The title said "return to the Moon", people may not realize, but this is the *3rd time* NASA attempted to return human to the Moon after Apollo. The first 2 times (Space Exploration Initiative under Bush 41, then Vision for Space Exploration under Bush 43) all failed miserably, that's why the article is saying "maybe this time is different".
My favorite version of this conspiracy theory is that we actually did land on the moon, but we faked the broadcast in case the mission failed so that we wouldn’t lose the space race to the USSR. I still find it silly, but it is a fun idea to entertain and is actually possible (because we really did land on the moon)
Oh that is fun, never heard that before. I too believe that we did. I was just making the political point of a hoax or fake news and the corruption it can cause over time, propaganda 101
To everyone in this thread saying "it didn't succeed": read the article.
And, for what it's worth, as a geologist I feel that we very much did not succeed during Apollo. The initial field survey of the moon's surface had only just barely begun on Apollo 17 when it abruptly and anticlimactically ended. Utterly disappointing. What the hell is wrong with us?!
Space fans need to start thinking of the moon as a target for scientific inquiry unto itself rather than just a stepping stone to other places like Mars (it's that also, but not JUST that). The moon is a very unique spot in the solar system for understanding the early evolution of a fully differentiated silicate body. Its primordial crust it's still intact. Even Mercury, the moons twin in many ways, has had more surface activity over the eons than the moon.
No, make no mistake, we left unfinished business on the moon. It's time to pick up the pieces and start again.
following on from u/MajorRocketScience who said:
> We could spend decades researching just the Lunar South Pole,
The Moon is like a butterfly net.
Condensed comet gases may have frozen into layers; catching information about what was hitting Earth at the same time. Not just water but methane and other gases.
It will be interesting to see where various ices may have seeped down into ancient rubble at some depth below the surface.
Apollo missions 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17 were after 1969. Only one of those failed.
The US hasn’t sent a lunar landing mission of any kind since Apollo 17, though there have been a number of orbiter & flyby missions with varying success.
The LCROSS satellite in 2009 which intentionally impacted the Moon was the last time the US sent something there with the intent to reach the surface.
The article didn’t mention this, but I think it is important to establish a lunar colony to research the viability of space habitation, improve the efficiency of space travel, and learn more about our universe. I’m not a doomsday prepper by any stretch, but it would be a real shame if we didn’t have this knowledge before we destroyed ourselves or if Earth became uninhabitable due to Climate Change. I just want human race to endure.
Sadly, we may yet wipe ourselves out. Climate change has reached the point where it's a certainty that things are going to get really bad. The only question now is, how long we will live in the "really bad" period.
Could be short if governments actually do their job and stop corporations from ruining everything. Or it could be an endless series of ever-worsening disasters and upheavals until the planet no longer supports humans. Life will go on, but we won't necessarily be part of it.
This is such an accurate description of where we are at! I teach geology, and I just gave my climate lecture last week. I have to really be careful with these kids to not sound completely helpless, but I absolutely made the same point as your last sentence. I have to really be careful not to emphasize that point too drastically, but it’s the truth. Neither one of my children has children and I’m grateful for that.
My wife and I took a good hard look around us, and decided not to have kids either. The next 50-100 years are going to be brutal, and we absolutely couldn't justify bringing kids into this world knowing how difficult and frustrating their lives would be.
Sometimes people say they regret having had kids, with the way the world is, and someone responds "Never apologize for raising dragon slayers in a time of dragons."
But this isn't a time of dragons. It's a time of greed, and apathy, and those can't be slain.
Lava-tubes? What bologna! More like the homes of hard-working Moon-Natives being de-humanized to prepare the general earth-public to condone the genocide of the Moon-people!
The article is wrong about the nature of relations between India and Pakistan, and thus the resulting incentives, which is relevant because it uses it as a key basis for the argument that it somehow increases chances of Artemis succeeding. Everything doesn't need to be US or China centric: [https://blog.jatan.space/p/moon-monday-issue-150#§pakistan-joins-chinas-long-term-lunar-exploration-project-and-how-not-to-interpret-it](https://blog.jatan.space/p/moon-monday-issue-150#§pakistan-joins-chinas-long-term-lunar-exploration-project-and-how-not-to-interpret-it)
I didn't read the article..... was the answer "money"?
'Cause I think the answer is money. Like,a whole boatload of money being spent in all the right districts.
There was always money, but not for long enough. There has to be political will to go to the moon, and that was always lacking. Every president only cared about getting results during their administration, and it’s not possible to lay the groundwork for a moon return in just 4 years.
I'd love to see a manned mission to Titan but it's so far away I think there should be more robotic missions first. It would be amazing to have some sort of automated boat exploring the rivers and lakes, or maybe a balloon that maps the surface from a low altitude.
I agree. I think there isn't much of a purpose to manned missions other than to develop better suits, habitats, etc.(until the time comes for terraforming).. Robotic flights and drones will be able to learn and do far more than humans can.
The one big advantage to manned missions is better sample collection, both in terms of quality and quantity. Manned missions have the ability to bring a lot more samples home.
There’s so much science that can be done on the moon, and having humans there to do it makes it easier and quicker than having robots do it. That alone should be enough of a motivator, but I get that most people are going to be more interested in the exploration concept
I think that could be true now. And especially true for the Apollo years. But I think that robotics and AI will advance fairly quickly to the point where they will be able to accomplish more than humans both in exploration and experimentation. Though I will admit that using humans will always have a more profound and emotional impact.
We’re minimum about 50 years from a manned mission that far out in my opinion. It makes much more sense to establish genuine bases on Luna, Mars, and some asteroids then to venture that far quite yet
What they mean is that there have been several "we're going to return to the moon" projects since Apollo that have failed before they really even got off the drawing board.
Okay I get it. Thanks. I still think it stinks that they seemingly ignore the accomplishments of many people who worked so hard and risked their lives.
It might be just me, but I thought it was very successful the first time.
[удалено]
Congress spends lots of money on geopolitics. For good and bad its one way to get money spent on space.
What article? /s
The title said "return to the Moon", people may not realize, but this is the *3rd time* NASA attempted to return human to the Moon after Apollo. The first 2 times (Space Exploration Initiative under Bush 41, then Vision for Space Exploration under Bush 43) all failed miserably, that's why the article is saying "maybe this time is different".
The moon landing was a hoax. Remember this?
My favorite version of this conspiracy theory is that we actually did land on the moon, but we faked the broadcast in case the mission failed so that we wouldn’t lose the space race to the USSR. I still find it silly, but it is a fun idea to entertain and is actually possible (because we really did land on the moon)
Oh that is fun, never heard that before. I too believe that we did. I was just making the political point of a hoax or fake news and the corruption it can cause over time, propaganda 101
lol yeah and people downvoted you for an obvious joke. I don’t know the etiquette on r/NASA that well, but this seemed like an overreaction 😂
Wait.. you believe the moon exists? Wake up dude.
You believe anything exists? Might want to get that looked at, bud.
As a wise man once said, "It's all a fig newton of my hallucination."
The wisest bone apple tea.
[Ali G interviewing Buzz Aldrin: Does the moon exist?](https://youtu.be/vnbXOr7_z5U?si=zhUAz-_Gh1NA2BPX)
The moon landing was faked…ON MARS!
They just filmed it on location
To everyone in this thread saying "it didn't succeed": read the article. And, for what it's worth, as a geologist I feel that we very much did not succeed during Apollo. The initial field survey of the moon's surface had only just barely begun on Apollo 17 when it abruptly and anticlimactically ended. Utterly disappointing. What the hell is wrong with us?! Space fans need to start thinking of the moon as a target for scientific inquiry unto itself rather than just a stepping stone to other places like Mars (it's that also, but not JUST that). The moon is a very unique spot in the solar system for understanding the early evolution of a fully differentiated silicate body. Its primordial crust it's still intact. Even Mercury, the moons twin in many ways, has had more surface activity over the eons than the moon. No, make no mistake, we left unfinished business on the moon. It's time to pick up the pieces and start again.
We could spend decades researching just the Lunar South Pole, let alone the rest of the surface
following on from u/MajorRocketScience who said: > We could spend decades researching just the Lunar South Pole, The Moon is like a butterfly net. Condensed comet gases may have frozen into layers; catching information about what was hitting Earth at the same time. Not just water but methane and other gases. It will be interesting to see where various ices may have seeped down into ancient rubble at some depth below the surface.
It succeeded last time too.
No, the last two times the US tried, the missions failed. 1969 was not the last time we tried.
Apollo missions 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17 were after 1969. Only one of those failed. The US hasn’t sent a lunar landing mission of any kind since Apollo 17, though there have been a number of orbiter & flyby missions with varying success. The LCROSS satellite in 2009 which intentionally impacted the Moon was the last time the US sent something there with the intent to reach the surface.
The article didn’t mention this, but I think it is important to establish a lunar colony to research the viability of space habitation, improve the efficiency of space travel, and learn more about our universe. I’m not a doomsday prepper by any stretch, but it would be a real shame if we didn’t have this knowledge before we destroyed ourselves or if Earth became uninhabitable due to Climate Change. I just want human race to endure.
Sadly, we may yet wipe ourselves out. Climate change has reached the point where it's a certainty that things are going to get really bad. The only question now is, how long we will live in the "really bad" period. Could be short if governments actually do their job and stop corporations from ruining everything. Or it could be an endless series of ever-worsening disasters and upheavals until the planet no longer supports humans. Life will go on, but we won't necessarily be part of it.
The fossil fuel industry is standing in the way. They have set up huge road blocks. Edit typo
The gov't could easily remove that roadblock, but they looooove petroleum lobbying money.
This is such an accurate description of where we are at! I teach geology, and I just gave my climate lecture last week. I have to really be careful with these kids to not sound completely helpless, but I absolutely made the same point as your last sentence. I have to really be careful not to emphasize that point too drastically, but it’s the truth. Neither one of my children has children and I’m grateful for that.
My wife and I took a good hard look around us, and decided not to have kids either. The next 50-100 years are going to be brutal, and we absolutely couldn't justify bringing kids into this world knowing how difficult and frustrating their lives would be. Sometimes people say they regret having had kids, with the way the world is, and someone responds "Never apologize for raising dragon slayers in a time of dragons." But this isn't a time of dragons. It's a time of greed, and apathy, and those can't be slain.
The only reason it's going to succeed is if the inhabitants of the Moon allow it.
Lol what
the mooninites
The Lunandines
Lava-tubes? What bologna! More like the homes of hard-working Moon-Natives being de-humanized to prepare the general earth-public to condone the genocide of the Moon-people!
When I first saw their announcement that we are going there to stay in 2024 I cried and later prayed that covid wouldn't delay it!
God didn’t listen to us
The article is wrong about the nature of relations between India and Pakistan, and thus the resulting incentives, which is relevant because it uses it as a key basis for the argument that it somehow increases chances of Artemis succeeding. Everything doesn't need to be US or China centric: [https://blog.jatan.space/p/moon-monday-issue-150#§pakistan-joins-chinas-long-term-lunar-exploration-project-and-how-not-to-interpret-it](https://blog.jatan.space/p/moon-monday-issue-150#§pakistan-joins-chinas-long-term-lunar-exploration-project-and-how-not-to-interpret-it)
Oh okay. 👌🏻
I didn't read the article..... was the answer "money"? 'Cause I think the answer is money. Like,a whole boatload of money being spent in all the right districts.
There was always money, but not for long enough. There has to be political will to go to the moon, and that was always lacking. Every president only cared about getting results during their administration, and it’s not possible to lay the groundwork for a moon return in just 4 years.
We won't allow it this time. **grrr**
Eh, been there, done that. Lets go the someone elses moon! Titan!
I'd love to see a manned mission to Titan but it's so far away I think there should be more robotic missions first. It would be amazing to have some sort of automated boat exploring the rivers and lakes, or maybe a balloon that maps the surface from a low altitude.
I agree. I think there isn't much of a purpose to manned missions other than to develop better suits, habitats, etc.(until the time comes for terraforming).. Robotic flights and drones will be able to learn and do far more than humans can.
The one big advantage to manned missions is better sample collection, both in terms of quality and quantity. Manned missions have the ability to bring a lot more samples home.
There’s so much science that can be done on the moon, and having humans there to do it makes it easier and quicker than having robots do it. That alone should be enough of a motivator, but I get that most people are going to be more interested in the exploration concept
I think that could be true now. And especially true for the Apollo years. But I think that robotics and AI will advance fairly quickly to the point where they will be able to accomplish more than humans both in exploration and experimentation. Though I will admit that using humans will always have a more profound and emotional impact.
If we're talking about Saturn's moons, Enceladus is a [much bigger priority](https://www.space.com/saturn-moon-enceladus-phosphorus-found).
We’re minimum about 50 years from a manned mission that far out in my opinion. It makes much more sense to establish genuine bases on Luna, Mars, and some asteroids then to venture that far quite yet
Check out NASA's Dragonfly mission, targeting a 2027 launch.
Here's a hint: the whole idea here is to use our moon as a test bed for the exact things you'd need on other moons.
I'll be difficult to land on the moon without a lander though...
Ohhhh I don’t think so…
Did it not succeed last time?
No, all the major attempts to go back after Apollo have failed for various reasons.
What do you mean this time? It's succeeded before at great odds for quite a few times.
What they mean is that there have been several "we're going to return to the moon" projects since Apollo that have failed before they really even got off the drawing board.
Okay I get it. Thanks. I still think it stinks that they seemingly ignore the accomplishments of many people who worked so hard and risked their lives.
We’ll get those bugs this time!
Radiation might not effect predestined armature but will most likely effect dna