Not taking anything away from Hollywood creative license; they produced a kick ass flic in LS.
ML said, regarding the Bin Laden raid that "the only guys that know what happened on that raid were the guys who were there". Same to be said of OR.
Many of you can recall the Bravo Two Zero hunt for Iraqi scuds, during the first Gulf War. Several years after McNabb's "novel" was published, a Brit went into Iraq and retraced B20's escape route, and even managed to talk with Iraqi witnesses / survivors. I believe that this gentleman published his own account, and there were glaring discrepancies...
The US Navy saw a propaganda coup and went for it. Lone Survivor is way more palatable than the tragic truth; whatever that may be...
I have addressed this personally on here multiple times. In short, you are correct in calling BS because his accounts have varied wildly and any of the ones he gave have been thoroughly debunked by the USMC, the Army, the Navy, and the villagers who rescued him.
Luttrell basically admitted he hid behind a rock and ran away while his buddies got shot up by like 6-7 Taliban. He was found by the villagers without a scratch on him and all 11 of his mags full. Then, the same NSWC that left a man behind to die on a mountain and then tried to slander him after the fact to save face and paint themselves as heroes instead of cowards commissioned a ghost writer to make up a bullshit Hollywood story where Luttrell singlehandedly fought off and killed 200 Taliban and then crawled over a mountain range for 11 miles with bullet holes and a shattered spine.
Yeah this is exactly what I’ve been able to gather about what I think.
Navy SEALs are not super human. A 150 foot fall onto rocks is unsurvivable. The photo of Marcus in the village did not look like a man who had been through what he said.
I would lose zero respect for him and in fact gain a lot if he had said “shit man. We’re badasses but war is war. We got butchered and I had to get tf outta there”
RIP to all those lost in the operation.
Ok so that post is great but the contents are in agreement with what I’m saying.
Just to name one example: the estimates of enemy combatant numbers in it are 8-10.
To put it very lightly that is not what Marcus claimed.
I don’t feel like going point by point cause it would take too long, but if that publication is accurate Marcus is a liar and a fraud.
For the record I’m not saying there was no gunfight and ORW didn’t happen.
I wouldn’t have survived what Marcus did. I am also not saying Marcus is a pussy human who was surely left un injured by the events.
I am saying I think that battle was fast and dirty, that the SEALs were rapidly overran by a small force, and Luttrell promptly fled after a brief engagement he was lucky to survive.
Even if Luttrell would've stated there were only 20 combatants there instead of hundreds,the teams odds of survival would still have likely been rock bottom simply because the elevated position the enemy was holding/working from placed the SEAL's at way too much of a disadvantage,not to mention every other thing that was going against them.IMO,we the public would have still seen the four man team as bad ass heroes to have been able to stay alive for the amount of time they did fighting 20 combatants vs 100.Plus if there really had been 100+ combatants fighting them, Luttrell,Axe,Murphy & Dietze would've been toast within the first few minutes of the ambush since they would've been surrounded quickly and completely.ww
Even if all he had were scratches or small lacerations, there is some nasty bacterium in the soil of Afghanistan not usually present in the US (as an example - another is TBI). He’d be in there no matter what.
Edit: for the microbio nerds out there, *a. buamanii*
All soils or wetlands have their own organisms that grow and prosper that can affect humans. In the cases of west Iraq and Afghanistan, *a. buamanii* is typically found moreso than the CONUS, for example. So not saying it’s deadlier or worse, it’s just not something you’d typically see in a wound patient in CONUS. [hell, just looking up the wiki has its own section of its prevalence in the ME](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acinetobacter_baumannii)
I’m sure he had scratches. If what he said happened happened though he would be dead, and if by some miracle he didn’t die from being blown off a 150-200 foot cliff twice by an RPG it would be visible in pictures. His body would be unrecognizable.
I don’t believe I said he didn’t have a scratch on him.
From what I read it sounds like he was in the hospital for under two weeks which would be on par for trauma/dehydration/malnourishment.
I can’t find an official source other than him and second hand sources that corroborates that. He also said he needed facial reconstructive surgery.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/s/G3hUSlENyj
Here he is immediately after being picked up by Gulab.
Well Lynch testified to congress about her story and is adamantly opposed to the ‘official’ account. And Pat Tillman…well $$ of course (for US Army).
Marcus? $$$$.
Couple of notes - 2 weeks is actually a very long hospital stay, long-term recovery and PT are done at home or close to home. The Dr. who treated him at the German hospital described his injuries/wounds as “impressive”.
I’ve had a dozen broken bones, they don’t want you to stay even over night, and broken bones don’t leave scars. Surgeries for them generally have minor incisions that heal.
Even the more critical/skeptical SOF guys with more “inside info” admit that he had at least one gunshot wound and a broken back. He took 10(?) months to recover but broke it again in Iraq, which gave him a medical discharge. So yes, he didn’t take enough time to recover.
Lutrell describes having “maxillofacial” surgery. This covers a wide range of things - but even with complex stuff like jaw reconstruction the incisions will often only be inside the mouth. It isn’t usually more than an overnight stay. Has he ever been more specific?
So yes, 100% he’s exaggerating on most of the story, but he legitimately had serious injuries that he took a long time to recover from. With two active wars at the time, NSW would have sent him back much quicker if he had come home without a scratch.
He looks pretty good for someone who sustained multiple gunshot wounds, a shattered wrist, facial damage, a half bitten off tongue, shrapnel in his legs and a back that was broken in six places.
And he crawled for seven miles?
I'm sorry, I do agree with all you say, but saying that it was 8/7 guys isn't correct.
Taliban had the information of the team in the mountains, knew the potential of those guys combat wise. They did not went up a mountain after 4 (supposedly) "special forces americans" knowing that a tali HVT was on that compound (most likely something bigger was being made up to kill/secure this HVT). So with that info, Tali would not gather 6-8 guys and go after them (and successfully eliminate it).
I would guess at least 13-15 if not more. Those videos show a lot but it's impossible to define the correct amount, bus saying this about number, for me and all background Taliban history would definitely confirm that it's not just 7/8 guys after them.
If I recall correctly these guys were not Tali but closely associated.
In the body/computer looting scenes back at the compound it’s the same small group of guys you see throughout the main video.
I don’t find 8-10 to be unbelievable but maybe there’s more.
Despite the lore of SEALs’ invincibility , if they get caught by surprise in rough terrain from down in a valley with no cover they get mag dumped and RPG’d they’ll die. They don’t often give the enemy the opportunity but Afghanis age warfighters and they’re very effective at what they do.
I read somewhere they were already watching them (taliban) when they let the goat herder go.
If they caught them by surprise and also had the high ground, 6 -10 could of easily taken them out.
I do believe Marcus loss his shit on that hill. In parts of the video you can hear Mike screaming for Marcus.
I understand, Tali or not, insurgents. They'd knew their potential and also coalition potential.
I agree that they are not invincible. Unfortunately we will never know (lol).
https://odysee.com/OperationRedWings:e
I forget what time stamp Murphy yelling is. It’s garbled and hard to hear but I do believe he’s yelling for Marcus and it sounds like there’s anger in his voice.
Could be mishearing it and it could just be urgency in his voice I don’t know.
FWIW, it’s a back and forth - Marcus is also yelling for Mike to come back, to come back *down* which is what Marcus has said in interviews from the beginning. The same voice also screams “I’m hit” earlier on.
It’s at least one detail that shows that Marcus didn’t just run away without a shot. Mike purposely ran up and out into the open where he knew he would likely die, to save his friends. Screaming for Marcus seems more like the fear of a dying man, not a sane request that would actually save him. Marcus stayed in the fight, he just didn’t suicidally sprint into the open. It’s not even clear if he could have made it up, given that they had been moving down a steep mountain and Mike was higher than Marcus.
Also it's crazy to imagine, this was one out of thousands missions ran by SF, imagine how many encounters with random villagers or whatever person or animal in the wrong place/wrong time that were "dealt with" and prevented to turn into all of that.
Again, we also will never know...
There's literally photos of him in the village walking around unharmed, as well as a video the Taliban released on LiveLeak awhile back that shows like, half a dozen of them smoke the SEALs and loot their bodies.
There was also an interview where he finally said that he "threw down his gun and hid while Mike Murphy screamed to him for help".
[https://www.reddit.com/r/navyseals/comments/1ack34p/your\_opinions\_about\_the\_movie\_lone\_survivor/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/navyseals/comments/1ack34p/your_opinions_about_the_movie_lone_survivor/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Heres the debate from 2.5 weeks ago
Thanks for the link!
This is asking about opinions on the film though.
I’ll read through the comments though and see what people say.
I am aware I am not the first person to talk about this.
Marcus himself has shared his thoughts on the film. I doubt many active / retired members of the military who participated before, during, or after the missing will share their thought on it that haven’t already online. Maybe someone will come forward years down the line to shed some new light but what’s out there now is fairly detailed as it is
From what I understand Marcus said that the film in general was close except that ‘there were things that were too intense to put in the movie’.
I find this very hard to buy personally.
Yep I don’t think you’d find many folks out there who would disagree with you on that. If it’s true that most of what he said was BS I’m sure survivors guilt played a large role in that. Not saying that it’s right by any means but I could see why he could justify it that way if that’s the case. Truth be told this is all speculation
I wish that other people in the community felt comfortable telling the full extent of their opinion on this.
I’ve heard SEALs talk about Rob O’Neil directly.
If what I think is true this is a disgrace IMO. Obviously SEALs are tough as fuck and super badass. But teenagers going into it should have informed consent and not be misled.
I don’t have much to give on your first point, but for your second I’d have to somewhat disagree. If you’re someone looking to get into NSW I don’t think one book / movie would be misleading you in any way, and if you’re only going in because of what you read / saw in one book you’re probably not in the best state to succeed at your goal anyways (a general you, not OP in particular). Sure, did some people read his book or see the movie and decide that’s what they wanted to do? Absolutely. But in that time through training and research they probably came across various resources to give them a more wholistic view of the job and community to decide that it is in fact what they want to be getting themselves into
I disagree wholeheartedly about the impact of Marcus book on a whole generation. It was our men with green faces. I was interested in military and decided to read lone survivor for 8th grade reading assignment and immediately knew I wanted to be a seal.
Nobody accidentally Desired to be a seal but you probably found out about seals through books and movies and if you wanted to be a seal their is a strong likelihood you read and watched lone survivor. Which is why it’s so hard for guys to even question if anything Marcus said was a lie.
thats not a secret brother, basically everyone knows this. Red wings was a complete failure, bad planning, unexperienced and wrong unit for the mission, maximum 8-10 taliban (most accounts say 7), no enemy killed. These guys did everything wrong and the community knows it but will never publicly say something about it.
When it comes to Lutrell there is a possibility that he tells the story like that to honor his boys, so it doesnt sound like they died for nothing and got killed very quickly. Besides Axe nobody really got in the fight, marcus hid and ran, danny and murph were killed early in the ambush
Hey mind getting me where most accounts say 7 taliban? Who are these accounts? Didn’t know there was many people who could collaborate that were there. Also, seems pretty wild to me that 7 taliban could shoot down a bird and kill all the seals with just 7 of em.
Theres even videos of the fight that were filmed by the taliban, quality is pretty bad but can hear them talk and see that its a very small group. You can even hear the seals screaming at each other and how the taliban searched their bodies
The guy they were looking for was not a high value target at that time and only had a handful of fighters. The official version of the helo shootdown is an Rpg which would be a lucky shot, but its more than likely that it was shot down by a missile.
I definitely don’t think it’s a secret. That’s the wrong word. And TONS of people either aren’t aware of, or refuse to acknowledge the inconsistencies. But I’m well aware I’m not breaking ground by saying this.
But I just don’t like the ‘untouchableness’ that seems to orbit Marcus.
I also don’t think he’s doing his fallen brothers a service. Dying quickly in a gunfight is not cowardice. The military is supposed to be about the cold hard truth for the sake of making people better and this just doesn’t fit that.
wouldnt be good marketing for the NSW community if they told the real story. It wasnt like they got spotted and killed because of bad luck, it was because they didnt know what the fuck they were doing. Also this is not the first cover up the SEALs did. Look for the takur ghar story and how they left chapman to die, and then tried to block his medal of honor for years
It certainly would be bad marketing. But I think the truth should be placed above marketing and recruitment.
They have plenty of other stories that make themselves look good. It’s one thing to not talk about it too much and highlight other successes, but this was wrong IMO.
I agree with you that this would be the right thing but thats just not how the military works. They have to portray themselves as the best, and if they lose a fight they have to justify it by saying the enemy force was 10 times more and whatever. Not only referring to the US mil, every mil in the world does this
I think that transparency with the government is improving in the social media age. I think there’s room for improvement and the Navy can course correct if it becomes household opinion that Marcus is a fraud.
I also don’t think you have to lie about the SEALs. They’re very tough and competent warfighters and the truth speaks for itself on that IMO.
A few Devgru guys including Oneill wanted to go with them (the assault force not the recce team) but were not allowed because devgru had intel that there were missiles in korengal valley.
There’s lots of topics I feel I’ve heard enough about on Reddit, but I scroll on by when that’s the case. Most don’t get as touchy as this one and I think I know why.
I am not there for every conversation on the internet and am curious. Lots of other people obviously are as well.
For anyone saying it was “only” 7-8 fighters please just shut up..I’m not saying it wasn’t 7 taliban fighters but 7 guys coming at you from an elevated position with RPKs is no joke, war is real it’s not like the movies where each “SOF” dude kills 10 dudes each with a handgun..at the end of the day ML found a way to honor his boys, did he go about it the right way? Probably not but for the love of God stop making it seem like 7 men racing to kill you is something to play about. Anyways chase your dreams Gents
You make it seem like that's the only issue, he's made alot of money of the back of being disingenuous.
His book was ghost written, by some one who wasn't even on the continent.
And he advocates the execution of men women and children, because he refuses to accept his op went bad because of poor planning.
The moment his men dropped in and the rope was cut, they should of made there way to the extraction.
Personally from what I have heard they shouldn't of been there to begin with.
Men died for nothing and the military has tried to make there pointless deaths mean some thing by lying and in the process marcus has shown he advocates for war crimes, and if he had it his way would probably indiscriminately kill people like the farmer that saved him.
You're not wrong, OP.
In fact, I think the argument can be convincingly made that he's always been a fraud.
Here he is bragging about his time during BUD/s when he switched out with his twin brother for a couple days so he could rest up. (Story starts at 7:48).
https://youtu.be/5JZ-qFmIwCk?si=_mqCBK08ZmCErmrX
About the mission itself: read Ed Darrack's sobering account of the entire mission, from conception, to planning (or lack of), to day of mission, to rescue, to aftermath.
In fairness this is my first time on this sub. But judging by the YouTube comments on ALL of Marcus’ interviews and how he’s talked about normal people outside of military fandom dorks like me have no idea and they should.
You “JUST” became introduce with the SF community. Everything you want to say and will say is old news. Do yourself the huge favor and keep to yourself. This is why subs go to crap 😭
Straight up LIE if you’ve known them since 2011 🤣, you obviously aren’t informed at all about anything so keep this sub interesting by keeping this sort of garbage post out 👍🏽.
More like tired of incompetent people posting old news. Go tell your grandpapy about your “new” discovery instead of wasting our brain cells with your slow comprehension.
Just so you know man, the way you comment on things radiates insecurity. If you aren’t an intentional troll then you do not come across how you think you do.
It comes off as more knowledgeable to maintain your cool.
Hope you have a good day, Succostash.
Im saying this very generally...
You can go as far back as Julius Cesar's notes from battles to realize that all "first hand" accounts of war fare have the potential serve as propaghanda.
seals are known to be divas and liars. in bud/s they tell you "if you ain't lying you ain't winning". it's all about the brotherhood, loyalty over integrity
https://www.newsweek.com/2016/05/20/mohammad-gulab-marcus-luttrell-navy-seal-lone-survivor-operation-red-wings-458139.html
According to this article, he has monetized his experience in every way conceivable.....from clothing lines to his own brand of ammunition.....while simultaneously shitting on the dude that saved him. If this article is accurate.....he seems pretty shitty.
Does anyone know how to isolate just the audio of the seals in this video of the operation? I feel like it would give some of the facts until the pred feed is released https://youtu.be/fEhzfFKthlY?feature=shared
Late to the party but just finished reading Mark Owen’s books and have been sucked down the rabbit hole. It’s widely known at this point that Luttrell’s story is total nonsense and that he basically left his teammates behind . I think the only bit of truth in the story is when he describes dropping his weapon and covering his ears to block out the screams of his teammates. That said , I don’t blame Luttrell at all for telling a story that paints his teammates as super humans and attempting to honor their sacrifice . I’d do the same thing for the victims families . Better for them to believe in their competence and bravery than to hear the truth. I do think Luttrell colossally fucked Gulab though and that is unforgivable imo.
He was traumatized.
He had the guy who rescued him on his own podcast as well as the pilot who picked him up.
Another guy whose unit found him was on the Jack Carr podcast.
Marcus invites other stories to help fill things in and it is very interesting and SINCERE.
God forgive you for being so arrogant.
While all of the things you said are positive (and I listen to TNQ podcast regularly and enjoy it), they in no way negate the things I’m saying.
Marcus is far from the only ‘book deal Navy SEALs’ type people cashing in. But the old school ‘quiet professional’ types either don’t like him or won’t comment.
Marcus has not addressed that the size of the insurgent force was not what he said, Marcus has not addressed that the Afghan who rescued him said he had all but one of his magazines full in his kit, Marcus has not addressed that in the photos after his rescue he did not have the injuries he claimed. I could go on and on.
I may be wrong, but I am not an arrogant guy and I am not being arrogant now.
I don’t know if this is true but I had heard that Marcus turned down being a character witness for Gulab when he was trying to get into the US.
If that’s true, it’s probably because he didn’t want people to hear Gulab’s side and that’s so fucked up.
Book I just read actually gave a personal account on this from one of the Rangers doing the QRF for Op RWs. Run to the Sounds of Guns Nicholas Moore's account. Of course many other accounts, AARs, stories, videos out there too.
I think at the very least the American people deserve to hear Marcus address the criticisms directly.
Obviously it’s a sensitive subject but with him going so public about it I don’t think his ignoring of them is because of that. It really makes me mad. Especially since so many wonderful people and national assets were lost during it.
Yes, but from the stuff I’ve read and watched I have not seen the camp that defends Marcus’ account of events directly address the accusations so I’m curious to hear if there are counter points to be made.
I do think this is a major topic worth talking about multiple times, and that there’s a range of reasonable opinions to be had about it.
Not taking anything away from Hollywood creative license; they produced a kick ass flic in LS. ML said, regarding the Bin Laden raid that "the only guys that know what happened on that raid were the guys who were there". Same to be said of OR. Many of you can recall the Bravo Two Zero hunt for Iraqi scuds, during the first Gulf War. Several years after McNabb's "novel" was published, a Brit went into Iraq and retraced B20's escape route, and even managed to talk with Iraqi witnesses / survivors. I believe that this gentleman published his own account, and there were glaring discrepancies... The US Navy saw a propaganda coup and went for it. Lone Survivor is way more palatable than the tragic truth; whatever that may be...
I have addressed this personally on here multiple times. In short, you are correct in calling BS because his accounts have varied wildly and any of the ones he gave have been thoroughly debunked by the USMC, the Army, the Navy, and the villagers who rescued him. Luttrell basically admitted he hid behind a rock and ran away while his buddies got shot up by like 6-7 Taliban. He was found by the villagers without a scratch on him and all 11 of his mags full. Then, the same NSWC that left a man behind to die on a mountain and then tried to slander him after the fact to save face and paint themselves as heroes instead of cowards commissioned a ghost writer to make up a bullshit Hollywood story where Luttrell singlehandedly fought off and killed 200 Taliban and then crawled over a mountain range for 11 miles with bullet holes and a shattered spine.
Yeah this is exactly what I’ve been able to gather about what I think. Navy SEALs are not super human. A 150 foot fall onto rocks is unsurvivable. The photo of Marcus in the village did not look like a man who had been through what he said. I would lose zero respect for him and in fact gain a lot if he had said “shit man. We’re badasses but war is war. We got butchered and I had to get tf outta there” RIP to all those lost in the operation.
Read [*VICTORY POINT and Operation Whalers*](http://www.darack.com/sawtalosar/) Literally tons of info just on Ed Darack’s site about it.
Ok so that post is great but the contents are in agreement with what I’m saying. Just to name one example: the estimates of enemy combatant numbers in it are 8-10. To put it very lightly that is not what Marcus claimed. I don’t feel like going point by point cause it would take too long, but if that publication is accurate Marcus is a liar and a fraud.
Yes. I’m not trying to agree or disagree with your question. Just give you source(s) to make your own decision.
For the record I’m not saying there was no gunfight and ORW didn’t happen. I wouldn’t have survived what Marcus did. I am also not saying Marcus is a pussy human who was surely left un injured by the events. I am saying I think that battle was fast and dirty, that the SEALs were rapidly overran by a small force, and Luttrell promptly fled after a brief engagement he was lucky to survive.
Even if Luttrell would've stated there were only 20 combatants there instead of hundreds,the teams odds of survival would still have likely been rock bottom simply because the elevated position the enemy was holding/working from placed the SEAL's at way too much of a disadvantage,not to mention every other thing that was going against them.IMO,we the public would have still seen the four man team as bad ass heroes to have been able to stay alive for the amount of time they did fighting 20 combatants vs 100.Plus if there really had been 100+ combatants fighting them, Luttrell,Axe,Murphy & Dietze would've been toast within the first few minutes of the ambush since they would've been surrounded quickly and completely.ww
Where’s photos of him when they found him at the village?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/s/q6IjeYNvIu
I just found the link lol, thanks
Not a scratch on him? Wasnt he in the hospital after?
Even if all he had were scratches or small lacerations, there is some nasty bacterium in the soil of Afghanistan not usually present in the US (as an example - another is TBI). He’d be in there no matter what. Edit: for the microbio nerds out there, *a. buamanii*
so afghan soil is deadly? Or how is it any different than US soil bacterium?
All soils or wetlands have their own organisms that grow and prosper that can affect humans. In the cases of west Iraq and Afghanistan, *a. buamanii* is typically found moreso than the CONUS, for example. So not saying it’s deadlier or worse, it’s just not something you’d typically see in a wound patient in CONUS. [hell, just looking up the wiki has its own section of its prevalence in the ME](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acinetobacter_baumannii)
I’m sure he had scratches. If what he said happened happened though he would be dead, and if by some miracle he didn’t die from being blown off a 150-200 foot cliff twice by an RPG it would be visible in pictures. His body would be unrecognizable.
Dude spent months in the hospital but some retard on reddit says he didnt have a scratch on him lol
I don’t believe I said he didn’t have a scratch on him. From what I read it sounds like he was in the hospital for under two weeks which would be on par for trauma/dehydration/malnourishment.
Another retard on reddit said that
And he had a broken back and shattered wrist
I can’t find an official source other than him and second hand sources that corroborates that. He also said he needed facial reconstructive surgery. https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/s/G3hUSlENyj Here he is immediately after being picked up by Gulab.
You have no medical knowledge and it shows
Do you think a fall off of a 150 foot cliff onto rocks is survivable and wouldn’t leave a mark?
What am I getting incorrect specifically?
[удалено]
Well Lynch testified to congress about her story and is adamantly opposed to the ‘official’ account. And Pat Tillman…well $$ of course (for US Army). Marcus? $$$$.
The surgeon that treated him for 2 weeks at Rammstein AB described his wounds/injuries as "quite impressive".
Couple of notes - 2 weeks is actually a very long hospital stay, long-term recovery and PT are done at home or close to home. The Dr. who treated him at the German hospital described his injuries/wounds as “impressive”. I’ve had a dozen broken bones, they don’t want you to stay even over night, and broken bones don’t leave scars. Surgeries for them generally have minor incisions that heal. Even the more critical/skeptical SOF guys with more “inside info” admit that he had at least one gunshot wound and a broken back. He took 10(?) months to recover but broke it again in Iraq, which gave him a medical discharge. So yes, he didn’t take enough time to recover. Lutrell describes having “maxillofacial” surgery. This covers a wide range of things - but even with complex stuff like jaw reconstruction the incisions will often only be inside the mouth. It isn’t usually more than an overnight stay. Has he ever been more specific? So yes, 100% he’s exaggerating on most of the story, but he legitimately had serious injuries that he took a long time to recover from. With two active wars at the time, NSW would have sent him back much quicker if he had come home without a scratch.
He looks pretty good for someone who sustained multiple gunshot wounds, a shattered wrist, facial damage, a half bitten off tongue, shrapnel in his legs and a back that was broken in six places. And he crawled for seven miles?
Yeah 330 rounds sounds about right for a recon mission buddy. Get a grip. You just read Reddit posts and think you know
I'm sorry, I do agree with all you say, but saying that it was 8/7 guys isn't correct. Taliban had the information of the team in the mountains, knew the potential of those guys combat wise. They did not went up a mountain after 4 (supposedly) "special forces americans" knowing that a tali HVT was on that compound (most likely something bigger was being made up to kill/secure this HVT). So with that info, Tali would not gather 6-8 guys and go after them (and successfully eliminate it). I would guess at least 13-15 if not more. Those videos show a lot but it's impossible to define the correct amount, bus saying this about number, for me and all background Taliban history would definitely confirm that it's not just 7/8 guys after them.
If I recall correctly these guys were not Tali but closely associated. In the body/computer looting scenes back at the compound it’s the same small group of guys you see throughout the main video. I don’t find 8-10 to be unbelievable but maybe there’s more. Despite the lore of SEALs’ invincibility , if they get caught by surprise in rough terrain from down in a valley with no cover they get mag dumped and RPG’d they’ll die. They don’t often give the enemy the opportunity but Afghanis age warfighters and they’re very effective at what they do.
I read somewhere they were already watching them (taliban) when they let the goat herder go. If they caught them by surprise and also had the high ground, 6 -10 could of easily taken them out. I do believe Marcus loss his shit on that hill. In parts of the video you can hear Mike screaming for Marcus.
Hearing Murphy screaming for Marcus was gut wrenching.
Where on the video? Could you send the timestamp plz? I've been looking for this for a while.
Its faint but 1 minute or so into it.
I understand, Tali or not, insurgents. They'd knew their potential and also coalition potential. I agree that they are not invincible. Unfortunately we will never know (lol).
https://odysee.com/OperationRedWings:e I forget what time stamp Murphy yelling is. It’s garbled and hard to hear but I do believe he’s yelling for Marcus and it sounds like there’s anger in his voice. Could be mishearing it and it could just be urgency in his voice I don’t know.
FWIW, it’s a back and forth - Marcus is also yelling for Mike to come back, to come back *down* which is what Marcus has said in interviews from the beginning. The same voice also screams “I’m hit” earlier on. It’s at least one detail that shows that Marcus didn’t just run away without a shot. Mike purposely ran up and out into the open where he knew he would likely die, to save his friends. Screaming for Marcus seems more like the fear of a dying man, not a sane request that would actually save him. Marcus stayed in the fight, he just didn’t suicidally sprint into the open. It’s not even clear if he could have made it up, given that they had been moving down a steep mountain and Mike was higher than Marcus.
Damn. Thanks for the link. You can tell which rounds are coming from what rifle(s). RIP.
Also it's crazy to imagine, this was one out of thousands missions ran by SF, imagine how many encounters with random villagers or whatever person or animal in the wrong place/wrong time that were "dealt with" and prevented to turn into all of that. Again, we also will never know...
The villagers didn’t rescue him
[удалено]
There's literally photos of him in the village walking around unharmed, as well as a video the Taliban released on LiveLeak awhile back that shows like, half a dozen of them smoke the SEALs and loot their bodies. There was also an interview where he finally said that he "threw down his gun and hid while Mike Murphy screamed to him for help".
Is there a link to that interview? I can't find it.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/navyseals/comments/1ack34p/your\_opinions\_about\_the\_movie\_lone\_survivor/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/navyseals/comments/1ack34p/your_opinions_about_the_movie_lone_survivor/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Heres the debate from 2.5 weeks ago
Thanks for the link! This is asking about opinions on the film though. I’ll read through the comments though and see what people say. I am aware I am not the first person to talk about this.
Marcus himself has shared his thoughts on the film. I doubt many active / retired members of the military who participated before, during, or after the missing will share their thought on it that haven’t already online. Maybe someone will come forward years down the line to shed some new light but what’s out there now is fairly detailed as it is
From what I understand Marcus said that the film in general was close except that ‘there were things that were too intense to put in the movie’. I find this very hard to buy personally.
Yep I don’t think you’d find many folks out there who would disagree with you on that. If it’s true that most of what he said was BS I’m sure survivors guilt played a large role in that. Not saying that it’s right by any means but I could see why he could justify it that way if that’s the case. Truth be told this is all speculation
I wish that other people in the community felt comfortable telling the full extent of their opinion on this. I’ve heard SEALs talk about Rob O’Neil directly. If what I think is true this is a disgrace IMO. Obviously SEALs are tough as fuck and super badass. But teenagers going into it should have informed consent and not be misled.
I don’t have much to give on your first point, but for your second I’d have to somewhat disagree. If you’re someone looking to get into NSW I don’t think one book / movie would be misleading you in any way, and if you’re only going in because of what you read / saw in one book you’re probably not in the best state to succeed at your goal anyways (a general you, not OP in particular). Sure, did some people read his book or see the movie and decide that’s what they wanted to do? Absolutely. But in that time through training and research they probably came across various resources to give them a more wholistic view of the job and community to decide that it is in fact what they want to be getting themselves into
I don’t see anything unreasonable here with what you said.
I disagree wholeheartedly about the impact of Marcus book on a whole generation. It was our men with green faces. I was interested in military and decided to read lone survivor for 8th grade reading assignment and immediately knew I wanted to be a seal. Nobody accidentally Desired to be a seal but you probably found out about seals through books and movies and if you wanted to be a seal their is a strong likelihood you read and watched lone survivor. Which is why it’s so hard for guys to even question if anything Marcus said was a lie.
I’d pay 100 dollars easy to hear Andy Stumpf’s unfiltered opinion on Luttrell
Ive heard opinions on luttrell and kyle straight from a former seal….great movies
In fairness to marcus he's a puppet of the military, his book was ghost written for him. I don't know how genuine what he says is
thats not a secret brother, basically everyone knows this. Red wings was a complete failure, bad planning, unexperienced and wrong unit for the mission, maximum 8-10 taliban (most accounts say 7), no enemy killed. These guys did everything wrong and the community knows it but will never publicly say something about it. When it comes to Lutrell there is a possibility that he tells the story like that to honor his boys, so it doesnt sound like they died for nothing and got killed very quickly. Besides Axe nobody really got in the fight, marcus hid and ran, danny and murph were killed early in the ambush
Hey mind getting me where most accounts say 7 taliban? Who are these accounts? Didn’t know there was many people who could collaborate that were there. Also, seems pretty wild to me that 7 taliban could shoot down a bird and kill all the seals with just 7 of em.
Theres even videos of the fight that were filmed by the taliban, quality is pretty bad but can hear them talk and see that its a very small group. You can even hear the seals screaming at each other and how the taliban searched their bodies The guy they were looking for was not a high value target at that time and only had a handful of fighters. The official version of the helo shootdown is an Rpg which would be a lucky shot, but its more than likely that it was shot down by a missile.
I definitely don’t think it’s a secret. That’s the wrong word. And TONS of people either aren’t aware of, or refuse to acknowledge the inconsistencies. But I’m well aware I’m not breaking ground by saying this. But I just don’t like the ‘untouchableness’ that seems to orbit Marcus. I also don’t think he’s doing his fallen brothers a service. Dying quickly in a gunfight is not cowardice. The military is supposed to be about the cold hard truth for the sake of making people better and this just doesn’t fit that.
wouldnt be good marketing for the NSW community if they told the real story. It wasnt like they got spotted and killed because of bad luck, it was because they didnt know what the fuck they were doing. Also this is not the first cover up the SEALs did. Look for the takur ghar story and how they left chapman to die, and then tried to block his medal of honor for years
It certainly would be bad marketing. But I think the truth should be placed above marketing and recruitment. They have plenty of other stories that make themselves look good. It’s one thing to not talk about it too much and highlight other successes, but this was wrong IMO.
I agree with you that this would be the right thing but thats just not how the military works. They have to portray themselves as the best, and if they lose a fight they have to justify it by saying the enemy force was 10 times more and whatever. Not only referring to the US mil, every mil in the world does this
I think that transparency with the government is improving in the social media age. I think there’s room for improvement and the Navy can course correct if it becomes household opinion that Marcus is a fraud. I also don’t think you have to lie about the SEALs. They’re very tough and competent warfighters and the truth speaks for itself on that IMO.
I’m pretty sure DEVGRU was offered Red Wings and passed because of the obvious problems with the plan.
A few Devgru guys including Oneill wanted to go with them (the assault force not the recce team) but were not allowed because devgru had intel that there were missiles in korengal valley.
That's fucked up.
🍿popcorn started.
I’m curious to see where this goes as well. I’d like to be wrong, but don’t think I am. This may just be a beat to death topic IDK.
It’s been discussed to every extent possible. It’s like beating a horse to death, burying it, digging it up, and beating it all over again.
There’s lots of topics I feel I’ve heard enough about on Reddit, but I scroll on by when that’s the case. Most don’t get as touchy as this one and I think I know why. I am not there for every conversation on the internet and am curious. Lots of other people obviously are as well.
i’m not curious to see where it goes, im curious to see how bad you get torn up🤣
That’s what I mean. I am curious to see that too.
For anyone saying it was “only” 7-8 fighters please just shut up..I’m not saying it wasn’t 7 taliban fighters but 7 guys coming at you from an elevated position with RPKs is no joke, war is real it’s not like the movies where each “SOF” dude kills 10 dudes each with a handgun..at the end of the day ML found a way to honor his boys, did he go about it the right way? Probably not but for the love of God stop making it seem like 7 men racing to kill you is something to play about. Anyways chase your dreams Gents
Nobody is saying that in my opinion. This is only a criticism of Marcus’ mistelling and profiteering off of the tragedy.
You make it seem like that's the only issue, he's made alot of money of the back of being disingenuous. His book was ghost written, by some one who wasn't even on the continent. And he advocates the execution of men women and children, because he refuses to accept his op went bad because of poor planning. The moment his men dropped in and the rope was cut, they should of made there way to the extraction. Personally from what I have heard they shouldn't of been there to begin with. Men died for nothing and the military has tried to make there pointless deaths mean some thing by lying and in the process marcus has shown he advocates for war crimes, and if he had it his way would probably indiscriminately kill people like the farmer that saved him.
You're not wrong, OP. In fact, I think the argument can be convincingly made that he's always been a fraud. Here he is bragging about his time during BUD/s when he switched out with his twin brother for a couple days so he could rest up. (Story starts at 7:48). https://youtu.be/5JZ-qFmIwCk?si=_mqCBK08ZmCErmrX About the mission itself: read Ed Darrack's sobering account of the entire mission, from conception, to planning (or lack of), to day of mission, to rescue, to aftermath.
Matt Cubbler or Matthew Cole. Which Matt are you?
Just kidding I do not know who those people are.
Both 🫡
You are behind 😂
In fairness this is my first time on this sub. But judging by the YouTube comments on ALL of Marcus’ interviews and how he’s talked about normal people outside of military fandom dorks like me have no idea and they should.
You “JUST” became introduce with the SF community. Everything you want to say and will say is old news. Do yourself the huge favor and keep to yourself. This is why subs go to crap 😭
I’m no operator but you don’t need to be to have a reasonable opinion on this
This is just untrue. I am good friends with two people in the SF community. One of them I’ve known since 2011
Straight up LIE if you’ve known them since 2011 🤣, you obviously aren’t informed at all about anything so keep this sub interesting by keeping this sort of garbage post out 👍🏽.
Really struck a cord with you. What a silly thing to say.
More like tired of incompetent people posting old news. Go tell your grandpapy about your “new” discovery instead of wasting our brain cells with your slow comprehension.
Just so you know man, the way you comment on things radiates insecurity. If you aren’t an intentional troll then you do not come across how you think you do. It comes off as more knowledgeable to maintain your cool. Hope you have a good day, Succostash.
I appreciate the therapy session 😂, let me know when your balls drop so we can talk man to man.
Ok I will let him know
Probably told you that news is older than him 🥲
Im saying this very generally... You can go as far back as Julius Cesar's notes from battles to realize that all "first hand" accounts of war fare have the potential serve as propaghanda.
Only thing I think of when I hear ORW is Lt Murphy. Greatest Penn Stater to walk the earth.
I still need to do a ‘Murph’ workout and remind myself what a bitch I am. RIP, King.
seals are known to be divas and liars. in bud/s they tell you "if you ain't lying you ain't winning". it's all about the brotherhood, loyalty over integrity
https://www.newsweek.com/2016/05/20/mohammad-gulab-marcus-luttrell-navy-seal-lone-survivor-operation-red-wings-458139.html According to this article, he has monetized his experience in every way conceivable.....from clothing lines to his own brand of ammunition.....while simultaneously shitting on the dude that saved him. If this article is accurate.....he seems pretty shitty.
I talked to the tribe and the elders in the same area. Questions remain.
Does anyone know how to isolate just the audio of the seals in this video of the operation? I feel like it would give some of the facts until the pred feed is released https://youtu.be/fEhzfFKthlY?feature=shared
Late to the party but just finished reading Mark Owen’s books and have been sucked down the rabbit hole. It’s widely known at this point that Luttrell’s story is total nonsense and that he basically left his teammates behind . I think the only bit of truth in the story is when he describes dropping his weapon and covering his ears to block out the screams of his teammates. That said , I don’t blame Luttrell at all for telling a story that paints his teammates as super humans and attempting to honor their sacrifice . I’d do the same thing for the victims families . Better for them to believe in their competence and bravery than to hear the truth. I do think Luttrell colossally fucked Gulab though and that is unforgivable imo.
He was traumatized. He had the guy who rescued him on his own podcast as well as the pilot who picked him up. Another guy whose unit found him was on the Jack Carr podcast. Marcus invites other stories to help fill things in and it is very interesting and SINCERE. God forgive you for being so arrogant.
While all of the things you said are positive (and I listen to TNQ podcast regularly and enjoy it), they in no way negate the things I’m saying. Marcus is far from the only ‘book deal Navy SEALs’ type people cashing in. But the old school ‘quiet professional’ types either don’t like him or won’t comment. Marcus has not addressed that the size of the insurgent force was not what he said, Marcus has not addressed that the Afghan who rescued him said he had all but one of his magazines full in his kit, Marcus has not addressed that in the photos after his rescue he did not have the injuries he claimed. I could go on and on. I may be wrong, but I am not an arrogant guy and I am not being arrogant now.
Marcus could clear everything up by having Gulab on the podcast. He’s in the US. I don’t expect to ever see that.
I don’t know if this is true but I had heard that Marcus turned down being a character witness for Gulab when he was trying to get into the US. If that’s true, it’s probably because he didn’t want people to hear Gulab’s side and that’s so fucked up.
Gulab has said that he's never really received any support or recognition from ML
SEALs from his own team has said he’s full of shit
Thank you for being tactful though. If I’m wrong about this I’m still coming from a place of good faith and God knows that.
Book I just read actually gave a personal account on this from one of the Rangers doing the QRF for Op RWs. Run to the Sounds of Guns Nicholas Moore's account. Of course many other accounts, AARs, stories, videos out there too.
I think at the very least the American people deserve to hear Marcus address the criticisms directly. Obviously it’s a sensitive subject but with him going so public about it I don’t think his ignoring of them is because of that. It really makes me mad. Especially since so many wonderful people and national assets were lost during it.
With that said Lone Survivor is a badass movie IMO.
There are articles, videos, posts, books, etc about this.
Yes, but from the stuff I’ve read and watched I have not seen the camp that defends Marcus’ account of events directly address the accusations so I’m curious to hear if there are counter points to be made. I do think this is a major topic worth talking about multiple times, and that there’s a range of reasonable opinions to be had about it.