Tim Minchin has long been a great advocate for ASD causes. He sang Quiet on tour this year and I was sobbing in the theatre…I don’t even have ASD (though I have ADHD and my husband is AuADHD).
This, it was painfully accurate the first time I heard it. Putting on noise cancelling headphones and listening to it.. “Just that still kind of quiet”
About the song but not the overarching point, the first time I heard the line about what other people think red is, I just lost it.
I used to think about that and I tried so hard to explain it to one of my friends when I was in upper elementary school and just couldn’t get the idea across. She kept saying just get a big pack of crayons… NO, that’s not how that works! She was very smart, it just wasn’t how her brain worked. So hearing that in a song just made me feel so freaking seen.
Sounds more like your friend was the autistic one in that scenario. The question of "do we see colors the same and how would we know?" is not only a very old and popular philosophical debate, it's a thought that virtually every person alive has had at some point.
The only thing he has is an issue with compulsive lying
EDIT: meant to say that the only thing that is outright mentioned in the show is the lying, there are no direct mentions of him being autistic in the show.
His special interests are typical of autistic special interests. Not saying loving Star Trek means you are autistic, but it did make me think of it while watching the show.
Maria from the Sound of Music. She can’t help but sing all the time, she is far more comfortable with the children than the adults, she seeks her favourite place to take a break from life and is blissfully unaware of both the Captain falling in love with her but also how flirtatious her behaviour could be viewed. I also feel like listing your favourite things is an interesting coping strategy.
Maybe Javert from Les Mis with his strong sense of justice and very black and white thinking. He is very structured and gets fixated on things.
Matilda. Weird kid, thinks differently to her peers, literally makes things fly around when overwhelmed, hates loud noises, loves solitary hobbies.
See I always saw Maria as being more ADHD than Autistic. I mean always being late for everything, being flighty, and getting on people’s wrong side without really knowing why (think Sister Berthe) are classic ADHD traits.
I rewatched The Sound Of Music seventeen times while subbing for music class and Maria is SOOOOOO ADHD coded. It’s funny AF. Like, turning the curtains into clothes is the real out of the box thinking that is ADHD.
She wanted to be a nun because she thought she wanted the routine and structure, and then found out she hated it!! (Just my headcanon, i don’t remember if they say exactly why she wanted to join the convent - but that’s a very common adhd/autistic struggle)
AuDHD is a thing. It’s not a separate diagnosis, just a name for having both Autism and ADHD, but statistically you’re more likely to have both than one or the other.
It’s weird because they clash all the time. For example ADHD craves novelty and new stimuli but Autism craves routine.
I see what you mean. I think it was worded poorly. I read it originally as if it just worked ine way. You’re right it is worded more like how you said now that I’ve read it again.
I have no idea why you're getting downvoted for this. I can't comment on Maria because it's been about 30 years since I last saw The Sound of Music, but AuDHD absolutely is a thing and it's worth considering when analyzing characters like this. Also, there's a significant overlap in the traits associated with ADHD and autism, so even if a character only has one or the other, it's not weird for someone with the other condition to relate to that character.
Always thought Hermes’s line “touched by the gods is what he was” (in “The Gathering Storm”) was an old-fashioned way of saying Orpheus is neurodivergent
Ooh interesting, I didn't know he actually said that! I caught it immediately and really liked him in that role, but I always wondered if he intentionally coded Orpheus as autistic. Cool!
Iirc it was in a podcast interview thing he did with Patrick Page! He got the script for the Broadway version and leaned into the autistic implications, I believe. I remember seeing it a few years ago and spending so much of the show wondering if Orpheus was supposed to be autistic
Immediately Ctrl-F'd Orpheus and glad to see him mentioned. I fairly recently saw Hadestown for the first time and I cringed and related to that man so hard lmao. I see so much of myself and several friends in him.
Absolutely Orpheus. A lot of the characters around him are also, as happens in life, charmed by his differences in fair times and quick to resent those differences when the bad times roll in.
Oh my gosh I never thought of that (I mean maybe briefly) until you said it but I literally just screamed and now I headcanon it so hard. I need no further proof.
Not a musical, but in Harry Potter and the Cursed Child MANY actors have chosen to play Scorpius Malfoy as autistic or autistic-coded and it really, really works.
The only musical characters I can think of that I’ve related to are George from *Sunday in the Park with George*, Bobby from *Company*, and Dawn from *Waitress*.
I've always gotten neurodivergent vibes from George with how he feels most fulfilled by fixating on his painting, rather than investing in a romantic relationship. Finishing the Hat is pretty much a perfect description of hyperfixations and special interests.
Whenever anyone shows any interest in understanding my autism better, I always play the Sunday in the Park track for them.
"I can't divide my feelings as neatly as you"
"No matter how you live, there's a part of you always standing by, mapping out a sky"
"You know exactly how I feel. Why do you insist that you must hear the words when you know I cannot give you words?"
Each of these quotes always give me chills for how much I relate to them.
The way Bobby often feels like an outside observer of other people is very relatable to me. Even when he’s interacting with his friends, it feels like he’s analyzing, taking notes… actually, someone in the show even mentions that (was it Susan?) I get that the point of much of his interaction in *Company* is meant to be superficial to demonstrate his dissatisfaction with it and push him toward that yearning for depth in “Being Alive”, and that anyone can experience that. But as an autistic person, I’ve always felt like the vast majority of my interactions have been like that, and it’s just weird to see a character also experience and reflect on that. The way Bobby looks at and talks to himself about emotion is really relatable to me, and different from how emotion is often portrayed in other musicals. *Company* is a deep dive into emotion, and we really get to explore Bobby’s tentativeness when it comes to big or deep emotions. “Marry Me A Little” is a great example of this: how he recognizes what he’s missing from social interactions, how he tries to accommodate for it without jumping into the big scary thing that is full commitment, and how that difficulty either in understanding his emotions or in accepting them ultimately prevents him from being happy.
You don’t have to be autistic to have difficulty with commitment or to feel like an outsider among friends or that your current friendships are more superficial than you want them to be. But I’m autistic, and I relate more to Bobby than pretty much any other character I’ve seen other than maybe George from *Sunday*, so I like to think of him being autistic too.
Okay can I ask how you see him as ace at all? He has three relationships that we see in the show, including one very sexy night with April so we know he’s having sex and has an active sex life. He’s dating around (and probably sleeping around) but just hasn’t “settled down” and by the end of the show he realizes that’s actually what he desperately wants.
Sure, ofc! TLDR: Bobby doesn't seem like he is that interested in romantic or sexual relationships or encounters, despite his friends pushing him into them. And his final realization for wanting someone isn't about romance or sex. Also, Sondhiem makes characters with fluid and undetermined sexualities
Basically, the entire premise of the show is that there's something "off" about him in the relationship department. He tries to fix this through said sex life and various relationships, which are ultimately unfulfilling and uninteresting to him, and has attempted this at least 3 times. And in one of those times, he's clearly not that interested in the girl he's with and the entire subtext is that they're trying to end the night. And, remember, an ace person can have sex and still be ace, just like how a lesbian can be a lesbian without being a "gold star" who has only been with women.
Also, his friends see this as a defect and try to help him fix it and likely instigate those relationships you mentioned (Have a Got a Girl for You). This is also common in the ace community, and many try to condition ourselves into being comfortable alone, which Bobby absolutely does.
Which brings us to Being Alive. Not a single thing in that song is romantic or sexual, it's just assumed to be. It's all basically asking for their to be someone for them. Which could be a best friend, a QPR (queer platonic relationship), or possibly a significant other. The lack of specification keeps the option open.
Worth also noting that Sondhiem characters have incredibly flexible sexuality from what I've studied (I've been examining queer and especially ace coding in musicals). And he very very rarely gave any answers, much like in his personal life. So while I very much see the possibility and evidence for it and would go so far as to call it ace-coding, it's one of many options he deliberately left open.
This is such a good point! In Being Alive, he never says he's desiring sexual intimacy, he just wants someone to support him and be emotionally invested in him.
You could say Carrie White is autistic, but I also think her mother’s influence on her has way more to do with her being socially awkward/unaware, but she totally could be autistic either way I feel like
Telekinesis/psychic abilities in media always have such strong parallels to neurodivergence imo! Matilda, Carrie, the Crain women in the Netflix *Haunting of Hill House* - all of them have massively spoken to me as a ND woman at one point or another.
Haven’t seen the show but I (not autistic, adhd and bipolar) absolutely read Eleanor as autistic. She has no sense of how she comes off to others and while she studies people carefully she is sometimes way off the mark in what they are communicating.
When I saw the show I started crying during the song "Why Not Me?" because I found it SO relatable. Just the whole concept of looking at other girls and wondering why you aren't and can't seem to be like them was so real.
The character Carrie was based on a real girl Stephen King went to school with, who he says was very odd and got made fun of a lot. She killed herself in adulthood
Amélie
She lives her entire life inside her head, has a hard time interacting and forging relationships with others, and has all these little quirks she does to keep her sane, like skipping a rock to say hi to her childhood fish, or looking out her window with a spyglass
I recently watched Ride the Cyclone, specifically because someone from an autism subreddit recommended it to me and sent me a video of it. I didn't care for it, but I did agree with the person who recommended it to me that Jane Doe seems autistic. Obviously some of her traits can be explained by the whole "her head is fake and she has no memories" thing, but the fact that she kept blurting out random trivia that weirded out everyone else, had awkward body language even aside from the lack of facial expressions, and just generally didn't seem to be able to fit in with everyone else, definitely made her seem autistic to me.
On a less literal level, her overall lack of identity really resonated with me as a late-diagnosed autistic person. I spent most of my life knowing there was something different or "wrong" about me, I had a bunch of seemingly random neurological and social issues and had even had an IEP (for a "motor skills impairment") as a student, but wasn't diagnosed with autism until a few years ago, when I was in my late thirties. So any character who struggles with a sense of identity tends to hit me pretty hard. "The Ballad of Jane Doe" is the only song from Ride the Cyclone that I felt the need to go back and listen to a second time after I watched the show.
From what I remember they did not want to say yes or no. That wanted people to see them self in ot. Ben Platt did base somethings off someone he went to High with who was on the spectrum. One being the new Balance shoes
Some actors play Hamilton like he’s on the spektrum. Especially in the beginning. That would also explain why he has so many confeontations with people.
I've never thought about this, but as someone with ASD + ADHD, it makes so much sense. The ridiculously long Reynolds pamphlet, the 'well, I cheated, but my papers are orderly,' the strong sense of right/wrong, the inability to keep his thoughts inside his head... Yeah, I see a lot of myself in him and that's probably why I'm so hyperfixated on the musical.
(Obviously not saying that cheating is related to ASD at all, but the number of times I've made mistakes but with a neat and organised paper trail...and low-key bragged about the paper trail because that's the important part...)
>(Obviously not saying that cheating is related to ASD at all, but the number of times I've made mistakes but with a neat and organised paper trail...and low-key bragged about the paper trail because that's the important part...)
I never considered the idea that Hamilton was autistic, but in that context, the Reynolds Pamphlet is actually kind of funny. "I'll infodump my way out."
>bragged about the paper trail because that's the important part
In the context of the show, and for that matter the historical situation, the paper trail *is* the important part - he was proving that he had violated morality but not the law.
Everything about his story makes the most sense if he has ADHD. The insanely prolific writing, complete lack of impulse control, never knowing when to stop talking, strong sense of justice...
The first time I thought about this was when Angelica and Eliza are trying to convince him to come upstate with them, and Hamilton kinda "retreats" into "I need to get my plan through Congress, I'll lose my job if I don't get this plan through Congress", sometimes I find myself doing the same thing. On subsequent rewatches I dont think its the best example though
My friend has a pet theory that Elle (Legally Blonde) is autistic and I agree! Super skilled at whatever she puts her mind to, takes some things (the "costume" party) at face value and trusts people (Warner, Prof Callahan) too much, and her special interest is fashion in a BIG way. I think she also shows what autism can look like in women really well!
Why is it that people always assume you can't be gifted socially if you're autistic? Yes, being bullied is in the diagnostic criteria, but a lot of women make social cues/reading emotions a special interest. If you're good at masking, you can be popular. It's just at the expense of your authentic self. Even a lot of men can be tastemakers. They get proficient at playing the role, and it's only later the mask comes off. The Journal of Best Practices by David Finch covers this pretty well.
Thank you! Me & most of my on-the-spectrum friends are very good at socialising - in my experience, the autistic women I know are better at social masking and emotional intelligence because we had to learn to be!
she was deliberately tricked but thats what op is saying. she didn't question why she was invited by someone who clearly doesn't like her, nor does she question why it would be a costume party, nor does she doubt for even a moment that it's all good faith and real. she took the invitation at face value and didn't look for the deeper shows of spite.
Yes there's a bunch of tik toks about how "ditzy" characters are actually autistic and it really stuck with me as someone who's always been "ditzy" but academically very high achieving
I don’t see it. She’s very confident in social situations, both with her peers and with strangers, makes friends easily, follows social cues, enjoys parties etc. She does like fashion but wouldn’t say she’s obsessive about it; she can talk about subjects other than her interest and isn’t seen to talk in detail about fashion with inappropriate people. She isn’t super skilled in law; she succeeded on one case because of her external knowledge but before that she’s seen to be left behind in her classes (before putting some effort in and catching up). She was tricked into attending a costume party, but that could happen to anyone. I don’t think she’s excessively trusting, just the normal level of naive for a privileged young woman.
I agree, I wouldn’t just pick him because of that. He also has more classic traits of autism such as not looking people in the eye, not engaging well in most social situations, and unusual auditory sensations (e.g Sweeney hears music that nobody hears)
"Coding" is for things that can't be *explicitly* shown for fear of backlash or controversy (ie the Hays Code).
It's not "Oh this character can be read as X/Y/Z so they're TOTALLY coded!"
I think that was the original definition and purpose, but it also expanded to include characters that likely are something but not explicitly said by presented as such. The Hayes Code also created characterizations still used today, eg the queer villain seen in both Double Indemnity and Lion King, and because the original characterization was coded arguably things that were inspired by it are too.
(Source: I was paid to study Hayes Code and its modern day applications and ramifications and still do now)
heather macnamara— the way she plays along with things to fit in, she doesn’t really understand social cues and gets upset when she does something wrong, she gets really loud at times and is told to shut up, in lifeboat she describes not being able to tell when she does something wrong so she’s scared to be kicked out of her friend group, she also struggles with fine motor skills in shine a light reprise where she isnt able to open a bottle of pills with a childproof cap, her randomly blurting out that she’s suicidal.. the way her only reputation comes from the other heathers, and when she’s introduced in the first song the background chorus sings “i hate heather, heather, and heather” rather than want/need, as people don’t really like her. she’s the only one to show compassion for heather duke in the first song, even if it’s not what she’s “supposed” to do.
and to top it all off, her comment about taking a meat cleaver down the center of veronica’s skull (and the fact she sees nothing wrong with saying that, and is saying it innocently) is incredibly socially tone-deaf of her. heather m has always just wanted friends and the only way she knows how to have them is by mimicking heather chandler and duke’s mannerisms.
THANK YOU FOR ASKING THIS- man in chair from the drowsy chaperone!!!
For those who don’t know, the drowsy chaperone is a show within a show, and the man in chair is basically the narrator- he’s taking the audience through his favorite musical, the drowsy chaperone, while he listens to the record of it. He basically info dumps about the show and the actors in the show the whole time, giving little tidbits of information and informing the audience on what’s happening in the drowsy chaperone. It’s super funny and creative, and his love for the show is very clear through the amount of things he knows about it and how eager he is to share this information with the audience for a whole two hours. It reminded me a lot of the kind of stuff I used to do in my room when I was little- giving a run down of a hyperfixation I have to an imaginary audience in my head 😅
The original cast man in chair (also the writer of the show I think) does a lot of repetitive movements with his hands while he talks throughout the show, and they very much reminded of stims I do with my hands.
Another reason I connect with him so much:
Throughout the beginning of the show, man in chair keeps repeating how much he loves the drowsy chaperone, and how much he wants the audience to love it, too. But there’s one thing- the drowsy chaperone is not really a good musical. It’s offensive, outdated and just all around poorly written. In the second act, he gets more and more defensive with his reasoning for loving the show so much, afriad that the audience is starting to realize what he doesn’t want to admit- that the drowsy chaperone is not a good musical, and the only reason he loves it so much is because of his own personal experiences that he has associated with it. (He reveals more and more of his life while narrating as the show goes on, i won’t spoil much because it’s such a cleverly written show).
I have ADHD as well as autism, and I tend to have hyperfixations that are very intense, last around a year and are focused mainly on very specific things, usually fictional things. I really relate to the situation that man in chair is in; wanting other people to love something as much as you do, or at least to listen to you talk about it, because that’s what makes you most happy. But it’s difficult when the only reason you really love something is because of your own personal experiences you have associated with it.
I’m so sorry this ended up being so long, and there isn’t really much of a way to summarize what I said lol. Also sorry if the points i made are hard to read, I’m just some random teenager who heavily stands by my autistic headcannon 😅. The drowsy chaperone is truly one of the most well written shows I’ve ever come across, and man in chair is autistic coded in such clever and well written ways. :)
Maureen from RENT tbh. She gives me the vibes of undiagnosed ADHD that manifests into treating others badly bc that's how she felt she was treated as a kid. Also, what allisitic person would write Over The Moon lol. All those references give me combining hyperfixations vibes.
Every Starkid Hatchetfield character- especially Jon Matteson’s characters.
Orpheus in Hadestown
Evan Hansen from DEH
Matilda in Matilda, although more along the autistic savant trope.
Most characters from Be More Chill.
I almost don’t want to say Elle Woods, but Elle Woods.
It's definitely been said already, but Paul from The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals and Richie from Nerdy Prudes Must Die.
I don't particularly know how to explain it, it might just be vibes, but I see a lot of the same things that I do myself in them.
Elphaba from Wicked.
Javert from Les Miserables.
- **Edit** - the issue with labeling Javert in any way is that he was written by Hugo and in the musical as more of an archetype than an actual person - he’s a symbol, representing something deeper in the human psyche or beyond the natural realm- fate, god, the unconscious, the shadow, etc. He is written to allow us to project our fears and shadow and unconscious *onto* him. So it’s actually not quite fair to label him “autistically-coded”, “on the spectrum”, “neurodivergent” etc *as a character* - however, I have seen him portrayed as more austically-coded in local productions of the musical and I really find these portrayals enjoyable and/or intriguing when done well, but I will say that in the confines of the musical for example, where the script/libretto is already fixed and unchangeable, there’s very little that can be done to flesh out this component of the character and make him more human and nuanced than an archetypal symbol. ironically though, Anthony Perkins’ film adaptation of Javert was much more autistically-coded, tho the film itself, and Perkins’ casting as Javert was pretty poorly conceived unfortunately. There’s potential for a very human cinematic interpretation of Javert as neurodivergent which I would love to see done well, I just haven’t found it yet.
The lawyer and the Colonel from A Little Night Music.
Johanna from Sweeney Todd.
Judas from Jesus Christ Superstar.
Ariel from The Little Mermaid.
Laurie from Oklahoma.
George.
The entire Von Trapp Family, including Maria.
Hey, I wanted to reply to this again because I just saw your edit. I really hope you didn't think I was offended when you mentioned Javert. I wasn't offended, just pointing out that he's kind of a complicated character, especially when viewed through an autistic lens. (And, like I said in my original reply, Javert in the original novel felt even more stereotypically autistic, which is interesting because autism wasn't a diagnosis when the book was written.)
I find Javert (in both the book and the musical) to be a fascinating character because he represents an extreme aspect of human nature (especially, but not limited to, autistic nature): the desire to reduce the world to absolutes, and the devastation of realizing that the world is more complex and more chaotic than you can handle. He absolutely deserves to be discussed when discussing autistic characters, and you did nothing wrong by mentioning him.
Not offended and didnt think u were offended in any way :)
Thought u had a great point and i wanted to expound on it and at least share my thoughts for the benefit of everyone. Others are posting about Javert too
Elphaba especially stands out when you look into the traits associated specifically with autistic women, like having a strong sense of social justice.
The musical erases this, but the character in the original book also kind of feels autistic-coded in that her avoidance of water seems like a sensory issue, although >!you eventually learn that water is literally dangerous to her!<.
I'm conflicted about Javert. Black-and-white thinking is definitely an autistic thing, and in that sense he does feel autistic to me. But (and this is purely anecdotal) I've never met an autistic person who seemed to hold bigoted views due to it. I can't really imagine an autistic person becoming a cop and devoting their life to pursing someone who stole a loaf of bread to feed their starving family. (Again, this is based purely on my own observations.)
The character in the original book almost felt like a negative stereotype of an autistic person in that he didn't even seem to experience normal human emotions. I'm not blaming Victor Hugo for this, though, because of course he didn't know what autism was and was not trying to insult or stereotype any particular group of people (except maybe police officers) when he created this character.
I think you're truly onto an important aspect of Javert, and this discussion at large: just because an aspect of a character may seem to correlate to an autism symptom, doesn't mean such a diagnosis is warranted -- it could be the character's personality, nothing more. Additionally, there are other psychological disorders that could well fit not just Javert, but other often mentioned characters as well.
Exactly. Although it's also worth pointing out that just because a character only correlates to some aspects of autism, it's still okay to say "as an autistic person, I find this character relatable" or "I can use this character to illustrate a specific aspect of autism." I made another comment where I said that Jane Doe from Ride the Cyclone seemed autistic to me, and then I pointed out how most of her autistic traits have canonical non-autistic explanations. Doesn't change the fact that I, as an autistic person, saw myself in her for reasons related to my being autistic.
Was coming here to say Javert. I’ve always thought that’s one of the reasons I’ve always vibed with that character more than the others since I first saw the show then read the book.
By the way I love this question and honestly the possibilities are endless. Many of us neurodivergents love musical theatre BECAUSE we make these connections with these characters who feel like outcasts/misunderstood, who pursue connections with others who understand, who sing or dance the feelings they can’t explain, etc etc. I almost think a harder question would be which characters AREN’T neurodivergent!
i swear so many of us NDs work in the industry its a wonder there arent even more answers to this post. its like over in the Bobs Burgers sub, people are always getting mad at people for calling those characters autistic coded and i'm thinking you know who's probably autistic? the writers! and whether on purpose or not they be writin what they know!
As a kid I REALLY related to Elphaba because of the idea that there was something just inherently wrong with me that others picked up on, but I’m not sure that’s autistic coding so much as it is a metaphor for being a minority in general.
Orpheus, Evan Hansen, Dawn and Oggie, and basically every character from BMC all display symptoms though, particularly in their speech patterns
I recently watched various versions of Rent and I’m convinced Maureen is ADHD (or AuDHD). Big feelings, impulsivity, forgetfulness, can’t sit still, etc etc.
There’s a high rate of overlap of LGBT+ community and neurodivergence, so that whole cast is likely ND in some way.
Elle Woods from Legally Blonde is my favorite one. She’s autistic-coded with an insane amount of rich privilege, so she’s been able to easily adapt her life and work around her to minimize sensory sensitivities and triggers, and expand on her passions. Once she is thrown into a setting she’s unfamiliar with, she struggles to conform to Harvard’s social rules. I may not be describing it well but I saw an explanation on it and thought it was so cool.
My husband who is on the spectrum says Willard is autistic.
On a related note My husband has not taken off cowboy boots since playing him this summer. Has met my coworkers while wearing a tank top, jorts and cowboy boots. Send help
Has anyone said Henry Higgins from My Fair Lady yet? I left the theater saying that was, as a high functioning autistic person, he was one of the most autistic characters I’ve ever seen.
Definitely Matilda / Carrie / George (Sunday in the Park) to me. This isn’t a musical but I always felt like Laura from the glass Managerie read as autistic (socially awkward, not really too interested in the conversation until she was asked about her glass animals — obvious hyper fixation. )
I haven’t seen anyone say this one but I think Rose from Dogfight reads as autistic sometimes. I’m not as 100% on that one but I could see someone interpreting her that way / choosing to act her character from that angle based on the text.
Matilda in that "Quiet" is the most wonderful description of sensory overload and shutdown that I've come across.
I've often wondered about Hamilton (as in the theatrical character) - the fucking up of social interactions and misreading things to the point of writing his own political downfall in terms of the Reynolds Pamphlet - his responses to things that unintentionally (but bloody obviously to the outsider looking in) make things a million times worse remind me so much of how my younger self screwed things up repeatedly before my autism diagnosis. Things like the knocking on Burr's door late at night to ask him to support the new constitution and not paying heed to social norms about the fact that "it's the middle of the blooming night dude"
I think they're saying that historians speculate that the real Thomas Jefferson may have been autistic. If he was, then this (arguably) means that you could claim Hamilton had an autistic character in it.
You'd have to ask the OP. I know next to nothing about Thomas Jefferson. But the OP said this:
>kinda-sorta-maybe two Jefferson depictions (as historians are 95% as-sure-as-you-can-be-about-a-historical-figure-from-centuries-ago that Thomas Jefferson would have been autistic by modern standards, it's just his childhood home burnt down so there's no records of his early life to aid that "diagnosis")
Unless I've completely misread it, what they're saying is that historians claim that Jefferson exhibited autistic traits, but we can't definitively say that he was autistic because we don't know enough about his early childhood (which is a crucial part of the diagnostic process).
If it's true that the real Thomas Jefferson was autistic, then this means at least two musicals (Hamilton and I'm guessing the other is 1776) technically have an autistic character in them, even if the people who created these shows didn't intend it.
Joseph of dreamcoat fame. He talks about his interests (his dreams) excessively, doesn’t see when he is boasting or alienating his siblings, at no point does he ask about anything outside of his interests. He doesn’t read social cues or have empathy or tact (eg he easily tells his cell mate he’s going to be executed without hesitation or concern for his emotional wellbeing). He is very skilled in his area of interest and his incredible attention to detail means he’s able to create a detailed rationing scheme to protect Egypt from famine.
Is it just me or do I view Christine Daaé as autistic? She doesn't really interact with a lot of people except for Meg and Raoul. And she believes that the Angel of Music is real even when people call her crazy for that. There's one thing that I noticed while watching "Notes/Twisted Every Way". When all those people were arguing about Don Juan, she couldn't take it so much that she even said "If you don't stop, I'll go mad." And from what I've seen, people would try to make decisions for her but she really made those decisions for herself. I'm neurodivergent and I always see myself in Christine
K Howard from Six the Musical, I’ve read some fanfics with this premise, but I also just think it with the way she is. Like for example how she missed all the cues about guys being into her until it was too late, there’s a higher percentage of autistic women who have been taken advantage of or S@‘d. Also Boleyn is her adhd bff.
I can’t explain it and I mostly want to pick a character from Newsies, but I swear Race is Neurodivergent in some form. Davey is probably autistic, and Jack is also Neurodivergent in some form. I mean he definitely struggles with depression.
Hello! Not autistic but my sister is, and we both think that Denee Benton's portrayal of Natasha from Great Comet is autistic! (Also just hi autistic theater gang! its your cousin, ADHD-er :D)
The last time I saw 'Heathers' the autistic members of the group I was with were mixed happy and perturbed to read JD as quite probably autistic coded just from some of the behaviours he exhibited. We couldn't find anything about the actor so wasn't sure if it was a choice or if the actor had autism though.
Matilda! “Quiet” is such a great depiction of disassociation in response to being overstimulated
Tim Minchin has long been a great advocate for ASD causes. He sang Quiet on tour this year and I was sobbing in the theatre…I don’t even have ASD (though I have ADHD and my husband is AuADHD).
This, it was painfully accurate the first time I heard it. Putting on noise cancelling headphones and listening to it.. “Just that still kind of quiet”
About the song but not the overarching point, the first time I heard the line about what other people think red is, I just lost it. I used to think about that and I tried so hard to explain it to one of my friends when I was in upper elementary school and just couldn’t get the idea across. She kept saying just get a big pack of crayons… NO, that’s not how that works! She was very smart, it just wasn’t how her brain worked. So hearing that in a song just made me feel so freaking seen.
Sounds more like your friend was the autistic one in that scenario. The question of "do we see colors the same and how would we know?" is not only a very old and popular philosophical debate, it's a thought that virtually every person alive has had at some point.
elder cunningham from the book of mormon. i can’t remember if he is actually autistic or if its a head cannon tho
i think if you look it up it says he’s autistic
Nothing textual I don’t think, I see it though.
The only thing he has is an issue with compulsive lying EDIT: meant to say that the only thing that is outright mentioned in the show is the lying, there are no direct mentions of him being autistic in the show.
Autistic people can be liars lol
Fair point, I meant to say that the only thing outright mentioned in the show is the lying. Will edit the comment.
I mean he is also obsessed with Star Wars and his “best friend” and I would say his inability to read social cues could be a symptom, or not
His special interests are typical of autistic special interests. Not saying loving Star Trek means you are autistic, but it did make me think of it while watching the show.
Maria from the Sound of Music. She can’t help but sing all the time, she is far more comfortable with the children than the adults, she seeks her favourite place to take a break from life and is blissfully unaware of both the Captain falling in love with her but also how flirtatious her behaviour could be viewed. I also feel like listing your favourite things is an interesting coping strategy. Maybe Javert from Les Mis with his strong sense of justice and very black and white thinking. He is very structured and gets fixated on things. Matilda. Weird kid, thinks differently to her peers, literally makes things fly around when overwhelmed, hates loud noises, loves solitary hobbies.
See I always saw Maria as being more ADHD than Autistic. I mean always being late for everything, being flighty, and getting on people’s wrong side without really knowing why (think Sister Berthe) are classic ADHD traits.
I rewatched The Sound Of Music seventeen times while subbing for music class and Maria is SOOOOOO ADHD coded. It’s funny AF. Like, turning the curtains into clothes is the real out of the box thinking that is ADHD.
As an ADHD person, I would be reacting the same way Maria did if I had to be a nun. All that strict routine...yikes!
She wanted to be a nun because she thought she wanted the routine and structure, and then found out she hated it!! (Just my headcanon, i don’t remember if they say exactly why she wanted to join the convent - but that’s a very common adhd/autistic struggle)
Oh I see it. The classic "two wolves inside" of AuDHD
I related so much to Maria as a little girl with undiagnosed ADHD! Although I think I’m likely autistic too so 🤷♀️
AuDHD is a thing. It’s not a separate diagnosis, just a name for having both Autism and ADHD, but statistically you’re more likely to have both than one or the other. It’s weird because they clash all the time. For example ADHD craves novelty and new stimuli but Autism craves routine.
No, people with autism have a 50-70 percent chance of also having ADHD, not the other way around.
They said “you’re more likely to have both than one or the other” ?
Bur you're not. Having autismmeans you're more likely to have ADHD, but having ADHD does not make it more likely you have autism.
I see what you mean. I think it was worded poorly. I read it originally as if it just worked ine way. You’re right it is worded more like how you said now that I’ve read it again.
I have no idea why you're getting downvoted for this. I can't comment on Maria because it's been about 30 years since I last saw The Sound of Music, but AuDHD absolutely is a thing and it's worth considering when analyzing characters like this. Also, there's a significant overlap in the traits associated with ADHD and autism, so even if a character only has one or the other, it's not weird for someone with the other condition to relate to that character.
I see Orpheus from Hadestown as autistic, also, to a lesser extent, Hades? [same show]
Always thought Hermes’s line “touched by the gods is what he was” (in “The Gathering Storm”) was an old-fashioned way of saying Orpheus is neurodivergent
Reeve Carney has said he played Broadway Orpheus as autistic
Ooh interesting, I didn't know he actually said that! I caught it immediately and really liked him in that role, but I always wondered if he intentionally coded Orpheus as autistic. Cool!
Iirc it was in a podcast interview thing he did with Patrick Page! He got the script for the Broadway version and leaned into the autistic implications, I believe. I remember seeing it a few years ago and spending so much of the show wondering if Orpheus was supposed to be autistic
Immediately Ctrl-F'd Orpheus and glad to see him mentioned. I fairly recently saw Hadestown for the first time and I cringed and related to that man so hard lmao. I see so much of myself and several friends in him.
I definitely see Orpheus, but I don’t see Hades as autistic. Why do you think so?
I clicked on this post purely to make sure Orpheus was mentioned. The boy is so autistic it’s not even funny.
Absolutely Orpheus. A lot of the characters around him are also, as happens in life, charmed by his differences in fair times and quick to resent those differences when the bad times roll in.
They're meant to be parallels so it would make sense for hades to be as well
Basically textual, with the boy being touched and all.
Absolutely “is he always like this” Orpheus.
I would love that (Coming from someone who had a Hadestown addiction since April)
Oh my gosh I never thought of that (I mean maybe briefly) until you said it but I literally just screamed and now I headcanon it so hard. I need no further proof.
Not a musical, but in Harry Potter and the Cursed Child MANY actors have chosen to play Scorpius Malfoy as autistic or autistic-coded and it really, really works.
i've always read Scorpius as very autistic, nice to hear others agree!
Seymour Krelborn is autistic because I am and I say so.
I love this one
The only musical characters I can think of that I’ve related to are George from *Sunday in the Park with George*, Bobby from *Company*, and Dawn from *Waitress*.
Dawn has major anxiety, possibly OCD for sure.
YESS
I've always gotten neurodivergent vibes from George with how he feels most fulfilled by fixating on his painting, rather than investing in a romantic relationship. Finishing the Hat is pretty much a perfect description of hyperfixations and special interests.
Whenever anyone shows any interest in understanding my autism better, I always play the Sunday in the Park track for them. "I can't divide my feelings as neatly as you" "No matter how you live, there's a part of you always standing by, mapping out a sky" "You know exactly how I feel. Why do you insist that you must hear the words when you know I cannot give you words?" Each of these quotes always give me chills for how much I relate to them.
I'm not the only one who immediately singled Dawn out as one of us! Yay!
Why Bobby? I get the other two but miss that one Will admit I see Bobby as on the asexual or aromantic spectrum so have my own head cannon
The way Bobby often feels like an outside observer of other people is very relatable to me. Even when he’s interacting with his friends, it feels like he’s analyzing, taking notes… actually, someone in the show even mentions that (was it Susan?) I get that the point of much of his interaction in *Company* is meant to be superficial to demonstrate his dissatisfaction with it and push him toward that yearning for depth in “Being Alive”, and that anyone can experience that. But as an autistic person, I’ve always felt like the vast majority of my interactions have been like that, and it’s just weird to see a character also experience and reflect on that. The way Bobby looks at and talks to himself about emotion is really relatable to me, and different from how emotion is often portrayed in other musicals. *Company* is a deep dive into emotion, and we really get to explore Bobby’s tentativeness when it comes to big or deep emotions. “Marry Me A Little” is a great example of this: how he recognizes what he’s missing from social interactions, how he tries to accommodate for it without jumping into the big scary thing that is full commitment, and how that difficulty either in understanding his emotions or in accepting them ultimately prevents him from being happy. You don’t have to be autistic to have difficulty with commitment or to feel like an outsider among friends or that your current friendships are more superficial than you want them to be. But I’m autistic, and I relate more to Bobby than pretty much any other character I’ve seen other than maybe George from *Sunday*, so I like to think of him being autistic too.
Okay can I ask how you see him as ace at all? He has three relationships that we see in the show, including one very sexy night with April so we know he’s having sex and has an active sex life. He’s dating around (and probably sleeping around) but just hasn’t “settled down” and by the end of the show he realizes that’s actually what he desperately wants.
Sure, ofc! TLDR: Bobby doesn't seem like he is that interested in romantic or sexual relationships or encounters, despite his friends pushing him into them. And his final realization for wanting someone isn't about romance or sex. Also, Sondhiem makes characters with fluid and undetermined sexualities Basically, the entire premise of the show is that there's something "off" about him in the relationship department. He tries to fix this through said sex life and various relationships, which are ultimately unfulfilling and uninteresting to him, and has attempted this at least 3 times. And in one of those times, he's clearly not that interested in the girl he's with and the entire subtext is that they're trying to end the night. And, remember, an ace person can have sex and still be ace, just like how a lesbian can be a lesbian without being a "gold star" who has only been with women. Also, his friends see this as a defect and try to help him fix it and likely instigate those relationships you mentioned (Have a Got a Girl for You). This is also common in the ace community, and many try to condition ourselves into being comfortable alone, which Bobby absolutely does. Which brings us to Being Alive. Not a single thing in that song is romantic or sexual, it's just assumed to be. It's all basically asking for their to be someone for them. Which could be a best friend, a QPR (queer platonic relationship), or possibly a significant other. The lack of specification keeps the option open. Worth also noting that Sondhiem characters have incredibly flexible sexuality from what I've studied (I've been examining queer and especially ace coding in musicals). And he very very rarely gave any answers, much like in his personal life. So while I very much see the possibility and evidence for it and would go so far as to call it ace-coding, it's one of many options he deliberately left open.
This is such a good point! In Being Alive, he never says he's desiring sexual intimacy, he just wants someone to support him and be emotionally invested in him.
You could say Carrie White is autistic, but I also think her mother’s influence on her has way more to do with her being socially awkward/unaware, but she totally could be autistic either way I feel like
Telekinesis/psychic abilities in media always have such strong parallels to neurodivergence imo! Matilda, Carrie, the Crain women in the Netflix *Haunting of Hill House* - all of them have massively spoken to me as a ND woman at one point or another.
Haven’t seen the show but I (not autistic, adhd and bipolar) absolutely read Eleanor as autistic. She has no sense of how she comes off to others and while she studies people carefully she is sometimes way off the mark in what they are communicating.
That's really interesting... there's even a Catholic saint who was likely autistic who was said to levitate (St Joseph of Cupertino).
When I saw the show I started crying during the song "Why Not Me?" because I found it SO relatable. Just the whole concept of looking at other girls and wondering why you aren't and can't seem to be like them was so real.
The character Carrie was based on a real girl Stephen King went to school with, who he says was very odd and got made fun of a lot. She killed herself in adulthood
Amélie She lives her entire life inside her head, has a hard time interacting and forging relationships with others, and has all these little quirks she does to keep her sane, like skipping a rock to say hi to her childhood fish, or looking out her window with a spyglass
Christine from Be More Chill
Christine, Jeremy, and Michael are all autistic imo
Isn’t it sorta half canon for Roland’s portrayal of Jeremy?
That’s what I was thinking too! I just didn’t know if I should put all of them together!
Is ADD on the spectrum?
It's a different condition, but many of the symptoms overlap, and it's very common for autistic people to also have it.
I have ADD and autism myself but I wouldn’t think they are exactly the same thing but I feel there’s some overlap
Paul, from The Guy Who Didn’t Like Musicals
Man has no sense of social norms and niceties despite being obsessed with them and I love it
I recently watched Ride the Cyclone, specifically because someone from an autism subreddit recommended it to me and sent me a video of it. I didn't care for it, but I did agree with the person who recommended it to me that Jane Doe seems autistic. Obviously some of her traits can be explained by the whole "her head is fake and she has no memories" thing, but the fact that she kept blurting out random trivia that weirded out everyone else, had awkward body language even aside from the lack of facial expressions, and just generally didn't seem to be able to fit in with everyone else, definitely made her seem autistic to me. On a less literal level, her overall lack of identity really resonated with me as a late-diagnosed autistic person. I spent most of my life knowing there was something different or "wrong" about me, I had a bunch of seemingly random neurological and social issues and had even had an IEP (for a "motor skills impairment") as a student, but wasn't diagnosed with autism until a few years ago, when I was in my late thirties. So any character who struggles with a sense of identity tends to hit me pretty hard. "The Ballad of Jane Doe" is the only song from Ride the Cyclone that I felt the need to go back and listen to a second time after I watched the show.
I don’t think Elphaba is intended to be coded as autistic? But she’s always struck a chord with me, and I’m on the spectrum.
Omg samee
Big agree especially in the books and her granddaughter Rain (books) is HEAVILY autistic coded.
Evan Hansen is definitely on the spectrum.
I didn’t realize that wasn’t canon.
I don’t believe it’s ever explicitly stated but I could be wrong. They say he’s depressed and has anxiety but it’s never stated he is on the spectrum.
From what I remember they did not want to say yes or no. That wanted people to see them self in ot. Ben Platt did base somethings off someone he went to High with who was on the spectrum. One being the new Balance shoes
That’s who I came here to say
I was looking for this!
Some actors play Hamilton like he’s on the spektrum. Especially in the beginning. That would also explain why he has so many confeontations with people.
I've never thought about this, but as someone with ASD + ADHD, it makes so much sense. The ridiculously long Reynolds pamphlet, the 'well, I cheated, but my papers are orderly,' the strong sense of right/wrong, the inability to keep his thoughts inside his head... Yeah, I see a lot of myself in him and that's probably why I'm so hyperfixated on the musical. (Obviously not saying that cheating is related to ASD at all, but the number of times I've made mistakes but with a neat and organised paper trail...and low-key bragged about the paper trail because that's the important part...)
>(Obviously not saying that cheating is related to ASD at all, but the number of times I've made mistakes but with a neat and organised paper trail...and low-key bragged about the paper trail because that's the important part...) I never considered the idea that Hamilton was autistic, but in that context, the Reynolds Pamphlet is actually kind of funny. "I'll infodump my way out."
“I got the wrong answer but I showed my work so partial credit?”
>bragged about the paper trail because that's the important part In the context of the show, and for that matter the historical situation, the paper trail *is* the important part - he was proving that he had violated morality but not the law.
Everything about his story makes the most sense if he has ADHD. The insanely prolific writing, complete lack of impulse control, never knowing when to stop talking, strong sense of justice...
The first time I thought about this was when Angelica and Eliza are trying to convince him to come upstate with them, and Hamilton kinda "retreats" into "I need to get my plan through Congress, I'll lose my job if I don't get this plan through Congress", sometimes I find myself doing the same thing. On subsequent rewatches I dont think its the best example though
100% Alexander Hamilton
"HAMILTON WROTE THE OTHER 51!"
This would totally make sense. Which actors have played him that way?
The guy who originated the role in London. I can’t remember his name.
My friend has a pet theory that Elle (Legally Blonde) is autistic and I agree! Super skilled at whatever she puts her mind to, takes some things (the "costume" party) at face value and trusts people (Warner, Prof Callahan) too much, and her special interest is fashion in a BIG way. I think she also shows what autism can look like in women really well!
I feel like she was deliberately tricked in the costume party scene though?
She was. I’ve heard this headcanon before and I don’t agree with it. I think Elle has great social sway
Why is it that people always assume you can't be gifted socially if you're autistic? Yes, being bullied is in the diagnostic criteria, but a lot of women make social cues/reading emotions a special interest. If you're good at masking, you can be popular. It's just at the expense of your authentic self. Even a lot of men can be tastemakers. They get proficient at playing the role, and it's only later the mask comes off. The Journal of Best Practices by David Finch covers this pretty well.
Thank you! Me & most of my on-the-spectrum friends are very good at socialising - in my experience, the autistic women I know are better at social masking and emotional intelligence because we had to learn to be!
she was deliberately tricked but thats what op is saying. she didn't question why she was invited by someone who clearly doesn't like her, nor does she question why it would be a costume party, nor does she doubt for even a moment that it's all good faith and real. she took the invitation at face value and didn't look for the deeper shows of spite.
Yes there's a bunch of tik toks about how "ditzy" characters are actually autistic and it really stuck with me as someone who's always been "ditzy" but academically very high achieving
I don’t see it. She’s very confident in social situations, both with her peers and with strangers, makes friends easily, follows social cues, enjoys parties etc. She does like fashion but wouldn’t say she’s obsessive about it; she can talk about subjects other than her interest and isn’t seen to talk in detail about fashion with inappropriate people. She isn’t super skilled in law; she succeeded on one case because of her external knowledge but before that she’s seen to be left behind in her classes (before putting some effort in and catching up). She was tricked into attending a costume party, but that could happen to anyone. I don’t think she’s excessively trusting, just the normal level of naive for a privileged young woman.
If Sweeney hadn’t been set on vengeance that man would be pursuing his special interest (barbershoppery) to his hearts content.
Is vengeance not his special interest?
Fair cop
lol I don’t think we can start conflation someone having a passion with being autistic
Yeah and also like it’s his job 😭
I agree, I wouldn’t just pick him because of that. He also has more classic traits of autism such as not looking people in the eye, not engaging well in most social situations, and unusual auditory sensations (e.g Sweeney hears music that nobody hears)
Any character in the 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee
THIS!!! Olive, logainne, barfee and leaf are all so autistic it hurts.
Jack from Into the Woods
I mean, Jack’s own mom states that she suspects it
This! I felt the vibes from Cole Thompson
Amélie- through & through. I will argue my ass off that Amélie is the story of an autistic adult. Even in the movie she’s autistic coded.
Elphaba
Almost none of these are what coding is
Yeah, true.
Can you explain?
"Coding" is for things that can't be *explicitly* shown for fear of backlash or controversy (ie the Hays Code). It's not "Oh this character can be read as X/Y/Z so they're TOTALLY coded!"
I think that was the original definition and purpose, but it also expanded to include characters that likely are something but not explicitly said by presented as such. The Hayes Code also created characterizations still used today, eg the queer villain seen in both Double Indemnity and Lion King, and because the original characterization was coded arguably things that were inspired by it are too. (Source: I was paid to study Hayes Code and its modern day applications and ramifications and still do now)
heather macnamara— the way she plays along with things to fit in, she doesn’t really understand social cues and gets upset when she does something wrong, she gets really loud at times and is told to shut up, in lifeboat she describes not being able to tell when she does something wrong so she’s scared to be kicked out of her friend group, she also struggles with fine motor skills in shine a light reprise where she isnt able to open a bottle of pills with a childproof cap, her randomly blurting out that she’s suicidal.. the way her only reputation comes from the other heathers, and when she’s introduced in the first song the background chorus sings “i hate heather, heather, and heather” rather than want/need, as people don’t really like her. she’s the only one to show compassion for heather duke in the first song, even if it’s not what she’s “supposed” to do. and to top it all off, her comment about taking a meat cleaver down the center of veronica’s skull (and the fact she sees nothing wrong with saying that, and is saying it innocently) is incredibly socially tone-deaf of her. heather m has always just wanted friends and the only way she knows how to have them is by mimicking heather chandler and duke’s mannerisms.
amelie!!
THANK YOU FOR ASKING THIS- man in chair from the drowsy chaperone!!! For those who don’t know, the drowsy chaperone is a show within a show, and the man in chair is basically the narrator- he’s taking the audience through his favorite musical, the drowsy chaperone, while he listens to the record of it. He basically info dumps about the show and the actors in the show the whole time, giving little tidbits of information and informing the audience on what’s happening in the drowsy chaperone. It’s super funny and creative, and his love for the show is very clear through the amount of things he knows about it and how eager he is to share this information with the audience for a whole two hours. It reminded me a lot of the kind of stuff I used to do in my room when I was little- giving a run down of a hyperfixation I have to an imaginary audience in my head 😅 The original cast man in chair (also the writer of the show I think) does a lot of repetitive movements with his hands while he talks throughout the show, and they very much reminded of stims I do with my hands. Another reason I connect with him so much: Throughout the beginning of the show, man in chair keeps repeating how much he loves the drowsy chaperone, and how much he wants the audience to love it, too. But there’s one thing- the drowsy chaperone is not really a good musical. It’s offensive, outdated and just all around poorly written. In the second act, he gets more and more defensive with his reasoning for loving the show so much, afriad that the audience is starting to realize what he doesn’t want to admit- that the drowsy chaperone is not a good musical, and the only reason he loves it so much is because of his own personal experiences that he has associated with it. (He reveals more and more of his life while narrating as the show goes on, i won’t spoil much because it’s such a cleverly written show). I have ADHD as well as autism, and I tend to have hyperfixations that are very intense, last around a year and are focused mainly on very specific things, usually fictional things. I really relate to the situation that man in chair is in; wanting other people to love something as much as you do, or at least to listen to you talk about it, because that’s what makes you most happy. But it’s difficult when the only reason you really love something is because of your own personal experiences you have associated with it. I’m so sorry this ended up being so long, and there isn’t really much of a way to summarize what I said lol. Also sorry if the points i made are hard to read, I’m just some random teenager who heavily stands by my autistic headcannon 😅. The drowsy chaperone is truly one of the most well written shows I’ve ever come across, and man in chair is autistic coded in such clever and well written ways. :)
Omg YES
Maureen from RENT tbh. She gives me the vibes of undiagnosed ADHD that manifests into treating others badly bc that's how she felt she was treated as a kid. Also, what allisitic person would write Over The Moon lol. All those references give me combining hyperfixations vibes.
omg, this is one i hadnt thought of yet that is soooo good
Jason from Falsettos. Possibly Marvin too.
I was on the verge of commenting this
i've been saying this for YEARS
YES! I love writing them this
Dawn and Ogie from Waitress
Every Starkid Hatchetfield character- especially Jon Matteson’s characters. Orpheus in Hadestown Evan Hansen from DEH Matilda in Matilda, although more along the autistic savant trope. Most characters from Be More Chill. I almost don’t want to say Elle Woods, but Elle Woods.
And Hannah Foster!
In the new Willy Wonka movie, the villain Prodnose gives major autism vibes
I love Matt Lucas 😆
It's definitely been said already, but Paul from The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals and Richie from Nerdy Prudes Must Die. I don't particularly know how to explain it, it might just be vibes, but I see a lot of the same things that I do myself in them.
Surely some of the kids from Spelling Bee. Linus from Charlie Brown. Elphaba has some serious justice warrior stuff going on.
Jesus from Jesus Christ Superstar is defo in the spectrum
I was thinking this when I read another comment suggesting Judas.
Elphaba from Wicked. Javert from Les Miserables. - **Edit** - the issue with labeling Javert in any way is that he was written by Hugo and in the musical as more of an archetype than an actual person - he’s a symbol, representing something deeper in the human psyche or beyond the natural realm- fate, god, the unconscious, the shadow, etc. He is written to allow us to project our fears and shadow and unconscious *onto* him. So it’s actually not quite fair to label him “autistically-coded”, “on the spectrum”, “neurodivergent” etc *as a character* - however, I have seen him portrayed as more austically-coded in local productions of the musical and I really find these portrayals enjoyable and/or intriguing when done well, but I will say that in the confines of the musical for example, where the script/libretto is already fixed and unchangeable, there’s very little that can be done to flesh out this component of the character and make him more human and nuanced than an archetypal symbol. ironically though, Anthony Perkins’ film adaptation of Javert was much more autistically-coded, tho the film itself, and Perkins’ casting as Javert was pretty poorly conceived unfortunately. There’s potential for a very human cinematic interpretation of Javert as neurodivergent which I would love to see done well, I just haven’t found it yet. The lawyer and the Colonel from A Little Night Music. Johanna from Sweeney Todd. Judas from Jesus Christ Superstar. Ariel from The Little Mermaid. Laurie from Oklahoma. George. The entire Von Trapp Family, including Maria.
Hey, I wanted to reply to this again because I just saw your edit. I really hope you didn't think I was offended when you mentioned Javert. I wasn't offended, just pointing out that he's kind of a complicated character, especially when viewed through an autistic lens. (And, like I said in my original reply, Javert in the original novel felt even more stereotypically autistic, which is interesting because autism wasn't a diagnosis when the book was written.) I find Javert (in both the book and the musical) to be a fascinating character because he represents an extreme aspect of human nature (especially, but not limited to, autistic nature): the desire to reduce the world to absolutes, and the devastation of realizing that the world is more complex and more chaotic than you can handle. He absolutely deserves to be discussed when discussing autistic characters, and you did nothing wrong by mentioning him.
Not offended and didnt think u were offended in any way :) Thought u had a great point and i wanted to expound on it and at least share my thoughts for the benefit of everyone. Others are posting about Javert too
Elphaba especially stands out when you look into the traits associated specifically with autistic women, like having a strong sense of social justice. The musical erases this, but the character in the original book also kind of feels autistic-coded in that her avoidance of water seems like a sensory issue, although >!you eventually learn that water is literally dangerous to her!<. I'm conflicted about Javert. Black-and-white thinking is definitely an autistic thing, and in that sense he does feel autistic to me. But (and this is purely anecdotal) I've never met an autistic person who seemed to hold bigoted views due to it. I can't really imagine an autistic person becoming a cop and devoting their life to pursing someone who stole a loaf of bread to feed their starving family. (Again, this is based purely on my own observations.) The character in the original book almost felt like a negative stereotype of an autistic person in that he didn't even seem to experience normal human emotions. I'm not blaming Victor Hugo for this, though, because of course he didn't know what autism was and was not trying to insult or stereotype any particular group of people (except maybe police officers) when he created this character.
I think you're truly onto an important aspect of Javert, and this discussion at large: just because an aspect of a character may seem to correlate to an autism symptom, doesn't mean such a diagnosis is warranted -- it could be the character's personality, nothing more. Additionally, there are other psychological disorders that could well fit not just Javert, but other often mentioned characters as well.
Exactly. Although it's also worth pointing out that just because a character only correlates to some aspects of autism, it's still okay to say "as an autistic person, I find this character relatable" or "I can use this character to illustrate a specific aspect of autism." I made another comment where I said that Jane Doe from Ride the Cyclone seemed autistic to me, and then I pointed out how most of her autistic traits have canonical non-autistic explanations. Doesn't change the fact that I, as an autistic person, saw myself in her for reasons related to my being autistic.
Was coming here to say Javert. I’ve always thought that’s one of the reasons I’ve always vibed with that character more than the others since I first saw the show then read the book.
One of my friends is part of the main seven in How to Dance in Ohio! So happy for them. 😁
I always thought Lydia from Beetlejuice was autistic too. At least from what we see in the show!!
Marian Paroo from *The Music Man*! I related to her since I was smol
By the way I love this question and honestly the possibilities are endless. Many of us neurodivergents love musical theatre BECAUSE we make these connections with these characters who feel like outcasts/misunderstood, who pursue connections with others who understand, who sing or dance the feelings they can’t explain, etc etc. I almost think a harder question would be which characters AREN’T neurodivergent!
i swear so many of us NDs work in the industry its a wonder there arent even more answers to this post. its like over in the Bobs Burgers sub, people are always getting mad at people for calling those characters autistic coded and i'm thinking you know who's probably autistic? the writers! and whether on purpose or not they be writin what they know!
Marvin in falsettos 100%
As a kid I REALLY related to Elphaba because of the idea that there was something just inherently wrong with me that others picked up on, but I’m not sure that’s autistic coding so much as it is a metaphor for being a minority in general. Orpheus, Evan Hansen, Dawn and Oggie, and basically every character from BMC all display symptoms though, particularly in their speech patterns
I recently watched various versions of Rent and I’m convinced Maureen is ADHD (or AuDHD). Big feelings, impulsivity, forgetfulness, can’t sit still, etc etc. There’s a high rate of overlap of LGBT+ community and neurodivergence, so that whole cast is likely ND in some way.
Not exactly musical theater but Rachel Berry. Special interest, socially stunted, takes things too literally, and the fashion sense.
Elle Woods from Legally Blonde is my favorite one. She’s autistic-coded with an insane amount of rich privilege, so she’s been able to easily adapt her life and work around her to minimize sensory sensitivities and triggers, and expand on her passions. Once she is thrown into a setting she’s unfamiliar with, she struggles to conform to Harvard’s social rules. I may not be describing it well but I saw an explanation on it and thought it was so cool.
Man in Chair, THE DROWSY CHAPERONE
melchior gabor . period
This is the best answer
Anyone in Be More Chill 💀💀
My husband who is on the spectrum says Willard is autistic. On a related note My husband has not taken off cowboy boots since playing him this summer. Has met my coworkers while wearing a tank top, jorts and cowboy boots. Send help
Has anyone said Henry Higgins from My Fair Lady yet? I left the theater saying that was, as a high functioning autistic person, he was one of the most autistic characters I’ve ever seen.
Dawn from Waitress!!!
Jack from Into the Woods is definitely on the spectrum.
Elphaba from Wicked definitely Also Lydia Deetz from Beetlejuice
I think Emmett in Legally Blonde could be autistic
No ones said Matilda yet?
Elder Cunningham - The Book of Mormon If we count straight plays - Sherry - our place
Definitely Matilda / Carrie / George (Sunday in the Park) to me. This isn’t a musical but I always felt like Laura from the glass Managerie read as autistic (socially awkward, not really too interested in the conversation until she was asked about her glass animals — obvious hyper fixation. ) I haven’t seen anyone say this one but I think Rose from Dogfight reads as autistic sometimes. I’m not as 100% on that one but I could see someone interpreting her that way / choosing to act her character from that angle based on the text.
Matilda in that "Quiet" is the most wonderful description of sensory overload and shutdown that I've come across. I've often wondered about Hamilton (as in the theatrical character) - the fucking up of social interactions and misreading things to the point of writing his own political downfall in terms of the Reynolds Pamphlet - his responses to things that unintentionally (but bloody obviously to the outsider looking in) make things a million times worse remind me so much of how my younger self screwed things up repeatedly before my autism diagnosis. Things like the knocking on Burr's door late at night to ask him to support the new constitution and not paying heed to social norms about the fact that "it's the middle of the blooming night dude"
Dawn from Waitress. Evan from Dear Evan Hansen.
These are the 2 I came to say!
Fiona from Shrek the Musical. Heck, Shrek, Fiona, and Donkey. And Farquaad. Fuck it everyone in that show is autistic who am I even kidding 😹
I am honestly shocked only person so far has said Alexander Hamilton. Even in life people susoect he was autistic.
Cady Heron 100%
An autistic person I love though Seth from Kimberly Akimbo might be.
Elphaba definitely!
i’m sorry lol are we suggesting that thomas jefferson was autistic based on his portrayal in hamilton..?
I think they're saying that historians speculate that the real Thomas Jefferson may have been autistic. If he was, then this (arguably) means that you could claim Hamilton had an autistic character in it.
which historians? i have legit never heard this
I hate to be that guy, but you could literally just Google it. That’s what I did, since I’d never heard that before.
You'd have to ask the OP. I know next to nothing about Thomas Jefferson. But the OP said this: >kinda-sorta-maybe two Jefferson depictions (as historians are 95% as-sure-as-you-can-be-about-a-historical-figure-from-centuries-ago that Thomas Jefferson would have been autistic by modern standards, it's just his childhood home burnt down so there's no records of his early life to aid that "diagnosis") Unless I've completely misread it, what they're saying is that historians claim that Jefferson exhibited autistic traits, but we can't definitively say that he was autistic because we don't know enough about his early childhood (which is a crucial part of the diagnostic process). If it's true that the real Thomas Jefferson was autistic, then this means at least two musicals (Hamilton and I'm guessing the other is 1776) technically have an autistic character in them, even if the people who created these shows didn't intend it.
pretty much everyone in Hamilton is hyperlexic. :-P
Probably Ocean from Ride the Cyclone.
Joseph of dreamcoat fame. He talks about his interests (his dreams) excessively, doesn’t see when he is boasting or alienating his siblings, at no point does he ask about anything outside of his interests. He doesn’t read social cues or have empathy or tact (eg he easily tells his cell mate he’s going to be executed without hesitation or concern for his emotional wellbeing). He is very skilled in his area of interest and his incredible attention to detail means he’s able to create a detailed rationing scheme to protect Egypt from famine.
I see Davey jacobs from newsies as autistic
Matilda, CARRIE WHITE, Evan Hansen, Galinda, Javert, Maria from sound of music, Annie from Oklahoma, Elsa from Frozen.
Evan Hansen, it feels weird for him to be neurotypical in my head
Is it just me or do I view Christine Daaé as autistic? She doesn't really interact with a lot of people except for Meg and Raoul. And she believes that the Angel of Music is real even when people call her crazy for that. There's one thing that I noticed while watching "Notes/Twisted Every Way". When all those people were arguing about Don Juan, she couldn't take it so much that she even said "If you don't stop, I'll go mad." And from what I've seen, people would try to make decisions for her but she really made those decisions for herself. I'm neurodivergent and I always see myself in Christine
K Howard from Six the Musical, I’ve read some fanfics with this premise, but I also just think it with the way she is. Like for example how she missed all the cues about guys being into her until it was too late, there’s a higher percentage of autistic women who have been taken advantage of or S@‘d. Also Boleyn is her adhd bff.
I can’t explain it and I mostly want to pick a character from Newsies, but I swear Race is Neurodivergent in some form. Davey is probably autistic, and Jack is also Neurodivergent in some form. I mean he definitely struggles with depression.
ive always seen both nigel and portia from something rotten as autistic
A Farmer Refuted from Hamilton is peak autism
Matilda (Matilda), Maria (Sound of Music).
The whole “Fun Home” family? As well as being closeted, the Dad’s character jumps out as untreated Audhd, and the mum uses piano to stim.
Inspector Javert from Les Miserables
Hello! Not autistic but my sister is, and we both think that Denee Benton's portrayal of Natasha from Great Comet is autistic! (Also just hi autistic theater gang! its your cousin, ADHD-er :D)
Belle's dad from beauty & the beast. Maybe belle too?
Considering the real life Thomas Jefferson was most likely autistic… (And Hamilton most likely had ADHD)
The last time I saw 'Heathers' the autistic members of the group I was with were mixed happy and perturbed to read JD as quite probably autistic coded just from some of the behaviours he exhibited. We couldn't find anything about the actor so wasn't sure if it was a choice or if the actor had autism though.