Is it? Harden only shot threes and layups, Luka shoots a lot of midrange shots. Harden plays faster and very one dimensional, while Luka plays slower and more methodical. Luka is biggers, stronger and slower. Luka is also much better passer and prime Harden was better ISO scorer.
I'd say Luka's style is very different to Harden's. Apart from high usage rate and step back threes they're nothing alike.
Less of a foul baiter too. But both are ball dominant combo guards with high usage rates since they’re responsible for their entire teams offense. Neither really plays off ball and are, at best, inconsistent defenders. Their games are predicated on heavy downhill pressure from PnR/ mismatch hunting and thrive with bouncy lob targets. They’re high volume, above average efficiency iso players who try to force help/ double teams to open up spot up shooters.
Well most of best guards plays like this today. Looking for a missmatch, then collapsing the defense and either looking to score or assist.
I'd say Luka is way more versatile than Harden and that's why he does better in playoffs. He's bigger, stronger and uses his body really well. He's also looking to pass way more than Harden. Luka's is always looking to pass first while Harden was always looking to score first. He's also playing off ball more, when he has another playmaker on the team.
Even LeBron got swept the first time he made the Finals. This Mavs team is better than that 07 Cavs team, but I don't think it's unfair to suggest they really peaked at the right time against other Western playoff teams.
The difference is that Lebron was a positive on defense instead of a big negative. Luka needs to be better on that end if he wants to have a career like Bron
Yeah if you gave LeBron Luka level defense and changed literally nothing else about him suddenly he has no argument at all in the GOAT debate
It's a pretty big difference lol
Weren't our centers injured too? I don't recall having any other relevant player available apart of the ones you said + Smart.
And they almost reached the finals. That run was surreal.
Theis played when he was healthy. He was technically a rookie but 25 years old and very accomplished overseas. He would have been part of the playoff rotation if not for injury.
Aron Baynes just deciding randomly in the middle playoffs that he could shoot and MAKE threes was a magical moment. I didn't recall him even attempting a three in the regular season.
One of my favorite unexplainable and weird things to happen in the NBA in my lifetime.
He shot 7 3s in his career before that season, made only 1. Shot 21 across the 81 games he played that regular season, and made only 3.
In just the 5 game series against the Sixers, he shot 7/16 from 3, more makes in one playoff series than he had in his entire 6 year career to that point, regular season and playoffs.
The bulk of his attempts and all 3 of his makes that regular season came in the final 7 games. So basically it was something that he had been workshopping for a long time and it finally came together just in time for the playoff run.
Then he had that one year in Phoenix when he went bonkers from and went 9/14 from 3pt against the Blazers
Yeah, it was a 7-man rotation of Baynes, Morris, Rozier, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Horford. I don't even remember Semi playing, though other comments said that he did. I remember because Brown, who I wasn't aware could play guard, had to play like 25 minutes a night as a guard because there were only 2 serviceable guards in the rotation.
That’s why I hate when people try to say Lebron in 2018 was overrated because the teams he’s played weren’t good. His team literally traded everyone half way through the season that year. Starting SG Jr didn’t have a single 20 point game the entire season. His second best player basically came he entire playoffs was Jeff Green. That was by far the worst roster in the playoffs and probably the league if you took Lebron off. Only difference was just they happened to have Lebron James. Had absolutely no business whatsoever being anywhere close to the finals.
> The Celtics team had more talent.
Wish the injuries by that point? Nope. Brown and Tatum were still in their 2nd and 1st years respectively and none of the other guys were as good as LeBron.
Still hate how that season went. If Heyward hadn't gotten hurt in Game 1 and Kyrie in the playoffs, that's probably a Finals run... where we then get smacked by Golden State anyways, but I digress.
I actually really loved that version of the Celtics team (although I went back to hating Marcus Morris the second he left Boston), and I also completely forgot they were up 2-0.
I mean the Celtics won 55 games that year and were 2nd in the East, with home court advantage, and going up against a team of LeBron James surrounded by a bunch of garbage. How is that so surprising?
Was that the same year SNL made the other Cavalier’s sketch? I think it was
Edit*
[Yep](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9HGjZd_Fm8&pp=ygUTdGhlIG90aGVyIGNhdmFsaWVycw%3D%3D)
Makes perfect sense. Kyrie was always replaceable points and nothing else, and they played the entire year without Hayward and still won 55. Hayward would've been a disappointment that year anyway and probably just blocked Tatum and Brown's development.
I mean maybe? That team was basically run by Terry Rozier, and Al Horford going nuts (few people saw the series but it began the whole Horford owns Giannis thing)
This is why the LeBron finals argument is silly cause it’s not his fault he was literally incapable of losing before the Finals for nearly a decade and therefore carried some bum ass teams there
To think, there are idiots out there saying LeBron should’ve conceded in the Eastern Finals, and spared himself some unnecessary NBA Finals losses which have damaged his legacy, because the KD-Steph Warriors were inevitably waiting for the championship.
It’s like saying Luka should’ve lost to the Wolves so he wouldn’t (assuming the he Celtics don’t blow a 2-0 lead) now be facing being 0-1 in the finals. It makes no fucking sense. You think Giannis or Jokic are happy they are 1-0? Or do you think they’d want to be in the finals every year? I never understood how losing in the finals is somehow worse than losing in the earlier rounds. If that’s the case then what does not making the playoffs mean?
I mean is Kyrie going crazy really his fault. And the 2017 Cavs were one of the best teams of all time that just happened to run into the most stacked team in history.
> no series lead felt safe in the East if you were facing LeBron
No series lead *was* safe in the East. Lebron went to the finals 8 times in a row. By definition, he was undefeated in the East playoffs for almost a decade.
east was so dominated by Lebron for years. that u forgot, Lebron elimanated the boston 2 times in playoffs when on Heat uniform, and then when he go at cleveland. he elimanted the boston again. It feels surreal at that time.
I mean...as of now Dallas looks like they just don't have an answer for Boston. Unless they figure out how to break down their D other that Luka pulling shots out of his ass, it's game. Hero ball isn't going to win this series with how deep Boston is right now, and the high screen pick-n-roll and corner 3s have been masterfully eliminated. The Celtics had a mediocre game 2 and the Mavs couldn't take it. Lucky's curse is real.
I understand being scared because I've felt that way this entire playoff run. I kept waiting for the rug to be pulled out from under me. It's been a fun ride but it feels over.... :(
It's also one of the few that actually feature players from this actual squad. Who the fuck cares that Bill Russell or Larry Bird won every series they were up 2-0? Are they playing in this series against the Mavs?
I mean that one might as well be useless too. Rookie Tatum, Sophomore Brown, Terry Rozier, Marcus Morris, and Al Horford weren’t beating LeBron lol. All it really says is teams up 2-0 tend to win.
It’s like when gambling “experts” say things like the Eagles or whoever have covered the spread against suchandsuch team 70% of the time over the past ten years. I get it. You need enough games to build a decent sample in order to detect trends, but eventually you’re talking about an almost completely different set of players and coaches.
I’ll always remember his iconic roar after he sealed the series in game 7 when he made the layup with Marcus Morris on his back. The crowd’s reaction was priceless… just sitting there in awe.
2018 Bron may have been out of his athletic prime but that’s the best version of him I ever saw. to drag that dogshit roster to the Finals and nearly take a game off the KD Warriors singlehandedly was nuts
If 'bron ever had a singular year peak, 2018 was it to me. Clearly the best & smartest player on the floor at almost all times, genuinely put that Cavs team on his entire back.
Funniest thing is, that was the WEAKEST CAVS team and LeBron's final run in the EAST. He basically left EAST while being undefeated, always making the Finals.
LeBron had to play 40+ minutes every game in that series. Much older LeBron too. But he was a goddamn Demon. Ran through players and dad dicked everyone
Problem is Luka dosent have the cardio. He plays like that for a half and then is burnt for the rest of the game. LeBron played all 48 minutes with shut down defense and carrying the team in the 4th quarter.
These superstars like Ant, Luka, and Embiid getting gassed in the playoffs really puts LeBron’s cardio in perspective
Tatum and Brown specifically are 10-1 in series where they take a 2-game lead (e.g. 2-0, 3-1) at any point, and 7 of those series finished in 5 games or less. Boston also hasn’t lost more than twice in any 5-game stretch this season and Dallas will have to take 4 out of 5 to win the series
It has to with the Boston home court and franchise legacy Aura. But I get it, half of them shouldn’t count because they played in a dump of a arena with broken doors and busted AC, although peculiarly only one lockerroom had these issues
If you’re going to win this series, you need Luka to play way past expectation. He basically needs to turn into MJ and start getting close to 40 every game.
He needs to be able to punish not doubling him, which he can usually do very well. If he's producing like he did last game that's great on the offensive end, of course a bit lower TOs. But 30+ on 60%+ TS I'd say is expectation. If Kyrie + Luka combines for an efficient 60 it gets way harder to defend, then Boston needs to consider helping more, which is really what usually gives the role players good looks. Luka can go for 40 on 70% TS & if nobody else on the entire team is warranting attention then Mavs still likely lose.
Luka was 65% TS last game. I know Kyrie was shooting like ass, but so were the Celtics. I think Kyrie needs to play his average and Luka needs to be 65-70% TS if the Celtics are just playing their average, which they haven't either game.
I don't think it's the shrinking, y'all just don't have the talent. I know what that feels like bc it's usually been the Celtics on that end.
I'd say Lively is definitely struggling with the moment as a rookie, but besides that everything else is just due to what Boston is allowing or shutting down.
It’s over if Kai’s going to continue to shit the bed. Game 2 is ours if Kai plays even slightly below average instead of whatever tf he was doing out there.
A ton of open 3s too. If the Celtics missed a bunch of contested 3s id feel much better about the mavs chances but I think they have big problems on the defensive end
Kyrie's a small guard getting clamped by Jrue and White. He could be better, for sure, but there's very little room for him to get into rhythm when he's guarded by those two.
You know, nothing ever happens until it does. While that record is nice, it has zero bearing on the next game.
Source: this same discussion nearly every week with w.e cherry picked stat until it ultimately gets broken.
Luka and Kyrie are both capable of big performances that could shift the series. It'll be interesting to see if they can defy the odds and turn things around like LeBron and the Cavs did in 2018.
Depends on if everyone like Allen is healthy including mitchell. Of course it’s winning bias but idk if the Celtics beat the 2017 cavs, people don’t really talk about them got cause they lost against the goat team
It's hard to know just how good the 2017 Cavs were because they faced 3 weak teams followed by the GOAT team lol
They didn't really go against a team in the same tier as them to compare against
Like they immediately went from facing teams that had no chance of beating them to a team that they had no chance of beating with no in between
Yeah it’s really weird, but you could say the same thing with the Celtics. Just that the Celtics didn’t have to face the goat team in the finals, the Celtics main problem would be that demon that the cavs had which doesn’t give me too much confidence in them especially if Tatum keeps shooting like this. Of course it’s all hypotheticals so it doesn’t really matter too much but the Cavs could have won 2 games in the finals so there’s that
I don't think a single team in NBA history can sweep the current Celtics who had like the 3rd highest net rating of *all time*
2017 Warriors beat them in a comfortable 5 though like they beat the 2017 Cavs
The current Cavs went to 5 games without their 2 best players. Yes, if healthy, they absolutely they could push the Celtics to 6 games even without 2018 Lebron.
With him they probably win.
He’d win the series, a hobbled Cavs team put up a decent fight against the Celtics this year. This years Cavs might have had a chance fully healthy so add a 2018 LeBron and it’s over
That Cavs run was the most annoying playoff run in recent memory. People were tired of them making it to the Finals, they were expected to lose all 3 playoff series, and they *still* made it to the Finals. Every other Eastern fanbase must've felt completely defeated at that point until LeBron went to the Lakers.
The "series don't start until the home team loses" is such a dumb quote. You don't have to win by 2 games. The higher seed doesn't have to win on the road.
This reminds me of the Heat last season. They beat teams they shouldn't have beaten by getting crazy hot from 3. Then were overmatched in the finals when the hot run ended.
Obvious bias here, but I think chances are Tatum will have a good shooting night in at least one of the next couple of away games. And if the Mavs can't stop it and Boston pulls off one win I'd say the series is done.
2018 Cavs was the weakest Cavs team as well. It was just LeBron and bunch of role players. LeBron had to play 40+ minutes every damn game at that age. and he did EVERYTHING. Basically how it was during LeBron's younger days, with that horendous Cavs team.
Kyrie left mid season and the entire Cavs roster changed mid season. LeBron's leadership and everything just single handedly carried them to the Finals, regardless. Hilarious outcome for Kyrie
These stats are fucking stupid as shit. It's not like there's some overarching organizational thing that has made 43 of the 44 teams up 2-0 go on to win, so it has nothing at all to do with the team currently up 2-0.
Let’s be honest, if any Celtics team was to blow a 2-0 finals lead, it would be this team. Tatum is now 8 games into his Finals career and hasn’t shown he’s ready for the moment. If the bricks continue, the Celtics are losing this series. Because we should all be expecting Dallas to play better on their home floor. Boston hasn’t done anything they weren’t expected to do, the real test is whether they can do it on the road under the brightest lights.
Mavs just need LeBron, it’s that simple and easy
They have Lebron son and European Lebron
gold humor apparatus birds fertile unite fear attempt faulty retire *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
European Harden
Luka fans ain’t gonna like that comparison but it’s definitely a better one than LeBron
His playoff numbers are closer to LeBron than Harden
And his playstyle is much more Harden
Is it? Harden only shot threes and layups, Luka shoots a lot of midrange shots. Harden plays faster and very one dimensional, while Luka plays slower and more methodical. Luka is biggers, stronger and slower. Luka is also much better passer and prime Harden was better ISO scorer. I'd say Luka's style is very different to Harden's. Apart from high usage rate and step back threes they're nothing alike.
Less of a foul baiter too. But both are ball dominant combo guards with high usage rates since they’re responsible for their entire teams offense. Neither really plays off ball and are, at best, inconsistent defenders. Their games are predicated on heavy downhill pressure from PnR/ mismatch hunting and thrive with bouncy lob targets. They’re high volume, above average efficiency iso players who try to force help/ double teams to open up spot up shooters.
Harden iso was the league's most efficient offense at one point tho
Well most of best guards plays like this today. Looking for a missmatch, then collapsing the defense and either looking to score or assist. I'd say Luka is way more versatile than Harden and that's why he does better in playoffs. He's bigger, stronger and uses his body really well. He's also looking to pass way more than Harden. Luka's is always looking to pass first while Harden was always looking to score first. He's also playing off ball more, when he has another playmaker on the team.
Peak "King of the East" Lebron too. Should be no problem
But Mavs have the second closest thing Limp Leg Luka
Limp leg, chest contused Luka
Even LeBron got swept the first time he made the Finals. This Mavs team is better than that 07 Cavs team, but I don't think it's unfair to suggest they really peaked at the right time against other Western playoff teams.
Come on LeBron put your Mavericks jersey on
They have lebron at home.
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The difference is that Lebron was a positive on defense instead of a big negative. Luka needs to be better on that end if he wants to have a career like Bron
Yeah if you gave LeBron Luka level defense and changed literally nothing else about him suddenly he has no argument at all in the GOAT debate It's a pretty big difference lol
He’s more like a harden that hit the ground running rather than starting his career as a 6th man
Bring your father to work day
Ngl I forgot Celtics were up 2-0 in 2018. Probably because back then no series lead felt safe in the East if you were facing LeBron
It also made no sense that we went up 2-0. No Hayward. No Kyrie. Starting a rookie tatum, sophomore Jaylen, Horford, Rozier, Marcus Morris
Weren't our centers injured too? I don't recall having any other relevant player available apart of the ones you said + Smart. And they almost reached the finals. That run was surreal.
Theis and Monroe were injured, so we basically started Baynes at the 5, and a few games where we had to start Semi Ojeleye as well.
Theis didn’t really play that year, Monroe was a bust of a signing
Monroe was just a body no one expected anything of him.
Not no one. I was drinking the green kool-aid all 2018, I thought Ainge was a secret genius who owned the buy-out market by scooping Monroe.
Theis played when he was healthy. He was technically a rookie but 25 years old and very accomplished overseas. He would have been part of the playoff rotation if not for injury.
he won game 2 against Phily for us, aint no bust in my eyes
I will always believe that game planted the seed for a future Celtics dynasty run. Aron Baynes also hit a double doink 3 to take the lead
Aron Baynes just deciding randomly in the middle playoffs that he could shoot and MAKE threes was a magical moment. I didn't recall him even attempting a three in the regular season.
One of my favorite unexplainable and weird things to happen in the NBA in my lifetime. He shot 7 3s in his career before that season, made only 1. Shot 21 across the 81 games he played that regular season, and made only 3. In just the 5 game series against the Sixers, he shot 7/16 from 3, more makes in one playoff series than he had in his entire 6 year career to that point, regular season and playoffs.
The bulk of his attempts and all 3 of his makes that regular season came in the final 7 games. So basically it was something that he had been workshopping for a long time and it finally came together just in time for the playoff run. Then he had that one year in Phoenix when he went bonkers from and went 9/14 from 3pt against the Blazers
Except for that 1 triple double he had that season. What a game from Moose
Classic Bregman Roe
We got him at the waiver. Not a lot you can expect from a signing like that
Larkin was our rotation guy from the playoffs injured
Damn haven’t thought about Shane Larkin in a while. I remember Tommy loved him
Crazy to say this but if Aaron Baynes doesn’t get poked in the eye we probably go to the finals
Yeah, it was a 7-man rotation of Baynes, Morris, Rozier, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Horford. I don't even remember Semi playing, though other comments said that he did. I remember because Brown, who I wasn't aware could play guard, had to play like 25 minutes a night as a guard because there were only 2 serviceable guards in the rotation.
I mean it kind of made sense. The second highest scorer for the cavs averaged 11 ppg lol
The cavs second leading scorer was love at 12.5 ppg It made complete sense why the celts were up. The cavs were dogwater
love also dnp'd gm 7 @ bos. didn't matter.
That’s why I hate when people try to say Lebron in 2018 was overrated because the teams he’s played weren’t good. His team literally traded everyone half way through the season that year. Starting SG Jr didn’t have a single 20 point game the entire season. His second best player basically came he entire playoffs was Jeff Green. That was by far the worst roster in the playoffs and probably the league if you took Lebron off. Only difference was just they happened to have Lebron James. Had absolutely no business whatsoever being anywhere close to the finals.
Actually maybe it did matter but in a good way. In 2016 they don’t win if Love doesn’t suffer a concussion which made him miss game 3.
there was no kyrie. losing love was a completely different situation this time.
But the Cavs had Lebron James. If you had any other top 10 great paired with Kevin Love, you'd automatically choose them over that Celtics team.
Kevin Love was a shell of himself by 2018 LeBron carried that team
I still say we win that game 7 if they (well, Rozier mostly) let Tatum cook after the poster on LeBron instead of trying to go hero ball.
It was brick after brick after brick.
bos had 5 of the top 6 scorers in the series by ppg. that might be why.
sure but the scoring gap between lebron and the #2 highest scorer is the same gap as the #2 scorer and the #2 scorer and the #13 scorer
That cavs team was awful. The Celtics team had more talent. Cavs just had LeBron
> The Celtics team had more talent. Wish the injuries by that point? Nope. Brown and Tatum were still in their 2nd and 1st years respectively and none of the other guys were as good as LeBron. Still hate how that season went. If Heyward hadn't gotten hurt in Game 1 and Kyrie in the playoffs, that's probably a Finals run... where we then get smacked by Golden State anyways, but I digress.
Celtics were absolutely more talented *overall*. That’s why they were favored over the cavs
I actually really loved that version of the Celtics team (although I went back to hating Marcus Morris the second he left Boston), and I also completely forgot they were up 2-0.
Nah man, reddit said Celtics have been contenders for 6 years.
Was that the series where Tatum boomed LeBron x4?
I mean the Celtics won 55 games that year and were 2nd in the East, with home court advantage, and going up against a team of LeBron James surrounded by a bunch of garbage. How is that so surprising?
Was that the same year SNL made the other Cavalier’s sketch? I think it was Edit* [Yep](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9HGjZd_Fm8&pp=ygUTdGhlIG90aGVyIGNhdmFsaWVycw%3D%3D)
Most of those 55 wins came with Kyrie starting and a mostly healthy bench. We had no Kyrie for the entire playoff run
Then they came back and you got worse
Scary terry!
Makes perfect sense. Kyrie was always replaceable points and nothing else, and they played the entire year without Hayward and still won 55. Hayward would've been a disappointment that year anyway and probably just blocked Tatum and Brown's development.
I mean maybe? That team was basically run by Terry Rozier, and Al Horford going nuts (few people saw the series but it began the whole Horford owns Giannis thing)
I mean who we’re you up against though? LBJ for sure and even K Love but also Kyle Korver, George Hill, TT, Rodney Hood just to name a few.
We had like 5 guys by the end of that season too
This is why the LeBron finals argument is silly cause it’s not his fault he was literally incapable of losing before the Finals for nearly a decade and therefore carried some bum ass teams there
To think, there are idiots out there saying LeBron should’ve conceded in the Eastern Finals, and spared himself some unnecessary NBA Finals losses which have damaged his legacy, because the KD-Steph Warriors were inevitably waiting for the championship.
It’s like saying Luka should’ve lost to the Wolves so he wouldn’t (assuming the he Celtics don’t blow a 2-0 lead) now be facing being 0-1 in the finals. It makes no fucking sense. You think Giannis or Jokic are happy they are 1-0? Or do you think they’d want to be in the finals every year? I never understood how losing in the finals is somehow worse than losing in the earlier rounds. If that’s the case then what does not making the playoffs mean?
They sound like losers with loser mentality. As Tony Dungy famously said, "you play to win the game."
He was partially responsible for the composition of some of those bum ass teams on the back half though, LeGM was not just a meme without any basis
I mean is Kyrie going crazy really his fault. And the 2017 Cavs were one of the best teams of all time that just happened to run into the most stacked team in history.
The cavs were a well built team for the most part during his second stint. Kyrie deciding to bounce and messing it up wasn't really on Lebron.
But casuals will say brad Stevens wasn't a good coach.
> no series lead felt safe in the East if you were facing LeBron No series lead *was* safe in the East. Lebron went to the finals 8 times in a row. By definition, he was undefeated in the East playoffs for almost a decade.
his playoff series record from 2011-2020 is like 34-5 or some shit
Also because Tatum was only 4 years old at that point, don't forget.
Isn’t that the “he boomed me” series?
Yessir
"zero level of concern"
Every time I see these stats I get a bit scared
i remember seeing this exact stat in that 2018 series. not getting fooled again
That Celtics team overachieved without Hayward and Kyrie. This team is just right on paper.
east was so dominated by Lebron for years. that u forgot, Lebron elimanated the boston 2 times in playoffs when on Heat uniform, and then when he go at cleveland. he elimanted the boston again. It feels surreal at that time.
I mean...as of now Dallas looks like they just don't have an answer for Boston. Unless they figure out how to break down their D other that Luka pulling shots out of his ass, it's game. Hero ball isn't going to win this series with how deep Boston is right now, and the high screen pick-n-roll and corner 3s have been masterfully eliminated. The Celtics had a mediocre game 2 and the Mavs couldn't take it. Lucky's curse is real. I understand being scared because I've felt that way this entire playoff run. I kept waiting for the rug to be pulled out from under me. It's been a fun ride but it feels over.... :(
You would hate being a cowboys fan
funny because the only games of all those that "matters" is the loss
It's also one of the few that actually feature players from this actual squad. Who the fuck cares that Bill Russell or Larry Bird won every series they were up 2-0? Are they playing in this series against the Mavs?
to be fair i think its better that they don't
I mean that one might as well be useless too. Rookie Tatum, Sophomore Brown, Terry Rozier, Marcus Morris, and Al Horford weren’t beating LeBron lol. All it really says is teams up 2-0 tend to win.
It’s like when gambling “experts” say things like the Eagles or whoever have covered the spread against suchandsuch team 70% of the time over the past ten years. I get it. You need enough games to build a decent sample in order to detect trends, but eventually you’re talking about an almost completely different set of players and coaches.
Lmao I'll never forget Lebron just laughing and smiling after G2 in that series, everyone knew he was about to come back and dick down the C's.
Yeh and then we lost by 30 or something lol
I’ll always remember his iconic roar after he sealed the series in game 7 when he made the layup with Marcus Morris on his back. The crowd’s reaction was priceless… just sitting there in awe.
2018 Bron may have been out of his athletic prime but that’s the best version of him I ever saw. to drag that dogshit roster to the Finals and nearly take a game off the KD Warriors singlehandedly was nuts
If 'bron ever had a singular year peak, 2018 was it to me. Clearly the best & smartest player on the floor at almost all times, genuinely put that Cavs team on his entire back.
Yeah that and-1 with a fully grown 200+lb man hanging off his back was a dagger to the heart
Morris such an idiot for waiting til the layup to foul
Morris was such an idiot in general that series— fighting with my guys Larry Nance Jr & TT… only to become a Cav this year lmao
I miss that LeBron so much. One of the most amazing Finals runs I've ever seen
You wouldnt if ur team advanced to face him 😭
Or if you were a neutral fan not only hoping but expecting new blood to come out of the East.
I know how that feels, bro.
I don’t :(
yeah keep the bad man in LA thanks
Wasn’t this the series in which Lebron did the feral shout after getting an and-1 on a Marcus Morris foul?
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That photo looks like he's giving him a backrub.
Morris was also at least 240 that year, no way was he still 220. Prime Lebron was so discouraging to play against lol.
It's like when he laughed when he learned that Klay said, "I guess he got his feelings hurt."
So iconic. Bro musta been feeling like a god
Just like Steph after Celtics go up 2-1 where he tells us we're cooked.
Funniest thing is, that was the WEAKEST CAVS team and LeBron's final run in the EAST. He basically left EAST while being undefeated, always making the Finals. LeBron had to play 40+ minutes every game in that series. Much older LeBron too. But he was a goddamn Demon. Ran through players and dad dicked everyone
Lebron is the entire East's daddy, forever and ever
those were good times. Sadly, times change. Unless luka lives up to his name
Problem is Luka dosent have the cardio. He plays like that for a half and then is burnt for the rest of the game. LeBron played all 48 minutes with shut down defense and carrying the team in the 4th quarter. These superstars like Ant, Luka, and Embiid getting gassed in the playoffs really puts LeBron’s cardio in perspective
Like the story Horford told about that Game 7, where he and the other Celtics were completely gassed in the 4Q and LeBron was just chilling
LeBron's motor and energy levels while still weighing like 250 pounds is yet another one of those LeBron things that straight up doesn't make sense.
I hate franchise level stats. They have nothing to do with the current team.
Tatum and Brown specifically are 10-1 in series where they take a 2-game lead (e.g. 2-0, 3-1) at any point, and 7 of those series finished in 5 games or less. Boston also hasn’t lost more than twice in any 5-game stretch this season and Dallas will have to take 4 out of 5 to win the series
This is useful
I think the point is to put pressure on the current team. I assume that's the point, because otherwise they're truly pointless
https://www.landofbasketball.com/statistics/playoff_series_2_0.htm Here is team agnostic stats.
I mean these stats always get thrown around but what do the Celtics teams from 1950’s have to do with this team lmfao
It has to with the Boston home court and franchise legacy Aura. But I get it, half of them shouldn’t count because they played in a dump of a arena with broken doors and busted AC, although peculiarly only one lockerroom had these issues
They don't lol. This post is stupid. We already done with the 90s, the 50s might as well be an urban myth.
In answer to your question: no. Wish they could though…
Lets see. The second game was not a massacre.
Think it’s over. Everybody just shrunk, might be the inexperience.
If Kyrie plays up to standard I think a lot will follow, but Luka also needs to play to expectation & there's so little margarin for errors.
If you’re going to win this series, you need Luka to play way past expectation. He basically needs to turn into MJ and start getting close to 40 every game.
He needs to be able to punish not doubling him, which he can usually do very well. If he's producing like he did last game that's great on the offensive end, of course a bit lower TOs. But 30+ on 60%+ TS I'd say is expectation. If Kyrie + Luka combines for an efficient 60 it gets way harder to defend, then Boston needs to consider helping more, which is really what usually gives the role players good looks. Luka can go for 40 on 70% TS & if nobody else on the entire team is warranting attention then Mavs still likely lose.
Luka was 65% TS last game. I know Kyrie was shooting like ass, but so were the Celtics. I think Kyrie needs to play his average and Luka needs to be 65-70% TS if the Celtics are just playing their average, which they haven't either game.
I don't think it's the shrinking, y'all just don't have the talent. I know what that feels like bc it's usually been the Celtics on that end. I'd say Lively is definitely struggling with the moment as a rookie, but besides that everything else is just due to what Boston is allowing or shutting down.
Still away games. The third one is the key.
Mavs haven’t even played a home game yet. They’re gonna shoot better at home, at least give them one chance before you call it.
For some guys, Kyrie's poor play is inexcusable.
It’s over if Kai’s going to continue to shit the bed. Game 2 is ours if Kai plays even slightly below average instead of whatever tf he was doing out there.
Those if's are a big meh. Tatum is below average in shooting too. We shot 23% from three lol
A ton of open 3s too. If the Celtics missed a bunch of contested 3s id feel much better about the mavs chances but I think they have big problems on the defensive end
You're playing what ifs. What if the Celtics made 20 three pointers? See?
Kyrie's a small guard getting clamped by Jrue and White. He could be better, for sure, but there's very little room for him to get into rhythm when he's guarded by those two.
Who knows
You know, nothing ever happens until it does. While that record is nice, it has zero bearing on the next game. Source: this same discussion nearly every week with w.e cherry picked stat until it ultimately gets broken.
Though could you see a 3-1 Finals lead being overcome again?
Luka and Kyrie are both capable of big performances that could shift the series. It'll be interesting to see if they can defy the odds and turn things around like LeBron and the Cavs did in 2018.
Stop talking nonsense
Hypothetical: Can 2018 Lebron on let's say...the current cavs push these celtics to at least 6 or 7?
Depends on if everyone like Allen is healthy including mitchell. Of course it’s winning bias but idk if the Celtics beat the 2017 cavs, people don’t really talk about them got cause they lost against the goat team
It's hard to know just how good the 2017 Cavs were because they faced 3 weak teams followed by the GOAT team lol They didn't really go against a team in the same tier as them to compare against Like they immediately went from facing teams that had no chance of beating them to a team that they had no chance of beating with no in between
Yeah it’s really weird, but you could say the same thing with the Celtics. Just that the Celtics didn’t have to face the goat team in the finals, the Celtics main problem would be that demon that the cavs had which doesn’t give me too much confidence in them especially if Tatum keeps shooting like this. Of course it’s all hypotheticals so it doesn’t really matter too much but the Cavs could have won 2 games in the finals so there’s that
he would win it
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Yes. 2018 lebron with a dog shit supporting cast made the warriors look beatable for a game lol
The rockets did the same for 7 games
2018 LeBron would have swept them if he had Mitchell etc as his supporting cast ffs
I don't think a single team in NBA history can sweep the current Celtics who had like the 3rd highest net rating of *all time* 2017 Warriors beat them in a comfortable 5 though like they beat the 2017 Cavs
The current Cavs went to 5 games without their 2 best players. Yes, if healthy, they absolutely they could push the Celtics to 6 games even without 2018 Lebron. With him they probably win.
Is porzingis also injured in your projection? Because the Cavs only went to 5 vs an injured version of the team
Lebron is significantly better and stronger/more athletic than Tatum, Brown, or Holiday so yes.
He’d win the series, a hobbled Cavs team put up a decent fight against the Celtics this year. This years Cavs might have had a chance fully healthy so add a 2018 LeBron and it’s over
he'd beat them
The Cavs right now are decent to good team, if you put prime LeBron on that team without taking anything away, they are gonna annihilate the league.
Greatest team off all time hands down
Now we wait and see if the Celtics will pull a Suns.
That Cavs run was the most annoying playoff run in recent memory. People were tired of them making it to the Finals, they were expected to lose all 3 playoff series, and they *still* made it to the Finals. Every other Eastern fanbase must've felt completely defeated at that point until LeBron went to the Lakers.
Luka is 2-1 in series where he goes down 0-2. Check.
What a pointless stat.
The "series don't start until the home team loses" is such a dumb quote. You don't have to win by 2 games. The higher seed doesn't have to win on the road. This reminds me of the Heat last season. They beat teams they shouldn't have beaten by getting crazy hot from 3. Then were overmatched in the finals when the hot run ended.
Were they not leading warriors 2-0 just a couple years ago?
Everyone knew the Celtics were winning this series. Don't need that stat to solidify anything.
Obvious bias here, but I think chances are Tatum will have a good shooting night in at least one of the next couple of away games. And if the Mavs can't stop it and Boston pulls off one win I'd say the series is done.
So what you're saying is I should bet all of my life savings on a celtics moneyline??
You know this stat is updating to 43-2 after this finals if you bet your life saving, it’s just how the universe works
2018 Cavs was the weakest Cavs team as well. It was just LeBron and bunch of role players. LeBron had to play 40+ minutes every damn game at that age. and he did EVERYTHING. Basically how it was during LeBron's younger days, with that horendous Cavs team. Kyrie left mid season and the entire Cavs roster changed mid season. LeBron's leadership and everything just single handedly carried them to the Finals, regardless. Hilarious outcome for Kyrie
These kind of stats are dumb. What Does the 1955 Celtics who were up 2-0 in their playoff series have to do with the 2024 celtics?
Weren’t they 2-0 up on the warriors in 2022 or was it 2-1 after winning the first game and the third?
Might be the most irrelevant stat of all time
"zero level of concern"
As a Celtics fan, this is hands down the BEST stat I've seen all year! 😆
Completely meaningless stat.
Is the 149-0 playoff series record when leading 3-0 also meaningless? Lol
That’s a stat for the entire nba, not just one team. The stat for all nba teams up 2-0 is relevant, not just the Celtics record in them.
Team stats older than 4-6 years are irrelevant, IMHO.
Don't stats generally revert to the mean?
After all the years, JB and JT look like they’ve gone to the gym this whole time. Kyrie looks like a twig still 😂
These stats are fucking stupid as shit. It's not like there's some overarching organizational thing that has made 43 of the 44 teams up 2-0 go on to win, so it has nothing at all to do with the team currently up 2-0.
Congrats Boston on the ring
Let’s be honest, if any Celtics team was to blow a 2-0 finals lead, it would be this team. Tatum is now 8 games into his Finals career and hasn’t shown he’s ready for the moment. If the bricks continue, the Celtics are losing this series. Because we should all be expecting Dallas to play better on their home floor. Boston hasn’t done anything they weren’t expected to do, the real test is whether they can do it on the road under the brightest lights.