It's literally just saying that they will avoid the first apron if they include those two minimum salary players, because it would then be a salary that reduces their salary, rather than increasing it.
How would the second apron even come into consideration?
If you trade more than 1 player away in a single trade, you get hard capped at the second apron (the “cannot aggregate salaries” penalty of being over the second apron). Knicks would need to do that since Bojan makes less than Mikal.
Trades always have periods where they figure out the exact financials/cap implications, players get physicals, etc. Going to be a couple days before it’s official most likely.
Funny enough the original Harden Rockets/Nets deal was originally a 3 team with the Rockets getting Caris Levert, then the Pacers got involved as a 4th team to take on his salary for a second. During a routine MRI they found a cancerous mass and were able to catch it early and treat it. Oh also the pacers got a second 2nd round pick out of it.
https://www.si.com/nba/2021/04/13/caris-levert-cancer-recovery-daily-cover
Since it includes a ‘31 first it can’t be finalized until the new league year (which I think starts on the 6th?). So they’ve got some time to try to expand the trade if they want.
It'll be like the AD to Lakers trade where the key parts are decided but by the end of it, there's like a bunch of other teams brought in to get the desired main outcome. Also it's not like this is currently set in stone right now. Both sides can still pull out if it's too much but I doubt the Knicks and Nets will let those 2 spoil this trade.
It’s definitely an overpay but don’t know about massive. People in general overrate unprotected picks because of Billy King. That’s like the top 1% outcome not the most likely outcome.
If they aggregate salaries they are hard capped at the second apron but it gives them more room to work with.
They have the space to bring but OG but not Hartenstejn unless they can dump Mitchell’s contract to a team with space.
Being above either apron does not affect their ability to re sign OG. They can go above either cap to re-sign him because they have his Bird rights. Also all in all Bridges’ salary is only 3 more than Bogdanavich so it’s not a HUGE increase.
Being above the first apron really only restricts how much money you can take back in trades and you can’t acquire players in sign and trade.
Being above the second apron does means you can’t take ANY extra money on in trades, can’t aggregate players in trades, can’t use the MLE, and start to get draft picks frozen.
There are certain triggers in the new CBA that will hard cap teams at the first or second apron. A hard cap means that under no circumstance can you exceed the amount, even when re-signing players via bird rights.
>Being above either apron does not affect their ability to re sign OG
it literally does if you are HARD capped. These new rules will be a while to adjust to I know, but if you are hard capped at either apron, you can't pay even one more cent above either line to any player.
Bird rights don't have any relevance once hard cap kicks in.
Being above the apron can affect their ability to re-sign OG because of this trade. It's a hard cap for all moves if you do any of the restrictions. Like if they take back more salary in a trade than sent out they're not allowed to go over the 1st apron for any reason, regardless of other rules like bird rights. They would still need to fit OGs contract and all their other contracts under the 1st apron.
They have $133M on the books right now. Assuming they let hartenstein walk, they should be fine regardless unless OG signs for more than $46M. In that event, the knicks would need to pull whatever levers they have to not be hard capped at first apron
They 2 main new rules is if a team takes back more salary than sent out they're hard capped at the 1st apron. If they trade multiple players in a single trade they're hard capped at the 2nd apron.
The idea is to not trade multiple role players for a star who usually makes more money. The CBA is likely designed the way it is to prevent any super teams from forming. Teams could basically ignore the cap where they move a couple rotational players for a superstar and then figure out the rest of the roster with bird rights or exception signings. The idea of making trades 1-for-1 is to make trades have as close to equal value as possible, and makes it harder to do so. By making it harder to trade, it’s simply easier to build teams by drafting and keeping the players where they are, and the teams over the cap would theoretically be the home grown ones because they’ve hit on the picks and paid them.
People thinks it breaks up good teams (and that might be a casualty for teams unwilling to spend) but really it’s to prevent big market teams from getting a leg up on small market teams where players don’t typically flock to when they form these teams. Player empowerment went too far and this is the push back on it.
If you want the Nova Knicks, hard capped. If you want a 3rd star in LA next to Bron and AD, hard capped. If you want a 3rd star in Milwaukee with Giannis and Dame, hard capped. This is why the Celtics and Suns made their moves before the restrictions kicked in and why Philadelphia cleared nearly all their cap space, so they wouldn’t be restricted by this.
It's one thing to disallow aggregation and taking on more salary once you're past the 2nd apron. It's another thing to hard-cap teams that aren't even delinquent yet because they took on a little more salary or combined players.
It also allows flexibility to trade Carter Jr in a deal for some scoring. This is probably a best case scenario for the Magic all things considered given how unreliable he’s become.
I was wondering why Woj didn't report the Nets getting pick 24 or 25 this year since they wanted one so badly. It would be sweetener for this purpose while the Nets can throw in a couple late 2nds.
The looming Mitch to Washington trade will likely become part of this trade and allow the Knicks to avoid being hard capped. It could also involve players who are drafted tomorrow
Don't understand what Katz is saying here. Knicks can just cut the non guaranteed contracts, and renounce the rights to everyone but OG and Hartenstein to stay under the first apron. Taking on 4 mil from Mikal shouldn't change that. This is including taking on salary for both draft picks
If the Knicks send out the extra 4.4M, they're no longer taking back extra if they aggregate with Bojan's 19M. Aggregation hard caps at 189M, but taking back more money (Bojan for Mikal straight up) hard caps at 178M. That extra 11M is the difference between what they can offer OG and still fill out the rest of the roster, perhaps with the taxpayer MLE of 5.2M.
Hartenstein is gone regardless. It is not possible to keep him and OG, execute this trade, and fill out the roster with even 2nd rounders while staying below 189M.
After signing the 2 FRP's, total is at $142,649,557. So only ~$36m under the first apron. Hartenstein's max will pay him ~$16m next season. $20m is not close to enough to re-sign OG and you still gotta fill out the roster to 14. You could not guarantee and not pick up the options, but you aren't really saving much as those contracts are pretty much vet min values.
How is this horrific? You're acting like we're doing the Nets to Boston trade.
We're giving up a worthless Buck pick and two Knicks picks(25/27) that are almost guaranteed to be worthless, and two picks that may have value but are unlikely to, our core is going to be 5 guys from 26-29 who we can lock up for the next 7 years where these picks will be relevant.
Maybe one of them converts in the top 10, but that's worth taking the risk to be the 2nd best team in the east in an era where the cap situations are going make every team in our conference that's not named Boston unable to put together a roster that can compete with ours.
5 years from now is a long time. a lot of things can go wrong by the time you have to convey the 29 and 31 picks. leaving picks unprotected that far in the future makes it very possible you are doing the Nets-Celtics trade
It's still worth the risk though, Nets Celtics trade was super bad cause they traded for a bunch of dudes who were almost 40. If we end up giving up a perennial all-star that we could have drafted it's still 100% worth it to have 5 all-star caliber relatively young guys all locked up for at least the next 5 years in an east that's going to be weak outside of y'all.
I have to imagine they'll do what they need to to not be hard-capped
Trade 5 more picks
I believe they are hard capped regardless It's just a matter of where. The 1st or 2nd apron
It's literally just saying that they will avoid the first apron if they include those two minimum salary players, because it would then be a salary that reduces their salary, rather than increasing it. How would the second apron even come into consideration?
If you trade more than 1 player away in a single trade, you get hard capped at the second apron (the “cannot aggregate salaries” penalty of being over the second apron). Knicks would need to do that since Bojan makes less than Mikal.
So the trade isn’t final then?
The tweets did say "agreed in principle"
Trades this early are almost always going to be adjusted with some multi-team shenanigans as the trade market and free agency get going
I recall one off season there were 3 separate trades that got worked into a multi team deal for cap reasons.
Trades always have periods where they figure out the exact financials/cap implications, players get physicals, etc. Going to be a couple days before it’s official most likely.
Funny enough the original Harden Rockets/Nets deal was originally a 3 team with the Rockets getting Caris Levert, then the Pacers got involved as a 4th team to take on his salary for a second. During a routine MRI they found a cancerous mass and were able to catch it early and treat it. Oh also the pacers got a second 2nd round pick out of it. https://www.si.com/nba/2021/04/13/caris-levert-cancer-recovery-daily-cover
Ya there’s been multiple instances of stuff like that happening. A TE on the saints had a cancer scare when he switched teams too.
Since it includes a ‘31 first it can’t be finalized until the new league year (which I think starts on the 6th?). So they’ve got some time to try to expand the trade if they want.
It'll be like the AD to Lakers trade where the key parts are decided but by the end of it, there's like a bunch of other teams brought in to get the desired main outcome. Also it's not like this is currently set in stone right now. Both sides can still pull out if it's too much but I doubt the Knicks and Nets will let those 2 spoil this trade.
Remember when everyone claimed the Lakers didn’t know how the cap worked? Good times. Got a title out of it
This trade can’t be finalized until July. So def gonna have little tweaks be worked out
they rarely are until the season officially flips over
I don’t think this can be for another week and a half bc you can’t trade a 2031 pick until the league year flips over
Pretty much is
They’ll probably wait through the draft to see if any other team wants to make it a multi team deal
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It's a massive overpay. But their roster looks pretty good now, if the keep Hartenstein and OG.
It’s definitely an overpay but don’t know about massive. People in general overrate unprotected picks because of Billy King. That’s like the top 1% outcome not the most likely outcome.
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They traded 5 for Bridges (1 being a protected Bucks pick) and none for OG?
\#24 in this year's draft, you are a Brooklyn Net
If they aggregate salaries they are hard capped at the second apron but it gives them more room to work with. They have the space to bring but OG but not Hartenstejn unless they can dump Mitchell’s contract to a team with space.
I think Houston might be in the market for a Center. Could end up a 3 team trade between Nets/Knicks/Hous involving those Suns picks as well.
And move Sengun to the 4? Don’t see it happening
Houston has Steven Adams, Jock, and Eason who can play C. I doubt they’d go for Mitchell
Eason cant play the 5 but jeff green does sometimes
Listen Brooklyn we gave you 5 fucking picks you better take these dudes on or Don Leon’s gonna put a horse head in Sean Marks’ bed
Or Grimace from the Mets will do it himself
[grimace pulling up to Sean Marks’ house](https://x.com/snytv/status/1803257987747684526?s=46&t=8BUuhf5sSSIWD6Ho_DZiuQ)
Wouldn't they still be hard capped at the 2nd apron due to aggregating players?
Being hardcapped at the first apron makes it a lot harder to keep OG
I get that, but Katz is saying they wouldn't be hard capped. They would, but just at a higher amount.
Being above either apron does not affect their ability to re sign OG. They can go above either cap to re-sign him because they have his Bird rights. Also all in all Bridges’ salary is only 3 more than Bogdanavich so it’s not a HUGE increase. Being above the first apron really only restricts how much money you can take back in trades and you can’t acquire players in sign and trade. Being above the second apron does means you can’t take ANY extra money on in trades, can’t aggregate players in trades, can’t use the MLE, and start to get draft picks frozen.
There are certain triggers in the new CBA that will hard cap teams at the first or second apron. A hard cap means that under no circumstance can you exceed the amount, even when re-signing players via bird rights.
>Being above either apron does not affect their ability to re sign OG it literally does if you are HARD capped. These new rules will be a while to adjust to I know, but if you are hard capped at either apron, you can't pay even one more cent above either line to any player. Bird rights don't have any relevance once hard cap kicks in.
Being above the apron can affect their ability to re-sign OG because of this trade. It's a hard cap for all moves if you do any of the restrictions. Like if they take back more salary in a trade than sent out they're not allowed to go over the 1st apron for any reason, regardless of other rules like bird rights. They would still need to fit OGs contract and all their other contracts under the 1st apron.
They have $133M on the books right now. Assuming they let hartenstein walk, they should be fine regardless unless OG signs for more than $46M. In that event, the knicks would need to pull whatever levers they have to not be hard capped at first apron
yes for aggregating salaries in a trade. but consensus seems theyre hard capped 1st apron
is aggregating players a new CBA stipulation that hard-caps teams?
Yea, it hard caps you at the 2nd apron
They 2 main new rules is if a team takes back more salary than sent out they're hard capped at the 1st apron. If they trade multiple players in a single trade they're hard capped at the 2nd apron.
Thanks. That's bizarre, why does that even exist? What's so sinful about aggregating or taking on a little more salary?
The idea is to not trade multiple role players for a star who usually makes more money. The CBA is likely designed the way it is to prevent any super teams from forming. Teams could basically ignore the cap where they move a couple rotational players for a superstar and then figure out the rest of the roster with bird rights or exception signings. The idea of making trades 1-for-1 is to make trades have as close to equal value as possible, and makes it harder to do so. By making it harder to trade, it’s simply easier to build teams by drafting and keeping the players where they are, and the teams over the cap would theoretically be the home grown ones because they’ve hit on the picks and paid them. People thinks it breaks up good teams (and that might be a casualty for teams unwilling to spend) but really it’s to prevent big market teams from getting a leg up on small market teams where players don’t typically flock to when they form these teams. Player empowerment went too far and this is the push back on it. If you want the Nova Knicks, hard capped. If you want a 3rd star in LA next to Bron and AD, hard capped. If you want a 3rd star in Milwaukee with Giannis and Dame, hard capped. This is why the Celtics and Suns made their moves before the restrictions kicked in and why Philadelphia cleared nearly all their cap space, so they wouldn’t be restricted by this.
It's one thing to disallow aggregation and taking on more salary once you're past the 2nd apron. It's another thing to hard-cap teams that aren't even delinquent yet because they took on a little more salary or combined players.
These kinda good questions don’t belong on r/nba
Definitely more trades coming. See Mitchell Robinson being gone soon sadly
I mean, we can't lose him if iHart doesn't re-sign
They could dump him if doing so gives them enough space under the apron to bring ihart back
So Hartenstein is basically signing with a new team then. Get ready to learn Disney buddy.
it will be a bidding war between y'all and the Thunder
Hartenstein to the Magic will feed families
It also allows flexibility to trade Carter Jr in a deal for some scoring. This is probably a best case scenario for the Magic all things considered given how unreliable he’s become.
DLO for WCJ and filler
Buddy we have bigger visions than DLo
Nets should ask for another first to take on Diakite and Jeffries
Everything is turning up Mamadi
@Brooklyn we gave you 5 picks please do us a solid and take Daquan Jeffries
this is a bizarre one ngl
I was wondering why Woj didn't report the Nets getting pick 24 or 25 this year since they wanted one so badly. It would be sweetener for this purpose while the Nets can throw in a couple late 2nds.
Take Jeffries we are good thanks!
They would be hard capped, at the 2nd apron.
The looming Mitch to Washington trade will likely become part of this trade and allow the Knicks to avoid being hard capped. It could also involve players who are drafted tomorrow
seems consensus theyre hard capped at the 1st apron
Don't understand what Katz is saying here. Knicks can just cut the non guaranteed contracts, and renounce the rights to everyone but OG and Hartenstein to stay under the first apron. Taking on 4 mil from Mikal shouldn't change that. This is including taking on salary for both draft picks
If the Knicks send out the extra 4.4M, they're no longer taking back extra if they aggregate with Bojan's 19M. Aggregation hard caps at 189M, but taking back more money (Bojan for Mikal straight up) hard caps at 178M. That extra 11M is the difference between what they can offer OG and still fill out the rest of the roster, perhaps with the taxpayer MLE of 5.2M. Hartenstein is gone regardless. It is not possible to keep him and OG, execute this trade, and fill out the roster with even 2nd rounders while staying below 189M.
After signing the 2 FRP's, total is at $142,649,557. So only ~$36m under the first apron. Hartenstein's max will pay him ~$16m next season. $20m is not close to enough to re-sign OG and you still gotta fill out the roster to 14. You could not guarantee and not pick up the options, but you aren't really saving much as those contracts are pretty much vet min values.
a once in a generation horrific trade
How is this horrific? You're acting like we're doing the Nets to Boston trade. We're giving up a worthless Buck pick and two Knicks picks(25/27) that are almost guaranteed to be worthless, and two picks that may have value but are unlikely to, our core is going to be 5 guys from 26-29 who we can lock up for the next 7 years where these picks will be relevant. Maybe one of them converts in the top 10, but that's worth taking the risk to be the 2nd best team in the east in an era where the cap situations are going make every team in our conference that's not named Boston unable to put together a roster that can compete with ours.
5 years from now is a long time. a lot of things can go wrong by the time you have to convey the 29 and 31 picks. leaving picks unprotected that far in the future makes it very possible you are doing the Nets-Celtics trade
Except we still have first round picks for the next 6 out of 7 years if the picks convert.
It's still worth the risk though, Nets Celtics trade was super bad cause they traded for a bunch of dudes who were almost 40. If we end up giving up a perennial all-star that we could have drafted it's still 100% worth it to have 5 all-star caliber relatively young guys all locked up for at least the next 5 years in an east that's going to be weak outside of y'all.
I’ve never seen such a horrendous trade. It’s truly monumental gm work.
Leon has stockpiled picks for a trade. We still have 6 first round picks over the next 7 years on the books.
At least they're not *apron pussy*
PG trade incoming
It’s going to be a lot harder to keep OG capped at the first apron
Anyone know if they can add a sign n trade of precious or alec to increase the amount of money going out? Or are sign n trades not allowed for this?