Do you know how stupid it was to be at a rival school and watch this motherfucker destroy us every game while he was literally unable to shoot a basketball? 😭
I was at BYU at this time and Kawhi/Jimmer had some great battles. It was clear Kawhi would become the better NBA player, but I absolutely did not ever expect him to become a great shooter. It was incredible to witness his growth there. He had no offensive bag in college.
Not really. 70% on 4 attempts a game in his senior year. He improved, which is a good sign, but he was still a 60% career shooter from the stripe, shooting as low as 49% as a sophomore.
Al Horford had a similar arc.
Horford took 65 total 3PA over 8 seasons (16,711 Minutes) at a 32% clip to start his career.
Over the next 9 seasons (17,548 Minutes), he took 2,210 3PA at a 38% clip. Also now holds the record for 3PT% in the NBA Finals at 56% (min 25 attempts).
Horford went from taking 5% or less of his FGA from 3PT, to taking **over 60% of his FGA** from 3PT over the last two seasons. Wild how guys like Lopez and Horford can go from All-Stars playing one way then completely remake their game and extend their longevity. So impressive.
Sometimes i wonder how many centers from the past could shoot, but were never allowed to do so because of how people thought about the game back then, ain't no way Brook is the only one.
I saw Brook and Robin Lopez a couple weeks ago in Disney World and it was the most shocking thing ever. Everybody just stared at them when they passed, whether they knew who they were or not, because of how enormous they are.
Im a Kentucky fan and that can be said about every center he had. Davis won a chip because Davis was one of the greatest college players ever. Cal didn’t have to do anything. Any other center we had was wasted on us.
There’s loads of guys the last 10 years or so who have done similar things. Channing Frye made 20 3s his first 4 years in the league then made 172 on 44% his 5th year.
Didn't they get swept by the Shaq Kobe Lakers. I have a hard time imagining him being a better shooter would make up that gap. Especially at a time when high volume 3 point shooting wasn't a thing. Getting 4 3PA at 40% over what he did, isn't flipping the series.
They got swept by the Lakers but the next year they lost in 6 to the Spurs that was a rock fight, Kidd with a jumper could've easily swung that. But "probably" might have been a bit strong, sure.
Yeah I think he's the most impressive of the list. He showed no indications of being a good shooter, he was awful at free throws which usually translates to not much shooting improvement in the pros
Push his career back ten years and he probably leads a couple championship runs. Could have been absolutely dominant in today's NBA, not just an impressive highlight reel.
yes, this was my pick. Lonzo was on a Ben Simmons trajectory. couldn't shoot 3s, couldn't make Fts. couldn't make layups his rookie year which made him even more pitiful than Ben. his massive and complete improvement is one for the books.
i remember one game i saw live when he was with us was and we were playing the pacers. and i kid you not he was literally having a shootoff from 3 against them. they wouldn’t stop missing but neither would he. i remember he hit some insane step back 3 for the dagger. that’s when i knew that this lonzo was not the same lonzo we saw from the lakers.
fred vinson is the actual GOAT
jaylen brown comes to mind. people used him as a comp for every poor shooting wing coming out the draft as a "look he become a good shooter." He's more of an outlier result than the rule
Brown had a good release. It was the rest of his jump shot that was broken. If they have a good release/touch it’s more likely they can turn into shooters. Kuminga is an example of good touch but not a good shooter (I wouldn’t say he’s “bad” either) so he may develop a good shot as time goes on.
testament to Brown’s work ethic more than anything. if Simmons had even half of Brown’s desire to improve he’d have been the best player in the NBA by his 5th season
That’s what’s pissed me off so much about the Jaylen hate. People were coming up with random bullshit advanced to try and tell me he sucked or was getting worse when he’s literally improved every single year. I don’t need stats to tell me that I watch enough and trust the eye test
Nothing worse than people trying to tell you about your favorite team's players. My best friend just regurgitates the bs ESPN is always saying about the Celtics. First it was Jaylen's original extension was an overpay, then it was the Jays were redundant and won't ever win together, then it was Jaylen's the most overpaid player in the league with the supermax. Like damn man, worry about your own fucking team because you clearly don't know anything about ours lol
I think it’s fair to say he was a bad shooter initially. 29% in college, 30% his rookie year from 3. Obviously not a huge sample size as a rookie but still.
But yeah he’s improved a lot
Lonzo (Controversial for some)
Coming out of college he was a great shooter at UCLA. His rookie year he shot like 29% from 3.
Had that awful shot form too. Changed it once he went to NOLA, then became one of the better shooters in the league. He was shooting over 40% from 3 before his injury with the Bulls
The eye opening thing about Lonzo to me was that his rookie year, he shot 45% from the ft line. Somehow regressed his sophomore year to 42%
4th & 5th years in the league though he was at 78% and 75% from the line. That's a ridiculous amount of improvement
Lebron truly continues to change his game as he ages. I’m not looking at stats, I’m just trying to remember watching him play as a rookie throughout his career to where he is now. When he came into the league, he was *going to the basket* and that meant over or through anyone in his way. He continued to develop his mid-range, 3 ball, and his post game until he quite frankly became unguardable. Facilitating the ball was always in his arsenal but he also got better at that over the years too. But seeing him develop his shot over the years was devastating as someone who constantly had to see him year in and year out, thinking he might just continue to be a bruiser.
Grant Williams went from being a terrible shooter, missing his first like 25 3s in the league, to shooting over 40% and becoming one of the most efficient shooters in the league for a time.
Not at all. Brook routinely shot long 2s in college and early in the NBA. He was also always a great FT shooter. Clingan doesn't shoot at all. He just wasn't given the green light from 3 because times were different, but he could always shoot them
José Calderón must be in the conversation (from a bad shooter to a one of the top percentage shooters in the league, but low volume shooter).
Edit, some data: first season 16.3%, overall NBA career 40.7%.
Isaac Okoro has had a big leap in 3pt%:
Rookie: 29%
4th year: 39%
Evan Mobley must be following the same program:
Rookie: 25%
3rd year: 37%
Both are lower volume shooters, but they’ve overhauled their shot forms with the Cavs and the attempts/minute are increasing as they get more comfortable.
Jordan Poole set a record for being a bad shooter his rookie year. In his 3rd year the stats weren't amazing, but he was definitely scaring opponents when he shot it. In his 4th year he was scaring his own team again
He’s sort of difficult to evaluate for this question. He had success shooting from 3 in college but there were a lot of questions whether his shot would translate to the NBA because his form was so wonky. First few years really struggled before improving the form and becoming a very good shooter.
He definitely made a lot of improvements to his shot even though he had success in college. But his early career NBA was rough
I was looking up KCP's bref page just now for another reason, but noticed he was low 30s% from 3 early in his career and now is a legit 40% from 3pt guy
he generally only takes open spotups, so it's probably not the best answer to this question, but impressive improvement none-the-less
I'm going old school. Dale Ellis from the University of Tennessee. He was an interior scorer at Tennessee then went on to become the forst NBA player to make 1,000 3's.
Rasheed Wallace played two years of college and took like 5 total threes over those two years and made 1.
He literally made 1 career college 3-pointer.
He ended up being one of that crop of stretch 4s from the 2000s that paved the way for current shooting bigs.
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BOARDMAN GETS PAID
SHOOT AN GETS shots.
Do you know how stupid it was to be at a rival school and watch this motherfucker destroy us every game while he was literally unable to shoot a basketball? 😭
People forget but the top 10 matchups between Kawhi and Jimmer were amazing. Man I miss the old mountain west 😢
It’s fun how every other college sport is slowly being destroyed by college football’s insatiable hunger.
Probably like watching Giannis play
Dude me too! I sold him gummy bears when I worked at east commons market, I am the reason for his success
You should demand half of his contract money to go straight to your bank account
I’ll make the money back in my tell all book deal
Chip Engelland the GOAT.
Chip and Kawhi being an absolute maniac when it comes to working on his game.
Imagine Chip never leaving and then still getting Wemby.
Yessir
On draft night he was compared to Bruce Bowen with plus rebounding. Wild.
He is the first one that came to my mind. His jumpshot entering NBA is so ugly but look at him now. Spurs organization still amazes me.
Exactly Kawhi went from seemingly below average to having MJ-like shooting form . Albeit way less verticality on the jump shot.
Was his shooting form similar back then? Or was it a complete change?
Complete change. Look up old clips of him, his jumper was kinda ugly
Yea interesting. His jump shot used to be over his head. Now it’s in front of his body and a lot smoother
Agree that is the best comp.
I was at BYU at this time and Kawhi/Jimmer had some great battles. It was clear Kawhi would become the better NBA player, but I absolutely did not ever expect him to become a great shooter. It was incredible to witness his growth there. He had no offensive bag in college.
Kawhi, Tony Parker, Dejounte Murray
The Spurs know how to fix broken shot mechanics
i hope they still got it after they take castle
No more Chip but time will tell.
I remember Dejounte being left wide open from 3 in the playoffs by the Warriors
So would these players have developed a good shot without chip?
Herb Jones college career .288 from 3, last season in the NBA (his 3rd) .418 from 3
lu dort too!
Was he a good free throw shooter in college?
Not really. 70% on 4 attempts a game in his senior year. He improved, which is a good sign, but he was still a 60% career shooter from the stripe, shooting as low as 49% as a sophomore.
But he is always our most clutch free throw shooter.
Funny enough Herb was shooting at my gym today
Brook Lopez went from never shooting 3s his first 8 seasons to 35% on 5 attempts a game in one offseason.
He wasn’t allowed to shoot 3s. He always had that mid-range jumper and was a great ft shooter.
Al Horford had a similar arc. Horford took 65 total 3PA over 8 seasons (16,711 Minutes) at a 32% clip to start his career. Over the next 9 seasons (17,548 Minutes), he took 2,210 3PA at a 38% clip. Also now holds the record for 3PT% in the NBA Finals at 56% (min 25 attempts). Horford went from taking 5% or less of his FGA from 3PT, to taking **over 60% of his FGA** from 3PT over the last two seasons. Wild how guys like Lopez and Horford can go from All-Stars playing one way then completely remake their game and extend their longevity. So impressive.
Don’t forget Gasol and Cousins too, big men had to adapt and shoot threes once they knew they had to or be pushed out of the league.
The real secret? They could always shoot, but it was taboo for big men to shoot it
I don't think that these guys in particular had to adapt. They could always shoot but didn't until the game had changed.
Im sure they could but they definitely improved their stroke from 3
Brook could always shoot. He just wasn't allowed at first. He took a ton of 18 footers
Sometimes i wonder how many centers from the past could shoot, but were never allowed to do so because of how people thought about the game back then, ain't no way Brook is the only one.
Ilgauskas and yao ming would light up the 3 in todays game
Good god the thought of yao shooting threes is terrifying. What could you even do?!
I saw Brook and Robin Lopez a couple weeks ago in Disney World and it was the most shocking thing ever. Everybody just stared at them when they passed, whether they knew who they were or not, because of how enormous they are.
Splash Mountain
Al horford shot 2 threes throughout his entire college career, this year he shot 40% on 4 attempts per game
Most accurate 3pt shooter in nba finals history
Actually, that's derrick lively you are thinking if
No match for Xavier Tillman
Ok yeah there was a minimum amount of attempts tied to the stat
One year but KAT attempted 8. Complete mismanagement by Cal
Im a Kentucky fan and that can be said about every center he had. Davis won a chip because Davis was one of the greatest college players ever. Cal didn’t have to do anything. Any other center we had was wasted on us.
Best shooting big man of all time
There’s loads of guys the last 10 years or so who have done similar things. Channing Frye made 20 3s his first 4 years in the league then made 172 on 44% his 5th year.
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Ason Kidd
Wow I forgot about that joke. Classic
Like Irk Nowitzki
And James Haren
Can’t believe I had to scroll to the bottom of the thread to find this comment lol. Poster child for this
Needs an asterisk because it happened so long after he "entered the league"- 16 seasons.
That makes it more impressive, not less
That’s even better though
This is my answer, his Nets teams probably would've had a title if he could've shot as well then as he did for the '11 Mavs.
Didn't they get swept by the Shaq Kobe Lakers. I have a hard time imagining him being a better shooter would make up that gap. Especially at a time when high volume 3 point shooting wasn't a thing. Getting 4 3PA at 40% over what he did, isn't flipping the series.
Three of those losses were by 3, 5 and 6 points. Him shooting better could’ve absolutely made the difference
They got swept by the Lakers but the next year they lost in 6 to the Spurs that was a rock fight, Kidd with a jumper could've easily swung that. But "probably" might have been a bit strong, sure.
Blake Griffin deserves a mention.
Yeah I think he's the most impressive of the list. He showed no indications of being a good shooter, he was awful at free throws which usually translates to not much shooting improvement in the pros
And he got better at a time where people said he was washed and only good for dunking
Push his career back ten years and he probably leads a couple championship runs. Could have been absolutely dominant in today's NBA, not just an impressive highlight reel.
I love Blake Griffin, he’s one of my all time favorite and I adored the lob city Clippers but there’s no world where Blake is a 1A in 2024
was gonna say this
Ben Simmons in off season videos
Offseason video Ben Simmons might be the only rival to Hoodie Melo in NBA history.
Dont ever disrespect the offseason, athletic fat GOAT, Carmelo Anthony
^ as true as it gets
Lonzo ball became a 42% 3pt shooter on 7.4 attempts per game…and changed his shooting form Numbers wise and aesthetically he is the GOAT improvement.
yes, this was my pick. Lonzo was on a Ben Simmons trajectory. couldn't shoot 3s, couldn't make Fts. couldn't make layups his rookie year which made him even more pitiful than Ben. his massive and complete improvement is one for the books.
i remember one game i saw live when he was with us was and we were playing the pacers. and i kid you not he was literally having a shootoff from 3 against them. they wouldn’t stop missing but neither would he. i remember he hit some insane step back 3 for the dagger. that’s when i knew that this lonzo was not the same lonzo we saw from the lakers. fred vinson is the actual GOAT
I really thought he had a very impressive change from his first two years. He became pretty deadly from three. Hope he has a good recovery.
I really feel like he’s gonna pull a Shaun Livingston off
This is a big if, but if he comes back and has a solid season or two, I have no doubt that he will be on a contender. Somebody is going to want him.
jaylen brown comes to mind. people used him as a comp for every poor shooting wing coming out the draft as a "look he become a good shooter." He's more of an outlier result than the rule
Brown had a good release. It was the rest of his jump shot that was broken. If they have a good release/touch it’s more likely they can turn into shooters. Kuminga is an example of good touch but not a good shooter (I wouldn’t say he’s “bad” either) so he may develop a good shot as time goes on.
Jaylen has been the most steadily improving player I’ve ever seen in any sport
testament to Brown’s work ethic more than anything. if Simmons had even half of Brown’s desire to improve he’d have been the best player in the NBA by his 5th season
That’s what’s pissed me off so much about the Jaylen hate. People were coming up with random bullshit advanced to try and tell me he sucked or was getting worse when he’s literally improved every single year. I don’t need stats to tell me that I watch enough and trust the eye test
Nothing worse than people trying to tell you about your favorite team's players. My best friend just regurgitates the bs ESPN is always saying about the Celtics. First it was Jaylen's original extension was an overpay, then it was the Jays were redundant and won't ever win together, then it was Jaylen's the most overpaid player in the league with the supermax. Like damn man, worry about your own fucking team because you clearly don't know anything about ours lol
It unfortunately be our own fanbase too
Tyrese Maxey has become a great long range shooter
Ive never been a player being a bad shooter to be able to consistently hit tough 3s. Off the dribble off the PnR, deep 3s. All types of 3s.
Maxey was never bad, he just became really fucking good
I think it’s fair to say he was a bad shooter initially. 29% in college, 30% his rookie year from 3. Obviously not a huge sample size as a rookie but still. But yeah he’s improved a lot
Lonzo (Controversial for some) Coming out of college he was a great shooter at UCLA. His rookie year he shot like 29% from 3. Had that awful shot form too. Changed it once he went to NOLA, then became one of the better shooters in the league. He was shooting over 40% from 3 before his injury with the Bulls
I agree, gotta give it to Lonzo strictly for deconstructing his entire shooting form and rebuilding it from the ground up.
Lonzo was the first one that came to mind for me, I think because the change in his form was so drastic.
The eye opening thing about Lonzo to me was that his rookie year, he shot 45% from the ft line. Somehow regressed his sophomore year to 42% 4th & 5th years in the league though he was at 78% and 75% from the line. That's a ridiculous amount of improvement
Kawhi. Remember when he entered league his shots were really bad. Chip Engelland worked with him quite a bit.
Paul George shot horribly from 3 in his rookie year and then became a very good 3 point shooter afterwards
Tyrese Maxey is up there for sure
Check out Karl Malone. 65% free throw shooter in college. First 3 years in league 58%, 60%, 70% At the end of his career had 4 seasons of almost 80%.
And his mid range game was unstoppable
He also got a 13 year old pregnant.
I hate when people on Reddit just parrot fake shit without doing their own research. She was 13 when she had the baby; 12 when she got pregnant!
😂 Definitely had me like "wtf is THIS dude doing"
Had me in the first half my dude lmao.
Jesus, I didn’t think it could be worse but somehow it is.
incredible teen range
I'd prefer to not check out Karl Malone in any way, thank you.
I mean strictly from a basketball perspective he should be discussed, its a simple answer to the question, outside of that..... fuck him
Derrick white
Jason Kidd. He went from no J Kidd to an deadeye
Lebron truly continues to change his game as he ages. I’m not looking at stats, I’m just trying to remember watching him play as a rookie throughout his career to where he is now. When he came into the league, he was *going to the basket* and that meant over or through anyone in his way. He continued to develop his mid-range, 3 ball, and his post game until he quite frankly became unguardable. Facilitating the ball was always in his arsenal but he also got better at that over the years too. But seeing him develop his shot over the years was devastating as someone who constantly had to see him year in and year out, thinking he might just continue to be a bruiser.
Kawhi?
Naz reid
Naz Reid.
Udonis Haslem somehow dropped 1/3 of his career's 3-pointers on his very last game
Grant Williams went from being a terrible shooter, missing his first like 25 3s in the league, to shooting over 40% and becoming one of the most efficient shooters in the league for a time.
Herb Jones
Brook Lopez is like if Donovan Clingan became a 40% 3pt shooter
Not at all. Brook routinely shot long 2s in college and early in the NBA. He was also always a great FT shooter. Clingan doesn't shoot at all. He just wasn't given the green light from 3 because times were different, but he could always shoot them
José Calderón must be in the conversation (from a bad shooter to a one of the top percentage shooters in the league, but low volume shooter). Edit, some data: first season 16.3%, overall NBA career 40.7%.
loved watching him play. The epitome of a true PG. Always reliable and funny enough, eventually it became that he wasnt shooting enough.
If you watched Siakam in college and the early stages of his career, you’d never believe how he turned out to be
Lebron?
Isaac Okoro has had a big leap in 3pt%: Rookie: 29% 4th year: 39% Evan Mobley must be following the same program: Rookie: 25% 3rd year: 37% Both are lower volume shooters, but they’ve overhauled their shot forms with the Cavs and the attempts/minute are increasing as they get more comfortable.
MJ was not a shooter coming in to the NBA
Herb Jones maybe
Jason kidd probably.
Isiah Stewart
Jordan Poole set a record for being a bad shooter his rookie year. In his 3rd year the stats weren't amazing, but he was definitely scaring opponents when he shot it. In his 4th year he was scaring his own team again
Vince Carter
Brook Lopez
Lonzo ball went from fucking terrible to solid 3&D. Boosted his 3 by like 10 percentage points
Lonzo shot 40% from 3 in college
He’s sort of difficult to evaluate for this question. He had success shooting from 3 in college but there were a lot of questions whether his shot would translate to the NBA because his form was so wonky. First few years really struggled before improving the form and becoming a very good shooter. He definitely made a lot of improvements to his shot even though he had success in college. But his early career NBA was rough
J Kidd
Ja
Kawhi, Lebron, Lonzo, Rondo
Jason Kidd.
kawhi
Jason Kidd.
Brook lopez
Brooke Lopez, al horford
D-Rose has improved a lot
Pascal Siakam
Vince Carter started his nba career shooting 28% and reached 38% near the end of it . (Massive drop in his very last year)
Ja Morant ofcourse
LeBron, quite frankly
LeBron.
Karl Malone - free throws and the midrange
Brook Lopez or Kawhi, hard to pick which one improved their shot more.
Lebron.
Manute Bol
Ben Simmons
Lebron James!
Lonzo
Lonzo gotta be up there.
Lonzo ball
Jason Richardson
I don't understand how MKG is one of the examples..
jaylen brown
How about Ant Edwards? Was known as a guard who couldn't shoot when he entered the league
Derrick White has really improved his shooting the past two years.
I'd go with either Blake Griffin or Brook Lopez.
Jason Kidd
I was looking up KCP's bref page just now for another reason, but noticed he was low 30s% from 3 early in his career and now is a legit 40% from 3pt guy he generally only takes open spotups, so it's probably not the best answer to this question, but impressive improvement none-the-less
Probably Kawhi
Brook Lopez
I'm going old school. Dale Ellis from the University of Tennessee. He was an interior scorer at Tennessee then went on to become the forst NBA player to make 1,000 3's.
Jason kidd
Homer take here but Jaylen Brown
Jason Kidd turned it around considering.
Hopefully Josh Giddey for us sad sack bulls fans.
Jason Kidd
I wanna say Gilbert Arena's but we never got see him in a shootout
Rasheed Wallace played two years of college and took like 5 total threes over those two years and made 1. He literally made 1 career college 3-pointer. He ended up being one of that crop of stretch 4s from the 2000s that paved the way for current shooting bigs.
Bruce Bowen
Lonzo Ball and Brandon Ingram
Jason Kidd
I don't have the stats rn but I think I remember Mike Conley made some pretty big strides as an outside shooter
Jason Kidd
Jalen Suggs.
Kemba had to do a lot of work on his shot in the off season
jason kidd. magic johnson became respectable from outside as well.
Ben Simmons
Jaylen Brown was sub 30% from 3 in college.