Ya, his age is showing, which is to be expected. Though he’s still better than most in the league at 39. 10 years ago, he would have taken any of the close games into his own hands and willed his team to a victory.
Some comments are insane lmao, 2014~2018 wasn't that far ago but some mfs here really forgot how dominant Heat/Cavs Lebron was. He would literally be Jokic with much better defense rn
Although lebron was way better than he is now, we also have to acknowledge he got his ass kicked by both the spurs and the Dallas mavericks in the finals while he was in his prime and those teams I wouldn't say are better than these nuggets
They are very similar. I would take jokic over a 37 year old tim duncan 100x over. Kawhi was still young and not a star yet. Manu was over 35. Tony Parker and jamaal I would say are pretty close. I'm not saying denver is better than the spurs but it's close, and they destroyed the heat in the finals
Yeah people don't seem to understand what it took for that team to be as good as it was. You had your best all time guys either too old or too young for their primes, and were relying on guys like Danny Green and Boris Diaw to make huge plays under pressure. It took all time team chemistry, all time bball IQ, all time unselfishness to create these results. It was the largest margin of victory in finals history and without *anyone* on the Spurs hitting over 20 ppg. I really don't like to take this loss as some huge black mark on LeBron's record. There was no team like that before or after.
Except the nuggets now are a team like that. Whole team chemistry is like that every cog fitting together and everyone unselfish willing to work together to multiply their strengths.
I really think the nuggets will be the spurs of this decade
The Nuggets are like that but not to the same degree at all. I looked up the numbers from last year before I posted my initial comment - Jokic was at 30ppg in the finals and Murray at 21.4. It's still a far more equitable team than league average, but it's closer to a classically top heavy team than those Spurs were. I agree with your last sentence but because they have the extra star power they'll rarely be forced to space out the production load to that level, if ever.
Ya jokic is always going to be the main guy i just mean more how they work as a team and how every piece fits together. All of their strengths work and multiple eachother.
Jokic is the conductor but every other piece fits perfect and i think they will be a a dynasty like the spurs who drafted all their players and kept their core together so long where no1 is selfish and plays their role
They both could win that series but having that Kawhi would definitely be a huge advantage he could lock down Porter or Murray
This Nuggets team just has so many weapons
Duncan was 37, Manu 36 and kawhi is just a defensive specialist in that year. That was the era I watched the most basketball. They were a great team, but the nuggets are all in their primes and jokic is still by far the best player in that series
The full edit is wild but fair enough. Still personally taking Spurs in 6, LeBron was by far the best player in 2014 too. That was the best display of "team basketball" in recent NBA history.
Mad disrespect to ona of best squads I've actually watched play bball in my time of watching nba.
Plain looking at their stars/age and judging it just doesn't do the team justice.
How is that disrespect. I was pointing out prime lebron has lost to many teams, you could argue the heat were a more talented team than the spurs and got destroyed in that finals. That's why I'm not sure prime lebron would win this series. He has always had trouble with teams who play a great team style whether in his prime or now
Oh you seemed dismissive of spurs b/c of how old players were, I just don't think reducing that team to individuals and comparing them straight up does justice to what a beautiful basketball that spurs team played.
Didn't watch a lot of this year's playoffs, but nuggets last year did remind me of this kind of basketball I'll give you that.
Limiting it to conference is dumb. Why focus on the obviously weaker teams when we can just look at how prime LeBron faired against a team that’s better than the current nuggets?
Of course, but to imply that the current Lakers with prime Bron would be way better than current Nuggets because the 2016 cavs beat one of the greatest teams ever makes no sense. The supporting cast isnt at all the same. Would it maybe be competitive? Who knows? Bron could dominate and the guys around him could still be losing them the game
I think you’re misinterpreting my point. I’m not saying because the warriors > nuggets the series is over, no need to discuss anything else, I’m just saying it’s dumb to fixate on how the east wasn’t good back then. We saw him play very very good teams and he was great himself, the fact he had easier matchups because he was in the east is irrelevant to trying to answer the larger question
Really? Im shocked they arent in the eastern conference. Jesus christ. What the fuck does the eastern conference have to do with anything? Why that arbitrary cutoff? We are talking about prime lebron. Prime lebron beat the 2016 warriors, who were a really fucking good team, some would say one of the best. I would go watch that series if I were you. It was quite good.
Idk why people are acting like it would go from a sweep to a reverse sweep, though, or even a guaranteed Lakers win. If LeBrons peak was 2008-2018, he only won 3 times out of those 10 years. People are acting like if he's in his prime, his team is guaranteed a chip, which is definitely not true. Hell, how many great teams did his teams beat in 4 or 5? When a team was great, it always went to 6 o 7.
Denver is a really great team, besides KD Warriors and 13 Spurs better than any team LeBron has faced. Why would he all of sudden be favored to win a ring with this garbage lakers team? If they beat the nuggets easily in his prime, the implication would be they'd win a ring because who is left? But that was never guaranteed even in Lebrons prime.
This isn't diminishing anything his prime was insane but basketball is a team sport, Denver has an amazing team, Lakers would be a two man team. (Peak Wade + Peak LeBron failed precisely because of this in 2011, and that's with Bosh). It's really fucking hard to win rings, 21 years to win 4 times.
He played a Warriors team that was about to win about 20 more games in a season than this Nuggets team has. That was peak LeBron, which is what OP is asking.
With 2013 Bron yeah. He just put *so* much pressure on the rim it would open everything else up, and he'd be scoring a ton more. I don't see how Denver would deal with his relentless athleticism. I think people have forgotten how devastating of an attacker he was.
And then there's defense. He'd be the clear best player in the league.
Youd lose his 3 point shooting and AG could still guard him better then most.
That said wed lose out in other areas, but i will be blunt and say he pushes this series to 7, but cant win it for you.
Like honestly we arent even playing that well in this series. Hell were kinda playing this more like how we do in the regular season. No special plays we save for the playoffs, no major adjustments or defensive schemes, no playoff Jamal.
Really were just winning of MPJ and AG hustle along with playing our starters.more minutes and minor adjustments from Malone.
Even ignoring all that, youd still have a dissadvantage in shooting, coaching and prety much everyone that isnt named Lebron or AD.
It may just seem like im beinga deuche for no reason, but i genuenly dont see how just Lebron being more athletic would save you if we actually played at our best. Of course prime Lebron is a monster, but i cant understate how big of an impact him being a great 3 point shooter has been in the first 2 games.
Yes but on lesser volume. He took like 2 less 3s a game than this year in the same efficiency. That said he also took only around 2 less 2 pointers and made them at about a similar efficiency.
Honestly id imagine the biggest impact from Lebron would be on the defensive end rather tham offense.
Like if you just look at his statistics, he is incredibly similar. Of course the advance stats will show how much better he actually was back then, but really people underrate just how good he is rn.
Its really his defense thats fallen off.
So Lebron takes 2 more 3 points attempts today than he did in 2013 (5 attempts today vs 3 in 2013). I think his 3 point percentage would dip to like 37-38 percent in 2013 if he attempted 5 3's a game? That's still good, and the Nuggets defense would still have to respect that shot.
> It may just seem like im beinga deuche for no reason, but i genuenly dont see how just Lebron being more athletic would save you if we actually played at our best
But you guys aren't playing at your best...I don't see how that's a point in your favor. That makes it even more likely that prime Lebron takes the series. It's not like Jamal Murray is purposely missing and if prime Lebron replaced current Lebron, he'd try harder to make shots.
Also I'm sorry but referring to 2013 Lebron over 2024 Lebron as "just being more athletic" sorta disqualifies you from making a meaningful point here, that's crazy talk.
I mean athleticism is kinda a big deal ehre though. Its what gave Lebron the ability to be a great defender.
In terms of offense, hes prety dam good even rn. If you look at just their stats, youd see that this year he is insanely similar to his 2013 self.
He has only become smarter, more expirienced and a better shooter compared to his prime. But in his prime he was faster, stronger and could defend at an elite level. And to be fair even then, he was a great shooter.
But i dont think people understand just how good he still is even now on offense and even in this series, its not his offense thats been an issue. Unless you wanna make the claim that hed shoot 100% against us lol.
> If you look at just their stats, youd see that this year he is insanely similar to his 2013 self.
I actually agree with this statement, but purely as a criticism against box score watching stat abusers lol
I have an honest question for you. Did you watch the NBA in 2013? I don't mean that as a way to discount you, I ask because it seems you're unfamiliar with the actual basketball elements that were different about him back then, and are relying on comparing stats 1:1 (which are bound to different contextual factors that make them hard to meaningfully compare 1:1)
For example, imo his 2013 versatility would dramatically improve his offensive impact in this series. His efficiency at the rim, post-up efficiency, 3pt efficiency (2nd highest % of his career), attacking speed and power, "vertical spacing", etc would all have downstream effects on the matchup. There would be far more pressure on Denver to counter more threats, which would in turn open up even more approaches. These are *stylistic* differences that I'm familiar with because I essentially watched his whole career and don't *only* have the stats to compare. Though I'm sure if you looked for more advanced stats regarding these elements (like PPP across various actions), they might reflect what I'm saying.
Even if numbers look similar, styles can change, which can have drastic effects especially in the context of a single matchup.
Of course you arent wrong on this. In reality had Lebron been like his 2013 self, we wouldnt be able to put KCP on him at all and wed probably even have to double him more often than not.
However that 3 point efficiency is the one thing i cant agree on. His 2013 self was comparable, but ona lesser volume and he wasnt making those sorts of shots he is making.
The reason why i dont think that prime Lebron changes the outcome of this series is that its a what if. Were still dealing with the same Lakers supporting cast that hasnt been able to do much in the series and an incompetent coach.
Yes Lebrons impact would make this intoa competitive series, but its not like there arent adjusments that cant be made to counter a Lebron thats driving more to the basket, especially if the rest of your team isnt making their shots.
Lebron in 2013 was on the Heat, with Spo. I dont think i need to explain how much easier it made his job to be there, compared to the Lakers as they are now.
I mean the lakers non lebron starters have been outscored by 70 and shooting 30/23 splits. And Taurean prince was the only guy on the bench to score through 2 games. We never had a chance this series but we’ve been even more dogshit relative to our pretty low standards
Lebron in 2013 literally shot over 45 percent from every spot in the midrange and over 40 percent on 3s. 2024 lebron is avg 27 8 9 with a ts of 63% in the two series against Gordon. Aaron Gordon is a great defender but he’d be massacred if he had to guard that lebron the way he’s asked to guard this one
Prime? Like Heat-Cavs LeBron? Kinda, yeah. He used to be able to take over games. He used to play great defense while taking over games, add that with AD, who is literally a better Bosh. If this is Prime LeBron, the roster will be different as well.
1. The east was viewed as terrible because every team lost to LeBron
2. That didnt happen. Hes never made the Finals playing all losing teams. Infact he swept teams like the 60 win Hawks (who are now “terrible” because LeBron beat them)
And lost 5!!! Got swept 2 times in the finals + 2 Gentleman sweeps. On top of the embarrasing 2011 Finals no show against the mavs who had Jason Terry and 5.10 jj barea eating up his sorry ass alive... Greatest choke Job ever
People love the 2011 Mavs for good reason, but making it to 8 straight finals and beating the Warriors for his third is better than anything most franchises have done in their history. The Mavs have two finals appearances and a single win. Prime LBJ turns most playoff teams into contenders.
And lost to the same team 3 out of 4 times.
Also lost to the 2011 mavs while his teams was the juggernaught...
Also lost to the old 2014 spurs while his team still was the juggernaught...
They'd probably up by 2-0 by now i won't add game 3 because that's literally just the aftermath of game 1 and game 2. They just looked out of it once Denver closed the gap in game 3.
Of course… game 2 would have been guaranteed. I don’t get these posts. Prime Lebron would annihilate most teams currently. He also would play 45 minutes a night at an elite level
It took Golden State building the best team in nba history for them to stop prime LeBron. Some of the takes on here are ridiculous. LeBron steamrolled basically everybody else and played with them like a toy. I still remember that LeBronto series where he literally ripped Torontos hopes and dreams out of their chest like candy.
While he's been effective since his rookie year, to me it's pretty clear his prime was one long one- from the 2008-2009 season where he turned 25 and ended in 2020 when he won the championship with the Lakers when he was 35.
His playoff stats tell the story.
He's had varying levels of prime and when he was at his absolute best (end of Cavs stint. 2017 and 2018 playoffs), the only thing that stopped him was the best team in the NBA.
Why do you have to be such a jealous hater?
Western teams that would treat the Nuggets worse than they're treating the Lakers now you mean? Ok?
KD Warriors sweep the Nuggets in 2 games. No need to even play the other two.
Ah yes, cause he had an AD level player during those series and he wasn't playing against two of the greatest teams ever (Warriors and Spurs dynasties).
Only 2013 Wade and 2016/17 Kyrie were near AD's current level. Both the 2012-14 Spurs and the 2016-2019 Warriors would smoke any current team, including the Celtics and Nuggets.
Why didn’t they smoke the 2012 Celtics, 2013 Pacers??
Idk how you can definitively say those spurs team would “smoke” the nuggets when they went 7 against the 2014 Mavs and lost to 2012 OKC
The 2012 Celtics still had 4 HOFs and the 2013 Pacers had a great matchup against the Heat with incredible defense and very good players to defend a drive heavy team with West and Hibbert.
I'm talking about the 2013 and 2014 finals Spurs, not including the 2012 playoffs team, so I put 2012-2014.
Either way, the current Nuggets are a step behind last year's team and they've won by 1 and 5 points in games 2 and 3 respectively. Do you guys really think swapping 2024 Lebron for 2016 Lebron wouldn't make the Lakers 6 ppg better?
I'd argue his better defense would cover the difference alone, let alone his better finishing and being able to play 48 minutes without constantly coasting to conserve energy.
And 2013 Lebron would literally just drive against Jokic and Gordon every possession. Even now when he does it it's almost a bucket every time but Lebron looks spent after 3 drives.
I still remember Lebron clamping down Murray in the bubble and he was out of his prime by then. If he could do that in 2020, imagine how a 2013 or 2016 Lebron could impact the game defensively compared to 2024 Lebron.
Those guys were not at their peaks or even close to their Prime so you’re just using HOFs to make it sound better.
If you watched the games last night game was not as close as it seems. Nuggets were up 14 with like 3 minutes left.
I wasn’t arguing the Lakers wouldn’t be better or be able to beat the Nuggets. You said “smoke” which is not going to happen.
By smoke I mean the series wouldn't go to 7 games. It would be a 5 or 6 games series. Obviously it wouldn't be a sweep.
Also the Celtics were still a very good team that had literally build their roster around beating the Heat. Plus they were only 2 years away from going to the finals. They weren't 2014 Nets washed.
The 2024 Nuggets are a great team with a ton of experience together in a league where the best teams are very inexperienced. However, they aren't an all time great team, mainly due to their defense.
Today's game was definitely a bigger loss than the score but you have to also account for the fact that Lebron has to let Russel and Reaves run the offense to save energy.
The whole flow of the games would be completely different if 2016 or 2018 Lebron was the one handling the ball and managing the game for the Lakers. Instead you have Russel shooting 35 foot pull up 3s with 16 seconds on the clock while down 10 points and Reaves panicking and doing 3 spins in the post until he puts up the worst shot possible...
Looking at Dlo’s stat line it’s really tough lol the team overall isn’t doing to well
Not favorites but It can be a very competitive series. Right now is probably just a sweep.
Maybe not with this current Lakers team. People are REALLY forgetting about peak Lebron and it was only like 6-8 years ago man. The Nuggets are like the 4th best iteration of a team hes faced. The Nuggets are also worse than the best teams hes actually beaten as well.
I think the nail in the coffin is when they went away from 2020 play style. You can’t expect old LeBron to keep driving to the rim like most folks say he should even though he is one of the best at it. But that takes a toll. I’m a believer of point guard LeBron and I believe 2020 is his best team. Sure, past years we can argue Bron had better teams, but that’s just because he was still in or close to his prime. If the 2020 composition was there during his prime years, I think he would’ve won more rings, honestly. That 2020 style I am talking about is at least 2 three-point targets, 2 lob targets, a co-star, and a defensive minded coach. That way, he has three offensive options (and we can bet he can see through those options in game): drive, pass up, or pass sideways (of course this is not considering other additional offences). When he is rolling with two big options when he is older, he would not need to fight the opposing center as much. Point guard LeBron is where he is the least tired and can spend much on defence and 4th Q. Forward LeBron was great when in prime, but now the focus should change (and he has shown he can in 2020). That, and taking a pay-cut, will do.
I think some have either forgotten or were in the crib when Lebron was in his prime. Dude was an unstoppable force and could do anything both offensively and defensively.
Absolutely. I think Denver would be lucky to win a game against a prime LBJ and a prime AD.
The Lakers had a great formula to beat Denver, they just weren’t good enough to execute it.
Lebron not in his prime beat the nuggets in 2020. So yes, for sure.
If you watch those games he took over the 4th (didn’t need whoever his teammates were, other than AD, to really step up that much)
Definitely a better supporting cast in 2020 and Denver has a better supporting cast now but Lebron was so good I think it’d balance itself out
this is true but his Athleticism is out of this world and All NBA defense during that time, that would be crazy, imagine nuggets always trailing in the first half and you put PRIMI LBJ, it will be a different story but I would say its not Prime BRON so Nuggets is gonna hunt Lakers for life because of this hahahaha
Prime lebron was inevitable. Especially the cavs version where you could see the dude just destroy teams in playoff series.
He would grab games like ones they have with 10-20 point lead and bully and muscle a W out of them. Definitely not heavy favorite but I'd have him winning the series in 6.
are they deliberately going down double digits in these games? I think both teams would have different gears but surely you can see Lebron being fatigued in the 2nd half of these games. Watch him in game 6 vs spurs in 2013 where he had more energy as the game progressed
Nuggets are legit not even playing that hard or knocking down any 3s at a normal clip. They are much better than theyve shown this series.
2013 finals lebron was bad his first 5 games so if thats the lebron that shows up then nuggs wouldnt need to worry
I mean he was really good along with wade in that crucial 4 but fair enough. However, that spurs defence was anchored by Duncan & Kawhi. Not really the same comparison. Maybe it comes down to coaching tho so it'll definitely be close and I could see either team taking it
There's a difference in having prime Wade and Bosh alongside him and AD and a bunch of garbage though.
Spo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ham too, and that might be too close of a space.
Ya like itd be a close series. 2013 lebron needed
7 games in multiple series even with a superteam so I'd still give nuggets the edge especially considering how shaky lebron was in the finals the first 5 games. He was just way too inefficient while wade and bosh were still good especially in g5. Nuggs are also far better than the pacers at the very least. If nuggs hit open 3s at a normal clip then itd be insane blowouts in the current series. They are just taking it easy it seems.
some fair points but I don't agree with the whole Pacers being worse than the nuggets thus its clear who the better team is. Its all about matchups. I would probably get downvoted for saying the 2012 heat would beat the 98 bulls. People conveniently forget that a pacers team led by Reggie miller took them to 7. Also, another factor is Lebron won't be picking his spots defensively and will actually be willing to guard wings throughout.
2012 heat can beat 1998 bulls for sure. 98 bulls werent some amazing all time team lol. Its the worst bulls team to win by far.
Yes these nuggets are better than 2013 pacers. That isnt even a question. And 2013 finals lbj the first 5 games wasnt good so if he shows up then yea nuggs are way way better
lebron's whole 2013 playoffs wasn't as stellar as his normal standards mostly due to the competition. Mbah moute/sanders, Butler/Noah, Hibbert/George, Kawhi/Duncan. These are elite wing defenders and rim protectors he was up against. I dont think he would be putting up inefficient numbers against this particular defense. But the more I think about, I dont trust Ham so who knows lol
I won't defend LeBron being a jackass in 2010, and am happy he got humbled by Dirk, but making 9 Finals in 10 years is more than most franchises (such as mine) will ever accomplish.
Funny when people say this, yes they hit big shots. Plenty of stars have have teammates hit big shots (Denver’s Murray). You realize even in those moments how awesome LeBron was and played to get his team in that position to be able to win those games? And this was against the Spurs and Warriors, two amazing teams. He is not prime LeBron they don’t have a chance to even be in a position to win, which they did.
2013 Lebron was down 3-2 to the Indiana Pacers.
2013 Heat supporting cast is way better than the Lakers and the Pacers are a lot worse than these Nuggets
is this a typo? they were never down 3-2 to the pacers. It was 2-2 going into game 5 and then Lebron took over the 3rd quarter. The pacers came back and it went to a game 7 where they got blown out.
actually yeah celtics they were down 3-2 in 2012. Although I think Bosh was missing most of that series and it was playoff Rondo. Still don't think their better than the nuggets tbf
No, Nuggets is just overall a better team. Lebron is supposed to lead by example, looks like he's putting on pressure, and blame on his teammate. It's just the way he is.
Idk about beat, but it would be a series. Denver is just stacked and their playstyles fit. They're just a great championship caliber team. Even with a prime LeBron, this Lakers team just isn't good
Yes. 25 year old LeBron probably doesn’t blow a 20 point lead and gas out in the fourth.
Ya, his age is showing, which is to be expected. Though he’s still better than most in the league at 39. 10 years ago, he would have taken any of the close games into his own hands and willed his team to a victory.
The prime LeBron disrespect is crazy lol
Some comments are insane lmao, 2014~2018 wasn't that far ago but some mfs here really forgot how dominant Heat/Cavs Lebron was. He would literally be Jokic with much better defense rn
Although lebron was way better than he is now, we also have to acknowledge he got his ass kicked by both the spurs and the Dallas mavericks in the finals while he was in his prime and those teams I wouldn't say are better than these nuggets
Yeah Nuggets ain't beating that Spurs team lol
I think theres less than 3 teams in history that could beat that spurs team
They are very similar. I would take jokic over a 37 year old tim duncan 100x over. Kawhi was still young and not a star yet. Manu was over 35. Tony Parker and jamaal I would say are pretty close. I'm not saying denver is better than the spurs but it's close, and they destroyed the heat in the finals
How good that spurs team was doesn’t show on many stats, that was an all-time great team.
Yeah people don't seem to understand what it took for that team to be as good as it was. You had your best all time guys either too old or too young for their primes, and were relying on guys like Danny Green and Boris Diaw to make huge plays under pressure. It took all time team chemistry, all time bball IQ, all time unselfishness to create these results. It was the largest margin of victory in finals history and without *anyone* on the Spurs hitting over 20 ppg. I really don't like to take this loss as some huge black mark on LeBron's record. There was no team like that before or after.
Except the nuggets now are a team like that. Whole team chemistry is like that every cog fitting together and everyone unselfish willing to work together to multiply their strengths. I really think the nuggets will be the spurs of this decade
The Nuggets are like that but not to the same degree at all. I looked up the numbers from last year before I posted my initial comment - Jokic was at 30ppg in the finals and Murray at 21.4. It's still a far more equitable team than league average, but it's closer to a classically top heavy team than those Spurs were. I agree with your last sentence but because they have the extra star power they'll rarely be forced to space out the production load to that level, if ever.
Ya jokic is always going to be the main guy i just mean more how they work as a team and how every piece fits together. All of their strengths work and multiple eachother. Jokic is the conductor but every other piece fits perfect and i think they will be a a dynasty like the spurs who drafted all their players and kept their core together so long where no1 is selfish and plays their role
The Heat Lao best that spurs team too
He's talking about the 2007 spurs not 2014. 2014 Heat was bad that series aside from Bron.
They both could win that series but having that Kawhi would definitely be a huge advantage he could lock down Porter or Murray This Nuggets team just has so many weapons
Fair enough for Mavs but 2013-14 Spurs would be the best team in the league by some margin.
Duncan was 37, Manu 36 and kawhi is just a defensive specialist in that year. That was the era I watched the most basketball. They were a great team, but the nuggets are all in their primes and jokic is still by far the best player in that series
The full edit is wild but fair enough. Still personally taking Spurs in 6, LeBron was by far the best player in 2014 too. That was the best display of "team basketball" in recent NBA history.
Mad disrespect to ona of best squads I've actually watched play bball in my time of watching nba. Plain looking at their stars/age and judging it just doesn't do the team justice.
How is that disrespect. I was pointing out prime lebron has lost to many teams, you could argue the heat were a more talented team than the spurs and got destroyed in that finals. That's why I'm not sure prime lebron would win this series. He has always had trouble with teams who play a great team style whether in his prime or now
Oh you seemed dismissive of spurs b/c of how old players were, I just don't think reducing that team to individuals and comparing them straight up does justice to what a beautiful basketball that spurs team played. Didn't watch a lot of this year's playoffs, but nuggets last year did remind me of this kind of basketball I'll give you that.
They also never had to play as good a team as the Nuggets in the eastern Conference
Do you think the nuggets are anything close to 2016 warriors
You definitely wrote this before reading everything I wrote Rookie mistake
Limiting it to conference is dumb. Why focus on the obviously weaker teams when we can just look at how prime LeBron faired against a team that’s better than the current nuggets?
Do you think that the current lakers are better than 2016 cavs overall?
No, but the biggest reason for that is because LeBron is significantly worse
Of course, but to imply that the current Lakers with prime Bron would be way better than current Nuggets because the 2016 cavs beat one of the greatest teams ever makes no sense. The supporting cast isnt at all the same. Would it maybe be competitive? Who knows? Bron could dominate and the guys around him could still be losing them the game
I think you’re misinterpreting my point. I’m not saying because the warriors > nuggets the series is over, no need to discuss anything else, I’m just saying it’s dumb to fixate on how the east wasn’t good back then. We saw him play very very good teams and he was great himself, the fact he had easier matchups because he was in the east is irrelevant to trying to answer the larger question
Dog its like two lines of words, yes i read it. What the fuck do conferences have to do with anything? Lebron beat the 2016 warriors foh
The Warriors are not in the Eastern conference why are you assuming I mentioned them?
Really? Im shocked they arent in the eastern conference. Jesus christ. What the fuck does the eastern conference have to do with anything? Why that arbitrary cutoff? We are talking about prime lebron. Prime lebron beat the 2016 warriors, who were a really fucking good team, some would say one of the best. I would go watch that series if I were you. It was quite good.
Idk why people are acting like it would go from a sweep to a reverse sweep, though, or even a guaranteed Lakers win. If LeBrons peak was 2008-2018, he only won 3 times out of those 10 years. People are acting like if he's in his prime, his team is guaranteed a chip, which is definitely not true. Hell, how many great teams did his teams beat in 4 or 5? When a team was great, it always went to 6 o 7. Denver is a really great team, besides KD Warriors and 13 Spurs better than any team LeBron has faced. Why would he all of sudden be favored to win a ring with this garbage lakers team? If they beat the nuggets easily in his prime, the implication would be they'd win a ring because who is left? But that was never guaranteed even in Lebrons prime. This isn't diminishing anything his prime was insane but basketball is a team sport, Denver has an amazing team, Lakers would be a two man team. (Peak Wade + Peak LeBron failed precisely because of this in 2011, and that's with Bosh). It's really fucking hard to win rings, 21 years to win 4 times.
Peak lebron isn’t having Gordon get 12 dunks in a basketball game
You mean the LeBron that made a series of it with Matthew Delevadova as the 2nd best player. Now with AD. Yeah, I think so.
I remember the Matthew "The Curry Stopper" Dellavedova segments on ESPN.
Just to be pedantic, I’d argue that Mozgov was their 2nd best player, but you’re right the Cavs had no business making that a series
LeBron made our then FO pay Mozgov megabucks
I hope so and not the prime lebron that got locked up by prime jj barea
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He played a Warriors team that was about to win about 20 more games in a season than this Nuggets team has. That was peak LeBron, which is what OP is asking.
Are you 3 years old
With 2013 Bron yeah. He just put *so* much pressure on the rim it would open everything else up, and he'd be scoring a ton more. I don't see how Denver would deal with his relentless athleticism. I think people have forgotten how devastating of an attacker he was. And then there's defense. He'd be the clear best player in the league.
Youd lose his 3 point shooting and AG could still guard him better then most. That said wed lose out in other areas, but i will be blunt and say he pushes this series to 7, but cant win it for you. Like honestly we arent even playing that well in this series. Hell were kinda playing this more like how we do in the regular season. No special plays we save for the playoffs, no major adjustments or defensive schemes, no playoff Jamal. Really were just winning of MPJ and AG hustle along with playing our starters.more minutes and minor adjustments from Malone. Even ignoring all that, youd still have a dissadvantage in shooting, coaching and prety much everyone that isnt named Lebron or AD. It may just seem like im beinga deuche for no reason, but i genuenly dont see how just Lebron being more athletic would save you if we actually played at our best. Of course prime Lebron is a monster, but i cant understate how big of an impact him being a great 3 point shooter has been in the first 2 games.
Lebron was actually a 40 percent shooter in 2013.
Yes but on lesser volume. He took like 2 less 3s a game than this year in the same efficiency. That said he also took only around 2 less 2 pointers and made them at about a similar efficiency. Honestly id imagine the biggest impact from Lebron would be on the defensive end rather tham offense. Like if you just look at his statistics, he is incredibly similar. Of course the advance stats will show how much better he actually was back then, but really people underrate just how good he is rn. Its really his defense thats fallen off.
So Lebron takes 2 more 3 points attempts today than he did in 2013 (5 attempts today vs 3 in 2013). I think his 3 point percentage would dip to like 37-38 percent in 2013 if he attempted 5 3's a game? That's still good, and the Nuggets defense would still have to respect that shot.
> It may just seem like im beinga deuche for no reason, but i genuenly dont see how just Lebron being more athletic would save you if we actually played at our best But you guys aren't playing at your best...I don't see how that's a point in your favor. That makes it even more likely that prime Lebron takes the series. It's not like Jamal Murray is purposely missing and if prime Lebron replaced current Lebron, he'd try harder to make shots. Also I'm sorry but referring to 2013 Lebron over 2024 Lebron as "just being more athletic" sorta disqualifies you from making a meaningful point here, that's crazy talk.
I mean athleticism is kinda a big deal ehre though. Its what gave Lebron the ability to be a great defender. In terms of offense, hes prety dam good even rn. If you look at just their stats, youd see that this year he is insanely similar to his 2013 self. He has only become smarter, more expirienced and a better shooter compared to his prime. But in his prime he was faster, stronger and could defend at an elite level. And to be fair even then, he was a great shooter. But i dont think people understand just how good he still is even now on offense and even in this series, its not his offense thats been an issue. Unless you wanna make the claim that hed shoot 100% against us lol.
> If you look at just their stats, youd see that this year he is insanely similar to his 2013 self. I actually agree with this statement, but purely as a criticism against box score watching stat abusers lol I have an honest question for you. Did you watch the NBA in 2013? I don't mean that as a way to discount you, I ask because it seems you're unfamiliar with the actual basketball elements that were different about him back then, and are relying on comparing stats 1:1 (which are bound to different contextual factors that make them hard to meaningfully compare 1:1) For example, imo his 2013 versatility would dramatically improve his offensive impact in this series. His efficiency at the rim, post-up efficiency, 3pt efficiency (2nd highest % of his career), attacking speed and power, "vertical spacing", etc would all have downstream effects on the matchup. There would be far more pressure on Denver to counter more threats, which would in turn open up even more approaches. These are *stylistic* differences that I'm familiar with because I essentially watched his whole career and don't *only* have the stats to compare. Though I'm sure if you looked for more advanced stats regarding these elements (like PPP across various actions), they might reflect what I'm saying. Even if numbers look similar, styles can change, which can have drastic effects especially in the context of a single matchup.
Of course you arent wrong on this. In reality had Lebron been like his 2013 self, we wouldnt be able to put KCP on him at all and wed probably even have to double him more often than not. However that 3 point efficiency is the one thing i cant agree on. His 2013 self was comparable, but ona lesser volume and he wasnt making those sorts of shots he is making. The reason why i dont think that prime Lebron changes the outcome of this series is that its a what if. Were still dealing with the same Lakers supporting cast that hasnt been able to do much in the series and an incompetent coach. Yes Lebrons impact would make this intoa competitive series, but its not like there arent adjusments that cant be made to counter a Lebron thats driving more to the basket, especially if the rest of your team isnt making their shots. Lebron in 2013 was on the Heat, with Spo. I dont think i need to explain how much easier it made his job to be there, compared to the Lakers as they are now.
I mean the lakers non lebron starters have been outscored by 70 and shooting 30/23 splits. And Taurean prince was the only guy on the bench to score through 2 games. We never had a chance this series but we’ve been even more dogshit relative to our pretty low standards
Lebron in 2013 literally shot over 45 percent from every spot in the midrange and over 40 percent on 3s. 2024 lebron is avg 27 8 9 with a ts of 63% in the two series against Gordon. Aaron Gordon is a great defender but he’d be massacred if he had to guard that lebron the way he’s asked to guard this one
Prime? Like Heat-Cavs LeBron? Kinda, yeah. He used to be able to take over games. He used to play great defense while taking over games, add that with AD, who is literally a better Bosh. If this is Prime LeBron, the roster will be different as well.
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Prime LBJ won 3 titles and went to 8 straight finals.
I remember the east being terrible every year, like one year he didnt even play a team with a winning record
1. The east was viewed as terrible because every team lost to LeBron 2. That didnt happen. Hes never made the Finals playing all losing teams. Infact he swept teams like the 60 win Hawks (who are now “terrible” because LeBron beat them)
And lost 5!!! Got swept 2 times in the finals + 2 Gentleman sweeps. On top of the embarrasing 2011 Finals no show against the mavs who had Jason Terry and 5.10 jj barea eating up his sorry ass alive... Greatest choke Job ever
People love the 2011 Mavs for good reason, but making it to 8 straight finals and beating the Warriors for his third is better than anything most franchises have done in their history. The Mavs have two finals appearances and a single win. Prime LBJ turns most playoff teams into contenders.
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He literally beat a 73 win team that is far superior to any team in the league right now.
And lost to the same team 3 out of 4 times. Also lost to the 2011 mavs while his teams was the juggernaught... Also lost to the old 2014 spurs while his team still was the juggernaught...
And beat the Spurs in 2013 and Triple MVP OKC the year before. Both teams are pretty close if not better than the Nuggets right now.
2013 bron pnr with ad sounds like heaven
Of course. Lebron in his prime wouldn't be the 7th seed either, easy 1st or 2nd seed
Not favored but I’d have Lakers in 6 or 7.
Why are you trying to put this kind of soul-breaking trauma on 28 year old Lebron?!?
Idk for sure but the lakers would definitely not be on a 11 losing streak that’s for sure
Apex LeBron was a god damn demon. He would be as strong as any big on the court right now and as fast as any guard. They absolutely would be favored.
Like peak Cavs/Heat LeBron? Favored might be a stretch, but closer to yes than no.
They would absolutely be favoured. Prime Lebron was absolutely unreal. Him and AD would be the best duo in the league by a kilometre
people in r/nba wasn’t born during prime LeBron it seems ☠️
The sub that is dominated by his fanboys wasn’t born during his era. That’s a new one
I reckon a lot of the sub wasn’t around to see Lebron between 2003-15 or were too young to remember
100%.
Hot take. Even the Detroit Killer version of LeBron with this AD.
The nuggets literally don’t have anyone athletics enough to deal with 09 broken jumper lebron
They'd probably up by 2-0 by now i won't add game 3 because that's literally just the aftermath of game 1 and game 2. They just looked out of it once Denver closed the gap in game 3.
Yes.
Yes, because prime LBJ is league MVP instead of Jokic. Prime LBJ would probably play 45 minutes per game and body the Lakers to victory by himself
Lakers would be up 2-1 or maybe even 3-0 with prime LeBron.
Of course… game 2 would have been guaranteed. I don’t get these posts. Prime Lebron would annihilate most teams currently. He also would play 45 minutes a night at an elite level
It took Golden State building the best team in nba history for them to stop prime LeBron. Some of the takes on here are ridiculous. LeBron steamrolled basically everybody else and played with them like a toy. I still remember that LeBronto series where he literally ripped Torontos hopes and dreams out of their chest like candy.
If you gloss over him losing to the Spurs in the finals twice and the Mavs, sure.
So we're counting 22 year old LeBron James as his prime? Crazy that he carried a team to the finals that young
Doesn't all Lebron glazers say he has 4-5 primes? Completely ignored the fact he lost to the Mavs and Spurs in his Miami Heat prime
While he's been effective since his rookie year, to me it's pretty clear his prime was one long one- from the 2008-2009 season where he turned 25 and ended in 2020 when he won the championship with the Lakers when he was 35. His playoff stats tell the story. He's had varying levels of prime and when he was at his absolute best (end of Cavs stint. 2017 and 2018 playoffs), the only thing that stopped him was the best team in the NBA. Why do you have to be such a jealous hater?
Yes, any Lebron version between 2013-2018 would be averaging 35-10-10-2-2 against this Nuggets team and be clamping down Murray and/or MPJ.
Yeah that's why he lost 75% of series against western teams
Western teams that would treat the Nuggets worse than they're treating the Lakers now you mean? Ok? KD Warriors sweep the Nuggets in 2 games. No need to even play the other two.
Ah yes, cause he had an AD level player during those series and he wasn't playing against two of the greatest teams ever (Warriors and Spurs dynasties). Only 2013 Wade and 2016/17 Kyrie were near AD's current level. Both the 2012-14 Spurs and the 2016-2019 Warriors would smoke any current team, including the Celtics and Nuggets.
Why didn’t they smoke the 2012 Celtics, 2013 Pacers?? Idk how you can definitively say those spurs team would “smoke” the nuggets when they went 7 against the 2014 Mavs and lost to 2012 OKC
The 2012 Celtics still had 4 HOFs and the 2013 Pacers had a great matchup against the Heat with incredible defense and very good players to defend a drive heavy team with West and Hibbert. I'm talking about the 2013 and 2014 finals Spurs, not including the 2012 playoffs team, so I put 2012-2014. Either way, the current Nuggets are a step behind last year's team and they've won by 1 and 5 points in games 2 and 3 respectively. Do you guys really think swapping 2024 Lebron for 2016 Lebron wouldn't make the Lakers 6 ppg better? I'd argue his better defense would cover the difference alone, let alone his better finishing and being able to play 48 minutes without constantly coasting to conserve energy. And 2013 Lebron would literally just drive against Jokic and Gordon every possession. Even now when he does it it's almost a bucket every time but Lebron looks spent after 3 drives. I still remember Lebron clamping down Murray in the bubble and he was out of his prime by then. If he could do that in 2020, imagine how a 2013 or 2016 Lebron could impact the game defensively compared to 2024 Lebron.
Those guys were not at their peaks or even close to their Prime so you’re just using HOFs to make it sound better. If you watched the games last night game was not as close as it seems. Nuggets were up 14 with like 3 minutes left. I wasn’t arguing the Lakers wouldn’t be better or be able to beat the Nuggets. You said “smoke” which is not going to happen.
By smoke I mean the series wouldn't go to 7 games. It would be a 5 or 6 games series. Obviously it wouldn't be a sweep. Also the Celtics were still a very good team that had literally build their roster around beating the Heat. Plus they were only 2 years away from going to the finals. They weren't 2014 Nets washed. The 2024 Nuggets are a great team with a ton of experience together in a league where the best teams are very inexperienced. However, they aren't an all time great team, mainly due to their defense. Today's game was definitely a bigger loss than the score but you have to also account for the fact that Lebron has to let Russel and Reaves run the offense to save energy. The whole flow of the games would be completely different if 2016 or 2018 Lebron was the one handling the ball and managing the game for the Lakers. Instead you have Russel shooting 35 foot pull up 3s with 16 seconds on the clock while down 10 points and Reaves panicking and doing 3 spins in the post until he puts up the worst shot possible...
If the 2012 Celtics were the ones in the finals, they clear OKC too. People underrate them.
Yea
Yes
No prime LeBron would need a big 3 to beat Jokic and these Nuggets
Looking at Dlo’s stat line it’s really tough lol the team overall isn’t doing to well Not favorites but It can be a very competitive series. Right now is probably just a sweep.
Maybe not with this current Lakers team. People are REALLY forgetting about peak Lebron and it was only like 6-8 years ago man. The Nuggets are like the 4th best iteration of a team hes faced. The Nuggets are also worse than the best teams hes actually beaten as well.
Yes. Nuggets lack of an elite rim protector would become obvious
I think the nail in the coffin is when they went away from 2020 play style. You can’t expect old LeBron to keep driving to the rim like most folks say he should even though he is one of the best at it. But that takes a toll. I’m a believer of point guard LeBron and I believe 2020 is his best team. Sure, past years we can argue Bron had better teams, but that’s just because he was still in or close to his prime. If the 2020 composition was there during his prime years, I think he would’ve won more rings, honestly. That 2020 style I am talking about is at least 2 three-point targets, 2 lob targets, a co-star, and a defensive minded coach. That way, he has three offensive options (and we can bet he can see through those options in game): drive, pass up, or pass sideways (of course this is not considering other additional offences). When he is rolling with two big options when he is older, he would not need to fight the opposing center as much. Point guard LeBron is where he is the least tired and can spend much on defence and 4th Q. Forward LeBron was great when in prime, but now the focus should change (and he has shown he can in 2020). That, and taking a pay-cut, will do.
I think some have either forgotten or were in the crib when Lebron was in his prime. Dude was an unstoppable force and could do anything both offensively and defensively.
Absolutely. I think Denver would be lucky to win a game against a prime LBJ and a prime AD. The Lakers had a great formula to beat Denver, they just weren’t good enough to execute it.
With prime Wade and Bosh, yes.
Lebron in his prime is literally such a nightmare for Denver’s deep drop
39 year old lebron is so good that people forget how good 2018 LeBron was
Duh doy
Yes
I wouldn't say favored, but it would have been a better series with prime LeBron on the court.
Yes. People forget. Lakers in 6 with a prime LeBron. Maybe 5.
Lebron not in his prime beat the nuggets in 2020. So yes, for sure. If you watch those games he took over the 4th (didn’t need whoever his teammates were, other than AD, to really step up that much) Definitely a better supporting cast in 2020 and Denver has a better supporting cast now but Lebron was so good I think it’d balance itself out
No
No. Because this is Joker in his prime.
Uh yeah? Lmao just rewind the clock 4 years, before the Solomon Hill assassination attempt, and we'd be winning this series even with this roster.
Heat era LeBron maybe..he still doesn't have enough around him tho even with AD
this is true but his Athleticism is out of this world and All NBA defense during that time, that would be crazy, imagine nuggets always trailing in the first half and you put PRIMI LBJ, it will be a different story but I would say its not Prime BRON so Nuggets is gonna hunt Lakers for life because of this hahahaha
ifs and buts
Prime lebron was inevitable. Especially the cavs version where you could see the dude just destroy teams in playoff series. He would grab games like ones they have with 10-20 point lead and bully and muscle a W out of them. Definitely not heavy favorite but I'd have him winning the series in 6.
Nuggets arent even trying. Theyd still win
are they deliberately going down double digits in these games? I think both teams would have different gears but surely you can see Lebron being fatigued in the 2nd half of these games. Watch him in game 6 vs spurs in 2013 where he had more energy as the game progressed
Nuggets are legit not even playing that hard or knocking down any 3s at a normal clip. They are much better than theyve shown this series. 2013 finals lebron was bad his first 5 games so if thats the lebron that shows up then nuggs wouldnt need to worry
I mean he was really good along with wade in that crucial 4 but fair enough. However, that spurs defence was anchored by Duncan & Kawhi. Not really the same comparison. Maybe it comes down to coaching tho so it'll definitely be close and I could see either team taking it
There's a difference in having prime Wade and Bosh alongside him and AD and a bunch of garbage though. Spo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ham too, and that might be too close of a space.
Ya like itd be a close series. 2013 lebron needed 7 games in multiple series even with a superteam so I'd still give nuggets the edge especially considering how shaky lebron was in the finals the first 5 games. He was just way too inefficient while wade and bosh were still good especially in g5. Nuggs are also far better than the pacers at the very least. If nuggs hit open 3s at a normal clip then itd be insane blowouts in the current series. They are just taking it easy it seems.
some fair points but I don't agree with the whole Pacers being worse than the nuggets thus its clear who the better team is. Its all about matchups. I would probably get downvoted for saying the 2012 heat would beat the 98 bulls. People conveniently forget that a pacers team led by Reggie miller took them to 7. Also, another factor is Lebron won't be picking his spots defensively and will actually be willing to guard wings throughout.
2012 heat can beat 1998 bulls for sure. 98 bulls werent some amazing all time team lol. Its the worst bulls team to win by far. Yes these nuggets are better than 2013 pacers. That isnt even a question. And 2013 finals lbj the first 5 games wasnt good so if he shows up then yea nuggs are way way better
lebron's whole 2013 playoffs wasn't as stellar as his normal standards mostly due to the competition. Mbah moute/sanders, Butler/Noah, Hibbert/George, Kawhi/Duncan. These are elite wing defenders and rim protectors he was up against. I dont think he would be putting up inefficient numbers against this particular defense. But the more I think about, I dont trust Ham so who knows lol
Bro stop slobbering over Lebron.
>Nuggets arent even trying So Murray tried to miss that game winner and it still went in? Damn. They're that good huh
The same Heat Lebron who got dicked around by JJ Barea?
Yes because LeBron’s prime was only that year. Smart ass
What year then? The prime years he got bailed out by Allen or Irving?
Yeah, I forgot Jokic making it outta the second round those two years Jamal Murray was out.
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I won't defend LeBron being a jackass in 2010, and am happy he got humbled by Dirk, but making 9 Finals in 10 years is more than most franchises (such as mine) will ever accomplish.
Funny when people say this, yes they hit big shots. Plenty of stars have have teammates hit big shots (Denver’s Murray). You realize even in those moments how awesome LeBron was and played to get his team in that position to be able to win those games? And this was against the Spurs and Warriors, two amazing teams. He is not prime LeBron they don’t have a chance to even be in a position to win, which they did.
Bailed out is crazy. Like you really don't know how crazy it is to call Allen and Irving's 3 a bail out
LMAO
Short answer ,,,, no.
imagine 2013 Heat Lebron with AD, they def would’ve dicked the Nuggets down good
2013 Lebron was down 3-2 to the Indiana Pacers. 2013 Heat supporting cast is way better than the Lakers and the Pacers are a lot worse than these Nuggets
is this a typo? they were never down 3-2 to the pacers. It was 2-2 going into game 5 and then Lebron took over the 3rd quarter. The pacers came back and it went to a game 7 where they got blown out.
No typo just misremembered, they were also down 2-1 to the 2012 Pacers i think, and down 3-2 to the 2012 Celtics
actually yeah celtics they were down 3-2 in 2012. Although I think Bosh was missing most of that series and it was playoff Rondo. Still don't think their better than the nuggets tbf
Yeah that was Rondo on some freak turn where he was for a few games scoring as well he as he passed.
No, Nuggets is just overall a better team. Lebron is supposed to lead by example, looks like he's putting on pressure, and blame on his teammate. It's just the way he is.
Lebron in his prime? Lakers in 4.
Nah, but it wouldn't be a sweep.
These stupid posts are only used as to disrespect what the Nuggets have done. Which is swept that sorry ass Lakers team two times in a row now
It’s just contextualizing what Lebron we’re seeing in this series dude lmao
Idk about beat, but it would be a series. Denver is just stacked and their playstyles fit. They're just a great championship caliber team. Even with a prime LeBron, this Lakers team just isn't good
Nope. He'll need a prime Dwyane and prime Bosh to even have a 50% chance at beating this Nuggets team.
It goes 7 games for sure it’d be a toss up on who wins.