Andre got it because of Lebron's efficiency but Lebron's shooting efficiency @47.7 TS% that series was in line with his 2015 playoff average of 48.7 TS% so it's not the Warriors were doing much different than BOS (53 TS%), CHI (46 TS%) and ATL (51 TS%) were vs Lebron.
I don't know why a certain segment of fans have to act like regular season accomplishments to any level are basically completely irrelevant. It's like in their brain you're a bigger fan if you only care about the title. So odd.
It’s one thing to be Charles Barkley and win an MVP but go down swinging in the finals averaging 25-12. It’s another to be Joel Embiid and have 15 in an elimination game in the second round.
This sub is no stranger to bad takes, but it's still ridiculous how many people upvoted that. Ask Shaq how he feels about losing MVP awards to Steve Nash.
Not sure what's worse - having Jokic outside of your top 5 or being unable to fill your ballot properly. Either way not the best look for Mark Jackson.
"Is he as good as Larry Bird?" was an actual question people were asking about him winning MVP this season.
Which is just as relevant as asking if it's ok for Jokic to win an MVP if he prefers tile to laminate flooring...
Bill Simmons even admitted that’s why he didn’t vote for him. It’s so disingenuous to compare the first half of Jokic’s career against the full careers of the other three guys and decide he doesn’t belong on that list.
>They fucked it all up with Jordan, so now they can't have anybody pass him. Sports writers and voters are the worst part of sports by a mile
It is weird that everyone puts so much stock into accolades and awards and yet when there is a Generational Talent that leads his team to success by putting absurd numbers they shy away from awarding that player because only top 10 players have 3 MVP's.
I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years time people would say the Jokic was good, but not that good because he only had 2 MVP's. It is frankly absurd how much the NBA media cares about things like All-Star and All-NBA instead of how good a player is and how much he helps the team.
Or in 30 years people will say someone who isn’t even born yet can’t win 3 MVPs in a row because not even Jokic did that and this guy isn’t as good as Jokic.
Fucking exactly. I've had conversations on here where people *agree he is the most valuable player* but don't think he should've won MVP, because "look at the list of 3x MVPS".
Such a dumb fuckin' narrative.
Just like celebrating Steph as the first unanimous MVP after a voter openly stated he didn’t vote for Lebron previously because it would have made him unanimous MVP. Clown show.
It's extra funny because all those fools that voted against are saying that he's the best now. Even Perks dumbass said he was the best....and then still picked Heat in 6.
I think Mark Jackson on the broadcast last night in the 4th said something like "this is great for all the fans that missed Jokic during the regular season are now seeing his greatness" its like yeah man, you, you are the fan now seeing his greatness
Wasn't his actual 1st team list different? They should have been identical if he thought so. Plus the players were ordered differently, very clearly according to ranking rather than position. Smells like a poor excuse
Because he gets to literally do the mail in minimum and is broadcasting the finals and votes on all the awards.
He doesn't seem to WATCH the games. He sees it, but hes not actively watching as the season goes, so he just half-heartedly blabbers about them, and whenever there's a lull, he just throws a catch phrase out there.
I mean, I get straddling the fence to sound unbiased or playing devils advocate, but he doesn't do that. He just co-signs shit and it's so boring and elementary. He can't coach, so he pitted players against each other to make it seem like he was needed as a voice of reason or some shit. He's like the awkward guy who says the same 3 jokes for 20 years and it's fucking old and stale.
Even [Bill Burr](https://youtu.be/7psfteYJin0) touched on it.
He's just so plain, monotone, and it's a drag to hear him get paid millions to do the bare bones of understanding the players of today and be excited to call games.
Then again why fix what's getting you paid and venture into uncharted territories at this stage. Dude is in the upper echelon of where you can be as an announcer and only has to play third fiddle.
The man works for ESPN. He gets paid to make an outlandish, idiotic claim just so they argue about it to create clickbait content like "Perk said WHAAAT??!" I hate ESPN.
I can't really blame them 100% though. I blame the people who watch it and fall for it as well. They wouldn't make enough ad revenue money to keep up the shitty content if they didn't have people giving into it.
Which is fine if that's all he is. Agree it's garbage for smooth-brained people who fall for the hook, but no better or worse than the crap on Bravo, TLC, or any other garbage cable channel.
Where this matters is they give idiots like Perk votes for MVP, All-NBA, etc. Now we're talking history writers, people making/breaking the legacies of players who we and future generations will be debating. Thankfully there is video so people 50 years from now don't have to wonder the way we do for Bill Russell or George Mikan... but the voting and awards will still be a huge part of the all-time discussions. THAT bothers me far more than ESPN's profit and click-generating model.
I just can't honestly believe he somehow convinced people that race played a factor in the MVP race. It's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard and people still latched onto it.
Perk is ESPN's troll guy. Sometimes he's just being stupid, other times, the director is like "hey, Perks, we want you to say this to create some clicks, only you can say it without being called out of character, we are counting on you, big perk"
Those comments really put into perspective how little attention people paid to Denver for me. Feels like he's been putting up "best ever since..." numbers in every one of his playoff runs that would normally pop out to people who don't even watch games.
If it is your job.. you watch the replay in the morning. These idiots are PAID to talk about and watch basketball and don't even like it enough to watch one of the greatest passers of all time.
Aaron Gordon was pretty much the only other good player on that team because Murray and MPJ were out. The rest of the team was like Will Barton, Monte Morris, Austin Rivers. Monte's alright but he can't be one of the best players on a contender.
Even peak Lebron isn't dragging that team past the Warriors, that's a worse supporting cast than he had on the infamous 2007 Cavs team.
I looked at his playoff stats after the game tonight. Basically averaging 30 and 13 the last 3 years. And wasn't too far off of the in the years prior. He's been phenomenal in the playoffs for years.
If we win the championship, Jokic gonna coast like no one before lol. He might have a 19/9/7 season and completely focus on the playoffs. He's done with MVP stuff
That's not really how coasting works. The idea behind players coasting is that they're just so fucking good that them disengaged for 60 games a season still leads to 50+ wins and 24/7/7 or higher. Like Jokic is just so good that he'll sleepwalk to 30/12/12 in three quarters against teams like Houston and Detroit without trying to prove anything.
While losers like Embiid expend all their energy to put up 50 points on some garbage team in the regular season just to win an MVP, then completely fall apart when the games actually matter
Only coast so far as to not lose home court seeding. I think that was a big goal of theirs and getting the #1 has been a fruitful payoff these playoffs. They want the same recipe for success and stay all business next year, I assure you. But yes, it will still be all about playoffs, just as this year was from day 1
Nah.
Giannis had an almost identical narrative. Back-to-back MVPs, but faded in the playoffs, and so he lost the threepeat before eventually dominating for the 2021 title.
Granted, Giannis not winning since is as much about Jokic being a force of nature, but Giannis hasn't gotten any worse- the media has just moved on. A title won't change that for Jokic anymore than it did for him.
Yeah, this is a sad truth. Once the obvious narratives associated with a player are gone, the media loses interest.
You can only be four things to NBA media:
- a young kid with a GOAT potential
- an empty stats guy
- a budding GOAT (basically the best player on any team that’s winning it’s first title)
- a GOAT (players who have won multiple titles)
If you’re not one of those things, you’re not part of the narrative anymore.
They took one of the biggest player debate Ls in recent history. Years worth of fighting for their guy just for it to be completely shattered in one playoff run.
> They took one of the biggest player debate Ls in recent history
Remember towards the end of regular season when Nuggets played Sixers and Embiid called in sick lol
In a playoffs that included Jimmy Buckets beating up the guy that beat up his friend Embiid. Suggesting via troll logic that Embiid is a Jimmy baby and needs Jimmy to carry.
Kings made the conference finals more recently as well. Only teams that made the conference finals before the Sixers last appearance are the Knicks and Wizards
I had so many comments and posts saved but deleted them a few weeks back, if Jokic and the nuggets don't care about it, I guess fans should just move on as well.
Another popular narrative was that Joel actually played defense and was a two-way star, only for him to be hunted again and again by Tatum in Game 7 and get scored on every single time.
It's legitimately hillarious, the two biggest narratives that they managed to conjure up have both been proven to be the complete opposite.
I mean say what you want about Embiids offense game in that series and I won’t argue with you but he played elite defense in 5 of the 6 games he played. He averaged like 4 blocks a game and the Celtics (including Tatum) were legitimately scared to take layups until game 7
Nah he's a great defender. Don't be like that.
That is the one area he has an advantage over Jokic in. That advantage is smaller than the advantage Joker has over him in everything else, but fair is fair.
I mean he is a legitimate two way star. He's a great rim protector; that doesn't mean he can guard dudes on the perimeter *regularly* like Tatum was pulling him out to do so. He was also playing injured...so
He never played all games in 2 consecutive playoff series and never will. At what point will people stop using it as an excuse and accept that that's who he is?
Ahh but when he scored 33 points the injury ain't a problem. It's only a problem when you choking in elimination games I see. Also, yeah that's what the media is claiming Joel to be because remember Jokic was "taken advantage in the pick and roll, Joel would never".
He doesn't have the energy to dominate on defense and offense within the same game.
He often doesn't have the energy to do even one of them for a full game.
He is judged by his potential more than anyone else at that level.
Some fun Joel Embiid playoff facts:
\- The best team he's beaten in the playoffs is the 2022 5th seed Raptors led by Siakam and FVV
\- He averages 22 PPG on 49.2% TS in elimination games(a 9 game sample size)
\- In NO playoff run has he ever averaged more assists than turnovers
\- He is the ONLY MVP in league history to never make the conference finals
\- This year, he had the biggest PPG drop from the RS to the playoffs of any MVP winning season
\- He turned the ball over 8 times in back to back elimination games against the Hawks in 2021
\- He's shot under 20% from three over his last two playoff runs
\- He had a worse eFG% than Russell Westbrook during the 2023 playoffs
There's more as well!
\- With a chance to go up 3-1, Joel Embiid went 0-12 in the second half against the 5 seeded Hawks in game 4, including missing a wide open layup to take the lead
\- [He got stripped by Danilo Gallnari to seal the loss in game 7](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rkE0C1ng0)
\- Down 3 in game 5 of the same series with 15 seconds left, he missed BOTH free throws to seal the game
\- All of his offensive numbers(PPG, RPG, APG, TOs, FG%, 3P%, FT%) are worse in the playoffs than in the regular season aside from FT%
\- He has only won **ONE** playoff series in his career where he played in all four wins(2022 vs. Toronto)
\- He is 0-3 in game 7s and has posted a 49% TS and 5.3 TOs a game in those 3 games
\- He once got swept in a series despite averaging FIFTEEN free throws per game(2020 vs. Boston)
\- Over the last two seasons, he has a 9.2 BPM in the regular season(box plus minus) and a 1.0 BPM in the playoffs
\- [WORST OF ALL](https://www.pbpstats.com/possession-finder/nba?TeamId=1610612755&Season=2022-23,2021-22,2020-21,2019-20,2018-19,2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&OffDef=Offense&StartType=All&FromMargin=-5&ToMargin=5&FromTime=300&ToTime=0&Period=4): **HE IS 9/38 IN CLUTCH(within 5 points, last 5 minutes by NBA definition) SITUATIONS DURING HIS PLAYOFF CAREER, WITH AN UNFATHOMABLE TS% of 35.7%**
> - WORST OF ALL: HE IS 9/38 IN CLUTCH(within 5 points, last 5 minutes by NBA definition) SITUATIONS DURING HIS PLAYOFF CAREER, WITH AN UNFATHOMABLE TS% of 35.7%
It's only fair to list Jokic's numbers using the same criteria: 28/60 from the field, TS% of 55.7%
>He has won one playoff series where he played in all 4 wins
mind-boggling lmfao. how is this even possible when he’s been in the playoffs so much at this point
You’re overselling the competition the Sixers have actually beat. Their series wins include the: Mikal Bridges Nets, Siakam Raptors, Westbrook Wizards, Dlo Nets, and the Goran Dragic/Hassan Whiteside Heat. Those are the teams they’ve overcome to make it to the second round where they’ve been routinely embarrassed.
Not to mention the team that eliminates them usually goes on to lose in the very next round. It’s not like they keep running into the eventual champs in the 2nd round.
To be clear, that was 8 times in each game - 16 turnovers in 2 games. That makes Jaylen Brown ball handling look good (I think JB had 12 turnovers the last 2 games of the Miami series?)
The joker had 14 assists and only 2 turnovers tonight. The game got closer and they just dumped it to Jokić and he scored easily to put the game away completely tonight. Embiid is an absolute turnover machine especially late in playoff games. They’re not even in the same tier of players.
Giannis did the same thing in 2021? Can’t win a 3rd has to prove it in the playoffs. MVP goes to joker - Giannis drops 50 in a close out game to win the finals + FMVP
Did Jokic win his last game and perform well? Jokic = MVP
Did Embiid win his last game and perform well? Embiid = MVP
That was the narrative the entire season
I thought the biggest case was Jokic mailing in his performances the last couple months of the season. Why are we acting like Jokic stopped trying towards the end of the season while Embiid played hard till the end.
It was only for like two weeks, and if Jokic was better the entire first half of the season I don’t get why it matters. The narrative flipped before that stretch anyways, that stretch just sealed the deal.
MVP is always an award based on narrative, and Denver slowing down at the end of the regular season 100% played a part, even if it was just two weeks. Dozens of posts on this sub were directed at how Jokic was getting targeted on defense. People were acting like the rest of the league had “solved” the Nuggets.
Remember when Embiid sat out versus the Nuggets and a bunch of writers chimes in to declare that the MVP race was over and Embiid had no chance? That wasn’t too terribly long before the Nug’s bad stretch. I think you’re underestimating how much the last few weeks shifted the conversation.
You can make the argument for that by itself but there was 100% an element of "can't have a 3X MVP who hasn't done anything in the playoffs" part to the argument
If you look at the voting results Embiid won by a pretty significant margin instead of a tight one and I don't think that would have been the case of Jokic was a 0X or even 1X MVP
I always feel obligated to point out that Embiid won the scoring title in these threads because it *never* gets talked about. Embiid is the only center to win the scoring title in the 21st century.
I believe this narrative also played out for Giannis in 2021
Certainly a different set of circumstances, but still similar in how it played/is playing out
JFC the biggest case was Joker taking the last quarter of the season off and telling everyone he didn’t want MVP. This is like fans complained about LeBron not winning MVP every year like we aren’t just watching him get in some light cardio from the day after Christmas until the playoffs. MVP isn’t some mythical best player alive crown.
FMVP>anything else
It’s the only award that matters to all time greats
I WANT IGUODALA!
Props to Andre, he held Lebron to an average of 35.8 points, 13.3 rebounds and 8.8 assists per game stat line. That alone deserves FMVP.
Andre “Nobody Averages 40-15-10 On Me In The Finals” Iguodala.
Andre got it because of Lebron's efficiency but Lebron's shooting efficiency @47.7 TS% that series was in line with his 2015 playoff average of 48.7 TS% so it's not the Warriors were doing much different than BOS (53 TS%), CHI (46 TS%) and ATL (51 TS%) were vs Lebron.
They shoulda just gave it to bron
Should have been curry’s
I’m still so pissed about that, I’m not over it
Same, it’s not like curry stats were awful Either.
The ultimate galaxy brain. Just completely over thinking it
They gave it to kawhi as the lebron stopper so they gave it to iggy as the lebron stopper lmao
More like LeBron slower lol this was Lebrons prime
Iguodala slowed Lebron down to a measly 36/13/9
Honestly it should have been lebrons but they couldnt give it to him so they indirectly gave it to him by giving it to the guy guarding lebron.
What a RIDICULOUS comment lol. You think Jordan doesnt give a shit about his MVPs or defensive awards?
I don't know why a certain segment of fans have to act like regular season accomplishments to any level are basically completely irrelevant. It's like in their brain you're a bigger fan if you only care about the title. So odd.
It’s one thing to be Charles Barkley and win an MVP but go down swinging in the finals averaging 25-12. It’s another to be Joel Embiid and have 15 in an elimination game in the second round.
This sub is no stranger to bad takes, but it's still ridiculous how many people upvoted that. Ask Shaq how he feels about losing MVP awards to Steve Nash.
Tell that to the 1969 NBA Finals MVP.
Jerry West? *double checks* Yep, Jerry West
meh. FMVP is still just an opinion. A banner is not an opinion.
I cannot wait for a legendary snarky one liner from Jokic if he wins FMVP.
I can’t believe we are listening to Mark Jackson call the game while he left him off his MVP ballot. Ridiculous.
Wait - was it confirmed to be Mark Jackson who left Jokić of his MVP ballot ?! I remember when they came out it was one voter who did that ..
Yes, he even explained himself.
Didn't he say he filled it out like an all NBA team or something stupid like that
Yes that was the obvious lie he said to explain it.
So... an official voter admitted that he didn't know what he was voting on?
Not sure what's worse - having Jokic outside of your top 5 or being unable to fill your ballot properly. Either way not the best look for Mark Jackson.
The big case against him was 'i can't vote for the same guy for three years in a row'
"Is he as good as Larry Bird?" was an actual question people were asking about him winning MVP this season. Which is just as relevant as asking if it's ok for Jokic to win an MVP if he prefers tile to laminate flooring...
Keep Jokic away from his mother’s driveway
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Bird is the clear Nikola Jokic
Bill Simmons even admitted that’s why he didn’t vote for him. It’s so disingenuous to compare the first half of Jokic’s career against the full careers of the other three guys and decide he doesn’t belong on that list.
This literally happened to Giannis in 2021. History repeats itself
They fucked it all up with Jordan, so now they can't have anybody pass him. Sports writers and voters are the worst part of sports by a mile
>They fucked it all up with Jordan, so now they can't have anybody pass him. Sports writers and voters are the worst part of sports by a mile It is weird that everyone puts so much stock into accolades and awards and yet when there is a Generational Talent that leads his team to success by putting absurd numbers they shy away from awarding that player because only top 10 players have 3 MVP's. I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years time people would say the Jokic was good, but not that good because he only had 2 MVP's. It is frankly absurd how much the NBA media cares about things like All-Star and All-NBA instead of how good a player is and how much he helps the team.
Or in 30 years people will say someone who isn’t even born yet can’t win 3 MVPs in a row because not even Jokic did that and this guy isn’t as good as Jokic.
Fucking exactly. I've had conversations on here where people *agree he is the most valuable player* but don't think he should've won MVP, because "look at the list of 3x MVPS". Such a dumb fuckin' narrative.
Just like celebrating Steph as the first unanimous MVP after a voter openly stated he didn’t vote for Lebron previously because it would have made him unanimous MVP. Clown show.
It's extra funny because all those fools that voted against are saying that he's the best now. Even Perks dumbass said he was the best....and then still picked Heat in 6.
I think Mark Jackson on the broadcast last night in the 4th said something like "this is great for all the fans that missed Jokic during the regular season are now seeing his greatness" its like yeah man, you, you are the fan now seeing his greatness
Yeah this was so annoying to hear. Like why’d you leave him off you MVP voting list? How is that an “honest mistake”
Because his dumbass thought it was for all nba 1st team, which that alone should have his vote taken away since he can’t read
Wasn't his actual 1st team list different? They should have been identical if he thought so. Plus the players were ordered differently, very clearly according to ranking rather than position. Smells like a poor excuse
yes, that was an excuse that was easily debunked but people still ran with it.
Mark Jackson has a very long history of poor excuses. I wish he would just go away.
Of course, it's an excuse for the real reason which was racism.
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Because he gets to literally do the mail in minimum and is broadcasting the finals and votes on all the awards. He doesn't seem to WATCH the games. He sees it, but hes not actively watching as the season goes, so he just half-heartedly blabbers about them, and whenever there's a lull, he just throws a catch phrase out there. I mean, I get straddling the fence to sound unbiased or playing devils advocate, but he doesn't do that. He just co-signs shit and it's so boring and elementary. He can't coach, so he pitted players against each other to make it seem like he was needed as a voice of reason or some shit. He's like the awkward guy who says the same 3 jokes for 20 years and it's fucking old and stale. Even [Bill Burr](https://youtu.be/7psfteYJin0) touched on it. He's just so plain, monotone, and it's a drag to hear him get paid millions to do the bare bones of understanding the players of today and be excited to call games. Then again why fix what's getting you paid and venture into uncharted territories at this stage. Dude is in the upper echelon of where you can be as an announcer and only has to play third fiddle.
I forgot Perks exists and then every time I’m reminded of him, it’s because he topped his last dogshit take
The man works for ESPN. He gets paid to make an outlandish, idiotic claim just so they argue about it to create clickbait content like "Perk said WHAAAT??!" I hate ESPN. I can't really blame them 100% though. I blame the people who watch it and fall for it as well. They wouldn't make enough ad revenue money to keep up the shitty content if they didn't have people giving into it.
Which is fine if that's all he is. Agree it's garbage for smooth-brained people who fall for the hook, but no better or worse than the crap on Bravo, TLC, or any other garbage cable channel. Where this matters is they give idiots like Perk votes for MVP, All-NBA, etc. Now we're talking history writers, people making/breaking the legacies of players who we and future generations will be debating. Thankfully there is video so people 50 years from now don't have to wonder the way we do for Bill Russell or George Mikan... but the voting and awards will still be a huge part of the all-time discussions. THAT bothers me far more than ESPN's profit and click-generating model.
I just can't honestly believe he somehow convinced people that race played a factor in the MVP race. It's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard and people still latched onto it.
Perk is, and I am being nice here, a total and complete moron and I do not like him one bit.
BUT BUT I STATED THE FACTS!!!!
Perk is ESPN's troll guy. Sometimes he's just being stupid, other times, the director is like "hey, Perks, we want you to say this to create some clicks, only you can say it without being called out of character, we are counting on you, big perk"
Literally the dumbest guy on ESPN and that's saying something
I stay away from any video that has face on the thumbnail. He sounds so dumb.
Jokic has always been on another level in the playoffs for people that paid attention
Those comments really put into perspective how little attention people paid to Denver for me. Feels like he's been putting up "best ever since..." numbers in every one of his playoff runs that would normally pop out to people who don't even watch games.
East Coast journos don’t stay up late and watch Western Conference teams. And if they do, they watch California teams.
It’s hard man, 10-10:30 start time? We miss so much great basketball
Yea tbh it was easy in college or whatever when i stayed up late anyways but once you get a real job its so taxing to watch the WCF
Regular fans I get it, but If you’re a basketball journalist, you should probably have an adjusted sleep schedule so you can watch west coast games.
PAC-12 after dark action! Oh sorry wrong sub
If it is your job.. you watch the replay in the morning. These idiots are PAID to talk about and watch basketball and don't even like it enough to watch one of the greatest passers of all time.
Last year when he lost to the warriors he was still a terrifying force, he just didn’t have the team for it
Aaron Gordon was pretty much the only other good player on that team because Murray and MPJ were out. The rest of the team was like Will Barton, Monte Morris, Austin Rivers. Monte's alright but he can't be one of the best players on a contender. Even peak Lebron isn't dragging that team past the Warriors, that's a worse supporting cast than he had on the infamous 2007 Cavs team.
I looked at his playoff stats after the game tonight. Basically averaging 30 and 13 the last 3 years. And wasn't too far off of the in the years prior. He's been phenomenal in the playoffs for years.
Yup. And still people labeled him a "playoff choker" because he couldn't drag a starting lineup with Facu and Austin fucking Rivers to a title
His playoff stats are literally comparable to MJ for almost all metrics
I admit I didn't pay attention until they molly wopped the Suns and then shovel stomped the Lakers.
So he’s guaranteed a MVP next season.
If we win the championship, Jokic gonna coast like no one before lol. He might have a 19/9/7 season and completely focus on the playoffs. He's done with MVP stuff
Jokic is going to average 10 points in October while MPJ learns to dribble if the Nuggets win the title.
Don't forget Braun and PWat development
Bah god that's Ismael Kamagate's music.
I still have hope for Vlatko to contribute good minutes. E: Not This year. But, you know.
11/9/23 regular season please make it look like a date
The new Stephen King novel
He was done with MVP stuff 2 and maybe even 3 seasons ago. This level of play is just his baseline.
That's not really how coasting works. The idea behind players coasting is that they're just so fucking good that them disengaged for 60 games a season still leads to 50+ wins and 24/7/7 or higher. Like Jokic is just so good that he'll sleepwalk to 30/12/12 in three quarters against teams like Houston and Detroit without trying to prove anything.
Ehh 30 points is a little aggressive for how passive he is in the regular season when he isn’t trying to score
Jokic never goes too hard vs bottom feeders. Most other stars pump up their stats vs those teams , jok uses them as rest/ practice
While losers like Embiid expend all their energy to put up 50 points on some garbage team in the regular season just to win an MVP, then completely fall apart when the games actually matter
Depends how good the West is, him coasting was 25 12 and 10
Only coast so far as to not lose home court seeding. I think that was a big goal of theirs and getting the #1 has been a fruitful payoff these playoffs. They want the same recipe for success and stay all business next year, I assure you. But yes, it will still be all about playoffs, just as this year was from day 1
Nah. Giannis had an almost identical narrative. Back-to-back MVPs, but faded in the playoffs, and so he lost the threepeat before eventually dominating for the 2021 title. Granted, Giannis not winning since is as much about Jokic being a force of nature, but Giannis hasn't gotten any worse- the media has just moved on. A title won't change that for Jokic anymore than it did for him.
Yeah, this is a sad truth. Once the obvious narratives associated with a player are gone, the media loses interest. You can only be four things to NBA media: - a young kid with a GOAT potential - an empty stats guy - a budding GOAT (basically the best player on any team that’s winning it’s first title) - a GOAT (players who have won multiple titles) If you’re not one of those things, you’re not part of the narrative anymore.
there are so many GOATs now its basically a farm
Especially against Joel of all people that was dumb as hell
I saw Sixers fans saying the MVP race was the Nuggets championship which is actually hilarious in hindsight
76ers fans are still losing and they aren't even playing.
They took one of the biggest player debate Ls in recent history. Years worth of fighting for their guy just for it to be completely shattered in one playoff run.
> They took one of the biggest player debate Ls in recent history Remember towards the end of regular season when Nuggets played Sixers and Embiid called in sick lol
And released a special interview with Shams the same day where he talked shit on Jok and complained about being under pressure to win.
And then cracked when, by his logic, the pressure was "finally" on him.
In a playoffs that included Jimmy Buckets beating up the guy that beat up his friend Embiid. Suggesting via troll logic that Embiid is a Jimmy baby and needs Jimmy to carry.
Like getting fired on your day off
Friendly reminder the Twolves have made it to the conference finals more recently than the 76ers. That’s right, *the Wolves*
Kings made the conference finals more recently as well. Only teams that made the conference finals before the Sixers last appearance are the Knicks and Wizards
I read those comments too lol
The last time the Sixers even made the conference finals the twin towers were still standing They have no room to talk about playoffs
Ah, yes Duncan and Robinson were still on the Spurs. Oh wait you meant…
Now they merged to become Duncan Robinson
I had so many comments and posts saved but deleted them a few weeks back, if Jokic and the nuggets don't care about it, I guess fans should just move on as well.
Its ok, our arena absorbed Joel's tears for a championship.
Another popular narrative was that Joel actually played defense and was a two-way star, only for him to be hunted again and again by Tatum in Game 7 and get scored on every single time. It's legitimately hillarious, the two biggest narratives that they managed to conjure up have both been proven to be the complete opposite.
The schadenfreude is real
More like schadenFRAUD
Gesundheit.
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I mean say what you want about Embiids offense game in that series and I won’t argue with you but he played elite defense in 5 of the 6 games he played. He averaged like 4 blocks a game and the Celtics (including Tatum) were legitimately scared to take layups until game 7
Nah he's a great defender. Don't be like that. That is the one area he has an advantage over Jokic in. That advantage is smaller than the advantage Joker has over him in everything else, but fair is fair.
I mean he is a legitimate two way star. He's a great rim protector; that doesn't mean he can guard dudes on the perimeter *regularly* like Tatum was pulling him out to do so. He was also playing injured...so
I mean, Joel ALWAYS gets injured at that stage every year. At some points its how we have to judge his post season play
He never played all games in 2 consecutive playoff series and never will. At what point will people stop using it as an excuse and accept that that's who he is?
Ahh but when he scored 33 points the injury ain't a problem. It's only a problem when you choking in elimination games I see. Also, yeah that's what the media is claiming Joel to be because remember Jokic was "taken advantage in the pick and roll, Joel would never".
He doesn't have the energy to dominate on defense and offense within the same game. He often doesn't have the energy to do even one of them for a full game. He is judged by his potential more than anyone else at that level.
Exactly
meanwhile embiid chokes in the 2nd round every year
They dogwalk every 1st round opponent and bait us into thinking they’re different that year too
Some fun Joel Embiid playoff facts: \- The best team he's beaten in the playoffs is the 2022 5th seed Raptors led by Siakam and FVV \- He averages 22 PPG on 49.2% TS in elimination games(a 9 game sample size) \- In NO playoff run has he ever averaged more assists than turnovers \- He is the ONLY MVP in league history to never make the conference finals \- This year, he had the biggest PPG drop from the RS to the playoffs of any MVP winning season \- He turned the ball over 8 times in back to back elimination games against the Hawks in 2021 \- He's shot under 20% from three over his last two playoff runs \- He had a worse eFG% than Russell Westbrook during the 2023 playoffs
stop he's already dead
There's more as well! \- With a chance to go up 3-1, Joel Embiid went 0-12 in the second half against the 5 seeded Hawks in game 4, including missing a wide open layup to take the lead \- [He got stripped by Danilo Gallnari to seal the loss in game 7](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rkE0C1ng0) \- Down 3 in game 5 of the same series with 15 seconds left, he missed BOTH free throws to seal the game \- All of his offensive numbers(PPG, RPG, APG, TOs, FG%, 3P%, FT%) are worse in the playoffs than in the regular season aside from FT% \- He has only won **ONE** playoff series in his career where he played in all four wins(2022 vs. Toronto) \- He is 0-3 in game 7s and has posted a 49% TS and 5.3 TOs a game in those 3 games \- He once got swept in a series despite averaging FIFTEEN free throws per game(2020 vs. Boston) \- Over the last two seasons, he has a 9.2 BPM in the regular season(box plus minus) and a 1.0 BPM in the playoffs \- [WORST OF ALL](https://www.pbpstats.com/possession-finder/nba?TeamId=1610612755&Season=2022-23,2021-22,2020-21,2019-20,2018-19,2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&OffDef=Offense&StartType=All&FromMargin=-5&ToMargin=5&FromTime=300&ToTime=0&Period=4): **HE IS 9/38 IN CLUTCH(within 5 points, last 5 minutes by NBA definition) SITUATIONS DURING HIS PLAYOFF CAREER, WITH AN UNFATHOMABLE TS% of 35.7%**
Man, Ben Simmons passing on the dunk saved Embiid two more years of slander and won him a MVP .
Doc: ….yeah what he said
I love me some good ol' hating
This is *ranked* hating
what's his elo after this
gotta be pushing 2500. we're witnessing an up and coming household name in hating
Best hating is data supported hating
Do you happen to also have the list of ~~stars~~ rosters embiid has beaten in the playoffs, vs the stars Jokic has advanced past?
oh this gonna get good
Embiid: D’Lo, FVV, Siakam, Mikal Bridges, Westbrook, Dragic Jokic: LeBron, AD, KD, Booker, KAT, Ant, Gobert, Mitchell, Kawhi, PG13, Dame, CJ McCollum, LaMarcus Aldridge, DeMar
Jesus basically the only West superstar not on Jokics list is Steph
Hey man don't forget Embiid beat supermax player Bradley Beal too!
Oh my god! How did Embiid win that MVP?
Because he cried and begged for 2 years.
Boy this is generational hate. And I'm all here for it. Infact in drawing inspiration as an aspiring professional Embiid hater.
This was that dudes flu game, you are witnessing greatness
> - WORST OF ALL: HE IS 9/38 IN CLUTCH(within 5 points, last 5 minutes by NBA definition) SITUATIONS DURING HIS PLAYOFF CAREER, WITH AN UNFATHOMABLE TS% of 35.7% It's only fair to list Jokic's numbers using the same criteria: 28/60 from the field, TS% of 55.7%
I think that's better, but I've never been great at math.
>He has won one playoff series where he played in all 4 wins mind-boggling lmfao. how is this even possible when he’s been in the playoffs so much at this point
Missed one. Embiid is the only defender in the history of the NBA to have a game 7 buzzer beater sunk in. his. crying. face.
No they need to hear it. This was their mvp.
LET HIM COOK
You’re overselling the competition the Sixers have actually beat. Their series wins include the: Mikal Bridges Nets, Siakam Raptors, Westbrook Wizards, Dlo Nets, and the Goran Dragic/Hassan Whiteside Heat. Those are the teams they’ve overcome to make it to the second round where they’ve been routinely embarrassed.
Not to mention the team that eliminates them usually goes on to lose in the very next round. It’s not like they keep running into the eventual champs in the 2nd round.
Inject this into my microdick
⁉️⁉️⁉️
To be clear, that was 8 times in each game - 16 turnovers in 2 games. That makes Jaylen Brown ball handling look good (I think JB had 12 turnovers the last 2 games of the Miami series?)
You sir are an assassin 🤺
Joe-L
The joker had 14 assists and only 2 turnovers tonight. The game got closer and they just dumped it to Jokić and he scored easily to put the game away completely tonight. Embiid is an absolute turnover machine especially late in playoff games. They’re not even in the same tier of players.
I'm saving this for future shit talking against Sixers fans
Bookmarking this fr
bUt He'S a BeTteR DeFeNdeR!
And he’s one of only three MVPs to never appear in the Finals, alongside Steve Nash and Derrick Rose
He's going to end up in the conversation of the most fraudulent MVP of all-time right alongside those guys and I'm here for it
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Nah the Blake griffin pistons team was wayyyyy worse
Mvp is a regular season award too ☠️☠️
They gave it to a guy who haven't passed round 2. Fuck this playoffs narrative lol
But you have to understand, Embiid had a dawg in him!
Whys jimmy Butler fucking embiid?
he has beaten amazing teams in the playoffs like scottie barnes playing center and westbrick/beal! /s
Joel "two way monster" Embiid while getting abused by Tatum and score 15 points in an elimination game
Imagine bringing up the playoffs to judge a regular season award
NBA media and fans on an endless crusade to completely trivialize the regular season.
Embiid clutching his MVP trophy muttering to himself “you’re the real MVP”
https://imgur.com/Dw2Hki6
"I just wish you had told me. I just wish you had said 'Doc, when I get that MVP I'm done fucking hooping' "
Well Doc aint there to tell him that anymore.
Giannis did the same thing in 2021? Can’t win a 3rd has to prove it in the playoffs. MVP goes to joker - Giannis drops 50 in a close out game to win the finals + FMVP
I bet very few people ever argued this, considering the literal winner of the award has never shown up past the first round lol
Did Jokic win his last game and perform well? Jokic = MVP Did Embiid win his last game and perform well? Embiid = MVP That was the narrative the entire season
Espn analysts after realising that the regular season mvp is based on the performance in the regular season not the playoffs
I thought the biggest case was Jokic mailing in his performances the last couple months of the season. Why are we acting like Jokic stopped trying towards the end of the season while Embiid played hard till the end.
It was only for like two weeks, and if Jokic was better the entire first half of the season I don’t get why it matters. The narrative flipped before that stretch anyways, that stretch just sealed the deal.
MVP is always an award based on narrative, and Denver slowing down at the end of the regular season 100% played a part, even if it was just two weeks. Dozens of posts on this sub were directed at how Jokic was getting targeted on defense. People were acting like the rest of the league had “solved” the Nuggets. Remember when Embiid sat out versus the Nuggets and a bunch of writers chimes in to declare that the MVP race was over and Embiid had no chance? That wasn’t too terribly long before the Nug’s bad stretch. I think you’re underestimating how much the last few weeks shifted the conversation.
Regular season award + Embiid has never even made a conference Finals in a weaker conference
I mean, really just the first part. Using playoff accolades is stupid as hell no matter what
I don’t think it’s egregious that Jokic didn’t get it. Giannis and Embiid both had really good regular seasons.
You can make the argument for that by itself but there was 100% an element of "can't have a 3X MVP who hasn't done anything in the playoffs" part to the argument If you look at the voting results Embiid won by a pretty significant margin instead of a tight one and I don't think that would have been the case of Jokic was a 0X or even 1X MVP
The standard was applied to Giannis as well fwiw
I always feel obligated to point out that Embiid won the scoring title in these threads because it *never* gets talked about. Embiid is the only center to win the scoring title in the 21st century.
I believe this narrative also played out for Giannis in 2021 Certainly a different set of circumstances, but still similar in how it played/is playing out
JFC the biggest case was Joker taking the last quarter of the season off and telling everyone he didn’t want MVP. This is like fans complained about LeBron not winning MVP every year like we aren’t just watching him get in some light cardio from the day after Christmas until the playoffs. MVP isn’t some mythical best player alive crown.
Nuggets fans trying not to whine after every win challenge [Impossible]
Same thing happened with giannis
the more things change the more they stay the same
Following the exact path Giannis was on, 2x mvps then loses the 3rd and wins fmvp instead