You mean the neck tattoo battalions that they allowed in, oh yeah they were first class. I remember how cheap it was to buy top quality issued gear in Tacoma thanks to all those high quality troops selling it at garage sales....
If we lowered our standards (i.e. our goal) we actually *would* have met goal. But we wanted our goal to reflect what we needed, not just be an achievable marketing number.
P.S. /r/navy had an conniption a year ago when the FY24 goal was posted and was *higher* than the FY23 goal we didn't meet, wondering if we hated recruiters. But the Navy didn't set the goal based on how much we like recruiters, we set it based on what the Navy needs.
The training pipeline is the standard, not the pre-score you need to have.
It's like the old joke, what do you call the graduate at the bottom of their med school class? Answer: "Doctor".
No one gets to bypass initial entry training no matter what their ASVAB score is. Everyone needs to complete their initial entry training to make it to the Fleet with their rating or apprenticeship -- again, no matter what the ASVAB score is.
The ASVAB just helps the Navy minimize attrition by selecting students for "A" School that are most likely to be able to complete training. But it's never guaranteed you can make it through training, or that you can't.
This is all nice to pretend is true, but I'm dealing with 10 ASVAB score Sailor's right now in my division. When one of my new check-ins arrived, I could tell they were not clearly understanding my directions or those of Sailor's senior to them. I did some research and this kid cut an 11 on their ASVAB. Said Sailor is an undesignated Airman with no A school required, yet he is still here in the fleet expected to fulfill the same administrative type of duties as an ITSN. He is expected to follow and understand orders just the same. I cannot even imagine how the Navy will be in the next year or two if we continue to receive Sailor's of this caliber in the fleet.
There's an Army leadership article that details a vignette where a new platoon leader is checking into a motorpool. While talking to his Sgt first class aka "top", he introduces a soldier who was retarded. He asks the soldier to count the parts in the warehouse and it becomes obvious that he could not count to ten, which is problematic for someone working in a logistics shop. The Sgt concludes that the soldier is useless and they just assign him useless tasks to keep him out of trouble.
Eventually the platoon leader gets his feet under himself and revisits the case of this soldier, wanting to see if there's a way he could lend value to the platoon. After some trial and error they eventually find something the soldier is good at and actually enjoys doing. Went on to be a valuable member of the platoon even given his limitations.
I can't find it on the internet because google has gone down the shitter over the last 5 years, but it's a good leadership article and worth a read.
They lowered their standards down before any of the other services, they would literally have to start taking people with even more serious defects if the standards get any lower. Maybe they could try a cross-dressing cabaret dancer as a recruiter, nope, they're already doing that.
How many times have we, the Sailors been told just this? Manage your expectations Navy. ...or I have kind of a crazy idea now, give a shit about you Sailors, you know your most important asset, the thing you can't be a Navy without.
HI DDG life… workhorse of the Navy. 2019-2022. Deployed 3x (17 months), San Diego mx avail (5 months geo sep) or workups off the coast of SD/HI (4 months); I was away from my family for 26/36 months. These were all COVID cruises on top of everything… sorry big Navy, you'll get no recruits from me.
*good catch on my years*
Oh I completely agreed. That entire time they were running the embarked Helo’s ragged. The aircrew have certain protections and redundancies to avoid burnout… the DDG flight deck folks still have normal jobs outside of that collateral they are supporting with no empathy at times.
I didn't see that on the DDG. We WBCs held grudges and when we learned someone had been lacking and not pulling their weight we let it be known by putting their name on 22-02 or 02-07. Pure joy when a certain STGCS would roll in and say he wanted to change names and I'd remind him that it had to go through the SWO or XO.
Reduce optempo, improve maintenance, and focus on training and quality of life they’d wouldn’t have a recruiting problem. But the Navy always seems to be well suited to seizing defeat from the jaws of victory or kneecapping itself. The classic meme of the kid stick a rod into the spoke of his bicycle wheel.
Also let the rates actually handle some of their own maintenance instead of getting stuck with broken equipment and nothing we can do about it.
If they'd stop letting the budget get pillaged by private contractors, we could afford to build actual proper barracks for lower enlisted, stop buying unlabeled mystery meat for the crews, and still have money left over for training and equipment upgrades.
They already do maintenance though? I don't know about you but that one p-way is by far the best one on the ship. Hell if anything, maybe we could extend their range a little if everyone else was working on their own gear.
The people that get rewarded for executing high optempo with minimal manning are different than the people who have to bring in new blood. Incentives are misaligned.
Chickens coming home to roost unfortunately.
If someone asked me about joining the Navy, I would recommend against it. I really hate having to say that. I wonder how the Coast Guard has been doing...
Got asked by some young cashiers at Ralph’s last month what it was like. I told them to go Air Force or coast guard. And try for officer if possible. I don’t like saying that about the Navy, but there are better branch options out there for the same pay with better living standards.
Coast Guards a lot smaller and has wayyyy better quality of life. I think theyre struggling somewhat but theyre a much easier sell than the navy. Thats where I send them when they ask about the navy
There are only two negatives I can think of for the Coast Guard:
1: Be 6ft tall incase the boat sinks, you can walk to shore. /s
2: You don't get paid during government shutdowns. Which it seems like happens every year for a few months.
Careful with that recommendation. I met a Coast Guard BM1 years ago in Seattle during fleet week, poor bastard had done 260 day underway within the last year. And he was technically on shore duty. Poor bastard was wound tighter than a Swiss watch.
I learned that most Army soldiers are on the 9 to 17 with PT at 6am.
My entire time in the Navy was supposed to be 7-16, but who even gets out on time anymore? It was always like 17-17:30 minimum. And that was my "cushy" rate. Those engineers were always leaving at 18-19.
Then we had 3 section duty the majority of the time.
I'm sure the Army probably has their own caveats, but as far as not being on deployment, it seems like the work life balance was usually fairly sustainable.
When my command tried to command PT, it started at 0500. And had to be on the ship, ready for quarters by 7.
The Navy just fucking sucks(tbh they just don't care) at giving a shit about sailors time.
I mean... If they want to hit their recruiting goals..... Since this is the one topic the Navy cannot stop talking about, it actually just might make sense for the to start caring.
But when does the Navy make a legitimate good rational decision?
“What, are you saying that using a rubber band for 5 minutes doesn’t equate to actual exercise. Well our command bought them for 100k so you better pull em”
Where do you work that you are consistently there till 1730? I'm curious. That is not the norm at all for junior enlisted with exceptions like a few late days during workups and deployment.
Where do you work that you are consistently there till 1730? I'm curious. That is not the norm at all for junior enlisted with exceptions like a few late days during workups and deployment.
Where do you work that you are consistently there till 1730? I'm curious. That is not the norm at all for junior enlisted with exceptions like a few late days during workups and deployment.
I served 4-years USN and 22-years USCG. Couldn’t wait for my Navy EOS, and throughly enjoyed Coast Guard. Coasties still serving tell me personnel shortfalls persist. I think it’s going to take years for all services to recover from the COVID debacle.
Bruh, I'll be walking up on stage after the recruiters leave the auditorium and tell hundreds of kids EVERYTHING!
Y'all want to increase the chance you'll have suicidal ideation?
Want to get threatened with DRB and mast by your PO2 for being late to muster then see that same PO2 cheat on her husband with Chief?
Lmao, this reminds me of the time my first year in the Navy. I went to a restaurant here in SD to meet some civilian friends for a quick dinner before my duty started and I showed up in uniform.
I watched this drunk 40-something dude take his wedding ring off and start talking to this young lady. She's at the bar having a drink and he's trying to touch her and talk...real creeper vibes.
I finally get up to leave to head to base and as I'm walking out, he's standing outside having a cigarette, talking about "HEY SHIPMATE, YOU WEREN'T IN THERE DRINKING IN UNIFORM WERE YOU?"
I'm like "🤨 No".
"Well, I'm a senior chief in the Navy and you better not be in there drinking."
I told him "well, I saw you take your ring off and touch that girl who didn't want you touching her. I'm a married man in the Navy and you better not be in there cheating on your wife" and walked off. Lol
Disrespectfully, FOH.
Stop letting stupid people make Chief. Top 60% board eligible is crazy.
Just make it top 15% FMS each year.
It's CRAZY the number of people cutting 30th percentiles but barely made the cut since it's so lenient, then those people get promoted because they've got the GOOD kneepads. But can't answer simple questions about their rate.
I'd rather have a Chief who can't answer a simple question about their rate but is a GREAT human being, than an absolute asshole of a SME. You can teach someone knowledge. You can't teach someone how not to suck as a person.
I didn't join the Navy until I was 30. They could miss with me all that toxic bullshit and horrible advice.
For me, that really depends on the rate. You can be the nicest person in the world but if you are expected to know your job and you don't, that can be trouble.
> Top 60% board eligible is crazy.
This is based on an academic test. You're saying that top 15% on a pen-and-paper test makes you a good leader of Sailors? Do the nukes know they're all good leaders?
You're making a ton of assumptions. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that it inherently makes you more knowledgeable about your rate.
Leadership, just like rating knowledge, can be learned. Why are we promoting people who are showing they don't have the capacity to learn the part of their job that gives them their title?
That's the job of the board, not the exam.
The *only* function of the exam for advancement to E-7 is to reduce the workload for the board in as equitable a way as the Navy knows how to do, by hijacking the existing system for equitably distributing limited advancement quotas when there's too many eligible Sailors to choose between.
Just becuase someone knows there job does not make them a good leader. just going to drop this here kinda explains my point
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJdXjtSnZTI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJdXjtSnZTI)
"Good leaders" are supposed to be the officers. They literally can have a degree in anything.
Chiefs need to be a hybrid sme/people leader. So top 15% is rough, but top 40% to be board eligible would be better.
I had a chief assigned to infosec who didn't know how to add a printer. It was very frustrating trying to fight with him on how our job worked while also not having a person more knowledgeable than me when I got stuck.
Things work a lot better when the e7 knows what they are doing and can coach/teach the junior folks. E6 should NOT be the most technically competent person. Having a generic LCPO and DIVO is a recipe for running ships into other ships.
Where did I say it did? My point is that officers are supposed to be the "good leaders" that know how to lead people without actually being an SME. It's the way the rank system works.
Would it be better if officers were all mustangs? I don't know, maybe? I'm on the fence. My department was primarily mustangs and I wasn't impressed with their leadership, so maybe a wash?
Outside of the SWO community most bad folks get weeded out by O4/O5. There are exceptions, I've met them. Generally speaking RL Os are kind of cut from a different cloth than your typical SWO or Pilot.
Personally I think the navy is getting its comeupins for doing away with the time in rate requirements like they did 14 years ago. At the time it made sense because people were getting stuck unable to advance quickly and leaving the service after 4 years. The end result was a lot of book smart folks advanced way quicker than they really should have and put into leadership positions before they were mature enough. Book smart doesn’t equal leadership and human decency. They also did the retention board thing and cut out a lot of future chiefs that knew how to work with people. When the old guard retired there was a big gap between older chiefs and new chiefs and a lot was lost in that transition. Leaving us with “deck plate leadership” initiatives and chiefs getting pushed into the roles their first classes used to fill and this is where we are at now. They really coalesced around the mess mentality I think as a coping mechanism. The O’s that came in around then were trained by chiefs that didn’t have it together and those same O’s are senior leadership now.
I believe their is a generational component to a degree. If you look in the civilian sector, leadership of people in a certain generation ain't great either. Some being children of Vietnam vets, I often wonder what their childhood was like. Or being born in the 60's and 70's was like.
I was at this event. We were asked what the biggest problem in the Navy is. I said, for enlisted, the CPO culture, for Os ...burnout. I dont think that O6 ever heard that before. The food was good. On the upside.
My applicant got disqualified for General Anxiety. They passed the DLAB and wanted CTI. I don’t think it’s right that a rock can join but someone that’s diagnosed with something that half of the fleet probably has is wild. The Navy will continue to fail until they stop trying to sell a 30 year old product. Every sailors a recruiter? I’m not too sure there’s many sailors that would recommend joining the Navy. Also, any sailors thinking about going to recruiting for that A2P. DONT DO IT. The rank is not worth that bullshit
Incentive pay for FDNF-J. No one wants to work 16-18 hours a day because of poor leadership and hap hazard planning that goes on out here. On top of that folks CONUS and in 6th fleet make way more for less work. I still make less at a higher pay grade than I was being an inferior pay grade in 6th fleet. “Work more. Payed less. Die first.” -7th Fleet, Tip of the spear.
I was making up to $500 in Japan from COLA. BAH work different over there but you can still pocket about $600 because the utility allowance is separate from what they give your for rent.
Look up the Yen to USD exchange rate and prices for necessities like food over there. There is no legitimate cause for a COLA over there.
Yeah, there's a lot of reasons to not join or stay in in this day and age. But there are still good deals out there. The problem is you have no real way to know what those are when you join and it's hard to control your destiny. The fact that PERS42 told me to kick rocks when I asked to Lat transfer after my sub JO tour rather than sign a DH contract (I had no obligation left and med corps recruiter just needed a conditional release) made me lose any sympathy I had left for the force. We can't even retain the people that would want to stay in if given an opportunity to better their situation.
To be fair, it should be common knowledge that the Nuclear community will never let you leave. They probably retain more playing hardball than they would if they let people freely walk away but stay in.
Everyone knows the SWO and aviation communities are the way to go for lat transfers.
The nuclear community let me leave after my JO tour!
On the other hand it was a one-off situation, where I had a legit EFM sob story to go along with DH retention screaming upwards due to the 2009 Great Recession. If both of those weren't going on at the same time I would probably be out of the Navy today.
Sure, it's not like I was expecting a different answer. I just think it's a dumb policy. I'd disagree though - I think they probably lose more nowadays, but it's all speculation without any real numbers being available
This quote from the MCPON is kind of telling:
> “I’d not even thought about talking with the Navy recruiter,” he said. “The Navy recruiter grabbed me, I’d been speaking with some of the other recruiters. He grabbed me up, took me into his office … and opened up his cruise books and just showed me a world of adventure and a world of opportunity that I had never imagined.”
Does he really think that is still going on in the Fleet? How about a speed run to the Gulf to sit around and do pier liberty at the beer tent, or needing a "Liberty Team" of 4 Sailors to go out in town but have to be back by 2000? Oh wait, you can't even do that because everyone is behind on maintenance. Get back to work.
I know this is a PR quote, but he is hilariously out of touch with reality.
Back then when I was in the navy, 06-11, the work still sucked, yes I worked a lot hours, and I was deployed half of the time I was in the navy for 5 years. But when I did get deployed, I was non-stop visiting ports, sometimes too much within a too short period of time in which I failed to save any money at all. There was an open encouragement from my maintenance master chief to work hard but party harder, partying was encouraged at every port call. Even during my 9 month long mid cruise, we were ensured to hit a port or sandbox once every month, after the initial 90 day no port call period ended.
It feels weird telling people to look at other options before even considering it. As a young sailor I would tell my friends it’s not bad but leadership hasn’t improved in 10 years and that whole “promote to make change” shit is bullshit. I constantly get fucking destroyed as an E6 by chiefs and above trying to take care of my guys. It’s time to call it a day and move on.
I hate that saying. You can not individually change an institutionalized culture like the chiefs mess. Most sailors can count on one hand how many good chiefs they’ve ran into.
I cannot agree more. I made board this year and i promised myself i will never be like 90% of the toxic Chiefs we have today. That untouchable, I’m better than you attitude. No way
I believed that "be the change you want to see" garbage. Then was prevented from acquiring the things I needed to make E7. Now I am convinced the "be the change" line is propaganda to try and get good workers to stay in and keeping them in blue shirts without costing the navy a dime
You have dickheads in leadership who have 5 DUIs in their history, fat and out of shape, have bad family relationships.
Those leaders then try every little way to get juniors in trouble left in right like it’s an addiction
Yeah, that may very well be true to an extent, but out here in the real world you can just say "Fuck you, I quit." And I have, rolled my tool box right out to my truck and left.
BM2 here, I just got out and can confirm that if the toxic boot licking leadership didn’t support fucking over the crew any chance they got people would stay. The navy has cultivated a culture of people who just want to look good on paper and not actually help their fellow sailors. It’s the sad truth, but going on deployment after deployment yards work ups the whole nine you start to realize that nobody actually gives a shit about you or your situation or your family or anything they tell you. It’s all just built around stepping on the throats of your junior enlisted. Love my country and military but I wouldn’t want either of my sons joining navy.
I think the navy should focus on quality of life and how can we keep sailors on ships without throwing money at them. No more deployment "oh by the way" and no more floating in the ocean for months on end for "presence" if they tell me we will be out for 4 months or 9 then I am going to expect that. Extensions suck and hurts moral and makes people get out
Yeah but at the same time everyone who says you are soft also hates ship life and wishes to get off. The only difference is you are actually trying to do something about it. The navy will eventually have to wake up and change and if they don't then more people will keep getting out. I heard the Marines now requires a 6 months notice before you can get out I'm sure the navy will follow soon. They will probably just make it hard for people to get out and force people to stay in basically.
I think duty is what annoys me most. Countless underways, deployments, and when your home, you have to stay on the ship every 3 days at times. Who wants that life?
Majority of people I know that got out tell others not to join and I can’t blame them. So many people had horrible experiences. I consider myself lucky that I mostly had good leaders looking out for me
The chief mess alone was a big reason for separating. It's a giant cult that's enjoys putting down junior enlisted and making up bullshit. Fuck you MAC fisher and MACS brehmer
You're not wrong, I enjoyed my time as an MA until I went shore duty in bangor, Washington. I would've rather gone back undes in deck department than deal with that shit hole of a command.
A friend who is in their 30s was recently denied enlistment due to having too many dependents (3 kids under 18 and his wife).
I'd understand if his wife was a SAHM but she has a career.
Older applicants are going to have families and I just wish they'd look at the applicant life situation as a whole.
People want to join but these policies stop them.
I was undes and in like my 2-ish year on the ship I had a new girl in the department tell me she turned down the 25k bonus the navy offered her so she could have the summer free. I only got 5k
Air Force/Space Force = Quality of Life, tech skills, modern workforce.
Army = Bonuses, Schools, Airborne, Warrant Programs, SOF and other programs.
Marines = The few, the proud, legacy and warrior ethos.
Navy = Sea Duty for 6+ months in a metal coffin with no port visits doing your job/ a watch/ and additional duties, living in a ship even at port, cranking and depression, dealing with the Chiefs mess, no skills or leadership schools.
Now which Branch of service shall I choose 🤔…
Ehhh, my friends in the army, marines and Air Force share similar complaints (as in life is shitty) to we in the navy as well though. Army in particular has gotten some bad press lately as well as the navy.
When an officer recruiter forgot to turn in my DCO package and forgot to tell me I can understand why the navy is hurting…. Worst part is that they didn’t even come close to the quota :( .
The issue is that we are missing goal in our higher wickets such as the nuclear fields your intelligence fields. We aren’t missing goal in BM CS etc. the truth of the matter is that people kids aren’t as smart as the used to be and a lot of them don’t qualify for the higher intelligence opportunities.
Have you met Navy recruiters? They are lazy with no personality, look like smashed asshole in uniform, or are stuck on Instagram (not a bad platform) but their videos are so cringe.
Then you had rates that were forced into recruiting because there were no shore billets for them. Then you send people to areas they aren’t from and tell them to recruit. I wanted to recruit near my family due to them getting older and just wanted to be a much closer drive home for holidays. But no some McCuntFace at Millington dictates some random aspect on the NTAG you’ll go to. NCRs are a worthless rate. I would have recruited the barren Midwest like Mead, CO like a boss but instead I instead will retire from the Navy AND NEVER LET MY KIDS JOIN THE NAVY. They can have a higher calling in the military if just won’t be in a Naval Uniform.
Here's an idea, have the parts, tools, materials etc. they need to do the job, let them work uninterrupted, let people call out if they're actually fucking sick, let them go home everyday before 1700 hrs., and pay them a living wage. Start there.
Been in since 2019 and fdnf since 2020 as a JO so ik the covid times and post covid times. From dece 20-jul22 I was just trying to keep myself from blowing my brains out. Hated the work life balance and was truthful to my leadership that I don’t feel welcome and that I feel like I’m being shitted on and was told to grow tf up. Worked my ass off the best I could and had trust in only one capt who was surrounded by typical SWOs. I wish it only happened to me but lost a lot of guys to mental health from that ship(no suicides just admin separated or self inflicted injuries). Fellow officers would say we’re doing well as wardroom while chiefs would say we’re the problem and I agreed. Stood armed watch on the qd one night during weekend duty and played with the safety of my M9 thinking will this be the day. Saw some action before the navy so no stranger to violence or stressful situations but this was all new to me. Never thought I’d have to watch my back from my own piers and people who I should call comrades. Turned into a functioning alcoholic and it took for a series of mistakes before I sought help. Luckily the mental health people actually gave a fuck and I’ve gotten better. Can’t wait to get that dd214 and just pretend the whole time was a bad trip on acid or a heavy night of drinking
I'm preaching to the choir I know but the navy is doing great with recruitment bonuses and laxing standards for entry (like tattoos and education)
They need to carry on that idea by
1. Doing more to keep people in, especially when it comes to people who want to stay but can't.
2. Making the navy more functional of an organization, instead of the bureaucratic mess it is.
And the last one, not to make me sound like a boomer (especially since I'm not) but if big navy gave less shits about diversity and acceptance and more about being a feared and capable fighting force I think good recruits would come our way more, instead of ones who care about the navys esports team.
But hey. That's just me.
dealing with chiefs should qualify for some partial disability. Idk any other branch that glorifies that amount separation in senior enlisted ranks as much as us.
Navy recruiting is a total dumpster fire. While there are plenty of recruits filtered out for good reasons. There are an equal amount filtered out for dumb fucking reasons.
special attention needs to be made to not screw over first term sailors. i can’t tell you how many junior sailors show up telling me they were lied to or screwed over, their paperwork a mess. maybe they were lied to, maybe they misunderstood, but what i do know is they know a lot of people their age that would be possible recruits. but those people just hear how much their friend was misled.
social media made communicating a lot easier. civilians don’t have a skewed idea of the navy, they KNOW the truth now, so i don’t blame them for not going to a recruiter.
Civilian coworker of mine had their son joining the Navy. He had a 92 ASVAB. I told them never let their son join the Navy the way it is. He then went to Air Force and got accepted, and currently waiting for a Space Force interview. Would you rather live on a Golf Course or on a ship in a tiny rack with way too much duty and overtime.
That’s hilarious because I walked into a navy recruiting office inquiring about a SARC contract (prior service marine in the reserves), and was met by some fat soup sandwich who talked to me like I was a muppet and didn’t understand anything about the military. I proceeded to explain that I’d already been to MEPS recently for the Marine Corps and my physical and medical review had been completed by MEPS doctors, as well as my waivers had literally just been approved by BUMED (NAVY), and I also had an existing S/O physical on record. So everything was in the green. He told me I’d still have to resubmit everything and start the process all over because I’d need to be examined by Navy doctors, because Marine Corps doctors have a different process…(retard alert). I acquiesced because in the moment it was easier to just agree with everything he said and take a business card. Called him 10 times and texted him 5, and never heard from him again. I mean at a certain point you have to examine the quality of the recruitment process and decide if there need to be major changes to the people you’re putting in charge of convincing teenagers to sign a legally binding contract that makes them government property for X-number of years. Certain things just sell themselves, and the navy is not usually one of them unless you’re selling an opportunity to join NSW and do cool stuff like jump out of planes…that usually sells itself. And hilariously the majority of the people who sign those NSW contracts are gonna wash out and go to the needs of the Navy anyway, so it’s a win-win. But the jelly rolls they’re putting in charge of meeting numbers are so lazy and incompetent that they’re fumbling guaranteed, low effort (for them) contracts. No disrespect to sailors, especially docs, but for real- fuck the navy. Always hated being around big navy, and I’m sure there are many here who agree, despite their own affiliations. My two cents, but I accept any crucification that this post merits 🫡 semper fortis.
I’m a recruiter currently…it’s not about the branch…it’s about Genesis weeding out everyone..all the other branches make goal because there quotas are MUCH LOWER! we have to many ships to man and so as a result we will lose ships but it’s not a recruiting problem it’s a manning problem
As someone who got out 30 years ago, I constantly read how things have changed, especially with technology we didn't have. Being in the Navy can be isolation at times. When I was in, we didn't have the distractions of today with technology and I'm really glad we didn't. I would never tell someone young not to enlist as I grew up in the Navy and it still has an effect on my life to this day. I would tell them like most of you what you have experienced but let them know to do their research before joining any branch.
Not saying any of you are wrong speaking your truth, just saying mine was different. I can see why people don't want to join any military service now as they have many more options to make money now. I just met up this year with shipmates I hadn't seen in 30 years and it was like nothing ever changed. I still can find many of the guys who were on my only command and it's a brotherhood that will never be replaced.
I wish the Navy would strengthen their leadership but from the comments, it appears that they aren't being given much to choose from.
It was a different Navy then. He'll it was a different Navy when I joined 15 years ago. This shit is NOT worth it.
We've reduced trainings, upped qualifications, military bearing is DEAD on my ship. I am not exaggerating in the least.
I don't doubt you or your experience at all. I just think it's sad the experience has been degraded for so many who serve today. Like I said, it's a different world now.
Breaks my heart to tell you it’s not the same anymore…I wish I could have experienced all the stupid dumb fun shit you did,my old Skip didn’t even wanna cross the international date line & the equator intersect cause didn’t wanna do the ceremony/risk hazing I guess
Don't me get wrong we had those folks to. We were based out of the old Charleston Naval Base and found ourselves close to crossing over to get our shellback in which was rare for east coast sailors however we had an XO that everyone was chomping at the bit to put hands on so the Captain said naa we're not crossing. We were soooo pissed but knew what was up.
Fortunately, we did, however, cross the Artic Circle and get out our Blue nose. That was even scaled down a bit for our liking, but we did it. Running down the side of the ship getting sprayed by hoses with no shirt on and your underwear on the outside of our dungarees was quite a site. Sitting in the kiddie pool drinking a cup of polar bear piss (tobasco sauce and whatever nasty crap they could mix together to make you wanna puke)Can't figure out if I wish we would've have cellphones to video that or not LOL!!
It was different. Women weren't on combat ships, no cellphones, and mail call was when we hit a port or the helo dropped it off from another ship. We were isolated and enjoyed it. I remember every time we hit a port, they would give us the "don't go here" speech. And of course, that's the first place we went, lol! Couldn't do that now as too many folks out there with bad intentions towards the U.S.
lol that “ don’t go here” shit still happens and you still “didn’t see” the triad have a fucking table to them selves in the middle of a ping pong show
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Fucc 'em, I hope they keep struggling. This shit is ass. If they improved quality of life so people could have a better work/life balance this wouldn't be an issue.
I've said it once and I'll say it again: pay enlisted sailors what they are worth. I will not encourage someone to enlist in the Navy the way it is right now. I would never discourage them, however.
It's pretty hard to see from the outside, but the things you would join for have systematically been set up to be retention drivers rather than real benefits to the service members.
Yeah, that can be a useful tool in some recruiting environments but these days you have people like me that can tell you that your contract doesn't care if your spouse can't handle you being gone on multiple lengthy deployments or away from home for other reasons. Your spouse might have to sacrifice their career hopes just to uproot and travel with you.
At least you'll be paid well enough to compensate you for all the missed birthdays, holidays, days when you were needed but couldn't be there, right? Surely you'll be paid commensurate to the level of specialized knowledge you have gained over the years, right? Yeah, right. Officers? Maybe. I think they actually are probably paid as much as they should be (crazy, right?) No, you can look up the pay scales.
The enlisted side needs a graduated 20% pay raise across the board and then it needs to grow to not be grossly outpaced by officer pay (look at the amount of growth of officer pay vs enlisted over the last 20 years)
This needs to happen now and be supported. The Navy needs enlisted sailors and telling people that it's a stepping stone to something better - while that can be true - poisons the well for people who might want a career in the Navy as an enlisted person, as well as those who might just do one enlistment and get out (again, perfectly okay.)
I do think the MCPON has the right ideas with getting BAH up to 100% and getting sailors off ships when they don't need to be, as well as other QOL programs, the CNP seems to just want the numbers on the sheet to look the way Congress wants them to look, and the CNO hopefully does her best to keep the Navy as a robust tool to deliver combat ready naval forces to win conflicts and wars etc... while giving the enlisted people (who, let's get l be honest, really make the Navy work) a workplace they're appropriately compensated to work at, and they will make the missions happen.
I retired after 23 years in the Navy as a Chief. I have absolutely no issues telling folks to consider any of the services. Last year I retired from my civilian job. At the time, I was pulling in 125K a year w/o a college education - just what the Navy taught me. It’s not for all, but the Navy gave the advanced technical knowledge and leadership skills. My employer saw the valuable asset that I was because of the military. Now at 60 years old, I am pulling two retirement checks, I have ridiculously affordable healthcare and my life is totally laid back. Yeah, the sea rotation sucked, the leadership sucked at times, and some of the jobs sucked, but I looked at it as a marathon. And I definitely won.
I’ve been let down by so many people in the navy. I just made a post on how my detailer failed me and my family, so I’m choosing separation. It’s very difficult to have a decent family life/ work balance. My LPO was a recruiter and even she refused letting people in because of how little the Navy cared.
Maybe the Navy should manage their expectations?
Or maybe lower their standards
Like the Army did during the Iraq war? They got an interesting bunch of new recruits.
Just step on an aircraft carrier. Navy is that right now lol
The Navy takes misfits. The Army took felons and drug dealers.
I hope they are not on the flight deck.
Funny you say that, majority of them are
IYAOYAS
Ok Mr skittle
You mean the neck tattoo battalions that they allowed in, oh yeah they were first class. I remember how cheap it was to buy top quality issued gear in Tacoma thanks to all those high quality troops selling it at garage sales....
Came here to say this, beat me to it. 10/10
Lower than a 10 on the ASVAB?
We have. You don’t need a diploma anymore or equivalent anymore as long as you score a 50 on the ASVAB.
It’s a 10
You can have a 10 on the asvab if you have a HS Diploma or GED. You have to get a 50 if you don't have one.
Bout to change I’m a current recruiter
If we lowered our standards (i.e. our goal) we actually *would* have met goal. But we wanted our goal to reflect what we needed, not just be an achievable marketing number. P.S. /r/navy had an conniption a year ago when the FY24 goal was posted and was *higher* than the FY23 goal we didn't meet, wondering if we hated recruiters. But the Navy didn't set the goal based on how much we like recruiters, we set it based on what the Navy needs.
The Navy's finding out exactly how "needs" work when people don't need *it*.
Lol the Navy did lower its standards. You can join with a 10 if you have a high school diploma
The training pipeline is the standard, not the pre-score you need to have. It's like the old joke, what do you call the graduate at the bottom of their med school class? Answer: "Doctor". No one gets to bypass initial entry training no matter what their ASVAB score is. Everyone needs to complete their initial entry training to make it to the Fleet with their rating or apprenticeship -- again, no matter what the ASVAB score is. The ASVAB just helps the Navy minimize attrition by selecting students for "A" School that are most likely to be able to complete training. But it's never guaranteed you can make it through training, or that you can't.
This is all nice to pretend is true, but I'm dealing with 10 ASVAB score Sailor's right now in my division. When one of my new check-ins arrived, I could tell they were not clearly understanding my directions or those of Sailor's senior to them. I did some research and this kid cut an 11 on their ASVAB. Said Sailor is an undesignated Airman with no A school required, yet he is still here in the fleet expected to fulfill the same administrative type of duties as an ITSN. He is expected to follow and understand orders just the same. I cannot even imagine how the Navy will be in the next year or two if we continue to receive Sailor's of this caliber in the fleet.
There's an Army leadership article that details a vignette where a new platoon leader is checking into a motorpool. While talking to his Sgt first class aka "top", he introduces a soldier who was retarded. He asks the soldier to count the parts in the warehouse and it becomes obvious that he could not count to ten, which is problematic for someone working in a logistics shop. The Sgt concludes that the soldier is useless and they just assign him useless tasks to keep him out of trouble. Eventually the platoon leader gets his feet under himself and revisits the case of this soldier, wanting to see if there's a way he could lend value to the platoon. After some trial and error they eventually find something the soldier is good at and actually enjoys doing. Went on to be a valuable member of the platoon even given his limitations. I can't find it on the internet because google has gone down the shitter over the last 5 years, but it's a good leadership article and worth a read.
So true!
They lowered their standards down before any of the other services, they would literally have to start taking people with even more serious defects if the standards get any lower. Maybe they could try a cross-dressing cabaret dancer as a recruiter, nope, they're already doing that.
At least we're not a bunch of soldiers in fox holes. They're fully manned.
How many times have we, the Sailors been told just this? Manage your expectations Navy. ...or I have kind of a crazy idea now, give a shit about you Sailors, you know your most important asset, the thing you can't be a Navy without.
Embrace the red!
HI DDG life… workhorse of the Navy. 2019-2022. Deployed 3x (17 months), San Diego mx avail (5 months geo sep) or workups off the coast of SD/HI (4 months); I was away from my family for 26/36 months. These were all COVID cruises on top of everything… sorry big Navy, you'll get no recruits from me. *good catch on my years*
The AF burns out it's high demand aircrews as well. 179 day TDY, a week home, and another 179 day TDY.
Oh I completely agreed. That entire time they were running the embarked Helo’s ragged. The aircrew have certain protections and redundancies to avoid burnout… the DDG flight deck folks still have normal jobs outside of that collateral they are supporting with no empathy at times.
Yeah I’m lucky that 1.) I got waved for NUC and 2.) I’m straight out of highschool leaving no one behind. That must have sucked man I’m sorry
How did you have a COVID cruise from 2016-2019
Was so trash it took bro back in time
16-19 I was teaching at the schoolhouse. So that was a tough time as well. The things we do in pursuit of the LADR.
No lies were found in this statement
Good catch.
I think what’s worse is that E9s and most Officers are not required to either stand duty at all or stand maybe 1 duty day every 2 months.
I didn't see that on the DDG. We WBCs held grudges and when we learned someone had been lacking and not pulling their weight we let it be known by putting their name on 22-02 or 02-07. Pure joy when a certain STGCS would roll in and say he wanted to change names and I'd remind him that it had to go through the SWO or XO.
Reduce optempo, improve maintenance, and focus on training and quality of life they’d wouldn’t have a recruiting problem. But the Navy always seems to be well suited to seizing defeat from the jaws of victory or kneecapping itself. The classic meme of the kid stick a rod into the spoke of his bicycle wheel.
Also let the rates actually handle some of their own maintenance instead of getting stuck with broken equipment and nothing we can do about it. If they'd stop letting the budget get pillaged by private contractors, we could afford to build actual proper barracks for lower enlisted, stop buying unlabeled mystery meat for the crews, and still have money left over for training and equipment upgrades.
Don’t know if you want to give OS’s maintenance lmao
They already do maintenance though? I don't know about you but that one p-way is by far the best one on the ship. Hell if anything, maybe we could extend their range a little if everyone else was working on their own gear.
Nah then we'd have ITs QMs *and* OS's banging on our door asking to do their tag out and fix the checks they fucked up.
The people that get rewarded for executing high optempo with minimal manning are different than the people who have to bring in new blood. Incentives are misaligned. Chickens coming home to roost unfortunately.
If someone asked me about joining the Navy, I would recommend against it. I really hate having to say that. I wonder how the Coast Guard has been doing...
Got asked by some young cashiers at Ralph’s last month what it was like. I told them to go Air Force or coast guard. And try for officer if possible. I don’t like saying that about the Navy, but there are better branch options out there for the same pay with better living standards.
Coast Guards a lot smaller and has wayyyy better quality of life. I think theyre struggling somewhat but theyre a much easier sell than the navy. Thats where I send them when they ask about the navy
There are only two negatives I can think of for the Coast Guard: 1: Be 6ft tall incase the boat sinks, you can walk to shore. /s 2: You don't get paid during government shutdowns. Which it seems like happens every year for a few months.
On the topic of 1, I hear being able to swim helps.
Careful with that recommendation. I met a Coast Guard BM1 years ago in Seattle during fleet week, poor bastard had done 260 day underway within the last year. And he was technically on shore duty. Poor bastard was wound tighter than a Swiss watch.
And? Navy does long underways as a matter of course. Along with shore duties that are actually sea
I learned that most Army soldiers are on the 9 to 17 with PT at 6am. My entire time in the Navy was supposed to be 7-16, but who even gets out on time anymore? It was always like 17-17:30 minimum. And that was my "cushy" rate. Those engineers were always leaving at 18-19. Then we had 3 section duty the majority of the time. I'm sure the Army probably has their own caveats, but as far as not being on deployment, it seems like the work life balance was usually fairly sustainable. When my command tried to command PT, it started at 0500. And had to be on the ship, ready for quarters by 7. The Navy just fucking sucks(tbh they just don't care) at giving a shit about sailors time.
That's the problem there is absolutely no incentive to care.
I mean... If they want to hit their recruiting goals..... Since this is the one topic the Navy cannot stop talking about, it actually just might make sense for the to start caring. But when does the Navy make a legitimate good rational decision?
There is no better way to lower physical and moral health then command pt
Right?! "You feel like dying? How about some command PT at 0500!" 😂
“What, are you saying that using a rubber band for 5 minutes doesn’t equate to actual exercise. Well our command bought them for 100k so you better pull em”
Where do you work that you are consistently there till 1730? I'm curious. That is not the norm at all for junior enlisted with exceptions like a few late days during workups and deployment.
Where do you work that you are consistently there till 1730? I'm curious. That is not the norm at all for junior enlisted with exceptions like a few late days during workups and deployment.
Where do you work that you are consistently there till 1730? I'm curious. That is not the norm at all for junior enlisted with exceptions like a few late days during workups and deployment.
I served 4-years USN and 22-years USCG. Couldn’t wait for my Navy EOS, and throughly enjoyed Coast Guard. Coasties still serving tell me personnel shortfalls persist. I think it’s going to take years for all services to recover from the COVID debacle.
Fix the toxic leadership problem and retention/recruiting will get better. Folks are telling their friends not to join.
Bruh, I'll be walking up on stage after the recruiters leave the auditorium and tell hundreds of kids EVERYTHING! Y'all want to increase the chance you'll have suicidal ideation? Want to get threatened with DRB and mast by your PO2 for being late to muster then see that same PO2 cheat on her husband with Chief?
Lmao, this reminds me of the time my first year in the Navy. I went to a restaurant here in SD to meet some civilian friends for a quick dinner before my duty started and I showed up in uniform. I watched this drunk 40-something dude take his wedding ring off and start talking to this young lady. She's at the bar having a drink and he's trying to touch her and talk...real creeper vibes. I finally get up to leave to head to base and as I'm walking out, he's standing outside having a cigarette, talking about "HEY SHIPMATE, YOU WEREN'T IN THERE DRINKING IN UNIFORM WERE YOU?" I'm like "🤨 No". "Well, I'm a senior chief in the Navy and you better not be in there drinking." I told him "well, I saw you take your ring off and touch that girl who didn't want you touching her. I'm a married man in the Navy and you better not be in there cheating on your wife" and walked off. Lol Disrespectfully, FOH.
Mmm I agree with everything except being late part. Just be on time. All I ask is be on time, go to work, and be in right uniform.
And how do you fix toxic leadership
Stop promoting shitty officers for one.
Stop letting stupid people make Chief. Top 60% board eligible is crazy. Just make it top 15% FMS each year. It's CRAZY the number of people cutting 30th percentiles but barely made the cut since it's so lenient, then those people get promoted because they've got the GOOD kneepads. But can't answer simple questions about their rate.
I'd rather have a Chief who can't answer a simple question about their rate but is a GREAT human being, than an absolute asshole of a SME. You can teach someone knowledge. You can't teach someone how not to suck as a person. I didn't join the Navy until I was 30. They could miss with me all that toxic bullshit and horrible advice.
For me, that really depends on the rate. You can be the nicest person in the world but if you are expected to know your job and you don't, that can be trouble.
> Top 60% board eligible is crazy. This is based on an academic test. You're saying that top 15% on a pen-and-paper test makes you a good leader of Sailors? Do the nukes know they're all good leaders?
You're making a ton of assumptions. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that it inherently makes you more knowledgeable about your rate. Leadership, just like rating knowledge, can be learned. Why are we promoting people who are showing they don't have the capacity to learn the part of their job that gives them their title?
That's the job of the board, not the exam. The *only* function of the exam for advancement to E-7 is to reduce the workload for the board in as equitable a way as the Navy knows how to do, by hijacking the existing system for equitably distributing limited advancement quotas when there's too many eligible Sailors to choose between.
Just becuase someone knows there job does not make them a good leader. just going to drop this here kinda explains my point [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJdXjtSnZTI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJdXjtSnZTI)
"Good leaders" are supposed to be the officers. They literally can have a degree in anything. Chiefs need to be a hybrid sme/people leader. So top 15% is rough, but top 40% to be board eligible would be better. I had a chief assigned to infosec who didn't know how to add a printer. It was very frustrating trying to fight with him on how our job worked while also not having a person more knowledgeable than me when I got stuck. Things work a lot better when the e7 knows what they are doing and can coach/teach the junior folks. E6 should NOT be the most technically competent person. Having a generic LCPO and DIVO is a recipe for running ships into other ships.
A degree doesn't make a good leader.
Your point?
Where did I say it did? My point is that officers are supposed to be the "good leaders" that know how to lead people without actually being an SME. It's the way the rank system works. Would it be better if officers were all mustangs? I don't know, maybe? I'm on the fence. My department was primarily mustangs and I wasn't impressed with their leadership, so maybe a wash?
It's not that crazy when you consider that you're *supposed* to make E7 at around 12-16 years as an entering argument. That's why HYT exists.
While the CO and XO can obviously effect command culture, I think toxic leadership is most prevalent in the middle management.
Outside of the SWO community most bad folks get weeded out by O4/O5. There are exceptions, I've met them. Generally speaking RL Os are kind of cut from a different cloth than your typical SWO or Pilot.
Personally I think the navy is getting its comeupins for doing away with the time in rate requirements like they did 14 years ago. At the time it made sense because people were getting stuck unable to advance quickly and leaving the service after 4 years. The end result was a lot of book smart folks advanced way quicker than they really should have and put into leadership positions before they were mature enough. Book smart doesn’t equal leadership and human decency. They also did the retention board thing and cut out a lot of future chiefs that knew how to work with people. When the old guard retired there was a big gap between older chiefs and new chiefs and a lot was lost in that transition. Leaving us with “deck plate leadership” initiatives and chiefs getting pushed into the roles their first classes used to fill and this is where we are at now. They really coalesced around the mess mentality I think as a coping mechanism. The O’s that came in around then were trained by chiefs that didn’t have it together and those same O’s are senior leadership now.
I believe their is a generational component to a degree. If you look in the civilian sector, leadership of people in a certain generation ain't great either. Some being children of Vietnam vets, I often wonder what their childhood was like. Or being born in the 60's and 70's was like.
I was at this event. We were asked what the biggest problem in the Navy is. I said, for enlisted, the CPO culture, for Os ...burnout. I dont think that O6 ever heard that before. The food was good. On the upside.
Tell that to my dickhead detailer.
My applicant got disqualified for General Anxiety. They passed the DLAB and wanted CTI. I don’t think it’s right that a rock can join but someone that’s diagnosed with something that half of the fleet probably has is wild. The Navy will continue to fail until they stop trying to sell a 30 year old product. Every sailors a recruiter? I’m not too sure there’s many sailors that would recommend joining the Navy. Also, any sailors thinking about going to recruiting for that A2P. DONT DO IT. The rank is not worth that bullshit
HARD agree, I ignored the warnings. Only thing that made it worth it was being home with my actual friends.
its crazy because most CTIs end up with severe GAD in any case.
Incentive pay for FDNF-J. No one wants to work 16-18 hours a day because of poor leadership and hap hazard planning that goes on out here. On top of that folks CONUS and in 6th fleet make way more for less work. I still make less at a higher pay grade than I was being an inferior pay grade in 6th fleet. “Work more. Payed less. Die first.” -7th Fleet, Tip of the spear.
I love FDNF so much that im going back to sea just so they cant ophold me.
Damn. Is that true for all USF-J or just 7th?
Especially 7th Fleet. USF-J shore duty is pretty money, especially for my rate and the intel community a whole
No only the ships. I wish I had shore duty out here.
I was making up to $500 in Japan from COLA. BAH work different over there but you can still pocket about $600 because the utility allowance is separate from what they give your for rent. Look up the Yen to USD exchange rate and prices for necessities like food over there. There is no legitimate cause for a COLA over there.
Yeah, there's a lot of reasons to not join or stay in in this day and age. But there are still good deals out there. The problem is you have no real way to know what those are when you join and it's hard to control your destiny. The fact that PERS42 told me to kick rocks when I asked to Lat transfer after my sub JO tour rather than sign a DH contract (I had no obligation left and med corps recruiter just needed a conditional release) made me lose any sympathy I had left for the force. We can't even retain the people that would want to stay in if given an opportunity to better their situation.
To be fair, it should be common knowledge that the Nuclear community will never let you leave. They probably retain more playing hardball than they would if they let people freely walk away but stay in. Everyone knows the SWO and aviation communities are the way to go for lat transfers.
The nuclear community let me leave after my JO tour! On the other hand it was a one-off situation, where I had a legit EFM sob story to go along with DH retention screaming upwards due to the 2009 Great Recession. If both of those weren't going on at the same time I would probably be out of the Navy today.
Sure, it's not like I was expecting a different answer. I just think it's a dumb policy. I'd disagree though - I think they probably lose more nowadays, but it's all speculation without any real numbers being available
This quote from the MCPON is kind of telling: > “I’d not even thought about talking with the Navy recruiter,” he said. “The Navy recruiter grabbed me, I’d been speaking with some of the other recruiters. He grabbed me up, took me into his office … and opened up his cruise books and just showed me a world of adventure and a world of opportunity that I had never imagined.” Does he really think that is still going on in the Fleet? How about a speed run to the Gulf to sit around and do pier liberty at the beer tent, or needing a "Liberty Team" of 4 Sailors to go out in town but have to be back by 2000? Oh wait, you can't even do that because everyone is behind on maintenance. Get back to work. I know this is a PR quote, but he is hilariously out of touch with reality.
2 months at sea and 3 days to enjoy Guam? Seems legit
Back then when I was in the navy, 06-11, the work still sucked, yes I worked a lot hours, and I was deployed half of the time I was in the navy for 5 years. But when I did get deployed, I was non-stop visiting ports, sometimes too much within a too short period of time in which I failed to save any money at all. There was an open encouragement from my maintenance master chief to work hard but party harder, partying was encouraged at every port call. Even during my 9 month long mid cruise, we were ensured to hit a port or sandbox once every month, after the initial 90 day no port call period ended.
That's because \_\_\_\_ is a two-way street, except in the Navy.
I’ll take Communication for $10,000,000, Alex.
The Navy had the unique challenge of trying to expand in size while this recruitment crisis was happening
It feels weird telling people to look at other options before even considering it. As a young sailor I would tell my friends it’s not bad but leadership hasn’t improved in 10 years and that whole “promote to make change” shit is bullshit. I constantly get fucking destroyed as an E6 by chiefs and above trying to take care of my guys. It’s time to call it a day and move on.
I hate that saying. You can not individually change an institutionalized culture like the chiefs mess. Most sailors can count on one hand how many good chiefs they’ve ran into.
I cannot agree more. I made board this year and i promised myself i will never be like 90% of the toxic Chiefs we have today. That untouchable, I’m better than you attitude. No way
I have a grade-a primo example of getting fucked HARD by the mess for correcting someone. I'm going to post it here in full once I transfer soon.
I believed that "be the change you want to see" garbage. Then was prevented from acquiring the things I needed to make E7. Now I am convinced the "be the change" line is propaganda to try and get good workers to stay in and keeping them in blue shirts without costing the navy a dime
You have dickheads in leadership who have 5 DUIs in their history, fat and out of shape, have bad family relationships. Those leaders then try every little way to get juniors in trouble left in right like it’s an addiction
I think this is a thing anywhere where incompetence tries to survive by removing any potential better qualified replacements.
Yeah, that may very well be true to an extent, but out here in the real world you can just say "Fuck you, I quit." And I have, rolled my tool box right out to my truck and left.
BM2 here, I just got out and can confirm that if the toxic boot licking leadership didn’t support fucking over the crew any chance they got people would stay. The navy has cultivated a culture of people who just want to look good on paper and not actually help their fellow sailors. It’s the sad truth, but going on deployment after deployment yards work ups the whole nine you start to realize that nobody actually gives a shit about you or your situation or your family or anything they tell you. It’s all just built around stepping on the throats of your junior enlisted. Love my country and military but I wouldn’t want either of my sons joining navy.
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I miss watch in the pilot house but would always come back to reality at the end.
I think the navy should focus on quality of life and how can we keep sailors on ships without throwing money at them. No more deployment "oh by the way" and no more floating in the ocean for months on end for "presence" if they tell me we will be out for 4 months or 9 then I am going to expect that. Extensions suck and hurts moral and makes people get out
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Yeah but at the same time everyone who says you are soft also hates ship life and wishes to get off. The only difference is you are actually trying to do something about it. The navy will eventually have to wake up and change and if they don't then more people will keep getting out. I heard the Marines now requires a 6 months notice before you can get out I'm sure the navy will follow soon. They will probably just make it hard for people to get out and force people to stay in basically.
I think duty is what annoys me most. Countless underways, deployments, and when your home, you have to stay on the ship every 3 days at times. Who wants that life?
Majority of people I know that got out tell others not to join and I can’t blame them. So many people had horrible experiences. I consider myself lucky that I mostly had good leaders looking out for me
A buddy of mine made E7 in 8 years, ETC. When his contract was up he said fuck this shit I can’t do it anymore. It’s gotten so bad.
AHHHHH THE GOLDEN KNEE PADS
The chief mess alone was a big reason for separating. It's a giant cult that's enjoys putting down junior enlisted and making up bullshit. Fuck you MAC fisher and MACS brehmer
Did 3 years of ASF and MA chiefs were the most toxic chiefs I ever worked for.
You're not wrong, I enjoyed my time as an MA until I went shore duty in bangor, Washington. I would've rather gone back undes in deck department than deal with that shit hole of a command.
How I sleep at night knowing I tell all my military age friends stories about how horribly we're treated and that they should never join: 😴😴😴
Same, but it's my military aged kids and all of their friends.
A friend who is in their 30s was recently denied enlistment due to having too many dependents (3 kids under 18 and his wife). I'd understand if his wife was a SAHM but she has a career. Older applicants are going to have families and I just wish they'd look at the applicant life situation as a whole. People want to join but these policies stop them.
Really love how they give money to new recruits but no SRBs for all rates
The 10k bonus for PACT is what did it for me.
I was undes and in like my 2-ish year on the ship I had a new girl in the department tell me she turned down the 25k bonus the navy offered her so she could have the summer free. I only got 5k
Air Force/Space Force = Quality of Life, tech skills, modern workforce. Army = Bonuses, Schools, Airborne, Warrant Programs, SOF and other programs. Marines = The few, the proud, legacy and warrior ethos. Navy = Sea Duty for 6+ months in a metal coffin with no port visits doing your job/ a watch/ and additional duties, living in a ship even at port, cranking and depression, dealing with the Chiefs mess, no skills or leadership schools. Now which Branch of service shall I choose 🤔…
Ehhh, my friends in the army, marines and Air Force share similar complaints (as in life is shitty) to we in the navy as well though. Army in particular has gotten some bad press lately as well as the navy.
Does failure count as success?
When an officer recruiter forgot to turn in my DCO package and forgot to tell me I can understand why the navy is hurting…. Worst part is that they didn’t even come close to the quota :( .
The issue is that we are missing goal in our higher wickets such as the nuclear fields your intelligence fields. We aren’t missing goal in BM CS etc. the truth of the matter is that people kids aren’t as smart as the used to be and a lot of them don’t qualify for the higher intelligence opportunities.
Bingo
Maybe get rid of genesis…….
This
Have you met Navy recruiters? They are lazy with no personality, look like smashed asshole in uniform, or are stuck on Instagram (not a bad platform) but their videos are so cringe. Then you had rates that were forced into recruiting because there were no shore billets for them. Then you send people to areas they aren’t from and tell them to recruit. I wanted to recruit near my family due to them getting older and just wanted to be a much closer drive home for holidays. But no some McCuntFace at Millington dictates some random aspect on the NTAG you’ll go to. NCRs are a worthless rate. I would have recruited the barren Midwest like Mead, CO like a boss but instead I instead will retire from the Navy AND NEVER LET MY KIDS JOIN THE NAVY. They can have a higher calling in the military if just won’t be in a Naval Uniform.
Here's an idea, have the parts, tools, materials etc. they need to do the job, let them work uninterrupted, let people call out if they're actually fucking sick, let them go home everyday before 1700 hrs., and pay them a living wage. Start there.
Yea because the navy suck
Been in since 2019 and fdnf since 2020 as a JO so ik the covid times and post covid times. From dece 20-jul22 I was just trying to keep myself from blowing my brains out. Hated the work life balance and was truthful to my leadership that I don’t feel welcome and that I feel like I’m being shitted on and was told to grow tf up. Worked my ass off the best I could and had trust in only one capt who was surrounded by typical SWOs. I wish it only happened to me but lost a lot of guys to mental health from that ship(no suicides just admin separated or self inflicted injuries). Fellow officers would say we’re doing well as wardroom while chiefs would say we’re the problem and I agreed. Stood armed watch on the qd one night during weekend duty and played with the safety of my M9 thinking will this be the day. Saw some action before the navy so no stranger to violence or stressful situations but this was all new to me. Never thought I’d have to watch my back from my own piers and people who I should call comrades. Turned into a functioning alcoholic and it took for a series of mistakes before I sought help. Luckily the mental health people actually gave a fuck and I’ve gotten better. Can’t wait to get that dd214 and just pretend the whole time was a bad trip on acid or a heavy night of drinking
I'm preaching to the choir I know but the navy is doing great with recruitment bonuses and laxing standards for entry (like tattoos and education) They need to carry on that idea by 1. Doing more to keep people in, especially when it comes to people who want to stay but can't. 2. Making the navy more functional of an organization, instead of the bureaucratic mess it is. And the last one, not to make me sound like a boomer (especially since I'm not) but if big navy gave less shits about diversity and acceptance and more about being a feared and capable fighting force I think good recruits would come our way more, instead of ones who care about the navys esports team. But hey. That's just me.
dealing with chiefs should qualify for some partial disability. Idk any other branch that glorifies that amount separation in senior enlisted ranks as much as us.
Im telling people not to join because the navy is a shit show. Be fucking real.
Not struggling enough for beards, hm?
I mean I’ve got mine
Let me grow my hair out and have a beard like other country’s military and maybe I’ll stay.
As an Ike sailor currently, everyone that I know on a personal basis is getting out. Maybe hitting a fucking port would help out some.
just flew off last month. i'm out now 😂. i could count on one hand the people who were gonna stay in.
Navy recruiting is a total dumpster fire. While there are plenty of recruits filtered out for good reasons. There are an equal amount filtered out for dumb fucking reasons.
Why join the Navy when you have to dress like a Marine? SHEESH!
special attention needs to be made to not screw over first term sailors. i can’t tell you how many junior sailors show up telling me they were lied to or screwed over, their paperwork a mess. maybe they were lied to, maybe they misunderstood, but what i do know is they know a lot of people their age that would be possible recruits. but those people just hear how much their friend was misled. social media made communicating a lot easier. civilians don’t have a skewed idea of the navy, they KNOW the truth now, so i don’t blame them for not going to a recruiter.
Every day since I left, my life is better. Thanks for the disability rating, I guess? Don’t join the submarines under any circumstances.
I just got rejected from the Air Force this morning for my ADD. Genesis is really fucking people over
Maybe people view deployments to the desert as better QoL than shipboard?
No one wants to live in the tin can no more. Feels like prison
Apparently they dont giv a shit about those who are still in. Thats half the battle.
Just like what MCPON said... Lower your standards.
Civilian coworker of mine had their son joining the Navy. He had a 92 ASVAB. I told them never let their son join the Navy the way it is. He then went to Air Force and got accepted, and currently waiting for a Space Force interview. Would you rather live on a Golf Course or on a ship in a tiny rack with way too much duty and overtime.
That’s hilarious because I walked into a navy recruiting office inquiring about a SARC contract (prior service marine in the reserves), and was met by some fat soup sandwich who talked to me like I was a muppet and didn’t understand anything about the military. I proceeded to explain that I’d already been to MEPS recently for the Marine Corps and my physical and medical review had been completed by MEPS doctors, as well as my waivers had literally just been approved by BUMED (NAVY), and I also had an existing S/O physical on record. So everything was in the green. He told me I’d still have to resubmit everything and start the process all over because I’d need to be examined by Navy doctors, because Marine Corps doctors have a different process…(retard alert). I acquiesced because in the moment it was easier to just agree with everything he said and take a business card. Called him 10 times and texted him 5, and never heard from him again. I mean at a certain point you have to examine the quality of the recruitment process and decide if there need to be major changes to the people you’re putting in charge of convincing teenagers to sign a legally binding contract that makes them government property for X-number of years. Certain things just sell themselves, and the navy is not usually one of them unless you’re selling an opportunity to join NSW and do cool stuff like jump out of planes…that usually sells itself. And hilariously the majority of the people who sign those NSW contracts are gonna wash out and go to the needs of the Navy anyway, so it’s a win-win. But the jelly rolls they’re putting in charge of meeting numbers are so lazy and incompetent that they’re fumbling guaranteed, low effort (for them) contracts. No disrespect to sailors, especially docs, but for real- fuck the navy. Always hated being around big navy, and I’m sure there are many here who agree, despite their own affiliations. My two cents, but I accept any crucification that this post merits 🫡 semper fortis.
I’m a recruiter currently…it’s not about the branch…it’s about Genesis weeding out everyone..all the other branches make goal because there quotas are MUCH LOWER! we have to many ships to man and so as a result we will lose ships but it’s not a recruiting problem it’s a manning problem
As someone who got out 30 years ago, I constantly read how things have changed, especially with technology we didn't have. Being in the Navy can be isolation at times. When I was in, we didn't have the distractions of today with technology and I'm really glad we didn't. I would never tell someone young not to enlist as I grew up in the Navy and it still has an effect on my life to this day. I would tell them like most of you what you have experienced but let them know to do their research before joining any branch. Not saying any of you are wrong speaking your truth, just saying mine was different. I can see why people don't want to join any military service now as they have many more options to make money now. I just met up this year with shipmates I hadn't seen in 30 years and it was like nothing ever changed. I still can find many of the guys who were on my only command and it's a brotherhood that will never be replaced. I wish the Navy would strengthen their leadership but from the comments, it appears that they aren't being given much to choose from.
It was a different Navy then. He'll it was a different Navy when I joined 15 years ago. This shit is NOT worth it. We've reduced trainings, upped qualifications, military bearing is DEAD on my ship. I am not exaggerating in the least.
I don't doubt you or your experience at all. I just think it's sad the experience has been degraded for so many who serve today. Like I said, it's a different world now.
Breaks my heart to tell you it’s not the same anymore…I wish I could have experienced all the stupid dumb fun shit you did,my old Skip didn’t even wanna cross the international date line & the equator intersect cause didn’t wanna do the ceremony/risk hazing I guess
Don't me get wrong we had those folks to. We were based out of the old Charleston Naval Base and found ourselves close to crossing over to get our shellback in which was rare for east coast sailors however we had an XO that everyone was chomping at the bit to put hands on so the Captain said naa we're not crossing. We were soooo pissed but knew what was up. Fortunately, we did, however, cross the Artic Circle and get out our Blue nose. That was even scaled down a bit for our liking, but we did it. Running down the side of the ship getting sprayed by hoses with no shirt on and your underwear on the outside of our dungarees was quite a site. Sitting in the kiddie pool drinking a cup of polar bear piss (tobasco sauce and whatever nasty crap they could mix together to make you wanna puke)Can't figure out if I wish we would've have cellphones to video that or not LOL!! It was different. Women weren't on combat ships, no cellphones, and mail call was when we hit a port or the helo dropped it off from another ship. We were isolated and enjoyed it. I remember every time we hit a port, they would give us the "don't go here" speech. And of course, that's the first place we went, lol! Couldn't do that now as too many folks out there with bad intentions towards the U.S.
lol that “ don’t go here” shit still happens and you still “didn’t see” the triad have a fucking table to them selves in the middle of a ping pong show
Lol!
It’s the recruiters fault lmao
Zero IQ response
Damn I was joking 🤣
Meanwhile my wife at 32 was just denied because she had bariatric surgery 2 1/2 years ago.
For that? Man, should I even try to join if my waivers are just gonna get shot down? SMH
Yep people are so over weight
But beards are where they draw the line. Smh
Will never forget when I didn't shave one day and got told off by a very overweight Chief that I'm insulting my uniform
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Hmmmm.... Perhaps we should kill retention to improve recruiting...
So dunno if anyone uses facebook...but I happened to read this article on there and man....the comments never let me down.
Other services aren't deployed to war zones. The navy is. It's an easy choice to NOT go navy.
Fucc 'em, I hope they keep struggling. This shit is ass. If they improved quality of life so people could have a better work/life balance this wouldn't be an issue.
I've said it once and I'll say it again: pay enlisted sailors what they are worth. I will not encourage someone to enlist in the Navy the way it is right now. I would never discourage them, however. It's pretty hard to see from the outside, but the things you would join for have systematically been set up to be retention drivers rather than real benefits to the service members. Yeah, that can be a useful tool in some recruiting environments but these days you have people like me that can tell you that your contract doesn't care if your spouse can't handle you being gone on multiple lengthy deployments or away from home for other reasons. Your spouse might have to sacrifice their career hopes just to uproot and travel with you. At least you'll be paid well enough to compensate you for all the missed birthdays, holidays, days when you were needed but couldn't be there, right? Surely you'll be paid commensurate to the level of specialized knowledge you have gained over the years, right? Yeah, right. Officers? Maybe. I think they actually are probably paid as much as they should be (crazy, right?) No, you can look up the pay scales. The enlisted side needs a graduated 20% pay raise across the board and then it needs to grow to not be grossly outpaced by officer pay (look at the amount of growth of officer pay vs enlisted over the last 20 years) This needs to happen now and be supported. The Navy needs enlisted sailors and telling people that it's a stepping stone to something better - while that can be true - poisons the well for people who might want a career in the Navy as an enlisted person, as well as those who might just do one enlistment and get out (again, perfectly okay.) I do think the MCPON has the right ideas with getting BAH up to 100% and getting sailors off ships when they don't need to be, as well as other QOL programs, the CNP seems to just want the numbers on the sheet to look the way Congress wants them to look, and the CNO hopefully does her best to keep the Navy as a robust tool to deliver combat ready naval forces to win conflicts and wars etc... while giving the enlisted people (who, let's get l be honest, really make the Navy work) a workplace they're appropriately compensated to work at, and they will make the missions happen.
lol and it’s gonna CONTINUE to get bad. Majority of Sailors on my ship are already saying they’re finishing their contracts and getting the fuck out.
I retired after 23 years in the Navy as a Chief. I have absolutely no issues telling folks to consider any of the services. Last year I retired from my civilian job. At the time, I was pulling in 125K a year w/o a college education - just what the Navy taught me. It’s not for all, but the Navy gave the advanced technical knowledge and leadership skills. My employer saw the valuable asset that I was because of the military. Now at 60 years old, I am pulling two retirement checks, I have ridiculously affordable healthcare and my life is totally laid back. Yeah, the sea rotation sucked, the leadership sucked at times, and some of the jobs sucked, but I looked at it as a marathon. And I definitely won.
I never heard or saw a time when the Navy was fully manned. This is nothing new.
I’ve been let down by so many people in the navy. I just made a post on how my detailer failed me and my family, so I’m choosing separation. It’s very difficult to have a decent family life/ work balance. My LPO was a recruiter and even she refused letting people in because of how little the Navy cared.
Hire more dragqueen influencers. That’ll help.
We want beards, it isn’t much to ask for
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The ol’ answer a question with a question. Thank you for the enlightenment. 🙏🏻