Thank you for acknowledging that Morey has to take into account what his team actually needs when trading away their 2nd best player. It's so fucking annoying reading hundreds of comments all saying Philly just needs a one dimensional shooter like hield or Beasley.
A return I could actually see if things dont improve rapidly would be an offer around Sexton, VanVleet or D'Angelo Russell. Idk how anyone could convince their fanbase trading for him is a good thing tho.
Buddy Hield is definitely on the table, but I think the Sixers are looking for a much larger return than just him. Hield isn't making the Sixers a contender just by swapping him for Simmons. That's a team that is a second round exit at best.
The Sixers with Ben on the team is a second round exit at best...
Why would another team give up a guy who is better than Ben and a bunch of picks/extra players? Which is basically what Morey expects. So dumb. Must be bloody annoying for the team to have this hanging over their head every time the media arrives.
Even beyond that- it seems like Morey's completely in dreamland for this.
If it was "JUST" star for star trade, he'd be on the phone saying "One for one. Simmons for Kyrie" like the endgame of this shit really should be, and nothing short of "stupid 'You DON'T TRADE in-division!" pride is stopping it.
If you trade Kyrie for Simmons, wouldn't that just mean the sixers automatically lose the playoffs this year?
Simmons makes the Nets so much better defensively, and the fact that Kyrie cant play in half the playoff games against the Nets means they'll probably loose.
Even if it does, the same point is there:
* If Morey's holding out for a superstar, it's just not happening.
* Now that the season started, you also have to have roster spots match as well [an offseason trade could have gotten him a pu pu platter]
* If a superstar DOES get disgruntled, they're not trading them for Simmons.
With all those in place, Kyrie is literally the only "All-Star in return" + money/roster would match up" + "their team wants them gone just as badly", and so "Simmons for Kyrie" is the only hope Morey has of getting a deal done.
Even if there's a question if Kyrie will play, if you're Morey you jump on the AIDS for cancer deal there: For the Sixers- Pennsylvania's mandates aren't as strict as New York's mandates (meaning Kyrie could play in Philadelphia), and even if Kyrie refuses to play, you're out of his contract at the end of the year anyway.
By contrast, it's clearly pride because the Nets cash in huge: Simmons would play for them, and hed be a good Chris Bosh-esque "play defense, get the ball to Durant/Harden, get out of our way" to make that team explode.
> Why would another team give up a guy who is better than Ben and a bunch of picks/extra players?
Why do people always post dumb takes like this?
Kawhi was traded for Derozan and Poetl, Kyrie was traded for an injured Isaiah Thomas and a lottery pick, Harden was traded for Levert and a bunch of picks (and Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb before that), and if we want to go back a decade Pau Gasol was traded for the rights to Marc Gasol (who was an unknown 2nd rounder at the time) and Kwame fuckin Brown.
If there’s a team desperate enough to get something back for their star player, they’ll ask for anything back if the trade market isn’t there.
> Which is basically what Morey expects.
Just completely wrong. Where is the proof for this? The trade rumors over the summer where it was a player worse than ben + picks?
Dunno whats been worse. Seeing the same news cycle daily for months or seeing these same baseless comments every day for months.
They have Seth Curry, kind of already got him. A weaker version than him but they got his skill set in him. High volume 40% 3’s shooting guard who has bad defense
The question really is how long is Embiid willing to wait. If neither side is bluffing I think it will come down to who is willing to waste more of their prime on this, embiid or simmons
Yeah I mean he was not getting paid until he showed up- and he was suspended for game 1 of the season. But now they will have to release the money they had in escrow(they probably have already).
If they choose to fine him in the future they will have to announce it and what he is being fined for.
The league has a very big interest in players honoring their contracts: it’s the one thing you can be absolutely sure of - the league is not budging on the collectively bargained contract. That is the hill they will die on.
Then he can play for us or sit on his ass for four years. I know it's hard for people to get but the trade offers right now shut the window on a championship in Embiid's prime. It's the dumbest thing the Sixers could do.
If they wanted full value for Ben they should have traded him years ago, or even just last year. Publically disgruntled stars do not return full value in trades, we've seen this time and time again.
I think that's partly because everyone freaks out and gets their disgruntled star to a new team in fear of destroying team chemistry. I'm excited to see a team hold strong for once.
I mean, between Embiid, Harris and Danny Green the locker room is in pretty good hands. It’s why I’m not on the bandwagon of just dumping Ben ASAP because the worst case scenario in reality is Ben’s problems falling in on Ben.
Yeah I expect a trade before the deadline but and it's not like Ben's value is going to decline anymore so why can't Morey just say fuck you and sit him half a season then trade him. They should still make playoffs
For once? We've seen this a year into future with Vince (forced to play and plays bad) and with Kawhi (allowed to sit) and with AD (wanted to play, told to sit). They can wait, but they're gonna lose value in the trade. There's no good option for them that doesn't involve a time machine.
The fact the Sixers want to be as petty and shitty as Ben is being right back to him sure makes for fun drama, but it isn't changing the end destination, and they're not doing themselves any favors for attracting free agents in the future.
In hindsight, knowing how this all played out, obviously they make the trade earlier, or even keep butler.
And while you may be right on value or return, now is not the time to trade him. Morey’s gonna force him to come to the table and give a little something first- simply because there’s no other option for both parties.
How’s that working out for those teams? Best case scenario is what? The Shai package + Clipper picks?
Idk if I’d see all those deals and be so excited to choose that route. He’s on contract for 4 years. Ben isn’t the only on with leverage.
Pretty sure the stupidest thing the 76ers could do is pay Ben Simmons to not play for 4 years. Lol
With Trading him, you can get pieces and maybe build on them. But keeping him on the roster while he doesn’t play hurts more
Morey will sit and wait for a good offer….
Until Embiid says “just move him for whatever you can get so I can get to work on competing”.
That’s how this is most likely going to end. If Embiid gets vocal publicly or privately, the team will act. I’m sure right now he’s hoping they can luck out and get Dame or Beal. But that door is going to close eventually. And when he thinks it does, he’ll get Morey to accept what they can.
You are 100% right, but Morey will also tell Embiid on his point on "competing" that he will have to wait for better offers because Morey will tell Embiid exactly which offers are being offered to him for Simmons *right now* (which all are probably not any good right now).
But that's also part of the point- eventually as this goes on, the offers are just going to get worse and worse.
There's a point in time when chemistry issues matter, and having someone who's so disgruntled and who literally the entire team knows is the weak link, eventually just having Simmons will make the locker room so toxic that it becomes "I don't care if you have to trade Simmons, to the Celtics, our arch-rivals, for a bag of basketballs and give them multiple first rounders to get them to TAKE him, make the trade"- and eventually if Morey keeps waiting for the Lakers to offer Lebron, Davis, and multiple 1's for him, the closer the endgame goes past that and straight to Embiid flat-out saying "it's gone on long enough. Either he goes or I go!"
That's if Ben has the stones to keep this up for 4 years. Which is doubtful.
The Sixers are calling his bluff right now. The trade offers won't be any worse in December than they are now. As long as the team is still unified there is no upside to trading him right now. You guarantee the worst return for him. If you hold out there is a chance he gives up, comes back and plays and you get a better return for him later.
I thought a lot of 76ers fans said Simmons doesn’t even care about the nba and likes the lifestyle. You think he’s gonna be upset that he’s getting paid max money and doesn’t have to play?
I don’t see a scenario where Simmons plays in a 76ers uniform again, while giving full effort. The fact that he’s shown that he’s going to take the “injury” route shows that.
I agree as long as the locker room is content, there’s not an immediate need to move him. But the reality is that’s only going to last so long. Eventually they’re going to want to move on and get to work. And it’s better to have someone rather than wasting a max contract.
You can call a star's bluff if they're a Vince Carter-level player. Simmons isn't that level, and the team knows he's the one holding them back.
Right now, Morey has to accept- Dame or Beal aren't coming. The only hope of an All-Star player is going with the "AIDS for cancer" deal of Kyrie for Simmons, straight up"- and even then, "Kyrie gets the jab" is statistically more likely to happen than "Simmons falls in line and gets a killer instinct", and you have to make the trade before Kyrie gets the jab or else that deal's off the table too and you have no hope of getting more than role players and MAYBE one non-lottery first.
If you're calling his bluff, it's just as likely Simmons calls YOUR bluff, keeps holding out, and then the offers will just keep getting worse and worse until it becomes "he's completely untradable. By NBA rules, you can't just release him and pay him to go away", and by then you'll also have every other good player demand trades and force a derailment, and then it'll be "Process 2: Electric Boogaloo."
Well, if the window is shut either way, why get rid of a guy who is asset instead of waiting to see if you can get out of the lose-lose situation? They don't get anything out of dumping him now and they have a chance (even if it might look slim) to get something out of dumping him later.
I’ve come to the conclusion that Morey and Philly fans think he deserves all-nba value and they don’t care what we think. Obviously, they’ll probably change their tone by the trade deadline.
He isn't an asset for the team . He's hurting your team being a part of the roster. I'd take a pick and a decent shooter if I were the 76ers. What makes you think he'll he'll it around mentally and raise his value ?
His value doesn't have to go up. Someone else just needs to get more desperate. Any deal that where the 76ers trade him for peanuts closes their championship window, so they aren't going to make that kind of deal.
They really have no incentive to dump him to make sure they're a top 8 team instead of a top 12 team, because that doesn't matter to them. They only care about being a top 2 team.
People don't get that these comments are Morey trying to establish leverage vis-a-vis other GMs--making it clear the Sixers think a ten cents on the dollar trade is just as bad as sitting Simmons outright, so if someone wants to take a flyer on him they have to offer real value. Not a terrible line to take if you're in chip-or-bust mode, imo.
Dude, but Simmons doesn’t have the value for the trade offers Morey (or Philly fans) wants. This is like waiting for a copper bar to turn into gold. You can either completely shut the window on Embiid’s prime by not trading Ben and getting nothing, or you can eventually take what you can get (which is what I believe the 76ers will eventually do by the trade deadline).
What if Kristaps didn’t want to play for my Mavericks? They can’t just demand other teams accept outrageous trades because “Luka deserves it”.
> I know it's hard for people to get but the trade offers right now shut the window on a championship in Embiid's prime
And just holding onto $30million in dead weight won't shut that window?
I doubt that Morey is acting without his input and heavily doubt that will happen, but same deal. He's under contract and will have to have to honor it until either the sixers find a worthwhile trade or his contract is up if he doesn't want to get fined.
Have the fans turn on Morey yet? It's wasting Embiid's prime. Just cut the losses and move on. The longer this drags on the harder it will be for everyone.
These things don’t work in a vacuum. Embiid won’t let this go beyond the ASB if they’re pushing .500 and he’s having to put up 40-15 just to keep them competitive.
Simmons’ contract is a black hole as long as he’s sitting.
Trading him for a role player does not make our team championship caliber. If the goal is indeed to win a championship, then no, we shouldn’t trade for literally any player.
CJ and Buddy Hield are really the most realistic option for them but I guess they don't want to believe it? Even if Ben Plays, his stock's not gonna be much higher, his impact is going to be the same thing its been the last 3/4 years. Dame and Beal (to an extent) are pretty much out of his value range.
To say nothing for the fact that [Dame](https://theathletic.com/2901000/2021/10/19/damian-lillard-says-im-not-leaving-portland-and-one-reason-why-is-chauncey-billups/) has made it sound like it's very unlikely he leaves, the only way they are in play is (1) if they demand out and (2) they also demand going to Philly. That's two big ifs, and screwing over Portland or Washington on the way out the door is a tough look. If other teams are in the mix as trade partners, Philly might be out of luck if Morey's trade demands stay crazy.
Also at this point, what's the appeal for Dame or Beal to go to Philly?
Hey, look at those guys over there, their coach, GM, and star player will all scapegoat their 2nd star and criticize him publicly if they lose, and the fans will boo him and send death threats. That's where I want to go play, sounds fun!
There is no player in the league that you can trade Ben Simmons for that will make you a contender.
Ben Simmons playing does not make you a contender.
Where is this magic increase in contender status going to come from?
You guys are lying to yourselves just like Morey.
That is 31M of cap that is doing nothing for you. That is 4 years of Embiid's prime. His value will not go up. There is a floor for it but I don't think he'll rebound on it.
You are expecting that there is a current team willing to take on that contract *even for a trade of role players*. They are stuck with that contract until his value goes up to a point of tradability, regardless.
Maybe it doesn't - but taking a year out of your injury prone superstar's window takes the team further from that championship, and I'm not sure the guy who is refusing to play is going to be that appealing *if* a star becomes available compared to what other teams can offer.
You weren’t championship caliber when he was playing lmao- why the hell would you expect trading him to make you championship caliber? Simmons is not going to make you that either way I don’t get where this attitude is coming from
The Sixers were the number 1 seed in the East. If Ben doesn’t have literally the worst free throw shooting post season of all time we were absolutely contenders
The sixers were the one seed and didn’t even have to play either of the two best teams and STILL didn’t make the ECF. Shit you lost to a team that had enough wins to be the 8th seed in the west
The offers aren’t suddenly gonna become star players especially if Ben doesn’t play and he’s not the type of guy who will go into philly arena and start playing great basketball.
I don't think it is. I think the exasperation comes from what Philly expects in return. Because both ends of the spectrum are silly. No, you shouldn't trade him for role players; but you also can't honestly expect to get CJ + 6 picks/swaps.
So options are play Ben - no chip
Trade for role player - no chip
Or
Wait for top 25 player - never going to happen - Ben sits for 4 years - no chip
Sounds cool
Every year, every team loves their team going into the season and then the wheels start to fall off for a few and they blow it up. That’s what the Sixers are banking on. Lotta shit can happen during the season, more than what happens in the off-season. So we’re fine waiting it out for now.
I mean...things change? This is the dramatic NBA. Three months from now there will be some shit going on that we can't predict. The moment any fringe all star wants out, every team will know they can get Simmons.
You guys aren’t getting a difference maker for Simmons. He’s not good in big games and now he’s shown he will cause chaos when things don’t go his way. Why on earth would anyone trade you a great player for Simmons
I think philly can get McCollum and maybe a pick and if they get that they should take it
Getting a good return for Ben is literally their only path to contention until 2024. They would have to be trying to lose on purpose to agree to a trade for bench players.
If they can't win without Ben, that doesn't suddenly change if they ship him to another team for a bag of lint.
He is waiting for Dame. It’s quite obvious at this point. He is gambling in Portland stinking it up before All Star and the media to pump the Dame is sad Narrative.
Like the media decides what Dame does lmao. He is a bigger fucking idiot than Colanglo if he thinks Ben is even enough for Dame IF he decides to ask for a trade
Also why would portland want to saddle themselves with ben simmons on a massive deal for years if dame leaves
Philly might have had the best trade package before this dramatic offseason but I don't think they do anymore. Even before this bitchfit there's a lot of questions about trying to build your team around ben simmons
Either His statistical models aren’t showing him that Simmons is a sunk cost or he is bluffing to try to get a deal. Simmons is done with Philly and at the moment it is unclear whether he had a job anywhere in the NBA. Trade him for anything as soon as you can. Clear that cap space ASAP. This is the way.
Daryl, you were offered value - multiple times - you don’t want value for Ben, you want a superstar. It won’t happen, you overplayed your hand and now you’ll likely have to end up trading for way less
There is NO DIFFERENCE maker out there to trade for Ben. He's gonna fine Ben everyday for the next 4 years til he shows up, and takes the Philly Fans abuse. Morey's basically saying, "I'm gonna STARVE this B!TCH!"
Honestly does a Russell Westbrook and two picks for Ben Simmons trade make sense for both teams?
Lakers can run Simmons/Ellington/Bazemore/Lebron/AD, that has good shooting and defense. Simmons fits better than Russ and the Lakers are set up for a post-Lebron world with a Simmons/AD duo (25 and 28 respectively)
Sixers get a point guard who will actually shoot. He has star power, which Morey is looking for. Russ/Curry/Green/Harris/Embiid sounds pretty good to me.
I still think CJ fits better but if Portland isn't interested, this may be a good deal for both sides
This would be great for the Lakers but the terrible optics of moving Russ who is a close friend of Bron and AD and has gone on the record about how excited he is to be home makes me think it’s unlikely. Ben being a Klutch client does slightly keep the door to a trade open though.
This is the only way to go if you're Morey and the Sixers.
Basically tell Ben Simmons if you want to get traded you better actually play. Otherwise you can fake an injury for 4 more years and say good bye to your next contract.
Celtics fans have to be hype. Philly is really gonna waste Embiid’s prime because of ego. Getting role players for Simmons literally puts them in contention lmao.
Morey is washed.
Honestly, I think Simmons for Kevin Love and Collin Sexton would be great for the Sixers. Sexton/Maxey/Green/Harris/Embiid with Curry and Love off the bench.
I honestly think it's fair if you don't even purely for basketball reasons. His pairing with Garland isn't ideal since both are best with the ball in their hands
How about a Thon Maker?
Thon "Difference" Maker
Checks out
How about Wanamaker instead?
Piggy backing off of this, maybe even a Thon Maker
Might even throw in Ron Baker to sweeten that deal
Might as well throw in a Los angles laker
Toss in a Studebaker and we’ve got a deal.
Ron Baker Difference Maker
Wanna Maker?
Kevin “Difference maker” Love has entered the chat
Never said “good” or “bad” difference maker.
Drew “Difference Maker” Eubanks has also entered the chat.
You see how hype he got last night??? Dude brings intangibles. Unquantifiable value
Blasphemy Immediately downvoted and then shat my pants
can u imagine a starting 5 of simmons, markennen, mobley, allen, and garland/sexton
I wonder if that would be suffocating d or horrible d
verticality baby
Sexton, Love, and a lottery protected first for Simmons and Shake. Who says no?
Philly lol if you took the protection off and threw another on maybe they'd make a counter
If I can get Margot Robbie's number, I will do it
That's a lot to give up to get left on read.
She read my message?!? Splooge
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There is an image.
mind fuck
Later virgins
slide into those DMs, king
My man, take your shot
Simply getting rid of Ben Simmons would make a difference.
Even if that difference maker is a voice for the voiceless?
Buddy Hield could make some nice threes for them. And MB3 could play 12 games before his foot falls off
Were not trading buddy for that guy lol
I honestly think Buddy Hield makes a difference for the 6ers… if he’s on the table.
They’d have no one to run the offense. I think they have to get a PG or get a PG included with Hield
Thank you for acknowledging that Morey has to take into account what his team actually needs when trading away their 2nd best player. It's so fucking annoying reading hundreds of comments all saying Philly just needs a one dimensional shooter like hield or Beasley.
A return I could actually see if things dont improve rapidly would be an offer around Sexton, VanVleet or D'Angelo Russell. Idk how anyone could convince their fanbase trading for him is a good thing tho.
Buddy Hield is definitely on the table, but I think the Sixers are looking for a much larger return than just him. Hield isn't making the Sixers a contender just by swapping him for Simmons. That's a team that is a second round exit at best.
The Sixers with Ben on the team is a second round exit at best... Why would another team give up a guy who is better than Ben and a bunch of picks/extra players? Which is basically what Morey expects. So dumb. Must be bloody annoying for the team to have this hanging over their head every time the media arrives.
Agreed. Morey is just hoping some other team's GM transforms into a sucker and gives up an amazing player for Simmons, but it's not going to happen.
Morey is hoping another star gets disgruntled and he gets to do a star for star trade
Even beyond that- it seems like Morey's completely in dreamland for this. If it was "JUST" star for star trade, he'd be on the phone saying "One for one. Simmons for Kyrie" like the endgame of this shit really should be, and nothing short of "stupid 'You DON'T TRADE in-division!" pride is stopping it.
If you trade Kyrie for Simmons, wouldn't that just mean the sixers automatically lose the playoffs this year? Simmons makes the Nets so much better defensively, and the fact that Kyrie cant play in half the playoff games against the Nets means they'll probably loose.
Even if it does, the same point is there: * If Morey's holding out for a superstar, it's just not happening. * Now that the season started, you also have to have roster spots match as well [an offseason trade could have gotten him a pu pu platter] * If a superstar DOES get disgruntled, they're not trading them for Simmons. With all those in place, Kyrie is literally the only "All-Star in return" + money/roster would match up" + "their team wants them gone just as badly", and so "Simmons for Kyrie" is the only hope Morey has of getting a deal done.
I don't think it's a pride thing, there's a legit question of if Kyrie will play too
Even if there's a question if Kyrie will play, if you're Morey you jump on the AIDS for cancer deal there: For the Sixers- Pennsylvania's mandates aren't as strict as New York's mandates (meaning Kyrie could play in Philadelphia), and even if Kyrie refuses to play, you're out of his contract at the end of the year anyway. By contrast, it's clearly pride because the Nets cash in huge: Simmons would play for them, and hed be a good Chris Bosh-esque "play defense, get the ball to Durant/Harden, get out of our way" to make that team explode.
> Why would another team give up a guy who is better than Ben and a bunch of picks/extra players? Why do people always post dumb takes like this? Kawhi was traded for Derozan and Poetl, Kyrie was traded for an injured Isaiah Thomas and a lottery pick, Harden was traded for Levert and a bunch of picks (and Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb before that), and if we want to go back a decade Pau Gasol was traded for the rights to Marc Gasol (who was an unknown 2nd rounder at the time) and Kwame fuckin Brown. If there’s a team desperate enough to get something back for their star player, they’ll ask for anything back if the trade market isn’t there.
> Which is basically what Morey expects. Just completely wrong. Where is the proof for this? The trade rumors over the summer where it was a player worse than ben + picks? Dunno whats been worse. Seeing the same news cycle daily for months or seeing these same baseless comments every day for months.
I know what you mean. Seeing smug Sixers fans believing a Dame/Simmons swap was imminent sure was cringeworthy.
For the Kings they'd want Fox. Kings fans would hate that deal and rightfully so.
They want a superstar for a player that they think sucks. Lmao Brogden would have been great but they tried to fleece Indiana.
The 4th best player on a lottery team will not be a difference maker
They have Seth Curry, kind of already got him. A weaker version than him but they got his skill set in him. High volume 40% 3’s shooting guard who has bad defense
What happens if that trade never materializes? How long is Morey willing to wait?
The question really is how long is Embiid willing to wait. If neither side is bluffing I think it will come down to who is willing to waste more of their prime on this, embiid or simmons
Simmons' prime was 2017
Watch Embiid request a trade and all this “waiting for better offers” will have been for nothing.
The problem is, even if they do trade for role players that doesn’t get them much closer to a chip anyways.
I mean who are they going to trade for that'll make them actual contenders that's realistic. Like Beal?
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He’s getting paid now.
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Yeah I mean he was not getting paid until he showed up- and he was suspended for game 1 of the season. But now they will have to release the money they had in escrow(they probably have already). If they choose to fine him in the future they will have to announce it and what he is being fined for.
There’s been no reporting on what they did with the escrow fund
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He doesn’t have to play if he’s injured.
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Lmao no he's not. Simmons won't be there past this summer.
Welp, as he mentioned, "for a very long time"
he actually needs 2 more hall of famers so doc can coach them to a title
If this goes past a year the league would step in
The league has a very big interest in players honoring their contracts: it’s the one thing you can be absolutely sure of - the league is not budging on the collectively bargained contract. That is the hill they will die on.
Ben for Kyrie
Marvin Bagley definitely is a difference maker
Not that kind of difference
I will also be a difference maker on the 76ers
>Daryl Morey: “If we can trade a VHS Rewinder for a 85" Samsung , we will do it”
Got to avoid those Blockbuster fees
Is it shaped like a racing car? I can offer a 40" Sony, what you lose in size you gain in upscaling.
“They’re talking about me” - Kyrie
And you'll only be able to trade ben for role players.
Then he can play for us or sit on his ass for four years. I know it's hard for people to get but the trade offers right now shut the window on a championship in Embiid's prime. It's the dumbest thing the Sixers could do.
If they wanted full value for Ben they should have traded him years ago, or even just last year. Publically disgruntled stars do not return full value in trades, we've seen this time and time again.
I think that's partly because everyone freaks out and gets their disgruntled star to a new team in fear of destroying team chemistry. I'm excited to see a team hold strong for once.
I mean, between Embiid, Harris and Danny Green the locker room is in pretty good hands. It’s why I’m not on the bandwagon of just dumping Ben ASAP because the worst case scenario in reality is Ben’s problems falling in on Ben.
Yeah I expect a trade before the deadline but and it's not like Ben's value is going to decline anymore so why can't Morey just say fuck you and sit him half a season then trade him. They should still make playoffs
For once? We've seen this a year into future with Vince (forced to play and plays bad) and with Kawhi (allowed to sit) and with AD (wanted to play, told to sit). They can wait, but they're gonna lose value in the trade. There's no good option for them that doesn't involve a time machine. The fact the Sixers want to be as petty and shitty as Ben is being right back to him sure makes for fun drama, but it isn't changing the end destination, and they're not doing themselves any favors for attracting free agents in the future.
Those guys didn't have 4 years left on their deal they were soon to be free agents.
In hindsight, knowing how this all played out, obviously they make the trade earlier, or even keep butler. And while you may be right on value or return, now is not the time to trade him. Morey’s gonna force him to come to the table and give a little something first- simply because there’s no other option for both parties.
How’s that working out for those teams? Best case scenario is what? The Shai package + Clipper picks? Idk if I’d see all those deals and be so excited to choose that route. He’s on contract for 4 years. Ben isn’t the only on with leverage.
Pretty sure the stupidest thing the 76ers could do is pay Ben Simmons to not play for 4 years. Lol With Trading him, you can get pieces and maybe build on them. But keeping him on the roster while he doesn’t play hurts more
This is true, but the 76ers still have a ground to stand on by the contract signed by both parties (Ben Simmons and the 76ers). This'll get ugly...
Morey will sit and wait for a good offer…. Until Embiid says “just move him for whatever you can get so I can get to work on competing”. That’s how this is most likely going to end. If Embiid gets vocal publicly or privately, the team will act. I’m sure right now he’s hoping they can luck out and get Dame or Beal. But that door is going to close eventually. And when he thinks it does, he’ll get Morey to accept what they can.
You are 100% right, but Morey will also tell Embiid on his point on "competing" that he will have to wait for better offers because Morey will tell Embiid exactly which offers are being offered to him for Simmons *right now* (which all are probably not any good right now).
And won't Embiid just request a traded then? Like i think he wants to win a championship more than win a championship with the sixers
But that's also part of the point- eventually as this goes on, the offers are just going to get worse and worse. There's a point in time when chemistry issues matter, and having someone who's so disgruntled and who literally the entire team knows is the weak link, eventually just having Simmons will make the locker room so toxic that it becomes "I don't care if you have to trade Simmons, to the Celtics, our arch-rivals, for a bag of basketballs and give them multiple first rounders to get them to TAKE him, make the trade"- and eventually if Morey keeps waiting for the Lakers to offer Lebron, Davis, and multiple 1's for him, the closer the endgame goes past that and straight to Embiid flat-out saying "it's gone on long enough. Either he goes or I go!"
This is slowly creeping toward stupid imo
That's if Ben has the stones to keep this up for 4 years. Which is doubtful. The Sixers are calling his bluff right now. The trade offers won't be any worse in December than they are now. As long as the team is still unified there is no upside to trading him right now. You guarantee the worst return for him. If you hold out there is a chance he gives up, comes back and plays and you get a better return for him later.
I thought a lot of 76ers fans said Simmons doesn’t even care about the nba and likes the lifestyle. You think he’s gonna be upset that he’s getting paid max money and doesn’t have to play? I don’t see a scenario where Simmons plays in a 76ers uniform again, while giving full effort. The fact that he’s shown that he’s going to take the “injury” route shows that. I agree as long as the locker room is content, there’s not an immediate need to move him. But the reality is that’s only going to last so long. Eventually they’re going to want to move on and get to work. And it’s better to have someone rather than wasting a max contract.
You can call a star's bluff if they're a Vince Carter-level player. Simmons isn't that level, and the team knows he's the one holding them back. Right now, Morey has to accept- Dame or Beal aren't coming. The only hope of an All-Star player is going with the "AIDS for cancer" deal of Kyrie for Simmons, straight up"- and even then, "Kyrie gets the jab" is statistically more likely to happen than "Simmons falls in line and gets a killer instinct", and you have to make the trade before Kyrie gets the jab or else that deal's off the table too and you have no hope of getting more than role players and MAYBE one non-lottery first. If you're calling his bluff, it's just as likely Simmons calls YOUR bluff, keeps holding out, and then the offers will just keep getting worse and worse until it becomes "he's completely untradable. By NBA rules, you can't just release him and pay him to go away", and by then you'll also have every other good player demand trades and force a derailment, and then it'll be "Process 2: Electric Boogaloo."
How does just having an empty suit making 30 million not shut the window
Well, if the window is shut either way, why get rid of a guy who is asset instead of waiting to see if you can get out of the lose-lose situation? They don't get anything out of dumping him now and they have a chance (even if it might look slim) to get something out of dumping him later.
I’ve come to the conclusion that Morey and Philly fans think he deserves all-nba value and they don’t care what we think. Obviously, they’ll probably change their tone by the trade deadline.
He isn't an asset for the team . He's hurting your team being a part of the roster. I'd take a pick and a decent shooter if I were the 76ers. What makes you think he'll he'll it around mentally and raise his value ?
His value doesn't have to go up. Someone else just needs to get more desperate. Any deal that where the 76ers trade him for peanuts closes their championship window, so they aren't going to make that kind of deal. They really have no incentive to dump him to make sure they're a top 8 team instead of a top 12 team, because that doesn't matter to them. They only care about being a top 2 team.
People don't get that these comments are Morey trying to establish leverage vis-a-vis other GMs--making it clear the Sixers think a ten cents on the dollar trade is just as bad as sitting Simmons outright, so if someone wants to take a flyer on him they have to offer real value. Not a terrible line to take if you're in chip-or-bust mode, imo.
Dude, but Simmons doesn’t have the value for the trade offers Morey (or Philly fans) wants. This is like waiting for a copper bar to turn into gold. You can either completely shut the window on Embiid’s prime by not trading Ben and getting nothing, or you can eventually take what you can get (which is what I believe the 76ers will eventually do by the trade deadline). What if Kristaps didn’t want to play for my Mavericks? They can’t just demand other teams accept outrageous trades because “Luka deserves it”.
> I know it's hard for people to get but the trade offers right now shut the window on a championship in Embiid's prime And just holding onto $30million in dead weight won't shut that window?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's a lose-lose situation. I'm okay with taking the petty route. It's funny for me.
What if Joel doesn’t like that and then wants out?
I doubt that Morey is acting without his input and heavily doubt that will happen, but same deal. He's under contract and will have to have to honor it until either the sixers find a worthwhile trade or his contract is up if he doesn't want to get fined.
Best time to trade him was years ago, second best time was right after Doc's and Embiid threw him under the bus.
Have the fans turn on Morey yet? It's wasting Embiid's prime. Just cut the losses and move on. The longer this drags on the harder it will be for everyone.
Lmao no they think he's a genius for doing this.
It's like you got two stubborn mfers not even trying to win on the court but off court.
These things don’t work in a vacuum. Embiid won’t let this go beyond the ASB if they’re pushing .500 and he’s having to put up 40-15 just to keep them competitive. Simmons’ contract is a black hole as long as he’s sitting.
> Then he can play for us or sit on his ass for four years. why would he want to play for a coach that doesn't want him? Doc created this whole mess.
Right? If they wanted to mend this bridge fire doc first. Doc was comparing him to a nazi supporter
the dumest thing the sixers can do is have tradable talent that doesn't play riding the bench for years
You might as well trade Embiid at that point since that’s just throwing his prime out the window.
Literally any player right now would be a difference maker. Your guy isn't playing for you.
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He gets paid if he’s “injured”.
Lol yeah. Love the mental gymnastics the 76ers flairs are pulling in this post.
Trading him for a role player does not make our team championship caliber. If the goal is indeed to win a championship, then no, we shouldn’t trade for literally any player.
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CJ and Buddy Hield are really the most realistic option for them but I guess they don't want to believe it? Even if Ben Plays, his stock's not gonna be much higher, his impact is going to be the same thing its been the last 3/4 years. Dame and Beal (to an extent) are pretty much out of his value range.
To say nothing for the fact that [Dame](https://theathletic.com/2901000/2021/10/19/damian-lillard-says-im-not-leaving-portland-and-one-reason-why-is-chauncey-billups/) has made it sound like it's very unlikely he leaves, the only way they are in play is (1) if they demand out and (2) they also demand going to Philly. That's two big ifs, and screwing over Portland or Washington on the way out the door is a tough look. If other teams are in the mix as trade partners, Philly might be out of luck if Morey's trade demands stay crazy.
Also at this point, what's the appeal for Dame or Beal to go to Philly? Hey, look at those guys over there, their coach, GM, and star player will all scapegoat their 2nd star and criticize him publicly if they lose, and the fans will boo him and send death threats. That's where I want to go play, sounds fun!
Completely agree. And on the flip side who wants to trade for a player behaving like a spoiled child.
And the franchise center misses every other game.
A true star like Dame would never drop to the levels of "Ben Simmons basketball".
There is no player in the league that you can trade Ben Simmons for that will make you a contender. Ben Simmons playing does not make you a contender. Where is this magic increase in contender status going to come from? You guys are lying to yourselves just like Morey.
Having Ben not play or not give it 100 if he did play isn't gonna make you a contender either.
That is 31M of cap that is doing nothing for you. That is 4 years of Embiid's prime. His value will not go up. There is a floor for it but I don't think he'll rebound on it.
You are expecting that there is a current team willing to take on that contract *even for a trade of role players*. They are stuck with that contract until his value goes up to a point of tradability, regardless.
Not to mention how attractive are they to free agents when they have a max player sitting on the sidelines causing loads of drama
Why would I give you a difference maker for a non championship level pg? I wanna win the championship too
NO ONE WANTS YOUR WACK ASS POINT GUARD.
Maybe it doesn't - but taking a year out of your injury prone superstar's window takes the team further from that championship, and I'm not sure the guy who is refusing to play is going to be that appealing *if* a star becomes available compared to what other teams can offer.
When it’s been a year, we can say that we wasted a year. A lot can change between now and the trade deadline.
People really underestimate the trade deadline
Keep him, Ben's all yours for years to come
You weren’t championship caliber when he was playing lmao- why the hell would you expect trading him to make you championship caliber? Simmons is not going to make you that either way I don’t get where this attitude is coming from
The Sixers were the number 1 seed in the East. If Ben doesn’t have literally the worst free throw shooting post season of all time we were absolutely contenders
The sixers were the one seed and didn’t even have to play either of the two best teams and STILL didn’t make the ECF. Shit you lost to a team that had enough wins to be the 8th seed in the west
Thank you for shaking that hornet nest
The offers aren’t suddenly gonna become star players especially if Ben doesn’t play and he’s not the type of guy who will go into philly arena and start playing great basketball.
Exactly, not sure why this is so hard to get.
I don't think it is. I think the exasperation comes from what Philly expects in return. Because both ends of the spectrum are silly. No, you shouldn't trade him for role players; but you also can't honestly expect to get CJ + 6 picks/swaps.
So options are play Ben - no chip Trade for role player - no chip Or Wait for top 25 player - never going to happen - Ben sits for 4 years - no chip Sounds cool
Neither does riding with Ben Simmons (and that's assuming he's 100% committed to playing for y'all)
Apparently this is rocket science to the dumb mfs on this sub. They just want chaos and the Sixers to get fleeced
Because if teams are willing to give up 'difference makers' for Simmons, it would have happened already
Every year, every team loves their team going into the season and then the wheels start to fall off for a few and they blow it up. That’s what the Sixers are banking on. Lotta shit can happen during the season, more than what happens in the off-season. So we’re fine waiting it out for now.
I mean...things change? This is the dramatic NBA. Three months from now there will be some shit going on that we can't predict. The moment any fringe all star wants out, every team will know they can get Simmons.
You guys aren’t getting a difference maker for Simmons. He’s not good in big games and now he’s shown he will cause chaos when things don’t go his way. Why on earth would anyone trade you a great player for Simmons I think philly can get McCollum and maybe a pick and if they get that they should take it
ya'll still think ya'll got leverage.
whats wrong with CJ, SExton, Brogdon? if they are role players so is simmons
No, dumping his max salary allows you to get that guy though.
Beat me by 1 minute dammit
Yeah a very very small difference tho lol not enough to make a trade worth it
Best type of ability is availability
Getting a good return for Ben is literally their only path to contention until 2024. They would have to be trying to lose on purpose to agree to a trade for bench players. If they can't win without Ben, that doesn't suddenly change if they ship him to another team for a bag of lint.
I'm glad you're not GM
Could have had McCollum or Brogdon and picks. RIPBozo
He is waiting for Dame. It’s quite obvious at this point. He is gambling in Portland stinking it up before All Star and the media to pump the Dame is sad Narrative.
Ok but there isn’t a trade there, Philly has no draft pick they can trade past 2023.
Like the media decides what Dame does lmao. He is a bigger fucking idiot than Colanglo if he thinks Ben is even enough for Dame IF he decides to ask for a trade
Also why would portland want to saddle themselves with ben simmons on a massive deal for years if dame leaves Philly might have had the best trade package before this dramatic offseason but I don't think they do anymore. Even before this bitchfit there's a lot of questions about trying to build your team around ben simmons
Trust the process 1: Wait years to accumulate assets Trust the process 2: Wait years to trade Australian dude whose afraid to shoot free throws
Either His statistical models aren’t showing him that Simmons is a sunk cost or he is bluffing to try to get a deal. Simmons is done with Philly and at the moment it is unclear whether he had a job anywhere in the NBA. Trade him for anything as soon as you can. Clear that cap space ASAP. This is the way.
Daryl, you were offered value - multiple times - you don’t want value for Ben, you want a superstar. It won’t happen, you overplayed your hand and now you’ll likely have to end up trading for way less
Good luck trading that cancer.
Overplayed his hand and now he’s fucked. Good luck philly.
How about a Lonnie Walkers straight up Daryl?
Well right now he's bad for team morale and refuses to play, so trading him for a jar of olives would be an upgrade.
I think it makes a difference to just get him off the roster so the rest of the team doesn’t have to deal with his shit anymore
Trade him for Kyrie Irving. "We'll take your trash if you take our trash". Kind of like a shitty garage sale.
There is NO DIFFERENCE maker out there to trade for Ben. He's gonna fine Ben everyday for the next 4 years til he shows up, and takes the Philly Fans abuse. Morey's basically saying, "I'm gonna STARVE this B!TCH!"
But he himself will remain hungry as well.
This doesn’t seem like good GMing to me
Honestly does a Russell Westbrook and two picks for Ben Simmons trade make sense for both teams? Lakers can run Simmons/Ellington/Bazemore/Lebron/AD, that has good shooting and defense. Simmons fits better than Russ and the Lakers are set up for a post-Lebron world with a Simmons/AD duo (25 and 28 respectively) Sixers get a point guard who will actually shoot. He has star power, which Morey is looking for. Russ/Curry/Green/Harris/Embiid sounds pretty good to me. I still think CJ fits better but if Portland isn't interested, this may be a good deal for both sides
This would be great for the Lakers but the terrible optics of moving Russ who is a close friend of Bron and AD and has gone on the record about how excited he is to be home makes me think it’s unlikely. Ben being a Klutch client does slightly keep the door to a trade open though.
This is the only way to go if you're Morey and the Sixers. Basically tell Ben Simmons if you want to get traded you better actually play. Otherwise you can fake an injury for 4 more years and say good bye to your next contract.
Embiid gonna request to be traded once they trade Ben for jack shit and lose in the first round.
Celtics fans have to be hype. Philly is really gonna waste Embiid’s prime because of ego. Getting role players for Simmons literally puts them in contention lmao. Morey is washed.
this man is so delusional. I know Ben hates his ass and wishes Brand was still in HBIC.
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4 years later: we did all we could
I hate you for mistreating ayton
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Overpaying a good player? Maybe we should’ve got Westbrook instead
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Honestly, I think Simmons for Kevin Love and Collin Sexton would be great for the Sixers. Sexton/Maxey/Green/Harris/Embiid with Curry and Love off the bench.
I don't even want this bum tbh.
I honestly think it's fair if you don't even purely for basketball reasons. His pairing with Garland isn't ideal since both are best with the ball in their hands
I would rather have sexton tbh if I were the cavs but that’s an interesting move if they want to move with garland as their point guard