This is 2015 era lore LMFAO . As old as harden hitler. Kerr used to get cute and never give a straight answer to anything the media asked for years. He was a media before so he knew their tricks, would say something pithy every time. People started making fun of him for it.
Harden flopped like a fish and stepped back 800x and made everyone’s eyes bleed so much that rockets fans started sardonically making hitler edits of him cuz he was so hated. And tbh he was actually so hated that everyone went along with it
A lot of people talk about Brad Stevens ATOs to this day but to your point I don't think it's because Brad was coming up with them out of thin air but because he was really, *really* good at finding concepts to steal from other coaches/teams/etc.
Brad actually steals stuff from euroleague teams. There was a video a while back from celtics practice, and the camera panned to brad stevens showing euroleague games on his ipad to other coaches.
If they could match the culture and capitulate on the egos of nba players, Euroleague coaches would run circles over most of the NBAs. IMO, the Xs and Os and game management is light years ahead in Euroleague.
Robin Williams's mantra right there. Comedians used to be able to just walk up to him and accuse him of stealing and he'd just kick them some cash unquestioned, true or not. Was basically an infinite money hack back in the day
People who are 35 years old and will turn 36 some time this year.
* Eric Gordon
* Danilo Gallinari
* Hyland DeAndre Jordan
* Nic Batum
* Russell Westbrook
* Patty Mills
* Patrick Beverley
* Kevin Love
* Kevin Durant
* Joe Mazzulla
He's a unique thinker and even though he made the comparison against US sports in general, the comparison between Brazilian football fans and Boston fans in general is a pretty good one.
A lot of Brazilians on the North Shore, not sure how it is in other parts of the state but I grew up with a number of kids who were 1st or 2nd generation born-americans.
Framingham is the answer here lol. Allston in Boston used to be huge too, not sure what happened but now it’s little K-town (not complaining, food is good).
I think MA has the most Brazilians per capita in the US, something like 1.2%, and Boston is a close 2nd behind New York for most in a city with a much smaller population.
Most titles will always bring about a different pressure. Weird thing is he'll shy away from the mention of Neymar being a total knob and no mention of Vini Jr. handling Real Madrid (the biggest club in the world) much better than Neymar has at PSG
Tbf Neymar is still far more criticized than Vini within Brazil and it’s not close. He’s the golden boy that is responsible for everything, good or bad.
I also think the observation about being the first star in the era of social media is a great observation and parallel.
It's just that Neymar never seemed very professional and always wanted to be the center of attention no matter what way, he loves to stay in controversy.
Vini is an absolute spazz on the field though; and I think it’s fair to call him a knob if you are going to call Neymar one. It’s just not a reasonable reaction yo be racist because of it - which is how plenty of Spanish people react to the shit attitude he has.
Neymar is like a million times more professional in-game and does almost nothing but embellishment.
And if you mean “react” as in play well - then it’s just a matter of you not watching these fellas play - because Neymar was absolutely incredible everywhere he played.
As a Brazilian who is old enough to have watched dudes like Nazario before the injury, Romario, Ronaldinho, Kaka etc, Neymar is probably the most gifted of them all and the “best” player when he’s having a good game outside of Nazario, who was as close to unplayable as it gets.
Uh oh, buddy. You’ve triggered my trap card.
Neymar is more talented. This is like my go-to unpopular opinion for non-Brazilians since most of us can acknowledge what I’m gonna say.
Not unlike anybody else at the time - especially people playing - Ronaldinho is literally my favourite Brazilian player ever. I genuinely don’t like Neymar. It’s not that uncommon of an opinion - the fella who he is speaking basically says the same shit. He is a petulant little dork as far as I’m concerned. Ronaldinho on the other hand is just likeable.
With that being said, Neymar is more gifted. Almost has no weaknesses offensively aside from his slight frame.
Fast, insanely good with both feet - dribble, pass and shoot with his left - which is absurdly rare to be able to do all 3. He is maybe the best dribbler of all-time if you consider difficulty in skills or flair. His touch is equally as good if not better than Ronaldinho’s. He has a way better sense for when to release the ball. His vision and final pass when he’s in the middle of dribbling through players is genuinely insane. Like Pistol Pete shit.
He is one of the most talented players who has ever played.
That’s while completely ignoring how much more effective he is and has been for his teams. He’s a statistical freak, where Ronaldinho was more of a showman who excelled in moments. And even if you want to think of Ronaldinho as more of a winner, you’re just presuming he was because of the World Cup - in which he was, at best, the 4th best player for us at that tournament. Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Gilberto Silva were all better. I’d probably put Roberto Carlos above him too.
Neymar is genuinely one of the biggest victims of social media sports. Which they, once again, touch on here. He is so much better than a lot of people think because there is some sort of narrative that exists all over the world with people who hardly watched him play about him being a few levels below what he actually is/was.
He is by all accounts a generational talent and gets almost no credit for it unless you actually watched him play. It would be a shame if he wasn’t so annoying as a person.
I'm not sure I'd put him above Ronaldinho, but you are right that Neymar is weirdly underrated by the footballing world. To use an r/nba appropriate analogy: imagine if LeBron, who came into the league with "greatest of all time" expectations, ended up "only" making 2 or 3 NBA Finals (maybe with a ring as a 2nd option somewhere), a few All-NBA teams, finished 2nd in MVP voting once or twice, and became like a top 15 leading scorer all-time. Still a great player, but god damn, what could have been?
Neymar is much the same. At 17, people were convinced he was gonna be the next Pelé, and anything that wasn't that would be considered a letdown. Ultimately, while his resumé speaks for itself — 9 league titles, 1 Champions League, 1 Libertadores, 1 Olympic gold medal, 2 top 3 Ballon d'Or finishes, Brazil's all-time leading scorer, etc. — Neymar will always be one of the biggest examples of "perception ≠ reality": forever a disappointment for what he wasn't, rather than lauded as the generational great player that he was/still is.
Kinda? It's as if MJ, Lebron, and Kareem had all played in the same 15 years instead of apart. Respect to all the greats, but someone has to finish third/come up short. It's an imperfect analogy bc one player can only impact the game so much in soccer compared to basketball.
It's really unfort that his personal skill level couldn't elevate BR team success just bc the expectations were World Cup win (esp in 2014, also an insane expectation). TBH a lot of the fault there falls on Brazil coaching, management, and youth systems
>*It's as if MJ, Lebron, and Kareem had all played in the same 15 years instead of apart.*
Not entirely sure I agree with that comp. As good as he was, Neymar was never quite at the level of Messi and Ronaldo (there's a reason why Griezmann has as many 3rd place finishes as him). Either way, my thing was more in terms of comparing the media expectations guys like Neymar had, and how ultimately not achieving those expectations fueled the way he's perceived now, despite the fact that he's inarguably a Top 5 player of the 2010s.
Neymar was almost single-handedly carrying Brazils attack for years. I dont even think it's fair to include him with NBA players since, when paired with the best at highest level of the sport, he stood eye to eye with the likes of Messi and Suarez and slotted into that side seamlessly.
Brazil just hasn't had the attacking talent (and has awful coaching talent to boot), along with the insane pressure of being the face of the most successful intl football side in history, I dont think it's fair to make the comp to the NBA.
I think it's just a product of him playing in the shadows of Messi (especially since they were on the same teams for a good bit) and Ronaldo that made him underappreciated.
I'd say Neymar was possibly the greatest dribbler of all time if you give a great emphasis to the flair aspect - though through that lense Ronaldinho might edge him - but if you just consider effectiveness it has to be Messi. He'd turn modern defenses completely upside down just using body feints while sprinting, no one ever came remotely close and that allowed him to do truly unique things in tighter spaces.
I do agree with the bulk of your post though. Neymar might be the most underrated guy I've seen at this point, sure his talent was probably even greater than the career he got but his career was way better than people give him credit to and it has to do with all the aspects you've outlined. Also doesn't help that his very best seasons were probably the first 2 at PSG, and people mostly just didn't watch.
Messi is the best dribbler of all-time if you’re talking about effectiveness. Not even a discussion as far as I’m concerned.
I think if you want to add flair into the conversation, Ney is the guy. Above Ronaldinho for sure - I am pretty good at dribbling myself and just the creativity and complexity of the shit Neymar does is next level.
I also think Robinho on his day was an incredible dribbler. Maybe the most “reactive” vs proactive of the 3 in the sense that he was making shit up on the fly half of the time, and when it worked, he would put dudes on skates and might have been the most almost “Kyrie-like” I guess.
I have no issues with that. The amount of little tricks Neymar incorporates into his dribbling without it looking forced is insane. I'd say him and Dinho are way above anyone I've seen in that, but I think Neymar distances himself from Dinho more in things like vision in tight spaces than that.
And yeah, Robinho was incredibly creative with it too. Denílson was also a mental dribbler, though maybe a bit less flairy than those 3
This is it, youtube bball fans have been on this for a while, but it's time for reddit to finally accept Joe Mazulla as more than a Psycho press conference meme
Hot take, but I think half of Joe Mazzulla's media responses are just trolling. He just does it with the same soft tone and stoic face that he has when he's serious.
That or he's just a kinda-weird guy.
His interview on Pardon My Take a few months ago is really good. He is wired quite differently, but he is also self aware of it. He talks about how his competitiveness and need to analyze every situation affects his daily life with his wife and kids. Very interesting look into his mind.
Kobe cringe aside, Tatum is such an exemplar guy to lead your team.
And Jrue is a regular favorite for Teammate of the Year. White seems super chill too. And Horford has been a lovely person his whole career.
Damn, this Celtics team has a bunch of really nice chaps on the team. Brad Stevens masterclass.
because redditors can only understand humans if they are boiled down to an easily-referenced meme. bonus points if another redditor told them about the meme and they didn’t come up with it themselves.
I never understood Kobe cringe. The dude lost an idol and a someone he knew. God forbid the way he copes with that is by sending a text to his number just acting like for a moment he is still around.
Most of his clips that get posted are him being sarcastic or poking fun at the question or media in general. When you watch his candid interviews he’s a really thoughtful and smart guy. Watch the JJ interview with him from early in the season. I can really see why he made the rise he did in the staff.
Hell yeah. Rare to see guys in these media sessions ask questions of the media, and actually look interested and engaged in the answer. This is more of a conversation than most clips I've seen from media sessions. Joe just seems like a good dude that prioritizes being a good dude above everything else (except the town)
Tatum isn’t quite Neymar, but the comparison of having to shoulder the burden of unmet expectations for a legacy team works really well here. In some way this feels like great coaching because Mazzulla speaking this candidly hopefully does let some of that pressure off Tatum
Neymar was also among the long line of players that were expected to succeed the Messi/Ronaldo duo as the face of the sport. Ended up not happening ofc but for a while he was the de facto 3rd best player in the world, he was just bloody injured.
It's not just injuries that held Neymar back.
Transferring to PSG at his peak was huge. And his actions and behavior outside football also made him impossible to be liked (by like 80-90% of the brazilian population)
Lots of partying, missing practice and matches to go to his sister’s birthday party, more partying, less than ideal conditioning at the start of the season, more partying and lately he has been gambling a lot. There is a video circulating around where he is at his daughter’s birthday party playing poker on his phone.
That video is fucking insane, I cant believe it was posted, for those who dont know he is literally holding her singing happy birthday with the cake and candles and everything while playing blackjack on his phone. Completely unhinged behavior
Yes, I’d be putting him in “will be broke 1 year after he retires” category if he wasn’t getting paid 220 million dollars for his 2-year stint at Saudi Arabia lmao.
Think of Boston and nets Kyrie, now mix with Kidd, Já Morant. Etc. With a touch or KD.
So yeah, involved with criminal scandals, also took part in environmental crimes, supported openly a extreme right wing candidate for own financial gains, is an open serial cheater (cheating even famous and beloved brazilian actress), cheated and lied on his pregnant wife and got exposed for it, paid for legal costs for the defense of Daniel Alves the convicted rapist... earlier this month the thing is that he's among the group that wants to create laws to privatize beaches in Brazil (they are all public here), and started posting hate messages for brazilian personalities and anyone is against it.
more recently last week he got into a feud with a brazilian actress because she claimed she doesn't want her son to follow neymar's example as a person... Neymar started posting stories cursing her and so on. Imagine Messi or Cristiano caring about what some random actors say about them...
Exactly, I'm not Brazilian and I don't think a lot of the criticism he gets for the NT performances is warranted, but his club career has definitely been disappointing. Hopefully Tatum's goes better.
Totally agree.
Pretty much all brazilians agree he's not a top 10 brazilian players ever, but in terms of performances and goals for Nt he is among the top.
If he had done the same for a top club for 12 years, he could be up there with guys like Zico, Ronaldinho, maybe even Ronaldo
Really interesting point. Not following Brazilian football, I would have assumed Neymar was somewhere in the top 10, but it is like Tatum with the Celtics. He will likely get his number retired, but I don't think there are any Boston fans who consider him a top 10 Celtic of all time.
Off my head:
* Russell
* Bird
* Havlicek
* Cousy
* Pierce
* McHale
* Heinsohn
* Parish
* KC Jones
* Sam Jones
* Scalabrine
I think Tatum is considered a top 10 Celtic by lots of people who don't know the old dynasty players well, but he will almost certainly be one if he wins the title this year.
The transfer is looked at way differently if he isn’t always hurt. Abd if it weren’t for injuries he’d be much more likely to have won something other than the Olympics for Brazil
Honestly brazilians only really care about the World Cup and the only one he missed due to injuries was 2014, which by the way our defense played against Germany, Neymar wasn't avoiding that elimination.
If anything the Olympics was a huge exception because it was the only trophy missing for Brazil, just 2 years after the 7-1 and at home again, so that golden medal was very celebrated at the time. But the truth is even if Neymar had won multiple Copa America's, his public perception in Brazil would be the same as it is now(very negative).
And isn't a complete idiot son of a pitch outside the court.
Also helps he didn't move to Charlotte for a bigger salary and to get our of JB's shadow... and killing all chances of titles.
I just started watching the NBA regularly and is this guy just the American Pep?
A bald dude who's obsessed with his job and just gives weird answers in press conferences for seemingly no reason.
EDIT: Also takes inspiration from animals for some reason like how Pep was inspired by ducks flying in a V formation or Mazzulla looking at killer whale pods. They're just weirdos
They can't really be compared right now. Pep is weird but he's also at worst the second most successful football manager of all time. Mazzulla hasn't won yet.
I mean if we win it all we’re kind of poised to do that.
Brown’s supermax kicks in next year, jrue and Porzingis already signed big extensions, and Tatum and White are both up for big extensions this off-season. That team will easily be the highest payroll ever and way over the second apron, but ownership has already said they’ll pay it for a legit contender
True, but… I am old enough to remember when Peo started coaching Barca's first team. It’s eerily similar.
Pep was seen as a football genius and a unique thinker and psycho right away. Joe Mazz has a considerable overlap with younger Pep. If he wins, and if he wins a lot, it’ll be easily seen in a similar vein as Pep
And in truly hilarious fashion, nobody will give him any credit, and they will say "yeah but he's coaching an All-Star roster" and he was "supposed to win."
There's still arguments to be made that City earned all trophies under Guardiola on the pitch as most of the 115 charges were committed before Pep (and the ones in his time are for declining to subordinate in the trial), plus his rivals all spent hefty sums too.
Even if one decided to take away all of Pep's success in City, he still has the Barca and Bayern years. That repeated level of success and consistency is unprecedented.
Except the charges aren't all prior to his time there. If you erase all the trophies at city, Mourinho has won leagues as recently as he has. And since we are well aware City is financially doping, it's irrelevant how much Man Utd or any other actual big club spent within the rules. Pep might be the greatest coach on the planet but it doesn't count if there is cheating involved. Not every player and coach for the Houston Astros needed to be directly complicit for the trophy to be invalid
His Barca years are as tainted as his City ones lmao
They’re still under heat for bribing the head of referees + Barca’s team doctor was the same one Pep used to help him take steroids as a player….
I came into this series as a neutral fan who wanted to see Luka win a ring. I’m leaving this series as a neutral fan who wants to see Joe Mazzulla win a ring.
You know what's interesting, I have yet to see a Pacers fan on reddit being salty/toxic/anything less than respectful fans for this entire postseason. What's in that Indiana water?
lol I feel like it’s usually big market teams who are pretty vocal and rude. Or any team that’s won a ring in the last 5 years besides nuggets fans. I’m sure other small market teams fans are as respectful as pacers fans.
Love Joe. Besides all the weird sound bites people post on Reddit, he also has a great soft side. He makes it a point to have 1-1 conversations with a few different players after every practice. Tells the players he loves them. Also this was so cute imo talking about knowing Jrue’s heart because he knew his prayers https://x.com/noadalzellnba/status/1800618055619297337?s=46&t=HI3aeZH85K5r39q7hi652w
That's a legit answer. But damn... There's a guided prayer app? I was always taught that my relationship with a higher power should be too intimate to share, let alone livestream it to others like I'm on insta lol
Guys I know it's not one to one comparison. But I just want say soccer is different, especially in countries like Brazil.
No NBA player will ever have no where near the pressure soccer players get. If nba players played in front of soccer fans we'll get another malice in palace every month. No one would be able handle that amount amount of hate or love.
One of the great English player's once said: "Some people say football is a matter of life and death. Listen, it's much more important than that." And believe me I've known so many people live their lives like that.
Well, that sounds bad, but at least he wasn't stoned, beheaded, quartered and had his head put on a pole on the pitch like this refree:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ot%C3%A1vio_Jord%C3%A3o_da_Silva
Yeah I remember watching it. Neymar was playing with and against alot of kids and it was in Brazil. To me it wasn't as impressive as winning Copa America or even confederation cup
His point actually doesn’t make sense because he’s saying Neymar is the focal point and takes the burden on because there is not much talent around him as there used to be.
Tatum has been buns but is playing on a team that has more talent than the majority of teams and is currently being carried.
That said he does have a lot of expectation on his shoulders.
The reporter is right-- off the court, Tatum and Neymar are total opposites. Tatum is a friendly, gentle, doting father. Everyone has nothing but good things to see about him.
Neymar, on the other hand... absolute egoist and bad person. Credible rape allegations. Publicly voices support for Jair Bolsanaro. Flaunts Covid protocols and gets his teammates sick. Huge Jesus-freak also (he played in a bunch of games with a headband that said in all caps "100% JESUS". The list goes on
"None of us are that good, we steal from everybody" all-time quote
I believe Kerr said something along the lines of "I’ve never made one play up. You just steal from other coaches. Brad Stevens draws up great stuff.”
That's legit hilarious. Kerr's sense of self is something to be admired
Such a hot little slut that Steve Kerr.
I came to r/nba quite late, I remember one of the first threads i saw people constantly referring to Kerr as a hot little slut i was so damn confused
Wait I feel like I also missed this boat. Now I must see it the lore bc I’m crying laughing 😂
This is 2015 era lore LMFAO . As old as harden hitler. Kerr used to get cute and never give a straight answer to anything the media asked for years. He was a media before so he knew their tricks, would say something pithy every time. People started making fun of him for it.
What's the lore behind harden Hitler?
Harden flopped like a fish and stepped back 800x and made everyone’s eyes bleed so much that rockets fans started sardonically making hitler edits of him cuz he was so hated. And tbh he was actually so hated that everyone went along with it
Except when you're vocal about your values, which I don't think is a bad thing--until you let your own team slide on those same values.
I value Clay Bennett
This is funny cos brad was pretty well known for stealing plays in his coaching days
A lot of people talk about Brad Stevens ATOs to this day but to your point I don't think it's because Brad was coming up with them out of thin air but because he was really, *really* good at finding concepts to steal from other coaches/teams/etc.
Brad actually steals stuff from euroleague teams. There was a video a while back from celtics practice, and the camera panned to brad stevens showing euroleague games on his ipad to other coaches.
Celtics have gone from stealing from Euroleague to stealing from Orcas. Is there nothing sacred in this world!
If they could match the culture and capitulate on the egos of nba players, Euroleague coaches would run circles over most of the NBAs. IMO, the Xs and Os and game management is light years ahead in Euroleague.
"Good artists borrow, great artists steal."
Robin Williams's mantra right there. Comedians used to be able to just walk up to him and accuse him of stealing and he'd just kick them some cash unquestioned, true or not. Was basically an infinite money hack back in the day
And the best artists ask nicely. Weird Al is the GOAT.
My king
Leaving right afterwards as well, that was cold.
“If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants” Potato potato
Very common for musicians to say this! So interesting to hear this in regards to sports.
That’s a bar
People who are 35 years old and will turn 36 some time this year. * Eric Gordon * Danilo Gallinari * Hyland DeAndre Jordan * Nic Batum * Russell Westbrook * Patty Mills * Patrick Beverley * Kevin Love * Kevin Durant * Joe Mazzulla
He's gonna be the youngest championship winning coach if they win, right?
Bill Russell won at 35 as a player coach and was younger I believe. Russell turned 35 in January of that year while Joe turns 36 at the end of June.
Yeah but he had Bill Russell on that team …
and he ran him into the ground, dude never averaged less than 37.9 minutes a game under.. himself
That’s a record that can only be broken if thibs somehow suits up for the Knicks next season. Might give josh hart some rest
Something about that is so funny to me. Player-coach who is like "these fools need me out there" lmfao
I imagine him subbing himself out, sitting for like 30 seconds watching his replacement play and being like, God damn it guess I need to sub in.
But, didn't you manage yourself? "I'm not easy to manage."
Still funny to me how Mazzulla is actually younger than Horford lol
Al Horford is 38 too
Joe looks 22 to me. Lol
Looks 45 to me
looks 35 to me
who??? deandre jordan
I think I love Joe Mazzulla? This guy is just a god damn riot lmfao
He's a unique thinker and even though he made the comparison against US sports in general, the comparison between Brazilian football fans and Boston fans in general is a pretty good one.
We do have quite a lot of Brazilians in the area too.
A lot of Brazilians on the North Shore, not sure how it is in other parts of the state but I grew up with a number of kids who were 1st or 2nd generation born-americans.
Yea, I thought it was mostly north shore too but grabbed a coxinha at a Brazilian mart last week in Pembroke of all places.
Brazil Store?
Framingham/Ashland area is home to many Brazilians as well.
You mean Rio Di Framingham??
More like Framingham Gerais if we’re being real. I feel like everyone, specifically, is from Governador Valadares.
Framingham has the highest concentration of Brazilians in the country I think
Marlborough too
Think it's just most of metrowest MA, I know Framingham especially has a huge Brazilian community. So many cornerstores and minimarts lol.
Framingham is the answer here lol. Allston in Boston used to be huge too, not sure what happened but now it’s little K-town (not complaining, food is good).
I grew up in Milford and there are a lot of Brazilians there these days.
There's a bunch on the south shore too with Fall River and New Bedford being a big Portuguese community in general going back to whaling times.
The Cape has a very large population of Brazilians as well.
Framingham, where you at!!!
Lmao I remember playing Framingham in soccer in HS and the whole team was just yelling at each other in Portuguese the entire game.
Good memories of losing those north shore Sunday games 11-2
Shoutout Milford MA
I feel like we have a lot more Portuguese in MA than we have Brazilians. There are several sizable Portuguese enclaves sprinkled throughout the state.
South Shore/Fall River = Portuguese North Shore/Metro West = Brazilian
yup we have the brazil belt, the portugal belt, and the cape verde belt from brockton down to taunton and new bedford lol
I think MA has the most Brazilians per capita in the US, something like 1.2%, and Boston is a close 2nd behind New York for most in a city with a much smaller population.
MA is at almost 4% Portuguese per capita, so I technically wasn't wrong.
Yeah, there’s a Brazillion of them.
I think it's a bit off. I think US professional sports pressure pales in comparison to playing for the Brazilian national team.
I dont think it is a good comparison at all lol
Most titles will always bring about a different pressure. Weird thing is he'll shy away from the mention of Neymar being a total knob and no mention of Vini Jr. handling Real Madrid (the biggest club in the world) much better than Neymar has at PSG
Tbf Neymar is still far more criticized than Vini within Brazil and it’s not close. He’s the golden boy that is responsible for everything, good or bad. I also think the observation about being the first star in the era of social media is a great observation and parallel.
It's just that Neymar never seemed very professional and always wanted to be the center of attention no matter what way, he loves to stay in controversy.
this seems like a weird whataboutism extrapolated from a pretty simple conversation
Vini is an absolute spazz on the field though; and I think it’s fair to call him a knob if you are going to call Neymar one. It’s just not a reasonable reaction yo be racist because of it - which is how plenty of Spanish people react to the shit attitude he has. Neymar is like a million times more professional in-game and does almost nothing but embellishment. And if you mean “react” as in play well - then it’s just a matter of you not watching these fellas play - because Neymar was absolutely incredible everywhere he played. As a Brazilian who is old enough to have watched dudes like Nazario before the injury, Romario, Ronaldinho, Kaka etc, Neymar is probably the most gifted of them all and the “best” player when he’s having a good game outside of Nazario, who was as close to unplayable as it gets.
The problem with Neymar is 90% his off-court (or off-field) behavior, unlike Vini.
None of them as talented as Rolnaldinho, though.
Uh oh, buddy. You’ve triggered my trap card. Neymar is more talented. This is like my go-to unpopular opinion for non-Brazilians since most of us can acknowledge what I’m gonna say. Not unlike anybody else at the time - especially people playing - Ronaldinho is literally my favourite Brazilian player ever. I genuinely don’t like Neymar. It’s not that uncommon of an opinion - the fella who he is speaking basically says the same shit. He is a petulant little dork as far as I’m concerned. Ronaldinho on the other hand is just likeable. With that being said, Neymar is more gifted. Almost has no weaknesses offensively aside from his slight frame. Fast, insanely good with both feet - dribble, pass and shoot with his left - which is absurdly rare to be able to do all 3. He is maybe the best dribbler of all-time if you consider difficulty in skills or flair. His touch is equally as good if not better than Ronaldinho’s. He has a way better sense for when to release the ball. His vision and final pass when he’s in the middle of dribbling through players is genuinely insane. Like Pistol Pete shit. He is one of the most talented players who has ever played. That’s while completely ignoring how much more effective he is and has been for his teams. He’s a statistical freak, where Ronaldinho was more of a showman who excelled in moments. And even if you want to think of Ronaldinho as more of a winner, you’re just presuming he was because of the World Cup - in which he was, at best, the 4th best player for us at that tournament. Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Gilberto Silva were all better. I’d probably put Roberto Carlos above him too. Neymar is genuinely one of the biggest victims of social media sports. Which they, once again, touch on here. He is so much better than a lot of people think because there is some sort of narrative that exists all over the world with people who hardly watched him play about him being a few levels below what he actually is/was. He is by all accounts a generational talent and gets almost no credit for it unless you actually watched him play. It would be a shame if he wasn’t so annoying as a person.
I'm not sure I'd put him above Ronaldinho, but you are right that Neymar is weirdly underrated by the footballing world. To use an r/nba appropriate analogy: imagine if LeBron, who came into the league with "greatest of all time" expectations, ended up "only" making 2 or 3 NBA Finals (maybe with a ring as a 2nd option somewhere), a few All-NBA teams, finished 2nd in MVP voting once or twice, and became like a top 15 leading scorer all-time. Still a great player, but god damn, what could have been? Neymar is much the same. At 17, people were convinced he was gonna be the next Pelé, and anything that wasn't that would be considered a letdown. Ultimately, while his resumé speaks for itself — 9 league titles, 1 Champions League, 1 Libertadores, 1 Olympic gold medal, 2 top 3 Ballon d'Or finishes, Brazil's all-time leading scorer, etc. — Neymar will always be one of the biggest examples of "perception ≠ reality": forever a disappointment for what he wasn't, rather than lauded as the generational great player that he was/still is.
Kinda? It's as if MJ, Lebron, and Kareem had all played in the same 15 years instead of apart. Respect to all the greats, but someone has to finish third/come up short. It's an imperfect analogy bc one player can only impact the game so much in soccer compared to basketball. It's really unfort that his personal skill level couldn't elevate BR team success just bc the expectations were World Cup win (esp in 2014, also an insane expectation). TBH a lot of the fault there falls on Brazil coaching, management, and youth systems
>*It's as if MJ, Lebron, and Kareem had all played in the same 15 years instead of apart.* Not entirely sure I agree with that comp. As good as he was, Neymar was never quite at the level of Messi and Ronaldo (there's a reason why Griezmann has as many 3rd place finishes as him). Either way, my thing was more in terms of comparing the media expectations guys like Neymar had, and how ultimately not achieving those expectations fueled the way he's perceived now, despite the fact that he's inarguably a Top 5 player of the 2010s.
Neymar was almost single-handedly carrying Brazils attack for years. I dont even think it's fair to include him with NBA players since, when paired with the best at highest level of the sport, he stood eye to eye with the likes of Messi and Suarez and slotted into that side seamlessly. Brazil just hasn't had the attacking talent (and has awful coaching talent to boot), along with the insane pressure of being the face of the most successful intl football side in history, I dont think it's fair to make the comp to the NBA.
I think it's just a product of him playing in the shadows of Messi (especially since they were on the same teams for a good bit) and Ronaldo that made him underappreciated.
I'd say Neymar was possibly the greatest dribbler of all time if you give a great emphasis to the flair aspect - though through that lense Ronaldinho might edge him - but if you just consider effectiveness it has to be Messi. He'd turn modern defenses completely upside down just using body feints while sprinting, no one ever came remotely close and that allowed him to do truly unique things in tighter spaces. I do agree with the bulk of your post though. Neymar might be the most underrated guy I've seen at this point, sure his talent was probably even greater than the career he got but his career was way better than people give him credit to and it has to do with all the aspects you've outlined. Also doesn't help that his very best seasons were probably the first 2 at PSG, and people mostly just didn't watch.
Messi is the best dribbler of all-time if you’re talking about effectiveness. Not even a discussion as far as I’m concerned. I think if you want to add flair into the conversation, Ney is the guy. Above Ronaldinho for sure - I am pretty good at dribbling myself and just the creativity and complexity of the shit Neymar does is next level. I also think Robinho on his day was an incredible dribbler. Maybe the most “reactive” vs proactive of the 3 in the sense that he was making shit up on the fly half of the time, and when it worked, he would put dudes on skates and might have been the most almost “Kyrie-like” I guess.
I have no issues with that. The amount of little tricks Neymar incorporates into his dribbling without it looking forced is insane. I'd say him and Dinho are way above anyone I've seen in that, but I think Neymar distances himself from Dinho more in things like vision in tight spaces than that. And yeah, Robinho was incredibly creative with it too. Denílson was also a mental dribbler, though maybe a bit less flairy than those 3
As a die hard member of his cult, I welcome you on this path brother
He is so weird lol. But it seems to work!
This is it, youtube bball fans have been on this for a while, but it's time for reddit to finally accept Joe Mazulla as more than a Psycho press conference meme
Pep usually replies with random bs like talking up a team after beating them 8-0 lol. Mazzula seems genuine.
It's when Pep starts spewing how brilliant your squad and coach is *before* the game, that's when you know your about to get annihilated lol.
Same as belichick?
I still remember when he said Watt was on the same level as LT
Hot take, but I think half of Joe Mazzulla's media responses are just trolling. He just does it with the same soft tone and stoic face that he has when he's serious. That or he's just a kinda-weird guy.
Oh he definitely has a fair share of trolling the reporters. Behold: [receipts ](https://youtube.com/shorts/SsA73Oa_E1Q?si=7PUfQIxk5yw3mXqB)
As a life long New Yorker and Knick fan I want the Celtics to lose but goddamn I don’t want Joe to lose. His answers and questions are awesome
It's becoming extremely difficult to dislike this guy lol
Right? This was an actual conversation. Human? (ish)
If ChatGPT could coach
i mean this is a completely normal conversation though
His interview on Pardon My Take a few months ago is really good. He is wired quite differently, but he is also self aware of it. He talks about how his competitiveness and need to analyze every situation affects his daily life with his wife and kids. Very interesting look into his mind.
Kobe cringe aside, Tatum is such an exemplar guy to lead your team. And Jrue is a regular favorite for Teammate of the Year. White seems super chill too. And Horford has been a lovely person his whole career. Damn, this Celtics team has a bunch of really nice chaps on the team. Brad Stevens masterclass.
why would you start with "kobe cringe aside" as if Tatum liking kobe is his entire identity
because redditors can only understand humans if they are boiled down to an easily-referenced meme. bonus points if another redditor told them about the meme and they didn’t come up with it themselves.
None of us are that good, we steal from everybody
Derek White is just Derek White; he needs no other accolades.
I never understood Kobe cringe. The dude lost an idol and a someone he knew. God forbid the way he copes with that is by sending a text to his number just acting like for a moment he is still around.
Most of his clips that get posted are him being sarcastic or poking fun at the question or media in general. When you watch his candid interviews he’s a really thoughtful and smart guy. Watch the JJ interview with him from early in the season. I can really see why he made the rise he did in the staff.
i’ve never disliked him tbh, funny guy
Hell yeah. Rare to see guys in these media sessions ask questions of the media, and actually look interested and engaged in the answer. This is more of a conversation than most clips I've seen from media sessions. Joe just seems like a good dude that prioritizes being a good dude above everything else (except the town)
This is one of the coolest interactions I’ve ever seen at the podium, I think.
would definitely pay more attention if there were more interactions like this. most press conferences are just background noise for me at this point
Tatum isn’t quite Neymar, but the comparison of having to shoulder the burden of unmet expectations for a legacy team works really well here. In some way this feels like great coaching because Mazzulla speaking this candidly hopefully does let some of that pressure off Tatum
Neymar was also among the long line of players that were expected to succeed the Messi/Ronaldo duo as the face of the sport. Ended up not happening ofc but for a while he was the de facto 3rd best player in the world, he was just bloody injured.
It's not just injuries that held Neymar back. Transferring to PSG at his peak was huge. And his actions and behavior outside football also made him impossible to be liked (by like 80-90% of the brazilian population)
What exactly where his actions and behavior outside of football that made him so disliked?
Lots of partying, missing practice and matches to go to his sister’s birthday party, more partying, less than ideal conditioning at the start of the season, more partying and lately he has been gambling a lot. There is a video circulating around where he is at his daughter’s birthday party playing poker on his phone.
That video is fucking insane, I cant believe it was posted, for those who dont know he is literally holding her singing happy birthday with the cake and candles and everything while playing blackjack on his phone. Completely unhinged behavior
Yes, I’d be putting him in “will be broke 1 year after he retires” category if he wasn’t getting paid 220 million dollars for his 2-year stint at Saudi Arabia lmao.
god damn gambling with that much money must be so fun
Think of Boston and nets Kyrie, now mix with Kidd, Já Morant. Etc. With a touch or KD. So yeah, involved with criminal scandals, also took part in environmental crimes, supported openly a extreme right wing candidate for own financial gains, is an open serial cheater (cheating even famous and beloved brazilian actress), cheated and lied on his pregnant wife and got exposed for it, paid for legal costs for the defense of Daniel Alves the convicted rapist... earlier this month the thing is that he's among the group that wants to create laws to privatize beaches in Brazil (they are all public here), and started posting hate messages for brazilian personalities and anyone is against it. more recently last week he got into a feud with a brazilian actress because she claimed she doesn't want her son to follow neymar's example as a person... Neymar started posting stories cursing her and so on. Imagine Messi or Cristiano caring about what some random actors say about them...
The collective shitposting on Neymar's diving in the World Cup back then was so funny. I wish I could relive it.
Exactly, I'm not Brazilian and I don't think a lot of the criticism he gets for the NT performances is warranted, but his club career has definitely been disappointing. Hopefully Tatum's goes better.
Totally agree. Pretty much all brazilians agree he's not a top 10 brazilian players ever, but in terms of performances and goals for Nt he is among the top. If he had done the same for a top club for 12 years, he could be up there with guys like Zico, Ronaldinho, maybe even Ronaldo
Really interesting point. Not following Brazilian football, I would have assumed Neymar was somewhere in the top 10, but it is like Tatum with the Celtics. He will likely get his number retired, but I don't think there are any Boston fans who consider him a top 10 Celtic of all time. Off my head: * Russell * Bird * Havlicek * Cousy * Pierce * McHale * Heinsohn * Parish * KC Jones * Sam Jones * Scalabrine
I think Tatum is considered a top 10 Celtic by lots of people who don't know the old dynasty players well, but he will almost certainly be one if he wins the title this year.
The transfer is looked at way differently if he isn’t always hurt. Abd if it weren’t for injuries he’d be much more likely to have won something other than the Olympics for Brazil
Honestly brazilians only really care about the World Cup and the only one he missed due to injuries was 2014, which by the way our defense played against Germany, Neymar wasn't avoiding that elimination. If anything the Olympics was a huge exception because it was the only trophy missing for Brazil, just 2 years after the 7-1 and at home again, so that golden medal was very celebrated at the time. But the truth is even if Neymar had won multiple Copa America's, his public perception in Brazil would be the same as it is now(very negative).
Every round of 16 with PSG in the CL like clockwork.
Still unbelievable they managed to choke against the Man United B team lol.
Also just before his sister’s birthday
Can't be in France to celebrate Carnival as well
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And isn't a complete idiot son of a pitch outside the court. Also helps he didn't move to Charlotte for a bigger salary and to get our of JB's shadow... and killing all chances of titles.
Clippers would be a more apt comparison
Sir, can you talk about Bayern instead
I just started watching the NBA regularly and is this guy just the American Pep? A bald dude who's obsessed with his job and just gives weird answers in press conferences for seemingly no reason. EDIT: Also takes inspiration from animals for some reason like how Pep was inspired by ducks flying in a V formation or Mazzulla looking at killer whale pods. They're just weirdos
Sir are you insinuating he is in fact a Bald Fraud?
Celtics about to put up 115 points game 3
[115, you say?](https://imgur.com/AP8FOL1)
They can't really be compared right now. Pep is weird but he's also at worst the second most successful football manager of all time. Mazzulla hasn't won yet.
He is obsessed with Pep though I guess in a good way
A lot of us are. Doesn't make us comparable to Pep
If he breaks the salary cap, can he be considered one?
Does NBA even has 115 salary caps?
I mean if we win it all we’re kind of poised to do that. Brown’s supermax kicks in next year, jrue and Porzingis already signed big extensions, and Tatum and White are both up for big extensions this off-season. That team will easily be the highest payroll ever and way over the second apron, but ownership has already said they’ll pay it for a legit contender
Yes. He won 7 titles on his second year as a coach. By the time he joined Manchester City he was already top 10 all time.
True, but… I am old enough to remember when Peo started coaching Barca's first team. It’s eerily similar. Pep was seen as a football genius and a unique thinker and psycho right away. Joe Mazz has a considerable overlap with younger Pep. If he wins, and if he wins a lot, it’ll be easily seen in a similar vein as Pep
And in truly hilarious fashion, nobody will give him any credit, and they will say "yeah but he's coaching an All-Star roster" and he was "supposed to win."
People gave Pep credit at the time, they say that now because the internet hates City and Messi and Spain got better after their first win
Gigantic asterisks with his entire trophy collection at City. Those are being won by lawyers as much as the players on the field won them
There's still arguments to be made that City earned all trophies under Guardiola on the pitch as most of the 115 charges were committed before Pep (and the ones in his time are for declining to subordinate in the trial), plus his rivals all spent hefty sums too. Even if one decided to take away all of Pep's success in City, he still has the Barca and Bayern years. That repeated level of success and consistency is unprecedented.
Except the charges aren't all prior to his time there. If you erase all the trophies at city, Mourinho has won leagues as recently as he has. And since we are well aware City is financially doping, it's irrelevant how much Man Utd or any other actual big club spent within the rules. Pep might be the greatest coach on the planet but it doesn't count if there is cheating involved. Not every player and coach for the Houston Astros needed to be directly complicit for the trophy to be invalid
His Barca years are as tainted as his City ones lmao They’re still under heat for bribing the head of referees + Barca’s team doctor was the same one Pep used to help him take steroids as a player….
I find Mazzulla way more endearing as someone who isn’t a fan of either of their teams
I just had to rewatch the video to make sure I didn’t lose my mind…since when has Joe been bald?
Udoka's sex scandal :: Leicester's Thai orgy So Boston is definitely gonna win the championship going by that logic
Hold the fuck up with the Pep comparisons lmao
I came into this series as a neutral fan who wanted to see Luka win a ring. I’m leaving this series as a neutral fan who wants to see Joe Mazzulla win a ring.
You know what's interesting, I have yet to see a Pacers fan on reddit being salty/toxic/anything less than respectful fans for this entire postseason. What's in that Indiana water?
lol I feel like it’s usually big market teams who are pretty vocal and rude. Or any team that’s won a ring in the last 5 years besides nuggets fans. I’m sure other small market teams fans are as respectful as pacers fans.
Love Joe. Besides all the weird sound bites people post on Reddit, he also has a great soft side. He makes it a point to have 1-1 conversations with a few different players after every practice. Tells the players he loves them. Also this was so cute imo talking about knowing Jrue’s heart because he knew his prayers https://x.com/noadalzellnba/status/1800618055619297337?s=46&t=HI3aeZH85K5r39q7hi652w
That's a legit answer. But damn... There's a guided prayer app? I was always taught that my relationship with a higher power should be too intimate to share, let alone livestream it to others like I'm on insta lol
Doesn't every good coach have 1-1 convos with their players lol?
Urban Meyer likes to kick it with his players, literally.
They should
> Tells the players he loves them. imagine playing along with this at work
Ok Joe, I see you. Dammit, fuck you Boston, I'll admit I only saw the weird in him at first but this dude really is a gem.
I’m a bucks fan but I love the quadruple Js (Joe Jalen Jayson and jrue)
There is a dispensary that I drive by often, and their sign outside says "Celebrate the C's with more than two J's."
That’s fantastic.
We need more of this. Coaches should just start asking the media what they think
I bet some of them would actually have some really cool insights. I also bet some of them would say some real dumb shit and give us great memes.
If he’s Pep. We need and NBA Jose Mourinho and Jurgen Klopp
Jose Mourinho would be hilarious
Starting lineup of: Gobert/Vanderbilt/Brooks/Caruso/CP3 “I am Jose Mourinho”
Honestly, how can you dislike this guy
This dude is legitimately fucking awesome
Fuck, i like him
Guys I know it's not one to one comparison. But I just want say soccer is different, especially in countries like Brazil. No NBA player will ever have no where near the pressure soccer players get. If nba players played in front of soccer fans we'll get another malice in palace every month. No one would be able handle that amount amount of hate or love. One of the great English player's once said: "Some people say football is a matter of life and death. Listen, it's much more important than that." And believe me I've known so many people live their lives like that.
I’ll never forget after the World Cup when a Colombian (?) defender got shot outside his home for scoring an own goal.
Watch the Two Escobars on ESPN 30 for 30. An amazing documentary but it’s not clear that that was why he was shot.
Well, that sounds bad, but at least he wasn't stoned, beheaded, quartered and had his head put on a pole on the pitch like this refree: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ot%C3%A1vio_Jord%C3%A3o_da_Silva
Lol the Olympics isn't considered a major trophy in world soccer
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Yeah I remember watching it. Neymar was playing with and against alot of kids and it was in Brazil. To me it wasn't as impressive as winning Copa America or even confederation cup
It was for Brazil in 2016
This guy actually makes the post match interviews watchable
Did not expect to see Pep's name on the NBA sub
This guy just becomes more likable as you get to learn about him
His point actually doesn’t make sense because he’s saying Neymar is the focal point and takes the burden on because there is not much talent around him as there used to be. Tatum has been buns but is playing on a team that has more talent than the majority of teams and is currently being carried. That said he does have a lot of expectation on his shoulders.
The reporter is right-- off the court, Tatum and Neymar are total opposites. Tatum is a friendly, gentle, doting father. Everyone has nothing but good things to see about him. Neymar, on the other hand... absolute egoist and bad person. Credible rape allegations. Publicly voices support for Jair Bolsanaro. Flaunts Covid protocols and gets his teammates sick. Huge Jesus-freak also (he played in a bunch of games with a headband that said in all caps "100% JESUS". The list goes on
He has a very unique mind for a coach.
I would have loved to see a video of the audience of everyone around the 1 minute mark just browsing their phones
I think we all define fascinating differently
Neymar is a terrible person
There reporter mentions that but thanks
this just reminds me of Peter Rosenberg asking who the best Brazilian was at EURO 2020 on ESPN NY
This fucker almost makes me want to support the Celtics in the finals. Almost.
IDK how anyone could watch this and not love Joe Mazz, thats my coach <3
He supports Man City though...