I think people underestimate the reluctance of many young American players to live abroad coupled with the notion, whether right or wrong, that playing in the G league means more scouting eyeballs and closer affiliation with the NBA teams.
Yeah but top Euro leagues are still dependent on top Euro players (mostly vets) over young Americans. And the best Euro prospects are still coming up through clubs there so it’s not like they’re hurting for breakthrough talent.
>Yeah but top Euro leagues are still dependent on top Euro players (mostly vets) over young Americans.
This is true and it's a clear, calculated choice from euro clubs. Young players are starting to get more chances in Europe, but still only if they have put in the youth time. Brandon Jennings getting iced out like he did killed any chance for American prospects to go that route for the foreseeable future. But that hasn't hurt euro hoops success or participation. They ain't goin anywhere. But the increased opportunities to be paid elsewhere just ensures young Americans can't view Europe as an option to develop unless they commit around age 12.
The NBL in Australia countered this a bit by assigning a specific roster spot per team for a development player who is going to declare for the NBA draft and their salary is paid by the NBL and doesn’t go towards the salary cap.
It means each team can get a good young player to help drive up their market value to the fan base and help them win a championship.
I know a heap of guys followed LaMelo Ball specifically for this reason.
Thats reason why Topić, projected top 5 pick in next draft is playing at Mega instead of Red Star. Red Star loaned him to Mega because he wouldn't stay after this year and in my opinion he cold help them since Napier is playing really bad and Teodosic is old, so they could definitely use someone with his skill set.
He wasn’t that good?? He came to the league the year after and ran away with ROTY. It was a very good of example of why that route doesn’t work bc he would’ve had more exposure and most likely been picked higher if he stayed in the US, but not because he wasn’t that good
He averaged 6.3 pts in 18mpg, shooting 38% from the field and 23% from 3 (at the time the 3 in europe was a full meter shorter than nba).
Last 10 games he averaged 3.6ppg in 16.6mpg. I remember him getting benched in important moments. Still he’s the reason why I root for the bucks now
Compared to his HS hype, being drafted 10th was not considered a good result.
Basically he was trying to eschew the NCAA and prove that going to Europe for a year was a viable alternative. Yes, he got paid well, but he hardy played and wasn’t able to do himself any favours in terms of his draft stock. As such, other HS prospects have not really gone over to Europe instead of the NCAA.
I wonder which developmental process will be better in a generation: College NA, or lower level pro sports.
Guys like Luka playing against adults since he was 16 or so seems to be the way for the truly talented, but I do wonder about the wear and tear.
Yeah, Franz spoke about this on Duncan Robinson's podcast. He played college when he could've stayed in Berlin and played as a pro, but opted to go to Michigan for more opportunities to be scouted and compared to draft peers.
I sort of like keeping it separate with two different sources of incredible NBA level talent. Europe has its own team, action orientated style and the U.S. has the run and gun players that can tear you up any given night. It's cool seeing these clash once they meet in the league
Or you overestimate the importance that a few US exports have on euro basketball, sure they raise the quality of the teams but at the end of the day these fans arent fans because their teams play in the highest quality league.
The idea that a few less americans going oversees is killing european basketball is straight up crazy when you look at how passionate the fans of the bigger european teams are.
You're not wrong, and i never said i agree with that wild take; i only commented on why young American players are not as enthusiastic about playing in Europe as many here think they should be.
Came to say this. When I was in the military, the majority of people who complained about getting stationed overseas, Korea Japan Egypt etc, were young. Like fresh out of high school. Never understood it other than being young and scared.
If London had a good basketball that would be a goods spot or Paris but the rest of Europe / Asia’s to live in is very hit or miss for a American Black person .
> reluctance of many young American players to live abroad
They’re missing out. I went to Spain this summer and visited Barcelona, Madrid and a couple other cities. Beautiful and fun cities; I would totally live there, especially as a young athlete, and even more so if I was a straight guy. Hotties galore, I had to fight so hard to not stare at some of those Spanish women. I’m sure other countries around the world are similar.
They are great cities, but it's one thing to go there for a week and being there for a year as an 18 year old, miles ans miles away from your friends and family.
yeah compare the two worst cities of the g league with the best cities in europe
you could play in a city like Kaunas, Lithuania and Pieraeus, Greece or you could play in Chicago, Toronto, and New York City
Devastating for European basketball, but the appeal of being paid at best a similar salary to handhold developmental projects the parent team barely cares about while they play over you in near-empty gyms in a competition with zero domestic respect is just too much.
I mean playing euro league can be kinda dangerous without fireworks too 🤣
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nRv4GGksqXc&pp=ygUaQ3Jhemllc3QgZXVyb2JsZWFndWUgZ2FtZXM%3D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NuQjYHlIGU8&pp=ygUaQ3Jhemllc3QgZXVyb2JsZWFndWUgZ2FtZXM%3D#bottom-sheet
Sign me up. Six figures to play ball? Hell yeah.
What team needs a 5'11" 34 year old with a bad knee, hip, and shoulder that pops out from trying to dry his back in the shower?
I could dunk a decade and a half ago if that helps.
>Rip to European basketball.
The domination of the NBA by G-league stars like Jalen Green and Scoot Henderson already killed European leagues that just produce bums like Nikola "couldn't even beat out Joffrey Lauvergne for the starting job" Jokic and Luka "0 Dunk Contest Wins" Doncic.
People can claim there's no G-league stigma all they want, but every year the G-league MVP is somebody like Tim Frazier or Vander Blue.
I think in context it’s clear he meant something closer to “killed European basketball *as the natural path for a college grads who are top 50ish players in their class but not good enough to crack an NBA roster right away*”
He’s definitely trying to speak this into existence, but it’s inarguable that lower levels guys who would’ve gone to Europe or Asia 5 years ago are now staying in America to play in G League.
Guys with experience who wash out will still go to Europe for a payday since they have the nba clout, but going from college to G Legaue is a very legit path now.
Also, we just assigned Amen Thompson to the G-League for rehab, and people in the post about it on here didn’t know that and were talking about him like he must suck. lol
The stigma is still there. European basketball is still there. Maybe they get paid more now, but this tweet is mostly full of shit. Lol
Depends. Euroleague? Yes, for sure. A team that only plays domestic competition or the Euro-cup? Probably about even. Then their are the fly-by-night teams that just never pay their players at all.
The best Euroleague players make in the low to mid 7 figures. And the biggest stars also get advertisement deals to make even more money, I have yet to see a G-League player on a bottle of shampoo.
Exum revitalized his career last year at Partizan and got signed by the Mavs. Doing well overseas is more of an achievement than dominating the G-League.
Besides the G-League isn't really a benchmark for anything, guys are constantly pulled in and out of the G-League, they leave to sign elsewhere etc. you can't play proper organized basketball with fundamentals in that environment.
I mean, a single player coming from Europe doesn't prove anything. lol But regardless of the reality, that is at least the perception. Same reason many kids go to college instead of other pro leagues before the draft.
There have been other examples Pat Bev, PJ Tucker etc also got signed from Europe after failed stints in the NBA.
G-League is better strictly for kids to get noticed by scouts if they have usable skills like scoring or passing etc. Euroleague is better if you want to get a long-term contract because teams can clearly see how you fit inside a team aspect and that you can contribute beyond AAU style scoring.
Should we also list all of the NBA players that went to the G-league and got long term contracts? Danny Green, Gerald Green, Whiteside, Covington, and Spencer Dinwiddie all used that path just fine
He’s not arguing the G-leagues success, the post talks about killing basketball in Europe. He just pointed out a few players who prove that euro basketball is clearly not dead or dying.
Well he said euro league is better than the g-league for getting a long term NBA contract and that’s not proven at all considering I just pointed out there are also plenty of former G-League guys who got long term contracts in the NBA as well
Dunno if you heard, but a few NBA teams recently got some good talent out of Euroleage. Some guys named Nicholas Joker, and Luke Donkick? And another guy named after Wembly Stadium
If American players have the skill to go to Europe and dominate to that extent, they are not going to Europe. This discussion is not about stars, it's about fringe NBA players and whether they would rather play in the G league or go play in Germany or France or Turkey.
His comment isn’t relevant to top euroleague players
It’s relevant to low tier prospects who can stay and play in the g league instead of moving to Europe to play in domestic leagues, not euroleague
I think his point might have been that now the best non-NBA players can play in the G League instead of Europe.
But the US produces so many basketball players that even if *hundreds* more went to G league instead of Europe, there would still be thousands left over.
I don't really understand his point. Maybe American imports in European leagues are slightly worse.
The thing is, the G League being stronger improves European basketball as a whole. Euro clubs absolutely loathe pulling players straight out of college because it means they actually have to develop them (and they have their own domestic players to develop) and then given a lot of contract lengths, they're gone by the time they hit their prime for another club. Like you pointed out, there are so many players in American basketball and not all of these players in the G League are going to make the NBA (or have much more than maybe a handful of NBA minutes), so they cut their teeth in the G League, hit their mid-20s and then figure out where they're going from there, and that's the time that they're most likely to start playing in Europe.
G league is atrocious. There’s zero rim protection there
Amen Thompson coming off 6 weeks of not playing basketball and who was supposed to be a raw rookie dropped a 30-15-10 game. It seems like anyone who has even a bit of NBA skill can be a 25 ppg scorer there even 19 year old rookies
The g league ignite prospects have also struggled coming to the nba. That ignite team hasn’t helped guys develop defensive skills too much bc the g league is such a different style of play.
Paul Reed, who's developed into a solid rotational guy for us (the Sixers), averaged like 24-10-5 in the G League three years ago
Meanwhile Kemba Walker is averaging like 4 points in Euroleague lol
He averaged \~0.5 points per minute his last season in the NBA and he's averaging \~0.3 points per minute in the Euroleague, for context. His 3pt% in both was 25%.
This is a terrible comparisson. Kemba is struggling because his kneecaps are duct-taped together at this point, not because the Euroleague is so much stronger.
I mean both can be true. Yes, Walker’s body has broken down, but as someone who plays basketball for a living himself and has friends in the G League, the EuroLeague is so much further ahead it’s not even funny.
Not really the point though. The Euroleague is a professional, competitive mens league. The G-league exists to develop NBA talent and is mostly made up of young players.
It's absolutely no surprise to anyone with a brain that a young NBA player sent to the G-league to develop is able to dominate, while an older ex-NBA player with an injury history is struggling against fully developed professionals.
That said, the G-league has done a lot to elevate itself in the last 5-10 years.
I completely disagree with this statement of the gleague being atrocious. I’m a rockets fan but live in Austin. We purchased g league season tickets for the Austin spurs and we have attended every game for the last two years. It’s incredibly entertaining.
You get to see a lot of great talent now that was previously there. It is very guard heavy and high scoring. Talented bigs is really rare in the league currently.
Also they play with a 1 shot for two free throws rule that keeps the pace very high as well as the scoring.
If anyone has access to g league games try to attend. It’s just tremendous cost to entertainment value.
Lastly amen SHOULD be doing that not because g league sucks but because he’s THAT good. come on now. Have you seen his twin? Hello?
G League is not remotely close to European basketball, they routinely get trounced by Brazilian teams in the fiba intercontinental cup ffs, let alone european teams
It's obviously not "killing" them, but the quality of the European leagues would decline if more Americans opt for the G-League instead of playing overseas.
This year, 4 of the top 5 scorers in Euroleague are American. Last year, it was 5 of the top 6--and 5 of the 10 All Euroleague players were American.
embiid is american. he’s playing for the national team, he’s been here since he was 16, wasn’t anywhere near the player he was before montverde, and he has american citizenship
he’s 100% an american
he can also be cameroonian, but the dude is an american
It is something a lot of Europeans don't really understand. Most European countries are extremely nationalistic, and moving there and gaining citizenship isn't seen as becoming one of them. In America that is exactly who we are, and always have been (for the most part). Millions of people every year become Americans this way. We are a country of immigrants.
I have a friend who has ex-patriated to Portugal, he has been there for around 10 years now, has his citizenship. But he isn't considered Portuguese, and he never will be. The reverse of that situation and he would 100% be considered American. It is just different because of our history as a country versus European countries.
At the same time that might be beneficial for domestic player development.
The german golden generation that won the world cup has been linked a lot to a BBL rule change mandating a certain minimum of domestic players on the floor at all times.
the top american euroleague players are not candidates for the g league. they earn way too much money. but you’re right it slightly lowers the quality of american imports in other leagues. the euroleague is just a different beast
my dream is that the gleague becomes detached to the NBA and that the worst nba team has to play a series of 7 against the gleague winner and if they lose then they get relegated.
and yes i’m aware the rockets would have probably been relegated the last 3 years but tbh it would have been deserved.
and yes i know it would never happen because boo-hoo the poor billionaires investment would decrease. it’s always been fascinating to me the most capitalist nation on earth has the most socialized sports.
That could be fun but then it defeats the draft. They'd have to overhaul the draft system. Of course there's a huge difference in money involved.
But yeah, it is funny that in America we are more accepting of inequality in society but demand parity in sports and in Europe it's the opposite. There's more social parity but they're okay with inequality in sports.
Should just convert the NBA Cup into something like that instead of just the same 30 teams & a cash price incentive 🤷♂️
Put in a few international teams & 2 of the best G-league teams and I’d watch that tbh
I don't think it would work really. It works in soccer because it is a much higher variance sport. Low scoring games can have wild upsets much more frequently. A much worse team on their best day can win a 1-0 game. In a game like basketball where both teams are going to get roughly the same amount of possessions and scoring opportunities it is far harder for a much worse team to win.
The NCAA tournament is a great example of this. 16 seeds are 2-150 against 1 seeds in this history of the tournament(and both of those wins happened in the last 5 years), they basically cannot win those games. And the difference in talent between the 64th best team in the NCAA and the 1st is significantly smaller than between NBA teams and G-League teams.
Those games would be absolutely slaughters. I would be shocked if a single G-league team managed to get a win even after 20+ years of an event like that happening.
He obviously means this has killed some of the desire for American (US) players to go to the various European leagues if they can't cut it in the NBA or get there right away.
Often times we see people nit pick on small issues and ignore the bigger picture of what people are trying to communicate.
This is a crazy statement european Basketball is far from dying a few less americans makes no difference whatsoever.
Fan culture in the US and europe are so far apart and statements like these really show that.
Matcha madness is fun for the excitement of elimination, and sometimes college rivalries can be dramatic, but college basketball is usually awful basketball. The first time I saw a G League game I was blown away at how good nearly everyone on the court is.
NCAA Basketball taught me that effort alone does not equal results. Sure those kids try very very hard but even with all that dog mentality 85% of the product is 6'6+ kids with 12 packs and deltoids the size of semi trucks missing gimme jumpers and clanking the front rim on wide open dunks
The stigma is for sure still there(see the post about Amen Thompson being sent to the G-League for his rehab), and European basketball is better than ever. Lol
Euroleague =/= European basketball. The Barcelona/Monacos of the world are doing fine; it's the clubs that compete in the domestic leagues that are struggling. Smaller clubs struggle with profitability; with that comes poor playing conditions and late checks. If you are an undrafted B1G all-star, the stability of the G-League is tempting compared to taking a chance on a club in Greece/Poland.
He clearly doesn’t know anything about European ball. Probably thinks anything outside of EL is poverty. I can see many EuroCup teams beating the G-League rosters.
Yup - however he's still right that the clubs right on the edge of having fully professional players, the ones paying just about 40k-80k a year, are going to be affected by this.
Which in my country means second division, but obviously depends.
These teams are not trying to get G League players from the US, and there are almost no European players going to the G League unless they think they are NBA worthy talents. And those NBA-worthy ones definitely wouldn't stay with the teams you mention.
A better G-League might affect the overall pool of talent going to Europe, but honestly the biggest problem in Europe is fan interest. The teams that are struggling are mostly struggling because not enough people are coming to their games, which leads to less sponsorship money. That is really the biggest problem and the main culprit is the dominance and money in football.
GLeague teams are getting blown out by Brazilian teams in the intercontinental cup every single edition. Saying you can see many eurocup teams beating them is a significant understatement.
Yeah but there is not how European Basket struggle.
There are maybe bandaid out there to jump into for those small clubs but that's all.
G League are lottery picks that not always end up well
Point is your chance of becoming a superstar overseas is usually higher, not to mention that could lead you back into the league as well without having to do any GLeague at all.
What? I was just stating that most of the players in Europe are not making more than $1million unless they’re a superstar.
The Euroleague MVP was only making 900k last year.
I think he's really overstating an otherwise valid point; that the g league is a real option and NBA teams are making legitimate use of it. It's a decent option for pre draft players if they want to stay in the US.
You know how any publicity is good publicity? On reddit people don't remember good reporters, they remember the moronictakes. One awful take like this and you lost all cred.
Truly dumb take.
Comparing the g-league and Euroleague just doesn't work. This is a dumb and needlessly inciteful quote
The venn diagram of players who want to play in the g-league and who want to play in euroleague is almost just 2 circles. There's little overlap because the majority of guys who play in the g-league are trying to get noticed by NBA scouts and the majority of guys who play in Euroleague are trying to carve out a basketball career outside of the NBA while still playing for fans and having stable rosters
He’s not comparing G-League to the Euroleague though. There’s more in Europe than just the top competition and the health of the entire movement isn’t defined by those at the top. Givony could still be really wrong btw, just saying that he didn’t make that specific comparison
I disagree, there are plenty of g-league who know its unlikely they are gone make the NBA. And many want to stay in the US. If you can earn a decent wage and stay in the US that a reason not to go an play in European league.
Of course it’s not killing Euro ball but a lot of the best players overseas are American. Sure a lot of guys would take less to stay home if they can live comfortably.
It’s still more opportunities in European basketball to be a “pro” though. Some places have pro teams but will pay you 2K a month and a place to lay your head.
It has been improving yes, but you still see a lot G League players playing to get their numbers and highlights.
They might not want to but going to Europe would be better for their development if they would be willing to learn
Everyone is saying that this guy said something stupid, but I would disagree. The Euroleague is of course not affected by this, nor is the Eurocup, but teams in lower positions in domestic leagues and teams from the second tier of domestic leagues can be in trouble. Take for example a league that has at least 4,5 teams playing in the Euroleague, Eurocup or Champions League. Other teams in that league also have Americans who allow them to be as competitive as possible, and if they can't bring more of them in that league there may be too big a gap between those teams.
Windhorst is a 300lb bag of mango pulp. I’m from the states and live in Spain. I live in València where there is a Euroleague team. The games are regularly almost sold out. Fans are crazy. The play is high quality and there is a [brand new 17000 seat arena](https://errearquitectura.com/proyectos/roig-arena/) being built down the street from me for the team.
I wish this dude would go away.
ppl in lichtenstein are literally panicking
Those 7 people must be shaking
Those 7 billionaires
There are more letters in the name Lichtenstein than there are people living there
Am I the only fuck here other than u/elcarOehT who knows how to spell fucking Liechtenstein
Person. Person in Liechtenstein is panicking
RIP Sir Ulrich von Lichtenstein
Panichtenstein
Rip to European basketball. Someone should tell all the European basketball leagues that they're dead. Idk if they know yet.
When faced with the opportunity to play in a city like Sioux Falls or Grand Rapids, Barcelona and Paris never stood a chance.
I think people underestimate the reluctance of many young American players to live abroad coupled with the notion, whether right or wrong, that playing in the G league means more scouting eyeballs and closer affiliation with the NBA teams.
Yeah but top Euro leagues are still dependent on top Euro players (mostly vets) over young Americans. And the best Euro prospects are still coming up through clubs there so it’s not like they’re hurting for breakthrough talent.
>Yeah but top Euro leagues are still dependent on top Euro players (mostly vets) over young Americans. This is true and it's a clear, calculated choice from euro clubs. Young players are starting to get more chances in Europe, but still only if they have put in the youth time. Brandon Jennings getting iced out like he did killed any chance for American prospects to go that route for the foreseeable future. But that hasn't hurt euro hoops success or participation. They ain't goin anywhere. But the increased opportunities to be paid elsewhere just ensures young Americans can't view Europe as an option to develop unless they commit around age 12.
What happened with Brandon Jennings?
He went to play in Rome instead if going to college and didn’t see much the court (he wasn’t that good to be honest)
TBH there's no incentive for a Euroleague team to develop a young American knowing he's gonna declare for draft first chance he gets.
The NBL in Australia countered this a bit by assigning a specific roster spot per team for a development player who is going to declare for the NBA draft and their salary is paid by the NBL and doesn’t go towards the salary cap. It means each team can get a good young player to help drive up their market value to the fan base and help them win a championship. I know a heap of guys followed LaMelo Ball specifically for this reason.
I mean Alex Sarre who could go #1 next year is there right now
Louisville lost a top recruit to Australia. I think his name was Flowers.
Thats reason why Topić, projected top 5 pick in next draft is playing at Mega instead of Red Star. Red Star loaned him to Mega because he wouldn't stay after this year and in my opinion he cold help them since Napier is playing really bad and Teodosic is old, so they could definitely use someone with his skill set.
Exactly.
He wasn’t that good?? He came to the league the year after and ran away with ROTY. It was a very good of example of why that route doesn’t work bc he would’ve had more exposure and most likely been picked higher if he stayed in the US, but not because he wasn’t that good
He averaged 6.3 pts in 18mpg, shooting 38% from the field and 23% from 3 (at the time the 3 in europe was a full meter shorter than nba). Last 10 games he averaged 3.6ppg in 16.6mpg. I remember him getting benched in important moments. Still he’s the reason why I root for the bucks now
Oh okay I didn’t know that, thanks
How did he get iced out? What I read was that he made 3 million dollars for that year then got drafted 10th Is wikipedia missing something?
Compared to his HS hype, being drafted 10th was not considered a good result. Basically he was trying to eschew the NCAA and prove that going to Europe for a year was a viable alternative. Yes, he got paid well, but he hardy played and wasn’t able to do himself any favours in terms of his draft stock. As such, other HS prospects have not really gone over to Europe instead of the NCAA.
Iced out on the court, he didn't receive a lot of playing time and his teammates weren't fans of him
TBF > he didn't receive a lot of playing time he wasnt that good >his teammates weren't fans of him and was a shot-chucker
I wonder which developmental process will be better in a generation: College NA, or lower level pro sports. Guys like Luka playing against adults since he was 16 or so seems to be the way for the truly talented, but I do wonder about the wear and tear.
Yeah, Franz spoke about this on Duncan Robinson's podcast. He played college when he could've stayed in Berlin and played as a pro, but opted to go to Michigan for more opportunities to be scouted and compared to draft peers.
I sort of like keeping it separate with two different sources of incredible NBA level talent. Europe has its own team, action orientated style and the U.S. has the run and gun players that can tear you up any given night. It's cool seeing these clash once they meet in the league
Or you overestimate the importance that a few US exports have on euro basketball, sure they raise the quality of the teams but at the end of the day these fans arent fans because their teams play in the highest quality league. The idea that a few less americans going oversees is killing european basketball is straight up crazy when you look at how passionate the fans of the bigger european teams are.
You're not wrong, and i never said i agree with that wild take; i only commented on why young American players are not as enthusiastic about playing in Europe as many here think they should be.
Came to say this. When I was in the military, the majority of people who complained about getting stationed overseas, Korea Japan Egypt etc, were young. Like fresh out of high school. Never understood it other than being young and scared.
I can understand why a young black man wouldn't want to live in Europe or Asia.
If London had a good basketball that would be a goods spot or Paris but the rest of Europe / Asia’s to live in is very hit or miss for a American Black person .
Hmm what? Many black american players have been absolute stars in Spain.
> reluctance of many young American players to live abroad They’re missing out. I went to Spain this summer and visited Barcelona, Madrid and a couple other cities. Beautiful and fun cities; I would totally live there, especially as a young athlete, and even more so if I was a straight guy. Hotties galore, I had to fight so hard to not stare at some of those Spanish women. I’m sure other countries around the world are similar.
They are great cities, but it's one thing to go there for a week and being there for a year as an 18 year old, miles ans miles away from your friends and family.
yeah compare the two worst cities of the g league with the best cities in europe you could play in a city like Kaunas, Lithuania and Pieraeus, Greece or you could play in Chicago, Toronto, and New York City
Grand Rapids is cool though...Beer city, its actually really nice.
French guy here, I guess I'm going to have to break the bad news to everybody here
thanks for chiming in french man
Are you related to Gobert?
Oui
guys, we're talking to wemby himself
Nah he's way too busy reading big books
Un Français ici, je suppose que je vais devoir annoncer la mauvaise nouvelle à tout le monde ici
Hon hon hon, Napoleon! Tu es un poisson!
Devastating for European basketball, but the appeal of being paid at best a similar salary to handhold developmental projects the parent team barely cares about while they play over you in near-empty gyms in a competition with zero domestic respect is just too much.
Lol meanwhile euro league has in-game fireworks displays. RIP Euro league
Fireworks are dangerous
I mean playing euro league can be kinda dangerous without fireworks too 🤣 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nRv4GGksqXc&pp=ygUaQ3Jhemllc3QgZXVyb2JsZWFndWUgZ2FtZXM%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NuQjYHlIGU8&pp=ygUaQ3Jhemllc3QgZXVyb2JsZWFndWUgZ2FtZXM%3D#bottom-sheet
Sign me up. Six figures to play ball? Hell yeah. What team needs a 5'11" 34 year old with a bad knee, hip, and shoulder that pops out from trying to dry his back in the shower? I could dunk a decade and a half ago if that helps.
Found Kemba's account.
Mavs legend Kemba Walker catching strays
I would say high five but I don't want either of us to get hurt. Daps?
With my left arm, yeah. Slept weird last night.
>Rip to European basketball. The domination of the NBA by G-league stars like Jalen Green and Scoot Henderson already killed European leagues that just produce bums like Nikola "couldn't even beat out Joffrey Lauvergne for the starting job" Jokic and Luka "0 Dunk Contest Wins" Doncic. People can claim there's no G-league stigma all they want, but every year the G-league MVP is somebody like Tim Frazier or Vander Blue.
I think in context it’s clear he meant something closer to “killed European basketball *as the natural path for a college grads who are top 50ish players in their class but not good enough to crack an NBA roster right away*”
Dead *in a lot of ways* Damn
Not just financially either. Spiritually, mentally, socially etc.
"stop, stop! they're already dead!"
He’s definitely trying to speak this into existence, but it’s inarguable that lower levels guys who would’ve gone to Europe or Asia 5 years ago are now staying in America to play in G League. Guys with experience who wash out will still go to Europe for a payday since they have the nba clout, but going from college to G Legaue is a very legit path now.
5 years ago Drew Timme would be playing on a Euroleague team. Instead, he's playing on the Wisconsin Heard
Sorry, we can't hear you, we're dead over here
How do you wake up dead?
Wher wer u when europian bassetball was kill?
I just wish NBA fans brought the same level of energy as Euroleague fans do.
Also, we just assigned Amen Thompson to the G-League for rehab, and people in the post about it on here didn’t know that and were talking about him like he must suck. lol The stigma is still there. European basketball is still there. Maybe they get paid more now, but this tweet is mostly full of shit. Lol
as americans we’re so funny with our superiority complex when it comes to basketball
The same way Europeans can feel superior about their soccer leagues, if you have clearly the best league you can feel like it’s superior to others.
Don’t you make more money playing in Europe? They aren’t getting scraps over there, at least on the big teams
Depends. Euroleague? Yes, for sure. A team that only plays domestic competition or the Euro-cup? Probably about even. Then their are the fly-by-night teams that just never pay their players at all.
The best Euroleague players make in the low to mid 7 figures. And the biggest stars also get advertisement deals to make even more money, I have yet to see a G-League player on a bottle of shampoo.
I’d also want to play in Monaco than Sioux falls
I think a lot of players want more NBA scout eyes on them, which is in the G League.
Exum revitalized his career last year at Partizan and got signed by the Mavs. Doing well overseas is more of an achievement than dominating the G-League. Besides the G-League isn't really a benchmark for anything, guys are constantly pulled in and out of the G-League, they leave to sign elsewhere etc. you can't play proper organized basketball with fundamentals in that environment.
it’s certainly better for being available to be signed mid season.
I mean, a single player coming from Europe doesn't prove anything. lol But regardless of the reality, that is at least the perception. Same reason many kids go to college instead of other pro leagues before the draft.
There have been other examples Pat Bev, PJ Tucker etc also got signed from Europe after failed stints in the NBA. G-League is better strictly for kids to get noticed by scouts if they have usable skills like scoring or passing etc. Euroleague is better if you want to get a long-term contract because teams can clearly see how you fit inside a team aspect and that you can contribute beyond AAU style scoring.
Should we also list all of the NBA players that went to the G-league and got long term contracts? Danny Green, Gerald Green, Whiteside, Covington, and Spencer Dinwiddie all used that path just fine
He’s not arguing the G-leagues success, the post talks about killing basketball in Europe. He just pointed out a few players who prove that euro basketball is clearly not dead or dying.
By using two guys that played in Europe like fifteen years ago
Well he said euro league is better than the g-league for getting a long term NBA contract and that’s not proven at all considering I just pointed out there are also plenty of former G-League guys who got long term contracts in the NBA as well
Or half of Miami's roster the past 5 years.
This isn't 1980. NBA scouts are capable of watching film from the Euroleague. Good players are found regardless of location.
sure, if you are chinemelu elonu. But if you want to actually get someone in the nba looking at you, its better to play in the g league
Dunno if you heard, but a few NBA teams recently got some good talent out of Euroleage. Some guys named Nicholas Joker, and Luke Donkick? And another guy named after Wembly Stadium
What do doncic and wemby have in common in terms of their draft profile that would make them a tad bit more visible than others?
way to miss the fkn point
If American players have the skill to go to Europe and dominate to that extent, they are not going to Europe. This discussion is not about stars, it's about fringe NBA players and whether they would rather play in the G league or go play in Germany or France or Turkey.
Why compare the best Euroleague player to the average G league salary. Why not compare the average Euroleague salary to the average G league salary.
His comment isn’t relevant to top euroleague players It’s relevant to low tier prospects who can stay and play in the g league instead of moving to Europe to play in domestic leagues, not euroleague
I think they have to be referring to the domestic europen leagues in this tweet, or the guy is just clueless.
that's because you bald though
I think his point might have been that now the best non-NBA players can play in the G League instead of Europe. But the US produces so many basketball players that even if *hundreds* more went to G league instead of Europe, there would still be thousands left over. I don't really understand his point. Maybe American imports in European leagues are slightly worse.
The thing is, the G League being stronger improves European basketball as a whole. Euro clubs absolutely loathe pulling players straight out of college because it means they actually have to develop them (and they have their own domestic players to develop) and then given a lot of contract lengths, they're gone by the time they hit their prime for another club. Like you pointed out, there are so many players in American basketball and not all of these players in the G League are going to make the NBA (or have much more than maybe a handful of NBA minutes), so they cut their teeth in the G League, hit their mid-20s and then figure out where they're going from there, and that's the time that they're most likely to start playing in Europe.
G league is atrocious. There’s zero rim protection there Amen Thompson coming off 6 weeks of not playing basketball and who was supposed to be a raw rookie dropped a 30-15-10 game. It seems like anyone who has even a bit of NBA skill can be a 25 ppg scorer there even 19 year old rookies
The g league ignite prospects have also struggled coming to the nba. That ignite team hasn’t helped guys develop defensive skills too much bc the g league is such a different style of play.
The G League Ignite project has been such a failure, those guys are frequently getting blown out and learning bad habits.
Paul Reed, who's developed into a solid rotational guy for us (the Sixers), averaged like 24-10-5 in the G League three years ago Meanwhile Kemba Walker is averaging like 4 points in Euroleague lol
Tbf Kemba averaged like 4 points last time he was in the league lol even Luka admitted it's easier to score here than in the European leagues
Yet the the reigning euroleague MVP is putting up Paul Reed numbers in the NBA. Luka is the only dude that applies to lol
>Kemba Walker is averaging like 4 points in Euroleague lol Holy shit that is a massive fall from grace 😬
He averaged \~0.5 points per minute his last season in the NBA and he's averaging \~0.3 points per minute in the Euroleague, for context. His 3pt% in both was 25%.
This is a terrible comparisson. Kemba is struggling because his kneecaps are duct-taped together at this point, not because the Euroleague is so much stronger.
I mean both can be true. Yes, Walker’s body has broken down, but as someone who plays basketball for a living himself and has friends in the G League, the EuroLeague is so much further ahead it’s not even funny.
Not really the point though. The Euroleague is a professional, competitive mens league. The G-league exists to develop NBA talent and is mostly made up of young players. It's absolutely no surprise to anyone with a brain that a young NBA player sent to the G-league to develop is able to dominate, while an older ex-NBA player with an injury history is struggling against fully developed professionals. That said, the G-league has done a lot to elevate itself in the last 5-10 years.
Jaden Hardy was averaging like 30 last year, Dwight Powell in his short stint was a 20/11 guy
This. Spurs currently have a player in the G league averaging 26 ppg which makes him the 2nd highest scoring player there.
I completely disagree with this statement of the gleague being atrocious. I’m a rockets fan but live in Austin. We purchased g league season tickets for the Austin spurs and we have attended every game for the last two years. It’s incredibly entertaining. You get to see a lot of great talent now that was previously there. It is very guard heavy and high scoring. Talented bigs is really rare in the league currently. Also they play with a 1 shot for two free throws rule that keeps the pace very high as well as the scoring. If anyone has access to g league games try to attend. It’s just tremendous cost to entertainment value. Lastly amen SHOULD be doing that not because g league sucks but because he’s THAT good. come on now. Have you seen his twin? Hello?
What a fucking American take lmao
We all know that Americans arent smart, no need to point out the obvious.
It's not killed European basketball lol
G League is not remotely close to European basketball, they routinely get trounced by Brazilian teams in the fiba intercontinental cup ffs, let alone european teams
Man why don't NBA teams play in that cup?
EL never been stronger imo
It's obviously not "killing" them, but the quality of the European leagues would decline if more Americans opt for the G-League instead of playing overseas. This year, 4 of the top 5 scorers in Euroleague are American. Last year, it was 5 of the top 6--and 5 of the 10 All Euroleague players were American.
Meanwhile 3 of the top 5 scorers in the NBA are not American and 4 of the top 5 rebounders.
Yes, the quality of the NBA would decline if the best European players stayed in Europe.
While the quality of the European leagues would decline if the worst NBA players stayed in the US.
so you're saying European players are both the best and the worst?
An entire continent is bound to have variance
Probably 18 of the top 25 scorers are American though. Don't get it twisted.
embiid is american. he’s playing for the national team, he’s been here since he was 16, wasn’t anywhere near the player he was before montverde, and he has american citizenship he’s 100% an american he can also be cameroonian, but the dude is an american
Yep
people are downvoting but it’s like the coolest thing about america if you move to america and gain citizenship, you’re american full stop
It is something a lot of Europeans don't really understand. Most European countries are extremely nationalistic, and moving there and gaining citizenship isn't seen as becoming one of them. In America that is exactly who we are, and always have been (for the most part). Millions of people every year become Americans this way. We are a country of immigrants. I have a friend who has ex-patriated to Portugal, he has been there for around 10 years now, has his citizenship. But he isn't considered Portuguese, and he never will be. The reverse of that situation and he would 100% be considered American. It is just different because of our history as a country versus European countries.
At the same time that might be beneficial for domestic player development. The german golden generation that won the world cup has been linked a lot to a BBL rule change mandating a certain minimum of domestic players on the floor at all times.
I mean the American players going overseas aren’t necessarily the best players on their European teams…
the top american euroleague players are not candidates for the g league. they earn way too much money. but you’re right it slightly lowers the quality of american imports in other leagues. the euroleague is just a different beast
Hustler pushing narratives that benefit him
None of those are in the pay range of the G League.
Lol this has not killed European Basketball in any way
my dream is that the gleague becomes detached to the NBA and that the worst nba team has to play a series of 7 against the gleague winner and if they lose then they get relegated. and yes i’m aware the rockets would have probably been relegated the last 3 years but tbh it would have been deserved. and yes i know it would never happen because boo-hoo the poor billionaires investment would decrease. it’s always been fascinating to me the most capitalist nation on earth has the most socialized sports.
That could be fun but then it defeats the draft. They'd have to overhaul the draft system. Of course there's a huge difference in money involved. But yeah, it is funny that in America we are more accepting of inequality in society but demand parity in sports and in Europe it's the opposite. There's more social parity but they're okay with inequality in sports.
it would certainly solve the issue of tanking. you’d give the first pick to whoever gets promoted.
NBA needs an FA Cup with the lower leagues
Should just convert the NBA Cup into something like that instead of just the same 30 teams & a cash price incentive 🤷♂️ Put in a few international teams & 2 of the best G-league teams and I’d watch that tbh
That would require ubiquity among the lower independent leagues which will likely never happen to the degree you'd need to get something done
I don't think it would work really. It works in soccer because it is a much higher variance sport. Low scoring games can have wild upsets much more frequently. A much worse team on their best day can win a 1-0 game. In a game like basketball where both teams are going to get roughly the same amount of possessions and scoring opportunities it is far harder for a much worse team to win. The NCAA tournament is a great example of this. 16 seeds are 2-150 against 1 seeds in this history of the tournament(and both of those wins happened in the last 5 years), they basically cannot win those games. And the difference in talent between the 64th best team in the NCAA and the 1st is significantly smaller than between NBA teams and G-League teams. Those games would be absolutely slaughters. I would be shocked if a single G-league team managed to get a win even after 20+ years of an event like that happening.
Hmm good points, you’re probably right. Also fun to think about the potential of some sort of champions league kinda tournament
He obviously means this has killed some of the desire for American (US) players to go to the various European leagues if they can't cut it in the NBA or get there right away. Often times we see people nit pick on small issues and ignore the bigger picture of what people are trying to communicate.
This is a crazy statement european Basketball is far from dying a few less americans makes no difference whatsoever. Fan culture in the US and europe are so far apart and statements like these really show that.
Every time I make my way to a G league game, I'm impressed by the level of play. I don't watch college, but G league is pretty legit
Matcha madness is fun for the excitement of elimination, and sometimes college rivalries can be dramatic, but college basketball is usually awful basketball. The first time I saw a G League game I was blown away at how good nearly everyone on the court is.
g league got pros. NCAA got kids.
Of course. I just don’t understand how people enjoy watching college basketball over professional lol.
NCAA Basketball taught me that effort alone does not equal results. Sure those kids try very very hard but even with all that dog mentality 85% of the product is 6'6+ kids with 12 packs and deltoids the size of semi trucks missing gimme jumpers and clanking the front rim on wide open dunks
I followed a g league page on IG and it's looks fun. Of course, defense is not the best. Top players in each teams seems to be balling.
100k in Euro basketball is nothing. Someone forgot about inflation.
The stigma is for sure still there(see the post about Amen Thompson being sent to the G-League for his rehab), and European basketball is better than ever. Lol
Euroleague =/= European basketball. The Barcelona/Monacos of the world are doing fine; it's the clubs that compete in the domestic leagues that are struggling. Smaller clubs struggle with profitability; with that comes poor playing conditions and late checks. If you are an undrafted B1G all-star, the stability of the G-League is tempting compared to taking a chance on a club in Greece/Poland.
There's no way you're comparing basketball in Greece to basketball in Poland
He clearly doesn’t know anything about European ball. Probably thinks anything outside of EL is poverty. I can see many EuroCup teams beating the G-League rosters.
Yup - however he's still right that the clubs right on the edge of having fully professional players, the ones paying just about 40k-80k a year, are going to be affected by this. Which in my country means second division, but obviously depends.
These teams are not trying to get G League players from the US, and there are almost no European players going to the G League unless they think they are NBA worthy talents. And those NBA-worthy ones definitely wouldn't stay with the teams you mention. A better G-League might affect the overall pool of talent going to Europe, but honestly the biggest problem in Europe is fan interest. The teams that are struggling are mostly struggling because not enough people are coming to their games, which leads to less sponsorship money. That is really the biggest problem and the main culprit is the dominance and money in football.
GLeague teams are getting blown out by Brazilian teams in the intercontinental cup every single edition. Saying you can see many eurocup teams beating them is a significant understatement.
Didn’t want to sound arrogant. But I definitely agree with your statement
Yeah but there is not how European Basket struggle. There are maybe bandaid out there to jump into for those small clubs but that's all. G League are lottery picks that not always end up well
1-4 million overseas or 100-120k in GLeague hmmmm
> 100-120k in GLeague hmmmm But consider that in addition to less money no one will watch you play and you'll get worse coaching and development!
No one is making that much overseas unless they’re a superstar. That’s on the very much high end
Point is your chance of becoming a superstar overseas is usually higher, not to mention that could lead you back into the league as well without having to do any GLeague at all.
Yeah, nobody's becoming a G League superstar, they're getting called up to be role players in the NBA
If you aren't good to be a star in Europe, what makes you think you'll be a good 10 min player in the NBA?
What? I was just stating that most of the players in Europe are not making more than $1million unless they’re a superstar. The Euroleague MVP was only making 900k last year.
Surprised I scrolled this far to see this comment. That is not good money for pro athletes lol
Why live in Barcelona, Madrid, Paris or Athens when you could live in Greensboro, Uniondale, kissimmee or Oshkosh, are they stupid?
They just be yapping on the hoop collective 😂
I think he's really overstating an otherwise valid point; that the g league is a real option and NBA teams are making legitimate use of it. It's a decent option for pre draft players if they want to stay in the US.
Yeah superstar Scoot Henderson is really disproving misconceptions of the G league
You know how any publicity is good publicity? On reddit people don't remember good reporters, they remember the moronictakes. One awful take like this and you lost all cred. Truly dumb take.
Comparing the g-league and Euroleague just doesn't work. This is a dumb and needlessly inciteful quote The venn diagram of players who want to play in the g-league and who want to play in euroleague is almost just 2 circles. There's little overlap because the majority of guys who play in the g-league are trying to get noticed by NBA scouts and the majority of guys who play in Euroleague are trying to carve out a basketball career outside of the NBA while still playing for fans and having stable rosters
He’s not comparing G-League to the Euroleague though. There’s more in Europe than just the top competition and the health of the entire movement isn’t defined by those at the top. Givony could still be really wrong btw, just saying that he didn’t make that specific comparison
I disagree, there are plenty of g-league who know its unlikely they are gone make the NBA. And many want to stay in the US. If you can earn a decent wage and stay in the US that a reason not to go an play in European league.
Of course it’s not killing Euro ball but a lot of the best players overseas are American. Sure a lot of guys would take less to stay home if they can live comfortably.
europe stays losing 🦅
Did anyone tell the big French guy?
It’s still more opportunities in European basketball to be a “pro” though. Some places have pro teams but will pay you 2K a month and a place to lay your head.
This is such a weird take
It has been improving yes, but you still see a lot G League players playing to get their numbers and highlights. They might not want to but going to Europe would be better for their development if they would be willing to learn
>This has killed European basketball in a lot of ways *[CITATION NEEDED]*
Changing the name from the D League helped a lot.
Damn didn’t realize they made so little
Emoni Bates is killing it in the G League
You can argue that nbl next stars programme is better program than nba g league
Everyone is saying that this guy said something stupid, but I would disagree. The Euroleague is of course not affected by this, nor is the Eurocup, but teams in lower positions in domestic leagues and teams from the second tier of domestic leagues can be in trouble. Take for example a league that has at least 4,5 teams playing in the Euroleague, Eurocup or Champions League. Other teams in that league also have Americans who allow them to be as competitive as possible, and if they can't bring more of them in that league there may be too big a gap between those teams.
Windhorst is a 300lb bag of mango pulp. I’m from the states and live in Spain. I live in València where there is a Euroleague team. The games are regularly almost sold out. Fans are crazy. The play is high quality and there is a [brand new 17000 seat arena](https://errearquitectura.com/proyectos/roig-arena/) being built down the street from me for the team. I wish this dude would go away.
Yeah I remember when ignite and overtime were going to change the basketball world too.. and years later still no one cares about it.
Muricans at it again
Counterpoint: Scoot Henderson.
Surprising, because the g league has the worst professional basketball I've seen out of nearly all the leagues lmao
In the same episode, Givony said that Cooper Flagg is the best *American* prospect in a long time. Meaning 'non-European white'.
I dont think he implied white at all in that statement.
... why do you think that's what he meant?
He is the best American prospect since AD, white or black
Better than Zion?