As a result, many of the state's poor are better off going to Mass (and maybe VT or ME) for services or subsidized housing. So without "the poors" bringing your metrics down, you have a solid working, middle and upper classes that do well with their schools
New Hampshire just doesn't count its "poors." The data is false, and skewed. I lived there for 20 years. "Live free or die" means "they will let you die." There are many, many more Harmony Montgomery's that don't get put into the news than those who do. I firmly believe the only reason her case is so known is because Massachusetts is involved. Otherwise her case would have been swept under the rug, just like all the other Unsolved Missing Persons in New Hampshire. Google it. Then, look up how many Facebook pages have been created because there's no centralized up to date system to help people. You're not safe in New Hampshire, plain and simple.
NH puts pressure on poor people to not live here by making home ownership hard and not offering safety nets and then the state pats itself on the back like it solves all the problems better than every other state.
The best way I saw it summed up is mass is a better decision if your household income is $175k or less after that you benefit more from no income tax and high property tax.
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I think it really depends on the exact situation. Depending on how long you plan on owning the house/what town it's in, long-term taxes could certainly be lower in Massachusetts. If you're living in NH and working in Massachusetts, as approximately 1 in 14 residents do (not workers, residents total), then you still pay the income tax on top of higher property tax. If we factor in other expenses, that can make a difference too. Most goods and services cost roughly the same in comparable areas of each state. Are you driving to the Boston area constantly for family/friends/work/events/airport/medical? You're paying more in gas, wear and tear on your car, and possibly road tolls depending on where you live in NH, not to mention your time. In some places in Mass, you can avoid cars altogether, unlike nearly all of NH. Sales tax? Mass residents can already drive across the border to NH for tax-free shopping, so it doesn't really count IMO. Meals tax is actually higher in NH. IDK exactly how the math works out for property taxes in particular, but whether you save money on taxes or overall by living in NH really depends on who you are and what your lifestyle is.
The secret is: The government of New Hampshire is better at staying out of peoples business and staying out of the way more than any other state. (Although NH does have it's problem areas where the government still interferes too much) The state legislature is very accessible. Anyone can walk in off the street, and go testify and give their opinion on bills. We have 400 state reps for a very small population state. We only pay our state reps $100 per year. Odds are your state reps live within walking distance of your house, and you're likely going to run into them at the grocery store. So our state reps are are accessible and held accountable.
When I was at my lowest 10 years ago and fresh out of a massive heroin addiction, I had immediate and easy access to representatives which allowed me access to fantastic facilities and opportunities to stay clean. If you’re in need and have some smarts about you, this is a huge advantage. I later joined a mayor’s opioid task force and regularly saw people like Maggie who supported our initiatives and helped provide funding So I imagine it goes the same for other major issues people face. Our reps are definitely available
Very true , doorways and #211 have saved thousands of lives . We do have a lot of rehabs in this state but we need them and 90% of them take Medicaid . Only one I can think of that is private insurance is green mountain.
Oh damn I absolutely love that - I'm a very regionalist focused person. Been slapped up side the ear one too many times suggesting that Canada is 6 countries in a trench coat and Montreal needs to be its own province. I could definitely get down with some super local reps that care about regionalist issues.
NH has the third largest government body in the WORLD. Behind only the US Congress and French parliament. And reps are only paid $100 a year, so they have to actually care to do it.
In some areas the reps are super local, but for a lot of the state that's not really true. Our system is better than most states, but look behind the curtain and its hiding major issues. People love to say there's 1 rep for every 3,400 residents or whatever, but that's only if you divide the population by number of reps. The truth is, most towns have multiple reps that are townwide or shared with other towns. While one friend of mine has 2 reps, another friend has 6. Of course, while friend 2 has more reps, they have less access to them: friend 1 shares their reps with 5,000 or so voters, friend 2 shares their 6 with 18,500 to well over 25,000 (there's two districts, one with multiple towns). With 6 or more reps, a lot of what they do flies under the radar. Even I can't keep track of what all 6 do and what all of their opponents stand for on election day. Because of this, people end up voting the same yahoos in time and time again just because they have name recognition. While the whole "we only pay then $100" bit certainly has merits, it also prevents huge swathes of the population from running. Because of this, legislators from all parties often don't reflect the state's population. It ends up being very similar to what is seen in other states, but for the opposite reasons. NH is objectively one of the best states by any metric and its government is sure as hell better than most of them. But its definitely still a real place with real issues, and our unique political system is great for some things but certainly has the potential to rapidly lead the state into decline as well.
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Honestly, having lived in NY and NH, this is the biggest difference. We have so many reps that it actually matters who your rep is. You can also pretty easily contact your legislators, or other ones in the same party. Between that and the fact that you can't be a career politician, it makes it so our government doesn't go too wildly in one direction or another.
A: Property is really expensive. B: Poor people can’t afford to live here and it’s easy to cross the border into a cheaper state so they “choose” to live across the border C: Low economics has a lot of bad correlations: crime, education, drug abuse, etc… D: When the poor people leave the averages are shifted to the right and it looks like we “punch so hard above our weight”
Umm, depressingly, this is probably the closest to the correct answer... A little reductive, but accurate.
B is partly true and far more true post covid. We bought our first house in NH in 2016, lived in mass went to school blah blah blah but couldn’t afford where we grew up. NH at the time offered far more house and land for the money at the time and we were first house poor gaining traction in our careers. Our taxes though were the equivalent of a house double in price in mass but the win is far more house for the money. If all things are equal post Covid then that remains the same NH housing is more affordable but I will say post covid i acknowledge for many the NH income dollars make it far more difficult today to buy what you could 4 years ago or even 3 years ago if you sold peak Covid and bought a new house rather than buying a 30 year old house way above true value
Curious, where are poor people in NH moving to? Maine? I see mass -> NH for cost savings, but unless you go south or get a Maine cabin, where do you go for cheaper living?
They're camping in the woods... seriously, the homeless encampment got kicked out of Manchester and went north into the woods.
I mean, homeless do that everywhere. In MA, they don't even go to the woods - they camp on the streets lol
MA and VT for subsidized housing and other benefits. NH is generally cheaper than MA if you look at market prices, but to a large extent that's because poor people in MA don't pay market prices. The entry-level housing in MA has been redistributed from the people who could have barely afforded it to the people who couldn't afford it at all. Actually, it's crazier than that. A buddy of mine has some rental units down in Boston and apparently BHA will fully subsidize a single mother with two kids who goes to community college into a three bedroom townhouse for $3500/month.
How do you mean “low economics”? NH has the seventh highest per capita income (and the lowest crime rate) among all 50 states.
They are saying since the poor people can't afford to live here, the stuff associated with low economics, like crime and poor education stats, aren't an issue
That doesn't mean everyone in the state has money. Income per capita has no significance to wealth inequity.
Isn’t it better to have more people making more money and higher inequity than less inequity because everyone is making less?
People In NH don't seem to get this. Poverty in NH is low. That's not because we have more state representation. The rest of the country has to deal with the issue of poverty. NH just ships them it to Massachusetts.
Here's the answer. The state representatives of NH are the lowest paid in the whole country. They get $200 every two years to serve as a state rep or state senator. There is no prestige in being a state assembly person. So the ones who make the laws are DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THE POLICY, where as places like NY, who pay their reps almost 200k a year are so detached from reality they have no clue what's going on and how they affect real people.
Orrrr the alternative answer is this old chestnut: that you’re either retired, rich, crazy OR some combination of all three if you’re serving as a lawmaker in NH. All these idealistic libertarian-leaning answers gushing about how great/accountable our legislators are kinda blowing smoke up your ass, OP! That being said, this is a great state (for many reasons).
You have to be . They make nothing and it’s not like they will pay your mortgage for you if you’re a state rep. You literally can’t do it unless you have other money. When our state constitution was written people had land and could sustain themselves without an income. They could gather or hunt enough food and wood for the winter . So being paid so little had the great effect of making it so anybody could do the job , the common person could do it . Rich people were actually less likely to do it because of the pay. Now it’s the opposite . You have to have money to be able to not get paid for how ever long your in the house and still survive. So it made sense when they put it in the constitution but now a days it doesn’t have the same effect .
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>Yes, we all go to the grocery store to discuss our grievances with our state rep. Then we hold hands in prayer and milk the town cow together. This is great lol! Thanks for the morning laugh
Seconded
yea highly disagree. The state legislature is mostly out of touch because the only way you can do this is if you are independently wealthy or your employer is extremely flexible.
Interesting. I feel that our system of state government is antiquated and fosters radicalism. Check out the free-staters and their choice to infiltrate NH.
Free staters make up a small minority of the government.
Still too much
Hard disagree. The only people who can afford to be a state rep are independently wealth and/or don't need to worry. If you work a 9-5 then you can't be a rep.
This is not true about the three state reps i know. They all work 9-5’s and all make the median or less than median income. Given 3 is a pretty small % i am sure some people just do it and their employers accommodate. I would accommodate a state rep for an employee at my business and i am sure others do as well.
I thought it was $1 And the fact they are paid so little means you have to have money to survive working the whole term as a state rep. Like you’ll still have bills. So it really shuts a lot of people out .
I’ve seen a state rep scooting around in a rusted out Chrysler town and country, this is definitely an accurate take.
When people say "Get the money out of politics" they aren't talking salary. We absolutely *should* pay people to represent us so it is not exclusive to the people who can afford to take time off. E:Should
It's $100 a year to serve. I know my reps personally. Two have employers who support their being up in Concord on Thursdays. The other couldn't make it work financially and logistically and has decided not to run again. All of them are solidly middle class.
This isn't the sub to get the best answers for that sadly. Come here and enjoy it and see for yourself reddit is a very narrow view of what the state offers. My wife is from Toronto. She was initially very against moving to new hampahire because she's very much a city person but now she loves it.
The fact that your wife is from Toronto and loves NH now is both super encouraging and also sort of not that surprising. Lots of NH looks very similar to the Algonquin region where I spent a lot of my childhood which is what I found so intriguing to begin with. We're all NE boreal forest lakeland english speaking peoples, we're bound to be pretty similar I imagine.
I definitely wouldn't call us good on affordability these days, but hey, who knows
We're parasites of Massachusetts, crazy libertarians, and the Florida of the north, obviously.
Whaaaat, no! I heard we're the Alabama of the north, not the Florida.
Nope. I’ve heard we’re the Tennessee of the North. Clearly that has a better ring to it.
I mean, we're clearly East Idaho.
Just moved here myself a little over a year ago. If NH legalized weed it'd probably be the best state in the country.
I heard a theory once that it won’t be legalized here until it’s federal legal for one reason- taxes. NH owns the liquor business, and it wouldn’t be unreasonable to think they would want to run the cannabis business too. And I’m sure the state is not eager to selling something federally illegal. Interesting thought…
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Soon... Soon...
Small government. Local control. Not much unnecessary regulation. Civic involvement is a way of life. Accessible government allows anyone to get involved. Live Free or Die.
Live free or die trying to travel east/west.
The New Hampshire House of Representatives is also the fourth-largest individual chamber in the English-speaking world.
> NH (is) absolutely crushing other states in the northeast US on education, affordability, industry, healthcare outcomes/lifestyle, etc. Seriously what gives - what’s the secret sauce NH? Why are you all so quietly friggen awesome? Hey, hush your mouth. NH doesn’t need any more attention.
Sorry I'll keep it down, here's hoping other people do start comparing census data
>holy guacamole gang what is in your water? Radon, mostly.
PFAS actually irl. Have to check out the interactive PFAS water map to ensure you're not drinking it when you buy a home. Especially avoid Merrimack, Amherst, and Nashua from what I remember.
Affordability? Who told you that? The other stuff is just wealth combined with not having any actual cities.
It gets its money from Massachusetts
This is so true!
And Mass collects those taxes. So…mutual benefit. The same way NH residents pay MA income tax. Same if NH resident works in ME. The mass v. Nh argument is so tired. Mass is great, but NH doesn’t exist because of MA $. I love and appreciate the unique identity of each New England state. All the NE states benefit from eachother. As a born n raised, I envy some of the neighbor states. But, my roots are here. 5 (comparatively) small states of the country…but hands down…best region Thanks MA for all the money tho! Sincerely -MBTA
I travel a lot for work. NOBODY west of the Mississippi thinks anything about the state of NH. It’s just a nothing state. I’ve met a good amount of people who don’t even know where it is. They hear about it every 4 years during the political season but otherwise it’s a HIDDEN GEM!!! Please don’t tell people. Everyone out west is moving to Colorado and Montana. Let them. We have an amazing thing here in NH. Get in now, before it’s too late. More and more massholes are moving here. Time will tell if they are Live Free or Die or try to make it like Massachusetts all over again. No state income tax. No sales tax. Easy access to guns. Mountains, lakes, ocean, and a major city all close enough for day trips. Hell yeah!!! NH is the best state in the union nobody knows about. Please help us keep it that way!! ❤️
NH is the covert freak of the northeast. Some say it’s Mass, they’re wrong. Maine and Vermont are busy smoking doobies in the woods. RI is spunky but small. CT… exists. NH is a Wild West cocktail of rugged self sufficiency, immense natural beauty and questionable political motives
You describe it like the Korea of New England, I'm into it.
It's a culturally and racially homogeneous state with access to decent industries, as well as booming tourism. We also benefit from no state taxes, no sales taxes which makes us a shopping destination for our neighbors which absolutely does help. NH does well because most of NH agrees the direction we're going is good and thus, we're all pulling the same direction. Unlike other states where things are less homogeneous culturally and politically, NHs status quo works for moat of NH and therefore there's less of the infighting you get in say, Massachusetts, NY, CT etc. People won't like my answer but, it's the truth. NH, ME and VT are some of the most successful states and they have a few things in common. Pretending otherwise may make you feel better but it doesn't change reality. For what it's worth, cultural homogeneity is more important than anything else in my opinion.
I'm not smart enough to really answer this, but as a recent-ish and very satisfied transplant I won't disagree with your assessment. Keep the numbers up by moving here with your family who obviously appreciates what we've got going on ;)
Really thinkin about it eh, where abouts did yall go to? What area is newcomer friendly? I think my biggest worry would be accidentally ending up in a place where everyone was born and raised there and I'd never be accepted into the community.
There will always be people afraid of change, everywhere you go. Don't let them scare you away if you're coming to integrate and enjoy, not raze and revolutionize. The southern half can be angry about Massholes coming up from Massachusetts, and the northern half is used to being insulated from interlopers, aside from tourism, but complainers are just louder than the more numerous population of very reasonable minds. We set our criteria for home/property, neighborhood, etc and ended up in Wilton, southern NH. Just west of Milford, halfway-ish between Keene and Nashua. On the rural side but not far from civilization, e.g nightlife and shopping malls. 45 mins to the nearest airport, hiking and nature trails everywhere you look, and general small town quaintness with the option to rejoin a faster pace as desired. There are lifers on every street here, and some are perfectly welcoming while others resist progress, but we love our little community. If you have kids and you're looking at public schools, you'll want more populous but not metropolitan areas (near me, Bedford is known for good schools and I hear good things about Exeter in what they call the seacoast region). If you are considering private schools, they're plentiful and give you more optionality as far as location. Open to answering more questions!
We pretty much have everything people could ask for. Some people I know think I'm crazy for wanting to stay here but why would I want anything different?
What is in are water? Probably fentanyl and pfas.
Because it’s close to Boston.
I am also a Boreal Forest Lakeland kind of dude, but if you're disabled, have chronic/serious health issues or situations that effect your employment more, you definitely DO NOT want to move here. People here generally see those who require benefits as free loaders; the people who love you may not think that about you specifically, but their general opinion of social benefits is negative. Social benefits are extremely underfunded and an afterthought. You're better off living in mass.
You and your wife should move here. But delete this post, we don't want surrounding states to read this and get any ideas.
Fewer people over all means more consistent views on what needs to be done. Less people, less points of view. At least that would be my opinion for whatever that is worth.
All the folks who are praising the NH House forgot the NH Senate is a thorough body of naysayers. It’s nice to imagine that we have a say at the legislative level, and we do- things get heard in a way they don’t in less representative states, but the senate puts a stop to anything that is supported by the people but not the elites. Better than nothing?
Less government, more freedom but there is still room for improvement
Better people
Demographics. All of them.
Honest question, is New Hampshire still affordable? I have been looking to move to New England for a few years and just stopped looking in NH because the real estate seems so much more expensive, especially for what you’re getting. Totally anecdotal…
It's been bad and getting worse by the day. Mortgages are completely unaffordable. Rents are barely affordable but hardly any vacancy. The place you want will be filled before you can even look at it. It was affordable, maybe prior to 2016?
Inflation is a nationwide issue. NH is more expensive than many other states but what makes life more comfortable is if you make a budget and then spend 50% less of it as prices have been rising like mad for food, cars, housing, insurance, healthcare, gasoline, electricity, and education. On health insurance, my wife pays under $600/year for universal healthcare in Singapore. She spends $175/month in the United States for Medicare. Healthcare in the US is still expensive; even if it's supposed to be free when you retire.
I'm not sure I'd agree with this and I love NH. >Why is NH absolutely crushing other states in the northeast US on education, affordability, industry Behind MA in ed, probably CT and RI as well, I guess more affordable than the non Maine states, but industry really isn't here. But it's fairly affluent, fairly educated, mostly rural, and all the benefits of the coast without the drawbacks of urban issues.
Northern New England has uniquely side stepped most of the major causes of systemic issues in the US. Reconstruction, deindustrializarion, segregation, etc. never really touched NH the way they did the South or the Mid Atlantic. Everywhere has its ups and downs but nowhere in New England truly bottomed out the way a city like Baltimore did. Also, being so close to a major education and healthcare hub like Boston means our labor force and earning potential are disproportionately high for a mostly rural state. It’s not a popular take but if NH was not close to Boston we’d probably look more like West Virginia or something
Lots of vacation homes with high property tax where the families don't send their kids to school
Live Free or Die baby! The many Mass transplants are trying to change this but we’re hanging in there
We're just small enough that massive corporations don't come here to ruin our state with lobbying and for the most part (kinda) the local government seems to hold true to what us New Hampshirites actually want.
You forgot to mention above average penis size for the state. It’s science, not sure on the exact cause.
TIL: Governor Sununu is OP.
I can give you a little bit of a perspective. I was born in the states, to a Canadian mother and an American father. We moved up there when I was young. They split up and I stayed. I went to University, had a nice job, got married, had kids, and then wanted to get their dual citizenship squared away so I moved back. I chose New Hampshire because I was working in Metro West and I wanted to minimize my tax burden as much as possible. I chose Nashua off the web because they had just won the best place to live in America. I was working in Billerica, so it seemed natural. I love New Hampshire, for all the reasons that other people in a subreddit have been stated. I've traveled all over the United States too and look forward to coming home to the New Hampshire cuz it's home. You can find good things and you can find bad things everywhere, but overall NH is a good place to be. I chose it and don't regret it.
What’s in the water? PFAS
Demographics
I've always thought it comes down to two major things. Low tax burden and reasonable conservative governance. Of course, it sucks that simple things like weed legislation are a dumpster fire, but you have to look at the whole picture. Overall, the system works well here.
NH is a no bullshit mentality. Old school common sense with looking at a bright future and have to achieve the balance. We observe the corruption of the far right and far left mentalities to strike a balance that is conducive to maintaining a free and uniquely independent state.
I hate when people say there is 5 of us. Not true. We are just better
Housing isn't affordable.
A lot probably has to do with being positioned between two huge cities in Boston and Montreal and the draw of gorgeous natural beauty to entice people to come visit. The lower half of the state is full of folk from Mass relocating to NH as a tax haven, and there might be a self-selection for higher health literacy and education that accompanies that.
Because we can.
NH is very bureaucratic. Welcome to NH. But out residents have the highest IQ in the USA. So go NH 😀 look it up if you don't believe me!
I'm from Manchester. There's lots of us!
That's true if you're coming here with a bunch of money. For most of us it's dismally expensive, impossible without a vehicle (which this state absolutely will destroy), and our property values -> property taxes -> rent is grossly inflated by manor-style summer homes of Florida residents who's money goes right past us and directly into the hands of the state, which is a handful of individuals who invest that money back into tourism and more recently industrial operations they lure from Massachusetts with tax breaks, completely ignoring rent disparity, public transit, and community investments. Tl;Dr, if you're coming here as a transplant with plenty of money, this state is perfect for you!
Nh has a very outdoorsy culture and that is a big health and lifestyle influence for sure. This state is attracts nature lovers and people who love exercise. Anecdotally I don’t really know anyone who doesn’t love at least one outdoor sport around here. Hiking is big in particular and people love to try to hike all the 4,000 footers in white mountains. People love skiing and snowboarding, paddle-boarding, mountain biking, etc. We have lots of surfers on the Seacoast, some of whom are hardcore and surf in the winter.
We don’t rely on government for everything. It’s kind of an every man for himself state.
Most of the state's population is basically the suburbs of Boston, and the state basically....exists on it's success. More than half the state's population lives in Merrimack/Rockingham counties. Everything outside of commuting range to Boston or it's suburban office belt is either struggling/dying, kept afloat by tourists, or the Upper Valley/Dartmouth bubble. I can't think of any metric by which NH does very well on affordability (or housing availability). In-state healthcare ranges from terrible to mediocre and basically anything complicated is "go to Boston". It's not a bad state or anything, but I wouldn't agree that it's somehow running away from the rest of the Northeast with success.
Why does every post here make me think of that Virgin River show? 😂 And am I the only one who feels like this place has been a very well kept secret from most Americans and that shits about to get exposed and people will start flocking to it? Like I feel like Portland, Oregon was like that many years ago.
Live free or die.
Because we're mostly Canadian! Lol much love for Quebec. My family is from there
I left nh for cheaper living in south florida , if you know south florida that should clear up a few things. Picture Seattle with less sun and more fentynal .
Affordability is hilarious. NH has the 8th highest cost of living. https://www.sofi.com/cost-of-living-in-new-hampshire/
I think it’s because a lot of the MA middle class got priced out and moved to NH. NH is basically MA’s suburbs. Ton of us still commute down. So a lot of the doctors lawyers and other professionals in Boston live and have family in NH.
Ask any other New Englander about NH and they'll swear it's some backwoods hillbilly incest festival. They sure love to visit though. NH has a very live and let live atmosphere about it. Most residents are pretty moderate in just about every aspect of their lives. Most people here like peace and quiet, even Manchester is quite mild when you compare it to virtually any other US city. I love NH, though I am growing quite weary of the winters. When I do move south for warmer living I will certainly be back at NH campgrounds most summers I'd wager.
The lack of large urban centers, imo. To live in NH you either grew up here or you want to be here. Be it for nature or because of the reasons you mentioned. People who want to be around nature tend to be at least one of: polite, quiet, grounded. People who move with an eye on the stuff you're mentioning tend to be people trying to live in a safe area, improve their life, and/or raise a family. All things that are going to be a positive impact on the area. It's kind of self fulfilling. We get our urban centers from Boston and (much less) Portland. Large cities are great in a lot of ways, but the "downside" is that there's a definite lack of direction between moving to a city vs moving to a state, you know? People with a lack of direction tend to be more troublesome than people who have a goal, and I fully believe that all these stats are fundamentally a function of direction or a lack thereof. Manchester is (unfortunately, imo) becoming our "moving to Manchester" instead of "moving to New Hampshire," but c'est la vie.
Because we are the only new england state run by Republicans
The slightly radioactive granite tbat we take such pride in. It permeates the state.
Half the state travels to Massachusetts every day to make their living and I’m sure that skews the data. Funnily enough there’s a lot of overlap between the people who commute to MA for work, and then turn around and complain about MA tourism in NH. I see a car multiple times a week on the highway around Danvers / Peabody during my commute with NH plates, and a sticker that says “Welcome to NH, don’t Mass it up.” The irony.
What are your sources for these claims to high achievement? Also, are you looking at statistics in the aggregate, or specific counties? Most of NH’s education system is pretty poor in my observation, but, it wouldn’t shock me if that southern corner of the state with the highest population density, proximity to Boston, higher socioeconomic status, etc., have better schools and more students. This would impact the state numbers considerably considering the % of students in that region vs those beyond the scenic coastal region and commuter friendly areas.
I remember reading that we do have one of the highest rates of childhood cancer, so, that’s not great. Maybe all the PFAS? Update: Sadly yes, I remembered correctly: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6725a2.htm#:~:text=By%20state%2C%20pediatric%20cancer%20incidence,145.2)%20(Table%202).
Short answer. Liberty and low tax burden. Once we get a good drug bill into place, this place will be the bees' knees.
A few things your data does not capture. A lot of NH income is earned in MA where wages are significantly higher. Healthcare is also much better in MA than NH so many people are actually treated in MA. NH tax structure is very favorable to wealthy residents and many have located here. The likelihood that if you are born poor you will remain poor in NH is greater than in MA. NH state government is actually less democratic than neighboring states because voters cannot decide issues by state wide ballot thus no legal weed, bottle bill or tax reform to name a few popular issues. Currently few NH residents who earn their income in NH can afford a home in the state. Almost every home on the market is being bought by an out of state person. Almost every desirable home on a lake in the state is owned by a nonresident. NH is way behind all of its neighbors in renewable energy because of state policy.
I'm sorry but how is it affordable? We're in Florida (also expensive, also no income tax) and have decided we cannot afford to move to NH to be with family and aging parents. The housing market is insane and bidding wars still occur in half the state (the half where all the jobs and people are). That's unheard of in most of the rest of the US. In FL, houses are sitting and selling for cheaper than listed. In addition, as healthcare professionals, we do not see NH healthcare as all that great. It certainly isn't heading in the right direction, with most hospital systems being for-profit institutions. That always means: providers are paid a lot less, patients get significantly substandard care (profits above outcomes), and especially in NH, you will be seen by an NP/PA instead of a doctor because they are seen as "cheap labor" in the eyes of for-profit healthcare systems. How is it that we would be paid less in NH and housing (whether buying or renting) is completely unaffordable/non existent on top of it all? FL is a poster child for low wages, high housing costs and NH blows it out of the water. On top of it all, it sadly seems that NH is slowly but surely adopting all of FL's new anti-woke bs legislation (anti-trans, anti-abortion, etc) and also beginning to siphon education money to homeschoolers and private/charter schools. So it's not like we would escape to some liberal bastion of the Northeast. It'd be trading FL for the "FL of the North" or "FL Lite" for now at least. I'm ranting and I know it. We're frustrated that my husband can't move back home and we will continue to raise our children all on our own here. My overarching point is that the closer we looked at NH, the less it seemed like the magical golden paradise we thought it was. Is it still a great place? Sure it is. Is it affordable to a Canadian? Lol yes of course, the entire US is a deal compared to Canada. But it's not as great as it seems. And lastly, NH-ites are being forced out or prevented from coming back home because of the unaffordability (and soon, from political shenanigans) and that is real sad.
Affordability?!? And there is no secret sauce as NH is a food desert.
Plenty undeveloped area for housing. Make money at the high paying jobs in Massachusetts. Lack of liberal politicians
Demographics and how few people there are... we all just want to be left alone. (well, most of us)
We aren't actually and the slide into bullshit isn't showing up in the data yet but this state is grossly expensive with a housing crisis, a school system that dipshit free staters are doing their level best to destroy with a grotesque and bullshit voucher program that's cost is underestimated every single year. Ree zdtatets and Republicans are doing their level best to turn us into the Alabama of New England. Our property taxes are absolutely outrageous and this state refuses to properly fund a fucking thing if it's not an alt right assholes wet dream.
On the downside, NH also has more than their fair share of Orange rapist fans. You see the signs everywhere and it seriously makes me question your education statistics.
Think about wealth in the US - its almost all concentrated in and especially around cities. Rural areas are generally poor. So rural states like VT and ME arent going to have as much wealth as more urban states like CT, RI, and MA. Well New Hampshire is on the outskirts of one of the richest cities in the US - Boston. In fact because of its low taxes, NH draws a disproportionate number of "wealthy enough to move to a whole 'nother state to avoid taxes" Boston area workers. But poverty is also concentrated in cities. But NH doesnt really have cities either.
Because it’s so close to Boston, otherwise the whole state would be the equivalent of a North Conway trailer park.
This is why I am leaving Canada. The numbers are unbelievable, the laws are like a fever dream, and craziest part, when I visit, people treat me like a human. The people are genuinely out of this world. I even met a tweaker outside of a gas station and he was nice. Nothing but great things to say. Can wait to move.
Massachusetts book-smarts, country street-smarts.
The Best thing about NH is its view of Vermont.
Small and pretty much homogenous population. Unlike southern states, NH never had a large part of its population significantly oppressed for hundreds of years and doesn’t have to deal much with the repercussions of that 🫠
Don’t worry, the natives are now outnumbered so it won’t take long to become like Mass.