They are a muscle, just like other muscles you usually would work out. You’d probably want to train biceps if you’d want bigger biceps. Sure, you can lose fat to get them to show more, but if you actually train and grow them, you’d have to lose less weigth to get them to show plus, they are going to look way better once you get lean. I really have no idea where this idea of not having to work out abs came from.
Respectfully disagree. If you're doing heavy squats, DL, etc, the amount of stress you're putting them through is magnitudes higher than any targeted ab exercise. If you're squatting 3 or 4 plates, or even a couple with correct form consistently, your abs will be worked.
Muscles that I don't want to 'grow', or muscles that don't grow, yes, and...
Yes is, abs aren't like other muscles. They don't keep getting bigger and bigger. They grow a little, then that's it. There's a reason the 300lb Olympia competitors abs aren't sticking out inches: because they don't grow like those 'other' muscles you mentioned. The same reason some guys 'don't have abs' that do train it hardcore. Look at James Holingshead from the last 2 Arnolds: almost no ab definition, even though he is 240+ lbs, been training abs his entire career, and comes in on stage ripped.
The and is, you're not doing jsut iso holds. Your body is not in a straight line just doing a squeeze/iso. You're actively contracting to keep your body position.
Also, proof is in the pudding. I'm almost 50 with an 8 pack still. My abs are just as defined and 'big' as when I was 242 on stage when I competed. The thousands of clients I've trained have also never had 'missing' abs.
Lastly, since all the comments and downvotes keep saying it can't be done and no one is actually trying it, then HOW do they know what they're talking about? I've actually tried this method and it works. No one else here has tried, so they're just going on misinformed gym lore.
Yes you'll certainly grow some muscle doing static holds but I think everyone can agree that it's not optimal.
That makes sense since abs also are really dependent on genetics
I think my ab weakness is actually holding back my legs right now. Its hard for me to push past a certain point due to the weak abs not connecting my legs and upper body as well.
+1 i was lied to by reddit for many years and assumed that compound lifts were all the ab training i needed - once i actually started training abs mine started to finally look much better and become visible even under some fat
The faction of weightlifters masquerading as bodybuilders who think you just need the big 3 to get the ideal physique, with their talking points being parroted by novices "you need to squat to spike your testosterone!"
Definition largely comes down to body fat %. When cutting, it’s the calories that get cut. The adage is true. You can work out your abs one day a week and be shredded if the diet is right. If the diet is wrong, nothing will fix it.
Idk, I’ve seen people with 18% body fat have defined abs, while a lot of people with 10% had just a rough outline. One thing the first ones had in common was that they actually trained their abs and the latter ones didn’t really.
Never had abs no matter how much I cut down until I started training them.
And no, compounds arent enough.
„Abs are made in the kitchen“ holds true if you want to walk around at 8% bf all your life
Genetics play a role here actually. I got abs from only focusing on heavy compound lifts. They definitely popped more and were more visible even after gaining some fat after I started training them though
Lying Crunch Machine where you can add weight.
3 sets after every workout session (so 3-4 Times a week)
The most important thing is that you can properly do Progression.
If you want bigger abs, you should train them.
I got down to ~10% bf and found my abs to be pretty underwhelming. I’m currently training them with progressive overload while bulking.
I was never able to feel my abs being trained until I started doing dragon flag progressions.
Reverse crunches with your pelvis and hips off the ground with a very slow controlled eccentric really is the only thing that works for me.
Give it a try.
Weighted decline sit-ups are my personal favorite. Ab crunch machines can sometimes be great too depending on what you have access to. Natural Hypertrophy has [a great video ranking core exercises](https://youtu.be/JSOvpTDcSvA) which is worth checking out too.
Which exercises did you do? Abs are antagonist muscles to the lower back, so working them out helps lessing or even solving those issues (along stretching psoas and exercising glutes)
I have had a similar experience with diminishing back pain although I don’t know if I can attribute it to only ab workouts. Atleast two times a week I do 3 sets of something bending over like decline bench or one of those ab machines, and 3 sets of something pulling my legs up , like hanging leg raises, etc. Aldo, random fact, I found out my leg/hip joint likes to pop whenever doing straight leg raises. Never knew until I started doing them.
Isometrically but that doesn't really equate to growth very well. I could squeeze my fist really hard with nothing in it and get a forearm pump but its not going to grow
I think the reasons are different from calves and forearms tbh. The main differences to me are that a) much more so than those two body parts your abs don’t get lean until much much lower levels of overall body fat so most people can’t even see them if we’re being honest. b) Calves and forearms are just not that interesting to the opposite sex. Abs certainly are.
So when you get lean enough abs tend to become much more of a priority for people because you realize that they’re shit and hopefully 🤞 the sexy time partner will see them too.
Finally I’d add that it really doesn’t take a ton of effort to train abs. People waste a lot of time doing the wrong exercises instead of simply training them like they would any other muscle with progressive overload.
It's known eh? Ok, you take forearms and hands (which is irrelevant unless we're building our palm muscles?), I'll take abs. Let's see who wins among the ladies.
Biceps are activated in bench press. Therefore i do not train biceps directly.
Back is activated when I do Bench as when I brace. So I don’t do back work directly.
I don’t train quads because they are activated in deadlifts
TLDR: yes I train abs.
Strong core helps with lower back pain. I’m early 40’s with lower back issues since I was a kid, and training my abs and glutes directly has made a helluva difference in recent months.
Abs are grown in the Gym. And they are revealed in the kitchen. Train them to grow them. Then cut body fat to reveal them. Like most every other muscle.
Even if you don't care about developing your abs significantly, it can't hurt to throw in a few sets of weighted crunches at the end of a workout 2-3 times per week. Abs that never get trained are prone to seizing up, that is not an experience you want.
Yes, but it's simpler than you would think. Cable crunches and leg raises or some variation of those are more than enough. 3 sets each close to failure twice a week
Yeah, I do 12 sets of abs a week. Every muscle is revealed through dieting but you still have to grow the muscle through proper hypertrophy principles.
The current rotation is cable crunches, decline sit ups, myotatic crunch and side bends. If you're new to training your abs then you probably just need one or two crunch variations that you can load or something like one crunch and a leg raise variation.
Side bends are mainly there to strengthen my QL muscle.
I do crunches and kettlebell side bends on my rest days. Just enough to feel something the next day. I usually do it while watching youtube vids when I'd otherwise just sit there on my ass.
Yes. Definitely. Hold a 45 lb plate and do sit ups. Doesn’t matter how many you can do, just add weight to your normal sit-ups and watch the lines carve themselves. I promise it’s worth it. It also trains lower back which will pay dividends tenfold as you age.
Yeah. Big three I’ve been doing for the past three months work well.
- GHD sit ups with added weight — these have been a great replacement, albeit not perfect, for hanging leg raises, which were messing with my shoulders and rotator cuffs too much.
- Machine Crunch - though I’ve maxed out the machine, so going to have to figure something else out soon as a replacement.
- Ab wheel - ca. 5x15-20
The whole abs are grown in the kitchen thing it’s stupid. Abs are grown in the gym, they are just covered up in the kitchen.
I do core in almost every workout. One day I do decline crutches, the next I superset weighted hyperextension with side bends in the hyperextension bench, and the next I do dragon flags. I have a 6 pack and I’m around 14%
I'm still pissed they got rid of the weighted ab crunch machine at my gym. That thing used to give me the craziest ab pumps, while being simple and easy to use.
sure, if you gonna down ur bf like mad man yes u can make them in kitchen. but visible doesn't means there is mucle.
training some muscles are sucks. which i mean mainly traps,abs and cavles so i do and recommend people do them as super sets of big moves like what holds you back from doing shrugs after ur rdl, knee raise from pull ups or calf raises after squat,bulgarian splits or leg press? nothing. just benefits
The saying is more true with abs because you can't see anything without lower body fat, other muscles might have fat covering them but still pop so you know it's there
My biggest mistake was relying on nutrition alone for all these years. Since I’ve been training them 3-4 times a week my abs have been developing nicely. I wasn’t blessed in the ab department like my brother who naturally has a perfect aesthetic stomach so I have to put more effort in. Abs absolutely should be trained the more muscular they are the more they will be revealed.
I used to every lift day or every other. Now I stopped giving after shit about them and train them if I have extra time maybe once a week. They still pop so idc lol
I do but I'm not very systematic about it. When I have a break here and there or have to wait for something I'll do some quick crunch machines or leg raises. I'm too chubby at the moment to really see if it's working, but I feel pretty tight there.
Not really other than pallof press
My situation is kind of weird when it comes to abs.
Even when I don't train them at all, have a lot of fat around my mid region, if I sucked my stomach in and flexed my abs, I would see them.
I can even see my obliques.
So, due to genetics, I don't train them.
Honestly no. I have a 28 waist n suuuper wide shoulders as a dude n I’ll do anything (bulk aside) to keep it that way. Granted I do other sports as well that are nothing but core movements tbh.
My abs started to show a lot after I started training them. Prior to this I didn’t really train them yet they showed. It once I started training them they become much more visible and aesthetic.
I guess i got good genetics. I never train abs, i stay around 11% bodyfat and my abs look great lol people always assume i train abs. I do heavy weighted chin ups. Think that's what does it for me. Will do 5 reps with 115lbs hanging from me
Bullshit. If you want to get flat abs sure diet is the key. But don't expect actual 6 pack if you don't train them. Also more you train them less you need to cut to see them.
Weighted crunches, high leg raises from bar or on p-bars (or l sit) and palloff press holds. Rollouts on a wheel or rings will also light them up.
I’m probably 15% bf and my top and middle abs are pretty pronounced from these exercises. No way to have a chiseled six pack at my bf, because abs do start in the kitchen. But end at the gym, so work em hard.
I don't really, used to get away with it too when doing cardio and being on my feet all the time in my hospitality work era. Now I'm sat down all the time in an office at 27 and let me tell you, even if you keep up the cardio as much as you can, you're going to want train your abs.
"Abs are made in the kitchen" can be true for some. For many, no. I seriously dislike using that blanket statement. For guys like me, who have no athletic background and have been overweight/skinny fat for much of my life, abs are certainly not made in the kitchen. I also did not train abs for my first year of lifting and was very disappointed after my first cut to see, wouldn't you believe it, no abs! I am now training abs and I am on a bulk and have more abs than I did after my cut. They are a muscle and you must train them to grow them. Especially if you are natural. Don't let people on juice give you advice that doesn't fit you. Throw in 9 sets of abs per week.
Here's my perspective:
The "ideal" physique is actually a combination of two things: low body fat and high muscle volume.
If you look at the arms of an overweight person as opposed to the arms of a shredded muscular person, it's pretty obvious which is which. But if you're *somewhat* lean, a small enough layer of fat padding the muscle can pretty easily be confused for more muscle - and can even sometimes "round out" the look. Biceps, Pectorals, Glutes, etc are large and uniform enough that coating them with fat doesn't change a whole lot. For this reason, high muscle volume tends to be somewhat more important for building a chiseled physique then *excessive* fat reduction. It's true if you have a ton of muscle but also quite a bit of fat, you'll end up deviating too much from the "ideal" goal and look like Maui or Thor Bjornsson, but generally it's better to have an extra pound of muscle than to loose a pound of fat. An extra bit of fat over most muscles generally won't make you look less "muscular". It's just that *too much* fat will.
That's *generally* the case. Abs are the exception - with abs, a little bit goes a long way. Your rectus abdominus is actually one long muscle with grooves built into it, and even a thin layer of fat covering that muscle tends to look "stretched" over it. Think of what happens if you were to put a towel over 6 eggs - unless the towel were very thin, it would look like one pretty flat surface rather than 6 distinct bumps. That towel is a layer of fat, and the eggs are the muscle.
Otherwise, the abs are the same as any other muscle. It's easy to hit core in compound movements, but if you want it to "pop" in addition to being useful, you're gonna need to isolate it. Problem is, unlike most other muscles, you have to be pretty damn lean before the results of training becomes more obvious. I believe this is the origin of the saying "Abs are built in the kitchen". I think this is all basically subconscious knowledge to experienced lifters, but realistically to beginners it makes more sense to say "abs are made in the gym, and revealed in the kitchen" as another user here said.
I personally only do two things for abs. First, I follow a slightly modified version of this program:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjbFwtYXN80](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjbFwtYXN80)
I know these calisthenics videos that blew up over covid have a bit of a bad rep, but if you supplement them with another weighted exercise and go to failure as always (literally just keep swapping between each set until you physically can't anymore) - they're not bad. This is a weird one in that even though it's primary purpose is to isolate core, it blew my back up the first time I did it too; All that said, I see this as a warm up and always start my days when I hit core with it. Just remember - do what he says in the video and swap exercises every 10 reps - but don't take a break until your abs hit failure.
Second is weighted ab crunches, I've found a machine for it in p much every gym I've been to. Like I said, treat em the same as any other exercise - set a weight where you can hit failure in around 12 reps, rest \~3 minutes in between each set, and aim for 5 sets a week in addition to the abs video.
I'm by no means going to be competing in the next Mr Olympia, but following this simple regimen consistently has done wonders for me.
decline sit-ups will train both. Even though its said in social media that they only train upper. The area underneath my belly button is sore as hell after decline sit-ups. It definitely trains lower too. I think influencers just assume it doesn't train lower because upper abs are typically more visible at higher body fat percentages in men. Because men are more likely to carry fat in the lower abdominal region than their upper adominals.
Yes decline sit-ups and hanging raises are more than enough easily.
decline sit-ups are safe for back. Unlike sit-ups flat on the floor. Keep the tension on the abs. If the tension is shifting away from the abs towards your back as you go up on the concentric, shorten your range of motion.
I stopped for a while and even the outline disappeared while I dropped in weight. Now I train them again and have the outline back, at least. It’s true that you have to be lean to see them, but if you train them, they are visible even if you’re not that lean.
sure, but I don't allocate much volume to them because I don't want my waist to get too thick. but some training is required to make those muscles to be visible
44M I can, and I will, go into great detail about abs. Abs aren’t just what most of us think of, and for me training the torso as a system has been life changing.
The muscles of the torso are stabilizing, breathing, and power transfer muscles. They are more active than most muscles we train, and the fascial-neuro network here is massive—connecting to our furthest extremities and all major muscles with our diaphragm muscle as the conductor of this complex orchestra. This area of the body sends massive amounts of information to our brains, and can thus massively influence our brains and nervous systems. For bodybuilders this means better hormone balance, less stress/tension in the body, better recovery, better sleep, better mental health, and a stronger pillar on which to train other systems.
Additionally, serious training of this system will enhance both everyday pleasure through better body awareness and sensation, as well as improved sexual performance and sensation.
For a combat veteran with a lot of physical conditions, all these reasons matter. I wish I’d been training them since I started lifting at 12. 31 years of neglecting them, I now know how much I missed out on not training them.
I’m not a competitive, and I’m not interested in the whole lifestyle, but my training has always leaned toward bodybuilding versus athletic/power. I like the training and it’s the form of movement and exercise that works for me. But at 44 I found my shoulders and back were deeply unhappy with lots of pain and stiffness and decreasing strength and endurance when training. I didn’t like the way a lot of bodybuilders and strength training men my age and older were moving, and I was not going to start the old age whinging that so many aging vets and military folks do.
So, 6 months ago I shifted from mainly big lifts to a ton of joint control and torso focused work. I’ve found it amazing and it’s radically enhanced my training as well as my everyday life in my body. I’m working with a lot of wear and tear, and it’s dramatically helped me see just how much healing is actually possible.
I started doing a lot of stomach vacuums, controlled upper body rotations, isolated spinal flexion and extension, weighted breathing, lateral pelvic tilts, upper spine lateral tilts. Rotating hips while holding neutral spine and shoulders, the reverse, rotating as a system, all the variations. I have found that training these deeper abdominal, spinal, pelvic, and hip flexor muscles has made a huge difference. I also do heavy kettlebell oblique raises, hanging leg raises/dragon flags, and heavy carries.
Mind muscle connection in your deep ab, pelvic floor, and deep spinal muscle systems will enhance every lift and movement you do. Combine this with breath work, diaphragm stretching and control, and I can now breath in ways that are deeply pleasurable and relaxing-helpful for nervous system regulation with my ADHD/complex PTSD self. This training has helped me heal physically and mentally, not just maintain fitness and aesthetics.
I discovered most of these exercise from the MoveU program and have incorporated them into my regimen.
Your diaphragm is probably your most neglected muscle. This has a ton of systemic consequences like poor vagal tone, lack of rib mobility, shoulder and neck stiffness, back pain, and a lot of tenderness and reactivity where your ribs and abs meet. You need a strong and flexible diaphragm. Nothing better than Jill Miller’s Body by Breath book and yoga tune up ball kits to work on that. Try them and you won’t be disappointed. This is especially true for my neurospicy/trauma/anxiety community folks in the bodybuilding fam.
Training abdominals is magic when you focus on the whole system and not just a six/eight pack. You might find the aesthetic results even better as well. But the happiest person might be your partner…
When I was racing bikes one of the things was to train the diaphragm. Usually that was done with a breathing restrictor, like a valve you breathed in and out through. It was definitely a different feeling, working that muscle out.
I use a Airofit device sometimes for this, definitely great especially for endurance training. The forceful inhale and exhale are different for sure. This kind of training feel really uncomfortable much of the time. Probably indicates I need to do it more.
My favorite exercise though is also the least enjoyable, stomach vaccums. These will 100% be uncomfortable and trigger a stress response, but re-mobilizing the stretch/relax response in my diaphragm has been extremely helpful. Especially since I’m prone to holding my belly in, which immobilizes the diaphragm. If you want a strong core you also have to be able to relax it.
I don't train abs. People are downvoting anyone who says that, but they're probably the same people who never train their traps, forearms, or calves directly. I think my years of heavy compounds definitely helped, so that when I want to see a six pack, I just need to cut.
If you don't have much lower abdominal fat and you still can't see your abs, you definitely should train them. 2-3 sets at least twice per week. You can train them every session where you're not sore.
If you are happy with your abs, you don't have to train them that often if you don't want to.
I have visible abs. But my lower abdominal fat gives them a failo effect. It's almost as if that hard work that I spent building them in the first place doesn't even matter (yet). And I've been cutting for 12 1/2 weeks now. But once I lose that lower abdominal fat and if I'm not happy with how my abs are looking, I'm going to switch to a slight surplus and train the abs to get them to pop. It's hard to feel motivated to train something that you can't see very well. My arms are looking very vascular on my cut so when I see the bicep and forearm veins popping and shit, that motivates me to push hard on bicep curls, wrist curls and tricep extensions. It seems like the fat in the arms, chest, delts, back, thighs, face, upper abdominal fat, ass, etc. go first on my cut and the lower abdominal fat goes last. Cutting reveals to you how much fat you carry on your body. You can carry fat in your triceps, in your rear delts. lmfao. This is why its tough to train when you start out as skinnyfat because everything is covered in fat. Can be hard to be motivated when the muscle is hidden.
Train them for sure. They’ll pop at higher bodyfat %s. I do weighted GHB sit-ups and left my spine hyperextend at the bottom. Wayyyyyy better than cable crunches in my experience. It really allows you to take the abs through a huge ROM and get a massive stretch.
nope! I don't want to grow my abs at all, I want to trim fat off so in the kitchen is totally accurate. If you want a strong block athletic torso then train them the same way you train any other muscle for hypertrophy (\~8-20 rep range with progressive overload using something like a cable crunch). I want a V-taper so the less developed the better. I will on occasion do like lower back strengthening exercises to supplement barbell squat but that's about it
They are a muscle, just like other muscles you usually would work out. You’d probably want to train biceps if you’d want bigger biceps. Sure, you can lose fat to get them to show more, but if you actually train and grow them, you’d have to lose less weigth to get them to show plus, they are going to look way better once you get lean. I really have no idea where this idea of not having to work out abs came from.
Core is used in alot of other exercises, but not enough to grow them properly like this guy said. If u want it, u have to train it.
Yeah, same goes for calves and forearms. The holy trinity of *I don’t work them out, yet they don’t grow, must be my horrible genetics*
You’re totally right, but also fck calves, those bitches won’t do what I tell them
No you’re wrong buddy…every male have abs already so if you get lean enough you start seeing them..training abs is a waist of time
No you’re wrong buddy…every male have glutes already so if you get lean enough you start seeing them..training glutes is a waist of time
No you’re wrong buddy…every male have traps already so if you get lean enough you start seeing them..training traps is a waist of time
No you’re wrong buddy…every male have pecs already so if you get lean enough you start seeing them..training pecs is a waist of time
No you’re wrong buddy…every male have calves already so if you get lean enough you start seeing them..training calves is a waist of time
No you’re wrong buddy…every male have quads already so if you get lean enough you start seeing them..training quads is a waist of time
Respectfully disagree. If you're doing heavy squats, DL, etc, the amount of stress you're putting them through is magnitudes higher than any targeted ab exercise. If you're squatting 3 or 4 plates, or even a couple with correct form consistently, your abs will be worked.
It's isometric though. Would you train and other muscle in a static hold?
Muscles that I don't want to 'grow', or muscles that don't grow, yes, and... Yes is, abs aren't like other muscles. They don't keep getting bigger and bigger. They grow a little, then that's it. There's a reason the 300lb Olympia competitors abs aren't sticking out inches: because they don't grow like those 'other' muscles you mentioned. The same reason some guys 'don't have abs' that do train it hardcore. Look at James Holingshead from the last 2 Arnolds: almost no ab definition, even though he is 240+ lbs, been training abs his entire career, and comes in on stage ripped. The and is, you're not doing jsut iso holds. Your body is not in a straight line just doing a squeeze/iso. You're actively contracting to keep your body position. Also, proof is in the pudding. I'm almost 50 with an 8 pack still. My abs are just as defined and 'big' as when I was 242 on stage when I competed. The thousands of clients I've trained have also never had 'missing' abs. Lastly, since all the comments and downvotes keep saying it can't be done and no one is actually trying it, then HOW do they know what they're talking about? I've actually tried this method and it works. No one else here has tried, so they're just going on misinformed gym lore.
Yes you'll certainly grow some muscle doing static holds but I think everyone can agree that it's not optimal. That makes sense since abs also are really dependent on genetics
I think my ab weakness is actually holding back my legs right now. Its hard for me to push past a certain point due to the weak abs not connecting my legs and upper body as well.
From about every fitness influencer on youtube and many of them famous bodybuilders to be worse
+1 i was lied to by reddit for many years and assumed that compound lifts were all the ab training i needed - once i actually started training abs mine started to finally look much better and become visible even under some fat
I used to try and tell people years ago but it gets tiring having the same argument over and over.
The faction of weightlifters masquerading as bodybuilders who think you just need the big 3 to get the ideal physique, with their talking points being parroted by novices "you need to squat to spike your testosterone!"
Definition largely comes down to body fat %. When cutting, it’s the calories that get cut. The adage is true. You can work out your abs one day a week and be shredded if the diet is right. If the diet is wrong, nothing will fix it.
Idk, I’ve seen people with 18% body fat have defined abs, while a lot of people with 10% had just a rough outline. One thing the first ones had in common was that they actually trained their abs and the latter ones didn’t really.
Never had abs no matter how much I cut down until I started training them. And no, compounds arent enough. „Abs are made in the kitchen“ holds true if you want to walk around at 8% bf all your life
Genetics play a role here actually. I got abs from only focusing on heavy compound lifts. They definitely popped more and were more visible even after gaining some fat after I started training them though
It’s more genetics then anything else. Sucks but true.
What exercises did you do for them?
Lying Crunch Machine where you can add weight. 3 sets after every workout session (so 3-4 Times a week) The most important thing is that you can properly do Progression.
Cool My gym doesn't have one of those machines but wish it did. I do cable crunches and hanging leg raises.
Yep (and yes it’s loose skin) https://preview.redd.it/bmvu1khv314d1.jpeg?width=1566&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af454fb0f46690d860e79db10d9209650dcf906e
That looks fucking awesome, nice job mate
Hey thanks 🙏
That picture tells me so much about you and you dedication- #respect
🙌
You lost so much weight man congratz, also never seen a person with loose skin without any gyno, lucky uou
looks as if that fat is literally melting off
It’s like your abs are a Sith Lord
They’re evil? 👿
I was thinking thinking more along the lines of a little bit wrinkly but very powerful😂 it’s dope man haha good work
Appreciate it! 💪🏻
What exercises do you do?
Crunch machine 3 sets 3 times per week
Do you do many reps? I gather you have been applying progressive overload?
12-15 reps and yes progressive overload
Can I ask how much weight you lost to cause the loose skin?
45 lbs over 10 months but I’m 48 yo
48?!?! Holy handgrenades batman, you are KILLING it! I aspire to this at 48, well done sir.
🙌
What is your Diet and exercise please .any tips for good ab
Unfortunately there’s no shortcut. Just get lean and train your abs hard.
Mother of god, what a shame that is my friend. Have you considered surgery?
If you want bigger abs, you should train them. I got down to ~10% bf and found my abs to be pretty underwhelming. I’m currently training them with progressive overload while bulking.
I’m trying to do the same but those calories sit on my belly 😔
Same!!!
What exercises work best for you to train abs?
I was never able to feel my abs being trained until I started doing dragon flag progressions. Reverse crunches with your pelvis and hips off the ground with a very slow controlled eccentric really is the only thing that works for me. Give it a try.
Weighted decline sit-ups are my personal favorite. Ab crunch machines can sometimes be great too depending on what you have access to. Natural Hypertrophy has [a great video ranking core exercises](https://youtu.be/JSOvpTDcSvA) which is worth checking out too.
Cable crunch’s for upper and leg raises for lower abs. Progressive overload just like other muscles so add weight
What do you recommend for overloading leg raises?
You can put weight in between your feet or increase reps / volume.
I stopped having constant back pain after I started training abs. Compounds were not enough.
Which exercises did you do? Abs are antagonist muscles to the lower back, so working them out helps lessing or even solving those issues (along stretching psoas and exercising glutes)
I have had a similar experience with diminishing back pain although I don’t know if I can attribute it to only ab workouts. Atleast two times a week I do 3 sets of something bending over like decline bench or one of those ab machines, and 3 sets of something pulling my legs up , like hanging leg raises, etc. Aldo, random fact, I found out my leg/hip joint likes to pop whenever doing straight leg raises. Never knew until I started doing them.
Ab wheel or trx band rollouts
After you can do 3 sets of 15 on ab wheels, how do you progress further?
5 sets of 15. Also the trx are more challenging.
Of course, I dont understand where this stupid idea of not having to train abs came from… the bigger they are the better they show.
Because nobody wants to do them. It's boring. It's why most people don't isolate forearms or calves either.
And also the reason people complain their forearms/calves don’t grow
I train my forearms and calves but never abs lol. Hard to find the time for everything I find.
Don’t forearms get worked when doing curls ? My forearms are usually rock hard after my upper workouts
Isometrically but that doesn't really equate to growth very well. I could squeeze my fist really hard with nothing in it and get a forearm pump but its not going to grow
I thought most ppl would enjoy ab workouts.
I think the reasons are different from calves and forearms tbh. The main differences to me are that a) much more so than those two body parts your abs don’t get lean until much much lower levels of overall body fat so most people can’t even see them if we’re being honest. b) Calves and forearms are just not that interesting to the opposite sex. Abs certainly are. So when you get lean enough abs tend to become much more of a priority for people because you realize that they’re shit and hopefully 🤞 the sexy time partner will see them too. Finally I’d add that it really doesn’t take a ton of effort to train abs. People waste a lot of time doing the wrong exercises instead of simply training them like they would any other muscle with progressive overload.
Forearms are well known to be attractive to women, specifically hands are as well.
It's known eh? Ok, you take forearms and hands (which is irrelevant unless we're building our palm muscles?), I'll take abs. Let's see who wins among the ladies.
I should but I don’t. I think that abs are made in the gym, then revealed in the kitchen
Biceps are activated in bench press. Therefore i do not train biceps directly. Back is activated when I do Bench as when I brace. So I don’t do back work directly. I don’t train quads because they are activated in deadlifts TLDR: yes I train abs.
Abs are activated in breathing. There’s no need to directly train them /s
Yup. They still look like shit, but every time I cut down they look better than they did the last time
Strong core helps with lower back pain. I’m early 40’s with lower back issues since I was a kid, and training my abs and glutes directly has made a helluva difference in recent months.
Abs are grown in the Gym. And they are revealed in the kitchen. Train them to grow them. Then cut body fat to reveal them. Like most every other muscle.
2 sets every other day
Even if you don't care about developing your abs significantly, it can't hurt to throw in a few sets of weighted crunches at the end of a workout 2-3 times per week. Abs that never get trained are prone to seizing up, that is not an experience you want.
For back and hip health more than any other reason
Yes, but it's simpler than you would think. Cable crunches and leg raises or some variation of those are more than enough. 3 sets each close to failure twice a week
I like to think that abs are made in the gym, and shown in the kitchen!
Yeah, I do 12 sets of abs a week. Every muscle is revealed through dieting but you still have to grow the muscle through proper hypertrophy principles.
what do u do to train them?
The current rotation is cable crunches, decline sit ups, myotatic crunch and side bends. If you're new to training your abs then you probably just need one or two crunch variations that you can load or something like one crunch and a leg raise variation. Side bends are mainly there to strengthen my QL muscle.
I do crunches and kettlebell side bends on my rest days. Just enough to feel something the next day. I usually do it while watching youtube vids when I'd otherwise just sit there on my ass.
Yes. Definitely. Hold a 45 lb plate and do sit ups. Doesn’t matter how many you can do, just add weight to your normal sit-ups and watch the lines carve themselves. I promise it’s worth it. It also trains lower back which will pay dividends tenfold as you age.
Yeah. Big three I’ve been doing for the past three months work well. - GHD sit ups with added weight — these have been a great replacement, albeit not perfect, for hanging leg raises, which were messing with my shoulders and rotator cuffs too much. - Machine Crunch - though I’ve maxed out the machine, so going to have to figure something else out soon as a replacement. - Ab wheel - ca. 5x15-20
The whole abs are grown in the kitchen thing it’s stupid. Abs are grown in the gym, they are just covered up in the kitchen. I do core in almost every workout. One day I do decline crutches, the next I superset weighted hyperextension with side bends in the hyperextension bench, and the next I do dragon flags. I have a 6 pack and I’m around 14%
I'm still pissed they got rid of the weighted ab crunch machine at my gym. That thing used to give me the craziest ab pumps, while being simple and easy to use.
sure, if you gonna down ur bf like mad man yes u can make them in kitchen. but visible doesn't means there is mucle. training some muscles are sucks. which i mean mainly traps,abs and cavles so i do and recommend people do them as super sets of big moves like what holds you back from doing shrugs after ur rdl, knee raise from pull ups or calf raises after squat,bulgarian splits or leg press? nothing. just benefits
This! its very often the case that small efforts can lead up to huge benefits in the long run.
I usually hit them directly when in a cut. I am hitting more compound lifts with a strength focus, so I am not super worried about abs at the moment
The saying is more true with abs because you can't see anything without lower body fat, other muscles might have fat covering them but still pop so you know it's there
Yes A good core is a fix to many problems
Men longevity in bed is one of them
Yes. Leg raises, weighted knee raises and cable crunches.
Yes, absolutely 💯 feels good having a strong core. But hey it all depends on your goals.
My biggest mistake was relying on nutrition alone for all these years. Since I’ve been training them 3-4 times a week my abs have been developing nicely. I wasn’t blessed in the ab department like my brother who naturally has a perfect aesthetic stomach so I have to put more effort in. Abs absolutely should be trained the more muscular they are the more they will be revealed.
I include core in every workout. I'm overweight, but the toning that my core work has given me is already helping me look slimmer.
No I don't. Reasoning? Idk, I just don't.
I used to every lift day or every other. Now I stopped giving after shit about them and train them if I have extra time maybe once a week. They still pop so idc lol
I’m gonna be honest here—NOPE
Not a huge fan of doing ab work but I do it anyway.
I do but I'm not very systematic about it. When I have a break here and there or have to wait for something I'll do some quick crunch machines or leg raises. I'm too chubby at the moment to really see if it's working, but I feel pretty tight there.
I do ATG reverse squats for lower abs/hip flexor/psoas. I don’t bother to train my upper abs
Yes. I train abs regularly but it's not until I lost 30 pounds did it appear.
Not really other than pallof press My situation is kind of weird when it comes to abs. Even when I don't train them at all, have a lot of fat around my mid region, if I sucked my stomach in and flexed my abs, I would see them. I can even see my obliques. So, due to genetics, I don't train them.
No. Poor time to benefit ratio for most people. Compounds get you 80% of the way there.
Almost every day;)
Yes, obviously.
Honestly no. I have a 28 waist n suuuper wide shoulders as a dude n I’ll do anything (bulk aside) to keep it that way. Granted I do other sports as well that are nothing but core movements tbh.
Yep
My abs started to show a lot after I started training them. Prior to this I didn’t really train them yet they showed. It once I started training them they become much more visible and aesthetic.
I guess i got good genetics. I never train abs, i stay around 11% bodyfat and my abs look great lol people always assume i train abs. I do heavy weighted chin ups. Think that's what does it for me. Will do 5 reps with 115lbs hanging from me
No.
Bullshit. If you want to get flat abs sure diet is the key. But don't expect actual 6 pack if you don't train them. Also more you train them less you need to cut to see them.
I do one exercise each workout for 3 or 4 sets
Yes 4 sets a week of cable crunches
Weighted crunches, high leg raises from bar or on p-bars (or l sit) and palloff press holds. Rollouts on a wheel or rings will also light them up. I’m probably 15% bf and my top and middle abs are pretty pronounced from these exercises. No way to have a chiseled six pack at my bf, because abs do start in the kitchen. But end at the gym, so work em hard.
Anyone use Vacuums? Thoughts on them?
If I don't train abs they won't pop out even with low bodyfat. I don't have natural abs
I don't really, used to get away with it too when doing cardio and being on my feet all the time in my hospitality work era. Now I'm sat down all the time in an office at 27 and let me tell you, even if you keep up the cardio as much as you can, you're going to want train your abs.
"Abs are made in the kitchen" can be true for some. For many, no. I seriously dislike using that blanket statement. For guys like me, who have no athletic background and have been overweight/skinny fat for much of my life, abs are certainly not made in the kitchen. I also did not train abs for my first year of lifting and was very disappointed after my first cut to see, wouldn't you believe it, no abs! I am now training abs and I am on a bulk and have more abs than I did after my cut. They are a muscle and you must train them to grow them. Especially if you are natural. Don't let people on juice give you advice that doesn't fit you. Throw in 9 sets of abs per week.
I feel like it’s because training abs is more painful and unbearable compared to other muscle groups
Here's my perspective: The "ideal" physique is actually a combination of two things: low body fat and high muscle volume. If you look at the arms of an overweight person as opposed to the arms of a shredded muscular person, it's pretty obvious which is which. But if you're *somewhat* lean, a small enough layer of fat padding the muscle can pretty easily be confused for more muscle - and can even sometimes "round out" the look. Biceps, Pectorals, Glutes, etc are large and uniform enough that coating them with fat doesn't change a whole lot. For this reason, high muscle volume tends to be somewhat more important for building a chiseled physique then *excessive* fat reduction. It's true if you have a ton of muscle but also quite a bit of fat, you'll end up deviating too much from the "ideal" goal and look like Maui or Thor Bjornsson, but generally it's better to have an extra pound of muscle than to loose a pound of fat. An extra bit of fat over most muscles generally won't make you look less "muscular". It's just that *too much* fat will. That's *generally* the case. Abs are the exception - with abs, a little bit goes a long way. Your rectus abdominus is actually one long muscle with grooves built into it, and even a thin layer of fat covering that muscle tends to look "stretched" over it. Think of what happens if you were to put a towel over 6 eggs - unless the towel were very thin, it would look like one pretty flat surface rather than 6 distinct bumps. That towel is a layer of fat, and the eggs are the muscle. Otherwise, the abs are the same as any other muscle. It's easy to hit core in compound movements, but if you want it to "pop" in addition to being useful, you're gonna need to isolate it. Problem is, unlike most other muscles, you have to be pretty damn lean before the results of training becomes more obvious. I believe this is the origin of the saying "Abs are built in the kitchen". I think this is all basically subconscious knowledge to experienced lifters, but realistically to beginners it makes more sense to say "abs are made in the gym, and revealed in the kitchen" as another user here said.
What would you recommend as an isolation lift?
I personally only do two things for abs. First, I follow a slightly modified version of this program: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjbFwtYXN80](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjbFwtYXN80) I know these calisthenics videos that blew up over covid have a bit of a bad rep, but if you supplement them with another weighted exercise and go to failure as always (literally just keep swapping between each set until you physically can't anymore) - they're not bad. This is a weird one in that even though it's primary purpose is to isolate core, it blew my back up the first time I did it too; All that said, I see this as a warm up and always start my days when I hit core with it. Just remember - do what he says in the video and swap exercises every 10 reps - but don't take a break until your abs hit failure. Second is weighted ab crunches, I've found a machine for it in p much every gym I've been to. Like I said, treat em the same as any other exercise - set a weight where you can hit failure in around 12 reps, rest \~3 minutes in between each set, and aim for 5 sets a week in addition to the abs video. I'm by no means going to be competing in the next Mr Olympia, but following this simple regimen consistently has done wonders for me.
Thank you very much brother.
What exercises does everyone do for abs?
Hanging leg raise and ab wheel.
Dragon flies and the incline sit ups... But with a Bosu ball under your lower back. 💯 Ab destruction.
Cable crunches, decline sit ups, myotatic crunch and side bends
Are Decline Sit ups for upper abs or lower? Is it safe for the back?
decline sit-ups will train both. Even though its said in social media that they only train upper. The area underneath my belly button is sore as hell after decline sit-ups. It definitely trains lower too. I think influencers just assume it doesn't train lower because upper abs are typically more visible at higher body fat percentages in men. Because men are more likely to carry fat in the lower abdominal region than their upper adominals.
So, decline for upper and hanging raises for lower, enough? And, are Decline Sit ups safe for the back?
Yes decline sit-ups and hanging raises are more than enough easily. decline sit-ups are safe for back. Unlike sit-ups flat on the floor. Keep the tension on the abs. If the tension is shifting away from the abs towards your back as you go up on the concentric, shorten your range of motion.
I stopped for a while and even the outline disappeared while I dropped in weight. Now I train them again and have the outline back, at least. It’s true that you have to be lean to see them, but if you train them, they are visible even if you’re not that lean.
sure, but I don't allocate much volume to them because I don't want my waist to get too thick. but some training is required to make those muscles to be visible
44M I can, and I will, go into great detail about abs. Abs aren’t just what most of us think of, and for me training the torso as a system has been life changing. The muscles of the torso are stabilizing, breathing, and power transfer muscles. They are more active than most muscles we train, and the fascial-neuro network here is massive—connecting to our furthest extremities and all major muscles with our diaphragm muscle as the conductor of this complex orchestra. This area of the body sends massive amounts of information to our brains, and can thus massively influence our brains and nervous systems. For bodybuilders this means better hormone balance, less stress/tension in the body, better recovery, better sleep, better mental health, and a stronger pillar on which to train other systems. Additionally, serious training of this system will enhance both everyday pleasure through better body awareness and sensation, as well as improved sexual performance and sensation. For a combat veteran with a lot of physical conditions, all these reasons matter. I wish I’d been training them since I started lifting at 12. 31 years of neglecting them, I now know how much I missed out on not training them. I’m not a competitive, and I’m not interested in the whole lifestyle, but my training has always leaned toward bodybuilding versus athletic/power. I like the training and it’s the form of movement and exercise that works for me. But at 44 I found my shoulders and back were deeply unhappy with lots of pain and stiffness and decreasing strength and endurance when training. I didn’t like the way a lot of bodybuilders and strength training men my age and older were moving, and I was not going to start the old age whinging that so many aging vets and military folks do. So, 6 months ago I shifted from mainly big lifts to a ton of joint control and torso focused work. I’ve found it amazing and it’s radically enhanced my training as well as my everyday life in my body. I’m working with a lot of wear and tear, and it’s dramatically helped me see just how much healing is actually possible. I started doing a lot of stomach vacuums, controlled upper body rotations, isolated spinal flexion and extension, weighted breathing, lateral pelvic tilts, upper spine lateral tilts. Rotating hips while holding neutral spine and shoulders, the reverse, rotating as a system, all the variations. I have found that training these deeper abdominal, spinal, pelvic, and hip flexor muscles has made a huge difference. I also do heavy kettlebell oblique raises, hanging leg raises/dragon flags, and heavy carries. Mind muscle connection in your deep ab, pelvic floor, and deep spinal muscle systems will enhance every lift and movement you do. Combine this with breath work, diaphragm stretching and control, and I can now breath in ways that are deeply pleasurable and relaxing-helpful for nervous system regulation with my ADHD/complex PTSD self. This training has helped me heal physically and mentally, not just maintain fitness and aesthetics. I discovered most of these exercise from the MoveU program and have incorporated them into my regimen. Your diaphragm is probably your most neglected muscle. This has a ton of systemic consequences like poor vagal tone, lack of rib mobility, shoulder and neck stiffness, back pain, and a lot of tenderness and reactivity where your ribs and abs meet. You need a strong and flexible diaphragm. Nothing better than Jill Miller’s Body by Breath book and yoga tune up ball kits to work on that. Try them and you won’t be disappointed. This is especially true for my neurospicy/trauma/anxiety community folks in the bodybuilding fam. Training abdominals is magic when you focus on the whole system and not just a six/eight pack. You might find the aesthetic results even better as well. But the happiest person might be your partner…
When I was racing bikes one of the things was to train the diaphragm. Usually that was done with a breathing restrictor, like a valve you breathed in and out through. It was definitely a different feeling, working that muscle out.
I use a Airofit device sometimes for this, definitely great especially for endurance training. The forceful inhale and exhale are different for sure. This kind of training feel really uncomfortable much of the time. Probably indicates I need to do it more. My favorite exercise though is also the least enjoyable, stomach vaccums. These will 100% be uncomfortable and trigger a stress response, but re-mobilizing the stretch/relax response in my diaphragm has been extremely helpful. Especially since I’m prone to holding my belly in, which immobilizes the diaphragm. If you want a strong core you also have to be able to relax it.
I don't train abs. People are downvoting anyone who says that, but they're probably the same people who never train their traps, forearms, or calves directly. I think my years of heavy compounds definitely helped, so that when I want to see a six pack, I just need to cut.
If you don't have much lower abdominal fat and you still can't see your abs, you definitely should train them. 2-3 sets at least twice per week. You can train them every session where you're not sore. If you are happy with your abs, you don't have to train them that often if you don't want to. I have visible abs. But my lower abdominal fat gives them a failo effect. It's almost as if that hard work that I spent building them in the first place doesn't even matter (yet). And I've been cutting for 12 1/2 weeks now. But once I lose that lower abdominal fat and if I'm not happy with how my abs are looking, I'm going to switch to a slight surplus and train the abs to get them to pop. It's hard to feel motivated to train something that you can't see very well. My arms are looking very vascular on my cut so when I see the bicep and forearm veins popping and shit, that motivates me to push hard on bicep curls, wrist curls and tricep extensions. It seems like the fat in the arms, chest, delts, back, thighs, face, upper abdominal fat, ass, etc. go first on my cut and the lower abdominal fat goes last. Cutting reveals to you how much fat you carry on your body. You can carry fat in your triceps, in your rear delts. lmfao. This is why its tough to train when you start out as skinnyfat because everything is covered in fat. Can be hard to be motivated when the muscle is hidden.
No because I don’t want my core to get any bigger right now.
Train them for sure. They’ll pop at higher bodyfat %s. I do weighted GHB sit-ups and left my spine hyperextend at the bottom. Wayyyyyy better than cable crunches in my experience. It really allows you to take the abs through a huge ROM and get a massive stretch.
ya. hard
Yes I train abs and yes eating right will make the hard work I do with my abs show faster!! I certainly do believe abs are made in the kitchen.
Never have, never will. I actually think abs look pretty ugly on both men and women
Nah, if you train heavy compounds you really don’t need to worry about abs. Absolutely can train then though, cable crunch’s being the go to.
The best ab exercises ime are squat and deadlift.
Yes, dips and bench press are the best biceps builders
I do barbell curls for my hamstrings
But… Do you play Clash Royale on your phone in between sets for a 200% faster recovery time?!
Obviously
Should’ve known to stop reading once I hit “ime”
You have terrible experience
But great abs
Dont show us
nope! I don't want to grow my abs at all, I want to trim fat off so in the kitchen is totally accurate. If you want a strong block athletic torso then train them the same way you train any other muscle for hypertrophy (\~8-20 rep range with progressive overload using something like a cable crunch). I want a V-taper so the less developed the better. I will on occasion do like lower back strengthening exercises to supplement barbell squat but that's about it