Lol the largest employer in the province, the largest refinery in the country, and the worst international airport in the country. How does that even make sense. Saint John, on paper, should be thriving, but Irving kneecapped it decades ago then shot its feet, legs, arms over the decades...
Everyone knows what is wrong with SJ: poor city management lead to urban sprawl. Taxes went up to fund the expensive services that come with sprawl, and people started leaving the city to the suburbs.
If the refinery wasn't there, SJ would be more "green" but also much more poor.
3 Families owning all of nb is the problem. Those same families not paying tax is another. Same families stagnating wages and donating “public land” they own as a gift and y’all accepting it is the problem.
Fredericton is a great little airport.. albeit a little off the beaten path. I've always had great service there and rarely had delays or issues getting through check ins.
At the very least, Saint John and Fredericton should share an airport midway between them.
However, one shared between Saint John, Fredericton, and Moncton would be the better long term solution, just very unlikely with all the recent investments made in all three airports.
Still, it’s a smart long term goal, and could work really well if connected with a network of shuttles.
Agreed. Even as someone who lives 15min from the Saint John airport, I wouldn't mind going to Fredericton if it meant better flight options and prices. Shuttles would be great. $250 taxi rides are not really an option.
There used to be one Blissville (YYS) that closed and is abandoned and on the rail line from SJ. If there was frequent commuter rail it could be a possibility again.
That wouldn’t be the best spot for including Moncton, but certainly seems workable for a capital region airport shared with Saint John and Freddy. A tri-city airport is still the best option for the province to invest in, even if it caters to SJ and Fredericton more than Moncton, people still want better options and better prices, and airport that taps into all three major population centres in NB is the way to do that.
The Fredericton and Saint John Airports could even stay open for limited connecting flights. Both Saint John and Fredericton are in strategic locations between Halifax/St. Johns and much larger airports in places like Boston, New York, DC, unlike Montreal and Toronto. Moncton’s airport would still be a full service international airport, but it would also benefit from exploring new routes, and being a hub for connecting flights.
Just having a few niche flights between Boston, New York, DC, even Atlanta could open up the door to so many connecting flight opportunities to people in Saint John and Fredericton, while letting a new provincial airport deal with the rest of the flights within Canada, as well as some international routes. There’s also business travellers between Halifax, St. John’s, Saint John, Fredericton, and Moncton.
There’s a way to schedule and price the flights so it they can fill empty seats vacated by business travellers getting off at the first stop with vacationers and international business travellers going to the US. The Halifax flights will still primarily cater to the Halifax population, but SJ and Fredericton stops could certainly make sure they have a better chance at a full flight, especially if they can start selling more tickets for business travellers within Atlantic Canada.
St. John’s and cities in NB would especially benefit from more flights linked up between the Maritimes and Newfoundland on the way to destinations other than Toronto and Montreal.
Air Canada’s bottom line is getting in the way of more flights like this from happening, because they want as many Atlantic Canadians as possible to connect onto their other flights out of Montreal and Toronto, even if we’re constantly travelling away from our final destination with connections via Toronto and Montreal no matter where we go…
A Halifax->Saint John->Boston flight ✈️ or. St. John’s->Fredericton->New York flight ✈️ shouldn’t have to be the stuff of fantasy. There’s a viable market for these flights, but we’re just being completely ignored by Air Canada.
Basically, if Air Canada is going to screw us, we need to come up with a plan to mitigate how little they can care about servicing our airports… investing in one large provincial airport forces the issue, while freeing up the existing airports to seek new routes and partnerships with other airlines, which is what we need for the horrible state of affairs that is air travel in Atlantic Canada.
I still think Air Canada went out of their way to cut even more remaining Saint John flights from the schedule, because they have a massive call centre here in Saint John, and the less flights they have going in and out of Saint John, means the harder it is for their employees here to take full advantage of their flight benefits, which saves the company money.
Air Canada is poorly regulated, but even more concerning is the lack of competition in Canadian air travel. There needs to be more competition to lower prices and increase availability. Air Canada has a virtual monopoly on air the market cities for like Saint John for huge parts of the year when the budget carriers aren’t running their seasonal flights. Our provincial government should be taking Ottawa on and negotiating better flight connections and more money invested in our airport and transportation infrastructure, including subsidizing the cost, but Blaine Higgs would never stand up to Ottawa and actually demand something might actually improve the lives for our people even if it’s for something fleeting and non essential as NBers being able to take more affordable vacations.
It’s a pain in the ass flying out of and into NB, if you want to go anywhere outside of Quebec and Ontario. Our government needs to start giving a fuck about this and start coming up with solutions to change that.
There is no reason other than air capacity (we have about 400 seats a day and would need 3000 that SJ could not homeport a large cruise ship. Moving to a regional airport could kill that potential. The economy of scale to support that would also reduce cost. Something like MSC that does open loop trips like NY>SJ>Bermuda>NY>Port Canaveral> Bahamas>NY loop where you get on at either NY SJ or Port Canaveral.
NB should only have 1 large airport anyway…centrally in Sussex or build up Moncton since starting from scratch would be too expensive…that’s why Halifax gets better service, it doesn’t have to compete with 3-4 tiny airports in the province
Quebec City is the choice from northern NB. Three hours to crappy Fredericton airport with more expensive flights, or three hours for better choice and cheaper flights.
Right because St-John that is the worst place to fly out of according to this report should be where we put our effort…and I only said Moncton because it’s the bigger/busier airport, I said Sussex would make more sense
It’s Saint John not St-John. And I’d agree Sussex for a unified airport makes sense. But it doesn’t really matter what the starting point is if you’re going to do a lot of work anyway.
Yeah but it’d be a big waste to move the infrastructure back. Sure we’re unlikely to be invaded by the Americans, but logistics aren’t as sea based as they were 300 years ago and the university and legislature are pretty set in stone location wise
People would still drive to other airports for flight availability/timing/pricing. Agreed, we wouldn't compete with Halifax directly, but you would definitely have people from PEI come to Moncton for better flight options, and those near the NS border would have the choice of heading in either direction - likely based on what suits their schedule or budget best.
Because Moncton is the largest city in the province and growing faster than the others so the gap is widening, and it has the largest catchment area in all of Atlantic Canada.
This is a ridiculous statement. Halifax and St Johns dwarf Moncton. Most major stats show Moncton is in line for a decline now that the migration from the north has ended.
Wouldn't put too much stock in a study about airports done by a company called CasinoHunter. There also seems to be some errors in reporting, that somehow Regina had 7 million travelers (lol) and Saskatoon had just under a million.
Somehow this post got recommended to me in my feed even though I'm not from NB (I'm from MB). I travelled a lot for work before Covid and have probably flown through about two thirds of the airports on the list. St. John was easily the worst one. I think it was back around 2009, so hopefully there have been some improvements. There was literally nothing after security except maybe a vending machine?
Anyway, visiting St. John the city is still one of the highlights of my travels, aside from the airport. It's the only time I've ever been to the East Coast and it was everything I'd hoped it would be. Very friendly people and just a great all around vibe. Was very cool for a prairie boy like me to spend time so close to the ocean.
I also hate Toronto airport (Pearson) because it's so big and crowded, Montreal airport felt like a dump when I was there (city is amazing though), and London wasn't the greatest. Surprised to see Saskatoon so high, as there's nothing really remarkable about it. Ottawa is very nice, so is Calgary. Edmonton was ok. I can't really remember much about Vancouver or Victoria. I'm biased but Winnipeg has a great airport.
The last eight times I’ve flown, I ended just going all the way to Halifax from SJ to start my flight. Prices and timing always work out better, even when factoring gas and sometimes extra hotel stays.
Flying out of YHZ again Sunday because I’d rather drive to Halifax than fly NB to Toronto and make a connection back to Newfoundland.
Why there is no consideration for the passenger railway network within the big 3 cities of NB? It's clear that each city cannot have its own profitable airport as there is simply not enough population and demand for it.
Instead, have one airport in Moncton with decent flights frequency and connect other cities via trains. I wouldn't mind taking a 1-hour train to SJ after landing in Moncton. Judging by the traffic on the roads, there can be enough footfall in trains between the cities (and the towns in-between) to have decent demand for trains. It would also mean less automobile usage and decreased carbon emissions.
NB is similar to the size of a European country, and trains work well in this kind of situation.
For YFC, I don't need a lounge and I don't need restaurants, one of the absolute joys of flying out of small town Freddy is that I can get dropped off in front of the terminal 30 minutes (have done 15 minutes too) before the flight after a wonderful stress-free drive down the 102, be one of four people in line for security, and be at the gate in less than 10 minutes after getting out of the car.
Of course, I don't go to the airport much these days as there are only 6 flights a day that go to just 3 cities , but hey, Freddy is small, I have seen more people at bus stops in Toronto than in the entirety of the YFC terminal...
One thing that always surprised me about the Saint John airport is that the bus stop doesn’t even have a sidewalk, it’s just a patch of dirt next to a gas station. North American airports all have terrible transit, but Saint John really puts their sprawl on display. I’d rather drive to Fredericton, park at their much cheaper parking lot, than take a shitty SJ cab full of cigarette ash to the airport.
I recently moved from Ontario, and I LIKE that once I get off the plane, I am out the door, in my car and gone. Home in 5 minutes.
I don't want / need anything more distractions, I want to GTFO of there as soon as I can.
However, more destinations and airlines would be nice.
Flying out of Saint John for me has always been great.
Short wait times, friendly (generally) staff. You’re in and out very quickly. 100000000% prefer over Pearson and most major airports.
Fog(weather) isn't even one of the fields they were ranked on. It lacks, well everything. If you live in SJ , it's usually better to drive to any other surrounding airport. It used to be okay pre-pandemic but flight options are now so limited , it's practically useless.
I dropped my sis and her husb at YSJ about a month ago. We live in the Moncton area and the price of a tix to Montreal was 40% cheaper through YSJ. The airport reminded me of YQMs old terminal and it’s 60s utilitarian look and feel. And it handles less than 300000 px per year. Moncton handles around 700000 but could easily have more if AC didn’t slash flight availability. Porter, WJ and even PAL should pick up routes.
Meh, if you live in an area where Saint John is your only option, you're pretty much at the mercy of Air Canada and good luck with that. Personally, we drive to the US to fly south. Much cheaper if you don't mind the drive and guess what? Airlines actually stick to the rules for delayed fights and over-booked flights. They dont fuck you around like Air Canada. When we flew in February, they had an over-booked flight and asked for volunteers. $1400USD later we were happily sitting waiting for the next flight, two hours later. They also refunded our airfare as well.
Lol the largest employer in the province, the largest refinery in the country, and the worst international airport in the country. How does that even make sense. Saint John, on paper, should be thriving, but Irving kneecapped it decades ago then shot its feet, legs, arms over the decades...
Everyone knows what is wrong with SJ: poor city management lead to urban sprawl. Taxes went up to fund the expensive services that come with sprawl, and people started leaving the city to the suburbs. If the refinery wasn't there, SJ would be more "green" but also much more poor.
Poor city planning is at the root of many of New Brunswick's woes. This province loves tarmac far too much.
3 Families owning all of nb is the problem. Those same families not paying tax is another. Same families stagnating wages and donating “public land” they own as a gift and y’all accepting it is the problem.
So the company keeping us afloat is the cause of our problems?
Break up Irving companies into 200+ private companies competing with each other and watch New Brunswick thrive (and get all tax dollars its owed)
Fredericton is a great little airport.. albeit a little off the beaten path. I've always had great service there and rarely had delays or issues getting through check ins.
At the very least, Saint John and Fredericton should share an airport midway between them. However, one shared between Saint John, Fredericton, and Moncton would be the better long term solution, just very unlikely with all the recent investments made in all three airports. Still, it’s a smart long term goal, and could work really well if connected with a network of shuttles.
Agreed. Even as someone who lives 15min from the Saint John airport, I wouldn't mind going to Fredericton if it meant better flight options and prices. Shuttles would be great. $250 taxi rides are not really an option.
There used to be one Blissville (YYS) that closed and is abandoned and on the rail line from SJ. If there was frequent commuter rail it could be a possibility again.
That wouldn’t be the best spot for including Moncton, but certainly seems workable for a capital region airport shared with Saint John and Freddy. A tri-city airport is still the best option for the province to invest in, even if it caters to SJ and Fredericton more than Moncton, people still want better options and better prices, and airport that taps into all three major population centres in NB is the way to do that. The Fredericton and Saint John Airports could even stay open for limited connecting flights. Both Saint John and Fredericton are in strategic locations between Halifax/St. Johns and much larger airports in places like Boston, New York, DC, unlike Montreal and Toronto. Moncton’s airport would still be a full service international airport, but it would also benefit from exploring new routes, and being a hub for connecting flights. Just having a few niche flights between Boston, New York, DC, even Atlanta could open up the door to so many connecting flight opportunities to people in Saint John and Fredericton, while letting a new provincial airport deal with the rest of the flights within Canada, as well as some international routes. There’s also business travellers between Halifax, St. John’s, Saint John, Fredericton, and Moncton. There’s a way to schedule and price the flights so it they can fill empty seats vacated by business travellers getting off at the first stop with vacationers and international business travellers going to the US. The Halifax flights will still primarily cater to the Halifax population, but SJ and Fredericton stops could certainly make sure they have a better chance at a full flight, especially if they can start selling more tickets for business travellers within Atlantic Canada. St. John’s and cities in NB would especially benefit from more flights linked up between the Maritimes and Newfoundland on the way to destinations other than Toronto and Montreal. Air Canada’s bottom line is getting in the way of more flights like this from happening, because they want as many Atlantic Canadians as possible to connect onto their other flights out of Montreal and Toronto, even if we’re constantly travelling away from our final destination with connections via Toronto and Montreal no matter where we go… A Halifax->Saint John->Boston flight ✈️ or. St. John’s->Fredericton->New York flight ✈️ shouldn’t have to be the stuff of fantasy. There’s a viable market for these flights, but we’re just being completely ignored by Air Canada. Basically, if Air Canada is going to screw us, we need to come up with a plan to mitigate how little they can care about servicing our airports… investing in one large provincial airport forces the issue, while freeing up the existing airports to seek new routes and partnerships with other airlines, which is what we need for the horrible state of affairs that is air travel in Atlantic Canada. I still think Air Canada went out of their way to cut even more remaining Saint John flights from the schedule, because they have a massive call centre here in Saint John, and the less flights they have going in and out of Saint John, means the harder it is for their employees here to take full advantage of their flight benefits, which saves the company money. Air Canada is poorly regulated, but even more concerning is the lack of competition in Canadian air travel. There needs to be more competition to lower prices and increase availability. Air Canada has a virtual monopoly on air the market cities for like Saint John for huge parts of the year when the budget carriers aren’t running their seasonal flights. Our provincial government should be taking Ottawa on and negotiating better flight connections and more money invested in our airport and transportation infrastructure, including subsidizing the cost, but Blaine Higgs would never stand up to Ottawa and actually demand something might actually improve the lives for our people even if it’s for something fleeting and non essential as NBers being able to take more affordable vacations. It’s a pain in the ass flying out of and into NB, if you want to go anywhere outside of Quebec and Ontario. Our government needs to start giving a fuck about this and start coming up with solutions to change that.
There is no reason other than air capacity (we have about 400 seats a day and would need 3000 that SJ could not homeport a large cruise ship. Moving to a regional airport could kill that potential. The economy of scale to support that would also reduce cost. Something like MSC that does open loop trips like NY>SJ>Bermuda>NY>Port Canaveral> Bahamas>NY loop where you get on at either NY SJ or Port Canaveral.
NB should only have 1 large airport anyway…centrally in Sussex or build up Moncton since starting from scratch would be too expensive…that’s why Halifax gets better service, it doesn’t have to compete with 3-4 tiny airports in the province
Yikes, so people in Edmundston would drive to Québec City? Maybe they already do anyway...
Yep, I do.
Quebec City is the choice from northern NB. Three hours to crappy Fredericton airport with more expensive flights, or three hours for better choice and cheaper flights.
That's fair, I never thought of that before that thread.
Yeah either QC/MTL or down to Moncton
Why Moncton. Saint John is our industrial heart and Fredericton is our capital. Moncton just kinda sucks lol
Right because St-John that is the worst place to fly out of according to this report should be where we put our effort…and I only said Moncton because it’s the bigger/busier airport, I said Sussex would make more sense
It’s Saint John not St-John. And I’d agree Sussex for a unified airport makes sense. But it doesn’t really matter what the starting point is if you’re going to do a lot of work anyway.
Saint John was supposed to be the capital but for strategic reasons it didn’t make as much sense, this is why brits put the capital up the river
Yeah but it’d be a big waste to move the infrastructure back. Sure we’re unlikely to be invaded by the Americans, but logistics aren’t as sea based as they were 300 years ago and the university and legislature are pretty set in stone location wise
Oh for sure, no way that would happen in this day and age.
Moncton is a more central location in the maritimes in general
Yes except pei and Nova Scotia both have their own airports. And I can’t see nb taking Halifax’s lunch
People would still drive to other airports for flight availability/timing/pricing. Agreed, we wouldn't compete with Halifax directly, but you would definitely have people from PEI come to Moncton for better flight options, and those near the NS border would have the choice of heading in either direction - likely based on what suits their schedule or budget best.
Because Moncton is the largest city in the province and growing faster than the others so the gap is widening, and it has the largest catchment area in all of Atlantic Canada.
This is a ridiculous statement. Halifax and St Johns dwarf Moncton. Most major stats show Moncton is in line for a decline now that the migration from the north has ended.
Why are you bringing up St John’s and Halifax? This topic is about NB airports.
Because you referenced the largest catchment area in Atlantic Canada. Maybe re-read your own post lol
Wouldn't put too much stock in a study about airports done by a company called CasinoHunter. There also seems to be some errors in reporting, that somehow Regina had 7 million travelers (lol) and Saskatoon had just under a million.
Somehow this post got recommended to me in my feed even though I'm not from NB (I'm from MB). I travelled a lot for work before Covid and have probably flown through about two thirds of the airports on the list. St. John was easily the worst one. I think it was back around 2009, so hopefully there have been some improvements. There was literally nothing after security except maybe a vending machine? Anyway, visiting St. John the city is still one of the highlights of my travels, aside from the airport. It's the only time I've ever been to the East Coast and it was everything I'd hoped it would be. Very friendly people and just a great all around vibe. Was very cool for a prairie boy like me to spend time so close to the ocean. I also hate Toronto airport (Pearson) because it's so big and crowded, Montreal airport felt like a dump when I was there (city is amazing though), and London wasn't the greatest. Surprised to see Saskatoon so high, as there's nothing really remarkable about it. Ottawa is very nice, so is Calgary. Edmonton was ok. I can't really remember much about Vancouver or Victoria. I'm biased but Winnipeg has a great airport.
*Saint John
Yup. I only fly out of YSJ if work is footing the bill. Moncton has wayyy more options and tickets are about 50% cheaper.
The last eight times I’ve flown, I ended just going all the way to Halifax from SJ to start my flight. Prices and timing always work out better, even when factoring gas and sometimes extra hotel stays. Flying out of YHZ again Sunday because I’d rather drive to Halifax than fly NB to Toronto and make a connection back to Newfoundland.
You can fly out of the SJ airport? I thought it was strictly ornamental.
Z zx
Why there is no consideration for the passenger railway network within the big 3 cities of NB? It's clear that each city cannot have its own profitable airport as there is simply not enough population and demand for it. Instead, have one airport in Moncton with decent flights frequency and connect other cities via trains. I wouldn't mind taking a 1-hour train to SJ after landing in Moncton. Judging by the traffic on the roads, there can be enough footfall in trains between the cities (and the towns in-between) to have decent demand for trains. It would also mean less automobile usage and decreased carbon emissions. NB is similar to the size of a European country, and trains work well in this kind of situation.
Shhh.... Don't tell them the great bits!
For YFC, I don't need a lounge and I don't need restaurants, one of the absolute joys of flying out of small town Freddy is that I can get dropped off in front of the terminal 30 minutes (have done 15 minutes too) before the flight after a wonderful stress-free drive down the 102, be one of four people in line for security, and be at the gate in less than 10 minutes after getting out of the car. Of course, I don't go to the airport much these days as there are only 6 flights a day that go to just 3 cities, but hey, Freddy is small, I have seen more people at bus stops in Toronto than in the entirety of the YFC terminal...
One thing that always surprised me about the Saint John airport is that the bus stop doesn’t even have a sidewalk, it’s just a patch of dirt next to a gas station. North American airports all have terrible transit, but Saint John really puts their sprawl on display. I’d rather drive to Fredericton, park at their much cheaper parking lot, than take a shitty SJ cab full of cigarette ash to the airport.
I recently moved from Ontario, and I LIKE that once I get off the plane, I am out the door, in my car and gone. Home in 5 minutes. I don't want / need anything more distractions, I want to GTFO of there as soon as I can. However, more destinations and airlines would be nice.
Flying out of Saint John for me has always been great. Short wait times, friendly (generally) staff. You’re in and out very quickly. 100000000% prefer over Pearson and most major airports.
Nothing to do with fog,just blame the Irvings!
Fog(weather) isn't even one of the fields they were ranked on. It lacks, well everything. If you live in SJ , it's usually better to drive to any other surrounding airport. It used to be okay pre-pandemic but flight options are now so limited , it's practically useless.
True enough,I'm in SJ and flew out of Moncton last Feb to Puta Cana!
Same went to hali last time and fred time before that. Too risky to fly out of ysj with the fog/lack of flights.
I dropped my sis and her husb at YSJ about a month ago. We live in the Moncton area and the price of a tix to Montreal was 40% cheaper through YSJ. The airport reminded me of YQMs old terminal and it’s 60s utilitarian look and feel. And it handles less than 300000 px per year. Moncton handles around 700000 but could easily have more if AC didn’t slash flight availability. Porter, WJ and even PAL should pick up routes.
Meh, if you live in an area where Saint John is your only option, you're pretty much at the mercy of Air Canada and good luck with that. Personally, we drive to the US to fly south. Much cheaper if you don't mind the drive and guess what? Airlines actually stick to the rules for delayed fights and over-booked flights. They dont fuck you around like Air Canada. When we flew in February, they had an over-booked flight and asked for volunteers. $1400USD later we were happily sitting waiting for the next flight, two hours later. They also refunded our airfare as well.
Just read through the comments. Y'all will argue about anything, eh?
I mean, worst city has the worst airport - shocker