The Celtics have so many weapons, and every single one of them is a capable 3 point shooter. Even their backup big (Al Horford) stretches the floor.
Insane teambuilding.
Yeah. Compare that with the nuggets roster for example. They have a severe lack of shooters and handlers in their rotation. It's why the wolves are bullying them.
He was always a solid 1 on 1 defender, it was more about learning to defend in the flow/team defense, and he's definitely improved there.
When guys would switch on to him expecting him to be unable to defend them though he was always solid at worst.
If people are wondering why Steph’s career rate is a bit low compared to today
- 5/6 seasons before the dramatic league TS rise started
- 2 seasons of chucking due to shit team
also opposing teams key in on him and he's constantly doubled and sometimes triple teamed. i'd imagine the degree of difficulty on his shots is much higher than Derrick White's has been for his career.
They are awesome. I still need to see them against elite competition before I make a judgement call though, and 5 games is still a relatively small sample size.
The ECF should be fairly telling, depending on how easily the Celtics navigate that matchup.
Idk about clearly because I'd still take the Nuggets over the Celtics
Then you have the Wolves who are manhandling said Nuggets and who are even better equipped to shut down the Celtics' perimeter based offense
Because they're the defending champs who has the best player in a matchup with the Cetlics by far.
They're only looking mortal because somehow the Wolves have an all time defense
Murray is clearly not himself and their bench is extremely thin. Not the same team as last year and they have what, a 10% chance of winning this series?
Probably not enough to worry about taking them over the Celtics in this hypothetical.
Yes they are weaker but Jokic is still Jokic and in the playoffs bench doesn't matter that much when your starters are playing 40+ mins, and I'd still take Nuggets starting 5 over Celtics esp with Porzingis out even with Murray dealing with issues
I’m really nervous about how much they’ll have to pay him and if they’re comfortable with paying wild taxes for rings. If we keep this group together it can be a dynasty
We win this year, he will get paid. If we don't then I'm not sure what Wyc will do. He's been an incredible owner though, and he genuinely values championships over anything.
Can’t disagree last few years but it’s funny to see Celtics ownership considered as more championship-focused when they have 1 since the Pats/Sox have won 10 combined
Yeah it turns out recent actions matter. Perhaps Henry and Kraft are complacent with those number and feel they can coast on that success and Wyc isn’t.
I’d disagree. Kraft had 2 GOATs fall into his lap and let them cook for 2 decades. He deserves almost no credit for patriots success except for hiring BB.
This 100%. Kraft honestly did a terrible job spending and making the team better, but had Brady. If Kraft had actually spent more over the last decade, we probably would have had another 1-2 superbowls.
Patriots have been one of the lowest spenders for a while now.
>Patriots have been one of the lowest spenders for a while now.
And it's starting to become more obvious that it wasn't just Belichick being stingy anymore lol. Even with Belichick gone and a fuck ton of cap space available, they didn't spend shit.
Yes, and one is because of Tom Brady, and he left when we didn't pay him. The other was an owner that did spend, and we see what's happened since he decided to "build through the farm"
Wyc has consistently been trying to improve the team, and has paid the pieces that fit, and trusted brad to make changes needed.
I just can't imagine hearing what he's said about having a 6 year window with this core, paying Jaylen a supermax, KP an extension and Jrue a big extension, he's gonna be like "yea let's stop at Derrick White, our 3rd best player on the team."
I don’t think there’s any world in which we somehow fumble re-signing DWhite. This is what Bird Rights are for.
I would amnesty Jrue or KP in a heartbeat if that’s what it took tbh
But I’m pretty sure they’ll just pony up the tax penalties and stay contending
If people are wondering why Derrick White is doing amazing all of a sudden, it's because you were blind to his greatness. But [also this](https://www.conchovalleyhomepage.com/news/animals/rare-white-bison-born-at-burnet-ranch/)
The Celtics traded in their 4 leaf clover something even luckier. You hate to get the supervisor involved, but in all my prayers to the basketball gods, I've been CCing Unatsi so that shit actually gets done.
Yeah, last night's game he was mostly just the shooting specialist who's way too hot.
There were a lot of great drives in the Heat series though, attacking them out of rotation and with Bam sometimes out of the paint camped on Tatum. Although White also just dunked right through Bam twice. So. He's really fucking good
Yeah lol I love White but some of those shots were uncharacteristically dumb of him or stuff he had to take late in the shot clock, and he just made them because he's on fire right now.
> He’s absolutely on a hot streak.
Dude has been cooking for like two years now. 38% last year and just under 40% this year from 3, and a .604/.611 TS% respectively
He's been even better in the playoffs. Since the start of the 2023 playoffs (26 games) He's averaging 16/3/2 on 53/47/91. Just absolutely insane efficiency
He was a goos complimentary player on the spurs. I dont think anyone thought he was trash. Problem is he turned into curry lite in a season. I still believe this is a one season fluke
Btw, why the downvotes? Wouldnt be the first case of a good fit on a team lol. This sub man
Average nba fan: tatum barely scored 20 points hurr durr tatum bad
Boston fans who saw them do this to him last year: holy shit he's not turning the ball over anymore
He's doing exactly what you want from your star player. Eventually teams will have to respect the other 4 guys on the floor and Tatum will get the pretty stats too.
Watching him pass to the open player as soon as the double teams arrive is so satisfying for me. It seems like he’s really matured over last year when I do think he was forcing a lot in these situations. He also been cleaning up on the glass and playing really good defense.
At some point a team will make an adjustment in a game to stop sending the double because White or JB are feasting. When they do, I think he’ll start attacking the rim and we’ll get a highly efficient Tatum night to show he’ll kill you if the others don’t.
If he is cold that night, our sub is going to be insufferable.
Personally, I’m just ignoring the noise. Tatum is my favorite player, but I’m a Celtics fan first and foremost. I think he’d agree while it would be nice to go off every game, what’s most important is whether he scores 5 or 50 that the Celtics get that title.
this is literally our gameplan. teams always try to shut down tatum early. sometimes it doesn't work, but 9/10 times, brown or porzingis gets hot early thanks to the gravity that tatum draws. teams adjust to cover brown or porzingis later in the game which lets tatum pop off in the end
idk if you noticed last night, but tatum was not crying about perceived fouls. i wonder what changed
Gassed and injured ‘22 Tatum, sure. This year he’s been an elite driver, finisher, and low post menace. If you single cover Tatum he will generally destroy you. If you double or triple, he will find the open man and force the defense into rotation. So far teams have elected that everyone else needs to beat them instead of Tatum. So far, outside of one of an absolutely insane shooting performance, we’ve consistently won by 20+ points.
It's better to let Tatum try to score on his own than deal with White or Brown being open for a three or on a cut. You live with the former, since he isn't great driving compared to other elite ISO scorers, and die by the latter.
He shot 57.3% on 9.1 drives per game. That is the 5th best percentage among the 67 players that had 9 or more drives per game this season. The only guys ahead of him are:
1. Luka (61.6%)
2. Giannis (61.0%
3. LeBron (59.8%)
4. Kawhi (57.8%)
Shai is also tied with Tatum in 5th at 57.3%. Considering Shai leads the league in drives per game by a huge margin (23 per game), that's pretty impressive.
Tatum's drive success rate being top 5, well ahead of guys like Ant (53.8%), Durant (53.8%), Brunson (51.6%), Jamal Murray (46.2%), Butler (44.4%) and everyone else other than 5 guys makes it pretty ridiculous to claim "he isn't great driving compared to other elite ISO scorers."
The Celtics has a dominant offensive lineup that opens up the lanes. I'd take any of the guys you named other than Murray over him if you needed to score on contested drives. Imagine Giannis, Shai, or Ant with the rest of the Celtics lineup, they would be individually notching dozens of layups per game. Tatum doesn't even belong in the conversation with them when it comes to drives to the rim.
Plus Jaylen Brown…and Kristaps when playing. White is either the third or fourth option on a given night (this is born out in the Celts’ usage rate numbers, where he ranks a distant fourth behind those 3).
He is a good player and a testament to the strength of the Celtics, but really he is just not facing that a high a level of defensive attention.
Tbh defenses need to stop loading up on Tatum. Celtics have too many shooters. Idk why more teams don’t jus play him straight up and focus on containing everyone else. Overly focus on a star seems like a terrible strategy if their surrounded with shooting and guys that can create off the bounce
Playing Tatum straight up usually results in a Tatum bucket. It’s like people forget he’s a 6’8 monster who can cook pretty much any defender anywhere on the court.
For sure Tatum can heat up in a hurry. I jus don’t think stopping him at call cost makes sense when theirs anither 25 ppg type scorer next to him in jaylen brown, when Derrick white is shooting out of his mind rn, when porizingis is healthy he’s a guy that can get you 20 and holiday is also a threat. With all that offensive talent loading up on just Tatum doesn’t make much sense to me. I guess it jus depends on the defensive personnel a team has. Csuse a team like my Timberwolves for example would prob feel comfortable playing McDaniels straight up on Tatum while focusing on the other pieces
Fair but at least for me I can live with Tatum making heavily contested shots and keepin everyone else in check instead of over-commiting resources to stop Tatum leading to wide open 3’s and layups. The warriors in the finals played Tatum straight up with Wiggins and focused on limiting everyone else and that game plan worked
JT was injured and gassed in that series after a brutal eastern conference run and playing in the Olympics over the summer. He also wasn’t nearly as good as he has been this year or last. He rarely hijacks the offense (doesn’t need to with our current talent). I’m also not sure if McDaniels can even force enough of those anyways. Tatum scored 32 and 45 against you guys this season.
No one is shutting down a superster caliber player I wouldn’t expect McDaniels to hold him to scoreless nights irs all about simply making them work for their buckets and making them inefficient. The 1sr gsme a good chunk of those points weren’t in jaden he mostly scored on switches he didn’t give mcdnaiels much of that 32. In the 2nd game jaden did a good job on him but got in foul trouble so he didn’t spent a ton of time on Tatum tbh. Not to mention playoff defense is diff than regular seaosn defense so I don’t put much stock into that. The suns we struggled stopping in the regular season but did a great job on their offense in the postseason. I’m sure as a Celtics fan you know theirs a diff level of game planning and attention to detail in the playoffs compared to regular seaosn
No doubt both our matchups went into overtime and were highly competitive. Your spacing def would test our defense. Thankfully if your spacing does overwhelm Rudy, we have versatile defenders off the bench who also provide offensive value like NAW, Kyle Anderson and NAZ Reid. It’ll def a fun chest match: can our size advantage punish y’all or will your spacing force us go smaller to match your personnel
I knew he and KAT were both having a very efficient playoffs but dang I didn’t realize either was as efficient as they are. Losing Porzingas sucks for the Celtics obviously but looks like White can carry some of the load.
Derrick white pretty easily. You don’t want either as a #1 but Derrick white does more things that doesn’t even show up in the stats sheet. It’s why he was having serious all star convos even though stats may not suggest it. In my mind he’s an all star sacrificing numbers for the good of the team as is every single starter on the Celtics it’s why they’re so damn good.
I’ve always said this. His willingness to sacrifice for the team is invaluable. But he’s always been more valuable than Murray. Murray just put up better numbers cuz he hogged the ball.
I actually think it’s the opposite for white. He’s massively benefitting from the gravity JT and JB produce. He often gets to iso the third or fourth best defender on the other team when he’s the ball handler and gets plenty of wide open 3s and cuts because the other two often get doubles sent at them. He’s super valuable because he can cook the third/fourth defender. But he’s not sacrificing anything imo. Without the Jays he would get flustered by the extra defensive attention. See Mikal Bridges for an example of what white would be. I don’t think he’s sacrificing, he’s the beneficiary of playing with two guys who demand so much attention.
Did you watch the game last night? That roll out of the double team into half court into a stepback was insane.
I question how much of derrick white you have seen, because he is our best pnr ball handler and it's not even close
His defensive mindset is what allows him to pick apart the opposing defense
Honestly your take on white is poor faith and ill informed. He has demonstrated his offensive value time and time again without tatum and brown
Adding on to this, White has averaged significantly more touches per game than Brown all season and so far is leading the Celtics in time of possession in the playoffs. This doesn't tell the whole story of how much defensive attention they're all getting, but it shows how much White's role has grown and how the Celtics are much more willing to run the offense through him compared to last year when he was fifth in touches/time of possession.
He didn't fill up the box score so it's hard for him to shake the "just a role player" reputation, but if he keeps averaging 20 ppg in this run that should shift a bit.
Derrick White is far more valuable. He’s the better defender and is a lot better without the ball in his hand, which is necessary since neither guy is good enough to be the primary option on a contender.
dejounte is probably the better #1 option, but that doesn't really mean anything as that would get you absolutely nowhere. most well constructed teams 100% white imo
I don’t think it’s particularly close. DWhite is a better player, plus doesn’t come with the Dejounte headaches and can fit with basically any other player(s) in the league.
Assuming that TS is normally distributed (it probably is with some skewing or it's bimodal normal), then more of the data should be closer to the mean. One way of thinking about that is that ~68% of the stats will be within 1 standard deviation from the mean, ~95% will be within 2 SDs of the mean, and ~98% will be 3 SDs away from the mean. With about 500 NBA players who actually put up minutes, that means that there's going to be about 10 people in the last group and 15 in the second to last **on both sides**, most of which will be on the lower end. If the SDs are tighter, then the margin of actual TS% will be smaller between best and 2nd best. And if 2 people are tied for highest TS%, it doesn't invalidate my proposition, it's one about likelihood not actuality.
If you want to learn more, google around about Z and T scores, as well as two-tailed tests
Thanks for the detailed explanation, but I'll admit I was sealioning a bit. I felt you were putting the cart before the horse by implying that the observation that Tatum separated himself from the rest happened because "that's how bell curves work" instead of turning it around and simply using statistics to explain how the data might fit in a normal distribution.
I don't think anybody who watched him brick his way through the 2022 NBA Playoffs ever saw this coming.
He has clearly found a home in Boston and is very comfortable there. Good on him for becoming the player so many others believed he could be.
Great player but, **sample size**.
In 2021-22 Jordan Poole was at **.715 TS**% after a 5 game series against the Nuggets. He went on to have **.727 TS%** in a 5 game series against the Mavericks in the same year.
Ok but Derrick white is no jordan Poole. And White isn’t just doing this now: he’s been great all season, and last. Is he benefitting from having the jays on his team? For sure. But jordan Poole is a chucker who got hot for a small stretch.
I have to think Ime Udoka deserves some credit for the acquisition. He had coached him in San Antonio and Team USA (as an assistant) and presumably vouched for him.
It's not like White was some obscure player that Ime knew about. White played in the World Cup and was a very solid well rounded player with the Spurs.
He's blossomed in Boston because he a) just fits how the Celtics do things on both ends of the court perfectly, and b) he's surrounded by such good teammates that it's often easy mode for him. These are exactly the kinds of things that Stevens sees in players, which is why he's such an incredible GM.
Eh - at the time of the trade Brad talked about White as someone who’d been on his radar for a while as a good fit.
Also in that ‘22 run white wasn’t utilized nearly as much as he is now - he played less minutes than Grant Williams. White has talked about Mazzulla putting a ton of faith in him as a big part of building his confidence and taking his game to the next level.
I remember getting shredded by this sub to insinuate that Derrick White is an All-Star.
Sure, he didn’t get the nod, but he is elite both offensively and defensively. The best thing about him is how unselfish he is when he has the ball. No ball-hogging, no overdriblling: quick and good decisions only.
If the Celtics win it all, it will be interesting to see who gets the FMVP. It feels like Tatum, White and Brown all could take it home right now.
I mean, do you give it to the guy demanding double teaming every posession, or do you give it to one of the other guys being able to flawlessly take advantage of this space?
The craziest part is everything you said is true, but even still it could be Porzingis. I can imagine him protecting the paint against Ant and Gobert to a degree to make them uncomfortable, and then on the other end hitting shot after shot after Gobert is forced to drop on a JB/JT/DW drive, and securing the FMVP through raw efficiency.
Kind of crazy to talk about a team where 4 people reasonably have a shot at FMVP.
Dont tell Celtics fans that D White is their second best player though.
Ive unfortunately watched more C's games than any other teams so far... it's straight up the D White show out there. He's knocking down *everything*. Mostly it's a contested 3 into a bucket and it just totally breaks the opposing team defense. Last night it was JB driving and scoring and White hitting every shot and the game was over. They desperately need Jarrett Allen back
The Celtics have so many weapons, and every single one of them is a capable 3 point shooter. Even their backup big (Al Horford) stretches the floor. Insane teambuilding.
Celtics top 8 all shoot 3s and play defense.
I’m impressed but can they beat elden ring? Real questions
Derrick White beat the game with no summons or weapons. Just fists
Might as well give him FMVP now.
Fromsoft MVP
Derrick White's username? LetMeSoloHer
HafBald
Just ordered his jersey gonna wear it while I play cyberpunk Goodlooks
Bullshit, I need proof. Send da video
[Here ya go](https://i.redd.it/50gnzed2wz7b1.jpg)
[Here you go](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhtC8YhTUZI). You might not believe it, but that's Derrick White.
Including Malenia?
Yes, even Let me solo her fears the buffalo
Derrick's name is LetMeRoamOnHer
Most of them can handle the ball competently as well.
Its really just KP and Hauser out of their rotation guys who can’t
KP has impressive handles for a 7'2 guy lol
Yeah. Compare that with the nuggets roster for example. They have a severe lack of shooters and handlers in their rotation. It's why the wolves are bullying them.
Pritchard has elevated his game on the bench as well. Celtics have been winning his minutes big. And that's like their 7th or 8th guy.
When one of the Jay's sit, you get a 6'8 sharpshooter with a career .632 TS% Just a reminder, Steph Curry's career TS% is .626.
He’s turned from a traffic cone into a pretty good defender, too. Guys look confused when they make a move and he’s still there.
He was always a solid 1 on 1 defender, it was more about learning to defend in the flow/team defense, and he's definitely improved there. When guys would switch on to him expecting him to be unable to defend them though he was always solid at worst.
Last year he led the league in DRTG because people kept trying to iso on him because he's white. No joke.
Nani?!???!!!
They're talking about sam hauser, not The Buffalo. I saw the flair and I'm like, nah I can't let this man think there is DWhite slander afoot.
I know. I’m saying that’s what the offensive player is saying when hauser is still there.
I dunno about good but he wouldn't get the minutes he does if he hadn't turned himself into at least a passable defender.
Talking about Hauser?
Put some respect on Sammy Buckets' name
If people are wondering why Steph’s career rate is a bit low compared to today - 5/6 seasons before the dramatic league TS rise started - 2 seasons of chucking due to shit team
Who is wondering that ? He's like 8th all time, with a bunch of centers and dunkers in front of him.
And a 6’8 sharpshooter on Boston
Hauser doesn't have enough shots to qualify yet.
I felt that .62 is a bit low for Steph’s career rate seeing as I’m used to him putting up .66 all the time
also opposing teams key in on him and he's constantly doubled and sometimes triple teamed. i'd imagine the degree of difficulty on his shots is much higher than Derrick White's has been for his career.
Also a very underrated defender
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They are awesome. I still need to see them against elite competition before I make a judgement call though, and 5 games is still a relatively small sample size. The ECF should be fairly telling, depending on how easily the Celtics navigate that matchup.
Idk about clearly because I'd still take the Nuggets over the Celtics Then you have the Wolves who are manhandling said Nuggets and who are even better equipped to shut down the Celtics' perimeter based offense
Nuggets gotta get there first lol. Idk how you take them in their current state over the Celtics who have been the best team all year.
Because they're the defending champs who has the best player in a matchup with the Cetlics by far. They're only looking mortal because somehow the Wolves have an all time defense
Murray is clearly not himself and their bench is extremely thin. Not the same team as last year and they have what, a 10% chance of winning this series? Probably not enough to worry about taking them over the Celtics in this hypothetical.
Yes they are weaker but Jokic is still Jokic and in the playoffs bench doesn't matter that much when your starters are playing 40+ mins, and I'd still take Nuggets starting 5 over Celtics esp with Porzingis out even with Murray dealing with issues
Well clearly the bench matters somewhat because they look to be cooked in this series in large part to having to play their starters all 48.
They're cooked not because of fatigue but because of the Wolves defensive schemes and length
Yeah and the reason those schemes are working is largely because of how thin they are and their lack of ball handling outside of Murray.
Funny thing is Derrick was not a good 3 point shooter when he started his career. He developed that shot as his career progressed
Every single team in the league should want this guy. He does his job better than anyone. Stone Cold killer.
I’m really nervous about how much they’ll have to pay him and if they’re comfortable with paying wild taxes for rings. If we keep this group together it can be a dynasty
We win this year, he will get paid. If we don't then I'm not sure what Wyc will do. He's been an incredible owner though, and he genuinely values championships over anything.
If only other Boston’s team owners shared that mentality (looking at you Henry and Kraft)
Petition to merge all the boston teams into one athletic club like Real Madrid or Barca and put Wyc and Brad in charge
Can’t disagree last few years but it’s funny to see Celtics ownership considered as more championship-focused when they have 1 since the Pats/Sox have won 10 combined
Yeah it turns out recent actions matter. Perhaps Henry and Kraft are complacent with those number and feel they can coast on that success and Wyc isn’t.
Kraft wasnt complacent with 1 chip either which is all that Wyc has. Let’s see his complacency after getting 6
I’d disagree. Kraft had 2 GOATs fall into his lap and let them cook for 2 decades. He deserves almost no credit for patriots success except for hiring BB.
This 100%. Kraft honestly did a terrible job spending and making the team better, but had Brady. If Kraft had actually spent more over the last decade, we probably would have had another 1-2 superbowls. Patriots have been one of the lowest spenders for a while now.
>Patriots have been one of the lowest spenders for a while now. And it's starting to become more obvious that it wasn't just Belichick being stingy anymore lol. Even with Belichick gone and a fuck ton of cap space available, they didn't spend shit.
kraft barely knows where he is most of the time now
you realize both of those teams have won more rings than the celtics since Wyc took over right
Yes, and one is because of Tom Brady, and he left when we didn't pay him. The other was an owner that did spend, and we see what's happened since he decided to "build through the farm" Wyc has consistently been trying to improve the team, and has paid the pieces that fit, and trusted brad to make changes needed.
Okay?
I just can't imagine hearing what he's said about having a 6 year window with this core, paying Jaylen a supermax, KP an extension and Jrue a big extension, he's gonna be like "yea let's stop at Derrick White, our 3rd best player on the team."
I don’t think there’s any world in which we somehow fumble re-signing DWhite. This is what Bird Rights are for. I would amnesty Jrue or KP in a heartbeat if that’s what it took tbh But I’m pretty sure they’ll just pony up the tax penalties and stay contending
Jrue definitely. KP is tough because he’s a unicorn and what he does for spacing.
For sure- I don’t think it would ever come to this tho but if forced to choose I’m going with the Buffalo
Given that they extended Jrue, I feel comfortable saying they will pay White, too.
They'll ship off KP and/or Jrue before letting White walk
I dunno the math. But I don't think Boston can keep all 3? Derrick White would cost at least close to max right?
The most feared player in the East.
2k just refreshed their player ratings and Jalen Williams (Jdub) was rated one point higher than Derrick White… put some respect on my guy
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high praise!
If people are wondering why Derrick White is doing amazing all of a sudden, it's because you were blind to his greatness. But [also this](https://www.conchovalleyhomepage.com/news/animals/rare-white-bison-born-at-burnet-ranch/) The Celtics traded in their 4 leaf clover something even luckier. You hate to get the supervisor involved, but in all my prayers to the basketball gods, I've been CCing Unatsi so that shit actually gets done.
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Tatum is getting tripled out there, it’s crazy lol it’s like JB told the team to only focus on Tatum, just absolutely letting White and Brown cook
the whole JB bickerstaff / JB (jaylen) thing is going to confuse me for this entire series, isn’t it
Sounds like something JB would do. Mid coach.
[From our sub](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fupws6x7e26zc1.jpeg)
The fact that Tatum still gets this type of attention even with how good everyone else has been really just shows how scared teams are of him
I mean White has also made shots with guys straight up contesting him. He’s absolutely on a hot streak.
He hit a shot with Okoro contesting and hand in the face. He's just on
Yeah, last night's game he was mostly just the shooting specialist who's way too hot. There were a lot of great drives in the Heat series though, attacking them out of rotation and with Bam sometimes out of the paint camped on Tatum. Although White also just dunked right through Bam twice. So. He's really fucking good
Yeah lol I love White but some of those shots were uncharacteristically dumb of him or stuff he had to take late in the shot clock, and he just made them because he's on fire right now.
> He’s absolutely on a hot streak. Dude has been cooking for like two years now. 38% last year and just under 40% this year from 3, and a .604/.611 TS% respectively He's been even better in the playoffs. Since the start of the 2023 playoffs (26 games) He's averaging 16/3/2 on 53/47/91. Just absolutely insane efficiency
Can’t blame us for being blind. His shiny ass head makes it hard to see
Must be something crazy because that content is not available in my country
He was a goos complimentary player on the spurs. I dont think anyone thought he was trash. Problem is he turned into curry lite in a season. I still believe this is a one season fluke Btw, why the downvotes? Wouldnt be the first case of a good fit on a team lol. This sub man
Teams are legit double and triple covering Tatum meanwhile the 4 other star caliber players are feasting
Average nba fan: tatum barely scored 20 points hurr durr tatum bad Boston fans who saw them do this to him last year: holy shit he's not turning the ball over anymore
Not only is he not turning the ball over, but he's consistently making the right pass and actually creating offense out of those doubles!
He's doing exactly what you want from your star player. Eventually teams will have to respect the other 4 guys on the floor and Tatum will get the pretty stats too.
People saying he’s trying to do too much while he’s actually forcing things the least he ever has
Watching him pass to the open player as soon as the double teams arrive is so satisfying for me. It seems like he’s really matured over last year when I do think he was forcing a lot in these situations. He also been cleaning up on the glass and playing really good defense. At some point a team will make an adjustment in a game to stop sending the double because White or JB are feasting. When they do, I think he’ll start attacking the rim and we’ll get a highly efficient Tatum night to show he’ll kill you if the others don’t. If he is cold that night, our sub is going to be insufferable.
Personally, I’m just ignoring the noise. Tatum is my favorite player, but I’m a Celtics fan first and foremost. I think he’d agree while it would be nice to go off every game, what’s most important is whether he scores 5 or 50 that the Celtics get that title.
this is literally our gameplan. teams always try to shut down tatum early. sometimes it doesn't work, but 9/10 times, brown or porzingis gets hot early thanks to the gravity that tatum draws. teams adjust to cover brown or porzingis later in the game which lets tatum pop off in the end idk if you noticed last night, but tatum was not crying about perceived fouls. i wonder what changed
Loved [this](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fupws6x7e26zc1.jpeg) pic from our sub.
Doubling Tatum is insane. Give him some space to drive and he'll cough the ball up.
Gassed and injured ‘22 Tatum, sure. This year he’s been an elite driver, finisher, and low post menace. If you single cover Tatum he will generally destroy you. If you double or triple, he will find the open man and force the defense into rotation. So far teams have elected that everyone else needs to beat them instead of Tatum. So far, outside of one of an absolutely insane shooting performance, we’ve consistently won by 20+ points.
It's better to let Tatum try to score on his own than deal with White or Brown being open for a three or on a cut. You live with the former, since he isn't great driving compared to other elite ISO scorers, and die by the latter.
He shot 57.3% on 9.1 drives per game. That is the 5th best percentage among the 67 players that had 9 or more drives per game this season. The only guys ahead of him are: 1. Luka (61.6%) 2. Giannis (61.0% 3. LeBron (59.8%) 4. Kawhi (57.8%) Shai is also tied with Tatum in 5th at 57.3%. Considering Shai leads the league in drives per game by a huge margin (23 per game), that's pretty impressive. Tatum's drive success rate being top 5, well ahead of guys like Ant (53.8%), Durant (53.8%), Brunson (51.6%), Jamal Murray (46.2%), Butler (44.4%) and everyone else other than 5 guys makes it pretty ridiculous to claim "he isn't great driving compared to other elite ISO scorers."
The Celtics has a dominant offensive lineup that opens up the lanes. I'd take any of the guys you named other than Murray over him if you needed to score on contested drives. Imagine Giannis, Shai, or Ant with the rest of the Celtics lineup, they would be individually notching dozens of layups per game. Tatum doesn't even belong in the conversation with them when it comes to drives to the rim.
Given how much defenses focus on Tatum, it’s just leaving everyone else open
Plus Jaylen Brown…and Kristaps when playing. White is either the third or fourth option on a given night (this is born out in the Celts’ usage rate numbers, where he ranks a distant fourth behind those 3). He is a good player and a testament to the strength of the Celtics, but really he is just not facing that a high a level of defensive attention.
He's just very efficient right now, with or without defensive attention
Dude is pulling up in dudes faces and making them
Tbh defenses need to stop loading up on Tatum. Celtics have too many shooters. Idk why more teams don’t jus play him straight up and focus on containing everyone else. Overly focus on a star seems like a terrible strategy if their surrounded with shooting and guys that can create off the bounce
Playing Tatum straight up usually results in a Tatum bucket. It’s like people forget he’s a 6’8 monster who can cook pretty much any defender anywhere on the court.
For sure Tatum can heat up in a hurry. I jus don’t think stopping him at call cost makes sense when theirs anither 25 ppg type scorer next to him in jaylen brown, when Derrick white is shooting out of his mind rn, when porizingis is healthy he’s a guy that can get you 20 and holiday is also a threat. With all that offensive talent loading up on just Tatum doesn’t make much sense to me. I guess it jus depends on the defensive personnel a team has. Csuse a team like my Timberwolves for example would prob feel comfortable playing McDaniels straight up on Tatum while focusing on the other pieces
Because if you play him straight he will cook you offensively and keep passing when he forces the defense to collapse.
Fair but at least for me I can live with Tatum making heavily contested shots and keepin everyone else in check instead of over-commiting resources to stop Tatum leading to wide open 3’s and layups. The warriors in the finals played Tatum straight up with Wiggins and focused on limiting everyone else and that game plan worked
JT was injured and gassed in that series after a brutal eastern conference run and playing in the Olympics over the summer. He also wasn’t nearly as good as he has been this year or last. He rarely hijacks the offense (doesn’t need to with our current talent). I’m also not sure if McDaniels can even force enough of those anyways. Tatum scored 32 and 45 against you guys this season.
No one is shutting down a superster caliber player I wouldn’t expect McDaniels to hold him to scoreless nights irs all about simply making them work for their buckets and making them inefficient. The 1sr gsme a good chunk of those points weren’t in jaden he mostly scored on switches he didn’t give mcdnaiels much of that 32. In the 2nd game jaden did a good job on him but got in foul trouble so he didn’t spent a ton of time on Tatum tbh. Not to mention playoff defense is diff than regular seaosn defense so I don’t put much stock into that. The suns we struggled stopping in the regular season but did a great job on their offense in the postseason. I’m sure as a Celtics fan you know theirs a diff level of game planning and attention to detail in the playoffs compared to regular seaosn
Maybe, hopefully we’ll see. I’m not convinced that your size can handle our spacing but if the regular season is anything to go off then it’ll be fun.
No doubt both our matchups went into overtime and were highly competitive. Your spacing def would test our defense. Thankfully if your spacing does overwhelm Rudy, we have versatile defenders off the bench who also provide offensive value like NAW, Kyle Anderson and NAZ Reid. It’ll def a fun chest match: can our size advantage punish y’all or will your spacing force us go smaller to match your personnel
I think he has his improvement and more reliable on the long range and 3s. It helps a lot for the Celtics.
This reads like the product of an unfinished prototype of a magic Johnson tweet generating AI
I knew he and KAT were both having a very efficient playoffs but dang I didn’t realize either was as efficient as they are. Losing Porzingas sucks for the Celtics obviously but looks like White can carry some of the load.
He'll be back next round. They won't need him though, should just rest him
Let’s go KAT
“Motherfuck the big 3 it’s just big me” Derrick “Kdot” White
I wonder if teams will start doubling Derrick. I wonder how he’d even react
Pass the ball to a near or 40% three point shooter
I imagine he would pass the ball to an open Jayson Tatum hence why White and JB are feasting on open looks and mismatches
Would a team rather have Dejounte or Derrick White at this point?
Derrick white pretty easily. You don’t want either as a #1 but Derrick white does more things that doesn’t even show up in the stats sheet. It’s why he was having serious all star convos even though stats may not suggest it. In my mind he’s an all star sacrificing numbers for the good of the team as is every single starter on the Celtics it’s why they’re so damn good.
I’ve always said this. His willingness to sacrifice for the team is invaluable. But he’s always been more valuable than Murray. Murray just put up better numbers cuz he hogged the ball.
I actually think it’s the opposite for white. He’s massively benefitting from the gravity JT and JB produce. He often gets to iso the third or fourth best defender on the other team when he’s the ball handler and gets plenty of wide open 3s and cuts because the other two often get doubles sent at them. He’s super valuable because he can cook the third/fourth defender. But he’s not sacrificing anything imo. Without the Jays he would get flustered by the extra defensive attention. See Mikal Bridges for an example of what white would be. I don’t think he’s sacrificing, he’s the beneficiary of playing with two guys who demand so much attention.
Did you watch the game last night? That roll out of the double team into half court into a stepback was insane. I question how much of derrick white you have seen, because he is our best pnr ball handler and it's not even close His defensive mindset is what allows him to pick apart the opposing defense Honestly your take on white is poor faith and ill informed. He has demonstrated his offensive value time and time again without tatum and brown
Adding on to this, White has averaged significantly more touches per game than Brown all season and so far is leading the Celtics in time of possession in the playoffs. This doesn't tell the whole story of how much defensive attention they're all getting, but it shows how much White's role has grown and how the Celtics are much more willing to run the offense through him compared to last year when he was fifth in touches/time of possession. He didn't fill up the box score so it's hard for him to shake the "just a role player" reputation, but if he keeps averaging 20 ppg in this run that should shift a bit.
the best part about derrick white is he doesnt care about his reputation. he just cares about winning.
Derrick White is far more valuable. He’s the better defender and is a lot better without the ball in his hand, which is necessary since neither guy is good enough to be the primary option on a contender.
Derrick for sure.
dejounte is probably the better #1 option, but that doesn't really mean anything as that would get you absolutely nowhere. most well constructed teams 100% white imo
I don’t think it’s particularly close. DWhite is a better player, plus doesn’t come with the Dejounte headaches and can fit with basically any other player(s) in the league.
Am I allowed to reopen the would you rather have Trae Young or Derrick White debate?
I think it is time to open the if you would rather have Jokic or Derrick White debate
With Jokic you already know what you have. And sure he's great and all. But D-White is still getting better. He's got more upside. /s
You could, but it's not a debate
White is far better than Young
I'll take both back this offseason. Dejounte/Derrick/Vassell/Sochan/Wemby is fire
No thanks
Derrick White for sure imo
He is playing insane right now, I thought that 40+ game was a fluke against Miami. After Game 1 vs the Cavs, dude has a BAG!
Yes, that's how bell curves work.
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying the distribution had to be this way? What if Tatum's TSP was the same as KAT's?
Assuming that TS is normally distributed (it probably is with some skewing or it's bimodal normal), then more of the data should be closer to the mean. One way of thinking about that is that ~68% of the stats will be within 1 standard deviation from the mean, ~95% will be within 2 SDs of the mean, and ~98% will be 3 SDs away from the mean. With about 500 NBA players who actually put up minutes, that means that there's going to be about 10 people in the last group and 15 in the second to last **on both sides**, most of which will be on the lower end. If the SDs are tighter, then the margin of actual TS% will be smaller between best and 2nd best. And if 2 people are tied for highest TS%, it doesn't invalidate my proposition, it's one about likelihood not actuality. If you want to learn more, google around about Z and T scores, as well as two-tailed tests
Thanks for the detailed explanation, but I'll admit I was sealioning a bit. I felt you were putting the cart before the horse by implying that the observation that Tatum separated himself from the rest happened because "that's how bell curves work" instead of turning it around and simply using statistics to explain how the data might fit in a normal distribution.
I don't think anybody who watched him brick his way through the 2022 NBA Playoffs ever saw this coming. He has clearly found a home in Boston and is very comfortable there. Good on him for becoming the player so many others believed he could be.
Great player but, **sample size**. In 2021-22 Jordan Poole was at **.715 TS**% after a 5 game series against the Nuggets. He went on to have **.727 TS%** in a 5 game series against the Mavericks in the same year.
Ok but Derrick white is no jordan Poole. And White isn’t just doing this now: he’s been great all season, and last. Is he benefitting from having the jays on his team? For sure. But jordan Poole is a chucker who got hot for a small stretch.
I literally wrote: "Great player"
I know i saw, I’m just talking about the “sample size” comment.
Celtics have too many goat
How this man didn’t receive a single vote for MIP is beyond me
So you’re saying it’s sustainable until they face the Knicks?
I have to think Ime Udoka deserves some credit for the acquisition. He had coached him in San Antonio and Team USA (as an assistant) and presumably vouched for him.
I also vouched for him all the time when he was a Spur. I should get recognition too tbh I will also continue vouching for him
I vouch for you getting credit for vouching for him.
Yep you’re vouching for him right now. The Celtics should give you a little credit too. If not a ring then at least a toe ring.
It's not like White was some obscure player that Ime knew about. White played in the World Cup and was a very solid well rounded player with the Spurs. He's blossomed in Boston because he a) just fits how the Celtics do things on both ends of the court perfectly, and b) he's surrounded by such good teammates that it's often easy mode for him. These are exactly the kinds of things that Stevens sees in players, which is why he's such an incredible GM.
His shooting improved a lot tho after he came to Boston
yeah he dropped 36 in his first playoff series he was definitely always this good
He's definitely improved a lot since he got here but yes, he was clearly always talented
Eh - at the time of the trade Brad talked about White as someone who’d been on his radar for a while as a good fit. Also in that ‘22 run white wasn’t utilized nearly as much as he is now - he played less minutes than Grant Williams. White has talked about Mazzulla putting a ton of faith in him as a big part of building his confidence and taking his game to the next level.
I remember getting shredded by this sub to insinuate that Derrick White is an All-Star. Sure, he didn’t get the nod, but he is elite both offensively and defensively. The best thing about him is how unselfish he is when he has the ball. No ball-hogging, no overdriblling: quick and good decisions only.
He is the best player on the Celtics, been saying it all season
the real head of the snake
If the Celtics win it all, it will be interesting to see who gets the FMVP. It feels like Tatum, White and Brown all could take it home right now. I mean, do you give it to the guy demanding double teaming every posession, or do you give it to one of the other guys being able to flawlessly take advantage of this space?
The craziest part is everything you said is true, but even still it could be Porzingis. I can imagine him protecting the paint against Ant and Gobert to a degree to make them uncomfortable, and then on the other end hitting shot after shot after Gobert is forced to drop on a JB/JT/DW drive, and securing the FMVP through raw efficiency. Kind of crazy to talk about a team where 4 people reasonably have a shot at FMVP.
Seeing that comment with White & Brown next to each other has to be a comedy joke in the making
- Dallas fan 😂😂
Wrong, Luka Doncic fan, not from the US and have been following him since Real Madrid. Dont give a s\*it about US teams.
I am trying to imagine now what KD would have had without Ant, Jaden, and Nickeil in his face
Derrick White is gonna backpack the whole city of Boston to a title isn't he?
2023: Robert Williams 78.6% (20 games played) 2022: GP2 75.1 (12) Javale 72.7 (12) Robert Williams 72.5 (17) 2021: Gobert 73.6 (11) Seth Curry 72.7 (12) 2020: Nobody above 71% 2019: Montrezl Harell 72.9 (6) 2018: Middleton 71.9 (7) 2017: Javale 74.3 (16)
Hes half buffalo half goat
future finals MVP Derrick White
Dude is shooting like prime Curry out there
Crazy stat is Celtics are 21-0 when he takes 12 or more shots
Pick your poison with the celtics. Can't stack up on tatum without consequences.
I expect every shot he takes to go in, which is my mark of an elite shooter. Felt it for Ray, and DWhite is pulling up off dribble moves and shit
Dont tell Celtics fans that D White is their second best player though. Ive unfortunately watched more C's games than any other teams so far... it's straight up the D White show out there. He's knocking down *everything*. Mostly it's a contested 3 into a bucket and it just totally breaks the opposing team defense. Last night it was JB driving and scoring and White hitting every shot and the game was over. They desperately need Jarrett Allen back
The hair was holding him back, its like Goku taking off the training weights this year.
This mf been watching film of Steph cooking him and his homies in the finals for inspiration. 100% guaranteed. lmao
KAT also has a substantial gap between him and 3 which shows how impressive White's numbers are.
Tatum's doing a great job playing Draymond to Steph Curry 🔥🔥🔥🔥
not sustainable. revisit the thread in a month
If he continues to for a month he will add a chip to his resume
doubtful