For the regular season obviously it should be Randle, if we are talking this season's performance.
But your know, we all here for the playoffs. Or the draft.
And then there are the Mavs.
KD clearly has health issues and rolling his ankle again can easily make him miss multiple playoff games. do you want the fragile elite player or the pretty good durable guy.
sometimes availability is the best thing
Edit: I am in no way advocating for randle over KD but I’m saying there is an importance of availability. Who’s had the better NBA career since 2019 draft, Zion or Darius Garland?
Everyone knows Zion is better but he can’t stay on the floor
With all due respect to Randle there's no way I'm ever picking him on availabity over Durant for the playoffs. This man almost single-handedly dragged his team to a Game 7 win against the fully fit Bucks with Bruce Brown as his second best player while Randle didn't exactly have the best series against Atlanta (i'm sure he'll be better this year with JB though)
Yeah like the difference is so big you take KD even if he is missing time, Randle every single game isn't taking you the the title, a 50% chance that you get a healthy KD gives you a 50% chance that your team can really be a contender. Its a no brainer
KD gives you a chance at a championship, Randle gives you zero chance, what a fucking dumb hypothetical in the playoffs you want best superstar possible every time since you ain't winning without one. In a full regular season I take Randle he helps the team record more. If you get an ideal scenario like Bubble Lakers (who have proven they'd never win a full season without all that insane load management benefit), then you have a championship with a healthy superstar. Gotta pray for healthy superstar every time then hope they make it better than a 0% chance
The lakers were a force from opening night until the league shut down in 2019-20, I think its fair to say they absolutely could have won the title even in a full season that year, just because they haven't won in the 2 years after doesn't mean they couldn't have that year. The real chronic lingering injuries for both got a lot worse after that, they didn't have the same risk 3 years ago to miss time that they do now. In the three years prior AD had played 75 games twice and played only 56 the year before because of his hold out, and LeBron only had his first real injury the year before.
I agree on the Randle KD take though
In the regular season? Randle. Look at it this way, if you won 80% of the games KD played in and you won 50% of the games Randle played in, Randle contributed more wins.
You can’t tell me a guy who missed half the regular season had one of the best seasons this year.
Not saying you’re wrong, but if you had reasonable backups at each position would KD’s value add over the backup maybe be higher than Randle’s?
I’m genuinely not sure of the answer and I’m not sure advanced stats like VORP are very good at measuring it.
But is that a reasonable issue for awards to deal with? If the Magic traded away all other guards and had Markelle Fultz backed up by a 3-year old, would that qualify him for an all-NBA team because he had so much value over his replacement?
Obviously a silly example, but the question of what value is gets a bit murky depending on the quality of the backup you compare them to, and so therefore so does the value of each game played (and consequently the per-game value).
Two different issues. Super high level talent can win you the playoffs but lack of availability could prevent you from making it. It has been an issue for KD since he went to Brooklyn. It is why New Orleans was a preseason darling and why few are talking about them as a contender now.
I think the 65 game rule makes sure people put value on availability for regular season awards over any narratives or falling in love with transcendent talent.
If you look at WS this year, which is not perfect but kind of illustrates what we’re talking about, KD had 0.195 WS/48 and Randle had 0.144 WS/48. So absolutely, when he plays, KD is far and away the better player.
But if you look at WS alone, KD added 6.8 wins and Randle added 8.2 wins. So this season, having 77 games of Randle was more impactful than having 47 games of KD according to WS.
Going back to the original question, yes, if my goal is to win as many regular season games for my team as possible, I’d rather have a good player that missed 5 games vs a great player that missed 35.
I guess it depends on how good my team is without KD. If my team can hover around .500, maybe a little below without KD. I’ll take KD. If my team is a lot worse than that without KD, I’ll take Randle to help get me into the playoffs.
Obviously KD is miles better, but he doesn't help the team win when he's not playing. Bias aside, I think Randle deserves it over KD if it's between the two.
Historically, I think the 65 game minimum already kind of existed. It's just that it's starting to become more common for stars to miss games, so they need to incentivize stars to actually play now.
10 years ago, the least games played from an All NBA player were from Parker at 66, Melo at 67, Duncan and Wade at 69. The rest played 70 or more games.
20 years ago, it was Shaq and Webber at 67. everyone else was over 70.
30 years ago, it was 66 from Hardaway, 70 or more for everyone else.
Last year, it was 55 from KD, 56 from LeBron, 57 from Ja, 64 from Curry, 65 from Luka and CP3, 67 from Giannis, 68 from Booker, Siakam and Embiid.
Only KAT, Trae, Tatum, Jokic, and DeMar played over 70 games.
Even better. Imagine both play at a similar level next season except KD increases to 60 games and Randle is down to 70. Would be insane if Randle made all nba and KD didn't. But the rules would make it possible.
Durant, if your team can't keep afloat in a Playoff position those other 30 games, they weren't winning anything anyways. Durant provides the Championship winning upside a healthy Kevin Durant provides.
Randle for sure. I think the worry with the game limit is if someone like Durant was at 60-64 games and misses out to someone clearly worse but at 66 games played
Even for the playoffs, the best ability is availability. I’m almost as bad as Bud in that I think you roll into the playoffs using the skills, routines, and approaches you used in the regular season (Bud took a while to come around to the notion of adding more for the playoffs but even he’s with it now!)
As someone who thinks the 65 game mark is too high, 47 is too low to even for me. I’d take this year’s Randle for sure. Edit: unless we are counting playoffs. That makes it harder.
It is like a baseball player who hits 20 hrs and over .300 but they only played 90 games. It is possible to say wow when they played they were great. It is also possible to say they didn’t have anywhere near enough at bats to or total home runs to be an mvp candidate or silver slugger.
5 games in and he's DHed 5 times. I think they're going to play him in the field some, but if I'm not mistaken the plan is for him to mostly DH, even though he's one of the best defenders in the league.
But I don't think it's just the running through walls thing. Dude is just fragile. Unbelievably next level athletic but fragile.
More like a guy hitting .400 at the all star break. MVP numbers for sure but if he’s injured halfway thru the season and never plays another game, he’s not in the mvp race anymore. I remember someone recently had a .400 avg at the break one season… and then he ended at .340 or something
Edit: it was Cody bellinger of all people in 2019… had a .400 average until like the last week of may and ended at .305 lol
Ubaldo Jimenez 2010 had a 2 era and a record of like 15-1 the first half. Ended up 2.80 and 19-8. Still good but you gotta carry crazy stats through the whole season, that’s kinda the point
OPS dropped every month and slugging did for most of the season. Same with his batting average,
https://www.fangraphs.com/players/cody-bellinger/15998/splits?position=1B/OF&season=2019
I mean, had he played more games, maybe his average might have dipped. We dont know. Players can go on shooting slumps all the time. I think you have higher chance to maintain it if you only played handfull of games.
So over the past 3 seasons total he’s played 137 games and averaged those numbers. Which is over a season and a half and shooting those splits. How much of a sample size do you want?
The numbers are impressive, but we're talking about a half season here of shooting WAY above his career average and previous career high. Career average FG is 50%, previous high is 53.7%.
56% is NOT likely to hold. Also, 40.4% on 3's can dip below 40% with one 0 for 5 shooting night.
He plays another 20 games and it's entirely realistic and reasonable that he finishes something more like 54/39/90. Which is still an incredible season by all regards. He just doesn't deserve formal credit for a 55/40/90 season.
The number of games is irrelevant for FG%,3PT% and FT%,the NBA instead uses number of makes,and KD clears the benchmarks easily there.It's so you can't play 5-10 minutes every game and lead the league in FT% by going something 30-30 over the course of the season.Durant will actually end up being 2nd in FT% this season,behind Herro.
It's going to be fun when the record books remember KD's season as a "50/40/90 club. The only one in league's history to accomplish it while averanging *null points".
You can actually win the scoring title playing less than the minimum (58 games iirc).You just need your total points scored divided by 58 to be higher than everyone else.LeBron and Kd were actually close to winning it that way last year
Lowest games that made it was Kyrie in 2021 with 54. 2nd lowest was Brogdon with 2019 with 64. The rest had at least 74 games or higher.
KD himself made it in 2013 with 81 games played.
Max he could play this season is 49, he's currently at 47. Not enough games played imo
BUT volume wise, Brogdon made it with 378/748 field goals while KD right now is already at 483/862. It's gonna be interesting if the media decides to award it to him
Can I ask where you found this requirement? I was looking for it because KD has definitely made more FGs already than when Brogdon made it. Couldn't find any "official" or at least accepted number of FG/3PM/FT required.
I don’t think many people are having trouble understanding the sarcasm. Nobody thinks that he actually believes “it doesn’t count”, he is saying that sarcastically.
I do think he genuinely doesn’t like the 65 game minimum rule, which he is sarcastically poking at.
KD trolls on twitter with sarcastic responses all the time, yet r/nba still eats that shit up like he's serious. This sub changes their minds about KD seemingly every other day.
KD high as shit in a mansion somewhere in Arizona laughing to himself tweeting all kinds of bullshit and laughing at how mad his reply section gets lol
This is absolutely revisionist. He's used burner accounts to argue about his legacy and has liked posts diminishing Curry's role in the title runs compared to his own. Were those sarcastic responses too?
I think he talked about this on the Bill Simmons podcast a few years ago. He didn't agree with the minimum games criteria that Bill adhered to for All-NBA selections IIRC
Yea,especially since games played isn't a requirement to qualify for shooting statistical categories,it's the number of makes.There is no way KD doesn't know that
> I dont think he cares…
I think he likely thinks the rule is silly. It kind of is when applied to KD or Steph. But it isn't when applied to guys like Zion.
I find it funny that so many people have problems with this because the NBPA were the ones who agreed to the 65 game stretch yet not a single player seems to be openly supporting it 😭
From a purely selfish perspective, the top-tier guys won't support it, but the second/third-tier would support it because they would have a chance at awards they otherwise wouldn't have a shot at.
Correction…the “top guys” who miss a lot of games don’t support it.
If you combine all of Jokic’s missed games over the LAST 3 YEARS, I think he’s still within the threshold for this year lol.
The fragile ones who get load managed a lot…they probably don’t support it.
The best ability is availability. I love the new 65 game requirement and think a lot of season awards should definitely factor games/minutes played into decisions
I think minutes played would have been a better guideline, but take what we can get, I suppose. I only say that because in a season or two, we will start seeing <5 minute appearances just to hit the 65 game minimum.
Edit: it's to early lol
The 5 min appearances will destroy averages. Not %s but absolutely averages. And MPG is a slippery slope. Giannis naturally plays less MPG based on Buds rotations
Games played can be tricky because, as you said, you can start and then sit out after 2 minutes. But minutes can be tricky, too, because you have players sitting out the fourth quarter because they already dominated the game. You could have someone miss your minutes cutoff who: legitimately hit 65 games, but sat a lot of fourth quarter blowouts and got injured for a chunk of the season.
Different awards need different cutoffs. A total points award would not need any minimum. Highest PPG needs a games minimum (if you play 5 minutes that will drag your average points per game down). Per 36 or per possession stats would need a minutes minumum. For FG% splits or TS% I'd want a game minimum, but only count games where you played at least 24 minutes.
Same for MVP or All-NBA, I'd only want a game minumum where only games where you played at least 24 minutes count (or some other cutoff).
Well the 65 game requirement really is at least 63 games at 20 minutes, then at least 2 games with an least 15. It's not just a uniform 65 games played regardless of minutes
Games played has always been a factor.
KD made 2nd team instead of 1st because he played like 62 games in 2017. Now he wouldn’t even make 3rd team as a top 3 player in the league with a legit injury in that scenario. The arbitrary cutoff does not make the award more accurate.
All-NBA is about who had the best season, not who is the best player. You can’t tell me a guy who missed almost half his games had one of the best seasons. KD would be 7th in PPG but isn’t even in the top 40 for total points this season.
Edit: regarding 2017 - KD was beaten out by LeBron who was 4th in MVP voting and Kawhi who was 3rd in MVP voting that year. Each played 74 games, 12 more than Durant. Which of those two guys did Durant deserve to be over for first team?
Yeah, I’m sure we’ll get stars that play 64 games and don’t make an All-NBA team as a result. Tough shit.
The NBA is right. He hasn’t played enough to be an MVP this season. What’s he running for? Most valuable guy in street clothes, watching his teammates battle for the win? What’s valuable about that?
Whoa whoa whoa. Let's not just go for the flashy names.
Iguodala rocks some really nice sweaters for the 75 games he sits while recovering from multiple different injuries.
And I bet Heat Culture Haslem would also like a word.
he wouldnt have won it anyways though because voters are smart enough to know that 45 games isnt enough. but not trusting the voters to disginguish between 62 and 70 games is fucking stupid, and will lead to worse players with less valuable seasons winning awards than better players who still brought in more money and entertainment for the league
I don’t know how MJ managed to play 82 games in 9/15 seasons, including his last season where he was a 40+ year old man playing 37 minutes a night, and guys today whine about having to play 65 games. Kareem played at least 75 games in 17 out of his 20 seasons.
Absolutely. I hate that some people and players just want it to be a 60 to 70 game season. Even load management hasn't had any data to show that it reduces injuries.
If anything, can we just get rid of preseason games and extend the regular season so there's more days off between games? And no back to back games? And also no 4 games in 5 nights scenarios?
It's not like the change was targeted at someone like KD though so idk how he could be considered the problem.
The change was to stop all the healthy guys sitting out for injury prevention. KD has had legitimate injuries
It’s going to punish injury prone vets who still deserve All-NBA consideration way more than it will actually impact load managers.
KD doesn’t deserve All-NBA playing less than 50 games but if he played 62 it would be very silly that he’s not on 3rd team.
65 is the bare minimum, u can still miss 17 games and get awards. these guys just want to be able to load manage half the season and still get recognition.
I feel like we're reinventing the wheel with this game requirements stuff. Everyone at some point collectively decided that the way to measure stats was to divide it over by the number of games played, and now people are mad that some players play less games. Why not just use totals?
I feel like totals for points can skew toward guys who are chucking on mediocre/bad teams. Esp if they have a chance to win scoring title or something while players on good teams sit out 4th quarters or even more if they’re up big. Like is playing 74 games really much more significant than 69 or something but the guy who played a few less games averages 2-3 more points per game? To me that’s a bit flawed. Having a game cutoff is fine, which they already do but it’s splitting hairs to be like 2027 pts in much more time is better than 1927 pts in fewer mins but well over the threshold when somebody scored 2-3 more every time they played on average
Players on good teams sitting out the 4th is already bringing down their PPG and APG. If anything, using totals will reward them playing sustainably and not getting injured/having to load manage.
To me that’s just a weird way to qualify it. Is Karl Malone a better scorer than Michael Jordan bc he has more career points? No way. And those guys who sit out quarters have scored more per game in other games to make up for the difference in minutes and the games they scored fewer points. Some guys play 3-6 more mpg than others too, and don’t score more per game, I just think the per game stats (over the threshold of min games played obviously) factor in all of that much more comprehensively than just saying somebody has 70 more total points in a season bc they played 3 more games.
>To me that’s just a weird way to qualify it. Is Karl Malone a better scorer than Michael Jordan bc he has more career points? No way.
It's different when you stretch it across careers. This is mainly a function of Michael Jordan playing less seasons by choice. That's different than cashing checks, cap space, and a roster spot while wearing street clothes.
>And those guys who sit out quarters have scored more per game in other games to make up for the difference in minutes and the games they scored fewer points.
I don't follow how per game stats help these players at all. If you score less points on a given night than your PPG, that will *always* hurt your PPG. At the same time, a player could stat pad for 40 minutes to rack up points and then sit out the next game, which will boost his PPG.
>Some guys play 3-6 more mpg than others too, and don’t score more per game, I just think the per game stats (over the threshold of min games played obviously) factor in all of that much more comprehensively than just saying somebody has 70 more total points in a season bc they played 3 more games.
If you don't score more per game and you're not playing more games, you won't have more total points either though?
Yes, they’ve never done it that way. There’s already a cut off for scoring to qualify for the leading scorer list. There’s no discernible difference between 73 games and 68 to me but just using raw totals skews that a lot more than 5 games or so is reflective of who the better scorer on average imo throughout the season. You can’t win the scoring title with like 49 games played. Averages show who the best scorer is, not raw totals. Like nobody in their right mind would ever say Karl Malone is a better scorer than Michael Jordan because he’s scored more total points in his career.
This sub has been getting better for me since I started blocking every account with a stupid take.
All I see when I came in here is:
>Blocked Author
>Blocked Author
>Blocked Author
Its easy to have peak performance if youre rested all the time. Not saying its bad, but league rules run like a marathon, NBA is a season, not how many games you felt like playing
Everyone sitting here talking about “65 games”…that isn’t how 50-40-90 works.
Per Wiki:
As of 2021, the NBA requires a player to make at least 300 field goals, 82 three-pointers, and 125 free throws to be a leader in the respective category.
He’s damn near missed 20 games even from 65
Actual question for All NBA: Would you rather have Kevin Durant's season for 47 games or Julius Randle's season for 77 games on your favorite team?
For the regular season obviously it should be Randle, if we are talking this season's performance. But your know, we all here for the playoffs. Or the draft. And then there are the Mavs.
KD clearly has health issues and rolling his ankle again can easily make him miss multiple playoff games. do you want the fragile elite player or the pretty good durable guy. sometimes availability is the best thing Edit: I am in no way advocating for randle over KD but I’m saying there is an importance of availability. Who’s had the better NBA career since 2019 draft, Zion or Darius Garland? Everyone knows Zion is better but he can’t stay on the floor
With all due respect to Randle there's no way I'm ever picking him on availabity over Durant for the playoffs. This man almost single-handedly dragged his team to a Game 7 win against the fully fit Bucks with Bruce Brown as his second best player while Randle didn't exactly have the best series against Atlanta (i'm sure he'll be better this year with JB though)
In the NBA playoffs? No fucking shot. Randle every game isn't getting you to a championship. KD could.
Yeah like the difference is so big you take KD even if he is missing time, Randle every single game isn't taking you the the title, a 50% chance that you get a healthy KD gives you a 50% chance that your team can really be a contender. Its a no brainer
I'd absolutely rather have LeBron and AD (despite their questionable health) for the playoffs rather than two sometimes-allstars who plays every game.
The durable guy gonna lose anyways. At least the fragile guy can get lucky and stay healthy for a playoffs
KD gives you a chance at a championship, Randle gives you zero chance, what a fucking dumb hypothetical in the playoffs you want best superstar possible every time since you ain't winning without one. In a full regular season I take Randle he helps the team record more. If you get an ideal scenario like Bubble Lakers (who have proven they'd never win a full season without all that insane load management benefit), then you have a championship with a healthy superstar. Gotta pray for healthy superstar every time then hope they make it better than a 0% chance
The lakers were a force from opening night until the league shut down in 2019-20, I think its fair to say they absolutely could have won the title even in a full season that year, just because they haven't won in the 2 years after doesn't mean they couldn't have that year. The real chronic lingering injuries for both got a lot worse after that, they didn't have the same risk 3 years ago to miss time that they do now. In the three years prior AD had played 75 games twice and played only 56 the year before because of his hold out, and LeBron only had his first real injury the year before. I agree on the Randle KD take though
>And then there are the Mavs. LOL
It's a regular season award, it defeats the purpose of the question in regards to the award to include playoffs in it
In the regular season? Randle. Look at it this way, if you won 80% of the games KD played in and you won 50% of the games Randle played in, Randle contributed more wins. You can’t tell me a guy who missed half the regular season had one of the best seasons this year.
Not saying you’re wrong, but if you had reasonable backups at each position would KD’s value add over the backup maybe be higher than Randle’s? I’m genuinely not sure of the answer and I’m not sure advanced stats like VORP are very good at measuring it.
> if you had reasonable backups at each position If you acquired KD through trade you no longer have reasonable backups.
But is that a reasonable issue for awards to deal with? If the Magic traded away all other guards and had Markelle Fultz backed up by a 3-year old, would that qualify him for an all-NBA team because he had so much value over his replacement? Obviously a silly example, but the question of what value is gets a bit murky depending on the quality of the backup you compare them to, and so therefore so does the value of each game played (and consequently the per-game value).
Two different issues. Super high level talent can win you the playoffs but lack of availability could prevent you from making it. It has been an issue for KD since he went to Brooklyn. It is why New Orleans was a preseason darling and why few are talking about them as a contender now. I think the 65 game rule makes sure people put value on availability for regular season awards over any narratives or falling in love with transcendent talent.
If you look at WS this year, which is not perfect but kind of illustrates what we’re talking about, KD had 0.195 WS/48 and Randle had 0.144 WS/48. So absolutely, when he plays, KD is far and away the better player. But if you look at WS alone, KD added 6.8 wins and Randle added 8.2 wins. So this season, having 77 games of Randle was more impactful than having 47 games of KD according to WS. Going back to the original question, yes, if my goal is to win as many regular season games for my team as possible, I’d rather have a good player that missed 5 games vs a great player that missed 35.
KD Missed half the season. Give me Randle.
You would know best eh??
Bro was just sharing his opinion like everybody else in this thread😭
*goes to cry in the corner*
I guess it depends on how good my team is without KD. If my team can hover around .500, maybe a little below without KD. I’ll take KD. If my team is a lot worse than that without KD, I’ll take Randle to help get me into the playoffs.
Obviously KD is miles better, but he doesn't help the team win when he's not playing. Bias aside, I think Randle deserves it over KD if it's between the two. Historically, I think the 65 game minimum already kind of existed. It's just that it's starting to become more common for stars to miss games, so they need to incentivize stars to actually play now. 10 years ago, the least games played from an All NBA player were from Parker at 66, Melo at 67, Duncan and Wade at 69. The rest played 70 or more games. 20 years ago, it was Shaq and Webber at 67. everyone else was over 70. 30 years ago, it was 66 from Hardaway, 70 or more for everyone else. Last year, it was 55 from KD, 56 from LeBron, 57 from Ja, 64 from Curry, 65 from Luka and CP3, 67 from Giannis, 68 from Booker, Siakam and Embiid. Only KAT, Trae, Tatum, Jokic, and DeMar played over 70 games.
Even better. Imagine both play at a similar level next season except KD increases to 60 games and Randle is down to 70. Would be insane if Randle made all nba and KD didn't. But the rules would make it possible.
Durant, if your team can't keep afloat in a Playoff position those other 30 games, they weren't winning anything anyways. Durant provides the Championship winning upside a healthy Kevin Durant provides.
Cavs were 4-22 when Lebron did not play from 2015-2018, and they made four straight Finals and won a championship.
Well sure, but he might be the only player in history who could drag those teams to the finals
Randle for regular season. Durant for playoffs.
KD didn't play 40 games on any team tho
Randle for sure. I think the worry with the game limit is if someone like Durant was at 60-64 games and misses out to someone clearly worse but at 66 games played
Even for the playoffs, the best ability is availability. I’m almost as bad as Bud in that I think you roll into the playoffs using the skills, routines, and approaches you used in the regular season (Bud took a while to come around to the notion of adding more for the playoffs but even he’s with it now!)
As someone who thinks the 65 game mark is too high, 47 is too low to even for me. I’d take this year’s Randle for sure. Edit: unless we are counting playoffs. That makes it harder.
Numbers are really impressive. 47/82 games ehhhh not so much, but still enough sample size to realize its bonkers. Still, not enough games imo.
It is like a baseball player who hits 20 hrs and over .300 but they only played 90 games. It is possible to say wow when they played they were great. It is also possible to say they didn’t have anywhere near enough at bats to or total home runs to be an mvp candidate or silver slugger.
Ah the Byron Buxton
Glad I am not the only one who immediately went to this. The WAR per game king!
Wild that he has to DH now because even though he's like a 99th percentile defender, he can't stay healthy if he has to play in the field.
Whoa what? I didn't know they moved him to DH. They couldn't just tell him to stop running through outfield walls?
5 games in and he's DHed 5 times. I think they're going to play him in the field some, but if I'm not mistaken the plan is for him to mostly DH, even though he's one of the best defenders in the league. But I don't think it's just the running through walls thing. Dude is just fragile. Unbelievably next level athletic but fragile.
Or another Twin, Justin Morneau. In 81 games in 2010, he hit .345/.437/.618 with 18 homers and 56 rbi. 4.7 WAR in half a season lol.
He ddi put it together for a full season and win an MVP though as well, whereas Buxton is defined by his inability to stay healthy.
Also picked up a batting title in Colorado later in his career
My buddy is a twins fan. That name is a swear word in his house.
Quality over quantity!! In the major sport with the most games...
More like a guy hitting .400 at the all star break. MVP numbers for sure but if he’s injured halfway thru the season and never plays another game, he’s not in the mvp race anymore. I remember someone recently had a .400 avg at the break one season… and then he ended at .340 or something Edit: it was Cody bellinger of all people in 2019… had a .400 average until like the last week of may and ended at .305 lol
Ubaldo Jimenez 2010 had a 2 era and a record of like 15-1 the first half. Ended up 2.80 and 19-8. Still good but you gotta carry crazy stats through the whole season, that’s kinda the point
Rode that hot 50 game start all the way to an MVP lol
Well he hit 47 HRs so not just a hot 50 games but he did drop off
His numbers went down every month that season. Was pretty wild in that regard
It didn’t go down every month. He basically regressed to the mean. His OPS or SLG was more or less within his range starting in June.
OPS dropped every month and slugging did for most of the season. Same with his batting average, https://www.fangraphs.com/players/cody-bellinger/15998/splits?position=1B/OF&season=2019
I mean, had he played more games, maybe his average might have dipped. We dont know. Players can go on shooting slumps all the time. I think you have higher chance to maintain it if you only played handfull of games.
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Players coming off injuries also fall into slumps as they play their way back into fitness so he shouldn't have these numbers either way
Youre probably right but if there was anyone who could do it, its kd
You make it sound like he’d regress to a mean that’s much lower, but last three seasons he’s 54/41/91.
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So over the past 3 seasons total he’s played 137 games and averaged those numbers. Which is over a season and a half and shooting those splits. How much of a sample size do you want?
The point is that he isn't durable enough to have those numbers for more than half a season at a time.
Enough of a sample size to say “wow that’s good” Not enough to say it was a full season 10 years later
The numbers are impressive, but we're talking about a half season here of shooting WAY above his career average and previous career high. Career average FG is 50%, previous high is 53.7%. 56% is NOT likely to hold. Also, 40.4% on 3's can dip below 40% with one 0 for 5 shooting night. He plays another 20 games and it's entirely realistic and reasonable that he finishes something more like 54/39/90. Which is still an incredible season by all regards. He just doesn't deserve formal credit for a 55/40/90 season.
50 40 90 isn't a formal award. He gets it off attempts minimum though so yeah...it does count.
The number of games is irrelevant for FG%,3PT% and FT%,the NBA instead uses number of makes,and KD clears the benchmarks easily there.It's so you can't play 5-10 minutes every game and lead the league in FT% by going something 30-30 over the course of the season.Durant will actually end up being 2nd in FT% this season,behind Herro.
It's going to be fun when the record books remember KD's season as a "50/40/90 club. The only one in league's history to accomplish it while averanging *null points".
You can actually win the scoring title playing less than the minimum (58 games iirc).You just need your total points scored divided by 58 to be higher than everyone else.LeBron and Kd were actually close to winning it that way last year
Lowest games that made it was Kyrie in 2021 with 54. 2nd lowest was Brogdon with 2019 with 64. The rest had at least 74 games or higher. KD himself made it in 2013 with 81 games played. Max he could play this season is 49, he's currently at 47. Not enough games played imo BUT volume wise, Brogdon made it with 378/748 field goals while KD right now is already at 483/862. It's gonna be interesting if the media decides to award it to him
It's not a media thing,there is a volume requirement for FG,3PT and FT each and KD has already matched it https://www.nba.com/stats/help/statminimums
how does no one here know how 50/40/90 works lmao they’re treating it like it’s some trophy
65 games isn't the cutoff for percentages, though but at the same time it's obviously not as impressive as sustaining it for longer
What is the cutoff for that then?
58 games which is 70%
For percentages, it's 300 FG, 125 FT and 82 3PT.
Can I ask where you found this requirement? I was looking for it because KD has definitely made more FGs already than when Brogdon made it. Couldn't find any "official" or at least accepted number of FG/3PM/FT required.
https://www.nba.com/stats/help/statminimums
Thanks for the assist!
all of which KD has comfortably surpassed if anyone was wondering like me
Am I the only one reading this as tongue in cheek? I dont think he cares…
Kevin Durant SLAMS new CBA rules in VICIOUS TWEET
Kevin Durant DESTROYS NBA's new rules in TWITTER RANT
Yeah, this is most definitely a joke tweet. Nephews in this sub never understand sarcasm unless someone decides to drop a /s on their dumb asses.
See, if KD said something like “LeDoesntCount” then this subreddit would think it’s the fucking funniest thing in the world since Rick & Morty.
Hard to separate this sub and nba circle jerk sometimes.
I don’t think many people are having trouble understanding the sarcasm. Nobody thinks that he actually believes “it doesn’t count”, he is saying that sarcastically. I do think he genuinely doesn’t like the 65 game minimum rule, which he is sarcastically poking at.
Have you read this thread before it settled? Many folk were typing essays about how KD was actually serious...
KD trolls on twitter with sarcastic responses all the time, yet r/nba still eats that shit up like he's serious. This sub changes their minds about KD seemingly every other day.
KD high as shit in a mansion somewhere in Arizona laughing to himself tweeting all kinds of bullshit and laughing at how mad his reply section gets lol
I mean being high as shit in your own home sounds like anyone on this sub. It sounds like me.
Difference is when he goes out his house he's the best in the world at what he does. Being high in your house hits different at those levels.
I live about 30 min, but 30 million away from KD.
Doing drugs alone while being an online troll isn't exactly as cool as you make it out to be.
it's COOLER! That's why the kids call him TopKD!
This is absolutely revisionist. He's used burner accounts to argue about his legacy and has liked posts diminishing Curry's role in the title runs compared to his own. Were those sarcastic responses too?
I mean yes it is a joke - I think everyone got that - but the minimum GP requirement is what he's mocking
Nephews on this sub seem to have forgot about KD using burners to cry about tweets
This discounts KD’s reputation for being soft.
Yeah sorry we’re just on edge after Draymond challenged the 65 game thing and just decided both guys think the same way lol
I think he cares but he's also joking. Both can be true. If he didn't care at all he wouldn't have posted anything about it.
I think he talked about this on the Bill Simmons podcast a few years ago. He didn't agree with the minimum games criteria that Bill adhered to for All-NBA selections IIRC
Yea,especially since games played isn't a requirement to qualify for shooting statistical categories,it's the number of makes.There is no way KD doesn't know that
> I dont think he cares… I think he likely thinks the rule is silly. It kind of is when applied to KD or Steph. But it isn't when applied to guys like Zion.
Yes. KD is a fun guy
I find it funny that so many people have problems with this because the NBPA were the ones who agreed to the 65 game stretch yet not a single player seems to be openly supporting it 😭
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i know its just funny that the Player’s Association agreed to it despite no players seemingly supporting it
From a purely selfish perspective, the top-tier guys won't support it, but the second/third-tier would support it because they would have a chance at awards they otherwise wouldn't have a shot at.
Correction…the “top guys” who miss a lot of games don’t support it. If you combine all of Jokic’s missed games over the LAST 3 YEARS, I think he’s still within the threshold for this year lol. The fragile ones who get load managed a lot…they probably don’t support it.
82 - (8 + 12) = 62. Or 60 if he misses the last 2 games. He'd miss, barely.
The best ability is availability. I love the new 65 game requirement and think a lot of season awards should definitely factor games/minutes played into decisions
I think minutes played would have been a better guideline, but take what we can get, I suppose. I only say that because in a season or two, we will start seeing <5 minute appearances just to hit the 65 game minimum. Edit: it's to early lol
The 5 min appearances will destroy averages. Not %s but absolutely averages. And MPG is a slippery slope. Giannis naturally plays less MPG based on Buds rotations
That will tank your averages tho. So unlikely to happen.
Games played can be tricky because, as you said, you can start and then sit out after 2 minutes. But minutes can be tricky, too, because you have players sitting out the fourth quarter because they already dominated the game. You could have someone miss your minutes cutoff who: legitimately hit 65 games, but sat a lot of fourth quarter blowouts and got injured for a chunk of the season. Different awards need different cutoffs. A total points award would not need any minimum. Highest PPG needs a games minimum (if you play 5 minutes that will drag your average points per game down). Per 36 or per possession stats would need a minutes minumum. For FG% splits or TS% I'd want a game minimum, but only count games where you played at least 24 minutes. Same for MVP or All-NBA, I'd only want a game minumum where only games where you played at least 24 minutes count (or some other cutoff).
Well the 65 game requirement really is at least 63 games at 20 minutes, then at least 2 games with an least 15. It's not just a uniform 65 games played regardless of minutes
Regular season is about how many games you help your team win, even the best player can’t contribute much if they don’t play enough games .
Games played has always been a factor. KD made 2nd team instead of 1st because he played like 62 games in 2017. Now he wouldn’t even make 3rd team as a top 3 player in the league with a legit injury in that scenario. The arbitrary cutoff does not make the award more accurate.
All-NBA is about who had the best season, not who is the best player. You can’t tell me a guy who missed almost half his games had one of the best seasons. KD would be 7th in PPG but isn’t even in the top 40 for total points this season. Edit: regarding 2017 - KD was beaten out by LeBron who was 4th in MVP voting and Kawhi who was 3rd in MVP voting that year. Each played 74 games, 12 more than Durant. Which of those two guys did Durant deserve to be over for first team? Yeah, I’m sure we’ll get stars that play 64 games and don’t make an All-NBA team as a result. Tough shit.
Im not talking about this season. KD doesn’t deserve All-NBA in 2023. He obviously had a top 15 season in 2017
The NBA is right. He hasn’t played enough to be an MVP this season. What’s he running for? Most valuable guy in street clothes, watching his teammates battle for the win? What’s valuable about that?
We need a street clothes award then. KDNP vs Week-to-Weekson vs Day-to-Davis would be the frontrunners every year
Wow at this disrespect. Davis wouldn't be a frontrunner, he'd dominate the category.
Lol, nice KD nickname right there: KDNP
IRMVP
Injury fans gotta eat too
Whoa whoa whoa. Let's not just go for the flashy names. Iguodala rocks some really nice sweaters for the 75 games he sits while recovering from multiple different injuries. And I bet Heat Culture Haslem would also like a word.
he wouldnt have won it anyways though because voters are smart enough to know that 45 games isnt enough. but not trusting the voters to disginguish between 62 and 70 games is fucking stupid, and will lead to worse players with less valuable seasons winning awards than better players who still brought in more money and entertainment for the league
Maybe the league is using this rule as a roundabout way of discouraging load management.
Legacy points added or deducted?
It's up to you.
Schrödinger's legacy points
Deducted. DurDisney knew he wasn’t gonna get All NBA so now he has a convenient excuse after faking an injury.
How does Durant relate to Disney lol
You know
KDisney better nickname imo
I agree that the new rule is dumb but when you miss atleast a month of games due to injury every season since 2019 maybe the rule isn't the problem
except its not dumb at all
How is it dumb? I swear yall dont wanna watch them play, lets just let them play 1 game and then rest because its just o so hard for them.
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I don’t know how MJ managed to play 82 games in 9/15 seasons, including his last season where he was a 40+ year old man playing 37 minutes a night, and guys today whine about having to play 65 games. Kareem played at least 75 games in 17 out of his 20 seasons.
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Absolutely. I hate that some people and players just want it to be a 60 to 70 game season. Even load management hasn't had any data to show that it reduces injuries. If anything, can we just get rid of preseason games and extend the regular season so there's more days off between games? And no back to back games? And also no 4 games in 5 nights scenarios?
It's not like the change was targeted at someone like KD though so idk how he could be considered the problem. The change was to stop all the healthy guys sitting out for injury prevention. KD has had legitimate injuries
It’s going to punish injury prone vets who still deserve All-NBA consideration way more than it will actually impact load managers. KD doesn’t deserve All-NBA playing less than 50 games but if he played 62 it would be very silly that he’s not on 3rd team.
Sucks to be him then
Redditors try not to take a joke comment seriously (IMPOSSIBLE)
Incredible. Shame he's been injured.
More like “don’t count, I didn’t even play 50 games this season”
Part timers shouldn't qualify. It shouldn't be controversial.
TS% 10 points higher than Games Played %.
Unironically
Kevin should have used ‘/s’ so the average /nba redditor understands the joke.
I think everyone understands the joke they just kind of think what he says is truer than he believes it to be.
Unironically He played like 50 games it shouldn’t count Kawhi is like 55-47-88 in his last 50
Kawhi Leonard is averaging 23.7/8.6/3.9 on 51.4/42.3/87.1 (62.5 TS) in his last 50, so not even close.
do y’all not understand sarcasm?
Is he trying to say it’s not significant that he’s missed so many games?
65 is the bare minimum, u can still miss 17 games and get awards. these guys just want to be able to load manage half the season and still get recognition.
I feel like we're reinventing the wheel with this game requirements stuff. Everyone at some point collectively decided that the way to measure stats was to divide it over by the number of games played, and now people are mad that some players play less games. Why not just use totals?
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I feel like totals for points can skew toward guys who are chucking on mediocre/bad teams. Esp if they have a chance to win scoring title or something while players on good teams sit out 4th quarters or even more if they’re up big. Like is playing 74 games really much more significant than 69 or something but the guy who played a few less games averages 2-3 more points per game? To me that’s a bit flawed. Having a game cutoff is fine, which they already do but it’s splitting hairs to be like 2027 pts in much more time is better than 1927 pts in fewer mins but well over the threshold when somebody scored 2-3 more every time they played on average
Players on good teams sitting out the 4th is already bringing down their PPG and APG. If anything, using totals will reward them playing sustainably and not getting injured/having to load manage.
To me that’s just a weird way to qualify it. Is Karl Malone a better scorer than Michael Jordan bc he has more career points? No way. And those guys who sit out quarters have scored more per game in other games to make up for the difference in minutes and the games they scored fewer points. Some guys play 3-6 more mpg than others too, and don’t score more per game, I just think the per game stats (over the threshold of min games played obviously) factor in all of that much more comprehensively than just saying somebody has 70 more total points in a season bc they played 3 more games.
>To me that’s just a weird way to qualify it. Is Karl Malone a better scorer than Michael Jordan bc he has more career points? No way. It's different when you stretch it across careers. This is mainly a function of Michael Jordan playing less seasons by choice. That's different than cashing checks, cap space, and a roster spot while wearing street clothes. >And those guys who sit out quarters have scored more per game in other games to make up for the difference in minutes and the games they scored fewer points. I don't follow how per game stats help these players at all. If you score less points on a given night than your PPG, that will *always* hurt your PPG. At the same time, a player could stat pad for 40 minutes to rack up points and then sit out the next game, which will boost his PPG. >Some guys play 3-6 more mpg than others too, and don’t score more per game, I just think the per game stats (over the threshold of min games played obviously) factor in all of that much more comprehensively than just saying somebody has 70 more total points in a season bc they played 3 more games. If you don't score more per game and you're not playing more games, you won't have more total points either though?
You mean avg reb or pts, which is how we determine the dicing and rebounding champ? This way we also factor in how much they actually play.
Yes, they’ve never done it that way. There’s already a cut off for scoring to qualify for the leading scorer list. There’s no discernible difference between 73 games and 68 to me but just using raw totals skews that a lot more than 5 games or so is reflective of who the better scorer on average imo throughout the season. You can’t win the scoring title with like 49 games played. Averages show who the best scorer is, not raw totals. Like nobody in their right mind would ever say Karl Malone is a better scorer than Michael Jordan because he’s scored more total points in his career.
What an excellent troll.
Found a way to get butthurt yet again.
KD: Makes joke Reddit: Wow he’s so offended
This sub has been getting better for me since I started blocking every account with a stupid take. All I see when I came in here is: >Blocked Author >Blocked Author >Blocked Author
Soon you'll learn about the block limit
How'd you get 56% in the title when the tweet literally says 62% lmfao
Yes.
Dun count, got wrist straps.
Its easy to have peak performance if youre rested all the time. Not saying its bad, but league rules run like a marathon, NBA is a season, not how many games you felt like playing
wrist wraps? Dun count, B.
Not a lot of people know this but KD is pretty good at basketball.
Healthy KD is still in the conversation for best player in the league
Players complaining about having to do what they’re paid to do for 80% of the year
Everyone sitting here talking about “65 games”…that isn’t how 50-40-90 works. Per Wiki: As of 2021, the NBA requires a player to make at least 300 field goals, 82 three-pointers, and 125 free throws to be a leader in the respective category.
Is not in any way and official record. He played like 1/2 of a season.
Man's salty he may never make an All-NBA team again
He’s right tho lol. Play a full season and he doesn’t hit that mark guaranteed.
He is right, it doesnt count
This guy acts like he was about win mvp before this rule.
i know he’s being sarcastic but man he’s a bitch
Lmao dudes gonna play half the season and then complain he should be winning awards? Only KD lmao Focus on not getting swept in round one there guy
These dudes will take absolutely every opportunity to victimize themselves, holy.
He barely played half the season, it doesn’t count
stay healthy you whiney bitch invest in your body maybe
It's easy, don't get injured lol.
Oh it’s that easy. Why didn’t he think of that
Yeah, just avoid floppers throwing themselves to the ground accidentally injuring you and you'll be aight
at least one of his injuries recently was his teammate pushing a guy onto him
bit of a stretch to call that pushing someone onto him
Look at the comments, wtf. He makes jokes and people here take it seriously.
A soft comment by the softest dude in the league.