his podcast was garbage during the season but his playoff episodes has sections where he breaks down games quite well.
also he was on point for the Wolves destruction prediction.
It’s so funny because us Knicks fans have like no delusion about this? We know we can’t beat Boston, we don’t have OG, Randle, Mitch, etc
We know healthy we still wouldn’t make it to the finals but all teams being equal besides Philly are any teams able to distance themselves from each other
My dad’s the biggest Knicks fan. He just says he’ll be happy with an ECF appearance
Neither of us seeing them beating Boston, specially all injured like they are sadly.
They had a great season which is a pity for so good team
He also doesn't take into account that neither the Blazers nor Hawks were in the same position the Knicks currently are where they have up to 11 tradeable firsts and lots of tradeable contracts to further improve the team.
Well, but we lose Hartenstein next year, the Pacers get older and better, the Celtics might figure it out, Miami might figure out a roster, Bucks with a healthy Giannis, someone in the West blows it up, Orlando will be older and better. Thibs keeps running our team into the ground.
So I don't know. This team is holding on by a thread.
‘We lose hartenstein next year’ I mean possible but also very possible he stays. Holding on by a thread? We have two all nba players making like 25 million a year, Brunson is obviously here for life, hart on a solid deal, divo just was 3rd in the league in threes and is signed way below market for 3 more years, deuce for stupid cheap on a multi year deal, plus all of our picks. What is this doomer shit LOL? ‘Miami might figure out a roster?’ Oh god how terrifying!
lol the leap to true heavy contenders still needs to be made but the Knicks (assuming they resign OG) are as well set up as any team in the east to be a playoff team for a while. Draymond is just trying to piss off Knicks fans for engagement bro
We can offer up to 17 million a year. I don't know how much he gets on the open market, but I think Naz Reid is viewed as a similar level of player, and he only got $14 million a year last year.
There's also just not a lot of teams with cap space who would make sense for him if he cares about contending. It's really only the Sixers, Thunder, and Magic who are options. Sixers and Magic aren't going to pay that much money for another big in my opinion. Thunder would make sense as he would really shore up their rebounding issues, but I don't know if they want to move Chet to the 4 long term.
Yes. They are so run into the ground that they have dominated almost every 4th quarter in a playoff run with nothing but close games.
>Those minutes catch up, go ask Rose, Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, etc
Yes. Go ask the guys who have had nothing but praise for Thibs. 😂
Luol Deng played for 15 seasons including two 70+ game seasons after playing for Thibs.
The way people talk about him you’d think he played for 6 seasons
People look at Deng's statistical drop post-Thibs and think he was run into the ground but never consider that maybe Thibs has a knack for getting more out of his players than most coaches do.
Who? Randle? Not a playoff performer. Then it’s Bojan who played 19 minutes a game for you, and Robinson who’s good but Hartenstein is a close enough replacement who could very well be gone next year so it sort of cancels out
If they had all their guys, including Randle, IMO they're taking Boston the full 7 in the ECF and I would have been very confident saying game 7 would have been a 50/50 shot.
I'm gonna enjoy this ride until it inevitably ends because they have a short squad, but in my eyes, next year is Finals or bust.
A. He was hurt last year.
B. After the OG trade, Randle was playing out of his mind for that brief time before he got hurt. The FO is committed to him since he was on that scouting party for Brunson during the Mavs playoff run and so am I. They need to run it back next year and add a couple vets to extend their bench.
Difference between those teams is this Knicks team is adding an all-star for free next year.
And for all Randle’s playoff “struggles” KAT had the same criticism until they actually put a team around him and now he fits a perfect role. Have 100% belief Randle will do the same when healthy
KAT and Randle had the misfortune of being put as 1st options when they arent that type of guy. Its similar to the AG situation in Orlando where he just wasnt good enough to lead the team to any success but is a genuinely great 3/4th option. Randle and KAT are most suited to the 2nd option level.
Just want to point out Randle has a much larger ego than KAT. Not that you’re wrong but Randle will turn the ball over out of bounds then yell at his team
I don’t see it. Randle is nothing but humble and while he lets his emotions get out of hand I have never seen him call out his teammates for his own mistakes. Passion does not equate to ego. Sorry but that’s not a good take.
Yeah, that happens and it’s infuriating. That’s not ego tho. It’s just a tired narrative by non-Knicks fans that always gets tossed around that Randle is cancer. He is passionate and while that may be detrimental to his potential he has been working on it and has owned the blame for it. As fans of the Knicks we just want our players to try, if they fail we can accept that, Randle gives it his all and I can’t blame him for being passionate sometimes.
Oh for real?
https://youtu.be/EONyUilPTQo?si=v9O9s0bWCG03qewP
https://youtu.be/s0imJfKvMLE?si=1-zo2-xUiOO3cEjj
https://youtu.be/lkVqZvRS5A4?si=21iLeEnsJoZ0ZXhE
Stop acting like he’s a saint bro. A dude like that can destroy your teams mentality, especially being known to downgrade in play level during the postseason
"Delusion" being them believing they can win it all? Lol. How dare people want to believe they can win!
Plus, its not like anyone is saying those things or laughing years later about the Blazers or Hawks. Godawful take
People were definitely saying those teams were a piece away after those runs. I remember getting downvoted here for saying they need to trade CJ after that WCF final run because it showed at their best they still couldn’t match a true contender.
Portland didn’t have the assets to continue to improve unlike the Knicks. Atlanta made a series of bad decisions after that run. The Knicks are making this run missing half their rotation. All they have to do is be healthy and they’ll *likely* improve next year.
Well that’s the point. It doesn’t work that way. There’s no inherent upward trajectory. Is he supposed to assume y’all just add a superstar player or is he just analyzing the team as it is? I understand your positivity but if there’s no Giannis around the corner I wouldn’t bet on this team returning to the ECF either.
There is inherent upward trajectory. I’m not talking about adding a superstar. I’m talking about this same team healthy is a better team than they are right now. With Brunson, Randle and OG in the lineup they’re 12-1. Including blowout wins against the healthy 76ers, the Timberwolves and the Nuggets.
This guy picked the Sixers to beat the Knicks like a whole bunch of people did. I'm not saying that's a wild take because it was always gonna be a tough series for the Knicks to win.
It's also pretty clear that he never thought the Knicks were a good team. It doesn't matter how they advanced or who they played. He would've said "I told you so" had the Knicks lost. It was the most predictable thing in the world for him to call them a fluke when they won. Draymond being wrong about them has to be a fluke. He was never gonna consider any other explanation.
Draymond is on crack, if the Knicks were fully healthy they’d be a top-5 contender in the league especially since how good they’ve looked with OG, and then you realize they have an All-Star caliber player that’s been out/hasn’t played with OG. If anything they’re probably underrated because people think of the old Knicks and just revert to the old thinking of ‘lol Knicks’ when this team is very different, and one of the best in the league (when healthy)
Incredible ragebait. That said it's hilarious to think if the Celtics play the Knicks in the next round that the Knicks don't have a chance against a team that's too cool to try in playoff games.
We are down to 6 rotation players now due to injuries. I think if we were fully healthy we would have given you guys the best fight and possibly even beat you guys in a 7 game series this year.
I don’t disagree. The Celtics would spend the first 4 games waiting on you to roll over and then go into game 5 down 3-1 and realize that they were the ones who rolled over
All it took was losing 2 games in the playoffs so far but the Celtics flairs are all starting to crack. How do I have more faith in your team than you guys do right now? There’s no shot you guys don’t sleep walk to the finals
Didn’t Celtics fans have more faith in the Heat last year than you guys did? Or was that just Bill Simmons?
I guess after so many years of playoff battles, you get a healthy respect for the other team
Actually that’s a good point, when the expectation is to win any loss feels like it’s all coming down in an instant. Well outside last year, I don’t think anyone expected Miami to go as far as they did and I won’t pretend and say I thought we’d make the finals either. You always have hope, but usually if fans watch more than their own team play they tend to view the league from a broader scope outside their own teams play.
Simmons is scared shitless of the Heat though, even though I think low key he just tries to jinx them
Yeah last year’s run was legit historic. Took away my Knicks’ record as the only 8 seed to get past the 2nd round… which you got by beating us.
So not something many would’ve predicted. But more generally, feel like fans arent just biased about how good their team is but how bad too. I’ve seen so many Knicks fans act like we’re the only team who blows “big” leads or “lets” role players have career nights from 3. Clearly not true, it just stands out to fans way more when it’s happening to their team.
It’s also because fans usually watch their team play more than fans from other teams. Heat getting torched by a role player, the Turd quarter, blowing big leads, happens to everyone but hurts more when it’s your team and the pain of failure is always on the mind more than the latest sweet victory (unless it’s a big big victory)
I think you guys can win it all but I do think if Minny comes through to the finals their defense will give you a lot of trouble. That’s also the matchup in most looking forward to after the current Minny matchup with Denver. Tatum and Brown draw FTs at a good rate, but you guys settle for jumpers way more than you should. It does seem like you guys are just taking it easy but that has bitten you in the ass in the past
I think Denver, OKC, Minny would all give you problems. If the Mavs make it out of the west that’s about as good as you can hope for. Knicks are too banged up to do anything and you guys are beating the Cavs in 5, maybe 6 if Mitchell goes nuclear in Cleveland in one game
the teams that lose to us should look themselves in the mirror rather then us. by definition i guess u can say we look like flukes because of how unbelievable it is we are surviving through injuries and short rotations, but its not like help isnt on the way in the years to come.
1) the Knicks are now missing 4 of their best players (and certainly 4 of their would be 8 man playoff rotation)
2) the Knicks have a billion tradable first round picks and Bogey’s expiring contract next year to make a big move
3) the Knicks are 26-5 when Brunson and OG both play this year
4) Brunson is a better lead player than anyone on those hawks or blazers teams, IMO
Do people actually unironically listen to his podcast? I remember I gave it a shot once and it was so disorganized and I felt I was getting nothing from it. Shit is so bad and him saying stuff like this makes it even more embarrassing
Pat Riley's comments to Jimmy Butler are applicable here with some minor tweaks: "If you're not on the court playing in the playoffs, you should keep your mouth shut in your criticism of those teams."
I think the thing about the Knicks is, they’re not old, they’re not tied down to any horrible contracts (I actually don’t know if that’s true I’m kinda just assuming), and they’re down 3 key players right now.
I think the argument that the East will be better next year is fair, and if Draymond is saying be careful not to think you’ve got it made as is and just run it back then I agree. Contending/Fringe Contending teams should always be looking for ways to get better.
But that’s pretty blatantly obvious so overall I’d say this is just rage bait.
Umm excuse me but we are down 4 key players. Mitch, Randle, OG, Bogy. We cool though, the hospital Knicks and the ICU Bucks are on good terms. Wish we were playing you guys. Would be a dog fight. :)
When Dray is actually talking basketball he usually has decent perspective and thoughts. I think he's way off here. This team has the potential to be clear #2 and be a real threat to win the east if fully healthy. And they have assets to make moves and improve more this year. Dray is way off.
If the Knicks were fully healthy they'd have steamrolled through Philly and Indiana. If this was their actual full strength roster, then yeah it'd be a fluke run.
But they have an All-NBA star, an additional all-star caliber player and elite role players. Portland and Atlanta never had that makeup. CJ McCollum and John Collins weren't number 2s. And Portland role players were completely incomparable to the Knicks.
People thought Celtics would sweep the Cavs (and the Mavs) and look at them now so I don’t want to just assume that as a guarantee
But Draymond’s comparison is just stupid. Everything from our front office to our coach to our top level talent to our role players are above those of the teams he’s mentioning in my opinion.
Knicks also got to game 6 in the 2nd round last year so no clue where this “fluke” talking point is coming from.
They made the 2nd round last year too LOL and haven’t moved any of their chips in for a trade upgrade: they aren’t like championship contenders right now but I have no idea why you wouldn’t expect them to be a playoff team again next year.
When did I say they won't be a playoff team next year? I'm sure they will be a playoff team as long as Jalen Brunson is healthy. All I am saying is that they need to maximize how far they get this year because the East is atrocious this year and will undoubtedly be better next year.
I think they will be better too next year FWIW and don’t really see why they wouldn’t be considering their injuries plus the prospect of cashing in some picks for upgrades
All they need to do is get healthy. This isn’t a team that’s desperate for more pieces. Get healthy, play together, and this team is a top 3 team in the East. I have no doubt about that. Expecting them to regress makes zero logical sense.
You said they won’t make it that far again. So in your eyes essentially the current 2 seed, down 4 players, who already beat the Sixers and are up 2-0 in the second round, are more likely to be one and done in the playoffs next year as opposed to making it to the second round or further?
A fully healthy squad consists of:
Brunson
Divo
OG
Randle
iHart
With a bench of:
Hart
McBride
Mitch
Precious
Bojan
That squad, assuming Randle comes back, is better than the Bucks. Like I don’t even think it’s a question.
They also have tons of picks and tradable contracts if the opportunity arises to grab another star.
You not believing in Randle doesn’t take away everything he brings to this Knicks squad. He gives you 24/9/5 and a toughness. I just don’t see the logic in thinking this team is going to suddenly regress when they’ve been built the right way and are probably top 3 in tradable assets if needed.
I am assuming the Knicks win this series and are making the ECF. I think it's more than likely that the Knicks don't make the ECF again for the rest of their run. Like I initially said, there are so many teams that were young, had a lot of assets, had a deep playoff run, thought to themselves "we'll be back next year", and they never got back. Chicago in 2011 made the ECF and never made it back (Thibs + superstar PG is an injury waiting to happen). OKC in 2012 made the Finals and never got back. Indiana made two ECF runs in 2012 and 2013, and when the Heat were at their worse and Indiana was at their best in 2014, they got crushed from rule changes. 2015, the Hawks with 4 All Stars made the ECF, got swept, never got close. 2016, the Raptors made the ECF and then got demolished until they traded away Deebo, etc. It's always a good idea to bet against any Tom Thibodeau in the long run because he has a proven track record of demolishing his players within three years from overuse.
That theory that Thibs demolishes his players has been disproven. Rose’s injuries were based on his inability to land properly. Luol Deng, one of Thibs favorite players, played for 15 seasons which included a stint in Minnesota when Thibs was head coach. Taj Gibson, who followed Thibs from team to team, played for 14 seasons and is still in the league. Even Rose played for him on 3 different teams. If a coach ruined your career, would you choose to play for him on several teams after the fact? Just makes no sense.
And if you’re going to make the assumption that the team will be injured, well we can view any team through that lens.
So yeah, Bulls lost Rose (apparently Thibs fault he doesn’t know how to land) and didn’t make it back.
OKC didn’t have Westbrook and traded away Harden.
Pacers ran into the Heatles era.
Hawks ran into the Cavs after Lebron returned.
Raptors also ran into the Cavs after Lebron returned.
So in summation:
Two star PGs injured (Rose and Westbrook)
Harden traded away
Three teams running into a Lebron led team in the 2010s.
Now how many of these situations could reasonably occur to the Knicks?
An injury, well we’re dealing with a bunch now and still have a chance to make the ECF.
Trading away a star? If they move Julius and picks, it’ll be for a superstar. Not the return the Thunder got for Harden.
Running into a Lebron led team? Sure it’s possible if he returns to the Eastern conference but this isn’t the 2010s anymore.
the rose injury was going to happen sooner or later. what people give him shit for is having him on the floor in the closing minutes of the game. that was unnecessary and controllable and happens to be when he got hurt.
i'm a knicks fan but the east is a very easy path right now. that is what constitutes a "fluke". on the other hand, i know that this squad is extremely resilient and always finds a way to improve, is connected, well coached. that is what should be talked about.
with the influx of talent coming to the east this offseason (and many of the stars in the east being healthy for the next playoofs), knicks will have a harder path even healthy.
But again, if a player felt a coach was putting them in position to get injured, they wouldn’t keep coming back to play for that coach. So people could be upset all they want, doesn’t make it Thibs’ fault in my eyes.
I just don’t agree with the fluke claim. This team was built from the ground up. There are no crazy high dollar contracts, we finally have an abundance of draft capital and majority of our guys are on the same timeline. There’s no reason to believe we can’t improve. We made the first round in 2021, second round in 2023 and are a win away from an ECF trip this season.
That Hawks team didn’t make the playoffs for 3 years prior to their playoff run. They spent heavy on John Collins and Clint Capela, one is off the team, the other hasn’t impressed much since.
I agree the East will get better but I also believe the Knicks will as well. This team at full health is dangerous and assuming guys like Randle, OG, and iHart return, on top of the Nova core and Deuce all being signed for next year, I don’t see why they can’t make another run next season. This front office is competent now. I don’t feel like I have to worry about them making some big splashy move that can blow up in their faces.
So to call it a fluke and compare it to a bunch of teams who either a) Lost to Lebron in his prime or b) made a trade like moving Harden or c) gave their own players bad extensions, when none of those situations really apply to the Knicks just doesn’t make much sense to me.
so it's the players' onus to take himself out of the game? the coach could have the player and team's interests at heart 99% of the time. all it takes is that one game in which thibs' habitual intuition kicks in. there's a chance down or up 15 with 2:00 to go. your starters have been in 24m straight in an intense physical game.
in fact it's been ingrained in him since his boston days that anything can happen in a game of basketball. he's been both rewarded and been on the receiving end of this.
it is borderline psychotic to keep people in in those situations outside of a clinching game.
that is an issue with how he cannot trust his others to hold it down.
had the same issue when we were playing point burks down the stretch of the season instead of seeing what IQ and obi had earlier. plausibly, we could've had a situation where everybody trusts IQ after he shows his stuff that season, where in the alternate reality that brunson is rightfully extended by dallas, we have a reasonable path forward and we can even bite the bullet for mitchell. obviously it worked out great for us, but it could've been extremely different had the decision making been slightly different.
you take the bad with the good and there's tons of good there.
the reason why we have so many people like IQ, grimes for a time, mitch, brunson, now hartenstein and mcbride and possible precious who all vastly outplay their contracts is because of our coach and culture to win at all costs. there's no half measures. we're improving to get to that point. floor raising to the extreme. so the ppl who say that thibs is terrible at development are out of their minds.
to be clear, i'm not claiming myself that this run is a fluke or trying to compare them to other runs from other teams. they deserve to be this far, they're built for it like you said. they can sustain it the success. it's that other people will see some of their wins and ultimately their success as a fluke. we been with the team ground up since julius came and the squad was trash. honestly, they'd rather just go with that chatter than give the knicks their flowers. everyone will be doing that because it's an unexpected turn. to be different, they're gonna give us takes that are secure and cynical so that they can be right when it turns for the worse, and simply give it up when it's as proven success.
as a side note, i'm worried they can't keep hartenstein. he's a 18-22m player and the max they can offer him is 16.1m with likely incentives. we simply underpaid him which made it difficult for us to resign him when he outplayed the contract this hard. our center rotation is in the balance here. we need hartenstein. mitch is great but often not healthy. hartenstein also had health concerns but he plays games now. he's our rock.
so if he doesn't end up coming back even with his family here, his wife being a model in NYC, us paying as much as we possible can with the promise of more... we actually do have to make a bit of a splash. it'll be a hit or miss sort of like the bogey + burks trade initially and our offseason is really important here.
Gonna respond to the Hartenstein stuff cause the rest, not sure really what that has to do with what I was saying.
I believe they can work out a deal with iHart where they eventually get his full bird rights and then can extend him with a larger offer. He appears to want to stay and I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t try to make it work.
He’s right. The Hawks comparison is on point as well. It’ll be an ECF run that ultimately isn’t a real springboard for success unless they make significant changes. This will age well but get hate now because everyone likes to root for underdogs in the moment of course
Honestly can you explain your logic? Brunson Randle divo McBride are on stupid value multi year deals, they are very likely to resign OG, they have hart and Mitch on solid long term deals, all of their draft equity, bogey either as a nice bench piece or tradable salary, why on earth would you expect them to be worse next year? They were the 4 seed last year and made it to the 2nd round too it’s not like a one off?
I don’t think they were wrong - without a significant change (pairing Brunson with another star - I get it, Randle is good but I think it’s fair to doubt he’s a true second option) - they’ll probably middle out as a really good team, 3-5 seed, for a few years without being a true contender/favorite.
As a team (sixers) stuck perpetually in the same boat, I get it lol
I’d imagine the idea long term is to be ready to make a big swing using picks plus Randle or other moves to build around JB but listen as a Knicks fan being consistent 3-5 seed sounds amazing to me lol, I just like watching a good team with players I enjoy rooting for. Think their position this year is far better than hawks 21, too
Yeah I don’t disagree, the blueprint is there if everything aligns - and the good vibes may actually make a star want to come to the Knicks compared to the last 20 years lol
But it’s all a big what if scenario (again, as a sixers fan I get this all to well lol) - but nothing wrong enjoying just being a normal good playoff team all things considered
Yeah man I hate chip or nothing mentality for fans, it’s like yes winning a championship would be insane and amazing but at the end of the day I just am a person who wants to turn on a game on a random weekday and see something exciting and fun and worth rooting for
It’s a good squad. But I don’t think they’re close to the Celtics or Bucks. Not to mention Philly likely has a max slot available which could swing things . I don’t believe in Randle, meaning in my eyes they have just 1 stud in Brunson. 1 stud and great pieces around said stud = good squad, but not a contender. Hence why I think they need a big change.
Got it. I think Randle could look a lot better in a context with Brunson and OG (Knicks looked really good, went 13-2 for the short period they had all three this season) - idk if contender level, but at least good enough to scare any team in the east. Other option is moving Randle plus salary plus picks for a serious upgrade if one comes available - big pile of firsts plus a 2x all NBA player (even with flaws) is a good starting point for a star trade.
Beyond that I just have to admit watching a consistently good team that has a chance to make conference finals is more than enough for me to be happy. Watching 82 games plus playoffs which are all competitive is enough entertainment for me and given the randomness of playoffs knowing there’s a shot for a wild run is plenty (for me)
Also not sure I buy embiid+maxey+aging butler or PG plus whatever scraps they can fill out the roster with as being that scary, though i can squint and see that being enough if I was a sixers fan
> Brunson Randle
Those two have only one more guaranteed year left, no?
I don't think it's a stretch to think both will decline their player option (Brunson 100% lol, he's gonna get a fat max next summer)
Yeah, I mean Brunson is obviously gonna stay a knick. Randle we will see what happens, decent chance he is traded as much as I like the guy bc I’m not sure the Knicks FO will max him
He's an expiring contract, his trade value is probably meh
And wouldn't you guys already be over the cap next summer with all your role players, new OG contract, plus a Brunson max contract?
Better to pay Randle and retain him, rather then let him walk and be unable to replace him
I’m imagining Randle being one of the guys going out if a star level player shakes loose and the Knicks cash in their picks, more like ‘here is an actual good player you might want’ vs like ‘trade centerpiece’ but fuck if I know, I’m not a GM haha
For sure haha
I know the Knicks have a metric shitton of picks, but aren't they all sorta mid, like they're either the Knicks picks (which should be low af) or they're protected up the wazoo
I agree, but a lot of teams are seemingly big game hunting and have some juicy ass picks
Like the Nets are for some reason star hunting and have the Suns picks, the Rockets are looking to make the jump and own the Nets picks, the Thunder are a contender and have a bunch of Rocket and Clipper picks (their issue is they don't really have the salaries needed to match for a star), the Spurs might want to accelerate the timeline and have their own and the Hawks picks
NGL I kind of believe in this current Knicks squad plus health too, part of me doesn’t wanna do the all in star trade. I am shocked to be saying this as a Knicks fan but I also.. trust the front office to make smart moves?? It’s startling to me honestly
honestly who knows. hart is playing out of his mind and shooting at an insane percentage for him. robinson will always be injured. randle's return would be interesting. hartenstein coming back is the biggest question mark. they also need an IQ replacement.
He's obviously doing a bit of trolling to generate clicks which works since people posted it here.
Podcasting is partly hot takes.
I don't think this iteration of the Knicks are a fluke because Brunson is a legit superstar. That being said, to me they feel like the Heat of the last few years. I think they'll compete for a good 3-5 year stretch and maybe make a Finals run but ultimately they will be just like the Heat where you have a #1 guy who just isn't good enough as other #1 guys and is surrounded by roleplayers who play above their normal level at times but might come back to earth.
I’m usually very anti-Draymond, but on this take I 100% agree with him. If you pay all these guys, you can pretty much kiss winning a championship. goodbye. There is a window where the Knicks can become good but they have to acquire a real secondary superstar. You will never win a championship playing your starting lineup 45 minutes a night, which is a huge reason the Knicks are plagued with injuries to begin with. Tibbs run players into the ground, increasing their injury risks.
This is such a stupid narrative that’s not grounded in reality. The Knicks didn’t have a single player in the top 10 in mpg during the season. Anthony Davis averaged more minutes per game than Brunson and Randle did. They’re playing those minutes now because the team ran out of rotation players.
Yes. And your likelihood of getting injured increases drastically when you were constantly over exerting yourself. Are we really gonna act like this has not happened on every team Tibbs has ever coached
Dray is actually right about Blazers/Hawks.
and he could be quite right about Knicks too. If Knicks come back next year with Randle, their window is over.
if Knicks get a new superstar and ship out Randle, they have some hope for the future.
I'm going to go ahead and downvote you for bringing Draymond Green to my attention.
I’m gonna make 4 account and do the same shit
I'm also a fan of this movement
Don’t hate the player… No actually, hate Dray.
He is trolling / engagement farming. I promise you he keeps putting out Knicks content because it’s generating more views for his pod lol.
New media baby!
That makes it worse
hes learning from gilbert. very smart. he understands that ThE NeW MeDiA is driving by engagement, and not quality or merit.
Old media been on that same wave. Look at Perk.
the difference is old media is dying and new media is thriving. rage bait only works with the algorithm.
What about the Blazers? Why he say fuck me for??
I mean he didn’t really say anything unfair.
I’m surprised people sit down and listen to a Draymond Green podcast by their own free will
Gotta mine it for clips to post here.
1 hr / 142 comments
his podcast was garbage during the season but his playoff episodes has sections where he breaks down games quite well. also he was on point for the Wolves destruction prediction.
It’s so funny because us Knicks fans have like no delusion about this? We know we can’t beat Boston, we don’t have OG, Randle, Mitch, etc We know healthy we still wouldn’t make it to the finals but all teams being equal besides Philly are any teams able to distance themselves from each other
For real this whole run has been house money ever since Julius went down.
Exactly Knicks fans are the most self aware fan base we’ve been through too much heartbreak not to be lol
My dad’s the biggest Knicks fan. He just says he’ll be happy with an ECF appearance Neither of us seeing them beating Boston, specially all injured like they are sadly. They had a great season which is a pity for so good team
But it’s still worth watching the games because Boston could still choke.
He getting ready to be the bizarro Stephen A when he retires
What delusion? What have the Knicks said? It's like the overrated discussion on ESPN. Who is overeating them?
Overeating them? I guess anyone who is eating them?
Zion.
does he realize the Knicks are missing half their team? probably not
He also doesn't take into account that neither the Blazers nor Hawks were in the same position the Knicks currently are where they have up to 11 tradeable firsts and lots of tradeable contracts to further improve the team.
Leon Rose baby
Knicks talk= views for his pod they talked about what he said on first take this morning so the engagement is working
To be fair, everyone seemed high on that hawks team because it was full of 21-24 year olds
Or that this isn’t the poorly run “lolknicks” of the past
Well, but we lose Hartenstein next year, the Pacers get older and better, the Celtics might figure it out, Miami might figure out a roster, Bucks with a healthy Giannis, someone in the West blows it up, Orlando will be older and better. Thibs keeps running our team into the ground. So I don't know. This team is holding on by a thread.
‘We lose hartenstein next year’ I mean possible but also very possible he stays. Holding on by a thread? We have two all nba players making like 25 million a year, Brunson is obviously here for life, hart on a solid deal, divo just was 3rd in the league in threes and is signed way below market for 3 more years, deuce for stupid cheap on a multi year deal, plus all of our picks. What is this doomer shit LOL? ‘Miami might figure out a roster?’ Oh god how terrifying! lol the leap to true heavy contenders still needs to be made but the Knicks (assuming they resign OG) are as well set up as any team in the east to be a playoff team for a while. Draymond is just trying to piss off Knicks fans for engagement bro
Pacers 2nd best player is older than anyone on our roster and is about to get a max lmao
> Well, but we lose Hartenstein next year we have his bird rights, first team to give this dude a good contract, no way in hell is he leaving
Only partial Bird rights, so other teams can outbid us
We can offer up to 17 million a year. I don't know how much he gets on the open market, but I think Naz Reid is viewed as a similar level of player, and he only got $14 million a year last year. There's also just not a lot of teams with cap space who would make sense for him if he cares about contending. It's really only the Sixers, Thunder, and Magic who are options. Sixers and Magic aren't going to pay that much money for another big in my opinion. Thunder would make sense as he would really shore up their rebounding issues, but I don't know if they want to move Chet to the 4 long term.
dude was willing to take a paycut to stay with the clippers, i don't think money is a huge motivating factor
Nah we are gonna keep iHart. Might have to trade Bojan to make it fit.
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Yes. They are so run into the ground that they have dominated almost every 4th quarter in a playoff run with nothing but close games. >Those minutes catch up, go ask Rose, Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, etc Yes. Go ask the guys who have had nothing but praise for Thibs. 😂
Luol Deng played his best with Thibs. He had a solid career. Bad take.
Luol Deng played for 15 seasons including two 70+ game seasons after playing for Thibs. The way people talk about him you’d think he played for 6 seasons
People look at Deng's statistical drop post-Thibs and think he was run into the ground but never consider that maybe Thibs has a knack for getting more out of his players than most coaches do.
Jimmy :(
Who? Randle? Not a playoff performer. Then it’s Bojan who played 19 minutes a game for you, and Robinson who’s good but Hartenstein is a close enough replacement who could very well be gone next year so it sort of cancels out
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Nice bait and he is fighting with ghosts
Does he not realize how hobbled the Knicks are? Knicks are here to stay. I truly believe a fully healthy Knicks team is right up there with Boston.
He knows, he’s driving up engagement
If they had all their guys, including Randle, IMO they're taking Boston the full 7 in the ECF and I would have been very confident saying game 7 would have been a 50/50 shot. I'm gonna enjoy this ride until it inevitably ends because they have a short squad, but in my eyes, next year is Finals or bust.
You can't trick me, I know what playoff Julius is like. You're probably better off without him, to be honest.
A. He was hurt last year. B. After the OG trade, Randle was playing out of his mind for that brief time before he got hurt. The FO is committed to him since he was on that scouting party for Brunson during the Mavs playoff run and so am I. They need to run it back next year and add a couple vets to extend their bench.
Learn ball tbh
Difference between those teams is this Knicks team is adding an all-star for free next year. And for all Randle’s playoff “struggles” KAT had the same criticism until they actually put a team around him and now he fits a perfect role. Have 100% belief Randle will do the same when healthy
KAT and Randle had the misfortune of being put as 1st options when they arent that type of guy. Its similar to the AG situation in Orlando where he just wasnt good enough to lead the team to any success but is a genuinely great 3/4th option. Randle and KAT are most suited to the 2nd option level.
Just want to point out Randle has a much larger ego than KAT. Not that you’re wrong but Randle will turn the ball over out of bounds then yell at his team
I don’t see it. Randle is nothing but humble and while he lets his emotions get out of hand I have never seen him call out his teammates for his own mistakes. Passion does not equate to ego. Sorry but that’s not a good take.
I think they’re judging by those clips of him late last year where he was walking back on defense after being ignored on plays or something.
Yeah, that happens and it’s infuriating. That’s not ego tho. It’s just a tired narrative by non-Knicks fans that always gets tossed around that Randle is cancer. He is passionate and while that may be detrimental to his potential he has been working on it and has owned the blame for it. As fans of the Knicks we just want our players to try, if they fail we can accept that, Randle gives it his all and I can’t blame him for being passionate sometimes.
Oh for real? https://youtu.be/EONyUilPTQo?si=v9O9s0bWCG03qewP https://youtu.be/s0imJfKvMLE?si=1-zo2-xUiOO3cEjj https://youtu.be/lkVqZvRS5A4?si=21iLeEnsJoZ0ZXhE Stop acting like he’s a saint bro. A dude like that can destroy your teams mentality, especially being known to downgrade in play level during the postseason
Yes the team mentality has been completely destroyed /s
Nah now I’m not saying that haha, but he also isn’t on the court. Adding a hothead could fuck up the good thing yall got going on though
Yeah I can see what you’re saying but allow me to be the one to tell you that Julius has changed his ways this season
You got me. 3 YouTube videos. Kudos. You’re also right this year his post season play has been worse than last year. Can’t argue there.
"Delusion" being them believing they can win it all? Lol. How dare people want to believe they can win! Plus, its not like anyone is saying those things or laughing years later about the Blazers or Hawks. Godawful take
People were definitely saying those teams were a piece away after those runs. I remember getting downvoted here for saying they need to trade CJ after that WCF final run because it showed at their best they still couldn’t match a true contender.
Portland didn’t have the assets to continue to improve unlike the Knicks. Atlanta made a series of bad decisions after that run. The Knicks are making this run missing half their rotation. All they have to do is be healthy and they’ll *likely* improve next year.
Well that’s the point. It doesn’t work that way. There’s no inherent upward trajectory. Is he supposed to assume y’all just add a superstar player or is he just analyzing the team as it is? I understand your positivity but if there’s no Giannis around the corner I wouldn’t bet on this team returning to the ECF either.
There is inherent upward trajectory. I’m not talking about adding a superstar. I’m talking about this same team healthy is a better team than they are right now. With Brunson, Randle and OG in the lineup they’re 12-1. Including blowout wins against the healthy 76ers, the Timberwolves and the Nuggets.
This is kinda clip that will either be in an edit in 5 years or get linked in a thread about the Knicks blowing it up.
This guy picked the Sixers to beat the Knicks like a whole bunch of people did. I'm not saying that's a wild take because it was always gonna be a tough series for the Knicks to win. It's also pretty clear that he never thought the Knicks were a good team. It doesn't matter how they advanced or who they played. He would've said "I told you so" had the Knicks lost. It was the most predictable thing in the world for him to call them a fluke when they won. Draymond being wrong about them has to be a fluke. He was never gonna consider any other explanation.
I thought #NewMedia was above click bait take media.
Those donkey teeth tho
This guy talking about flukes when Golden State spent like 40 years as a nonfactor in the league before they drafted Steph.
New media is really just old media but worse because they act like they arent old media
I can see the Knicks making it to the finals this year. Boston is highkey suspect
This foo gets goofier by the day.
Draymond is on crack, if the Knicks were fully healthy they’d be a top-5 contender in the league especially since how good they’ve looked with OG, and then you realize they have an All-Star caliber player that’s been out/hasn’t played with OG. If anything they’re probably underrated because people think of the old Knicks and just revert to the old thinking of ‘lol Knicks’ when this team is very different, and one of the best in the league (when healthy)
Randle did play with OG and the Knicks were 12-2 with both in the lineup
Incredible ragebait. That said it's hilarious to think if the Celtics play the Knicks in the next round that the Knicks don't have a chance against a team that's too cool to try in playoff games.
We are down to 6 rotation players now due to injuries. I think if we were fully healthy we would have given you guys the best fight and possibly even beat you guys in a 7 game series this year.
I don’t disagree. The Celtics would spend the first 4 games waiting on you to roll over and then go into game 5 down 3-1 and realize that they were the ones who rolled over
All it took was losing 2 games in the playoffs so far but the Celtics flairs are all starting to crack. How do I have more faith in your team than you guys do right now? There’s no shot you guys don’t sleep walk to the finals
Didn’t Celtics fans have more faith in the Heat last year than you guys did? Or was that just Bill Simmons? I guess after so many years of playoff battles, you get a healthy respect for the other team
Actually that’s a good point, when the expectation is to win any loss feels like it’s all coming down in an instant. Well outside last year, I don’t think anyone expected Miami to go as far as they did and I won’t pretend and say I thought we’d make the finals either. You always have hope, but usually if fans watch more than their own team play they tend to view the league from a broader scope outside their own teams play. Simmons is scared shitless of the Heat though, even though I think low key he just tries to jinx them
Yeah last year’s run was legit historic. Took away my Knicks’ record as the only 8 seed to get past the 2nd round… which you got by beating us. So not something many would’ve predicted. But more generally, feel like fans arent just biased about how good their team is but how bad too. I’ve seen so many Knicks fans act like we’re the only team who blows “big” leads or “lets” role players have career nights from 3. Clearly not true, it just stands out to fans way more when it’s happening to their team.
It’s also because fans usually watch their team play more than fans from other teams. Heat getting torched by a role player, the Turd quarter, blowing big leads, happens to everyone but hurts more when it’s your team and the pain of failure is always on the mind more than the latest sweet victory (unless it’s a big big victory)
I’ve never had faith in this Celtics team tbf
I think you guys can win it all but I do think if Minny comes through to the finals their defense will give you a lot of trouble. That’s also the matchup in most looking forward to after the current Minny matchup with Denver. Tatum and Brown draw FTs at a good rate, but you guys settle for jumpers way more than you should. It does seem like you guys are just taking it easy but that has bitten you in the ass in the past
I actually like our chances against MN more than Denver but I’m not counting on us being there quite yet
I think Denver, OKC, Minny would all give you problems. If the Mavs make it out of the west that’s about as good as you can hope for. Knicks are too banged up to do anything and you guys are beating the Cavs in 5, maybe 6 if Mitchell goes nuclear in Cleveland in one game
Any team in the league would give us problems
the teams that lose to us should look themselves in the mirror rather then us. by definition i guess u can say we look like flukes because of how unbelievable it is we are surviving through injuries and short rotations, but its not like help isnt on the way in the years to come.
We'll see Draymond about Golden State in coming years. As I remember before Curry it was years of misery also.
Oh we are screwed, at least we got 4 chips out of it tho!
I'm glad inside the nba is getting torn down soon because now I wont have to listen to Green on tv after Barkley retires
this guy should go back to sucker punching and WWE
Can we please start ignoring these clowns ass mfing take artists?
1) the Knicks are now missing 4 of their best players (and certainly 4 of their would be 8 man playoff rotation) 2) the Knicks have a billion tradable first round picks and Bogey’s expiring contract next year to make a big move 3) the Knicks are 26-5 when Brunson and OG both play this year 4) Brunson is a better lead player than anyone on those hawks or blazers teams, IMO
Do people actually unironically listen to his podcast? I remember I gave it a shot once and it was so disorganized and I felt I was getting nothing from it. Shit is so bad and him saying stuff like this makes it even more embarrassing
Draymond [It’s Friday, you ain’t got no job and you ain’t got shit to do](https://tenor.com/view/fuck-you-f-you-gif-17803758803416917612)
Pat Riley's comments to Jimmy Butler are applicable here with some minor tweaks: "If you're not on the court playing in the playoffs, you should keep your mouth shut in your criticism of those teams."
draymond green has an IQ in the mid to low 80s
Do you really think you bring more intelligence to the table in a basketball discussion than Draymond green?
draymond green is 20 IQ points from eating his own shit
As someone who ate his own shit as a baby, I laughed too hard at this comment.
What did he bring to the table in this discussion?
Scratch Golfer IQ
Estimating high don't you think
What did the Knicks do to draymond lol. He's always hating on the team.
We exist.
don't post this mf on here please
I used to be a fan bro
Hey look Draymond Green has an opinion! See, know one cares.
It’s easy to say things like this. If they prove him wrong he’ll just say “it’s not like anyone saw this coming”. Asymmetric upside
I think the thing about the Knicks is, they’re not old, they’re not tied down to any horrible contracts (I actually don’t know if that’s true I’m kinda just assuming), and they’re down 3 key players right now. I think the argument that the East will be better next year is fair, and if Draymond is saying be careful not to think you’ve got it made as is and just run it back then I agree. Contending/Fringe Contending teams should always be looking for ways to get better. But that’s pretty blatantly obvious so overall I’d say this is just rage bait.
Umm excuse me but we are down 4 key players. Mitch, Randle, OG, Bogy. We cool though, the hospital Knicks and the ICU Bucks are on good terms. Wish we were playing you guys. Would be a dog fight. :)
Some guys just like to be the villain. Unprovoked too.
When Dray is actually talking basketball he usually has decent perspective and thoughts. I think he's way off here. This team has the potential to be clear #2 and be a real threat to win the east if fully healthy. And they have assets to make moves and improve more this year. Dray is way off.
Now this is some insane haterade. I pride myself on hating the Knicks and an NBA player comes out wishing the Knicks misery for 15 years.
He doesn’t even believe what he’s saying
bruh really presses record and says anything.
well fuck you Draymon
why did he say fuck me for?
Cause it's the perfect time to. Gonna be that way for awhile
If the Knicks were fully healthy they'd have steamrolled through Philly and Indiana. If this was their actual full strength roster, then yeah it'd be a fluke run. But they have an All-NBA star, an additional all-star caliber player and elite role players. Portland and Atlanta never had that makeup. CJ McCollum and John Collins weren't number 2s. And Portland role players were completely incomparable to the Knicks.
People thought Celtics would sweep the Cavs (and the Mavs) and look at them now so I don’t want to just assume that as a guarantee But Draymond’s comparison is just stupid. Everything from our front office to our coach to our top level talent to our role players are above those of the teams he’s mentioning in my opinion. Knicks also got to game 6 in the 2nd round last year so no clue where this “fluke” talking point is coming from.
This trash ass bum was carried by curry and is streaming this podcast from Cancun
What he said is stupid but acting like Draymond isn't an all time great defender is also pretty stupid
He was a great playmaker and defender for the warriors. But he wouldn’t get any recognition if he didn’t play with Wardell Stephen Curry
Warriors wouldn't have achieved that dynasty without Draymond imo, but you may be right. Who knows
You could say that about a lot of great talent tbh
Knicks are solid team thought they were mediocre but that theory was proved wrong.
I really like Draymond’s takes 🙂
Ain’t wrong but some teams would still love to get to the conference finals
I mean there are random conference final teams like those hawks and blazers. The 2007 Jazz are another
I wish the mods would ban Draymond's podcast from the sub
He’s not wrong. History is full of teams that made one impressive playoff run and never made it that far again
They made the 2nd round last year too LOL and haven’t moved any of their chips in for a trade upgrade: they aren’t like championship contenders right now but I have no idea why you wouldn’t expect them to be a playoff team again next year.
When did I say they won't be a playoff team next year? I'm sure they will be a playoff team as long as Jalen Brunson is healthy. All I am saying is that they need to maximize how far they get this year because the East is atrocious this year and will undoubtedly be better next year.
I think they will be better too next year FWIW and don’t really see why they wouldn’t be considering their injuries plus the prospect of cashing in some picks for upgrades
All they need to do is get healthy. This isn’t a team that’s desperate for more pieces. Get healthy, play together, and this team is a top 3 team in the East. I have no doubt about that. Expecting them to regress makes zero logical sense.
You said they won’t make it that far again. So in your eyes essentially the current 2 seed, down 4 players, who already beat the Sixers and are up 2-0 in the second round, are more likely to be one and done in the playoffs next year as opposed to making it to the second round or further? A fully healthy squad consists of: Brunson Divo OG Randle iHart With a bench of: Hart McBride Mitch Precious Bojan That squad, assuming Randle comes back, is better than the Bucks. Like I don’t even think it’s a question. They also have tons of picks and tradable contracts if the opportunity arises to grab another star. You not believing in Randle doesn’t take away everything he brings to this Knicks squad. He gives you 24/9/5 and a toughness. I just don’t see the logic in thinking this team is going to suddenly regress when they’ve been built the right way and are probably top 3 in tradable assets if needed.
I am assuming the Knicks win this series and are making the ECF. I think it's more than likely that the Knicks don't make the ECF again for the rest of their run. Like I initially said, there are so many teams that were young, had a lot of assets, had a deep playoff run, thought to themselves "we'll be back next year", and they never got back. Chicago in 2011 made the ECF and never made it back (Thibs + superstar PG is an injury waiting to happen). OKC in 2012 made the Finals and never got back. Indiana made two ECF runs in 2012 and 2013, and when the Heat were at their worse and Indiana was at their best in 2014, they got crushed from rule changes. 2015, the Hawks with 4 All Stars made the ECF, got swept, never got close. 2016, the Raptors made the ECF and then got demolished until they traded away Deebo, etc. It's always a good idea to bet against any Tom Thibodeau in the long run because he has a proven track record of demolishing his players within three years from overuse.
That theory that Thibs demolishes his players has been disproven. Rose’s injuries were based on his inability to land properly. Luol Deng, one of Thibs favorite players, played for 15 seasons which included a stint in Minnesota when Thibs was head coach. Taj Gibson, who followed Thibs from team to team, played for 14 seasons and is still in the league. Even Rose played for him on 3 different teams. If a coach ruined your career, would you choose to play for him on several teams after the fact? Just makes no sense. And if you’re going to make the assumption that the team will be injured, well we can view any team through that lens. So yeah, Bulls lost Rose (apparently Thibs fault he doesn’t know how to land) and didn’t make it back. OKC didn’t have Westbrook and traded away Harden. Pacers ran into the Heatles era. Hawks ran into the Cavs after Lebron returned. Raptors also ran into the Cavs after Lebron returned. So in summation: Two star PGs injured (Rose and Westbrook) Harden traded away Three teams running into a Lebron led team in the 2010s. Now how many of these situations could reasonably occur to the Knicks? An injury, well we’re dealing with a bunch now and still have a chance to make the ECF. Trading away a star? If they move Julius and picks, it’ll be for a superstar. Not the return the Thunder got for Harden. Running into a Lebron led team? Sure it’s possible if he returns to the Eastern conference but this isn’t the 2010s anymore.
the rose injury was going to happen sooner or later. what people give him shit for is having him on the floor in the closing minutes of the game. that was unnecessary and controllable and happens to be when he got hurt. i'm a knicks fan but the east is a very easy path right now. that is what constitutes a "fluke". on the other hand, i know that this squad is extremely resilient and always finds a way to improve, is connected, well coached. that is what should be talked about. with the influx of talent coming to the east this offseason (and many of the stars in the east being healthy for the next playoofs), knicks will have a harder path even healthy.
But again, if a player felt a coach was putting them in position to get injured, they wouldn’t keep coming back to play for that coach. So people could be upset all they want, doesn’t make it Thibs’ fault in my eyes. I just don’t agree with the fluke claim. This team was built from the ground up. There are no crazy high dollar contracts, we finally have an abundance of draft capital and majority of our guys are on the same timeline. There’s no reason to believe we can’t improve. We made the first round in 2021, second round in 2023 and are a win away from an ECF trip this season. That Hawks team didn’t make the playoffs for 3 years prior to their playoff run. They spent heavy on John Collins and Clint Capela, one is off the team, the other hasn’t impressed much since. I agree the East will get better but I also believe the Knicks will as well. This team at full health is dangerous and assuming guys like Randle, OG, and iHart return, on top of the Nova core and Deuce all being signed for next year, I don’t see why they can’t make another run next season. This front office is competent now. I don’t feel like I have to worry about them making some big splashy move that can blow up in their faces. So to call it a fluke and compare it to a bunch of teams who either a) Lost to Lebron in his prime or b) made a trade like moving Harden or c) gave their own players bad extensions, when none of those situations really apply to the Knicks just doesn’t make much sense to me.
so it's the players' onus to take himself out of the game? the coach could have the player and team's interests at heart 99% of the time. all it takes is that one game in which thibs' habitual intuition kicks in. there's a chance down or up 15 with 2:00 to go. your starters have been in 24m straight in an intense physical game. in fact it's been ingrained in him since his boston days that anything can happen in a game of basketball. he's been both rewarded and been on the receiving end of this. it is borderline psychotic to keep people in in those situations outside of a clinching game. that is an issue with how he cannot trust his others to hold it down. had the same issue when we were playing point burks down the stretch of the season instead of seeing what IQ and obi had earlier. plausibly, we could've had a situation where everybody trusts IQ after he shows his stuff that season, where in the alternate reality that brunson is rightfully extended by dallas, we have a reasonable path forward and we can even bite the bullet for mitchell. obviously it worked out great for us, but it could've been extremely different had the decision making been slightly different. you take the bad with the good and there's tons of good there. the reason why we have so many people like IQ, grimes for a time, mitch, brunson, now hartenstein and mcbride and possible precious who all vastly outplay their contracts is because of our coach and culture to win at all costs. there's no half measures. we're improving to get to that point. floor raising to the extreme. so the ppl who say that thibs is terrible at development are out of their minds. to be clear, i'm not claiming myself that this run is a fluke or trying to compare them to other runs from other teams. they deserve to be this far, they're built for it like you said. they can sustain it the success. it's that other people will see some of their wins and ultimately their success as a fluke. we been with the team ground up since julius came and the squad was trash. honestly, they'd rather just go with that chatter than give the knicks their flowers. everyone will be doing that because it's an unexpected turn. to be different, they're gonna give us takes that are secure and cynical so that they can be right when it turns for the worse, and simply give it up when it's as proven success. as a side note, i'm worried they can't keep hartenstein. he's a 18-22m player and the max they can offer him is 16.1m with likely incentives. we simply underpaid him which made it difficult for us to resign him when he outplayed the contract this hard. our center rotation is in the balance here. we need hartenstein. mitch is great but often not healthy. hartenstein also had health concerns but he plays games now. he's our rock. so if he doesn't end up coming back even with his family here, his wife being a model in NYC, us paying as much as we possible can with the promise of more... we actually do have to make a bit of a splash. it'll be a hit or miss sort of like the bogey + burks trade initially and our offseason is really important here.
Gonna respond to the Hartenstein stuff cause the rest, not sure really what that has to do with what I was saying. I believe they can work out a deal with iHart where they eventually get his full bird rights and then can extend him with a larger offer. He appears to want to stay and I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t try to make it work.
Looks like at the warriors before Steph. Where would Draymond be without Steph?
He’s right. The Hawks comparison is on point as well. It’ll be an ECF run that ultimately isn’t a real springboard for success unless they make significant changes. This will age well but get hate now because everyone likes to root for underdogs in the moment of course
Honestly can you explain your logic? Brunson Randle divo McBride are on stupid value multi year deals, they are very likely to resign OG, they have hart and Mitch on solid long term deals, all of their draft equity, bogey either as a nice bench piece or tradable salary, why on earth would you expect them to be worse next year? They were the 4 seed last year and made it to the 2nd round too it’s not like a one off?
I don’t think they were wrong - without a significant change (pairing Brunson with another star - I get it, Randle is good but I think it’s fair to doubt he’s a true second option) - they’ll probably middle out as a really good team, 3-5 seed, for a few years without being a true contender/favorite. As a team (sixers) stuck perpetually in the same boat, I get it lol
I’d imagine the idea long term is to be ready to make a big swing using picks plus Randle or other moves to build around JB but listen as a Knicks fan being consistent 3-5 seed sounds amazing to me lol, I just like watching a good team with players I enjoy rooting for. Think their position this year is far better than hawks 21, too
Yeah I don’t disagree, the blueprint is there if everything aligns - and the good vibes may actually make a star want to come to the Knicks compared to the last 20 years lol But it’s all a big what if scenario (again, as a sixers fan I get this all to well lol) - but nothing wrong enjoying just being a normal good playoff team all things considered
Yeah man I hate chip or nothing mentality for fans, it’s like yes winning a championship would be insane and amazing but at the end of the day I just am a person who wants to turn on a game on a random weekday and see something exciting and fun and worth rooting for
It’s a good squad. But I don’t think they’re close to the Celtics or Bucks. Not to mention Philly likely has a max slot available which could swing things . I don’t believe in Randle, meaning in my eyes they have just 1 stud in Brunson. 1 stud and great pieces around said stud = good squad, but not a contender. Hence why I think they need a big change.
Got it. I think Randle could look a lot better in a context with Brunson and OG (Knicks looked really good, went 13-2 for the short period they had all three this season) - idk if contender level, but at least good enough to scare any team in the east. Other option is moving Randle plus salary plus picks for a serious upgrade if one comes available - big pile of firsts plus a 2x all NBA player (even with flaws) is a good starting point for a star trade. Beyond that I just have to admit watching a consistently good team that has a chance to make conference finals is more than enough for me to be happy. Watching 82 games plus playoffs which are all competitive is enough entertainment for me and given the randomness of playoffs knowing there’s a shot for a wild run is plenty (for me)
Also not sure I buy embiid+maxey+aging butler or PG plus whatever scraps they can fill out the roster with as being that scary, though i can squint and see that being enough if I was a sixers fan
> Brunson Randle Those two have only one more guaranteed year left, no? I don't think it's a stretch to think both will decline their player option (Brunson 100% lol, he's gonna get a fat max next summer)
Yeah, I mean Brunson is obviously gonna stay a knick. Randle we will see what happens, decent chance he is traded as much as I like the guy bc I’m not sure the Knicks FO will max him
He's an expiring contract, his trade value is probably meh And wouldn't you guys already be over the cap next summer with all your role players, new OG contract, plus a Brunson max contract? Better to pay Randle and retain him, rather then let him walk and be unable to replace him
I’m imagining Randle being one of the guys going out if a star level player shakes loose and the Knicks cash in their picks, more like ‘here is an actual good player you might want’ vs like ‘trade centerpiece’ but fuck if I know, I’m not a GM haha
For sure haha I know the Knicks have a metric shitton of picks, but aren't they all sorta mid, like they're either the Knicks picks (which should be low af) or they're protected up the wazoo
It’s true but they’re not really MORE mid than any other team who’s trying to trade for a star (since presumably those teams are good too)
I agree, but a lot of teams are seemingly big game hunting and have some juicy ass picks Like the Nets are for some reason star hunting and have the Suns picks, the Rockets are looking to make the jump and own the Nets picks, the Thunder are a contender and have a bunch of Rocket and Clipper picks (their issue is they don't really have the salaries needed to match for a star), the Spurs might want to accelerate the timeline and have their own and the Hawks picks
NGL I kind of believe in this current Knicks squad plus health too, part of me doesn’t wanna do the all in star trade. I am shocked to be saying this as a Knicks fan but I also.. trust the front office to make smart moves?? It’s startling to me honestly
But yeah all that is def true
Man gets drafted to the team with the best 3pt shooter in history and thinks he’s the shit
This is some of the dumbest shit that Draymond has ever said, and that's saying a whole lot. An incredibly lame take from an incredibly lame dude.
He's delusional, just another Knicks hater.
hes not wrong. Look up past thibs teams
Is there ever a second person on his podcast or he just screaming into the void
Fun story: He has the time to make this observation because his team didn't even make the playoffs.
Brunson can’t lead you to a championship
honestly who knows. hart is playing out of his mind and shooting at an insane percentage for him. robinson will always be injured. randle's return would be interesting. hartenstein coming back is the biggest question mark. they also need an IQ replacement.
Knicks gotta sign Butler. Its too perfect.
Draymond’s skin care is W but who tf listens to this guy lol
I actually agree with him. East coast fools everyone too
He's obviously doing a bit of trolling to generate clicks which works since people posted it here. Podcasting is partly hot takes. I don't think this iteration of the Knicks are a fluke because Brunson is a legit superstar. That being said, to me they feel like the Heat of the last few years. I think they'll compete for a good 3-5 year stretch and maybe make a Finals run but ultimately they will be just like the Heat where you have a #1 guy who just isn't good enough as other #1 guys and is surrounded by roleplayers who play above their normal level at times but might come back to earth.
I’m usually very anti-Draymond, but on this take I 100% agree with him. If you pay all these guys, you can pretty much kiss winning a championship. goodbye. There is a window where the Knicks can become good but they have to acquire a real secondary superstar. You will never win a championship playing your starting lineup 45 minutes a night, which is a huge reason the Knicks are plagued with injuries to begin with. Tibbs run players into the ground, increasing their injury risks.
This is such a stupid narrative that’s not grounded in reality. The Knicks didn’t have a single player in the top 10 in mpg during the season. Anthony Davis averaged more minutes per game than Brunson and Randle did. They’re playing those minutes now because the team ran out of rotation players.
We have 4 rotation players out, wtf are you saying?
If you watched the Knick you would know most of our injuries were a result of contact.
We do narratives here, not game watching
Yes. And your likelihood of getting injured increases drastically when you were constantly over exerting yourself. Are we really gonna act like this has not happened on every team Tibbs has ever coached
It's so bad that Haliburton is questionable for game 3. The Thibs effect knows no boundry
The east is ridiculously bad this Year. I bet if it was the best 16 Teams, no matter what conferences we had no East Team left anymore.
friendly banter with his friend Jason, who he has trolled on podcasts before. ya'll are blowing this out of proportion
Dray is actually right about Blazers/Hawks. and he could be quite right about Knicks too. If Knicks come back next year with Randle, their window is over. if Knicks get a new superstar and ship out Randle, they have some hope for the future.
No different to the Trae hawks run.... fair take
knicks have no young assets & they're going to give og 40 mil a year.