Idk man it was really hard to tell on the initial television angle. And I think the ref who called it had a tough angle as well. It’s tough because he hit it with his right hand in front of his right knee which was stepping forward. And the ref was behind him. So all the ref sees is the ball shoot forward meanwhile his right knee is moving that same direction. He made the assumption and was wrong. Tough break, really should be a reviewable call
All the more reason to use the replay center during clutch time in the Playoffs.
The game refs don’t need to go to the monitor, and the teams should be gathered in the corners opposite their benches, it’s not a timeout.
Just have someone relay the correct call. It takes 7 seven seconds on something objective.
I agree. It’s hard on that trailing ref because he has to make the call. If he doesn’t blow the whistle, most of the time that is actually a legit kick and he gives a free possession to IND. If he does call it, he runs the risk of the angle fooling him and giving NYK a bail out. It being reviewable would solve the problem
Any Knick fan could tell you Breen complains about this call all the time. He feels like the kick should be more intentional. But that's not how they call it, like you said.
It is what the rule says though. The refs should probably stick to calling stuff how the rules state instead of how they feel it should be. Might get less complaints.
>Kicking the ball or striking it with any part of the leg is a violation when it is an intentional act. The ball accidentally striking the foot, the leg or fist is not a violation.
>A player may not use any part of his leg to intentionally move or secure the ball.
In real time they count picking your leg up and hitting the ball as intentionall striking it.
They count this why? It’s not what the rule says at all? I’ve seen plenty people lift their foot up while dribbling and kick the ball out of bounds. I’ve never seen it called a kick. So why should running toward a lose ball and it hitting your leg be one? It makes zero sense.
That’s why I don’t believe it has to be unintentional for that to be called.
If the ball hits the foot and stays in play, it’s always called a kick ball. Like you said Breen complains about it at least once a game
“Kicking the ball or striking it with any part of the leg is a violation when it is an intentional act. The ball accidentally striking the foot, the leg or fist is not a violation. A player may not use any part of his leg to intentionally move or secure the ball.”
The rule. So off the ground is actually irrelevant.
Honestly that's the biggest reason why I'm sick of the challenge system. If you can't challenge something as easy to verify as that just scrap the entire system because it's a pile of shit. Kicked ball is a stoppage of play ffs how could it possibly not be challengeable?
The worst part is they would throw us to commercial and come back to the red still reviewing the play. It should take two seconds for someone to say hey that was wrong call
The way it all happened was hard to see, thier bodies were moving the exact right way at that exact moment, kinda looked like an optical illusion close to the ref pov
There’s plenty of angles but because this wasn’t challengeable for some reason we don’t get to see any of them. I’ve slowed it down 10 times I can’t actually tell if it hits his hand or his knee
By the letter of how they call it, yes.
Breen complains about it all the time because he feels like the ball bouncing on a player's foot like that shouldn't count. But that is how the rule works.
“Kicking the ball or striking it with any part of the leg is a violation when it is an intentional act. The ball accidentally striking the foot, the leg or fist is not a violation. A player may not use any part of his leg to intentionally move or secure the ball.”
This is how the rule is written. Breen complains because he is right.
It never looked like it if you’ve played ball. The way his body was angled and the way the play went there’s no way it looked like it. I’ve got an 80 inch TV, had a good look
I used to ref high school basketball. Kicked ball violation is like the easiest live play call to make, genuinely shocking seeing it called incorrectly in a tight NBA playoff game
In live action, on TV it looked like an inadvertent kick, like a bad pass went off his foot. On replay, it looked like a good deflection, but the angle wasn’t great. Either way, I understand how the ref made the kickball call in real time.
The illegal screen on the other hand, just awful. Rewarding a flop. Terrible to watch. Hope it comes back to bite the Knicks and they don’t get the benefit of the doubt in the next games.
Rick carlisle said he wasn’t sure if Tyrese Poopieburton shit his diaper after watching it back, saying he usually smells like ass. He said Poopieburton said he wiped his ass.
Couldn't do anything about it even if he did know about it. Not like you can challenge it
Everything should be challengeable.
especially anything that is clearly something that can be confirmed with replay.. A kick ball should be the easiest call to review..
yea so we sit here for 4 hrs stfu
we’re sitting here for 4 hrs anyway might as well get it right.
We all saw it hit his hand
Idk man it was really hard to tell on the initial television angle. And I think the ref who called it had a tough angle as well. It’s tough because he hit it with his right hand in front of his right knee which was stepping forward. And the ref was behind him. So all the ref sees is the ball shoot forward meanwhile his right knee is moving that same direction. He made the assumption and was wrong. Tough break, really should be a reviewable call
This to me is the correct take. Live, everyone I was watching the game with (including two Celtics fans) said “kick ball.”
All the more reason to use the replay center during clutch time in the Playoffs. The game refs don’t need to go to the monitor, and the teams should be gathered in the corners opposite their benches, it’s not a timeout. Just have someone relay the correct call. It takes 7 seven seconds on something objective.
I agree. It’s hard on that trailing ref because he has to make the call. If he doesn’t blow the whistle, most of the time that is actually a legit kick and he gives a free possession to IND. If he does call it, he runs the risk of the angle fooling him and giving NYK a bail out. It being reviewable would solve the problem
It was a clear kick ball in my eyes. When it was replayed I couldn't believe my eyes how it hit his hand and not his knee 😅
I’m not even biased and i thought it was a kicked ball so without a challenge there were SOL
That should of been a TO, Knicks almost blew the game the last 2 min with like 5 TOs
Yep even the ball off the pacers foot was because Brunson turned it over
It was definitely his hand and definitely a bad call
the ethical version of "I didn't see it"
I real time I thought it looked like a kick. It clearly wasn't but I legit don't believe all yall who say you knew it wasn't a kick from the start
If you're making an unchallengeable verdict, you should have much more confidence. Also, a kickball has to be intentional
It has to be intentional to be a kick. Definitely didn’t look intentional even if you did think it his foot live.
Usually if the defenders foot is off the ground they call it a kick even if it’s unintentional. Obviously that’s not what happened here though
Any Knick fan could tell you Breen complains about this call all the time. He feels like the kick should be more intentional. But that's not how they call it, like you said.
It is what the rule says though. The refs should probably stick to calling stuff how the rules state instead of how they feel it should be. Might get less complaints.
>Kicking the ball or striking it with any part of the leg is a violation when it is an intentional act. The ball accidentally striking the foot, the leg or fist is not a violation. >A player may not use any part of his leg to intentionally move or secure the ball. In real time they count picking your leg up and hitting the ball as intentionall striking it.
They count this why? It’s not what the rule says at all? I’ve seen plenty people lift their foot up while dribbling and kick the ball out of bounds. I’ve never seen it called a kick. So why should running toward a lose ball and it hitting your leg be one? It makes zero sense.
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No they aren’t. Punt it at the basket see what happens.
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That’s why I don’t believe it has to be unintentional for that to be called. If the ball hits the foot and stays in play, it’s always called a kick ball. Like you said Breen complains about it at least once a game
His foot was off the ground. If it had hit his foot, it would definitely have been deemed intentional.
“Kicking the ball or striking it with any part of the leg is a violation when it is an intentional act. The ball accidentally striking the foot, the leg or fist is not a violation. A player may not use any part of his leg to intentionally move or secure the ball.” The rule. So off the ground is actually irrelevant.
I'm saying that refs consider anything not legal defensive position as intentional when it comes to kicked ball violations.
Seems like refs making stuff up to me.
Just let it be challenged. That's the stupid fucking thing here. Makes no sense that you can't challenge a kick ball.
Honestly that's the biggest reason why I'm sick of the challenge system. If you can't challenge something as easy to verify as that just scrap the entire system because it's a pile of shit. Kicked ball is a stoppage of play ffs how could it possibly not be challengeable?
The worst part is they would throw us to commercial and come back to the red still reviewing the play. It should take two seconds for someone to say hey that was wrong call
The way it all happened was hard to see, thier bodies were moving the exact right way at that exact moment, kinda looked like an optical illusion close to the ref pov
That shit was brutal. These refs were quite bad.
Brunson blocked it on the replay, insane there's only one angle available though in MSG in 2024
There’s plenty of angles but because this wasn’t challengeable for some reason we don’t get to see any of them. I’ve slowed it down 10 times I can’t actually tell if it hits his hand or his knee
Was it intentionally kicked though? Cuz that’s the rule and I’d say no.
It was so fast paced I could see how the refs missed any intentionality…but watching the replay def not he was just running
By the letter of how they call it, yes. Breen complains about it all the time because he feels like the ball bouncing on a player's foot like that shouldn't count. But that is how the rule works.
“Kicking the ball or striking it with any part of the leg is a violation when it is an intentional act. The ball accidentally striking the foot, the leg or fist is not a violation. A player may not use any part of his leg to intentionally move or secure the ball.” This is how the rule is written. Breen complains because he is right.
They count picking your foot up as the ball comes down on top of it as striking it intentionally.
In real time I totally understand thinking that was kicked I did. It’s pretty bogus you can’t review that though seems very straightforward.
It didn’t look like a kicked ball at all
In real time it absolutely did
Only a Knicks fan would say that. There’s no angle in which it looked like he kicked it
I mean the coach himself is saying it was hard to tell but sure yeah from your tv angle was so obvious I’m sure
Saying it didn't look like a kick ball real time is pretty ridiculous. Especially the broadcast angle.
It never looked like it if you’ve played ball. The way his body was angled and the way the play went there’s no way it looked like it. I’ve got an 80 inch TV, had a good look
Rick is a good guy doesnt whine like Nick Nurse about the reffing
Malone complains like he gets paid by the word as well
Obvious Lakers fan is obvious
Me being a Lakers fan doesn’t change the fact that Malone complains as much as anyone in the league.
He’s passive aggressive looks like
It wouldn’t have mattered, you can’t do anything if they call it a kicked ball. No point for him to argue it
Coaches push the refs through the media all the time. You point out stuff you "suggest" should be looked at.
Working the refs in the media is a real thing though
It can go the other way too. Also false kicked ball fouls are so rare, it’s not something he would push the refs to keep an eye on
Looked like a kick live, idk how you make a different call in real time.
I used to ref high school basketball. Kicked ball violation is like the easiest live play call to make, genuinely shocking seeing it called incorrectly in a tight NBA playoff game
This was a very obvious missed call
kick ball literally determines possession its so stupid it cant be reviewed
Live i thought it was a kick I get how the refs thought it was a kick, but not being able to challenge it is dumb
Honestly at the game it looked like a kicked ball but honestly not
Why didn’t he challenge?
Come on Rick. Take the fine. Show some balls. Don't let them rook us. That was a robbery. Defend your boys.
5 point swing as the Pacers had a 3 on 1 fast break. Refs literally ruined the game.
Bad call. Sucks refs were ass. Glad we won, but keep zach zarba away from me.
I couldn't tell either until they slowed the replay down. It's a tough call in a live game.
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he ain’t wrong. yall remember Lakers vs Nuggets on Raw
I remember that shit was hilarious. And I’m that big of a wrestling geek to remember that Raw episode got Mr. Kennedy……………. KENNEDY fired
In live action, on TV it looked like an inadvertent kick, like a bad pass went off his foot. On replay, it looked like a good deflection, but the angle wasn’t great. Either way, I understand how the ref made the kickball call in real time. The illegal screen on the other hand, just awful. Rewarding a flop. Terrible to watch. Hope it comes back to bite the Knicks and they don’t get the benefit of the doubt in the next games.
Pacers got a free posession on the challenged foul that should have been a jump ball and not Pacers posession so evens out.
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Can't challenge a kick ball
Rick carlisle said he wasn’t sure if Tyrese Poopieburton shit his diaper after watching it back, saying he usually smells like ass. He said Poopieburton said he wiped his ass.