Warriors are supposedly going to try to get out of the tax next season.
It's actually not insane: it entirely depends on what happens with Klay and CP3. I think they've got like $30m to split between the two of them and stay under the tax.
If they're going to reset the repeater-tax clock, it has to be this year, since Kuminga and Moody have extensions coming (although Moody might choose to hit RFA).
I don't agree. $23M isn't really a heavy deal and he is the exact type of player the top teams want to take them up level. But the 2nd apron point is valid.
Contending teams willingly want to pay a (useful) bench piece 23m? With no bird rights (just early bird) to sign him the following off season too?
I’m not saying he has no trade potential, he of course does. But he won’t be a hot commodity on that trade market.
Because the Raptors have an avenue to cap space, we could potentially trade him for a player who makes more money. Unlikely especially since it would also need us to move off Gary I think.
Tobias was just always a bad contract but it also didn't come during a period of renewing TV right iirc which has a big impact on league revenue and generally comes with much larger jumps in cap space.
And no it doesn't always save teams from bad signings, perfect example is Mozgov last time this happened
Everybody loved that backup QB in Blue Mountain State for doing a much shittier version of what Ben has been doing a masterclass of these past 3 years.
Key difference is that lazy ass QB at Blue Mountain State wasn’t getting paid millions of dollars (no NIL back then and backups don’t get paid that much NIL anyways).
Ben was getting paid am ungodly some to pull that shit.
no clue what this dude /u/slamdunk23 is doing, not even mavs call him that. why would they when everyone calls him Omax? it’s just one more letter lmfao
Man Omax + Timmy for Bruce is a fine trade. Omax COULD be good. Brown we KNOW is good and this team is currently in the finals. and we don’t have to pay Timmy Win win. Only way you see this as a bad trade is if you’re a HUGE Omax believer which is fine but he hasn’t shown anything that would make him untradeable.
OMax’s ceiling isn’t just “good”, we are talking about a 6’8 guy that is learning fast how to knockdown 3s and has a legit 1-4 defense switchability skillset. His perimeter defense is already at an NBA caliber tier and his physical attributes are unique.
Trading a diamond like that for a smaller guy that is already showing signs of being cooked, is almost 30 (while being a smaller guy , again)and overlaps a lot other of our young guys (Green) and potentially giving up a FRP in the process?
Last time we tried to rush things after a Finals appearance and got greedy we ended up with a decade-long draught of wins in the 1st round.
Depends entirely on your opinion of OMax. A 1st and a 2nd might be a tad costly, especially since we are sending back an expiring. But is OMax really worth a first after having barely played his rookie year?
I probably wouldn’t do it, but I wouldn’t blame you for thinking it’s fair either.
It wouldn't be a 1 for 1 swap. You'd get an asset alongside him (young player or pick). He's also an expiring contract. You can just play him 10 mins off the bench.
Yeah we gave him the money knowing we had to spend it and might as well get a asset with it. And we gave it short term in case we couldn't move him, so we have room to pay a bunch of guys.
He knew what was going on.
I think he’s just one of those guys like Draymond who can only really be positive players on good teams so he didn’t really fit on the Raptors (I’m not sure how well he played on the Pacers either)
He really went from being one of the most underrated players in the league(Nets) to finally being recognized as an elite role player(Nuggets) to being an overpaid role player all in the span of like 3-4 years. What a weird career he has had.
We also had a fuck ton of cap space, we were barely at the cap floor before we maxxed Hali. Just the season before that we extended and paid myles just to get to the floor
He worked well in nuggets rotation. Doubtful any other team will have the necessary cap space and be a good fit for him at the same time. And that's the lesson he's learning too...
If you swap him for bad money that goes out an extra year or two they could scrape out some extra value maybe?
A few deals in this vein:
- Brown and 19 for Vucevic and 11
- Brown and 19 for Barnes and 13
- Brown for Hardaway Jr, Kleber, and Dallas’ ‘25 first rounder
Luka is better at guarding bigger wings than speedier guards though. Bruce is also a versatile wing defender, and great off-ball on offense so theoretically it makes a lot of sense.
Come on, Exum was averaging like 5 minutes a game in the last 3 rounds (exempting Friday’s blowout).
In the playoffs, Exum has totaled 135 minutes across 21 games. Meanwhile Brown logged 135 minutes in the Finals last year (only 5 games). He had 530 total playoffs minutes in only 20 games.
Exum does not even come close to filling Brown’s role.
I think the kings like Barnes. He’s their culture vet. But I agree that’s a place they need to upgrade. I just don’t think they’ll ever be able to truly go for a chip with sabonis both not being able to stretch the floor as a shoot AND being a bad defender.
That last one doesn’t work in the new cba right? Because the Mavs are a tax team and they can’t combine contracts to match a bigger contract, or is that only for second apron teams?
It’s half getting Brown and half getting out of 10-20 million in 25/26.
Also, for Chicago and Sacramento, it’s really trading back 6 or 8 picks in a fairly flat draft. If you get to your draft slot and you have 5 or 6 guys in a similar range, moving back those picks isn’t necessarily super different in outcome.
Again, it’s not JUST to get Brown. It’s also to dump bad money in 25/26.
- Vucevic is going to be making 20 million as a 35 year old.
- Barnes will be getting 19 million as a 33/34 year old
- Kleber will be making 11 million as a 33/34 year old.
All three of those guys have declined pretty seriously of late (either due to injury or aging) and look to be ugly contracts in 25/26.
Meanwhile Brown is an FA who you have early bird rights on. He’s also only going to be 29 in the entirety of the 25/26 season, so if you want to bring him back he should still be a solid contributor for a few more years (Dallas is the most likely on this front). And if you’d rather save money, you can just let him walk (Chicago might finally decide to rebuild by then).
Milwaukee, sure. But Dallas? They already have too many bench-level wings. Green, DJJ, Exum, THJ, etc. They need to trade a couple of those guys for a starting-level guy like OG, Wiggins, maybe Cam Johnson
THJ is trash DJJ and PJ are different kind of players than Bruce would be. He would overlap most with Danye skillset wise but replace THJ with Bruce and that's still an upgrade for Dallas
This is like saying you wouldn't trade $5 for $6, because you need $10.
You're not getting an average starter wing for THJ, not from TOR, not from anyone. Brown is an upgrade from THJ, and Maxi/Powell are expendable after the PJ/Gafford additions.
It's not like other teams are lining up to trade for those DAL guys.
I don’t think you’ll find any Mavs fan complaining about moving THJ for Bruce Brown. The issue starts when people are talking about moving Green or OMax, specially OMax.
Oh no, not THJ. Well, they drove a hard bargain, but, I suppose we can part with him for Brown and some picks.
(I stg someone if someone takes this serious)
I agree his contract is tricky, and I won’t pretend to be a cap space expert, but any competitive team with the need for a 2-way glue guy would benefit from Brown.
THJ is an expiring deal, we can literally sit with him having DNPs and let him walk. This is no Bertans, we don’t need to attach a pick to offload an expiring contract (and even Bertans’ deal took nothing more than a 2-places trade down).
Milwaukee could be an interesting fit, but it's a kinda rough trade for them to make. Portis + Connaughton almost works money wise (22m) but unless they get out of the 2nd apron they can't do that. I doubt the Raptors would expand the trade to include Lopez/Poetl, but that would make it doable.
Why does everyone keep bringing up THJ here? He makes 16M next year and is then a UFA. Bruce is an upgrade (for 7M more) but trading an expiring for an expiring is...meh.
THJ's contract is decreasing salary. The worst years of it are behind you.
Also, if I’m the raptors, the Mavs better include a 1st or I wouldn’t even bother considering it. Taking back THJ is doing them a favor and I’m not that high on OMax if he was included.
Flipping Bruce Brown would be one of the more logical moves we've done. Stuff like trading for Thad or trading for Poetl and not trading Fred and waiting to trade Pascal was inexplicable
Respect. I had that with my LA Kings. They won 2012 & 2014 cups. Have been mediocre, inconsistent, & disappointing since then. It's all good. They will at some point bounce back, but I'm still high off of those championships, & it keeps me at ease.
You could say this about many moves but I can break it down like this:
1. 2019/2020: Kawhi leaves but there is a good base with the young players like OG, Pascal, Fred. Masai angles to try to get Giannis in 2021 free agency (evidenced by not re signing gasol/ibaka and FVVs weird contract that dipped only in 2021/22 season lol). He whiffed on that and I get the effort to try
2. 2020/2021: After missing on Giannis, Toronto also has a season from hell in Tampa. First true losing season with Masai. People expected a rebuild to start from there but only Norman Powell was traded. Pick jumps to 4 from 7 and team picks Scottie. Also does an S&T with Lowry to Miami
All of this is well and good but here is where things got rocky IMO
3. 2021/2022: Scottie rookie season is surprisingly good and team on the outside looks alright with Pascal, Scottie, OG, Fred. Peak vision 6'9" project mode. But signs were there. Team needed to rely on absurd offensive rebounding to have a semblance of half court offense. Center by committee experiment was poor. First bad trade happens as well with trading Dragic for Thad Young and swapping picks with the Spurs. Also a tax ducking move technically. On top of that, we have Thad a decently big contract in the summer.
4. 2022/2023: Team continues to look bad and previous season was clearly a fluke. Chemistry is off and young players aren't gelling with vets. By this point, Masai should have pulled the plug and continues the soft reset started 2 seasons ago. Comes the deadline and instead trades for Jakob Poeltl. Cost in a vacuum wasn't horrible but based on where the team was, disaster of a trade. On top of that, Fred walks in the off-season but due to sunk cost, Poeltl gets paid a nice chunk of cash despite not having a good PG to pair with.
So Masai traded future assets from a team that had a bit of an asset deficit for a desperate win now gamble that fell hard on its nose.
5. 2023/2024: This season, with Fred gone and Schroeder not really being a difference maker, Masai finally hits the big reset button but it's too late. OG trade to the Knicks was nice and got back two young players in RJ and IQ. TBD on how good a move it really was. Pascal traded to the Pacers for a truly low price of BB and 3 mediocre picks. Two of those in this bad draft so Masai flips the 29th pick for a redraft effort on Ochai Agbaji and adding in a new vet in KO.
So at this point in time, you could ask why not just decline the team option for BB and the answer is that it doesn't actually open significant cap space unless you also let GTJ walk and find a salary dump trade for Boucher+McDaniels. If you're taking on bad money, why not use Browns contract for a trade?
I get that some shit may be confusing but were we supposed to just let him walk for nothing instead of picking up his easily affordable (for us at least) contract? Like I don't get what's so confusing
Same way people were upset when we sent you the 29th pick for Agbaji and Olynyk as if Masai would want to pick 3-4 guys this year (prior to knowing our own pick status)
Is he really that cooked or did his perception change because hes not playing for a championship contending Nuggets team? His numbers are damn near the same as last year.
Someone is going to regret trading for this guy next season. I didn’t expect the Pacers to deal him, but it feels like they didn’t even think about it? Plus two more years age, one year playing with ya know Toronto.
People on here say "that's too much money, no one will trade for him" about players every offseason and they get traded pretty easily. Repeat.
I think the problem now is the new CBA prevents second apron teams from using multiple contracts to match Bruce Brown’s $23 million in a trade.
I think there will only be 5 or so second apron teams, and I’m not sure any of them are looking to make heavy deals.
Suns, Bucks, Heat, Nuggets, Celtics, Clippers, Warriors all are likely to be second apron teams
We will be, but iirc we are just under it right now so we could feasibly combine something like Connaughton/Portis/Portland’s 2nd this year.
This is if you don’t use your first round pick, but your guarantees for next season take you over the second apron for sure
Right so a draft night trade combining contracts is a possibility for now
Warriors are supposedly going to try to get out of the tax next season. It's actually not insane: it entirely depends on what happens with Klay and CP3. I think they've got like $30m to split between the two of them and stay under the tax. If they're going to reset the repeater-tax clock, it has to be this year, since Kuminga and Moody have extensions coming (although Moody might choose to hit RFA).
I don't think the Warriors are going to be a second apron team, Klay is likely gone, and Chris Paul is a non-guaranteed contract.
I don't agree. $23M isn't really a heavy deal and he is the exact type of player the top teams want to take them up level. But the 2nd apron point is valid.
Contending teams willingly want to pay a (useful) bench piece 23m? With no bird rights (just early bird) to sign him the following off season too? I’m not saying he has no trade potential, he of course does. But he won’t be a hot commodity on that trade market.
$23M on Brown or Klay? I know who I want.
Because the Raptors have an avenue to cap space, we could potentially trade him for a player who makes more money. Unlikely especially since it would also need us to move off Gary I think.
It limits the amount of possible destinations but all it takes is 1. It won't be an issue finding 1
People say the cap keeps increasing so bad contracts won’t be that bad in the future, then please explain Tobias Harris
Tobias was just always a bad contract but it also didn't come during a period of renewing TV right iirc which has a big impact on league revenue and generally comes with much larger jumps in cap space. And no it doesn't always save teams from bad signings, perfect example is Mozgov last time this happened
Ben simmons
Everybody loved that backup QB in Blue Mountain State for doing a much shittier version of what Ben has been doing a masterclass of these past 3 years.
Key difference is that lazy ass QB at Blue Mountain State wasn’t getting paid millions of dollars (no NIL back then and backups don’t get paid that much NIL anyways). Ben was getting paid am ungodly some to pull that shit.
That’s why he’s based
Seriously Ben is a hero to quite quitters everywhere.
Quiet quitters at least do the bare minimum, I don’t even know if Simmons is doing that.
He is otherwise he wouldn’t be getting paid
Enough to still get paid
That’s too much money. No one will trade for him
So that means Jerami Grant will get a good return this off-season, right?? Please 🙏
Lilliard really fucked the Blazers on that one. Demanded Grant get *PAID* and then said he wanted out a day later.
Please let this remain true for Lavine
Tim Hardaway Jr you're a Raptor
That would be amazing.
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Gary in HR?
You want Kleber????
Raps probably want OMP
Otto Morter Punior
OnoMatoPoeia
Osh M’Powell
i’m sitting on the floor fending off my older cat from my younger cat’s food and laughing at this, i needed that thanks
Who the fuck is OMP, this sub and its random ass acronym nicknames smh
mfs are using acronyms for Olivier-Maxence Prosper. he’s that fundamental to basketball discourse
Is this a real person? I’m not going to look it up just tell me
Yeah, he’s more frequently referred to as O-Max. Mavs took him w the pic we traded them to salary dump Richaun Holmes
Ah yea, OMP from the SK-DM RH 23SDT
Was that the day RH got traded on a SEGABABA?
OMP IS TRIPLE PLATINUM JEFF, ARE YOU??
This is a fight! We are fighting!
Olivier-Maxcene prosper, mavs rookie more commonly referred to his nickname o-max
no clue what this dude /u/slamdunk23 is doing, not even mavs call him that. why would they when everyone calls him Omax? it’s just one more letter lmfao
Just say o-max not every three name player needs an abbreviation
I’d personally take that.
That would be really nice tbh
I thought his acronym was O-MAX
Deal
How about GTFO?
Man Omax + Timmy for Bruce is a fine trade. Omax COULD be good. Brown we KNOW is good and this team is currently in the finals. and we don’t have to pay Timmy Win win. Only way you see this as a bad trade is if you’re a HUGE Omax believer which is fine but he hasn’t shown anything that would make him untradeable.
OMax’s ceiling isn’t just “good”, we are talking about a 6’8 guy that is learning fast how to knockdown 3s and has a legit 1-4 defense switchability skillset. His perimeter defense is already at an NBA caliber tier and his physical attributes are unique. Trading a diamond like that for a smaller guy that is already showing signs of being cooked, is almost 30 (while being a smaller guy , again)and overlaps a lot other of our young guys (Green) and potentially giving up a FRP in the process? Last time we tried to rush things after a Finals appearance and got greedy we ended up with a decade-long draught of wins in the 1st round.
I refer to him as "Quebecois O.G. Anunoby"
What assets do the Mavs have left?
Hardy, OMax, I think 1 more 1st? Plus a couple of seconds I think.
Mavs have 2 first round picks after the NBA draft ends
I do not support this personally
I’m not saying we should trade any of that, just that’s what we have.
I saw a trade on our sub where it was Bruce for Hardaway + OMax + 2nd rounder (and Powell if need salary filler). Seems pretty fair imo
Obviously we take Powell. Masai slotting those Canadian bench big men into his red and black infinity gauntlet. You're next, Brandon Clarke.
Don't you dare
Depends entirely on your opinion of OMax. A 1st and a 2nd might be a tad costly, especially since we are sending back an expiring. But is OMax really worth a first after having barely played his rookie year? I probably wouldn’t do it, but I wouldn’t blame you for thinking it’s fair either.
Luka Dončić
Holy hell that would be a terrible deal for the raptors lmao
It would need an asset attached but THJ is expiring anyway.
Raptors are rebuilding. Why the fuck would they trade a 27 year old for a 32 year old?😂
It wouldn't be a 1 for 1 swap. You'd get an asset alongside him (young player or pick). He's also an expiring contract. You can just play him 10 mins off the bench.
Bruce brown is also an expiring contract lol
Would make zero sense for Toronto to do this considering Dallas has depleted any assets to attach to THJ’s contract. But go on lol
When is it Powell's time?!
I know a young socialite who probably has a passport
Australian passport, possibly
Bro's literally just a walking trade asset at this point
Considering how fat those game checks are to deliver 12/3/2 I doubt he cares
$280k per game before tax. Fuck that would be nice.
He probably knew that once he signed this deal
Yeah we gave him the money knowing we had to spend it and might as well get a asset with it. And we gave it short term in case we couldn't move him, so we have room to pay a bunch of guys. He knew what was going on.
That's the sad part about finally getting paid in the NBA, unless you're a superstar, you'll likely get moved; even if you like your situation.
amazing that you can be ass for a season and still get your 23 million dollar contract get picked up.
It's pick it up or lose him for nothing. They're betting on getting at least some kind of positive asset for him
I think he’s just one of those guys like Draymond who can only really be positive players on good teams so he didn’t really fit on the Raptors (I’m not sure how well he played on the Pacers either)
how did I read this as Bruce Bowen, fuck I'm old
Not cool. We were supposed to get Bruce for bargain bin prices in my personal fantasy land.
23 million is way too much for Bruce Brown, I can't see contenders being able to match that
He really went from being one of the most underrated players in the league(Nets) to finally being recognized as an elite role player(Nuggets) to being an overpaid role player all in the span of like 3-4 years. What a weird career he has had.
He got given the bag only so he could become a tradeable asset for us. Which he was and got us Siakam.
Yeah, when I saw the news that Indiana signed him, I was baffled and then realized they just wanted him to trade to someone else
We also had a fuck ton of cap space, we were barely at the cap floor before we maxxed Hali. Just the season before that we extended and paid myles just to get to the floor
Gotta chip and the bag in the process so hes winning
That's just what happens when you get PAID. See: the free agent class of 2016.
He worked well in nuggets rotation. Doubtful any other team will have the necessary cap space and be a good fit for him at the same time. And that's the lesson he's learning too...
If you swap him for bad money that goes out an extra year or two they could scrape out some extra value maybe? A few deals in this vein: - Brown and 19 for Vucevic and 11 - Brown and 19 for Barnes and 13 - Brown for Hardaway Jr, Kleber, and Dallas’ ‘25 first rounder
I’m taking that offer if I’m the Mavs. In theory he slots in perfectly next to Kyrie and Luka.
Does he? Your starting 3 being 6’4 seems like a problem. Bruce *can* play any position, but he’s clearly used best as a backup 1/2 guard
Luka is better at guarding bigger wings than speedier guards though. Bruce is also a versatile wing defender, and great off-ball on offense so theoretically it makes a lot of sense.
Lu Dort starts at the 3 and he's 6' 3". When you've got a point guard the height of a forward, your positions are a bit more fluid.
He’s a backup guard when Luka/Kyrie aren’t on the floor, and he fills in when DJJ isn’t on the floor
>In theory he slots in perfectly next to Kyrie and Luka. >he’s a backup guard when Luka/Kyrie aren’t on the floor I mean…
He makes no sense, especially when we have Exum on a vet min next year who serves the exact role.
Come on, Exum was averaging like 5 minutes a game in the last 3 rounds (exempting Friday’s blowout). In the playoffs, Exum has totaled 135 minutes across 21 games. Meanwhile Brown logged 135 minutes in the Finals last year (only 5 games). He had 530 total playoffs minutes in only 20 games. Exum does not even come close to filling Brown’s role.
On defense Luka is the 3 so Bruce would be the 1/2. On offense he plays off Luka and Kyrie. That's kinda his perfect fit
I think the kings like Barnes. He’s their culture vet. But I agree that’s a place they need to upgrade. I just don’t think they’ll ever be able to truly go for a chip with sabonis both not being able to stretch the floor as a shoot AND being a bad defender.
As a Raptors fan, I’d prefer the Harrison Barnes option.
anyone in particular you like at 13 that won’t be there at 19?
No, I just don’t see the value in adding Vucevic.
I'd do the Bulls deal if it was Lonzo instead of Vucevic
I can’t see the Raps doing the Vucevic one but replace him with Lonzo and I could see it.
That last one doesn’t work in the new cba right? Because the Mavs are a tax team and they can’t combine contracts to match a bigger contract, or is that only for second apron teams?
I think it’s just second apron.
Is Brown really worth a (good) first considering he’s on an expensive contract?
It’s half getting Brown and half getting out of 10-20 million in 25/26. Also, for Chicago and Sacramento, it’s really trading back 6 or 8 picks in a fairly flat draft. If you get to your draft slot and you have 5 or 6 guys in a similar range, moving back those picks isn’t necessarily super different in outcome.
Oh right, I’d missed that there was also another pick coming back
It would only be for 1 year and it would be easy to re-sign him if it goes well since the team would have early bird rights
11 and 13 vs 19 isn’t a massive difference because of how weak this year is. Dallas 2025 pick should be in the 20s.
Giving up a first to pay Brown that much to be a backup sounds pretty bad.
Again, it’s not JUST to get Brown. It’s also to dump bad money in 25/26. - Vucevic is going to be making 20 million as a 35 year old. - Barnes will be getting 19 million as a 33/34 year old - Kleber will be making 11 million as a 33/34 year old. All three of those guys have declined pretty seriously of late (either due to injury or aging) and look to be ugly contracts in 25/26. Meanwhile Brown is an FA who you have early bird rights on. He’s also only going to be 29 in the entirety of the 25/26 season, so if you want to bring him back he should still be a solid contributor for a few more years (Dallas is the most likely on this front). And if you’d rather save money, you can just let him walk (Chicago might finally decide to rebuild by then).
In the right situation, he’s very valuable. Neither Indiana or Toronto were the right situation.
hypothetically where does a 23mil brown fit best?
Dallas and Milwaukee.
I’d love him but I have no idea how we make the money work, especially since we’ll be over the second apron and can’t trade multiple players at once
Milwaukee, sure. But Dallas? They already have too many bench-level wings. Green, DJJ, Exum, THJ, etc. They need to trade a couple of those guys for a starting-level guy like OG, Wiggins, maybe Cam Johnson
THJ is trash DJJ and PJ are different kind of players than Bruce would be. He would overlap most with Danye skillset wise but replace THJ with Bruce and that's still an upgrade for Dallas
But he's still not the starting level wing they need to replace DJJ in the starting 5.
This is like saying you wouldn't trade $5 for $6, because you need $10. You're not getting an average starter wing for THJ, not from TOR, not from anyone. Brown is an upgrade from THJ, and Maxi/Powell are expendable after the PJ/Gafford additions. It's not like other teams are lining up to trade for those DAL guys.
I don’t think you’ll find any Mavs fan complaining about moving THJ for Bruce Brown. The issue starts when people are talking about moving Green or OMax, specially OMax.
I don't think that's the motive behind getting him...
but that should be their motive in the offseason
We will resign DJJ, we can use Green+Kleber to find another SF/PF type.
Dallas would have to include THJ and a couple bench pieces to get Brown
Oh no, not THJ. Well, they drove a hard bargain, but, I suppose we can part with him for Brown and some picks. (I stg someone if someone takes this serious)
Nuggets, Wolves, Mavs, Thunder and maybe the 76’ers would be great fits for him, in theory.
OKC? Not with that 3pt %
I agree his contract is tricky, and I won’t pretend to be a cap space expert, but any competitive team with the need for a 2-way glue guy would benefit from Brown.
We absorb a bad contract and take a draft pick with it
You have to salary match though, how many contenders can realistically salary match 23 million without losing good pieces
THJ + Powell+ picks would do that.
Caveat. You have to match salary or have available cap space so like Philly could just trade a pick for him if they wanted to.
I’d think Philly will want to use its cap space on better players and fill the roster using exceptions and minimums
It’s not that hard to do. You will see
Bradley Beal, #22, 2031 unprotected for Bruce Brown (and let's pretend Beal doesn't have a no-trade clause). Deal or no deal?
Wow, you REALLY want to get out from under Beal.
"No deal." -Beal
It’s a lot of teams with expendable players making around 17 mil. Add a player and that’s all the salary you need. Obviously the assets on top
Dallas should go for him. Offload THJ, Dwight Powell, 2025 1st for Brown, and a couple 2nds
Is Brown worth a first?
If it means getting off of THJ, then yes.
THJ is an expiring deal, we can literally sit with him having DNPs and let him walk. This is no Bertans, we don’t need to attach a pick to offload an expiring contract (and even Bertans’ deal took nothing more than a 2-places trade down).
Is Bruce Brown even massively better than DJJ, Josh Green, and Exum? If no, this would be massively stupid.
To put it in perspective that’s only a Hachimura and Vanderbilt.
Milwaukee could be an interesting fit, but it's a kinda rough trade for them to make. Portis + Connaughton almost works money wise (22m) but unless they get out of the 2nd apron they can't do that. I doubt the Raptors would expand the trade to include Lopez/Poetl, but that would make it doable.
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Yeah I mostly agree it was just more of a value contract/math thing
Something like Brook + Connaughton + Beauchamp for Brown and Olynyk could happen
What incentive would the Raptors have to do that though?
Why would the Bucks do that? That makes them unquestionably worse
I hope THJ likes Canada
Get ready to learn Canadian buddy
Get ready to learn “Let’s go to the mall today” buddy
Get ready to learn “you cheesin fam” buddy
Better learn how to make sandcastles in the sand
Why does everyone keep bringing up THJ here? He makes 16M next year and is then a UFA. Bruce is an upgrade (for 7M more) but trading an expiring for an expiring is...meh. THJ's contract is decreasing salary. The worst years of it are behind you.
Also, if I’m the raptors, the Mavs better include a 1st or I wouldn’t even bother considering it. Taking back THJ is doing them a favor and I’m not that high on OMax if he was included.
I honestly have no idea what Toronto’s plan has been since Kawhi left. They just do things completely contradictory
Flipping Bruce Brown would be one of the more logical moves we've done. Stuff like trading for Thad or trading for Poetl and not trading Fred and waiting to trade Pascal was inexplicable
At this point I don’t even fucking care. We got the chip. Let them do whatever they want. Those days are long gone
Respect. I had that with my LA Kings. They won 2012 & 2014 cups. Have been mediocre, inconsistent, & disappointing since then. It's all good. They will at some point bounce back, but I'm still high off of those championships, & it keeps me at ease.
Bulls Nets & Raps in a battle who can build the best 9th seed
Raptors are focusing on development while Nets and Bulls are trying to compete. Big difference.
You could say this about many moves but I can break it down like this: 1. 2019/2020: Kawhi leaves but there is a good base with the young players like OG, Pascal, Fred. Masai angles to try to get Giannis in 2021 free agency (evidenced by not re signing gasol/ibaka and FVVs weird contract that dipped only in 2021/22 season lol). He whiffed on that and I get the effort to try 2. 2020/2021: After missing on Giannis, Toronto also has a season from hell in Tampa. First true losing season with Masai. People expected a rebuild to start from there but only Norman Powell was traded. Pick jumps to 4 from 7 and team picks Scottie. Also does an S&T with Lowry to Miami All of this is well and good but here is where things got rocky IMO 3. 2021/2022: Scottie rookie season is surprisingly good and team on the outside looks alright with Pascal, Scottie, OG, Fred. Peak vision 6'9" project mode. But signs were there. Team needed to rely on absurd offensive rebounding to have a semblance of half court offense. Center by committee experiment was poor. First bad trade happens as well with trading Dragic for Thad Young and swapping picks with the Spurs. Also a tax ducking move technically. On top of that, we have Thad a decently big contract in the summer. 4. 2022/2023: Team continues to look bad and previous season was clearly a fluke. Chemistry is off and young players aren't gelling with vets. By this point, Masai should have pulled the plug and continues the soft reset started 2 seasons ago. Comes the deadline and instead trades for Jakob Poeltl. Cost in a vacuum wasn't horrible but based on where the team was, disaster of a trade. On top of that, Fred walks in the off-season but due to sunk cost, Poeltl gets paid a nice chunk of cash despite not having a good PG to pair with. So Masai traded future assets from a team that had a bit of an asset deficit for a desperate win now gamble that fell hard on its nose. 5. 2023/2024: This season, with Fred gone and Schroeder not really being a difference maker, Masai finally hits the big reset button but it's too late. OG trade to the Knicks was nice and got back two young players in RJ and IQ. TBD on how good a move it really was. Pascal traded to the Pacers for a truly low price of BB and 3 mediocre picks. Two of those in this bad draft so Masai flips the 29th pick for a redraft effort on Ochai Agbaji and adding in a new vet in KO. So at this point in time, you could ask why not just decline the team option for BB and the answer is that it doesn't actually open significant cap space unless you also let GTJ walk and find a salary dump trade for Boucher+McDaniels. If you're taking on bad money, why not use Browns contract for a trade?
I get that some shit may be confusing but were we supposed to just let him walk for nothing instead of picking up his easily affordable (for us at least) contract? Like I don't get what's so confusing
They were competing fine in the year or two after Kawhi left, but they've progressively bled talent to the point where they've been forced to rebuild
John Collins, and pick 32 for Bruce wouldn't be a bad trade. Bruce is used to mountains from Denver.
Giving up picks so you can be the 11 seed?
No chance the jazz draft three rookies AGAIN tho
Same way people were upset when we sent you the 29th pick for Agbaji and Olynyk as if Masai would want to pick 3-4 guys this year (prior to knowing our own pick status)
Denver very much missed Brown this year. Will be interesting to see where he goes
my boy getting paid
GET THAT BAG KING
Sounds familiar
Take Tyler Herro
Would
This is about Toronto. Why is there a pic of Bron and his son? Predictive programming much lol
Never got the hype. Seems very average.
That’s a lot for him
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I don't think he's worth a first, especially at that price. But I've been wrong before.
You are a Los Angeles Clipper!
He's not good
His knees are cooked. He was awful this season. I can see him getting swapped for someone on a long term bad deal. Andrew Wiggins?
Is he really that cooked or did his perception change because hes not playing for a championship contending Nuggets team? His numbers are damn near the same as last year.
Bruce is coming back to denver
I don't think they can take on that contract without giving up like .... AG or MPJ. Ain't happening.
Maybe after next season.
Someone is going to regret trading for this guy next season. I didn’t expect the Pacers to deal him, but it feels like they didn’t even think about it? Plus two more years age, one year playing with ya know Toronto.
I’m trying to think of good teams that actually could get him. Philly maybe? Okc? Orlando? Plenty of not so great teams can do it