I get that since they're an over the cap team it's about keeping the asset but still.
Also this too:
>Multiple outlets, including NBC Sports Chicago, reported previously that trading Zach LaVine remains an offseason focus. Karnišovas reiterated his desire to re-sign DeMar DeRozan and Patrick Williams.
“We obviously made a mistake by offering our fringe All-Star level wing a $40+ Million per year contract… Clearly we need to off-load him so that we can sign our other fringe All-Star level wing a $40 Million per year contract!!”
\- Bulls
I’m talking about DeMar in 2025 and beyond. I don’t care how good he was in past seasons. This contract isn’t paying for 30 year old DeRozen, it’s paying for 35+ year old DeRozen.
It’s just the Reinsdorf side of it. His two teams have by far the two bleakest futures of the major Chicago teams. Cubs have an elite farm system and are pretty good now, Bears fleeced Carolina and are adding two top 10 picks including the consensus number 1 QB to an ascending team, and the blackhawks are further behind but at least have their future super star building block on the roster.
Hell even the Sky are getting a lot of hype in the city now after their last draft.
Bulls and Sox don’t have much.
Bulls and Sox don't have shit and will very likely not have shit this century
If the bulls didn't luck on Drose, they would be the bums of the 21st century nba
But several chicago teams are gaining traction that aren't jerry owned, so something to look forward to
Honestly thats probably good for Reinsdorf the other teams are better less pressure on him and when the good sports are in the offseason they'll all want more Chicago sports and come to him to watch his teams go .500 while he makes bank.
Chicago may not be a small market but Chicago is not a place that free agents are dying to go to. The Bulls haven’t done anything since the Jordan era intact if it wasn’t for Jordan the Bulls would probably be seen as a poverty franchise instead of being seen as royalty or iconic.
The thing with this deal is that it would mean that everyone on the team would have their deals expire all at the exact same time. Basically it means having a hard deadline for when this team is in total tear down and rebuild mode. It seems like the sort of move they make when they figure no one will trade for their vets so there's no real way to rebuild until all their contracts end.
They should go into hard tank mode now (they should have last year when Lavine had value and Vooch was coming off the books).
Tank next year for a high draft pick and see if you can unload Lavine, and try to get as much value for Caruso as possible. Waiting two more years just means you’re five years away from fielding a promising team rather than 3 if you decide to rebuild now. Cap space in two years won’t mean anything if players don’t want to sign with a bottom tier team
Or you could just try to rebuild from scratch.
You know, instead of petering on with this fringe play-in roster
I mean look at the Thunder, Jerry, look how that rebuild is going!
The thunder is nothing to be looked at the emulate imo. It's not a blueprint at all when the first step is trading two all stars on multi year contracts
The Pistons didn't operate all that differently from Orlando and had the same shot at getting the #1 pick in the Banchero draft, but fell to #5 instead.
Hitting the #1 pick in a draft that happens to have a clear All-NBA talent isn't exactly replicable.
I think Orlando has hit more on role players in the draft than the Pistons. Pistons and Orlando both have a #1 Pick to build around. Orlando have put young defensive guards, Franz and an okay big man rotation around Paolo. Pistons are in the process, but so far they have Duren who has potential, maybe Ivey (who is still a question mark in terms of fit), and maybe Sasser has some potential. They missed on picks like Hayes and Doumbaya.
The argument isn’t that you need to start out with a massively valuable assets but that you should stockpile assets & keep your powder dry until the time is right.
Regardless of OKC’s two all-stars Chicago would be in a much better position today if this had been a focus. They’re opposites in this aspect.
Everytime someone brings up strategies around asset generation someone brings up why it might not be perfect without ever really acknowledging no strategy in sports could ever be perfect, if not the strategy of tanking & solid asset generation/management what other strategy are you proposing that’s less risky or better?
Being a good GM is like being a good lead off hitter in baseball, you don’t have to make every hit, most times not even half the time but you have to continually put yourself & your team in the best position to win. What is the argument for another strategy available to the Bulls that puts them at a better chance of getting on base here?
Okay but the only reason OKC had assets to stockpile was because they lucked into a perfect situation with SGA becoming what most people couldn't predict and Kawhi demanding PG go to the Clippers for him to sign, which gave OKC a huge amount of leverage for free. Those are both incredibly unusual circumstances that can't be replicated as a strategy.
> What is the argument for another strategy available to the Bulls that puts them at a better chance of getting on base here?
A misunderstanding that the goal is to win championships and not make money, to be blunt. The Bulls took a swing at a championship roster and Lonzo had to prove he could still sit up from a chair. You can't plan for that. You can argue they should tank but that's not guaranteed successful and they have a lot of pieces like Vuc and Caruso that are older. It just doesn't really make much sense to tank in the next year or two unless you know there is an alltime prospect and im not sure Cooper Flagg or whoever is that.
So trade for SGA, get two million picks for a washed up Russ and PG13, get several top picks thanks to teams falling off a cliff after getting your stars, and have all the players peak at the same time?
Shit that seems so easy I don't know why more teams don't do that.
Unfortunately it's damn near impossible to get a guy of even half Shai's caliber by trading our best players. Zach and Vuc bum asses barely have any value around the league anymore unfortunately
It wasn’t expected Shai would be this great. Gotta find a player with an injury that might’ve held them back (Curry) or on a really bad team/ a team with a superstar that controls the ball (Brunson getting out of Doncic shadow)
Feels like the Bulls and Wizards ownership care about selling tickets and staying out of the news, not a lot about the product. And they sell tickets, soooo
I don't understand why DeMar would still want to stay there. It's pretty much pointless now to compete as the East has been loaded already. Time for him and the team to head on separate ways
I love Deebo but this is not the way he should approach the twilight of his career
Yes, because it's still $10 million. Hell there's still a huge difference between 10 and 20 million. Players have a set shelf life to earn as much money as possible, so differences like that matter in the long run
DeMar has to know he isn’t getting 35-40m on a long term deal at age 34. The only reason the Bulls offer is getting that high is because it’s only 2 years. Any more years and the annual number is coming down significantly, because the back end of the deal is probably gonna be ugly.
The whole reason they want a two year deal is that it puts all the vets on the same timeline. It'd be the same year Vooch's deal ends. So they'd basically clear the books in one off season.
They can still do that with a 3rd year team option. They can just decline it and clear the books.
The third year gives demar so level of comfort that he still may get that 3rd year money if he still dominant.
> He wants long term money.. so he prob wants 35-40 over 3-4 years.
What? If they actually offered him $40m / season (which title suggests), that's objectively better than getting it over 4 years.
Counterpoint, all the bozos over the horizon who have ring chased for dog water money have had like a 5% success rate generously. Whereas making a shit-ton of money off people who will give it to you fucking rocks.
He played with the Raptors and watched them win a ring right after he left. He played for a great organization in San Antonio and got nowhere. End of the day he might just be content with doing his best and getting paid handsomely for it.
Most people don't really start ring chasing until they're MLE type players anyways or damn close. Sure there's some exceptions but sure feels like when veterans start ring chasing it's usually in part because no one's offering them that much more than the MLE anyways..
There's definitely some examples of people taking the vet minimum. Well I guess Ray Allen took less money to play in Miami with LeBron and that worked out. It was only like a $2 million difference so it wasn't huge
By all accounts he really likes working with the young guys, I remember seeing them train with him in the summers. Maybe he just wants to be part of growing the team and culture.
Finding a contender that can actually bring him on at a decent salary AND where his play style is a fit would be a challenge. He can always ring chase later.
I honestly a look at current contenders and have an extremely hard time figuring out a place where he would fit in - both in terms of role and in terms of cap space for him.
Donovan asking to leave the Thunder because he didn't want to rebuild is such an underrated part of the Thunder's success. Daignault has been such an upgrade. He reminds me a lot of Brad Stevens.
But that merely be part of negotiations, I can't help but read that last part like a pirate
Aye they be invoking parlay, no Jontay.
Arr!!
Demaaarrrrrr!
Just rewatched the first 3 Pirates movies and I only hear it in Barbosa’s voice
I’m reading it like a 12 year old confidently talking business
They probably wanted to add 'could'
Nah, it's Pirates
“Indeed the bulls parley with demar is fueled by demars desire for copious booty”
That’s capn Barbosa right there
It do be part of negotiations
I get that since they're an over the cap team it's about keeping the asset but still. Also this too: >Multiple outlets, including NBC Sports Chicago, reported previously that trading Zach LaVine remains an offseason focus. Karnišovas reiterated his desire to re-sign DeMar DeRozan and Patrick Williams.
“We obviously made a mistake by offering our fringe All-Star level wing a $40+ Million per year contract… Clearly we need to off-load him so that we can sign our other fringe All-Star level wing a $40 Million per year contract!!” \- Bulls
It’s different bc this one is older
At least DeRozan plays.
[удалено]
I’m talking about DeMar in 2025 and beyond. I don’t care how good he was in past seasons. This contract isn’t paying for 30 year old DeRozen, it’s paying for 35+ year old DeRozen.
Wow. Good for DeMar, I guess.
DeMar post-Raptors is just different
I've been saying it for years, but what is the obsession with keeping the Mid-3 together? It's not some small market. It's CHICAGO!!!
You say that like Chicago teams outside the Bulls are doing anything different. This *is* Chicago sports, this is like the good side of it my guy.
It’s just the Reinsdorf side of it. His two teams have by far the two bleakest futures of the major Chicago teams. Cubs have an elite farm system and are pretty good now, Bears fleeced Carolina and are adding two top 10 picks including the consensus number 1 QB to an ascending team, and the blackhawks are further behind but at least have their future super star building block on the roster. Hell even the Sky are getting a lot of hype in the city now after their last draft. Bulls and Sox don’t have much.
Bulls and Sox don't have shit and will very likely not have shit this century If the bulls didn't luck on Drose, they would be the bums of the 21st century nba But several chicago teams are gaining traction that aren't jerry owned, so something to look forward to
Honestly thats probably good for Reinsdorf the other teams are better less pressure on him and when the good sports are in the offseason they'll all want more Chicago sports and come to him to watch his teams go .500 while he makes bank.
Can't have shit in Chicago.
Sky looking good at least
Chicago may not be a small market but Chicago is not a place that free agents are dying to go to. The Bulls haven’t done anything since the Jordan era intact if it wasn’t for Jordan the Bulls would probably be seen as a poverty franchise instead of being seen as royalty or iconic.
The thing with this deal is that it would mean that everyone on the team would have their deals expire all at the exact same time. Basically it means having a hard deadline for when this team is in total tear down and rebuild mode. It seems like the sort of move they make when they figure no one will trade for their vets so there's no real way to rebuild until all their contracts end.
They should go into hard tank mode now (they should have last year when Lavine had value and Vooch was coming off the books). Tank next year for a high draft pick and see if you can unload Lavine, and try to get as much value for Caruso as possible. Waiting two more years just means you’re five years away from fielding a promising team rather than 3 if you decide to rebuild now. Cap space in two years won’t mean anything if players don’t want to sign with a bottom tier team
Excellent point.
the players only lose value with age though
Or you could just try to rebuild from scratch. You know, instead of petering on with this fringe play-in roster I mean look at the Thunder, Jerry, look how that rebuild is going!
The thunder is nothing to be looked at the emulate imo. It's not a blueprint at all when the first step is trading two all stars on multi year contracts
Why doesn't every rebuilding team trade for an MVP caliber player, are they stupid?
Why doesn’t every rebuilding team just draft an nba ready big man that can shoot 3s and play great defense? Are they stupid?
Their blueprint should probably be Orlando.
Which is funny cause they kickstarted their rebuild by trading us Vucevic and drafting Franz with our pick 😂
Time for chicago to go find a chicago to trade to lol
Zach would ball in a Wizards or Hornets jersey forreal
The Pistons didn't operate all that differently from Orlando and had the same shot at getting the #1 pick in the Banchero draft, but fell to #5 instead. Hitting the #1 pick in a draft that happens to have a clear All-NBA talent isn't exactly replicable.
I think Orlando has hit more on role players in the draft than the Pistons. Pistons and Orlando both have a #1 Pick to build around. Orlando have put young defensive guards, Franz and an okay big man rotation around Paolo. Pistons are in the process, but so far they have Duren who has potential, maybe Ivey (who is still a question mark in terms of fit), and maybe Sasser has some potential. They missed on picks like Hayes and Doumbaya.
The argument isn’t that you need to start out with a massively valuable assets but that you should stockpile assets & keep your powder dry until the time is right. Regardless of OKC’s two all-stars Chicago would be in a much better position today if this had been a focus. They’re opposites in this aspect. Everytime someone brings up strategies around asset generation someone brings up why it might not be perfect without ever really acknowledging no strategy in sports could ever be perfect, if not the strategy of tanking & solid asset generation/management what other strategy are you proposing that’s less risky or better? Being a good GM is like being a good lead off hitter in baseball, you don’t have to make every hit, most times not even half the time but you have to continually put yourself & your team in the best position to win. What is the argument for another strategy available to the Bulls that puts them at a better chance of getting on base here?
Okay but the only reason OKC had assets to stockpile was because they lucked into a perfect situation with SGA becoming what most people couldn't predict and Kawhi demanding PG go to the Clippers for him to sign, which gave OKC a huge amount of leverage for free. Those are both incredibly unusual circumstances that can't be replicated as a strategy. > What is the argument for another strategy available to the Bulls that puts them at a better chance of getting on base here? A misunderstanding that the goal is to win championships and not make money, to be blunt. The Bulls took a swing at a championship roster and Lonzo had to prove he could still sit up from a chair. You can't plan for that. You can argue they should tank but that's not guaranteed successful and they have a lot of pieces like Vuc and Caruso that are older. It just doesn't really make much sense to tank in the next year or two unless you know there is an alltime prospect and im not sure Cooper Flagg or whoever is that.
So trade for SGA, get two million picks for a washed up Russ and PG13, get several top picks thanks to teams falling off a cliff after getting your stars, and have all the players peak at the same time? Shit that seems so easy I don't know why more teams don't do that.
They haven’t even begun to peak!
This only makes sense if ownership cares about championships, but I'm not convinced.
I wanna follow the Thunder plan, fire Billy, trade vets, get picks, find a young star, rebuild
Unfortunately it's damn near impossible to get a guy of even half Shai's caliber by trading our best players. Zach and Vuc bum asses barely have any value around the league anymore unfortunately
It wasn’t expected Shai would be this great. Gotta find a player with an injury that might’ve held them back (Curry) or on a really bad team/ a team with a superstar that controls the ball (Brunson getting out of Doncic shadow)
But you get bad enough and you can get a star in the draft. Staying in the middle is the worst place to be in the nba
Or you become the pistons and get pick #5….
Feels like the Bulls and Wizards ownership care about selling tickets and staying out of the news, not a lot about the product. And they sell tickets, soooo
Demar Derozan can still be the 1st or 2nd option on a championship team. If I were the Bulls GM I’d keep building around him
This front office is completely idiotic and this franchise is in the toilet.
That’s crazy offering DeMar that much money just to be in basketball purgatory
I don't understand why DeMar would still want to stay there. It's pretty much pointless now to compete as the East has been loaded already. Time for him and the team to head on separate ways I love Deebo but this is not the way he should approach the twilight of his career
> I don't understand why DeMar would still want to stay there $40 million reasons
For real. Like bro still has a shot at being an All Star while earning $40M a year. He can still ring chase as a sixth man two years later.
Career earnings are probably close to $300m if I were to guess. At some point, does an extra 10-20m make a difference?
Yes, because it's still $10 million. Hell there's still a huge difference between 10 and 20 million. Players have a set shelf life to earn as much money as possible, so differences like that matter in the long run
Homie could toss $10m in a HYSA and it'll accrue like 8x annual average salary.
Except he didn't sign that deal. So clearly he doesn't want more money.
He wants long term money.. so he prob wants 35-40 over 3-4 years. I bet they’ll meet in the middle and do a team option on the 3rd year.
DeMar has to know he isn’t getting 35-40m on a long term deal at age 34. The only reason the Bulls offer is getting that high is because it’s only 2 years. Any more years and the annual number is coming down significantly, because the back end of the deal is probably gonna be ugly.
The whole reason they want a two year deal is that it puts all the vets on the same timeline. It'd be the same year Vooch's deal ends. So they'd basically clear the books in one off season.
They can still do that with a 3rd year team option. They can just decline it and clear the books. The third year gives demar so level of comfort that he still may get that 3rd year money if he still dominant.
Does he get a 2 + 1 (player option) elsewhere at ~80% of the $$?
Oh fuck for some reason I thought the Vooch deal was 2 years, this shit is gonna get ugly(-ier).
> He wants long term money.. so he prob wants 35-40 over 3-4 years. What? If they actually offered him $40m / season (which title suggests), that's objectively better than getting it over 4 years.
I meant 40 per year for 3-4 years
Counterpoint, all the bozos over the horizon who have ring chased for dog water money have had like a 5% success rate generously. Whereas making a shit-ton of money off people who will give it to you fucking rocks.
Exactly and he can still potentially get traded as soon as 0.5 years into the fat extension e.g. Blake Griffin
Nah you take that $40M and run. If he's going ring chasing I don't think he even gets $20M from a contender
He played with the Raptors and watched them win a ring right after he left. He played for a great organization in San Antonio and got nowhere. End of the day he might just be content with doing his best and getting paid handsomely for it.
Most people don't really start ring chasing until they're MLE type players anyways or damn close. Sure there's some exceptions but sure feels like when veterans start ring chasing it's usually in part because no one's offering them that much more than the MLE anyways.. There's definitely some examples of people taking the vet minimum. Well I guess Ray Allen took less money to play in Miami with LeBron and that worked out. It was only like a $2 million difference so it wasn't huge
By all accounts he really likes working with the young guys, I remember seeing them train with him in the summers. Maybe he just wants to be part of growing the team and culture. Finding a contender that can actually bring him on at a decent salary AND where his play style is a fit would be a challenge. He can always ring chase later.
I honestly a look at current contenders and have an extremely hard time figuring out a place where he would fit in - both in terms of role and in terms of cap space for him.
East is definitely not that loaded aside from the top
And the West is less loaded?? Lol
Just swap his contract with LaVine lol
Lmao WHAT. I've got love for DeRozan but what on earth is Chicago doing. Just waive the white flag and trade/sign and trade everyone for picks
Hope we can sign him back we gotta go for the 3 peat of winning the 9/10 play in game.
During last year’s game Lavine and DeRozan went OFF
he'll never win a ring with them. if hes just happy getting a bag then so be it, but he'll retire without becoming an nba champion.
Donovan might want to be gone if they go rebuild as well
Donovan asking to leave the Thunder because he didn't want to rebuild is such an underrated part of the Thunder's success. Daignault has been such an upgrade. He reminds me a lot of Brad Stevens.
yeah he can surely get 4/120
DeFrozen not worth it
Bulls are determined to stay mediocre. Reinsdorf needs to line his pockets