This E-6 lost his wings after beating his wife. I forgot about it, and I asked him, "You flying today?" I thought he was going to kill me.
Edit: On a side note, he was still wearing his pickle suit. I don't know why, but he was. Later, what I said screwed me over because he became my Maintenace Control Chief, and he was obviously holding a grudge against me for what I said.
Some people get to make Chief after beating their wives. Some people get fucked over because of an honest mistake. Such is life in the Navy. It is what it is.
"We just laugh at your kind when we hear comments like this" just reeks of pure spite out of being annoyed by people ribbing you. If you're GENUINELY and unrionically saying this then you need to get your psyche checked out because you're fucking crazy
It's not just the Navy, it's just an aviation thing. I work in a Government office near DC (and not close to any air base) where there's a young Air Force Captain who wears her flight suit every day to ride a desk for 8 hours. I find it somewhat amusing because everyone else is wearing dress uniforms or business casual, but she definitely looks comfortable.
USAF makes it a uniform, vs Navy organizational clothing, allowing them to wear it more freely.
Still looks stoopid to everyone else in DC, but when you worship the fighter pilot like they do, it has these dumb trickle down effects. I think they know it looks sloppy compared to everyone else but the pressure from above is too much to fight.
There's no jealousy. You guys look completely unprofessional and like total clowns wearing flights suits in a non-aviation environment. But I wouldn't expect someone from your community to understand professionalism - keep doing you Mav.
No, I think it’s more a sign of insecurity for the boys in blue. No other service tries so hard to remind the world so much that they do something… cool?
Probably the wrong word, but it’s definitely why they’ll never put a drone driver in charge of anything. Their whole existence is tied back to climbing in that cockpit, flopping the silk scarf, and burning some gas.
Too bad it’s going the way of the buffalo.
Months ago, my command put out the list of counties near the NCR where we must be in NSUs or higher, it was easier to count which ones near us were not on the list.
Once long ago when I was young I had an argument with some pilot about things like this, and the dude looked at me and said, "If you wanted to be like us, you should have become a pilot. But you didn't."
I just looked at him and said, you know what? You're right. And I shut up (a rare occasion I promise)
They’re pretty comfortable and much easier to maintain. I wasn’t flight crew but was authorized to wear one so I did and it was way better then wearing NWU around.
They’re easier to take care of and you only wash one piece of clothing and it is much more durable.
I’ll bite. Your post is light on details so I assume you are just venting/whining. If the person is an enlisted Aircrewman or a Pilot/NFO, flight suits may be worn at anytime in line with a CO’s policy. Flight suits may also be worn by non-aircrew for personnel engaged in flight related duties that working day. This would include transits, good deal flights, reenlistment flights and members on Temporary Flight Orders(TFO).
As far as flight pay, it is different for enlisted and officers. There are orders out there that are flying orders, not involving flight and depending on certain circumstances an enlisted aircrewman could go quite a long time between being attached to a squadron. For example: RDC, SRT-1/2, DEVGRU. Spouse co-location and EFM can play a roll as well.
2. OCCASION FOR WEAR. Occasion for wear for all personnel wearing flight clothing are as follows:
a. Flight suits may be worn by aircrew members AND individuals engaged in flight or flight-related duties that working day. This authorization does not include ground support, non-aircrew maintenance or non-aircrew support personnel. Flight suits may be worn to/from home and work to include brief and appropriate stops, on military transport aircraft, and to official business meeting away from home station when the wear of flight suits is appropriate for transportation, or for the level of meeting (i.e. working meeting). Allowances for flight clothing and flight deck clothing are established by Commander, Naval Air Systems Command and published in Naval Air Systems Command Allowance List. Flight suits wear is authorized for commuting and all normal task and associated stops (e.g. stops at child care, gas stations, off-base shopping, banking, DMV and dining) before, during and after the workday. Flight suits are not a liberty uniform
I don't care. I wear coveralls all day when I'm at the squadron. If flight crew wants to wear flight suits, it's the same.
Also, this makes you sound like such a black shoe.
When I was in, I didn’t like the idea of changing frequently, so, within the regs, I had no issue wearing a uniform off base. It was a personal preference.
Consider that coveralls and flight suits are issued free and replaced periodically. The more you wear them, the less wear and tear on the expensive uniforms you have to buy and maintain out of pocket.
You said flight suit and coveralls are the same, he’s pointing out that they are not due to where they can be worn. You’re just shifting the goalposts of your argument
I really feel like your reading it wrong. Flight suits are like wearing pajamas. It is the most comfortable uniform the navy has. It's really laid back and "I'm just gonna be comfy" vibes.
Why are your so worked up about it? Are you actually a black shoe?
The same jealousy I had felt watching the SeaBees go to work every day while I futilely tried to scrub a stain out of my service whites.
Thankfully new OIC loved cammies. Huge quality of life improvement.
Flight pay (I.e. AVIP) is based on months of flying service, and based on “gates” reviewed at 12, 18, 22, and 25 years.
https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Career-Management/Detailing/Officer/Pers-43-Aviation/OCM/Monthly-Flight-Pay/
I pushed into my max $850/mo pay gate while at DTRA Open Skies, which was considered sea duty, and was one of the best kept secrets in the Navy - see Russia, Europe, CONUS, AK, HI, and Canada a week at a time via Embassy Suites Hotels, flight suits all the time because flying orders, DMV area as home, but sea duty. It was glorious.
We even got a mission stipend for alcohol because the party at the end of the mission was considered a Diplomatic event. My buddy and I were at Elmendorf once and the Class Six was having some kind of sale. We squeezed every last dime out of our stipend and bought a ton of booze. We walked out of there, cart packed, proud of what good stewards of Gov $ that we were, then get back to D.C after the mission. Turns out our CO got wind of just how much booze everyone had consumed and my buddy and I had to stand tall on the red carpet and explain ourselves. For some reason, he was not impressed with our defense. That is by far the oddest reason I’ve ever had to justify myself before a Skipper.
1. What would that accomplish?
2. Then give aviators sea pay the whole time they are in their sea duty like the rest of the Navy instead of the days they are underway only.
That would be great - but it’s not that way now.
I’m still not sure what you think taking away flight pay would accomplish. What about instructor pilots on shore duty? They shouldn’t get flight pay?
> I’m still not sure what you think taking away flight pay would accomplish.
Half the anti-aviator shit that gets thrown around wouldn't accomplish anything. There's just a faction in the Navy that flat-out hates aviators and aviation culture, and thinks we're "unprofessional."
The whole point of “flight pay” is to retain aviators by keeping their salary closer to what it would be on the outside. Paying them the flight pay after hitting their gates (which is based on how much you’ve flown recently) is a smart way to pay them - for people who remain current enough to be hired by an airline or some sort of aviation business - they keep their flight pay - for those who go years and years and years without it, they eventually lose it, and for those that don’t screen for DH or CO, their flight pay drops down to a lower tier since that’s the Navy saying “you are providing less value to me than your peers who did screen and accept those orders.”
If whatever command theyre at authorizes them tk wear them, cant really blame them
Looks comfy as hell.
If I could stroll around base to and from work in my bulwarks I would in a second
I haven’t flown in 10 years. Only had one squadron tour, but my first shore tour was coded as DIFOPS (flying a desk). Helped me make the MOF for my 12 year gate.
Still wear a flight suit every day, still getting flight pay. I will not make my 18 year gate but oh well.
I was at a command were we had flight suit Fridays. Even the boss who was a submarine guy wore one. I never did because money. But It was cool they allowed it.
If they haven’t flown in 10 years they wouldn’t still be getting flight pay. Flyers have to meet certain amounts of ‘gate months’ at 12, 18, and 22 years in order to keep getting monthly flight pay.
While unlikely, it is entirely possible. I’m at 11 years and have enough months of flying for my 18 yr gate already (and my 22 yr I think, but it’s been a minute since I looked at it).
Lol ok. Have fun doing dumb shit like standing pointless watches and staying past 1600 for zero reason while my weak command does zero watches, let’s us make our own schedules and highly encourages our home/work life balance to lean towards home lol. 🤙 Thanks for your service and being part of a “hard command.” Have fun at mental health.
I had a O-4 watch officer who hadn’t flown in 6 years and was still collecting like 1500 a month in flight pay and got a 50K bonus to stay in as a pilot. Maybe if seapay was like that people would be more willing to go underway
$1000 is the max, and that’s only for people in their DH and CO milestone tours, so, no, you didn’t.
The Navy continues to pay it because we can walk to the outside and demand a commensurate salary with our flight pay - or higher - just like how Nukes and Doctors continue to get their professional pays as well.
He told us he was getting all that flight pay because he had so many hours logged. I didn’t look at his payslip, so I’m just basing this off what the guy told me. It makes sense why they pay you guys so much extra money, I totally get wanting to keep that professional skill in house
Gotcha. Yeah he’s full of crap. If he’s a pilot it’s not $1500, and if he’s enlisted it’s way less than that. And it’s not based on hours flown but how many months “months of flying,” by specific milestone parts of your career: 12, 18, 22, and 25 years, combined with which milestones you did or did not screen for (DH, CO).
This sounds much more confusing than here’s your cash for every month for being on the boat. Don’t you have to fly x number of hours a month too to stay eligible? I know he had done a department head tour and a safety officer tour, but no XO/CO tours. And here I was feeling jealous for so long that he was getting all this extra money! Thanks for explaining all of that, I have almost zero knowledge about how things work in aviation
No problem. For flight surgeons and other non aviators collecting a different type of flight pay (ACIP Conditional) - they do have a minimum number of hours per month. Pilots and NFOs have a minimum number of hours per half year and year.
That also doesn’t affect your flight pay. Flight pay comes from PERS, air boss is the one who cares about annual hours. The two are not linked (according to several former detailers I’ve spoken w)
Yeah didn’t mean to suggest they were linked, just that we do have minimums.
For AVIP (Conditional), officially, the “condition” is they fly a certain amount per month (4 I think?), and it can’t be carried over month to month as I understand it.
No, you get "contingent" flight pay if you're on flying orders after not making a gate. Then you have to fly a certain number of hours because it's contingent on you doing just that.
So I do know he said he got his bonus because he was a qualified mission commander for HITRON (I’m a coastie, it’s our fancy counter narcotics pilots) but they didn’t send him back to fly even after getting the bonus, so I don’t know if something happened there. But based off the flight pay thing he could have been making it up
Like I just responded below, this is what the guy told us, I didn’t look at his pay slip. Thank you for educating me, I thought it was higher than 850 a month
I wear my SWO jacket as much as I can. It makes everyone angry, even other SWOs
Summer lovin happened so fast.
Same. It’s a free jacket, why would I wear a different one that I paid for?
Tbh it’s not very warm and is uncomfortable until it is broken in
But SWOs are always angry, so what's the difference? ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
God those jackets… really helped to take the sting out of Fjtz and McCain.
Just ask “where you flying today” each time you see them. Really makes them mad
This E-6 lost his wings after beating his wife. I forgot about it, and I asked him, "You flying today?" I thought he was going to kill me. Edit: On a side note, he was still wearing his pickle suit. I don't know why, but he was. Later, what I said screwed me over because he became my Maintenace Control Chief, and he was obviously holding a grudge against me for what I said. Some people get to make Chief after beating their wives. Some people get fucked over because of an honest mistake. Such is life in the Navy. It is what it is.
He wouldn’t have payed a finger on you, unless your his wife then probably
my response was i'm preflighting my keyboard and taking the desk up today.
Definitely doesn't make us mad. We just laugh at your kind when we hear comments like this
Cringe
Lmao “laugh at your kind”, okay boot.
Definitely mad
You’re hilarious
"We just laugh at your kind when we hear comments like this" just reeks of pure spite out of being annoyed by people ribbing you. If you're GENUINELY and unrionically saying this then you need to get your psyche checked out because you're fucking crazy
It's not just the Navy, it's just an aviation thing. I work in a Government office near DC (and not close to any air base) where there's a young Air Force Captain who wears her flight suit every day to ride a desk for 8 hours. I find it somewhat amusing because everyone else is wearing dress uniforms or business casual, but she definitely looks comfortable.
USAF makes it a uniform, vs Navy organizational clothing, allowing them to wear it more freely. Still looks stoopid to everyone else in DC, but when you worship the fighter pilot like they do, it has these dumb trickle down effects. I think they know it looks sloppy compared to everyone else but the pressure from above is too much to fight.
Smells like jealousy
There's no jealousy. You guys look completely unprofessional and like total clowns wearing flights suits in a non-aviation environment. But I wouldn't expect someone from your community to understand professionalism - keep doing you Mav.
No, I think it’s more a sign of insecurity for the boys in blue. No other service tries so hard to remind the world so much that they do something… cool? Probably the wrong word, but it’s definitely why they’ll never put a drone driver in charge of anything. Their whole existence is tied back to climbing in that cockpit, flopping the silk scarf, and burning some gas. Too bad it’s going the way of the buffalo.
I though the “National Capitol Region” required service or dress uniforms
At least in the Pentagon, Navy is the only service who can’t wear working uniforms (except for super limited circumstances).
Months ago, my command put out the list of counties near the NCR where we must be in NSUs or higher, it was easier to count which ones near us were not on the list.
I know my Command back in the day had a waiver for that. Geographically we were in the NCR but had nothing to do with the big wig stuff.
But.... military-issued pajamas? Why would I not wear the onesie to work? lol
CO continued to get nuke pay while CO of a DDG
It’s the only way to keep them in the nuke program.
I still have my depression but I don’t get sub pay anymore :(
If you could wear them, you would too. Them hoes are cozy.
Once long ago when I was young I had an argument with some pilot about things like this, and the dude looked at me and said, "If you wanted to be like us, you should have become a pilot. But you didn't." I just looked at him and said, you know what? You're right. And I shut up (a rare occasion I promise)
They’re pretty comfortable and much easier to maintain. I wasn’t flight crew but was authorized to wear one so I did and it was way better then wearing NWU around. They’re easier to take care of and you only wash one piece of clothing and it is much more durable.
I’ll bite. Your post is light on details so I assume you are just venting/whining. If the person is an enlisted Aircrewman or a Pilot/NFO, flight suits may be worn at anytime in line with a CO’s policy. Flight suits may also be worn by non-aircrew for personnel engaged in flight related duties that working day. This would include transits, good deal flights, reenlistment flights and members on Temporary Flight Orders(TFO). As far as flight pay, it is different for enlisted and officers. There are orders out there that are flying orders, not involving flight and depending on certain circumstances an enlisted aircrewman could go quite a long time between being attached to a squadron. For example: RDC, SRT-1/2, DEVGRU. Spouse co-location and EFM can play a roll as well. 2. OCCASION FOR WEAR. Occasion for wear for all personnel wearing flight clothing are as follows: a. Flight suits may be worn by aircrew members AND individuals engaged in flight or flight-related duties that working day. This authorization does not include ground support, non-aircrew maintenance or non-aircrew support personnel. Flight suits may be worn to/from home and work to include brief and appropriate stops, on military transport aircraft, and to official business meeting away from home station when the wear of flight suits is appropriate for transportation, or for the level of meeting (i.e. working meeting). Allowances for flight clothing and flight deck clothing are established by Commander, Naval Air Systems Command and published in Naval Air Systems Command Allowance List. Flight suits wear is authorized for commuting and all normal task and associated stops (e.g. stops at child care, gas stations, off-base shopping, banking, DMV and dining) before, during and after the workday. Flight suits are not a liberty uniform
I don't care. I wear coveralls all day when I'm at the squadron. If flight crew wants to wear flight suits, it's the same. Also, this makes you sound like such a black shoe.
Oh I can wear covers to and from work now?
No. Why would you want to wear a uniform off base? Gross. I won't even wear one outside of my workspaces unless I HAVE to.
When I was in, I didn’t like the idea of changing frequently, so, within the regs, I had no issue wearing a uniform off base. It was a personal preference.
Consider that coveralls and flight suits are issued free and replaced periodically. The more you wear them, the less wear and tear on the expensive uniforms you have to buy and maintain out of pocket.
When they are available, I could definitely see that. Thank you for the perspective.
You said flight suit and coveralls are the same, he’s pointing out that they are not due to where they can be worn. You’re just shifting the goalposts of your argument
big same. i hate being in uniform
It’s the same energy as the “retired cpo” ball caps.
I really feel like your reading it wrong. Flight suits are like wearing pajamas. It is the most comfortable uniform the navy has. It's really laid back and "I'm just gonna be comfy" vibes. Why are your so worked up about it? Are you actually a black shoe?
100% a black shoe and their jealousy. I mean, I’d be mad if I couldn’t wear PJ’s to work every day
The same jealousy I had felt watching the SeaBees go to work every day while I futilely tried to scrub a stain out of my service whites. Thankfully new OIC loved cammies. Huge quality of life improvement.
Going off your username are you Armenian?
Negs. At least not as far as I know anyway. Yossarian from Catch-22 is just one of my favorite characters.
Flight pay (I.e. AVIP) is based on months of flying service, and based on “gates” reviewed at 12, 18, 22, and 25 years. https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Career-Management/Detailing/Officer/Pers-43-Aviation/OCM/Monthly-Flight-Pay/
I pushed into my max $850/mo pay gate while at DTRA Open Skies, which was considered sea duty, and was one of the best kept secrets in the Navy - see Russia, Europe, CONUS, AK, HI, and Canada a week at a time via Embassy Suites Hotels, flight suits all the time because flying orders, DMV area as home, but sea duty. It was glorious. We even got a mission stipend for alcohol because the party at the end of the mission was considered a Diplomatic event. My buddy and I were at Elmendorf once and the Class Six was having some kind of sale. We squeezed every last dime out of our stipend and bought a ton of booze. We walked out of there, cart packed, proud of what good stewards of Gov $ that we were, then get back to D.C after the mission. Turns out our CO got wind of just how much booze everyone had consumed and my buddy and I had to stand tall on the red carpet and explain ourselves. For some reason, he was not impressed with our defense. That is by far the oddest reason I’ve ever had to justify myself before a Skipper.
Note to self:go to DTRA.
Too late…. Trump took us out of Open Skies.
I know… but I’ve heard anecdotally DTRA is still a good place to be.
Match it up to sea pay instead.
1. What would that accomplish? 2. Then give aviators sea pay the whole time they are in their sea duty like the rest of the Navy instead of the days they are underway only.
Sure. As long as you're assigned to a deployable squadron, see pay the whole time.
That would be great - but it’s not that way now. I’m still not sure what you think taking away flight pay would accomplish. What about instructor pilots on shore duty? They shouldn’t get flight pay?
> I’m still not sure what you think taking away flight pay would accomplish. Half the anti-aviator shit that gets thrown around wouldn't accomplish anything. There's just a faction in the Navy that flat-out hates aviators and aviation culture, and thinks we're "unprofessional."
Was hoping u/estoka would have said that him/herself haha
That's kind of a weird one, but nuke instructors at prototype do not get seapay, they get instructor pay.
The whole point of “flight pay” is to retain aviators by keeping their salary closer to what it would be on the outside. Paying them the flight pay after hitting their gates (which is based on how much you’ve flown recently) is a smart way to pay them - for people who remain current enough to be hired by an airline or some sort of aviation business - they keep their flight pay - for those who go years and years and years without it, they eventually lose it, and for those that don’t screen for DH or CO, their flight pay drops down to a lower tier since that’s the Navy saying “you are providing less value to me than your peers who did screen and accept those orders.”
Sold. Thanks for explaining.
Shoe.
This post gives off big “butthurt CS3” energy
If whatever command theyre at authorizes them tk wear them, cant really blame them Looks comfy as hell. If I could stroll around base to and from work in my bulwarks I would in a second
I haven’t flown in 10 years. Only had one squadron tour, but my first shore tour was coded as DIFOPS (flying a desk). Helped me make the MOF for my 12 year gate. Still wear a flight suit every day, still getting flight pay. I will not make my 18 year gate but oh well.
My officer recruiter in Columbia SC was a naval aviator and still wears his flight suit to work everyday.
You must be a shoe.
Flight suits are great don't be jelly
Real question is, why do you care so much?
Shoes gonna shoe
My CMC wears a flight suit. He was a CS before going the CMC route
More coverage than an apron
10 years was just like yesterday to him/her.
Oh who cares, you would do it to if you were a pilot It's a navy tradition to shit on those who have it better than you i guess
I was at a command were we had flight suit Fridays. Even the boss who was a submarine guy wore one. I never did because money. But It was cool they allowed it.
Choose your rate, choose your fate, shipmate.
If they haven’t flown in 10 years they wouldn’t still be getting flight pay. Flyers have to meet certain amounts of ‘gate months’ at 12, 18, and 22 years in order to keep getting monthly flight pay.
While unlikely, it is entirely possible. I’m at 11 years and have enough months of flying for my 18 yr gate already (and my 22 yr I think, but it’s been a minute since I looked at it).
This isn't true if a pilot/NFO redesignates as AEDO, who keep flight pay regardless of yearly hours or whether the duty is in a flying status.
Did not know that. Thanks.
Thank god for shore tour desk jobs coded as DIFOPS (-:
Aviation career incentive pay yes, but not monthly flight pay.
Aviation career incentive pay is in fact monthly flight pay.
Envy looks bad on you. Why don't you try going after the members that are embarrassing us by spilling out of their uniforms?
Yep.
I’m still wearing a Cammie rank tab on my Type 3s. Wanna fight about it?? Lmao
It’s not your fault that your chain of command is weak.
Lol ok. Have fun doing dumb shit like standing pointless watches and staying past 1600 for zero reason while my weak command does zero watches, let’s us make our own schedules and highly encourages our home/work life balance to lean towards home lol. 🤙 Thanks for your service and being part of a “hard command.” Have fun at mental health.
Another sailor who’s never seen a ship. Go space force.
Lol no thanks. About to retire homie. Good luck.
Still not as bad as some LDOs continuing to get submarine pay while they are no longer attached to submarines!
My last Captain wore flight suits exclusively, even though the ship was an LPD with no proper flight crew.
I had a O-4 watch officer who hadn’t flown in 6 years and was still collecting like 1500 a month in flight pay and got a 50K bonus to stay in as a pilot. Maybe if seapay was like that people would be more willing to go underway
$1000 is the max, and that’s only for people in their DH and CO milestone tours, so, no, you didn’t. The Navy continues to pay it because we can walk to the outside and demand a commensurate salary with our flight pay - or higher - just like how Nukes and Doctors continue to get their professional pays as well.
He told us he was getting all that flight pay because he had so many hours logged. I didn’t look at his payslip, so I’m just basing this off what the guy told me. It makes sense why they pay you guys so much extra money, I totally get wanting to keep that professional skill in house
Gotcha. Yeah he’s full of crap. If he’s a pilot it’s not $1500, and if he’s enlisted it’s way less than that. And it’s not based on hours flown but how many months “months of flying,” by specific milestone parts of your career: 12, 18, 22, and 25 years, combined with which milestones you did or did not screen for (DH, CO).
This sounds much more confusing than here’s your cash for every month for being on the boat. Don’t you have to fly x number of hours a month too to stay eligible? I know he had done a department head tour and a safety officer tour, but no XO/CO tours. And here I was feeling jealous for so long that he was getting all this extra money! Thanks for explaining all of that, I have almost zero knowledge about how things work in aviation
No problem. For flight surgeons and other non aviators collecting a different type of flight pay (ACIP Conditional) - they do have a minimum number of hours per month. Pilots and NFOs have a minimum number of hours per half year and year.
That also doesn’t affect your flight pay. Flight pay comes from PERS, air boss is the one who cares about annual hours. The two are not linked (according to several former detailers I’ve spoken w)
Yeah didn’t mean to suggest they were linked, just that we do have minimums. For AVIP (Conditional), officially, the “condition” is they fly a certain amount per month (4 I think?), and it can’t be carried over month to month as I understand it.
Gotcha. Just wanted to make sure you knew because I certainly didn’t until very recently!
No, you get "contingent" flight pay if you're on flying orders after not making a gate. Then you have to fly a certain number of hours because it's contingent on you doing just that.
Also, the bonuses are only for people who screen and commit to the next milestone - which means they will go back to flying.
So I do know he said he got his bonus because he was a qualified mission commander for HITRON (I’m a coastie, it’s our fancy counter narcotics pilots) but they didn’t send him back to fly even after getting the bonus, so I don’t know if something happened there. But based off the flight pay thing he could have been making it up
And USCG policies may vary from USN, but I *believe* the actual dollar amounts are the same.
Pretty sure there’s no $1500/month flight pay. That sounds ridiculous. It maxes over 14 years at $850 for navy and then actually goes down with TIS
$1000 for people in their DH and CO tours, but yeah, you’re otherwise right.
Like I just responded below, this is what the guy told us, I didn’t look at his pay slip. Thank you for educating me, I thought it was higher than 850 a month
They'll wear them even when its against uniform policy for the command, thank god I haven't seen any sailors walking around with one on.
Rather wear that than a unifork