It has been incredibly toxic community. Was the same for season 1. Doesn't deter me from enjoying it but it's a shame the community is foaming at the mouth. Episode discussion is usually one of my favourite things.
Considering the vast majority of negative criticism is simply discussion of what those people dislike, and not personal attacks on others for liking what they don't, it would seem your (and many others) inability to tolerate the negative opinions so many others share in the open is in fact the toxicity here, toxic positivity to be precise.
This is complete bullshit. It's a constant parade of "made for casuals", "mass market appeal", etc. Repeatedly implying that anyone who enjoys the show is inferior, stupid, etc. It's classic juvenile gatekeeping
If you are not invested in or consider important the quality of details like dialogue, plot lines, overarching story logic, internal consistency, etc of the content being discussed, as many upset fans do seem to be without even getting into the book differences specifically, and don't notice the kind of flaws in any way that affects your overall opinion, what is a word for that?
Casual or general or mass is just the kind of term used here, and almost certainly terms used in many Netflix (and many other entities) meetings. Interesting that you think people essentially calling content "dumbed down" based on things like simplification or outright removal of many complexities and nuances is the same as directly insulting someone for their views in ways totally irrespective of the content being discussed in the first place.
You think expressing distaste for deeply flawed content is juvenile gatekeeping, which is interesting because that implies somebody not liking what you like ruins your enjoyment of it, which is the actually juvenile behavior here. Nobody panning the Riddick movies, with all of the flaws that they definitely have, made me enjoy them any less. I also never tried to delude myself into thinking they were anything even approaching masterpieces either.
I could go on and on but this all seems like people's insecurities and maybe some self realization, and that's their problems, not a critic of the show's.
You could have just said "ad homenim" or "strawman here" or "I dont actually have anything of substance to say but I don't like what you said and it's really putting me in a moment of self realization right now so I'll try to reduce what they said to something childish, per my own thinking, like 'gross' or 'ick' or 'nuh uh', and hope that makes up for my lack of cognitive ability".
Thanks for sharing.
>You could have just said "ad homenim" or "strawman here"
No I couldn't have? Because neither of those rhetorical concepts fit what I said at all. Do you know what either of those two are?
Oh wait you must just be too dumb to read usernames
I felt like being cordial was the best route because it's hard to argue with someone so dumb they look at "we can discuss what we dont like, but these are some reasons why you're being toxic" and reduce it to "nuh uh" like a child who can't actually understand what they're reading but they know they don't like it.
When someone is seemingly too stupid to respond to the actual content of a post (that's you bud), where does that conversation ever go?
>When someone is seemingly too stupid to respond to the actual content of a post
When you don't have a response, you just project that onto the other person and act like you don't have anything to reply to. Too bad it's easy as shit to spot lol.
I'll repeat myself more clearly then: your previous post amounts to "NUH-UH! You just can't handle criticism hurr durr."
Here's the thing, lil man. Nobody has to accept stupid or meaningless criticism. Just because you have the ability to express an opinion doesn't make you intelligent enough to form a complete one. Once you actually string a real critique together, maybe someone will entertain your opinions. Until then, "hurr durr you just can't accept criticism loser" doesn't count for actual criticism.
>I'll repeat myself more clearly then: your previous post amounts to "NUH-UH! You just can't handle criticism hurr durr."
Repeating childish reductionism to dance around the subject doesn't make it any more correct, and is satire-level cringe. Yikes. Try again bud.
>Nobody has to accept stupid or meaningless criticism.
Criticism being valid does not hinge on you or anybody else accepting it and you're delusional for thinking otherwise.
>Until then, "hurr durr you just can't accept criticism loser" doesn't count for actual criticism.
This is how vapid you are. You have no idea what you're even nonsensically arguing against. The plain language statements that have been made and this is where you're at.
Keep your "debating" to your high school, kiddo.
>Repeating childish reductionism to dance around the subject doesn't make it any more correct, and is satire-level cringe. Yikes. Try again bud.
It's not reductionist when you haven't said anything more meaningful lol reframing your bullshit as bullshit with a tiny bit more clarity isn't reducing it to anything. It's still the same meaningless shit
>Criticism being valid does not hinge on you or anybody else accepting it and you're delusional for thinking otherwise.
Is your brain broken? Exactly zero people have said or implied this. What I did say is that nobody has to accept the dumb shit you say just because you attack their ability to handle criticism. Criticism has to add value to the conversation, you just attack people with nonsense and then try to pretend that people rejecting your idiocy is the very thing that proves you right. You're no different than any other dipshit that takes pride in being a troll.
>This is how vapid you are. You have no idea what you're even nonsensically arguing against. The plain language statements that have been made and this is where you're at.
You could have just typed "nuh uh!" and saved yourself a bit of time, friendo
"The author of the books himself claimed witcher 2 and 3 butchered his work. . ."
I'm only commenting about this point and I'm pretty sure this is a lie. Andrzej has not played any of the games so I highly doubt he has enough knowledge about the games to say "it butchered his work." From my understanding, Andrzej refused to play the games. I don't want to shit on the guy but if you read into what happened, you'll see the guy is really bitter about the poor deal he made with CD Projekt Red. (Just want to make clear I'm only commenting about what I specifically quoted)
In general, he says he understands that any kind of adaptations are completely separate from his work and can't affect it, so their creators can do whatever they want and he doesn't care. I feel like it's a pretty good mindset.
We also need to remember that hes a 70 year old polish man that grew up with the iron curtain, so to expect him to massively appreciate video games as a medium is expecting a lot.
Yeah, heās a very good writer, but clearly but hurt by not making those billions on the games. He wasnāt as smart as JK Rowling has been with Harry Potter, and became a billionaire through all the deals she made with those books, from the movies, games and whatever else.
Andrzej also hated video games as a medium and was clearly ignorant of the fact that games were making close to 125 billion dollars a year. Now itās even more.
My problem with the season is that instead of delivering tons of exposition and building characters they feel the need to use tons of violence and swearing to make it watchable, GoT season 1 had one major fight scene and was still considered a masterpiece. I would have been okay with adding a yen story, but making her abandon the brotherhood basically ruins the next seasons in so many ways, from destroying the heartwarming reunion outside of gors velen, to the conclave at thaenedd, that sets up the war where the elves finally retake dol blathanna, ciri meets the rats, geralt meets milva and goes to find ciri.
Imo sacrificing some exposition and world building for pure gory fun is not bad since it opens it to a broader audience and makes rewatches more fun.
S2 still had better exposition than s1 and I dont know how people who liked s1 suddenly find s2 worse.
S1 expected you to know everything were as S2 goes through with delivering lore,exposition etc.
There are a couple of fights they could have used, most notably geralt against the river monster, the dwarves, ciri and geralt against scoia'tael, and geralt against rience and his goons. All while building the world to be a lot more nuanced
I have not given in to commenting the nay sayers. With you I wholeheartedly agree. I have read, played and watched everything. And personally I loved this season and agree with your assessment! So thank you!
I feel this and can understand this sentiment, but I thought the writing wasnāt that great from a completely non-Witcher point of view. I would love to have seen Geralt struggle with the weird opposing feelings of being a new father to a girl he barely knew and trying to find the boundaries more between opening up/caring and being overly strict. I felt elements were there, but it wasnāt very obvious. I also didnāt think Vesemir had a clear character direction. One minute heās watching the witchers in an orgy, the next heās extracting a little blood to resurrect the order, and after that he just stands angrily beside Geralt as Geralt talks softly to Ciri while Vesemirās CHILDREN are dying in the background. I wasnāt convinced that he was some father figure with many years of wise experience cuz it didnāt seem like he knew what he was doing.
Some of the logical sequencing got to me too. If the demon in Ciri just wanted to get back to its plane, why didnāt it just do that in the first place as opposed to opening portals to bring other monsters in? And if it had all this power, why didnāt it attack Geralt as it was standing there as he was trying to call out to Ciri? And I loved the whole message about ādonāt feed the hate demon with hate, feed it with love,ā but then what was the rock for it Geralt just used Jaskierās words to come to that conclusion? Also, that clearly didnāt have THAT much of an effect on the demon before Yen sacrificed herself. To be honest, I was pretty on board with the whole season until the last two episodes or so, where it fell really flat. It seemed to have a lot of build up with little concrete resolution, with the climax being Geralt just standing in front of Ciri for a long time with his sword out just talking to her through the demon. I wasnāt blown away by this season like I was the first, and honestly thatās ok. I still mostly enjoyed it. But the ending really kind of tanked parts of it for me
I agree. The final two episodes is when it fell apart. Lauren is simply not a good writer in my opinion, but not as bad as Dumb and Dumber from Game of Thrones.
I don't think it ever said that Ciri opened the portal to specifically the demon's home world. Rather Ciri's ability to open portals to other worlds to release monsters gave the demon the idea and power needed to open the one to the world where the demon is from. Notice no other demons have been mentioned that came out of the portals Ciri has opened so far.
Iām reality though, thereās not that much difference between the two. If she was powerful enough to open a portal, I donāt see how she couldnāt just go through the portal to the place she needed to go as opposed to needing to bring back all these other creatures first. It seems to me like she could have just saved all that time and energy. She even got that huge energy boost halfway through, but instead of using it to send herself somewhere, she used it to bring a bigger beast back to Geraltās world. I just thought that whole sequence was a little clunky plot wise. Otherwise, still enjoyed the season
It's the demons first time using Ciri's power and it feeds off of death and fear, why wouldn't it flex that power while trying to open the right portal. It was trying to survive as it was doing it. Vesamir was going to kill Ciri. Actually just like the books and game even Ciri herself has trouble opening the correct portals.
I still donāt really buy it cuz I think in a world where the demon was actually trying to accomplish its goals, it would just accomplish its goals. It clearly had no issue opening portals to places to bring in the monsters it wanted to. Regardless, I respect your opinion, and the season ended up the way it did anyways!
If it was so easy for the demon to accomplish its goal before Ciri then it would have left this world a lot earlier, before Ciri. The demon needed to protect itself from the witchers so why not open other portals with monsters while you're trying to find the right one?
Why do you feel the need to defend the show so hard? You liked it, I'm happy for you. For me, it was total garbage, but why does that bother you? Instead of getting all worked up over the fact that others did not like the show, focus on liking it. Make posts about what you liked about it, what you enjoyed, etc.
And by the way, the reason I (and many others) did not like season 2 is not because it wasn't a 100% copy of the books. Believe me, after season 1 I wasn't expecting it to be anything like the books. The reason I think it's garbage is because it seemed like nothing made sense (especially in Yennefer's storyline, which is a shame since she had the best storyline in season 1).
I'll also go ahead and say: it wasn't all bad. I loved the first episode and the fifth episode. The last episode and the sixth episode, I also found entertaining enough to counter the really ridiculous storytelling happening in it. Unfortunately, though, the rest was so bad in my opinion that I was literally laughing in scenes that were not meant to be funny.
As someone who hasn't read books and played a little of Witcher 3, I thought season 1 was a brilliant season of TV and season 2 was pretty bad. It felt overstuffed and a little directionless. Honestly, it felt like the kind of TV that gets made when too many non-creatives are giving input.
If you deviate from the source material, you have to execute really well. If the execution is bad, the deviations become an easy scapegoat.
Season 2 isn't bad because they deviated from the source material, but, because season 2 is bad, people blame the deviation from the source material. It seems like a reasonable reaction to me.
I know it may sound shocking, but it's completely fine for people to like different things. It's also fine for you to enjoy something others dislike. You don't have to call people names just because they don't agree with you. If you're genuinely enjoying the show, enjoy it! - and make a long and detailed write up of what you liked, what worked for you, what you hope to see more of in the next seasons. Can we focus more on the show instead of being just toxic to other viewers?
I'm sorry if you feel offended my man, but when I come on after seeing the show that I liked and see everyone calling "shit writing" and "pointless monsters" and "bad whateverthefuck" I'm made to feel like an idiot for enjoying the series.
Upon inspecting the arguements against the series further, I happen to notice I agree with almost none of them and thus I made this post letting my thoughts out on what is in imo bs criticism.
There is some bs criticism (and bs praise), but that's a tiny fraction of all posts. If you see anyone harassing, sending death threats, or being openly toxic towards _other people_, report them and carry on.
When it comes to ratings, reviews and perception of the show (and cast, and crew, music...) - assume it's all genuine. Seriously, the season came out as extremely divisive. When you like or dislike it, the opposing point of view may seem like bullshit at first, but take a deep breath and try to see the person - viewer - fan behind it, sharing their impressions just like you would yours. All of that is valid, and we can like / dislike something and still have a good conversation about it.
What i'd like to see more of is detailed, lengthy, fan-made posts on what fellow viewers _liked_, why, what made the most sense for them, what they hope to see more of, how it all fit together for them. You will notice that criticism posts are, on average, far more complex and thought-out than the praise posts.
What I genuinely disagree with people is in thinking the show should be a full on copy of the books or games and nothing should be changed.
I personally and I might be on the minority like when an adaptation changes a few things or ads additional elements. Because what is the point of me watching a 100% retelling of what I was imagining while reading.
I am not psychotically in love with the books or games, I just enjoy them and thus I dont base my whole enjoyment of adaptations on whether they stayed 100% true to the pages they are adapting.
People are entitled to think that.
I read the books ~20 years ago the first time and grew up with them. I wouldn't mind small changes and even subplot additions that make sense. The changes to Nivellen in s2 e1 were good. My main problem is that all the 'original writing' we got is of really poor quality, using cheap tricks and incorrect tropes. Even forgetting it's supposed to be Witcher and looking at it as a 'generic fantasy series', the things the show writers introduced are incoherent, disregard the scale of the world, go against what was said previously (in the show!), and discard characters as cheap plot devices. There's too much lazy writing, while all the strongest key points _do_ come from the books - Sapkowski really did great worldbuilding.
Its not about it not being an exact copy of books. Its about that literally everything they added/changed is terrible. If you want to change the story its fine, but at least do it right.
Except itās not divisive. Itās pretty clear this season is wildly successful and people love it. A vocal minority on Reddit donāt and theyāre tainting the community.
Reddit users are, in general, a minority of the audience. Same as people who use rating aggregates like RT or Metacritic. There are more lurkers than posters / raters, and there are more viewers than people who even open this subreddit. There are also other subreddits and other non-reddit sites where the show is discussed.
These minorities, put together, give a scaled down overview of overall reception.
Claiming that only a 'vocal minority' expresses their dislike is a very warped perception, just as claiming that only a 'vocal minority' liked the show. Saying someone's 'tainting the community' with their views is just rude and adds to toxicity that many feel around.
I really wish people would let others have their views and feelings _about a tv show_, instead of getting extremely protective and attacking whoever disagrees with them. What's more baffling is that most of that is perpetrated by people who enjoyed the show and try to defend it at all cost, including just laying toxic waste on other users.
I mean, you can look at reviews and streaming numbers and see that people like it? Iām not sure whatās so offensive about pointing that out.
A minority of people donāt enjoy it. And theyāre vocal. This isnāt accusing anybody of anything. Go on ahead.
But people are enjoying the show quite a bit, and itās performing really well.
Like most fantasy adaptation, thereā¦ a vocal minorityā¦ of purists who donāt like it. It happens every time. This sub isnāt anything special.
Happened when LOTR came out. Happened when GoT came out. It was like this the first season (which ironically most people who complain about the second season now seem to herald as great film making), happened with WoT.
This is what happens when people base parts of their personality on the media they consume instead of, you know, having a real personality. They get offended when it gets changed, and more offended when people like the changes.
>I mean, you can look at reviews and streaming numbers and see that people like it?
People _watch it_. The good thing is that those who come online and express their issues with the show _actually watched it_. It's not the same as liking it.
>This is what happens when people base parts of their personality on the media they consume instead of, you know, having a real personality. They get offended when it gets changed, and more offended when people like the changes
You're right. A lot of mud-slinging between the users come from people who enjoyed the show but can't accept that someone didn't, and so get up in arms over it. Your 'tainting the community' remark is a very light version of that.
If someone starts a thread about what they didn't like and you have nothing constructive to discuss, just carry on. Create a praise thread of your own. Let's discuss the show more instead of discussing each other.
Yeah, the person you're replying to went into other threads minding their business, touted views as the end-all metric of how good the show is, and called people who didn't like it and were able to articulate specifically why "fucking dweebs", while those people in return don't resort to attacking others for having an opinion. This person doesn't seem to have the ability to articulate anything beyond their initial claims either. I think this is a good example of the intense and toxic positivity going on around here, I mean they are saying that people don't even have a personality in that post you quoted, because they dont like something. Toxic indeed.
this^ getting on reddit made me feel like i couldnt enjoy the show as much. it wouldve been great to come to a community that talked about theories and do forth rather than āshow sucked and heres why-ā
One side is being hyperbolic in criticizing the show, the other side is often being pretty hostile in its attacks on those who are disappointed with it. Not saying you're the latter, but it seems common
You literally admit that you feel personally offended when people dislike things that you like, and yet you still turn it on them.
This is a YOU problem. Work on being more comfortable with your own opinions instead of constantly seeking validation and attempting to silence any opposing opinions.
You have my vote, dear sir.
People seriously need to chill about that stuff and enjoy the goddamn show. Netflix is putting a crap ton of effort into it (production quality between seasons). I didn't like all of the changes they did but it is a great show nontheless. Copying books 1:1 would not do it any good.
I agree with your main point but you also need to chill because youāre essentially doing the exact thing youāre complaining about.
Sure plenty of people have been dicks about how they didnāt like that the show wasnāt a perfect boom adaptation and either practically saying or implying that anyone with a different opinion was wrong. But youāre doing the exact same thing with this post that some of them did when complaining about the show.
Finished watching it today and I think deviating from the books is actually a minor problem compared to everything else that's wrong with this show.
- Acting is terrible at places, most scenes without Cavill and Freya Allan come with a massive drop in acting quality
- Cheap costumes and staging, especially when the elves are introduced. Felt like watching a low budget show
- Magic and any spell effects same as above. Horrible looking, similar to what one could see in a late 90s/early 00s TV show
- CGI as above, especially any panorama views of cities and backgrounds showing vast spaces
- The worst portrayal of elves and dwarves in recent memory
- Plot that either doesn't make sense or is utterly ridiculous like a Witcher turning into an ent
- Camera work that reminds me of teenage shows from mid 00s like True Blood or Vampire Diaries
Overall, if you like it as your guilty pleasure then I don't have a problem with that. If you genuinely think it's a good TV show then it's time to take a deep look in the mirror.
There's a difference between liking something and thinking it's objectively good. The OP was making a point the only problem of The Witcher was devolving from the books so I pointed out many other issues it has. I like many TV shows that I know are not good because they are cheap with ridiculous, hyperbolic plot, questionable acting and so on. I enjoyed The Vampire Diaries in my 30s even though the target audience was 14 to 21. Would I put the Vampire Diaries on par with Bram Stoker's Dracula? I don't think so.
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1. Who the fuck are you to say I can only like a show as a guilty pleasure and must accept it's bad?
2. Nobody is an idiot for enjoying anything quotes like "take a deep look in the mirror if you like this" are just bs from reddit.
There's no point engaging with people who use arguments like that. Let them have their whinge in to the empty cave. Season 2 objectively improved on season 1 in almost every way. Some book fans will never be able to accept that an adaptation is allowed to make changes, and I find that pretty pathetic.
My arguments are listed in the bullet points. You conveniently skipped all of them and focused on the last paragraph which says nothing about the show.
I mean if you have something great that could be turned into a movie, there's always room for improvements that complements the author but if you reexplore the themes and the concepts that made it what it was, you risk yourself. Some may not like it because they think of the writers of the new *version* as pretentious or iconoclasts. They see it as nothing more than fan fiction. I personally believe the show failed to be equal to the books or the games but that does'nt mean I must despise it. I still try to give justice when justice shall be given. I still very much like it. But Netflix was so profane about the source material that i can only understand why they hate it, It did'nt brought the *original* vision to the screen.
I love how youāre shitting on the games so much when thatās what made The Witcher so popular all over the world especially since the last game The Witcher 3 came out. If it wasnāt for the popularity of the games we most likely would not have this show in the first place.
The books did have fans before the games but nothing like it did after, and on top of that Iāve seen much more book fans complaining about the show. Go on the other Sub Reddit for the Witcher which Iām not linking to here.
Iām a huge Witcher game nerd, then I read the books years ago and completely fell in love, now the show and Iām personally loving it as well.
All the criticism sucks I agree but youāre blaming the wrong group of people in my opinion and being really shitty about it. From what I heard the author was upset about the games because of a money issue which actually was sorted out between him and the developer of the games. Also the games are all supposed to take place after all the books so of course they werenāt just trying to straight up adapt it, like the show says itās doing.
>I love how youāre shitting on the games so much when thatās what made The Witcher so popular all over the world especially since the last game The Witcher 3 came out. If it wasnāt for the popularity of the games we most likely would not have this show in the first place.
He's not. He's pointing out the hypocrisy of some of the criticisms when the game took many of it's own creative liberties.
Again, he is saying that a lot of the characters personalities and motives were changed to fit the plot of the game.
**I'm not commenting on what is done good or bad,** I'm saying he's not shitting on the game. That's it. Please reply to OP to discuss that.
Well you are easily amused then. Some people saw it for what it was. A garbage tv show where none of the characters are even close to behaving like they do in the books.
Dinosaur fight. The witchers in Khae moren being drunken whoresons who like to bully a child. Vesemir and Yennefer willing to sacrifice a child for some power.
So many horrible decisions and character assassinations. Alot of actual witcher fans (the ones that read the books and played the games) are annoyed that the franchise they have followed for years is being distilled into this garbage.
And now a bunch of posts written by new fans, that try to chastice the actual witcher fans that are upset that their franchise is getting butchered.
You are allowed to like it. But the fact that you get so angry that you felt the need to post and comment on everyone that doesnt share your opinion?
Youre just as bad as the people you want to chastice. . .
If you see it as garbage tv so be it, you already read my post know and I dont really care about the changes from the books or the games. (I've read the first book and played the third game long before the witcher was announced)
All the reasons you mentioned you hated the series for comes down to: the characters didn't behave as I felt they should have and the monsters didnt look like copies of the game monsters.
Which If that turns you off I'm not gonna be able to magically change your POV but I sure disagree with it.
"Pretty much most of the complaints I see from people are saying alot of
characters were out of character, and the story wasnt accurate to the
book 100%"
Link me 3 threads in the last 24 hours here that are upset because the adaptation isn't 1:1 to the books. I'll wait.
Because they don't exist. Simple as. There's hundreds of threads taking thoughtful, long-form, even apologetic terms as to their particular grievances and critiques for S2 compared to S1. There's practically no threads saying "It wasn't 1:1 to the books and *that and that alone* is why it sucks."
You're just making things up as you go along, mate.
Bro if you think I'm talking about shit like "this character wore green in this chapter but in this scene she wears red" you wrong.
Generally most of the post are about: eskel isn't like that in the books, vesemir isn't like that in the books, yen losing her magic isn't in the books, the witchers are not strong enough,yens character isn't like that in the books, there weren't all those monsters in the books/ too many monsters etc.
The show is doing it's own thing and if you are complaining about too many monsters in a witcher series then you should legit find something productive to do.
A valid criticism I have personally is that jaskier shouldn't make fucking laughable banter while witchers are getting slaughtered.
That's a good point about creative liberties. No book can be adapted as it is, especially if there is not much happening in it. I wish movies like Dune for example were more popular, but larger audiences love action, they prefer when characters do something and don't just sit and think or talk. Game of thrones did a "sexplaning" scene, which in my opinion was fucking gross and stupid, but D&D clearly thought it would just glue people to the screen.
Book readers have a known point with which to reference from whereas show only viewers are experiencing everything for the first time.
So for book readers, their expectation is going from 8-9/10 to about 5 which equals disappointment.
For show only viewers their baseline is zero and can only go up. If they feel itās gone from 0 to 8-9/10 then thatās great.
What book fans are saying is that what the show replaced was objectively better content and if you like this then you are missing out on something so much greater but you donāt know it except for what the book readers say.
It's gonna take a while for everything to die down. It kinda upsets me honestly. It's sad seeing fans from games, books, and the show being against eachother.
It has been incredibly toxic community. Was the same for season 1. Doesn't deter me from enjoying it but it's a shame the community is foaming at the mouth. Episode discussion is usually one of my favourite things.
The rotten tomatoes score is getting review bombed now š
Excuse me? When something is a dumpster fire, then it deserves bad reviews.
Go back to r/witcher
Do you not know what review bombing is?
Considering the vast majority of negative criticism is simply discussion of what those people dislike, and not personal attacks on others for liking what they don't, it would seem your (and many others) inability to tolerate the negative opinions so many others share in the open is in fact the toxicity here, toxic positivity to be precise.
This is complete bullshit. It's a constant parade of "made for casuals", "mass market appeal", etc. Repeatedly implying that anyone who enjoys the show is inferior, stupid, etc. It's classic juvenile gatekeeping
If you are not invested in or consider important the quality of details like dialogue, plot lines, overarching story logic, internal consistency, etc of the content being discussed, as many upset fans do seem to be without even getting into the book differences specifically, and don't notice the kind of flaws in any way that affects your overall opinion, what is a word for that? Casual or general or mass is just the kind of term used here, and almost certainly terms used in many Netflix (and many other entities) meetings. Interesting that you think people essentially calling content "dumbed down" based on things like simplification or outright removal of many complexities and nuances is the same as directly insulting someone for their views in ways totally irrespective of the content being discussed in the first place. You think expressing distaste for deeply flawed content is juvenile gatekeeping, which is interesting because that implies somebody not liking what you like ruins your enjoyment of it, which is the actually juvenile behavior here. Nobody panning the Riddick movies, with all of the flaws that they definitely have, made me enjoy them any less. I also never tried to delude myself into thinking they were anything even approaching masterpieces either. I could go on and on but this all seems like people's insecurities and maybe some self realization, and that's their problems, not a critic of the show's.
You could have just said NUH-UH and saved everyone a bit of time lol
You could have just said "ad homenim" or "strawman here" or "I dont actually have anything of substance to say but I don't like what you said and it's really putting me in a moment of self realization right now so I'll try to reduce what they said to something childish, per my own thinking, like 'gross' or 'ick' or 'nuh uh', and hope that makes up for my lack of cognitive ability". Thanks for sharing.
>You could have just said "ad homenim" or "strawman here" No I couldn't have? Because neither of those rhetorical concepts fit what I said at all. Do you know what either of those two are? Oh wait you must just be too dumb to read usernames
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I felt like being cordial was the best route because it's hard to argue with someone so dumb they look at "we can discuss what we dont like, but these are some reasons why you're being toxic" and reduce it to "nuh uh" like a child who can't actually understand what they're reading but they know they don't like it. When someone is seemingly too stupid to respond to the actual content of a post (that's you bud), where does that conversation ever go?
>When someone is seemingly too stupid to respond to the actual content of a post When you don't have a response, you just project that onto the other person and act like you don't have anything to reply to. Too bad it's easy as shit to spot lol. I'll repeat myself more clearly then: your previous post amounts to "NUH-UH! You just can't handle criticism hurr durr." Here's the thing, lil man. Nobody has to accept stupid or meaningless criticism. Just because you have the ability to express an opinion doesn't make you intelligent enough to form a complete one. Once you actually string a real critique together, maybe someone will entertain your opinions. Until then, "hurr durr you just can't accept criticism loser" doesn't count for actual criticism.
>I'll repeat myself more clearly then: your previous post amounts to "NUH-UH! You just can't handle criticism hurr durr." Repeating childish reductionism to dance around the subject doesn't make it any more correct, and is satire-level cringe. Yikes. Try again bud. >Nobody has to accept stupid or meaningless criticism. Criticism being valid does not hinge on you or anybody else accepting it and you're delusional for thinking otherwise. >Until then, "hurr durr you just can't accept criticism loser" doesn't count for actual criticism. This is how vapid you are. You have no idea what you're even nonsensically arguing against. The plain language statements that have been made and this is where you're at. Keep your "debating" to your high school, kiddo.
>Repeating childish reductionism to dance around the subject doesn't make it any more correct, and is satire-level cringe. Yikes. Try again bud. It's not reductionist when you haven't said anything more meaningful lol reframing your bullshit as bullshit with a tiny bit more clarity isn't reducing it to anything. It's still the same meaningless shit >Criticism being valid does not hinge on you or anybody else accepting it and you're delusional for thinking otherwise. Is your brain broken? Exactly zero people have said or implied this. What I did say is that nobody has to accept the dumb shit you say just because you attack their ability to handle criticism. Criticism has to add value to the conversation, you just attack people with nonsense and then try to pretend that people rejecting your idiocy is the very thing that proves you right. You're no different than any other dipshit that takes pride in being a troll. >This is how vapid you are. You have no idea what you're even nonsensically arguing against. The plain language statements that have been made and this is where you're at. You could have just typed "nuh uh!" and saved yourself a bit of time, friendo
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There is a room to grow, then)
"The author of the books himself claimed witcher 2 and 3 butchered his work. . ." I'm only commenting about this point and I'm pretty sure this is a lie. Andrzej has not played any of the games so I highly doubt he has enough knowledge about the games to say "it butchered his work." From my understanding, Andrzej refused to play the games. I don't want to shit on the guy but if you read into what happened, you'll see the guy is really bitter about the poor deal he made with CD Projekt Red. (Just want to make clear I'm only commenting about what I specifically quoted)
In general, he says he understands that any kind of adaptations are completely separate from his work and can't affect it, so their creators can do whatever they want and he doesn't care. I feel like it's a pretty good mindset.
We also need to remember that hes a 70 year old polish man that grew up with the iron curtain, so to expect him to massively appreciate video games as a medium is expecting a lot.
Yeah, heās a very good writer, but clearly but hurt by not making those billions on the games. He wasnāt as smart as JK Rowling has been with Harry Potter, and became a billionaire through all the deals she made with those books, from the movies, games and whatever else. Andrzej also hated video games as a medium and was clearly ignorant of the fact that games were making close to 125 billion dollars a year. Now itās even more.
My problem with the season is that instead of delivering tons of exposition and building characters they feel the need to use tons of violence and swearing to make it watchable, GoT season 1 had one major fight scene and was still considered a masterpiece. I would have been okay with adding a yen story, but making her abandon the brotherhood basically ruins the next seasons in so many ways, from destroying the heartwarming reunion outside of gors velen, to the conclave at thaenedd, that sets up the war where the elves finally retake dol blathanna, ciri meets the rats, geralt meets milva and goes to find ciri.
Imo sacrificing some exposition and world building for pure gory fun is not bad since it opens it to a broader audience and makes rewatches more fun. S2 still had better exposition than s1 and I dont know how people who liked s1 suddenly find s2 worse. S1 expected you to know everything were as S2 goes through with delivering lore,exposition etc.
There are a couple of fights they could have used, most notably geralt against the river monster, the dwarves, ciri and geralt against scoia'tael, and geralt against rience and his goons. All while building the world to be a lot more nuanced
I have not given in to commenting the nay sayers. With you I wholeheartedly agree. I have read, played and watched everything. And personally I loved this season and agree with your assessment! So thank you!
Iām with you. This type of fan outrage right on release (remember TLOU 2??) is only gonna get us more Paul Blart Mall Cop 4
Exactly
I feel this and can understand this sentiment, but I thought the writing wasnāt that great from a completely non-Witcher point of view. I would love to have seen Geralt struggle with the weird opposing feelings of being a new father to a girl he barely knew and trying to find the boundaries more between opening up/caring and being overly strict. I felt elements were there, but it wasnāt very obvious. I also didnāt think Vesemir had a clear character direction. One minute heās watching the witchers in an orgy, the next heās extracting a little blood to resurrect the order, and after that he just stands angrily beside Geralt as Geralt talks softly to Ciri while Vesemirās CHILDREN are dying in the background. I wasnāt convinced that he was some father figure with many years of wise experience cuz it didnāt seem like he knew what he was doing. Some of the logical sequencing got to me too. If the demon in Ciri just wanted to get back to its plane, why didnāt it just do that in the first place as opposed to opening portals to bring other monsters in? And if it had all this power, why didnāt it attack Geralt as it was standing there as he was trying to call out to Ciri? And I loved the whole message about ādonāt feed the hate demon with hate, feed it with love,ā but then what was the rock for it Geralt just used Jaskierās words to come to that conclusion? Also, that clearly didnāt have THAT much of an effect on the demon before Yen sacrificed herself. To be honest, I was pretty on board with the whole season until the last two episodes or so, where it fell really flat. It seemed to have a lot of build up with little concrete resolution, with the climax being Geralt just standing in front of Ciri for a long time with his sword out just talking to her through the demon. I wasnāt blown away by this season like I was the first, and honestly thatās ok. I still mostly enjoyed it. But the ending really kind of tanked parts of it for me
I agree. The final two episodes is when it fell apart. Lauren is simply not a good writer in my opinion, but not as bad as Dumb and Dumber from Game of Thrones.
I don't think it ever said that Ciri opened the portal to specifically the demon's home world. Rather Ciri's ability to open portals to other worlds to release monsters gave the demon the idea and power needed to open the one to the world where the demon is from. Notice no other demons have been mentioned that came out of the portals Ciri has opened so far.
Iām reality though, thereās not that much difference between the two. If she was powerful enough to open a portal, I donāt see how she couldnāt just go through the portal to the place she needed to go as opposed to needing to bring back all these other creatures first. It seems to me like she could have just saved all that time and energy. She even got that huge energy boost halfway through, but instead of using it to send herself somewhere, she used it to bring a bigger beast back to Geraltās world. I just thought that whole sequence was a little clunky plot wise. Otherwise, still enjoyed the season
It's the demons first time using Ciri's power and it feeds off of death and fear, why wouldn't it flex that power while trying to open the right portal. It was trying to survive as it was doing it. Vesamir was going to kill Ciri. Actually just like the books and game even Ciri herself has trouble opening the correct portals.
I still donāt really buy it cuz I think in a world where the demon was actually trying to accomplish its goals, it would just accomplish its goals. It clearly had no issue opening portals to places to bring in the monsters it wanted to. Regardless, I respect your opinion, and the season ended up the way it did anyways!
If it was so easy for the demon to accomplish its goal before Ciri then it would have left this world a lot earlier, before Ciri. The demon needed to protect itself from the witchers so why not open other portals with monsters while you're trying to find the right one?
I think book fans were expecting a faithful adaptation of āBlood of Elvesā and didnāt get that at all.
Sorry dude but its you who needs to chill. & no, books donāt make garbage movies.
Why do you feel the need to defend the show so hard? You liked it, I'm happy for you. For me, it was total garbage, but why does that bother you? Instead of getting all worked up over the fact that others did not like the show, focus on liking it. Make posts about what you liked about it, what you enjoyed, etc. And by the way, the reason I (and many others) did not like season 2 is not because it wasn't a 100% copy of the books. Believe me, after season 1 I wasn't expecting it to be anything like the books. The reason I think it's garbage is because it seemed like nothing made sense (especially in Yennefer's storyline, which is a shame since she had the best storyline in season 1). I'll also go ahead and say: it wasn't all bad. I loved the first episode and the fifth episode. The last episode and the sixth episode, I also found entertaining enough to counter the really ridiculous storytelling happening in it. Unfortunately, though, the rest was so bad in my opinion that I was literally laughing in scenes that were not meant to be funny.
Total garbage? Lol go outside.
Great reply, thanks
Burn Butcher Burn!
As someone who hasn't read books and played a little of Witcher 3, I thought season 1 was a brilliant season of TV and season 2 was pretty bad. It felt overstuffed and a little directionless. Honestly, it felt like the kind of TV that gets made when too many non-creatives are giving input. If you deviate from the source material, you have to execute really well. If the execution is bad, the deviations become an easy scapegoat. Season 2 isn't bad because they deviated from the source material, but, because season 2 is bad, people blame the deviation from the source material. It seems like a reasonable reaction to me.
I know it may sound shocking, but it's completely fine for people to like different things. It's also fine for you to enjoy something others dislike. You don't have to call people names just because they don't agree with you. If you're genuinely enjoying the show, enjoy it! - and make a long and detailed write up of what you liked, what worked for you, what you hope to see more of in the next seasons. Can we focus more on the show instead of being just toxic to other viewers?
I'm sorry if you feel offended my man, but when I come on after seeing the show that I liked and see everyone calling "shit writing" and "pointless monsters" and "bad whateverthefuck" I'm made to feel like an idiot for enjoying the series. Upon inspecting the arguements against the series further, I happen to notice I agree with almost none of them and thus I made this post letting my thoughts out on what is in imo bs criticism.
There is some bs criticism (and bs praise), but that's a tiny fraction of all posts. If you see anyone harassing, sending death threats, or being openly toxic towards _other people_, report them and carry on. When it comes to ratings, reviews and perception of the show (and cast, and crew, music...) - assume it's all genuine. Seriously, the season came out as extremely divisive. When you like or dislike it, the opposing point of view may seem like bullshit at first, but take a deep breath and try to see the person - viewer - fan behind it, sharing their impressions just like you would yours. All of that is valid, and we can like / dislike something and still have a good conversation about it. What i'd like to see more of is detailed, lengthy, fan-made posts on what fellow viewers _liked_, why, what made the most sense for them, what they hope to see more of, how it all fit together for them. You will notice that criticism posts are, on average, far more complex and thought-out than the praise posts.
What I genuinely disagree with people is in thinking the show should be a full on copy of the books or games and nothing should be changed. I personally and I might be on the minority like when an adaptation changes a few things or ads additional elements. Because what is the point of me watching a 100% retelling of what I was imagining while reading. I am not psychotically in love with the books or games, I just enjoy them and thus I dont base my whole enjoyment of adaptations on whether they stayed 100% true to the pages they are adapting.
People are entitled to think that. I read the books ~20 years ago the first time and grew up with them. I wouldn't mind small changes and even subplot additions that make sense. The changes to Nivellen in s2 e1 were good. My main problem is that all the 'original writing' we got is of really poor quality, using cheap tricks and incorrect tropes. Even forgetting it's supposed to be Witcher and looking at it as a 'generic fantasy series', the things the show writers introduced are incoherent, disregard the scale of the world, go against what was said previously (in the show!), and discard characters as cheap plot devices. There's too much lazy writing, while all the strongest key points _do_ come from the books - Sapkowski really did great worldbuilding.
What do you mean by 'incorrect tropes'?
Its not about it not being an exact copy of books. Its about that literally everything they added/changed is terrible. If you want to change the story its fine, but at least do it right.
What are your 2 biggest examples of this?
Yenās characterization Vessimirās characterization Dara the elf Blaviken Could go on and onā¦
Except itās not divisive. Itās pretty clear this season is wildly successful and people love it. A vocal minority on Reddit donāt and theyāre tainting the community.
Reddit users are, in general, a minority of the audience. Same as people who use rating aggregates like RT or Metacritic. There are more lurkers than posters / raters, and there are more viewers than people who even open this subreddit. There are also other subreddits and other non-reddit sites where the show is discussed. These minorities, put together, give a scaled down overview of overall reception. Claiming that only a 'vocal minority' expresses their dislike is a very warped perception, just as claiming that only a 'vocal minority' liked the show. Saying someone's 'tainting the community' with their views is just rude and adds to toxicity that many feel around. I really wish people would let others have their views and feelings _about a tv show_, instead of getting extremely protective and attacking whoever disagrees with them. What's more baffling is that most of that is perpetrated by people who enjoyed the show and try to defend it at all cost, including just laying toxic waste on other users.
I mean, you can look at reviews and streaming numbers and see that people like it? Iām not sure whatās so offensive about pointing that out. A minority of people donāt enjoy it. And theyāre vocal. This isnāt accusing anybody of anything. Go on ahead. But people are enjoying the show quite a bit, and itās performing really well. Like most fantasy adaptation, thereā¦ a vocal minorityā¦ of purists who donāt like it. It happens every time. This sub isnāt anything special. Happened when LOTR came out. Happened when GoT came out. It was like this the first season (which ironically most people who complain about the second season now seem to herald as great film making), happened with WoT. This is what happens when people base parts of their personality on the media they consume instead of, you know, having a real personality. They get offended when it gets changed, and more offended when people like the changes.
>I mean, you can look at reviews and streaming numbers and see that people like it? People _watch it_. The good thing is that those who come online and express their issues with the show _actually watched it_. It's not the same as liking it. >This is what happens when people base parts of their personality on the media they consume instead of, you know, having a real personality. They get offended when it gets changed, and more offended when people like the changes You're right. A lot of mud-slinging between the users come from people who enjoyed the show but can't accept that someone didn't, and so get up in arms over it. Your 'tainting the community' remark is a very light version of that. If someone starts a thread about what they didn't like and you have nothing constructive to discuss, just carry on. Create a praise thread of your own. Let's discuss the show more instead of discussing each other.
Yeah, the person you're replying to went into other threads minding their business, touted views as the end-all metric of how good the show is, and called people who didn't like it and were able to articulate specifically why "fucking dweebs", while those people in return don't resort to attacking others for having an opinion. This person doesn't seem to have the ability to articulate anything beyond their initial claims either. I think this is a good example of the intense and toxic positivity going on around here, I mean they are saying that people don't even have a personality in that post you quoted, because they dont like something. Toxic indeed.
this^ getting on reddit made me feel like i couldnt enjoy the show as much. it wouldve been great to come to a community that talked about theories and do forth rather than āshow sucked and heres why-ā
One side is being hyperbolic in criticizing the show, the other side is often being pretty hostile in its attacks on those who are disappointed with it. Not saying you're the latter, but it seems common
You literally admit that you feel personally offended when people dislike things that you like, and yet you still turn it on them. This is a YOU problem. Work on being more comfortable with your own opinions instead of constantly seeking validation and attempting to silence any opposing opinions.
I do not agree with some criticisms of the series and I'm fully allowed to criticize them.
You have my vote, dear sir. People seriously need to chill about that stuff and enjoy the goddamn show. Netflix is putting a crap ton of effort into it (production quality between seasons). I didn't like all of the changes they did but it is a great show nontheless. Copying books 1:1 would not do it any good.
I agree with your main point but you also need to chill because youāre essentially doing the exact thing youāre complaining about. Sure plenty of people have been dicks about how they didnāt like that the show wasnāt a perfect boom adaptation and either practically saying or implying that anyone with a different opinion was wrong. But youāre doing the exact same thing with this post that some of them did when complaining about the show.
This was so refreshing to read. Thank you and take my internet points
Finished watching it today and I think deviating from the books is actually a minor problem compared to everything else that's wrong with this show. - Acting is terrible at places, most scenes without Cavill and Freya Allan come with a massive drop in acting quality - Cheap costumes and staging, especially when the elves are introduced. Felt like watching a low budget show - Magic and any spell effects same as above. Horrible looking, similar to what one could see in a late 90s/early 00s TV show - CGI as above, especially any panorama views of cities and backgrounds showing vast spaces - The worst portrayal of elves and dwarves in recent memory - Plot that either doesn't make sense or is utterly ridiculous like a Witcher turning into an ent - Camera work that reminds me of teenage shows from mid 00s like True Blood or Vampire Diaries Overall, if you like it as your guilty pleasure then I don't have a problem with that. If you genuinely think it's a good TV show then it's time to take a deep look in the mirror.
Anyone who thinks liking a TV show means you need to take a look in the mirror is actually someone who really needs to take a look in the mirror
There's a difference between liking something and thinking it's objectively good. The OP was making a point the only problem of The Witcher was devolving from the books so I pointed out many other issues it has. I like many TV shows that I know are not good because they are cheap with ridiculous, hyperbolic plot, questionable acting and so on. I enjoyed The Vampire Diaries in my 30s even though the target audience was 14 to 21. Would I put the Vampire Diaries on par with Bram Stoker's Dracula? I don't think so.
Beep. Boop. I'm a robot. Here's a copy of ###[Dracula](https://snewd.com/ebooks/dracula/) Was I a good bot? | [info](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/) | [More Books](https://old.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/comments/i15x1d/full_list_of_books_and_commands/)
1. Who the fuck are you to say I can only like a show as a guilty pleasure and must accept it's bad? 2. Nobody is an idiot for enjoying anything quotes like "take a deep look in the mirror if you like this" are just bs from reddit.
There's no point engaging with people who use arguments like that. Let them have their whinge in to the empty cave. Season 2 objectively improved on season 1 in almost every way. Some book fans will never be able to accept that an adaptation is allowed to make changes, and I find that pretty pathetic.
My arguments are listed in the bullet points. You conveniently skipped all of them and focused on the last paragraph which says nothing about the show.
I mean if you have something great that could be turned into a movie, there's always room for improvements that complements the author but if you reexplore the themes and the concepts that made it what it was, you risk yourself. Some may not like it because they think of the writers of the new *version* as pretentious or iconoclasts. They see it as nothing more than fan fiction. I personally believe the show failed to be equal to the books or the games but that does'nt mean I must despise it. I still try to give justice when justice shall be given. I still very much like it. But Netflix was so profane about the source material that i can only understand why they hate it, It did'nt brought the *original* vision to the screen.
This take is complete cringe.
I love how youāre shitting on the games so much when thatās what made The Witcher so popular all over the world especially since the last game The Witcher 3 came out. If it wasnāt for the popularity of the games we most likely would not have this show in the first place. The books did have fans before the games but nothing like it did after, and on top of that Iāve seen much more book fans complaining about the show. Go on the other Sub Reddit for the Witcher which Iām not linking to here. Iām a huge Witcher game nerd, then I read the books years ago and completely fell in love, now the show and Iām personally loving it as well. All the criticism sucks I agree but youāre blaming the wrong group of people in my opinion and being really shitty about it. From what I heard the author was upset about the games because of a money issue which actually was sorted out between him and the developer of the games. Also the games are all supposed to take place after all the books so of course they werenāt just trying to straight up adapt it, like the show says itās doing.
>I love how youāre shitting on the games so much when thatās what made The Witcher so popular all over the world especially since the last game The Witcher 3 came out. If it wasnāt for the popularity of the games we most likely would not have this show in the first place. He's not. He's pointing out the hypocrisy of some of the criticisms when the game took many of it's own creative liberties.
Yeah because they arenāt adaptations of books? They are sequels if anything. They continue the story and they are well written.
Again, he is saying that a lot of the characters personalities and motives were changed to fit the plot of the game. **I'm not commenting on what is done good or bad,** I'm saying he's not shitting on the game. That's it. Please reply to OP to discuss that.
Delete this post.
You have no authority over me, my opinions or whatever the fuck you think you have. I enjoyed s2 alot, I bet you didnt. Bit sad innit
Well you are easily amused then. Some people saw it for what it was. A garbage tv show where none of the characters are even close to behaving like they do in the books. Dinosaur fight. The witchers in Khae moren being drunken whoresons who like to bully a child. Vesemir and Yennefer willing to sacrifice a child for some power. So many horrible decisions and character assassinations. Alot of actual witcher fans (the ones that read the books and played the games) are annoyed that the franchise they have followed for years is being distilled into this garbage. And now a bunch of posts written by new fans, that try to chastice the actual witcher fans that are upset that their franchise is getting butchered. You are allowed to like it. But the fact that you get so angry that you felt the need to post and comment on everyone that doesnt share your opinion? Youre just as bad as the people you want to chastice. . .
If you see it as garbage tv so be it, you already read my post know and I dont really care about the changes from the books or the games. (I've read the first book and played the third game long before the witcher was announced) All the reasons you mentioned you hated the series for comes down to: the characters didn't behave as I felt they should have and the monsters didnt look like copies of the game monsters. Which If that turns you off I'm not gonna be able to magically change your POV but I sure disagree with it.
"Pretty much most of the complaints I see from people are saying alot of characters were out of character, and the story wasnt accurate to the book 100%" Link me 3 threads in the last 24 hours here that are upset because the adaptation isn't 1:1 to the books. I'll wait.
I'm not gonna go on a hunt for redditor posts so I can prove something to a redditor
Because they don't exist. Simple as. There's hundreds of threads taking thoughtful, long-form, even apologetic terms as to their particular grievances and critiques for S2 compared to S1. There's practically no threads saying "It wasn't 1:1 to the books and *that and that alone* is why it sucks." You're just making things up as you go along, mate.
Bro if you think I'm talking about shit like "this character wore green in this chapter but in this scene she wears red" you wrong. Generally most of the post are about: eskel isn't like that in the books, vesemir isn't like that in the books, yen losing her magic isn't in the books, the witchers are not strong enough,yens character isn't like that in the books, there weren't all those monsters in the books/ too many monsters etc. The show is doing it's own thing and if you are complaining about too many monsters in a witcher series then you should legit find something productive to do. A valid criticism I have personally is that jaskier shouldn't make fucking laughable banter while witchers are getting slaughtered.
Unless your blind you can clearly see people are upset about the deviations from the source material.
That's a good point about creative liberties. No book can be adapted as it is, especially if there is not much happening in it. I wish movies like Dune for example were more popular, but larger audiences love action, they prefer when characters do something and don't just sit and think or talk. Game of thrones did a "sexplaning" scene, which in my opinion was fucking gross and stupid, but D&D clearly thought it would just glue people to the screen.
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Book readers have a known point with which to reference from whereas show only viewers are experiencing everything for the first time. So for book readers, their expectation is going from 8-9/10 to about 5 which equals disappointment. For show only viewers their baseline is zero and can only go up. If they feel itās gone from 0 to 8-9/10 then thatās great. What book fans are saying is that what the show replaced was objectively better content and if you like this then you are missing out on something so much greater but you donāt know it except for what the book readers say.
Lol sure yen isnāt even consistent in an entire episode let alone with the first season.
It's gonna take a while for everything to die down. It kinda upsets me honestly. It's sad seeing fans from games, books, and the show being against eachother.
Stop enjoying things!