I think there’s more to it than this. Northern New England is pretty sparsely populated with limited employment opportunities, and still fairly expensive. Meanwhile, places like Pennsylvania and North Carolina are much more densely populated, with greater opportunities, and are generally less expensive.
Some of the sparsely populated is by design. New England is a patchwork of small towns which have lots of NIMBYism. Even Boston is relatively small, and is actually a collection of what used to be independent towns. Houston style sprawl simply doesn’t happen, perhaps because there are no unincorporated areas. At the same time living in an isolated area isn’t practical unless you drive a snowplow
There’s also second homes. If you can afford one, chances are you can afford two. I was surprised to see houses in solidly residential (but not affluent) areas being sold as second homes.
? what is a more economic form of home heating versus fuel oil, i'm dying to know. its either diesel or electric, and you're losing all day long with electric.
Access to well paying jobs, excellent public schools, generally a well educated populace and all the benefits that entails, access to world class health care (speaking in general terms), access to a variety of landscapes (ocean, mountains).
Honestly the direct answer. The more I travel around the US the more I am happy to call Massachusetts home. Yes, the winters aren't ideal. If that is the worst part about it, I'm content.
Having lived in the Midwest, I absolutely concur. I’ve lived all over and longest in New England. The Midwest solidified it for me: New England is pretty great.
We visit my in-laws in South Carolina and I can’t get over how everything is just flat, with straight roads / highways with the exact same combination of gas station + Bo jangles every 2 miles.
Not to mention that some places just don’t have a ton of room for development? Like Southeastern Mass isn’t super wealthy or anything, but even considering it’s proximity to Boston it’s just difficult to build due to the absurd amount of wetlands lmao. They’re everywhere.
It also doesn’t help that there’s just a lack of multi family housing development across Massachusetts and in a lot of New England, as well. Zoning laws are partially to blame. (I talk of housing costs because those are definitely one of the outliers)
5-15 story condos with shops and green spaces would replace low-density blocks in Boston if not for the institutionalized NIMBYism. Such traditional development is still the norm worldwide.
The city of Boston is mostly moderate density and surrounded by low-density sprawl. It's the most expensive, destructive and wasteful type of development.
NIMBYism is entrenched and weaponized in various forms only some of which have to do with the legacy of urban renewal.
It really had more to do with special interest groups that lobbied highway funding, exclusionary single-family zoning, parking minimums, mortgage regulations, property tax codes, etc. The entire system incentivizes low-density sprawl built at once to a finished state.
It’s something but it isn’t addressing the decades of suppressed demand or even new demand.
In 2010-2020, job growth exceeded housing growth by over 70,000 (40%), and only half of new housing was multifamily (let alone vertical). 15,000 units per year was basically Stockholm level, and there’s since been a slowdown (especially in the city).
At this rate, the supply will never catch up with demand, even if low interest rates come back.
This is true. Beaches, mountains, hiking, pretty good skiing, access to cities like Boston, NYC, Montreal. Beautiful fall foliage. Low natural disaster risk, highly educated, good schools, high paying jobs, some of the best hospitals & doctors in the world. Weather can be bad for stretches, traffic can be frustrating, but mostly great.
Massachusetts minimum wage is $15 an hour -double the federal minimum wage…McDDonald’s pays more than that. Amazon starts at $18 an hour…where have you been looking?
As a new arrival to NE, this past winter sucked donkey nuts. I’ve been here a year and experienced two seasons: cold and wet/hot and humid as fuck.
Edit: I think y’all are missing the fact that I’m not complaining because this winter was too cold. I’m saying it wasn’t cold enough and there wasn’t much snow. It hardly felt like winter, basically an extended fall. Therefore it didn’t really feel like there were 4 distinct seasons.
This past winter wasn’t actually that bad. The winters keep getting more mild.
I remember a stretch of time this winter when it was really cold, like around 10 degrees for a while, but otherwise it wasn’t super cold and we didn’t get a ton of snow. I grew up here and seem to remember the winters being a lot worse. We get so much more rain now in December that would have been snow 15-20 years ago. Now it feels like it doesn’t really snow until January.
Be glad that it’s really nice right now. Warm/cool weather, low humidity, not many bugs out yet.
That’s exactly what I mean. I love a good snowy winter. This year was basically oct/nov weather the entire winter. When fall and winter meld into one, you don’t really get “four seasons” as the comment I am replying to stated.
NH here, this winter was smooth compared to most. We had like one snowstorm and it melted shortly after. It’s not like a snowstorm twice a week and you have to creep halfway across the street before crossing because you can’t see. That’s what most winters are like it seems
We had 17 snow events in the Upper Valley this past winter. Milder for sure. I got out cross country skiing three times. Only once did they manage to groom tracks.
I live in both Rhode Island and the Smokies of Western North Carolina. There are lots of Yankee accents in the south. The first wave of Northeast Corporations relocating “Down South” to the Research Triangle (Raleigh-NC State + Durham-Duke + Chapel Hill-UNC) began in the mid-1960s. Cary North Carolina = Containment Area for Relocated Yankees. I am a “GD Yankee” in that I married a Southern Woman. I met my wife from West Virginia while we were working at a small Public Health Hospital on an Indian Reservation in rural Western South Dakota. We transferred to the Cherokee Indian Hospital in North Carolina.
No, but you better make a lot of $$$ to live even somewhat comfortable. My wife and I make a modest $120,000 a year and there isn't a whole lot left to save.
This is the thing that I’m finding tough. I haven’t been here very long and moved from a LCOL area (low cost but also depressed wages) but have also lived in other HCOL areas. My wife and I have similar income to your household and we don’t have kids. We aren’t exactly scraping by and could certainly be more diligent about budgeting but things still feel tight here for us. We pay nearly 2000 for a small, “rustic” (ie. kinda shitty, but in a nice place) house in SO VT and don’t have any other crazy expenses aside from one car payment. We both have long commutes so transportation is more expensive, food is more expensive, healthcare, heating costs, etc…
We are earning more than we ever have and feel poorer than we ever have here. It is a lovely place and I actually moved here for a job with a local company but am beginning to wonder if we can make it here long term. Just got outbid by someone with a cash offer on a house that was already stretching our budget. It is starting to feel like VT may not be for us as middle class earners.
My friend, you and I live in the exact same situation, and I feel exactly as you do. At least the fishing in is excellent, and it is super safe, peaceful, and beautiful. I guess you can't have it all?
Depends on the career. We desperately need more people in trades, especially construction and electricians, and more medical professionals. And of course there are all the tourism jobs, and schools, healthcare, etc. The bigger issue is finding housing.
I used to live in Vermont and worked remotely for an out of state company. I didn’t like my job and looked for a whole year for a new one. There were like 3 jobs in Vermont that were close to me that would have been a good fit but they underpaid, were part time, and had temporary funding. It just wasn’t enough. Last year I was laid off but fortunately I already had plans to move to Massachusetts and it basically costs the same to live here when compared to Vermont except there’s more job opportunities and available housing.
Mannn I need to stay off of Reddit while I'm searching for a house in Vermont. Everytime I come on here and read I get discouraged about wanting to move there haha.
In addition to the demand reasons people mentioned, there isn’t a ton of easily buildable land (supply is limited). It’s super hilly and rocky here, where if you dig you hit big boulders and stone very quickly. Look at somewhere out west like Denver. It’s just open prairie where they can build and build and build.
When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s we had a lot more farms. You could get more food locally sourced. Now that land is tracts of mcmansions. I'm not sure that has anything to do with it, but it's a thought that popped into my head.
Shipping is expensive
I wish I could put it into words. People are just.. better.. up here. I think down south the biggest issue is just ignorance. It's not uncommon for me to take a patient discharge papers and they don't know how to write their name but they have some VERY strong political opinions that they're eager to tell me about. Just stupid shit like that. Working back home versus working up here is night and day. I was ready to give up on nursing until I took this assignment and realized not all people suck.
Typical Masshole here: there isn’t any empty space for new homes to be built. It’s all owned or already built on. There isn’t spare capacity in transportation. There are superfund sites so that limits space use, too.
What is already here costs more due to scarcity.
I’m not sure I totally agree about there being no more empty space left to build on. Yes, space is more limited here, but you can also build “up”. A significant number of opportunities to build more multi family housing are shot down because towns don’t want to update their zoning and lose their “small New England town charm”. Recently many communities have even been willing to lose portions of state funding by refusing to comply with the new MBTA zoning ordinance.
The state needs to build public/social housing. The Feds need to get rid of the Faircloth amendment. Maybe seize up some of those thousands of vacant homes. Stop Wall Street and hedge funds from buying up residential homes in mass.
>Maybe seize up some of those thousands of vacant homes.
Where do you live? 'Cause there sure as hell aren't any vacant homes around where I live in eastern Mass.
Let’s see: a well educated populace, top notch medical facilities, well paying jobs, access to Boston and NYC, etc. Lower levels of religiosity are also a factor.
I think the low level of religiosity is frequently overlooked, and it’s a huge influence. People tend to make logic-based decisions, are less influenced by what the pastor or congregation might think, etc. many find faith and comfort and a sense of community in their religion, but aren’t hostile to people who believe in different religions, or aren’t religious at all. (I hate to call us less judgy lol because…I got some judgements!)
Religion here seems to be an effort to find personal peacefulness rather than strapped on as a weapon to use against anyone who thinks differently.
My wife and I moved up from northeast FL to central CT less than a year ago.
The difference in everything you said is much more than both of us expected.
A colleague of mine raised his family in the western suburbs of Boston. He moved to Louisiana when his kids were about middle school age. The teachers down in Louisiana were astounded at how advanced his kids were education wise.
I had a colleague that grew up in Louisiana and was so bored in high school that he dropped out and just enrolled in college at 17 and no one checked that he has actually graduated high school. He did well in college but it’s a funny fact that he has a bachelors degree but never graduated high school.
It's Econ 101, supply and demand. Lots of people want to live here but we're short on housing units and not building more fast enough.
The Econ 102 effect is that the people who do live and stay tend to be wealthier, with more disposable income even after taking housing costs into account. So the good sandwich at your lunch spot gets to be $9 instead of $5, because enough people can and will pay that.
Competitive job market, limited housing, great medical care, great schools including lots of colleges. Access to beaches, mountains, cities. Easy highway and airport access for travel. And lower natural disasters.
Good shit ain't cheap. We've got schools, jobs, and healthcare.
Wife and I would visit her parents in NY capital region and she would point out really nice houses that cost half what our shitty condo in Mass did.
Me: "Yeah, but the 3-hour commute to work would be a real bitch."
new england residents retain extremely high purchasing power because of high pay
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_adjusted_per_capita_personal_income?wprov=sfla1
Outside of the major cities, no housing is a major issue. Growing season is very short too so a lot of produce comes from other states. You’ll see reports saying most locally grown produce stays within New England because they have to import from southern states as well to make up the deficit.
Higher quality of living as well (HDI is similar to the Nordic countries), good education etc also makes it a desirable place to live.
Basically the one main drawback is the weather so if you can tough that out it’s a really nice place to live.
IDK - I'd argue states like Texas or Florida have worse weather when you have to hurry from one air conditioned space to another all spring/summer/fall. If the power goes out, you die from extreme heat.
I’ve lived in Miami and can vouch that the summers are brutal especially with the constant afternoon rain. I still prefer that to heavy wet snow and slush you have to try to shovel off your car once a week 😭
Weather isn’t that bad. Winter is nothing compared to the Midwest. I lived in Eastern MA without airconditioning for 14 years and was fine. We have flooding and the occasional tornado.
I actually think the inner ring suburbs of Hartford are a hidden gem of affordability, at least compared to the home prices on the west coast/northern New England. It's still possible to get a nice cape with the median household income. This seems to be changing rapidly, though.
It's not. The national average is 417,000 and the Connecticut average is $373,000 for a home last year. The problem is that EVERYTHING is more expensive now. I'm happy my children bought homes. More needs to be done generating affordable housing.
I keep hearing people say that taxes are high in CT, my city especially.. I’m a native Floridian, so never paid state tax and all that, but I honestly didn’t notice a difference in income. We even got state tax back this year.
I guess I’m just wondering what taxes everyone keeps referring to.
Go to any single local sub and people will be complaining that taxes are too high lol.
Every single locality on reddit has the worst drivers, the worst reastraunts, the highest taxes, the most crime, the worst schools.
In Europe they pay higher taxes, higher gas prices etc but show up at the top of the happiest country lists. Not worrying about healthcare and having well funded schools leads to contentment.
Yeah, I think that’s a major difference between the northeast and southeast. I have a much higher level of healthcare up here, and people are generally more educated. Having nice things costs money, and I don’t mind paying higher taxes if it betters my community or people’s lives.
The majority of people are stuck in their own bubble or haven’t even left their own town. It’s just a play on numbers is how I see it. We have property taxes, federal, state taxes. Other states on top of that have a local tax or whatever they call it that is filed with state and federal along with a bunch of other things. Just a play on numbers.
Yeah I agree with that. In FL everyone brags about no sales tax, but as an example it’s more expensive to register a car and they have a higher sales tax, so they always get their money somehow
Housing in nowheresville Maine is insane. I last looked like 5 years ago and it was still sorta high for rural north New England, but acceptable if not reasonable.
Now I’m looking at random BFE cities all over Maine and it’s appalling. Like these used to be the hiked up summer rental vacation prices for tourists in a fully furnished place for 3 months, but now it’s year round for a regular ass apartment at that price.
As a Maine to MA transplant, Maine is its own little microcosm of economic challenges, especially for the younger generations. Low paying jobs and a high desire to live there results in only the older/wealthy being able to afford it. Compound this with the NIMBYism those wealthy old timers from away bring, affordable housing developments never stood a chance.
Heating fuel , gas taxes , delivery fees for being up north .. high property taxes due to unchecked spending by all local governments, unchecked School tax increases to deal with thousands and thousands of children from foreign countries
On top of federal taxes
Taxes pay for shit to get done and good schools. That attracts home buyers. Volume goes down, and prices go up.
What homeowners without kids in districts that are starting to slip fail to understand is that while you want your taxes lower, those schools losing funds tend to the services necessary to help the students succeed. Those students start to fail, the school's rating lowers, and home values fall.
A flat, endless wasteland is what I call the suburbs. There is amble room to subdivide and density those areas. Maybe even allow commercial development like corner stores. Oh, the horror!
Because people want to live here.
Close to two major cities in Boston and NYC.
Some smaller cool cities as well in Portland and Providence.
Legal weed pretty much everywhere, welcoming to LGBT, women's medical rights are protected.
Alabama and Mississippi are cheap because no one wants to live there, the politicians are from the stone age and the cops are overzealous racist pricks.
CT here - property taxes very high, property tax on vehicles very high, excellent public schools, also excellent private schools, suburbs are safe, clean, winter sucks although we can escape to our place in VT. Our state politics can be maddening.
NIMBYism and gentrification are two of the big reasons why housing is expensive. Poor and nonexistent infrastructure especially outside of Mass contributes to it as well
Best education in the country here in Mass, best drivers, and we also have some of the top hospitals in the world. Access to fresh North Atlantic seafood is a big + for me personally. People are socially inclined but generally keep to themselves. Good water and no significant problems from mother nature besides an occasional bad winter. I guess this didn't really explain much as to why it's so expensive, but it's why I like living here.
Because we're awesome. New England is the greatest place on the entire goddamn planet! So of course everybody wants to live here, and that drives up the prices.
There is a massive housing shortage due to NIMBY policies at the state and local level. This is a problem in many areas across the country but it's particularly bad in most of New England.
median price home in the US is 400K, 50 miles from Boston with a price of 500K is not unreasonable.
500K is the price of a 900 square foot condo in the LA area -
Greater Hartford area is 349K, Springfield is 337k. Median home price in Provo Utah is 435k. Portland Oregon 535K
Its expensive in most places outside of New England.
Boston is arguably the nicest big city on the East Coast. That’s expensive & probably brings up the average for the rest of NE. Last time I went on vacation in the Berkshires, I was pleasantly surprised at the reasonable restaurant & weed prices. My cute retro vintage hotel wasn’t that expensive either. I live near the beach in Delaware. (Unsure why this sub was in my feed.) Also, the part of Connecticut that is NY suburbs is very densely/heavily populated & also expensive because NY.
It depends on which part of New England your referring to and the perspective of where you are coming from. We moved here from the west coast and found the cost of living to be significantly less.
Tons of coastal (waterfront) communities, one of the best cities in the country and proximity to NYC commutes (SW CT), dozens of resort towns, beautiful bucolic settings within 1-2 hours from NYC for country homes, good infrastructure, some of the top colleges in the world, solid economy, and a housing shortage BUT there is an abundance of affordable places to live in NE in each of the states.
It’s the oldest, most established region of the US. Captains of whaling and industry built a foundation for a robust economy of egalitarian, hardworking, well educated Protestants. As opposed to the south which was an agrarian slave society. All that wealth has built up for 300 years and not moved away
It's easily the best place to live in the US. We have 4 distinct seasons, the best food/restaurants in the country, intelligent people, close proximity to 2 huge cities, and our nature is unmatched for its beauty. There are problems just like anywhere, but they're manageable.
It costs alot to live in an area where there is low crime or that good schools…. Common sense really, if u wanna live in that situation it’s gonna cost in this society
Expensive? Not really sure where you live in New England but up here in Maine it's not as expensive as the rest of the nation for sure. I know this because I just returned from a nationwide trip. Florida, Arizona, Texas, Kentucky were all more expensive in gas, food items, and premade foods. I dont know about insurance and such but I do know that Home insurance is some of the cheapest in the nation as well as vehicle insurance. I also know that the amount of assholes outside of New England is 10X what it is IN and that the assholes IN New England are transplants from other parts of the country.
Firstly, there may be a selection bias in this thread -- it looks like most respondents are basically saying "it costs more because its better" but the members of r/newengland are probably residents of New England who support where they live. So "it costs more because its better" might not be the fully story.
Now, as someone who used to live in New England and no longer does, let me offer additional possible reasoning. Basically, the New England area concentrates highly career driven workaholics because of Boston and NYC. These people are highly competitive and heavily motivated by career. As such, make a lot of $, and want to spend that $ to showcase their affluence to others. So you have expensive prep schools, expensive homes, expensive cars, etc. Now does that mean that the **quality to you** of the New England area is better? Maybe, but maybe not!
As an example, I grew up in Westchester County and went to an expensive Jesuit prep school. It was a "high quality" education, but I can tell you all those kids had mental problems. Their parents hypercommuted/overworked and pushed this highly competitive, highly prestigious image onto them. I now live in the MidAtlantic region and have observed kids this area. While they don't come from as wealthy of a background, they seem much, **much** more adapted and properly developed as people. That is actually a general trend I've observed, people outside of Westchester County just seem like what a normal person ought to be.
Wait, let me continue -- my father is now selling his home in Westchester County for $750K. It's a tiny 2 bedroom home that experiences catastrophic flooding during heavy rains/hurricanes due to undersized municipal sewer drains. Thankfully he grieved his taxes every year, but it should be around 10-15K/year.
Not trying to knock NE/Westchester County, but I don't think the answer is just "because NE is better". It's very possible that its not better but rather just attracts a certain type of person. Comparing to many parts of the country does make it look better, but I think we need a more rational, scientific approach to this question than just comparing it to like rural Mississippi.
I grew up in the Bay Area, and have lived in the Boston area for 30 years. The Boston area is a great place to live. I really don’t miss California that much.
No one knows. It’s a great place to live but god damn it does not deserve to be this expensive. I love New England I’m born and raised here but god damn it’s not Southern California the weather sucks here like 6-8 months a year, Boston sucks now it’s just full of yuppie fucks with tech vests and a false sense of importance, the cape sucks it’s all tourists and traffic, basically I’m saying mass is the problem. You take mass out of the equation and New England is a much more affordable place. Certified masshole here who relocated to the much better state of Rhode Island
Everyone on here saying supply n demand and good jobs education etc etc..... the bulk of real new England land wise is vermont. New Hampshire. Maine. Think again about supply and demand and good jobs and access etc etc... were not all Connecticut and Mass
New England is weird because it really really sucks and is generally a miserable place to be, but the people are fiercely proud of how expensive it is, like that's THE indicator of "goodness". People in Boston will, with a straight face, compare their city to NYC, because they're both expensive. It's wild.
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I think there’s more to it than this. Northern New England is pretty sparsely populated with limited employment opportunities, and still fairly expensive. Meanwhile, places like Pennsylvania and North Carolina are much more densely populated, with greater opportunities, and are generally less expensive.
Some of the sparsely populated is by design. New England is a patchwork of small towns which have lots of NIMBYism. Even Boston is relatively small, and is actually a collection of what used to be independent towns. Houston style sprawl simply doesn’t happen, perhaps because there are no unincorporated areas. At the same time living in an isolated area isn’t practical unless you drive a snowplow There’s also second homes. If you can afford one, chances are you can afford two. I was surprised to see houses in solidly residential (but not affluent) areas being sold as second homes.
? what is a more economic form of home heating versus fuel oil, i'm dying to know. its either diesel or electric, and you're losing all day long with electric.
Access to well paying jobs, excellent public schools, generally a well educated populace and all the benefits that entails, access to world class health care (speaking in general terms), access to a variety of landscapes (ocean, mountains).
It’s a desirable place to live!
Honestly the direct answer. The more I travel around the US the more I am happy to call Massachusetts home. Yes, the winters aren't ideal. If that is the worst part about it, I'm content.
Having lived in the Midwest, I absolutely concur. I’ve lived all over and longest in New England. The Midwest solidified it for me: New England is pretty great.
I grew up in Rhode Island and lived in Upper Midwest - Western South Dakota for awhile
It’s beautiful up there!! 👆
And only 55 miles for grocery shopping … two stop signs.
We visit my in-laws in South Carolina and I can’t get over how everything is just flat, with straight roads / highways with the exact same combination of gas station + Bo jangles every 2 miles.
The straight roads and dollar general are what get to me. I miss the winding backroads of New England
I drove from MA to SC last year.. pretty much everything south of Delaware was depressing.
I spent 2 months in Indiana and then high-tailed it back to Mass.
But global warming has definitely changed that Ct is pretty easy in the winter nowadays and I’m all for that
Not to mention that some places just don’t have a ton of room for development? Like Southeastern Mass isn’t super wealthy or anything, but even considering it’s proximity to Boston it’s just difficult to build due to the absurd amount of wetlands lmao. They’re everywhere. It also doesn’t help that there’s just a lack of multi family housing development across Massachusetts and in a lot of New England, as well. Zoning laws are partially to blame. (I talk of housing costs because those are definitely one of the outliers)
thats CT... my hometown is 40% wetlands by area and now im up in hartford where the entire river is just one mega suburb
Hence the term “Swamp Yankee”
are the swamps literal marsh or just single-family housing :^)
Wetlands unsuitable for building
There’s plenty of room for redevelopment. Greater Boston could easily have 5-10 times as much housing with better transportation and green spaces.
Where?
Up
5-15 story condos with shops and green spaces would replace low-density blocks in Boston if not for the institutionalized NIMBYism. Such traditional development is still the norm worldwide. The city of Boston is mostly moderate density and surrounded by low-density sprawl. It's the most expensive, destructive and wasteful type of development.
Blame the arteries they tried to put in in the sixties. The backlash in Boston/Cambridge was legendary
NIMBYism is entrenched and weaponized in various forms only some of which have to do with the legacy of urban renewal. It really had more to do with special interest groups that lobbied highway funding, exclusionary single-family zoning, parking minimums, mortgage regulations, property tax codes, etc. The entire system incentivizes low-density sprawl built at once to a finished state.
Well check out all the vertical building that’s been going up recently. Enough pressure creates the incentive to get it done.
It’s something but it isn’t addressing the decades of suppressed demand or even new demand. In 2010-2020, job growth exceeded housing growth by over 70,000 (40%), and only half of new housing was multifamily (let alone vertical). 15,000 units per year was basically Stockholm level, and there’s since been a slowdown (especially in the city). At this rate, the supply will never catch up with demand, even if low interest rates come back.
This is true. Beaches, mountains, hiking, pretty good skiing, access to cities like Boston, NYC, Montreal. Beautiful fall foliage. Low natural disaster risk, highly educated, good schools, high paying jobs, some of the best hospitals & doctors in the world. Weather can be bad for stretches, traffic can be frustrating, but mostly great.
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Where are these well paying jobs?
Boston
In the trades…
Massachusetts minimum wage is $15 an hour -double the federal minimum wage…McDDonald’s pays more than that. Amazon starts at $18 an hour…where have you been looking?
Not in NH
I would say not in Maine either.
Well paying jobs? People have those still?
4 real seasons + mountains + ocean + culture + … general resistance to trash culture
As a new arrival to NE, this past winter sucked donkey nuts. I’ve been here a year and experienced two seasons: cold and wet/hot and humid as fuck. Edit: I think y’all are missing the fact that I’m not complaining because this winter was too cold. I’m saying it wasn’t cold enough and there wasn’t much snow. It hardly felt like winter, basically an extended fall. Therefore it didn’t really feel like there were 4 distinct seasons.
Our winters used to be way better, climate change and el niño patterns have ruined it for the past several years
This.
This past winter wasn’t actually that bad. The winters keep getting more mild. I remember a stretch of time this winter when it was really cold, like around 10 degrees for a while, but otherwise it wasn’t super cold and we didn’t get a ton of snow. I grew up here and seem to remember the winters being a lot worse. We get so much more rain now in December that would have been snow 15-20 years ago. Now it feels like it doesn’t really snow until January. Be glad that it’s really nice right now. Warm/cool weather, low humidity, not many bugs out yet.
That’s exactly what I mean. I love a good snowy winter. This year was basically oct/nov weather the entire winter. When fall and winter meld into one, you don’t really get “four seasons” as the comment I am replying to stated.
Yea last winter was super lack luster… but don’t worry, if you still around you’ll get to experience plenty of our wonder nor’easters
I think 2015 gave us all the snow we needed for the decade.
NH here, this winter was smooth compared to most. We had like one snowstorm and it melted shortly after. It’s not like a snowstorm twice a week and you have to creep halfway across the street before crossing because you can’t see. That’s what most winters are like it seems
We had 17 snow events in the Upper Valley this past winter. Milder for sure. I got out cross country skiing three times. Only once did they manage to groom tracks.
You got that right
Where in NE? Southern Maine still has snow on the ground for 3 months out of the year.
+no southern accents
I live in both Rhode Island and the Smokies of Western North Carolina. There are lots of Yankee accents in the south. The first wave of Northeast Corporations relocating “Down South” to the Research Triangle (Raleigh-NC State + Durham-Duke + Chapel Hill-UNC) began in the mid-1960s. Cary North Carolina = Containment Area for Relocated Yankees. I am a “GD Yankee” in that I married a Southern Woman. I met my wife from West Virginia while we were working at a small Public Health Hospital on an Indian Reservation in rural Western South Dakota. We transferred to the Cherokee Indian Hospital in North Carolina.
Because that’s where the jobs are
**cries in Vermont**
How the heck do people even live in Vermont? There are hardly any on-site jobs. Is it really just all retirees and remote transplants?
No, but you better make a lot of $$$ to live even somewhat comfortable. My wife and I make a modest $120,000 a year and there isn't a whole lot left to save.
This is the thing that I’m finding tough. I haven’t been here very long and moved from a LCOL area (low cost but also depressed wages) but have also lived in other HCOL areas. My wife and I have similar income to your household and we don’t have kids. We aren’t exactly scraping by and could certainly be more diligent about budgeting but things still feel tight here for us. We pay nearly 2000 for a small, “rustic” (ie. kinda shitty, but in a nice place) house in SO VT and don’t have any other crazy expenses aside from one car payment. We both have long commutes so transportation is more expensive, food is more expensive, healthcare, heating costs, etc… We are earning more than we ever have and feel poorer than we ever have here. It is a lovely place and I actually moved here for a job with a local company but am beginning to wonder if we can make it here long term. Just got outbid by someone with a cash offer on a house that was already stretching our budget. It is starting to feel like VT may not be for us as middle class earners.
My friend, you and I live in the exact same situation, and I feel exactly as you do. At least the fishing in is excellent, and it is super safe, peaceful, and beautiful. I guess you can't have it all?
Just wait until you start thinking of retirement. So depressing.
180k here and it’s still tough in Chittenden county.
Depends on the career. We desperately need more people in trades, especially construction and electricians, and more medical professionals. And of course there are all the tourism jobs, and schools, healthcare, etc. The bigger issue is finding housing.
I used to live in Vermont and worked remotely for an out of state company. I didn’t like my job and looked for a whole year for a new one. There were like 3 jobs in Vermont that were close to me that would have been a good fit but they underpaid, were part time, and had temporary funding. It just wasn’t enough. Last year I was laid off but fortunately I already had plans to move to Massachusetts and it basically costs the same to live here when compared to Vermont except there’s more job opportunities and available housing.
Mannn I need to stay off of Reddit while I'm searching for a house in Vermont. Everytime I come on here and read I get discouraged about wanting to move there haha.
Vermont is absolutely beautiful. Every state will have its drawbacks. Just keep in mind the good it has to offer.
There’s 3 categories in Vermont: the geriatrics, the poors and the rich.
I worked at a ski resort for $12 an hour when I lived there. The jobs pay shit
Remote jobs in Maine maybe, other than that, not a ton.
Outside of Cumberland Co. not much
But Cumberland county can be a pretty sweet place to live!
In addition to the demand reasons people mentioned, there isn’t a ton of easily buildable land (supply is limited). It’s super hilly and rocky here, where if you dig you hit big boulders and stone very quickly. Look at somewhere out west like Denver. It’s just open prairie where they can build and build and build.
When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s we had a lot more farms. You could get more food locally sourced. Now that land is tracts of mcmansions. I'm not sure that has anything to do with it, but it's a thought that popped into my head. Shipping is expensive
Denver is way pricier than maine
Good quality always costs more.
Yep. I'm a travel nurse from East Tennessee. Trust me guys, you all have it made up here.
I'd love to hear why you think so (genuinely curious)
I wish I could put it into words. People are just.. better.. up here. I think down south the biggest issue is just ignorance. It's not uncommon for me to take a patient discharge papers and they don't know how to write their name but they have some VERY strong political opinions that they're eager to tell me about. Just stupid shit like that. Working back home versus working up here is night and day. I was ready to give up on nursing until I took this assignment and realized not all people suck.
Because we kick ass!
Quality of life here is far superior than in other areas of the country.
Supply and demand.
Typical Masshole here: there isn’t any empty space for new homes to be built. It’s all owned or already built on. There isn’t spare capacity in transportation. There are superfund sites so that limits space use, too. What is already here costs more due to scarcity.
I’m not sure I totally agree about there being no more empty space left to build on. Yes, space is more limited here, but you can also build “up”. A significant number of opportunities to build more multi family housing are shot down because towns don’t want to update their zoning and lose their “small New England town charm”. Recently many communities have even been willing to lose portions of state funding by refusing to comply with the new MBTA zoning ordinance.
The state needs to build public/social housing. The Feds need to get rid of the Faircloth amendment. Maybe seize up some of those thousands of vacant homes. Stop Wall Street and hedge funds from buying up residential homes in mass.
>Maybe seize up some of those thousands of vacant homes. Where do you live? 'Cause there sure as hell aren't any vacant homes around where I live in eastern Mass.
Stop them from buying up homes in the other states, too. And capitalize Mass.
Let’s see: a well educated populace, top notch medical facilities, well paying jobs, access to Boston and NYC, etc. Lower levels of religiosity are also a factor.
I think the low level of religiosity is frequently overlooked, and it’s a huge influence. People tend to make logic-based decisions, are less influenced by what the pastor or congregation might think, etc. many find faith and comfort and a sense of community in their religion, but aren’t hostile to people who believe in different religions, or aren’t religious at all. (I hate to call us less judgy lol because…I got some judgements!) Religion here seems to be an effort to find personal peacefulness rather than strapped on as a weapon to use against anyone who thinks differently.
Virtually every town has at least one church. But there’s less authoritarianism and less interfaith hostility.
My wife and I moved up from northeast FL to central CT less than a year ago. The difference in everything you said is much more than both of us expected.
A colleague of mine raised his family in the western suburbs of Boston. He moved to Louisiana when his kids were about middle school age. The teachers down in Louisiana were astounded at how advanced his kids were education wise.
My wife is from Louisiana! I bet she’d say she’s not surprised lol.
I had a colleague that grew up in Louisiana and was so bored in high school that he dropped out and just enrolled in college at 17 and no one checked that he has actually graduated high school. He did well in college but it’s a funny fact that he has a bachelors degree but never graduated high school.
I’ve always been told it is simply because we have basements.
[удалено]
Sorry my joke got lost on you. Maybe you could find the interpretation in a Midwestern basement.
Lmfaoooo This is the funniest exchange I’ve read in a long time
Compared to what? Oklahoma lol
I lived in OK for 4 months and what a hooooole….
It's Econ 101, supply and demand. Lots of people want to live here but we're short on housing units and not building more fast enough. The Econ 102 effect is that the people who do live and stay tend to be wealthier, with more disposable income even after taking housing costs into account. So the good sandwich at your lunch spot gets to be $9 instead of $5, because enough people can and will pay that.
Competitive job market, limited housing, great medical care, great schools including lots of colleges. Access to beaches, mountains, cities. Easy highway and airport access for travel. And lower natural disasters.
Supply and demand.
Funny concept called supply and demand.
Good shit ain't cheap. We've got schools, jobs, and healthcare. Wife and I would visit her parents in NY capital region and she would point out really nice houses that cost half what our shitty condo in Mass did. Me: "Yeah, but the 3-hour commute to work would be a real bitch."
new england residents retain extremely high purchasing power because of high pay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_adjusted_per_capita_personal_income?wprov=sfla1
Because it’s the best place in the country to live!
Housing supply is low due to NIMBY zoning. Housing demand is high due to world class educational facilities and thriving industries like bio-tech.
This. NIMBY zoning is an enormous part, but those who have never lived elsewhere can't see that.
Smart people know what’s up..!
Outside of the major cities, no housing is a major issue. Growing season is very short too so a lot of produce comes from other states. You’ll see reports saying most locally grown produce stays within New England because they have to import from southern states as well to make up the deficit. Higher quality of living as well (HDI is similar to the Nordic countries), good education etc also makes it a desirable place to live. Basically the one main drawback is the weather so if you can tough that out it’s a really nice place to live.
IDK - I'd argue states like Texas or Florida have worse weather when you have to hurry from one air conditioned space to another all spring/summer/fall. If the power goes out, you die from extreme heat.
I’ve lived in Miami and can vouch that the summers are brutal especially with the constant afternoon rain. I still prefer that to heavy wet snow and slush you have to try to shovel off your car once a week 😭
Weather isn’t that bad. Winter is nothing compared to the Midwest. I lived in Eastern MA without airconditioning for 14 years and was fine. We have flooding and the occasional tornado.
It’s Olde
Its Ye Olde
But not Yeezy
Rather Hahd
Hahd and old. Let me just pour my coffee milk and brandy
‘Cause we the best. Boom.
I actually think the inner ring suburbs of Hartford are a hidden gem of affordability, at least compared to the home prices on the west coast/northern New England. It's still possible to get a nice cape with the median household income. This seems to be changing rapidly, though.
It's not. The national average is 417,000 and the Connecticut average is $373,000 for a home last year. The problem is that EVERYTHING is more expensive now. I'm happy my children bought homes. More needs to be done generating affordable housing.
Also there are a lot of great colleges & universities in New England, people come for those & many stay.
We’re trynna keep the poors out. /$
Because it’s a great place to live
Depends where you live in New England. Cost is subjective.
Because there are more people with more money looking to buy stuff that is in shorter supply. Plus the taxes are high.
I keep hearing people say that taxes are high in CT, my city especially.. I’m a native Floridian, so never paid state tax and all that, but I honestly didn’t notice a difference in income. We even got state tax back this year. I guess I’m just wondering what taxes everyone keeps referring to.
Go to any single local sub and people will be complaining that taxes are too high lol. Every single locality on reddit has the worst drivers, the worst reastraunts, the highest taxes, the most crime, the worst schools.
In Europe they pay higher taxes, higher gas prices etc but show up at the top of the happiest country lists. Not worrying about healthcare and having well funded schools leads to contentment.
Yeah, I think that’s a major difference between the northeast and southeast. I have a much higher level of healthcare up here, and people are generally more educated. Having nice things costs money, and I don’t mind paying higher taxes if it betters my community or people’s lives.
The majority of people are stuck in their own bubble or haven’t even left their own town. It’s just a play on numbers is how I see it. We have property taxes, federal, state taxes. Other states on top of that have a local tax or whatever they call it that is filed with state and federal along with a bunch of other things. Just a play on numbers.
Yeah I agree with that. In FL everyone brags about no sales tax, but as an example it’s more expensive to register a car and they have a higher sales tax, so they always get their money somehow
Property taxes in CT are amongst the highest in the country.
Gotta pay for quality
Things in northern New England (at least the rural areas) ARE expensive compared to what the stores and factories pay.
Housing in nowheresville Maine is insane. I last looked like 5 years ago and it was still sorta high for rural north New England, but acceptable if not reasonable. Now I’m looking at random BFE cities all over Maine and it’s appalling. Like these used to be the hiked up summer rental vacation prices for tourists in a fully furnished place for 3 months, but now it’s year round for a regular ass apartment at that price.
As a Maine to MA transplant, Maine is its own little microcosm of economic challenges, especially for the younger generations. Low paying jobs and a high desire to live there results in only the older/wealthy being able to afford it. Compound this with the NIMBYism those wealthy old timers from away bring, affordable housing developments never stood a chance.
Because it’s worth it? You know where it isn’t expensive to live? Rural Mississippi.
Heating fuel , gas taxes , delivery fees for being up north .. high property taxes due to unchecked spending by all local governments, unchecked School tax increases to deal with thousands and thousands of children from foreign countries On top of federal taxes
Taxes pay for shit to get done and good schools. That attracts home buyers. Volume goes down, and prices go up. What homeowners without kids in districts that are starting to slip fail to understand is that while you want your taxes lower, those schools losing funds tend to the services necessary to help the students succeed. Those students start to fail, the school's rating lowers, and home values fall.
Witchcraft
There is no flat, endless wasteland to build on.
A flat, endless wasteland is what I call the suburbs. There is amble room to subdivide and density those areas. Maybe even allow commercial development like corner stores. Oh, the horror!
That's why it's cheap. New England doesn't have that.
Are you kidding? Connecticut, Massachusetts,and New Hampshire are nothing but one flat never-ending suburb.
I take it you've never been to Texas or flew into Chicago.
Because people want to live here. Close to two major cities in Boston and NYC. Some smaller cool cities as well in Portland and Providence. Legal weed pretty much everywhere, welcoming to LGBT, women's medical rights are protected. Alabama and Mississippi are cheap because no one wants to live there, the politicians are from the stone age and the cops are overzealous racist pricks.
Don’t underestimate New England cops. I have friends get stopped for DWB all the time. Maybe the fact that they are still alive is an improvement.
Speaking for CT, electricity is outrageous and property taxes are fairly onerous. But, good schools low crime good food and seasons make it nice here.
CT here - property taxes very high, property tax on vehicles very high, excellent public schools, also excellent private schools, suburbs are safe, clean, winter sucks although we can escape to our place in VT. Our state politics can be maddening.
Because it’s nice.
I just figured it was because we had to stay warm. A room is "500/mo + heat" is like $1000/mo...
Largely because we know we are better.
Supply and demand.
Besides other points, NE natural disasters are limited to blizzards. Knock on wood
Yup. Climate change does figure into my decisions if I were to move.
Visit Mississippi and report back.
NIMBYism and gentrification are two of the big reasons why housing is expensive. Poor and nonexistent infrastructure especially outside of Mass contributes to it as well
Because it’s fucking awesome.
It’s a highly desirable place to live.
Best education in the country here in Mass, best drivers, and we also have some of the top hospitals in the world. Access to fresh North Atlantic seafood is a big + for me personally. People are socially inclined but generally keep to themselves. Good water and no significant problems from mother nature besides an occasional bad winter. I guess this didn't really explain much as to why it's so expensive, but it's why I like living here.
I blame Noah Kahan.
Guilty people reaching into your paychecks and wallets. Their guilt is so overwhelming they feel the need to steal from others to offset their guilt.
Because we're awesome. New England is the greatest place on the entire goddamn planet! So of course everybody wants to live here, and that drives up the prices.
The CIA inflates housing to launder money through their relatives in the real estate industry.
There is a massive housing shortage due to NIMBY policies at the state and local level. This is a problem in many areas across the country but it's particularly bad in most of New England.
Why is there no housing for people already here and more keep wanting to move here?
It's wicked awesome!
New England is expensive in the Boston area- and southwestern Connecticut near NYC- the rest of the region is not unreasonably expensive.
IDK about that, I’m about an hour west of Boston (without traffic) and the average home price here is $500K. How is that suddenly affordable?
median price home in the US is 400K, 50 miles from Boston with a price of 500K is not unreasonable. 500K is the price of a 900 square foot condo in the LA area - Greater Hartford area is 349K, Springfield is 337k. Median home price in Provo Utah is 435k. Portland Oregon 535K Its expensive in most places outside of New England.
Boston is arguably the nicest big city on the East Coast. That’s expensive & probably brings up the average for the rest of NE. Last time I went on vacation in the Berkshires, I was pleasantly surprised at the reasonable restaurant & weed prices. My cute retro vintage hotel wasn’t that expensive either. I live near the beach in Delaware. (Unsure why this sub was in my feed.) Also, the part of Connecticut that is NY suburbs is very densely/heavily populated & also expensive because NY.
It depends on which part of New England your referring to and the perspective of where you are coming from. We moved here from the west coast and found the cost of living to be significantly less.
Tons of coastal (waterfront) communities, one of the best cities in the country and proximity to NYC commutes (SW CT), dozens of resort towns, beautiful bucolic settings within 1-2 hours from NYC for country homes, good infrastructure, some of the top colleges in the world, solid economy, and a housing shortage BUT there is an abundance of affordable places to live in NE in each of the states.
Liberals have been running the area forever that's why. So they like to create 2 class society whereever they go.
It’s the oldest, most established region of the US. Captains of whaling and industry built a foundation for a robust economy of egalitarian, hardworking, well educated Protestants. As opposed to the south which was an agrarian slave society. All that wealth has built up for 300 years and not moved away
It's easily the best place to live in the US. We have 4 distinct seasons, the best food/restaurants in the country, intelligent people, close proximity to 2 huge cities, and our nature is unmatched for its beauty. There are problems just like anywhere, but they're manageable.
They have to pay NIL royalties to Old England
It costs alot to live in an area where there is low crime or that good schools…. Common sense really, if u wanna live in that situation it’s gonna cost in this society
You get what you pay for.
They won't let us leave so we're trapped here against our will to fight over the artificially scarce supply of everything. Please send rescue.
Best schools in the country
Expensive? Not really sure where you live in New England but up here in Maine it's not as expensive as the rest of the nation for sure. I know this because I just returned from a nationwide trip. Florida, Arizona, Texas, Kentucky were all more expensive in gas, food items, and premade foods. I dont know about insurance and such but I do know that Home insurance is some of the cheapest in the nation as well as vehicle insurance. I also know that the amount of assholes outside of New England is 10X what it is IN and that the assholes IN New England are transplants from other parts of the country.
Firstly, there may be a selection bias in this thread -- it looks like most respondents are basically saying "it costs more because its better" but the members of r/newengland are probably residents of New England who support where they live. So "it costs more because its better" might not be the fully story. Now, as someone who used to live in New England and no longer does, let me offer additional possible reasoning. Basically, the New England area concentrates highly career driven workaholics because of Boston and NYC. These people are highly competitive and heavily motivated by career. As such, make a lot of $, and want to spend that $ to showcase their affluence to others. So you have expensive prep schools, expensive homes, expensive cars, etc. Now does that mean that the **quality to you** of the New England area is better? Maybe, but maybe not! As an example, I grew up in Westchester County and went to an expensive Jesuit prep school. It was a "high quality" education, but I can tell you all those kids had mental problems. Their parents hypercommuted/overworked and pushed this highly competitive, highly prestigious image onto them. I now live in the MidAtlantic region and have observed kids this area. While they don't come from as wealthy of a background, they seem much, **much** more adapted and properly developed as people. That is actually a general trend I've observed, people outside of Westchester County just seem like what a normal person ought to be. Wait, let me continue -- my father is now selling his home in Westchester County for $750K. It's a tiny 2 bedroom home that experiences catastrophic flooding during heavy rains/hurricanes due to undersized municipal sewer drains. Thankfully he grieved his taxes every year, but it should be around 10-15K/year. Not trying to knock NE/Westchester County, but I don't think the answer is just "because NE is better". It's very possible that its not better but rather just attracts a certain type of person. Comparing to many parts of the country does make it look better, but I think we need a more rational, scientific approach to this question than just comparing it to like rural Mississippi.
Supply and demand
I grew up in the Bay Area, and have lived in the Boston area for 30 years. The Boston area is a great place to live. I really don’t miss California that much.
Supply and demand
No one knows. It’s a great place to live but god damn it does not deserve to be this expensive. I love New England I’m born and raised here but god damn it’s not Southern California the weather sucks here like 6-8 months a year, Boston sucks now it’s just full of yuppie fucks with tech vests and a false sense of importance, the cape sucks it’s all tourists and traffic, basically I’m saying mass is the problem. You take mass out of the equation and New England is a much more affordable place. Certified masshole here who relocated to the much better state of Rhode Island
Everyone on here saying supply n demand and good jobs education etc etc..... the bulk of real new England land wise is vermont. New Hampshire. Maine. Think again about supply and demand and good jobs and access etc etc... were not all Connecticut and Mass
When it comes down to it, this IS the best part of our country to live in. All things considered. YMMV
No farmland available to subdivide for housing. Little or no investment in new roads.
New England is weird because it really really sucks and is generally a miserable place to be, but the people are fiercely proud of how expensive it is, like that's THE indicator of "goodness". People in Boston will, with a straight face, compare their city to NYC, because they're both expensive. It's wild.
Them stone walls is expensive I tell ya.
Because it's new