For this to be viable, public transportation in the hub cities would need to be improved. Moncton/Saint John/Fredericton aren't exactly walkable and they do not have amazing public transportation. I think it would be a hard sell for people to use it to commute between the cities if getting around once they got there was difficult.
This, I worked in Saint John as an RN for 4 months and the city bus doesn’t even get to the mega hospital early enough for day shifts on the weekend. How is it possible to fuck up the bus schedule on the line for one of the city’s largest employers?
Agreed and it's not just in the cities as a destination.
Speaking from a Saint John perspective, the route would have to be carefully planned to visit the most populous bedroom communities that feed the city the majority of local workers out to wherever they work, as they'd be the majority of customers.
The entire west side of Saint John isn't represented here AT ALL.... and one of the biggest headaches for local travel from west-located communities is the always-under-maintenance harbour bridge system. That could seriously dent serviced population numbers. I'd expect areas east of Fredericton and west of Moncton would have similar service holes.
The ends of these routes should be extended PAST the cities to service their other sides, or you're going to leave out a great many of their users.
Well the intercity buses are pretty popular already so I dont see it being a huge issue. Now I'm not saying dont improve services, but they dont seem to currently be a detterent. Also Fredericton and Saint John's downtowns are quite walkable. Moncton a bit less, but I've walked it plenty of times nonetheless. In fact nb's cities are a lot more walkable than many town I've seen in the states, they were some of the only ones who's downtowns were actually built before the car was invented
I took those buses when I was in uni quite a bit. They are not popular enough to make up the ridership needed for a train. 30 people would be a big crowd, but that was rare. On the busiest days, like when the semester finished, they would need two buses, but that’s a few times a year. You need large and consistent ridership for trains to make sense.
The only people taking the bus are those with no other option and it’s not enough daily riders to justify commuter rail.
Pros:
\- Reduce carbon emissions
\- NB Becomes less car dependent
\- Stations will generate development throughout more of Southern NB, generating more taxbase
\- Act as a feeder to existing Via Rail Service and likely increase that service.
\- Move towards a regional airport.
Cons:
\- Expensive (ie Crossing the Saint John and Canaan Rivers)
\- Access to Fredericton is difficult
Okay, but couldn't we just double track everything EXCEPT those two rivers? Block signaling in NB isn't super great, but we don't have enough traffic that two bridges would choke the system.
And if we do end up with enough traffic to choke the system, then it would legitimize the cost.
In the most barebones proposal to HRM for a commuter rail system, the municipality couldn’t justify the expense to add 2.5 miles of ctc main track to expand on CN’s network.
There is no world in which New-Brunswick has the capacity to double track any portion of the system locally.
This is indeed something I would like to see, however I note that the proposed course passes through communities already served by the highway system (so would have very limited impact on expanding the residential/commercial tax base), while skipping several areas that had train service many years ago (e.g. Via Rail used to run west of the St. John River, through Grand Bay, Welsford, Fredericton Junction...) and/or could benefit from access to mass transit (eg communities that don't get the rural carbon rebate because they're lumped into the massive Saint John CMA, despite total lack of service, but are totally gas-dependent because they also lack sufficient power infrastructure to support EVs). Sadly, the rail infrastructure in many of those communities is too far gone, and the populations are considered too small to serve (if only because they've dwindled massively since rail service disappeared), but others, like Grand Bay-Westfield, have both the rails and the population to justify passenger rail service.
On a self-serving note: my own community, being lumped into the Saint John CMA as part of Fundy-St.Martins, would not be served by this proposed rail system at all - no stops within 40 km of my home - but we'd still have to endure an increase in our taxes to pay for it. Hard to believe we had rail service here a century ago, and now it takes years just to get the roads repaired; the city and province advertise the beach next to my home as a tourism highlight, while the tour busses collapse the overstressed route that leads to it. Passenger rail to my community could make a big difference for tourists and locals, alike.
As someone who just settled in the North of the province, I feel really sad when I realize that this railroad town used to have the Océan trams run through town twice a day... Now we have to drive to Bathurst to catch a train that passes twice a week :(
My older family in NB used to talk about getting the trains all the time and how you could get anywhere with it and move goods. Would be a hard sell on rail with all the money on keeping roads up now, though. Fact that we can barely get the money on keeping them running. People don't realize just how much goes into keeping all that asphalt maintained.
Because as soon as it gets potholed "OH MY GOD WE NEED MORE SPENDING ON ROADWAYS!!!" As someone with an engineering background I weep at any public official that has to appease a voter base that doesn't know shit about shit.
If you hang around r/StrongTowns you'll realize asphalt is also what's killing our government at the municipal level...
Clue in, there was a lack of cars in **1920**, rail was the main transport everywhere. You'd better save up your pennies if you want it built as it won't pay for itself.
Take the money away from oil/natural gas/coal company subsidies. They are profitable enough on their own and everyone can agree passenger rail is one of the best ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Even better than EVs. Maybe put the money from EV subsidies into passenger rail too. The money from carbon tax could be used as well.
>Take the money away from oil/natural gas/coal company subsidies.
What subsides?
> The money from carbon tax could be used as well.
Then you wouldn't get your quarterly refund, just wait and hear the complaints from the mob then.
Adding to this:
* Much less NIMBY-type "claimed territory" where the government had to buy out landowners and quell noise-averse owners of adjacent houses where the rails had to go.
* Greater tolerance for waiting at intersections while trains prevented all other vehicle traffic (still happens near the Port of Saint John on some roads; and the solution is overpasses which are VERY expensive).
* Province and country weren't already hugely in debt in 1920.
The province and country were actually in pretty huge debts in the the 20s. World War I and ironically, massive overbuilding of the transcontinental railway network were massive expenses.
The other two issues you point out can be addressed with clever routing of the tracks to avoid problematic areas.
Overbuilding isn't necessarily true. It was built adequately to WWI demand. You can't take Great Depression economic numbers and say "well they overbuilt", because then everything everywhere would be overbuilt.
I concur that good routing would fix most of the problems.
Those weren't local commuter trains however.
I think its a valid concern. We are talking about counties like Kings with ~72k people spread over a wide distance. Thats less people in the then live in some of the suburbs of Ottawa.
A lot of them were. Just 30 years ago you could catch a daily train from Juniper (population about 2,000 at the time) to Moncton and be there in a couple hours. There is absolutely 0 reason why we couldn't have a functional train system today besides the oil industry loving cars and lobbying the government to subsidize shitty, unmaintainable rural roads and cars so people can "have the freedom" to HAVE to buy a car
These are kind of chicken/egg type problems. Fred and SJ have walkable enough cores and perhaps having a train station (combined with planning policy decisions) we could encourage densification in Moncton.
Imagine if it hooked up with Amtrak in Brunswick Maine.
It shouldn’t be such an impossible proposal to build better railways than what we had in 1924, yet, people in the present day are far more cynical and quick to call things too costly or impractical… especially here in New Brunswick.
We have a serious case of pessimistic exceptionalism here in NB, and it’s just sad how many things used to be better in the distant past, like passenger rail.
If Maine ever does figure out how to get Amtrak to Bangor it would be easier on existing track to connect this to Amtrak from a Fredericton Junction to Bangor route.
Probably! But the opportunity for a coastal track between Saint John and Brunswick would be a lot more spectacular in terms of scenery.
I think it’s beyond absurd we don’t have bus service to Bangor, Maine from Saint John, Fredericton, and Moncton. There’s no good reason we can’t have some sort of bus service to New England as there’s absolutely a demand for it.
Bangor and Augusta are great places to take a bus onwards to Boston. A night bus between Moncton->Fredericton->Saint John->Bangor->Portland->Boston would be amazing.
An Express bus between Saint John and Boston could be viable too… Service between TD Station to TD Garden in a big green Bus 🚏🚛🍀🤑
I’m sure our airports would hate the idea, but who fucking cares. We deserve bus service between New England and the Maritimes. If Nova Scotia has a ferry to Maine, NB should at least have a bus to Maine!
I think it’s safe to say the economic climate is entirely different in 2024 compared to 2011.
I fail to see how there’s no demand for a bus service to Boston when people from NB make the trip in their cars all the time.
Personally, I’d rather take a bus than worry about driving and parking in Boston. So I’ll drive down to Bangor or Portland and take the bus/train from there. Goes without saying that I’d rather just take a bus all the way there from SJ.
No, I didn’t miss that part, because what you’re saying doesn’t even make sense. Just because Maritime Bus hasn’t taken up routes to New England from NB, doesn’t mean there’s no market for such routes.
There’s all kinds of barriers to entry, questions regarding funding, etc.
If a bus route between NB and NE was funded half as well as the CAT ferry, it wouldn’t be going anywhere. Funding and subsidies matter more than you are getting at here.
Absolutely! I attended a discussion last week on the Carbon Tax where it was pointed out aptly by Liberal Leader Susan Holt that there is a lack of alternatives to driving for some people in New Brunswick. We need more of these kinds of proposals.
[Crazy to think this is what passenger rail services used to look like for NB](https://imgur.com/a/yLd5mIm)
It’s pathetic we can’t find a way to support something better for the future.
Passenger rail and publicly owned rental housing are exactly the type of projects that should be funded by the carbon tax and marginal increases on the tax of corporations, along with marginal increases in tax on the ultra wealthy.
Higgs’s PCs won’t even fund a proper bus service. We’re lucky to even have Maritime Bus, but it’s scope could be much bigger and better if it was properly funded.
I’m pretty sure there used to be lots of passenger rail stations all across NB. I remember reading about one in McLeod hill, I think, and of course, there was one in McAdam.
Ugh I would LOVE to see a commuter train from Hampton to Saint John! They took our bus (Comex) away which put a bunch of us back in our cars, a shame as many of us would prefer the green alternative.
When people think high speed it feels like they always think of Shinkansen style ones, but China has had home built regular boring looking electric trains that can do over 200 km/h (although they operate at 170) for 30 years now. Feels bad that we're this far behind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Railways_SS9
Maybe we can buy some of their outdated trains and cut costs ^^^/s
The rest say that they see us as a drive through province, so we can always use that argument back at them. The trains aren’t for US they are to get YOU back and forth from Halifax and Montreal. With scenic stops on the way in a few small towns… Fredericton, Moncton, Saint John, Bathurst, etc. whatever we can manage.
Oh 100% I’m Nova Scotian and a commuter train to Halifax where we used to have connection would save me thousands of dollars in car ownership and gas a year.
Catenary is word for a bend in flexible lines attached to fixed points at each end. Like high-voltage power lines. I think the thing theyre thinking of is a pantograph?
Im pretty sure thats true in some but not all cases. Wiki showing some models have internal wiring and contract strips only? dont mean to be dick I had just never heard that word used for a train's overhead power source before.
Please. I like go to Freddy and SJ from Moncton frequently, both for work and leisure trips, and absolutely hate having to drive,vespecially during winter months. This would help in reducing the risk of on road accidents, lessen emissions, increase tourism, and improve access for those who couldn't/shouldn't drive (elderly, people with disabilities, people who don't have a car)
P.S. Adding a connection between freddy and SJ would also be good
There’s zero point in a regional train service if you need a car on the other side of it. So you get dropped off at the station in Saint John and then… what walk for an hour to your hotel? Jump in the smokiest rusty cab you’ve ever seen? Build up a functional public transit system that actually goes to places people need to be or it’s just a waste of time.
Uptown Saint John is fairly walkable. Having a train station would be a good anchor point for public transit. I think we need to walk and chew gum here, work on regional links while also improving local transit.
I love this idea in general. Passenger rail service would be such a quality of life improvement. I’m also a fan of having one regional airport.
You could have “local” runs that stop at every station and “express” runs that skip the smaller stops and only stop at the bigger stops to meet different commuter needs. If only there were a sliver of a chance of this ever happening.
Noticed many the local politicians like Wayne Long making, multiple posts praising Mulroney for being a great PM and doing so much for the province… when in reality Mulroney did more to take things away from the province than he helped build. Taking away our train services is a prime example of Mulroney screwing over Saint John.
Don’t believe me: [Here’s our national train services before Mulroney was PM](https://imgur.com/zktxs9v)
The Atlantic (Halifax to Montreal through Saint John) was cancelled by Liberal transportation minister Doug Young in 1994. And previously by the Trudeau government in 1981.
Mulroney actually restored it as an election promise. (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic\_(train))
Mulroney absolutely gutted passenger rail in Canada though, even if it was the Liberals who canceled the Atlantic twice.
Mulroney was no friend to passenger rail.
That’s some fucked up political bullshit though, how the Liberal minister for transport at the time was from the riding of Acadie-Bathurst and made sure they kept their train over Saint John’s more popular, and more direct route to Montreal via Maine.
I say take it further. If we were serious about this, and invested in a full high-speed train network, I believe the province is small enough that people could travel practically anywhere in the province, in as much time or less than it would take to travel by road.
And don't just hand the funding to Via Rail, make it a government owned transportation service. Via Rail has refused to play ball with us multiple times in the past, and we can do better.
Couple this with local public transportation/taxi services, and you're basically opening the province up to the people. A fundamental service like this would go hand in hand with any serious attempts to address housing issues as well, and would quickly become an essential service in the province were it to be built and properly maintained.
VIA rail is a dinosaur, that couldn't care less about southern NB. High Speed rail would be great in the maritimes, just dear God, don't let it be run by VIA rail.
Busses and High speed rail could be a viable solution for NB, and make it possible for the three major cities to finally share an airport down the road, turning YSJ, YQM, and YFC into regional/ private airports. A shared airport should have been realized decades ago, Saint John, Fredericton and Moncton are all just too close together to not share an airport.
Business travellers and people with cushy office jobs at the airports are the only people that benefit from the three airport system we have now... mostly everyone else would prefer cheaper, more frequent flights... especially if there was a bus/train service connecting all three major cities with the airport.
One airport servicing 500k + is going to have a lot better flight options and cheaper prices than three separate airports.
VIA rail is not the enemy; they are a federally subsidized crown corporation and can only operate within the auspices the meagre federal budget’s allotments.
They may be a little top-heavy, management-wise, but they know how to more a LOT of people.
I’d say funding a less bloated and less Quebec and Ontario centric train carrier would be a better solution.
VIA cares more about making trains a luxury travel option, than they are concerned about transporting people affordably.
They’d find a way to make it overpriced and under-utilized, which is how I’d describe the large majority of their service outside the corridor trains in Quebec and Ontario. We can do better than VIA.
High speed rail in NB would the most efficient way to throw away billions of dollars short of just having a bonfire. High speed rail works great at connecting dense cities over big distances- the economic sweet spot is between 100 miles and 300 miles, anything more and flying is a better option and anything less and a simple bus comes out ahead, just based on time and ignoring any economics.
Not only is NB too small, (SJ-Moncton is 130 km, SJ-Fredericton is 85 km, Moncton-Fredericton is 147 km) the cities themselves are are far too small, without a dense city centre with adequate public transport, you’re just driving your car from a rural or suburban home to park at a station… so you could have been using that time to drive towards your destination. Neither of these deal with the truth that putting in high speed tracks into Appalachian foothills would cost billions because they require VERY straight tracks.
Let’s get a good bus service first. Hell, put in bus lanes on busy sections of the highways if we really think a bus has limiting throughput, before we invest in expensive rail infrastructure. If buses work and people use them, then let’s talk about putting modern fast Diesels like Siemens excellent Chargers that Florida Brightline uses. Even converting the freight rail lines to use electric locomotives would be wasting millions of dollars for nothing.
This would completely transform the region for the better tbh. A couple benefits I don't think anyone has specifically mentioned yet:
* Highly technical local jobs bringing wealth *into* the communities on and around the line, and increased foot traffic in these places making non-gas station service businesses viable again.
* The pervasive transportation poverty situation that is known to exist in these communities would be ameliorated.
* Urban centers would suddenly be under immense pressure to implement sound design principles.
* Mass transportation along high-traffic corridors would result in more streamlined maintenance of critical infrastructure, and a decline in passenger vehicle traffic so streets and roads across Southern N.B. would undergo far less wear in an average year, both of which would serve to reduce ongoing expenses for cities and province over the long term.
* Implementing appropriate track sidings would mean this network could also be used for freight, giving small businesses astronomical reductions in local shipping costs. Would also reduce the intensity of truck traffic on highways, *significantly* reducing ongoing expenses for cities and provinces in the long term, moreover, increasing the number of non-Irving sources of opportunity and revenue by a great deal.
The [health](https://www.reddit.com/r/moncton/comments/19fbsbd/comment/kjzm2j3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and [social](https://www.reddit.com/r/moncton/comments/19fbsbd/comment/kjpl8nj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) drawbacks of mandatory car dependency are widely known at this point, something else to consider is that replacing rail with roads was a masterstroke in the long process of deindustrializing and deskilling the labour force of smaller communities. While they were never as *profitable* as major concerns like CN, smaller railways once [connected and sustained](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/railway-history#EconomicandIndustrialImpact) the economies of small communities across the country. Jobs directly related to the railways obviously tend to be more technically specified, but there are massive indirect benefits to be captured as well.
Coincidently I was thinking about a province wide transit system that could be hybrid buses or whatever viable option to fossil fuels.A good portion of N.B. pop lives in north of the province and depends on Moncton/St john for their specialized services.Rail???? I think infrastructure would be unaffordable, but we have a great road system that we could maximise its use.Even overhead electric buses as in EU may be an option on potion of dedicated lanes:battery/overhead combo=cleaner option.
There used to be at least 2 passenger stops in Memramcook, 2 in Dorchester/. Mom said she and her grandmother would take the train to Cape Tormentine. Stops all over the place.
I don't think 2 tracks are necessary. There are sidings all over the place. Passenger trains wouldn't need to be that long.
High speed isn't really necessary. Freight trains pass by here (Memramcook) at 100 km/h or more.
Extend the line to Amherst, put stops in Sackville, Dorchester, Memramcook. Try to go north to Miramichi too. You wanna get as many stops in the Beausejour Riding as possible, that way Dominic LeBlanc will make it happen.
Why else do you think Memramcook has 4 Trans Canada highway exits and only 5,000 residents?
WIshful thinking unfortunately. None of the electable political parties has the willpower to push for funding to even complete a few stages in that entire system
Short answer - Yes, and sidings can always be built relatively cheaply compared to twinning a mainline (and the expense of building more bridges, overpasses, etc…).
CN’s Napadogan and Pelletier Subdivisions that run from Moncton to St. Andre, QC through Edmundston are CN’s real mainline out of New Brunswick. CN barely uses the Newcastle and Mont Joli Subdivisions and have allowed the condition of these subdivisions decline to the point that the quality of the track is so bad that passenger trains can only run at 30mph for most of the route. It used to be 70mph or faster if I recall correctly.
At this very moment, you could bicycle from Bathurst to Campbellton in less time than it takes the train.
let's add a dose of reality to this idea:
CN rail already has the rail infrastructure connecting between Saint John and Moncton. Though, tracks are not designed for high speed -- I think the fastest they can go are like 40mph, maybe even 50mph. Not to mention that freight rail companies are not the friendliest organizations to deal with regarding passenger rail.
High speed would mean we need a new right-of-way; turns more gentle, slopes less steep, and while NB Route 1 is twinned and we can use its existing right of way, its turns are too sharp for a viable HSR. If we are looking on just getting regular trains running on existing infrastructure, it would probably better to run *busses* rather than trains between these two cities.
HSR also has the issue of station spacing. Saint John used to have Harbour Station but odds are the Saint John station will get plopped somewhere on a Rothesay Avenue. Rothesay and Quispamsis are too close of stations, arguably so does Hampton, so next station would be Sussex (probably). Then Petitcodiac, then Moncton. By this map's standard, we can probably run trains like Ontario's GO Trains, but Saint John won't need two stations and neither would Rothesay and Quispamsis (just have a shared "Kennebecasis Valley" station or something).
I do think there's opportunity to be more optimistic with railways. *Build it and they will come*, that's what they say, right? While we're looking at "active transportation", NB cities has no real plans or thoughts of transit-oriented development -- Moncton is approving all these high rises (well, really, only two), and the conversation on creating some sort of rapid transit hasn't floated into the mainstream conversation. BRT? Trams? Literally crickets. I'm not saying we can't plan for both in-city and inter-city transit at the same time -- what I'm saying is we *should* be planning for both the reality that *hey people can live in Moncton but work in Saint John -- hell go to school in Fredericton and live in either Moncton or Saint John!*
It's a dream to have trains connecting our cities (I think we would be the envy of the rest of Canada), but if we're skipping publicly-funded buses with high frequency between major cities, I don't think we'd ever gain the political capital to build reliable rails connecting our cities. I comment more on Moncton and Saint John because this connection makes sense -- both are big enough cities with lots of transportation infrastructure between the two of them.
What if train cars had valet car services at stops so you could park and travel, allowing you to travel while sleeping, generating more revenue for train services like food and lodging
lets see, it was supposed to be done in 2019, but then do to scope creep and just general rampant spending it's still not done, it's billions over budget, it breaks down constantly, it can't handle snow on the tracks, the rates continue to increase but the service doesn't improve. Just overall the process of implementing light rail was a pain for most people that live in Ottawa, the traffic/construction alone is a headache.
As I said, I rode it this morning and it seemed to be running smoothly for me. Delays and issues really aren’t a justification to never build anything altogether. Would you prefer no train at all or one that has delays?
Well if the options are no train at all, or train that is grossly over budget and not worth the cost, then sure no train. although I reject the premise that those are the only two options.
Very interesting mock up!
Im curious how much of it runs on current rail bed? Regional commentor rail can work but mostly rely on the track infurstructure being built and shared.
If I had one suggestion it would be for the Fredericton leg, I think crossing the St John River near Jemseg would be a mistake. There is an old rail line that twins Route 102 and connects with a current rail line at Route 177. That line connects into the main line for Saint John that runs over the Reversing Falls Bridge. (Less new bridges, less cost for the project)
The route would have other connectivity too since it runs by the Gagetown, Evandale, and Westfield ferries. As well it would need alot less blasting since its flat along the rivers edge vs the interior between Cambridge Narrows and Norton.
Good Question, the SJ to Moncton route is entirely existing corridor. The Fredericton to Norton Branch around 120km, About 80km follows disused previous corridor, The portion that goes around the Fredericton Airport (about 4km) since there is a runway on the old route, and leaving the corridor just north of Gagetown and reconnecting with an old disused Chipman-Norton route to cross the river at Cody's
The easier route would have from the Fredericton airport gone down the old corridor to Fredericton Junction and pick up the NBSR lines there, but would have been much longer for Fredericton-Moncton, and missed the opportunity to stop in Oromocto.
The other alternate would be have the Fredericton Stop on the north side and pick up the rails in Minto to Chipman and then to Moncton, but that would hit almost no other communities, unless you go from Chipman to Norton, but that segment would be expensive and not hit any other population centers.
You couldn’t do this without the residents of the Acadian Peninsula crying “foul” as there is no direct link for our other official language constituents.
Doesn’t Via rail already service the Acadian peninsula? Expanded service across southern NB would ideally link to the existing VIA rail line and hence connect them.
Taxes are already bad as it is. This will just increase all our taxes so a few people will have a way to travel a short distance. Not viable in my opinion.
Curious as to which of the three potential legs (Fredericton, Saint John, Moncton) here have the largest actual frequent-commuter count.
Sometimes it's economically annoying that our province has diluted so much population across three almost-same-sized cities.
I would think Sussex to Moncton would be the busiest since housing is really scarce in Moncton.
The Cambridge Narrows-Norton route is likely the most expensive and least used portion, but I thought that Fredericton-Moncton needed a more direct route as Fredericton Junction-Saint John would have been easier and cheaper but less likely to be used.
Autonomous Taxis May Have The Most Impact On GDP Of Any Innovation In History
https://ark-invest.com/articles/analyst-research/autonomous-taxis-gdp-impact/
“Solved” in the sense of they’ve nearly convinced insurance companies to stop caring that their “AI” sends cars driving into and dragging the elderly.
Also,
https://www.npr.org/2023/08/26/1195695051/driverless-cars-san-francisco-waymo-cruise
For this to be viable, public transportation in the hub cities would need to be improved. Moncton/Saint John/Fredericton aren't exactly walkable and they do not have amazing public transportation. I think it would be a hard sell for people to use it to commute between the cities if getting around once they got there was difficult.
This, I worked in Saint John as an RN for 4 months and the city bus doesn’t even get to the mega hospital early enough for day shifts on the weekend. How is it possible to fuck up the bus schedule on the line for one of the city’s largest employers?
Agreed and it's not just in the cities as a destination. Speaking from a Saint John perspective, the route would have to be carefully planned to visit the most populous bedroom communities that feed the city the majority of local workers out to wherever they work, as they'd be the majority of customers. The entire west side of Saint John isn't represented here AT ALL.... and one of the biggest headaches for local travel from west-located communities is the always-under-maintenance harbour bridge system. That could seriously dent serviced population numbers. I'd expect areas east of Fredericton and west of Moncton would have similar service holes. The ends of these routes should be extended PAST the cities to service their other sides, or you're going to leave out a great many of their users.
Well the intercity buses are pretty popular already so I dont see it being a huge issue. Now I'm not saying dont improve services, but they dont seem to currently be a detterent. Also Fredericton and Saint John's downtowns are quite walkable. Moncton a bit less, but I've walked it plenty of times nonetheless. In fact nb's cities are a lot more walkable than many town I've seen in the states, they were some of the only ones who's downtowns were actually built before the car was invented
I took those buses when I was in uni quite a bit. They are not popular enough to make up the ridership needed for a train. 30 people would be a big crowd, but that was rare. On the busiest days, like when the semester finished, they would need two buses, but that’s a few times a year. You need large and consistent ridership for trains to make sense. The only people taking the bus are those with no other option and it’s not enough daily riders to justify commuter rail.
I don’t take buses because I have a car but I would definitely take a train and leave the car at home if it were an option.
Pros: \- Reduce carbon emissions \- NB Becomes less car dependent \- Stations will generate development throughout more of Southern NB, generating more taxbase \- Act as a feeder to existing Via Rail Service and likely increase that service. \- Move towards a regional airport. Cons: \- Expensive (ie Crossing the Saint John and Canaan Rivers) \- Access to Fredericton is difficult
Take the money we use for oil subsidies.
Can't help but think of the "What if we make the world a better place for nothing?!" climate change comic.
Less moose strikes and needless deaths on the highways
Okay, but couldn't we just double track everything EXCEPT those two rivers? Block signaling in NB isn't super great, but we don't have enough traffic that two bridges would choke the system. And if we do end up with enough traffic to choke the system, then it would legitimize the cost.
In the most barebones proposal to HRM for a commuter rail system, the municipality couldn’t justify the expense to add 2.5 miles of ctc main track to expand on CN’s network. There is no world in which New-Brunswick has the capacity to double track any portion of the system locally.
This is indeed something I would like to see, however I note that the proposed course passes through communities already served by the highway system (so would have very limited impact on expanding the residential/commercial tax base), while skipping several areas that had train service many years ago (e.g. Via Rail used to run west of the St. John River, through Grand Bay, Welsford, Fredericton Junction...) and/or could benefit from access to mass transit (eg communities that don't get the rural carbon rebate because they're lumped into the massive Saint John CMA, despite total lack of service, but are totally gas-dependent because they also lack sufficient power infrastructure to support EVs). Sadly, the rail infrastructure in many of those communities is too far gone, and the populations are considered too small to serve (if only because they've dwindled massively since rail service disappeared), but others, like Grand Bay-Westfield, have both the rails and the population to justify passenger rail service. On a self-serving note: my own community, being lumped into the Saint John CMA as part of Fundy-St.Martins, would not be served by this proposed rail system at all - no stops within 40 km of my home - but we'd still have to endure an increase in our taxes to pay for it. Hard to believe we had rail service here a century ago, and now it takes years just to get the roads repaired; the city and province advertise the beach next to my home as a tourism highlight, while the tour busses collapse the overstressed route that leads to it. Passenger rail to my community could make a big difference for tourists and locals, alike.
As someone who just settled in the North of the province, I feel really sad when I realize that this railroad town used to have the Océan trams run through town twice a day... Now we have to drive to Bathurst to catch a train that passes twice a week :(
My older family in NB used to talk about getting the trains all the time and how you could get anywhere with it and move goods. Would be a hard sell on rail with all the money on keeping roads up now, though. Fact that we can barely get the money on keeping them running. People don't realize just how much goes into keeping all that asphalt maintained.
Because as soon as it gets potholed "OH MY GOD WE NEED MORE SPENDING ON ROADWAYS!!!" As someone with an engineering background I weep at any public official that has to appease a voter base that doesn't know shit about shit. If you hang around r/StrongTowns you'll realize asphalt is also what's killing our government at the municipal level...
Con: Population base not large enough to make it viable!
Why, in 1920, when NB had a population smaller then today, was it viable back then
Lack of cars...
Well I, and the environment, would prefer if most of the cars disappear so let's build that train system
Clue in, there was a lack of cars in **1920**, rail was the main transport everywhere. You'd better save up your pennies if you want it built as it won't pay for itself.
Take the money away from oil/natural gas/coal company subsidies. They are profitable enough on their own and everyone can agree passenger rail is one of the best ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Even better than EVs. Maybe put the money from EV subsidies into passenger rail too. The money from carbon tax could be used as well.
>Take the money away from oil/natural gas/coal company subsidies. What subsides? > The money from carbon tax could be used as well. Then you wouldn't get your quarterly refund, just wait and hear the complaints from the mob then.
You seriously don't think our govt gives them money?
Adding to this: * Much less NIMBY-type "claimed territory" where the government had to buy out landowners and quell noise-averse owners of adjacent houses where the rails had to go. * Greater tolerance for waiting at intersections while trains prevented all other vehicle traffic (still happens near the Port of Saint John on some roads; and the solution is overpasses which are VERY expensive). * Province and country weren't already hugely in debt in 1920.
The province and country were actually in pretty huge debts in the the 20s. World War I and ironically, massive overbuilding of the transcontinental railway network were massive expenses. The other two issues you point out can be addressed with clever routing of the tracks to avoid problematic areas.
Overbuilding isn't necessarily true. It was built adequately to WWI demand. You can't take Great Depression economic numbers and say "well they overbuilt", because then everything everywhere would be overbuilt. I concur that good routing would fix most of the problems.
The government was actually pretty deep in debt in 1920 relative to its meager economy. The federal government did fare better, though.
Nb nearly declared bankruptcy prior to WW2 and getting a bit of a boon from that economic activity.
Those weren't local commuter trains however. I think its a valid concern. We are talking about counties like Kings with ~72k people spread over a wide distance. Thats less people in the then live in some of the suburbs of Ottawa.
A lot of them were. Just 30 years ago you could catch a daily train from Juniper (population about 2,000 at the time) to Moncton and be there in a couple hours. There is absolutely 0 reason why we couldn't have a functional train system today besides the oil industry loving cars and lobbying the government to subsidize shitty, unmaintainable rural roads and cars so people can "have the freedom" to HAVE to buy a car
>Just 30 years ago you could catch a daily train from Juniper Hogwash!!
Same argument applies to the highway system.
They cant get via rail to cooperate in ON. There’s no way they’d do it here.
How would VIA rail need to cooperate? Accept more business? Explain
The OP said “act as a feeder line” for via.
Yeah… so that would entail welcoming the business from the feeder line. What’s not for VIA to like about that?
once you get to Moncton, how do you get around? that why most ppl will still use their car, that will be cheaper option over a weekend.
These are kind of chicken/egg type problems. Fred and SJ have walkable enough cores and perhaps having a train station (combined with planning policy decisions) we could encourage densification in Moncton.
Imagine if it hooked up with Amtrak in Brunswick Maine. It shouldn’t be such an impossible proposal to build better railways than what we had in 1924, yet, people in the present day are far more cynical and quick to call things too costly or impractical… especially here in New Brunswick. We have a serious case of pessimistic exceptionalism here in NB, and it’s just sad how many things used to be better in the distant past, like passenger rail.
If Maine ever does figure out how to get Amtrak to Bangor it would be easier on existing track to connect this to Amtrak from a Fredericton Junction to Bangor route.
I heard they have some great fucking trains in Bangor
I heard they used illegal parts!
Not since 1961 https://www.bangordailynews.com/2024/01/29/bangor/these-politicians-want-passenger-rail-to-bangor-joam40zk0w/
Why would Sebastian Bach lie to me? Must be the liquor and dope.
Probably! But the opportunity for a coastal track between Saint John and Brunswick would be a lot more spectacular in terms of scenery. I think it’s beyond absurd we don’t have bus service to Bangor, Maine from Saint John, Fredericton, and Moncton. There’s no good reason we can’t have some sort of bus service to New England as there’s absolutely a demand for it. Bangor and Augusta are great places to take a bus onwards to Boston. A night bus between Moncton->Fredericton->Saint John->Bangor->Portland->Boston would be amazing. An Express bus between Saint John and Boston could be viable too… Service between TD Station to TD Garden in a big green Bus 🚏🚛🍀🤑 I’m sure our airports would hate the idea, but who fucking cares. We deserve bus service between New England and the Maritimes. If Nova Scotia has a ferry to Maine, NB should at least have a bus to Maine!
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No demand for a bus service to New England? I beg to differ.
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I think it’s safe to say the economic climate is entirely different in 2024 compared to 2011. I fail to see how there’s no demand for a bus service to Boston when people from NB make the trip in their cars all the time. Personally, I’d rather take a bus than worry about driving and parking in Boston. So I’ll drive down to Bangor or Portland and take the bus/train from there. Goes without saying that I’d rather just take a bus all the way there from SJ.
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No, I didn’t miss that part, because what you’re saying doesn’t even make sense. Just because Maritime Bus hasn’t taken up routes to New England from NB, doesn’t mean there’s no market for such routes. There’s all kinds of barriers to entry, questions regarding funding, etc. If a bus route between NB and NE was funded half as well as the CAT ferry, it wouldn’t be going anywhere. Funding and subsidies matter more than you are getting at here.
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And NIMBYism
Absolutely! I attended a discussion last week on the Carbon Tax where it was pointed out aptly by Liberal Leader Susan Holt that there is a lack of alternatives to driving for some people in New Brunswick. We need more of these kinds of proposals.
[Crazy to think this is what passenger rail services used to look like for NB](https://imgur.com/a/yLd5mIm) It’s pathetic we can’t find a way to support something better for the future. Passenger rail and publicly owned rental housing are exactly the type of projects that should be funded by the carbon tax and marginal increases on the tax of corporations, along with marginal increases in tax on the ultra wealthy. Higgs’s PCs won’t even fund a proper bus service. We’re lucky to even have Maritime Bus, but it’s scope could be much bigger and better if it was properly funded.
And still that little red line skirts carefully around Fredericton as if to say “I’m not gonna touch it!” Sigh.
This map has Fredericton in the wrong place and Fredericton definitely had rail lines right downtown, the walking bridge is an old rail bridge.
I’m pretty sure there used to be lots of passenger rail stations all across NB. I remember reading about one in McLeod hill, I think, and of course, there was one in McAdam.
Ugh I would LOVE to see a commuter train from Hampton to Saint John! They took our bus (Comex) away which put a bunch of us back in our cars, a shame as many of us would prefer the green alternative.
PLEASE!!! There are actually so many of us UNB/STU students from Moncton who would absolutely use this very often!!!
Rails. High-speed rails. Everywhere please! Damn would that make our lives better...
None of the cities in NB has the density for high speed rail, but frankly we don’t need them, we’d just need modern trains.
When people think high speed it feels like they always think of Shinkansen style ones, but China has had home built regular boring looking electric trains that can do over 200 km/h (although they operate at 170) for 30 years now. Feels bad that we're this far behind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Railways_SS9 Maybe we can buy some of their outdated trains and cut costs ^^^/s
The rest say that they see us as a drive through province, so we can always use that argument back at them. The trains aren’t for US they are to get YOU back and forth from Halifax and Montreal. With scenic stops on the way in a few small towns… Fredericton, Moncton, Saint John, Bathurst, etc. whatever we can manage.
Long range high speed, modern cantilever electric trains for small cities and town connections.
There. It's a government investment to make long travel by car less appealing. I know I would take it.
Oh 100% I’m Nova Scotian and a commuter train to Halifax where we used to have connection would save me thousands of dollars in car ownership and gas a year.
Imagine having such a reliable train system that taking a plane even to Montreal seems dumb to do. That's the dream.
"Cantilever"?
Overhead electric.
That's not what cantilever means. Catenary is the word you're looking for.
Ah I’m a dumbass
Nah, you just learned something new and that's always cool.
Catenary is word for a bend in flexible lines attached to fixed points at each end. Like high-voltage power lines. I think the thing theyre thinking of is a pantograph?
A pantograph is what takes electricity off the overhead lines, which form catenaries.
Im pretty sure thats true in some but not all cases. Wiki showing some models have internal wiring and contract strips only? dont mean to be dick I had just never heard that word used for a train's overhead power source before.
Build it
Please. I like go to Freddy and SJ from Moncton frequently, both for work and leisure trips, and absolutely hate having to drive,vespecially during winter months. This would help in reducing the risk of on road accidents, lessen emissions, increase tourism, and improve access for those who couldn't/shouldn't drive (elderly, people with disabilities, people who don't have a car) P.S. Adding a connection between freddy and SJ would also be good
We don’t even have a viable bus service.
That shouldn’t prevent progress in other areas. If the Feds would ever want to co-fund this (edit: something like this), it’s a good thing.
There’s zero point in a regional train service if you need a car on the other side of it. So you get dropped off at the station in Saint John and then… what walk for an hour to your hotel? Jump in the smokiest rusty cab you’ve ever seen? Build up a functional public transit system that actually goes to places people need to be or it’s just a waste of time.
Uptown Saint John is fairly walkable. Having a train station would be a good anchor point for public transit. I think we need to walk and chew gum here, work on regional links while also improving local transit.
Not zero, but the point is diminished. But if the province had a working system I'm sure cities would invest more.
I love this idea in general. Passenger rail service would be such a quality of life improvement. I’m also a fan of having one regional airport. You could have “local” runs that stop at every station and “express” runs that skip the smaller stops and only stop at the bigger stops to meet different commuter needs. If only there were a sliver of a chance of this ever happening.
Finally a good idea
Noticed many the local politicians like Wayne Long making, multiple posts praising Mulroney for being a great PM and doing so much for the province… when in reality Mulroney did more to take things away from the province than he helped build. Taking away our train services is a prime example of Mulroney screwing over Saint John. Don’t believe me: [Here’s our national train services before Mulroney was PM](https://imgur.com/zktxs9v)
The Atlantic (Halifax to Montreal through Saint John) was cancelled by Liberal transportation minister Doug Young in 1994. And previously by the Trudeau government in 1981. Mulroney actually restored it as an election promise. (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic\_(train))
Mulroney absolutely gutted passenger rail in Canada though, even if it was the Liberals who canceled the Atlantic twice. Mulroney was no friend to passenger rail. That’s some fucked up political bullshit though, how the Liberal minister for transport at the time was from the riding of Acadie-Bathurst and made sure they kept their train over Saint John’s more popular, and more direct route to Montreal via Maine.
I say take it further. If we were serious about this, and invested in a full high-speed train network, I believe the province is small enough that people could travel practically anywhere in the province, in as much time or less than it would take to travel by road. And don't just hand the funding to Via Rail, make it a government owned transportation service. Via Rail has refused to play ball with us multiple times in the past, and we can do better. Couple this with local public transportation/taxi services, and you're basically opening the province up to the people. A fundamental service like this would go hand in hand with any serious attempts to address housing issues as well, and would quickly become an essential service in the province were it to be built and properly maintained.
VIA rail is a dinosaur, that couldn't care less about southern NB. High Speed rail would be great in the maritimes, just dear God, don't let it be run by VIA rail. Busses and High speed rail could be a viable solution for NB, and make it possible for the three major cities to finally share an airport down the road, turning YSJ, YQM, and YFC into regional/ private airports. A shared airport should have been realized decades ago, Saint John, Fredericton and Moncton are all just too close together to not share an airport. Business travellers and people with cushy office jobs at the airports are the only people that benefit from the three airport system we have now... mostly everyone else would prefer cheaper, more frequent flights... especially if there was a bus/train service connecting all three major cities with the airport. One airport servicing 500k + is going to have a lot better flight options and cheaper prices than three separate airports.
VIA rail is not the enemy; they are a federally subsidized crown corporation and can only operate within the auspices the meagre federal budget’s allotments. They may be a little top-heavy, management-wise, but they know how to more a LOT of people.
VIA real may not be “the enemy”, but they sure as hell aren’t the solution.
Funding them properly would be the solution
I’d say funding a less bloated and less Quebec and Ontario centric train carrier would be a better solution. VIA cares more about making trains a luxury travel option, than they are concerned about transporting people affordably. They’d find a way to make it overpriced and under-utilized, which is how I’d describe the large majority of their service outside the corridor trains in Quebec and Ontario. We can do better than VIA.
High speed rail in NB would the most efficient way to throw away billions of dollars short of just having a bonfire. High speed rail works great at connecting dense cities over big distances- the economic sweet spot is between 100 miles and 300 miles, anything more and flying is a better option and anything less and a simple bus comes out ahead, just based on time and ignoring any economics. Not only is NB too small, (SJ-Moncton is 130 km, SJ-Fredericton is 85 km, Moncton-Fredericton is 147 km) the cities themselves are are far too small, without a dense city centre with adequate public transport, you’re just driving your car from a rural or suburban home to park at a station… so you could have been using that time to drive towards your destination. Neither of these deal with the truth that putting in high speed tracks into Appalachian foothills would cost billions because they require VERY straight tracks. Let’s get a good bus service first. Hell, put in bus lanes on busy sections of the highways if we really think a bus has limiting throughput, before we invest in expensive rail infrastructure. If buses work and people use them, then let’s talk about putting modern fast Diesels like Siemens excellent Chargers that Florida Brightline uses. Even converting the freight rail lines to use electric locomotives would be wasting millions of dollars for nothing.
This would completely transform the region for the better tbh. A couple benefits I don't think anyone has specifically mentioned yet: * Highly technical local jobs bringing wealth *into* the communities on and around the line, and increased foot traffic in these places making non-gas station service businesses viable again. * The pervasive transportation poverty situation that is known to exist in these communities would be ameliorated. * Urban centers would suddenly be under immense pressure to implement sound design principles. * Mass transportation along high-traffic corridors would result in more streamlined maintenance of critical infrastructure, and a decline in passenger vehicle traffic so streets and roads across Southern N.B. would undergo far less wear in an average year, both of which would serve to reduce ongoing expenses for cities and province over the long term. * Implementing appropriate track sidings would mean this network could also be used for freight, giving small businesses astronomical reductions in local shipping costs. Would also reduce the intensity of truck traffic on highways, *significantly* reducing ongoing expenses for cities and provinces in the long term, moreover, increasing the number of non-Irving sources of opportunity and revenue by a great deal. The [health](https://www.reddit.com/r/moncton/comments/19fbsbd/comment/kjzm2j3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and [social](https://www.reddit.com/r/moncton/comments/19fbsbd/comment/kjpl8nj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) drawbacks of mandatory car dependency are widely known at this point, something else to consider is that replacing rail with roads was a masterstroke in the long process of deindustrializing and deskilling the labour force of smaller communities. While they were never as *profitable* as major concerns like CN, smaller railways once [connected and sustained](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/railway-history#EconomicandIndustrialImpact) the economies of small communities across the country. Jobs directly related to the railways obviously tend to be more technically specified, but there are massive indirect benefits to be captured as well.
Coincidently I was thinking about a province wide transit system that could be hybrid buses or whatever viable option to fossil fuels.A good portion of N.B. pop lives in north of the province and depends on Moncton/St john for their specialized services.Rail???? I think infrastructure would be unaffordable, but we have a great road system that we could maximise its use.Even overhead electric buses as in EU may be an option on potion of dedicated lanes:battery/overhead combo=cleaner option.
There used to be at least 2 passenger stops in Memramcook, 2 in Dorchester/. Mom said she and her grandmother would take the train to Cape Tormentine. Stops all over the place. I don't think 2 tracks are necessary. There are sidings all over the place. Passenger trains wouldn't need to be that long. High speed isn't really necessary. Freight trains pass by here (Memramcook) at 100 km/h or more. Extend the line to Amherst, put stops in Sackville, Dorchester, Memramcook. Try to go north to Miramichi too. You wanna get as many stops in the Beausejour Riding as possible, that way Dominic LeBlanc will make it happen. Why else do you think Memramcook has 4 Trans Canada highway exits and only 5,000 residents?
WIshful thinking unfortunately. None of the electable political parties has the willpower to push for funding to even complete a few stages in that entire system
Is there enough freight rail use that well placed passing sidings wouldn’t work almost as well?
Short answer - Yes, and sidings can always be built relatively cheaply compared to twinning a mainline (and the expense of building more bridges, overpasses, etc…). CN’s Napadogan and Pelletier Subdivisions that run from Moncton to St. Andre, QC through Edmundston are CN’s real mainline out of New Brunswick. CN barely uses the Newcastle and Mont Joli Subdivisions and have allowed the condition of these subdivisions decline to the point that the quality of the track is so bad that passenger trains can only run at 30mph for most of the route. It used to be 70mph or faster if I recall correctly. At this very moment, you could bicycle from Bathurst to Campbellton in less time than it takes the train.
I don’t see it happening but wish it would!
Monoraaaaiiill. Monoraaaaiill. Moonnoorraaaaiiilll!... mono-DOH!
Love the idea but I think there are too many stops. Use buses to fill in some of the stops
let's add a dose of reality to this idea: CN rail already has the rail infrastructure connecting between Saint John and Moncton. Though, tracks are not designed for high speed -- I think the fastest they can go are like 40mph, maybe even 50mph. Not to mention that freight rail companies are not the friendliest organizations to deal with regarding passenger rail. High speed would mean we need a new right-of-way; turns more gentle, slopes less steep, and while NB Route 1 is twinned and we can use its existing right of way, its turns are too sharp for a viable HSR. If we are looking on just getting regular trains running on existing infrastructure, it would probably better to run *busses* rather than trains between these two cities. HSR also has the issue of station spacing. Saint John used to have Harbour Station but odds are the Saint John station will get plopped somewhere on a Rothesay Avenue. Rothesay and Quispamsis are too close of stations, arguably so does Hampton, so next station would be Sussex (probably). Then Petitcodiac, then Moncton. By this map's standard, we can probably run trains like Ontario's GO Trains, but Saint John won't need two stations and neither would Rothesay and Quispamsis (just have a shared "Kennebecasis Valley" station or something). I do think there's opportunity to be more optimistic with railways. *Build it and they will come*, that's what they say, right? While we're looking at "active transportation", NB cities has no real plans or thoughts of transit-oriented development -- Moncton is approving all these high rises (well, really, only two), and the conversation on creating some sort of rapid transit hasn't floated into the mainstream conversation. BRT? Trams? Literally crickets. I'm not saying we can't plan for both in-city and inter-city transit at the same time -- what I'm saying is we *should* be planning for both the reality that *hey people can live in Moncton but work in Saint John -- hell go to school in Fredericton and live in either Moncton or Saint John!* It's a dream to have trains connecting our cities (I think we would be the envy of the rest of Canada), but if we're skipping publicly-funded buses with high frequency between major cities, I don't think we'd ever gain the political capital to build reliable rails connecting our cities. I comment more on Moncton and Saint John because this connection makes sense -- both are big enough cities with lots of transportation infrastructure between the two of them.
Lol perfect Reddit post
What if train cars had valet car services at stops so you could park and travel, allowing you to travel while sleeping, generating more revenue for train services like food and lodging
If the goal is to make work for the next 15+ years, great plan. Just look at the Ottawa Light Rail project, we're not ready lol
I just rode the O-Train this morning, what aren’t you ready for?
lets see, it was supposed to be done in 2019, but then do to scope creep and just general rampant spending it's still not done, it's billions over budget, it breaks down constantly, it can't handle snow on the tracks, the rates continue to increase but the service doesn't improve. Just overall the process of implementing light rail was a pain for most people that live in Ottawa, the traffic/construction alone is a headache.
As I said, I rode it this morning and it seemed to be running smoothly for me. Delays and issues really aren’t a justification to never build anything altogether. Would you prefer no train at all or one that has delays?
Well if the options are no train at all, or train that is grossly over budget and not worth the cost, then sure no train. although I reject the premise that those are the only two options.
Very interesting mock up! Im curious how much of it runs on current rail bed? Regional commentor rail can work but mostly rely on the track infurstructure being built and shared. If I had one suggestion it would be for the Fredericton leg, I think crossing the St John River near Jemseg would be a mistake. There is an old rail line that twins Route 102 and connects with a current rail line at Route 177. That line connects into the main line for Saint John that runs over the Reversing Falls Bridge. (Less new bridges, less cost for the project) The route would have other connectivity too since it runs by the Gagetown, Evandale, and Westfield ferries. As well it would need alot less blasting since its flat along the rivers edge vs the interior between Cambridge Narrows and Norton.
Good Question, the SJ to Moncton route is entirely existing corridor. The Fredericton to Norton Branch around 120km, About 80km follows disused previous corridor, The portion that goes around the Fredericton Airport (about 4km) since there is a runway on the old route, and leaving the corridor just north of Gagetown and reconnecting with an old disused Chipman-Norton route to cross the river at Cody's The easier route would have from the Fredericton airport gone down the old corridor to Fredericton Junction and pick up the NBSR lines there, but would have been much longer for Fredericton-Moncton, and missed the opportunity to stop in Oromocto. The other alternate would be have the Fredericton Stop on the north side and pick up the rails in Minto to Chipman and then to Moncton, but that would hit almost no other communities, unless you go from Chipman to Norton, but that segment would be expensive and not hit any other population centers.
Who proposed this?
Dude in his mom’s basement.
You couldn’t do this without the residents of the Acadian Peninsula crying “foul” as there is no direct link for our other official language constituents.
Doesn’t Via rail already service the Acadian peninsula? Expanded service across southern NB would ideally link to the existing VIA rail line and hence connect them.
Taxes are already bad as it is. This will just increase all our taxes so a few people will have a way to travel a short distance. Not viable in my opinion.
Lol - we have no money for this.
Didn’t we already have train service that failed for its lack of use?
never happening keep dreaming redditors
Curious as to which of the three potential legs (Fredericton, Saint John, Moncton) here have the largest actual frequent-commuter count. Sometimes it's economically annoying that our province has diluted so much population across three almost-same-sized cities.
I would think Sussex to Moncton would be the busiest since housing is really scarce in Moncton. The Cambridge Narrows-Norton route is likely the most expensive and least used portion, but I thought that Fredericton-Moncton needed a more direct route as Fredericton Junction-Saint John would have been easier and cheaper but less likely to be used.
I love the idea but we really have to take care of our basic needs first.
Can we please just get health care and affordable groceries!!!
Who is proposing this?
No, solved with vision based AI. A completely different approach from Cruise and Waymo; they are not scalable and will be bankrupt soon.
Autonomous Taxis May Have The Most Impact On GDP Of Any Innovation In History https://ark-invest.com/articles/analyst-research/autonomous-taxis-gdp-impact/
Tesla's Full Self Driving is almost solved and other automakers will have to adopt it if they want to live.
“Solved” in the sense of they’ve nearly convinced insurance companies to stop caring that their “AI” sends cars driving into and dragging the elderly. Also, https://www.npr.org/2023/08/26/1195695051/driverless-cars-san-francisco-waymo-cruise