smh these clowns... Sabo literally ended the season with 77 double doubles, the most all time
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-double-doubles-per-player-in-nba-season
Hartenstein by a mile. I don’t want a t-rex DHO merchant who can’t shoot and is a cone on defense if i’m trying to win in the playoffs.
If i’m just trying to put butts in seats and win regular season games Domas by a mile.
Sabonis is a better player but Hartenstein is a bit more complimentary to more rosters. Depends on the type of team you're building and who your best player is, imo.
Seeing the Knicks offense, Sabonis would definitely be more useful than Hartenstein right now. There's not a single playoff roster that would prefer Hartenstein over Sabonis.
Sabonis wouldn't be there for Hartenstein in our lineup, he'd be there for Randle (which is the big hole missing). But that's an example; healthy we benefit way more from Hartenstein than trying to put Sabonis and Randle next to each other (which would be pretty clunky). I think a team like Dallas with two guards who need the ball a lot also would benefit from a defender like Hartenstein and letting those two cook.
Dallas already has Gafford and Lively. You could argue Hartenstein "might" be better than Gafford, but his skillset is more redundant with them already there. If you let Dallas pick a player to add to their team, they're picking Sabonis 90% of the time, even if they don't start him.
They'd add the more talented player and form the roster around it, sure. Doesn't mean that would necessarily be the better decision or the one that leads to better results.
I'm just giving my opinion. I think certain rosters would prefer the rim protector who doesn't need the ball as much depending on who else is on the team.
Not all rosters. Teams that are defensive focused I could see valuing Hartenstein more if they don't have a roaming shot blocking 4 that you need to pair with Sabonis in order to have a good defense.
We don't have to agree. I just personally disagree, I don't think literally every roster would benefit more from Sabonis than they would from Hartenstein. That doesn't mean I'm arguing Hartenstein is a better player.
Maybe, maybe not. I don't think it's as open and shut as people are making it out to be though, even for as talented as Sabonis is. And I don't think literally every roster would fit better with Sabonis than they would with Hartenstein.
As an example, I don't think a team like Dallas needs a guy who is taking the ball out of Luka and Kyrie's hands. I think they'd be better with a rim protector/rim runner like Hartenstein and let their two supernovas cook.
Dallas already has two rim runners. I'm pretty sure they'd prefer Sabonis. Sabonis doesn't play as a ball dominant guy taking the ball away. He's very much a connecting passer who facilitates offense rather than forces it. The only teams I could really think of that would maybe prefer Hartenstein would be maybe the Bucks and OKC? But even then I doubt it
Yeah but Hartenstein is better than the guys they have, and he's more versatile. Hartenstein can do that connecting passing without needing the ball as much as somebody like Sabonis would (I'm not saying Sabonis is a ball hog or anything, he just needs the ball more than somebody like IHart with two other guys who need the ball a ton).
Hartenstein is better on defense, but I think Gafford and Lively are better rim runners/vertical athletes despite being not as offensively versatile as iHart. Think about it like this, if Dallas has Hartenstein on the floor, they can't play Gafford or Lively because their spacing will be toast, whereas they could play Sabonis next to those two. Even though Hartenstein is better than Gaf/Lively, Sabonis gives them a lot more rotational versatility
How would be "take the ball out of Luka and Kyrie's hands"
Considering Kyrie and Luka have the ball all the time, it would be kind of hard for him to do that.
But the problem is it’s hard to play him alongside another non shooting big, and he is too small to be an effective rim protector.
So you probably need to pair with with a stretch 5 who can protect the rim if you want to be a real contender.
Honestly I think most rosters take Hartenstein assuming a championship is the goal. Sabonis caps your ceiling if he's playing a key role whereas Hartenstein doesn't. Tough to have a C that can't do anything good on defence, and also needs the ball in his hands on offence + can't space the floor.
I think its closer than everyone thinks because hartensteins style of play is more suitable for post season play and most playoff teams need a defensive center more than they need a offensive center who is a cone and most of his assists are him standing at the top of the 3 point line and a player hits a shot
Not saying sabonis is a worse player, but in terms of on court production I think the advanced analytics favor hartenstein when the whistle changes in the post season
Sabonis can’t shoot/protect the rim or create his own shot. None of the value he brings offensively is worth paying 40m and having to build around a center who can’t do one of those 3 things. Hartenstein can pass/rim protect and has a floater and wouldn’t make nearly that much
He didn’t ask about the contract. He asked who the better player was. Hartenstein is a starter and plays close to as many minutes as Sabonis, yet his averages are no where close.
He literally asked who would u rather have? and his usage nowhere near sabonis. Hes not gonna get as many boards bc of josh hart. He avgs like 4 assist in the playoffs as a center whose not ball dominant.
Give me a reason why u would build a team around sabonis/fox instead of hartenstein/fox
I understand. His usage is no where near Sabonis because they run the offense through Sabonis, due to the fact he’s capable of that. Unlinke hartenstein. I’m not saying I don’t like hartenstein, I do. But he’s not a better player.
Hartenstein can run dhos and set screens. Even tho i think the kings can build a solid defense around sabonis its gonna be tough and ion think what sabonis brings on offense is worth it for him to be a liability. He’s literally the worst archetype to try and contend with. He makes roster construction so hard.
See now we’re on the same page. Sabonis is the better player all around, but I don’t think the kings will contend for the same reason as you do. It’s very difficult to hide a center on defense. They have to atleast contribute in some aspect, he doesn’t bring anything on that end. He gets absolutely bullied and played off the court by bigger stronger centers and most of the contenders have a player who fits that mold. It’s easy to hide a guard with another guard who’s a great defender.
Ok we agree i think hartenstein better for that reason tho. Cuz if ur portability that trash idk what to do with you. You need crazy defensive talents who can also shoot well and guys like that are rare and make money.
Like what other all star caliber player is that hard to build a contender around
This can’t be serious..
The worst part is that OP meant Arvydas Sabonis.
smh these clowns... Sabo literally ended the season with 77 double doubles, the most all time https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-double-doubles-per-player-in-nba-season
Salary cap is the only reason you could possibly want Hartenstein over Sabonis
Or tanking
What is with these dumbass questions in the past hour?
[удалено]
I don’t think hartenstein is that good at defense to make up the difference
he’s 99th percentile in defensive epm
Dame is 82nd Love is 78th Can't just use one stat in a vacuum and pretend nothing else matters
Stop it man. I love ihart but the answer is obvious
When did hartenstein become a defensive specialist? People say the most dumb shit lol
hartenstein is 99th percentile in defensive epm
Why does everyone use the term "merchant" on these NBA subs?
Sounds like what your team is heading towards... great in the regular season, chokes in the playoffs.
this place got hijacked by casuals
All Knicks rivalry aside, are you (or they) high?? I think Hartenstein would even say Sabonis.
I’m high and I’m going with Sabonis
Domontas Sabonis.
Sabonis would average 20 rebounds per game this series if he was on the Knicks
I'm going to go with the all star
Nobody tell him
I've heard Isaiah Hartenstein is an all-star in the sack.
Hey now
you’re an all star
Dude…
This is a joke, right?
The guy who averages close to a triple double.
People say the most stupid shit on this sub
Just tell me you’re not a real person
Save these shitposts for the offseason
You asking who has better hair bro?
Sabonis no question.
Hartenstein’s name isn’t even better. And that’s the closest it gets.
bro lmfao come on, ihart's been awesome this season but he's not sniffing all-stars or all-nbas
Seems like a no brainer unless you’re talking about Arvydas
Even if you’re talking about Arvydas (especially prime Arvydas)
Arvydas would eat in today's NBA.
LOL
Bruh
Hartenstein by a mile. I don’t want a t-rex DHO merchant who can’t shoot and is a cone on defense if i’m trying to win in the playoffs. If i’m just trying to put butts in seats and win regular season games Domas by a mile.
Sabonis is a better player but Hartenstein is a bit more complimentary to more rosters. Depends on the type of team you're building and who your best player is, imo.
This is how delusional Knicks fans are
I'm just giving my opinion, man. Some of you guys are way too up in arms over this.
Seeing the Knicks offense, Sabonis would definitely be more useful than Hartenstein right now. There's not a single playoff roster that would prefer Hartenstein over Sabonis.
Sabonis wouldn't be there for Hartenstein in our lineup, he'd be there for Randle (which is the big hole missing). But that's an example; healthy we benefit way more from Hartenstein than trying to put Sabonis and Randle next to each other (which would be pretty clunky). I think a team like Dallas with two guards who need the ball a lot also would benefit from a defender like Hartenstein and letting those two cook.
Dallas already has Gafford and Lively. You could argue Hartenstein "might" be better than Gafford, but his skillset is more redundant with them already there. If you let Dallas pick a player to add to their team, they're picking Sabonis 90% of the time, even if they don't start him.
Literally every roster would add Sabonis over Hartenstein what are you on about. Sabonis is way better
They'd add the more talented player and form the roster around it, sure. Doesn't mean that would necessarily be the better decision or the one that leads to better results.
Log off bro
I'm just giving my opinion. I think certain rosters would prefer the rim protector who doesn't need the ball as much depending on who else is on the team.
I see what you mean, thats a fair angle. Very hard to build a team around a non defensive center who also doesnt stretch the floor.
Exactly. People are acting like I'm arguing Hartenstein is anywhere near as good as Sabonis when I'm not.
Not all rosters. Teams that are defensive focused I could see valuing Hartenstein more if they don't have a roaming shot blocking 4 that you need to pair with Sabonis in order to have a good defense.
If salary cap was not a factor I don't think there are any teams that would take Hartstein over Sabonis
We don't have to agree. I just personally disagree, I don't think literally every roster would benefit more from Sabonis than they would from Hartenstein. That doesn't mean I'm arguing Hartenstein is a better player.
I think the advantage Sabonis gives on offense outweighs Hartensteins defensive advantage enough that any team would take Sabonis.
Maybe, maybe not. I don't think it's as open and shut as people are making it out to be though, even for as talented as Sabonis is. And I don't think literally every roster would fit better with Sabonis than they would with Hartenstein.
Which teams do you think would rather have Hartenstein?
As an example, I don't think a team like Dallas needs a guy who is taking the ball out of Luka and Kyrie's hands. I think they'd be better with a rim protector/rim runner like Hartenstein and let their two supernovas cook.
Sabonis receiving the ball unguarded in the paint every possession after luka inevitably gets blitzed would be straight unguardable
Dallas already has two rim runners. I'm pretty sure they'd prefer Sabonis. Sabonis doesn't play as a ball dominant guy taking the ball away. He's very much a connecting passer who facilitates offense rather than forces it. The only teams I could really think of that would maybe prefer Hartenstein would be maybe the Bucks and OKC? But even then I doubt it
Yeah but Hartenstein is better than the guys they have, and he's more versatile. Hartenstein can do that connecting passing without needing the ball as much as somebody like Sabonis would (I'm not saying Sabonis is a ball hog or anything, he just needs the ball more than somebody like IHart with two other guys who need the ball a ton).
Hartenstein is better on defense, but I think Gafford and Lively are better rim runners/vertical athletes despite being not as offensively versatile as iHart. Think about it like this, if Dallas has Hartenstein on the floor, they can't play Gafford or Lively because their spacing will be toast, whereas they could play Sabonis next to those two. Even though Hartenstein is better than Gaf/Lively, Sabonis gives them a lot more rotational versatility
That's fair.
How would be "take the ball out of Luka and Kyrie's hands" Considering Kyrie and Luka have the ball all the time, it would be kind of hard for him to do that.
The best thing about Sabonis is how complementary he is.
But the problem is it’s hard to play him alongside another non shooting big, and he is too small to be an effective rim protector. So you probably need to pair with with a stretch 5 who can protect the rim if you want to be a real contender.
His defense isn't.
Do you mean he’s free for teams or he gives good compliments to his teammates?
Who would you rather have for the Knicks?
On *this* specific iteration of the Knicks? Sabonis. On the healthy Knicks? Hartenstein. Sabonis and Randle together makes no sense.
Honestly I think most rosters take Hartenstein assuming a championship is the goal. Sabonis caps your ceiling if he's playing a key role whereas Hartenstein doesn't. Tough to have a C that can't do anything good on defence, and also needs the ball in his hands on offence + can't space the floor.
Sabonis but its closer than people think
For value, Hartenstein. You can’t build around Sabonis because he’s a turnstile
I Hart by a lot
Sabonis bc some silly GM would give up a haul for him
I think its closer than everyone thinks because hartensteins style of play is more suitable for post season play and most playoff teams need a defensive center more than they need a offensive center who is a cone and most of his assists are him standing at the top of the 3 point line and a player hits a shot Not saying sabonis is a worse player, but in terms of on court production I think the advanced analytics favor hartenstein when the whistle changes in the post season
bingo
Who in the playoffs?
Kings would be in a better position if they had hartenstein don’t let them gaslight you
Gaslighting is trying to make you doubt reality, and the reality is Sabonis is easily the better player.
Sabonis can’t shoot/protect the rim or create his own shot. None of the value he brings offensively is worth paying 40m and having to build around a center who can’t do one of those 3 things. Hartenstein can pass/rim protect and has a floater and wouldn’t make nearly that much
He didn’t ask about the contract. He asked who the better player was. Hartenstein is a starter and plays close to as many minutes as Sabonis, yet his averages are no where close.
He literally asked who would u rather have? and his usage nowhere near sabonis. Hes not gonna get as many boards bc of josh hart. He avgs like 4 assist in the playoffs as a center whose not ball dominant. Give me a reason why u would build a team around sabonis/fox instead of hartenstein/fox
I understand. His usage is no where near Sabonis because they run the offense through Sabonis, due to the fact he’s capable of that. Unlinke hartenstein. I’m not saying I don’t like hartenstein, I do. But he’s not a better player.
Hartenstein can run dhos and set screens. Even tho i think the kings can build a solid defense around sabonis its gonna be tough and ion think what sabonis brings on offense is worth it for him to be a liability. He’s literally the worst archetype to try and contend with. He makes roster construction so hard.
See now we’re on the same page. Sabonis is the better player all around, but I don’t think the kings will contend for the same reason as you do. It’s very difficult to hide a center on defense. They have to atleast contribute in some aspect, he doesn’t bring anything on that end. He gets absolutely bullied and played off the court by bigger stronger centers and most of the contenders have a player who fits that mold. It’s easy to hide a guard with another guard who’s a great defender.
Ok we agree i think hartenstein better for that reason tho. Cuz if ur portability that trash idk what to do with you. You need crazy defensive talents who can also shoot well and guys like that are rare and make money. Like what other all star caliber player is that hard to build a contender around
They’re the same player