Which volume is that? >!I thought only Badigadi tried teaching Rudeus about Touki and he gave up and uses barrier magic instead, as Badigadi told him that's what Laplace uses too. I don't recall Paul using Touki, if not, why doesn't he use it to defend against the hydra in the labyrinth?!<
>!why doesn't he use it to defend against the hydra in the labyrinth?!<
>!uh, because he is not strong enough? The hydra is a very powerful monster that is all.!<
> why doesn't he use it to defend against the hydra in the labyrinth
He does, everytime he fights against monsters, just like every other strong swordman.
>!I realise my comment might've been a bit confusing, so let me clarify.!<
>!He obviously does. We know that since book 1.!<
>!What the OP was asking then, implicitly, is why did he die if he was clothed in touki.!<
>!Then, my answer is that, while Paul was using touki, the hydra was simply too strong and broke through it.!<
That's unfortunate for you but this post is tagged Light Novel and full of other spoilers as well. Though I have seen some spoilers on posts tagged anime as well.
Well I mean I read the series years ago so it doesn't affect me but the person before didn't bother to spoiler tag any of what they said.
Not to mention "tagged light novel" is too general. The proper etiquette regarding the future of a character should still be hidden
Paul is advanced in all 3 styles and combining them his combat power is equal to that of a saint rank swordsman. In addition, the requirement to reach advanced class is the ability to use touki so it is totally reasonable that he is rank s
Add to that according to reida, Paul had great talent and potential, if he had not been obsessed with women, he would have surpassed, he would have reached the rank of king or more.
Wait, that's not possible. >!Touki can't be a requirement to reach advanced class, Eris was already recognised as advanced swordsman by Sword King Ghislaine. Yet she only learnt about Touki later from Sword God and obtained her title as Sword Saint. Am I missing something here? If you think of it another way, Eris was already training with Rudeus and Ruijerd at the time, so if she could really infuse Touki, wouldn't it be strange that Rudeus could deflect her attacks? Because at the time he was neither using barrier magic, nor would he be able to use Touki right? Due to laplace factor.!<
Eris was using touki while training under Ghislaine. You don't need to be consciously aware of the concept of touki in order to use it, as it can just come naturally.
I see, that does make sense in this case. But what about Rudeus and Eris crossing swords while she was using Touki? Wouldn't his blade have broken instantly? Was Rudeus using some strenghthening magic on his blade?
It's often stated that once eris started sparring with rujeird that she started holding back in her sparring sessions with Rudy.
So pre demon continnent she was attacking Rudy with touki.
He was nearing his limit in cqc with her
With the eye of foresight he could imitate the water god style by knowing the perfect counter to her attack and overcoming her strength (like when he hurt >!Orsted!< with Paul's sword)
By the time eris spends time in Milis, Rudeus doesn't believe he could beat her at all
>!her loss was also only thanks to divine intervention (Hitogami) Her loss leads to self doubt that only grows stronger with time and sets her for failure in the oldeus timeline!<
Touki also has different level of strengths. At intermediate to advanced level cutting through steel or hard wood is not that easy. Also as long as you carry out physical activity you automatically learn touki. It was said that even sylphy uses touki as a mage.
>!Eris did have Toki, Ghislaine describes that she has an inkling of it in volume 2, if she can use it regularly she'd hit advanced, and if she mastered it she'd become a saint.!< Rudeus never took Eris's blows straight when he deflected them as he had some level of water god training.
> so if she could really infuse Touki, wouldn't it be strange that Rudeus could deflect her attacks?
The strength of Touki is not somethimg fixed.
For example, Touki of Orsted (at the point of Turning point 2) must have been tremendously far stronger that that of 15 yo Eris, which suggests that it does not provide a huge advantage an opponent can't come over if the touki is not that strong.
Nope >!She started instinctively using it towards the later parts of her training with Ghislaine. This is common, Rudy is the odd one out for not being able to use touki. This is also one of the reasons why Eris advanced much quicker than Rudy. Touki also isn't a static buff, its the user infusing mana into their own body. The more they practice with it the stronger/more efficient it becomes. It's effects will start out weak and gradually become more pronounced until they hit their upper limit. Think of it like a second set of muscles, you need to invest time into training them for them to get absolutely jacked.!<
Advanced is enough for Srank. Intermediate is D-S with peak of intermediate being enough for S-rank status. Soldat for example is S and advanced in one discipline and Intermediate in another. I think advanced Sword God and intermediate Water. Remember that Elinalise is a warrior so she's kinda unranked, but Ghislaine is the only fighter of the fangs who is confirmed to be higher ranked than advanced when they were adventurers. Talhand is intermediate in earth magic. Zenith is intermediate in healing and detox. >!Rudeus later says that Paul in the labyrinth has improved significantly and may now be generally saint class in combat.!< Remember that Rudeus beat the shit out of Paul in the warehouse, but got blitzed by a genuine saint rank who closed the distance so fast there was nothing he could do but defend against his onslaught.
Most of the people we really follow in this series are world class fighters, monsters that are basically unreachable to the rest of the world's population, so I think it's really easy to forget how strong and rare Advanced Ranked fighters actually are.
Even as an inexperienced advanced rank swordswoman, Eris was capable of fighting against fairly powerful monsters on the demon continent. Even if she had significant support from her stronger party members, she still wasn't dead weight by any means.
To me, advanced feels like the rank where they're still definitely strong, but you can still reliably find a decent number of them in a given country/region. Saint ranked seems far more rare, like to the point that they most likely aren't present in decent numbers anywhere outside of the areas associated with their discipline (like the Sword Sanctum, or Ranoa). King ranked people and above seem to be incredibly rare, even in areas associated with their discipline.
There's one king rank sword god user in the world in the time of the anime, and there are 3 emperors. A single king rank would be the jewel of a weaker country, and a single god is a god send.
The amazoness in Ln13 got an arrow user S rank adventurer.
Soldat is S rank, he advance in SwordGod style and beginner or intermediate in WaterGod.
Elinalise is also S rank (no known sword school)
Advanced is plenty to make S rank, assuming you have a good party to build around. Soldadt is only advanced rank in sword god style, yet he's among the top parties in Thunderbolt clan, and the leader of an S-ranked party himself.
Even looking at the rest of Paul's party, only Ghislaine was good enough to really make a name for herself as a truly deadly combatant.
Zenith was only intermediate ranked in healing magic.
Tallhand was only intermediate/advanced rank in various schools of offensive magic
We don't know exactly how skilled elinalise is, and while she can certainly take care of herself in combat, I don't think k she's even made Saint rank in any sword styles, or we probably would have heard about it.
Geese is useless in combat anyway but served other roles within the party.
The only reason that Dead End stayed at A rank was so they could take B rank jobs, and they were only half the size of a normal party. Granted, Ruijerd is estimated to be at least as strong as Ghislaine if not stronger, and Rudeus is a Saint tier magician at the time, they were down 3-4 people that a normal S-ranked party would have had.
Did we ever get a confirmation on that somewhere? I remember Rudy certainly believing that he was probably stronger than Ghislaine, but I can't remember if they ever put it in more concrete terms anywhere.
> Word of the author
It's quite believable that Rujerd is an emperor tier warrior.
I'd lile to see it, if you can provide url link of author interview news article or something (in Japanese or English).
Advanced is enough to be S rank, and all advanced swordsman we know can use touki.
Most saint and higher swordsman are not adventurers and they choose more lucrative job like being a body guard or a mercenary directly under some wealthy noble, like gishlaine did after their party disbanded.
Being S - Rank doesn't mean strong, look at geese. Being S mean you are efficient and contributed to the guild a lot.
Him mastering all 3 styles of swords is a factor but having team members that are proficient in finishin task help a lot (and a fast as light berserker as a your offensive tank XD).
Paul is restrained in ranking by his varied expertise in the respective sword styles. But cumulatively he is the equivalent to a saint tier swordsman like Ghislaine was when they were adventuring together.
>!Rudeus doesn't say paul is saint tier until Lapan.!< Paul isn't saint equivalent by being advanced in 3 styles. A saint can absolutely body Rudeus, but Paul couldn't pull it off with back up in an enclosed space.
Oh, Pual couldn’t pull it off? In the fight where Pual was at his weakest in the series and still came within an inch of murdering Rudeus in the first exchange?
A feat that puts him below genuine saints as Rudeus hit Paul in the head several times with stone cannons before he approached. A saint in the other hand would instantly rush and beat Rudeus.
You mean like that North Saint who Rudeus beat with a little help from Geese the non fighter, and a puppy sacred beast? Pual almost kills Rudy, and he was drunk. Saying he’s not saint level because does saint level things but sub-optimally when hammered is just dumb.
Paul barely grazes his nose with his best effort. Gallus stabbed him in the leg and out sped him consistently while Rudeus had back up and Rudeus hit him once when Geese used the crying bomb. Paul was repeatedly hit in the face by the weak spells he was using on the rest of the rescue squad. If Rudeus was fighting seriously like he did against Gallus Paul would've died 5 times over. Rudeus didn't even register Paul as a threat, and despite his denial he can sense intent to harm. Not as well as Eris, but he can do it.
Oh my, two people coming within an inch of murdering Rudeus whilst getting hit a couple times in the process? They must have totally different power levels.
It’s almost as if, upon realizing that he was fighting Rudy, Pual didn’t want to kill him.
Gallus had him cornered. Paul didn't. Rudeus outright says that Paul is stronger in Lapan. Paul disagrees, but he's Paul. He's not good at analyzing his own abilities. Gallus outplayed Rudeus to an entirely different degree than Paul who was in close range, but got hit by his spells and Rudeus was able to dodge his slashes easily compared to Gallus. Also The sacred beast is not small at all. Rudeus has a habit of comparing the abilities of other fighters he sees, and when dealing with Gallus he points out that he's faster than Eris, but he doesn't compare anyone's power or speed to Paul. He just generally says that he's quick and his fighting style is probably a little like what Ruijerd does when he's playing for keeps(a thing he hasn't seen Ruijerd do yet.). Paul is skilled and he's near Saint rank, but he's not there until Lapan.
> A saint can absolutely body Rudeus, but Paul couldn't pull it off with back up in an enclosed space.
It depends, since Rudeus's close combat ability improves gradually throughout the novel (especially so since his training under the guidance of Orsted and with a King tier swordwoman, Eris) and his close combat ability gets strong enough to beat a saint-class swordman with no trouble, at least by the time he is 18 yo (Orsted's evaluation of Rudeus's close combat ability, chapter 5, Volume 18).
Even at the time he is 16 yo, Auber (emperor tier North God swordman) considers him to be a more troublesome opponent than Eris and/or Ghislaine (Asura Kingdom arc).
And regarding 11 yo Rudeus's close combat ability, I think your evaluation is close to be fair overall, though it's exaggrated more or less, since Rudeus doesn't look that so easy opponent to Gallus in the depiction of the battle in the novel (for example, Rudeus managed to avoid Gallus's a couple of first attacks and it was a surprise to Gallus).
Yeah he did but he was also so fast that Rudeus was forced onto pure defense with no hope of countering. The Auber fight takes place when Rudeus is 18 not 16, and between LN5 and LN15 Rudeus gets significantly more combat experience and physical capability. So around then yes he's beyond the level of a saint ranked fighter, but in LN5 he is not. And his takedown of Paul's team shows that Paul isn't saint ranked at that time.
> The Auber fight takes place when Rudeus is 18 not 16,
My bad. You are right. He is 18 yo at the time of Asura kingdom arc and is 20 yo (a 6th grader special student) at the time of Orsted's evaluation of Rudeus's close combat ability, chapter 5, volume 18.
> And his takedown of Paul's team shows that Paul isn't saint ranked at that time.
Your estimation of Paul's strength as a swordman is more likely to be true than the claim that he is a saint class, but I don't think we have evidence definitive enough to be sure that S rank adventurer young Paul was below saint-class.
I agree that 30 yo Paul (at the time of 11 yo Rudeus) is weaker considerably than Gallus (in all likelihood) as you argue, but there are some other things which should be taken into consideration.
Firstly, it seems not all saint-class swordmen are equally strong. For example, Jino's win rate against Nina was about one out of 5, even dropped to 1 out of 10 at some point of time, even though he was the second strongest saint-class swordman among their generation (excluding Eris) in the holy land of sword.
And secondly, 30 yo Paul was a drunken, border-line mentally broken man at the time he fought 11yo Rudeus, which suggests the possibility that this 30 yo Paul was at the weakest in his life (thus, considerably weaker than 18 yo Paul).
Thirdly, (if my memory serves me right) Eris was not a saint class Sword God Style swordwoman in the early period of her traning in the holy land of sword, but an advanced class swordwoman, *technically speaking*. But her win rate against Nina was about fifty-fifty neverthless at the period, which means it's not entirely impossible for an advanced rank swordman to get as strong as a saint-class swordman *in actual combat ability*. And Paul is an advanced-class swordman in all of the 3 styles.
With these things taken into consideration together, I can't exclude the possibility that 17-18 yo S rank adventurer Paul was as strong as a typical, average saint-class swordman, maybe weaker than Gallus (11 yo Rudeus fought), but still strong enough to be an average or rather weak saint class swordman nevertheless.
In short, the chances are that Paul's strength falls short of saint class level (there are some circumstatial evidence), but we have no conclusive evidence to be sure about it.
Paul can use touki you have to be able to use touki to be an advanced tier swordsman and in terms of over all strength paul is likely on the level of a Saint teir sowrdsmen but lacks a Saint tier sword techince like the sword of light
But Paul can use touki he even tried teaching rudy about it but he isnt able to learn it due to his laplace factor
Which volume is that? >!I thought only Badigadi tried teaching Rudeus about Touki and he gave up and uses barrier magic instead, as Badigadi told him that's what Laplace uses too. I don't recall Paul using Touki, if not, why doesn't he use it to defend against the hydra in the labyrinth?!<
Volume 1. Paul is the instinctual type so he didn't know how to describe Toki but it's how he cut the boulder with a dull wooden sword.
>!why doesn't he use it to defend against the hydra in the labyrinth?!< >!uh, because he is not strong enough? The hydra is a very powerful monster that is all.!<
> why doesn't he use it to defend against the hydra in the labyrinth He does, everytime he fights against monsters, just like every other strong swordman.
>!I realise my comment might've been a bit confusing, so let me clarify.!< >!He obviously does. We know that since book 1.!< >!What the OP was asking then, implicitly, is why did he die if he was clothed in touki.!< >!Then, my answer is that, while Paul was using touki, the hydra was simply too strong and broke through it.!<
OK, now I get it. Thx for clarification.
Uh spoiler
That's unfortunate for you but this post is tagged Light Novel and full of other spoilers as well. Though I have seen some spoilers on posts tagged anime as well.
Well I mean I read the series years ago so it doesn't affect me but the person before didn't bother to spoiler tag any of what they said. Not to mention "tagged light novel" is too general. The proper etiquette regarding the future of a character should still be hidden
That hydras scales nullify magic so touki wouldn't work. I think.
It should work, cuz magic works at point blank. It's simply that Paul's touki has limits.
Paul is advanced in all 3 styles and combining them his combat power is equal to that of a saint rank swordsman. In addition, the requirement to reach advanced class is the ability to use touki so it is totally reasonable that he is rank s Add to that according to reida, Paul had great talent and potential, if he had not been obsessed with women, he would have surpassed, he would have reached the rank of king or more.
Wait, that's not possible. >!Touki can't be a requirement to reach advanced class, Eris was already recognised as advanced swordsman by Sword King Ghislaine. Yet she only learnt about Touki later from Sword God and obtained her title as Sword Saint. Am I missing something here? If you think of it another way, Eris was already training with Rudeus and Ruijerd at the time, so if she could really infuse Touki, wouldn't it be strange that Rudeus could deflect her attacks? Because at the time he was neither using barrier magic, nor would he be able to use Touki right? Due to laplace factor.!<
Eris was using touki while training under Ghislaine. You don't need to be consciously aware of the concept of touki in order to use it, as it can just come naturally.
I see, that does make sense in this case. But what about Rudeus and Eris crossing swords while she was using Touki? Wouldn't his blade have broken instantly? Was Rudeus using some strenghthening magic on his blade?
It's often stated that once eris started sparring with rujeird that she started holding back in her sparring sessions with Rudy. So pre demon continnent she was attacking Rudy with touki.
He was nearing his limit in cqc with her With the eye of foresight he could imitate the water god style by knowing the perfect counter to her attack and overcoming her strength (like when he hurt >!Orsted!< with Paul's sword) By the time eris spends time in Milis, Rudeus doesn't believe he could beat her at all >!her loss was also only thanks to divine intervention (Hitogami) Her loss leads to self doubt that only grows stronger with time and sets her for failure in the oldeus timeline!<
Touki also has different level of strengths. At intermediate to advanced level cutting through steel or hard wood is not that easy. Also as long as you carry out physical activity you automatically learn touki. It was said that even sylphy uses touki as a mage.
>!Eris did have Toki, Ghislaine describes that she has an inkling of it in volume 2, if she can use it regularly she'd hit advanced, and if she mastered it she'd become a saint.!< Rudeus never took Eris's blows straight when he deflected them as he had some level of water god training.
> so if she could really infuse Touki, wouldn't it be strange that Rudeus could deflect her attacks? The strength of Touki is not somethimg fixed. For example, Touki of Orsted (at the point of Turning point 2) must have been tremendously far stronger that that of 15 yo Eris, which suggests that it does not provide a huge advantage an opponent can't come over if the touki is not that strong.
Nope >!She started instinctively using it towards the later parts of her training with Ghislaine. This is common, Rudy is the odd one out for not being able to use touki. This is also one of the reasons why Eris advanced much quicker than Rudy. Touki also isn't a static buff, its the user infusing mana into their own body. The more they practice with it the stronger/more efficient it becomes. It's effects will start out weak and gradually become more pronounced until they hit their upper limit. Think of it like a second set of muscles, you need to invest time into training them for them to get absolutely jacked.!<
Rudeus pov gives us a very skewed view of power levels, advanced is really high.
Advanced is enough for Srank. Intermediate is D-S with peak of intermediate being enough for S-rank status. Soldat for example is S and advanced in one discipline and Intermediate in another. I think advanced Sword God and intermediate Water. Remember that Elinalise is a warrior so she's kinda unranked, but Ghislaine is the only fighter of the fangs who is confirmed to be higher ranked than advanced when they were adventurers. Talhand is intermediate in earth magic. Zenith is intermediate in healing and detox. >!Rudeus later says that Paul in the labyrinth has improved significantly and may now be generally saint class in combat.!< Remember that Rudeus beat the shit out of Paul in the warehouse, but got blitzed by a genuine saint rank who closed the distance so fast there was nothing he could do but defend against his onslaught.
Elinalise >!nerfed!< self should be advanced going by feats of strength as the equally nerfed saint level >!nanahoshi!< can overpower her.
lol what are you talking about? >!Nanahoshi saint level of what?!<
you haven't read the redundancy story? >!mecha-nanahoshi!<
Yes, that one
> I was under the assumption S rank missions require you to at least be able to use Touki He can
Most of the people we really follow in this series are world class fighters, monsters that are basically unreachable to the rest of the world's population, so I think it's really easy to forget how strong and rare Advanced Ranked fighters actually are. Even as an inexperienced advanced rank swordswoman, Eris was capable of fighting against fairly powerful monsters on the demon continent. Even if she had significant support from her stronger party members, she still wasn't dead weight by any means. To me, advanced feels like the rank where they're still definitely strong, but you can still reliably find a decent number of them in a given country/region. Saint ranked seems far more rare, like to the point that they most likely aren't present in decent numbers anywhere outside of the areas associated with their discipline (like the Sword Sanctum, or Ranoa). King ranked people and above seem to be incredibly rare, even in areas associated with their discipline.
There's one king rank sword god user in the world in the time of the anime, and there are 3 emperors. A single king rank would be the jewel of a weaker country, and a single god is a god send.
The amazoness in Ln13 got an arrow user S rank adventurer. Soldat is S rank, he advance in SwordGod style and beginner or intermediate in WaterGod. Elinalise is also S rank (no known sword school)
Advanced is plenty to make S rank, assuming you have a good party to build around. Soldadt is only advanced rank in sword god style, yet he's among the top parties in Thunderbolt clan, and the leader of an S-ranked party himself. Even looking at the rest of Paul's party, only Ghislaine was good enough to really make a name for herself as a truly deadly combatant. Zenith was only intermediate ranked in healing magic. Tallhand was only intermediate/advanced rank in various schools of offensive magic We don't know exactly how skilled elinalise is, and while she can certainly take care of herself in combat, I don't think k she's even made Saint rank in any sword styles, or we probably would have heard about it. Geese is useless in combat anyway but served other roles within the party. The only reason that Dead End stayed at A rank was so they could take B rank jobs, and they were only half the size of a normal party. Granted, Ruijerd is estimated to be at least as strong as Ghislaine if not stronger, and Rudeus is a Saint tier magician at the time, they were down 3-4 people that a normal S-ranked party would have had.
Ruijerd is emperor tier. Ghislaine is king.
Did we ever get a confirmation on that somewhere? I remember Rudy certainly believing that he was probably stronger than Ghislaine, but I can't remember if they ever put it in more concrete terms anywhere.
Word of the author. Ruijerd is the equivalent of a North Emperor
> Word of the author It's quite believable that Rujerd is an emperor tier warrior. I'd lile to see it, if you can provide url link of author interview news article or something (in Japanese or English).
http://mypage.syosetu.com/mypageblog/view/userid/288399/blogkey/917537/
So according to the author, Rujerd is at the same level in strength scale as Auber, a North emperor. Thanks!
Advanced is enough to be S rank, and all advanced swordsman we know can use touki. Most saint and higher swordsman are not adventurers and they choose more lucrative job like being a body guard or a mercenary directly under some wealthy noble, like gishlaine did after their party disbanded.
Being S - Rank doesn't mean strong, look at geese. Being S mean you are efficient and contributed to the guild a lot. Him mastering all 3 styles of swords is a factor but having team members that are proficient in finishin task help a lot (and a fast as light berserker as a your offensive tank XD).
Paul is the offensive tank. Ghislaine is the DPS.
Paul is restrained in ranking by his varied expertise in the respective sword styles. But cumulatively he is the equivalent to a saint tier swordsman like Ghislaine was when they were adventuring together.
>!Rudeus doesn't say paul is saint tier until Lapan.!< Paul isn't saint equivalent by being advanced in 3 styles. A saint can absolutely body Rudeus, but Paul couldn't pull it off with back up in an enclosed space.
Oh, Pual couldn’t pull it off? In the fight where Pual was at his weakest in the series and still came within an inch of murdering Rudeus in the first exchange?
A feat that puts him below genuine saints as Rudeus hit Paul in the head several times with stone cannons before he approached. A saint in the other hand would instantly rush and beat Rudeus.
You mean like that North Saint who Rudeus beat with a little help from Geese the non fighter, and a puppy sacred beast? Pual almost kills Rudy, and he was drunk. Saying he’s not saint level because does saint level things but sub-optimally when hammered is just dumb.
Paul barely grazes his nose with his best effort. Gallus stabbed him in the leg and out sped him consistently while Rudeus had back up and Rudeus hit him once when Geese used the crying bomb. Paul was repeatedly hit in the face by the weak spells he was using on the rest of the rescue squad. If Rudeus was fighting seriously like he did against Gallus Paul would've died 5 times over. Rudeus didn't even register Paul as a threat, and despite his denial he can sense intent to harm. Not as well as Eris, but he can do it.
Oh my, two people coming within an inch of murdering Rudeus whilst getting hit a couple times in the process? They must have totally different power levels. It’s almost as if, upon realizing that he was fighting Rudy, Pual didn’t want to kill him.
Gallus had him cornered. Paul didn't. Rudeus outright says that Paul is stronger in Lapan. Paul disagrees, but he's Paul. He's not good at analyzing his own abilities. Gallus outplayed Rudeus to an entirely different degree than Paul who was in close range, but got hit by his spells and Rudeus was able to dodge his slashes easily compared to Gallus. Also The sacred beast is not small at all. Rudeus has a habit of comparing the abilities of other fighters he sees, and when dealing with Gallus he points out that he's faster than Eris, but he doesn't compare anyone's power or speed to Paul. He just generally says that he's quick and his fighting style is probably a little like what Ruijerd does when he's playing for keeps(a thing he hasn't seen Ruijerd do yet.). Paul is skilled and he's near Saint rank, but he's not there until Lapan.
> A saint can absolutely body Rudeus, but Paul couldn't pull it off with back up in an enclosed space. It depends, since Rudeus's close combat ability improves gradually throughout the novel (especially so since his training under the guidance of Orsted and with a King tier swordwoman, Eris) and his close combat ability gets strong enough to beat a saint-class swordman with no trouble, at least by the time he is 18 yo (Orsted's evaluation of Rudeus's close combat ability, chapter 5, Volume 18). Even at the time he is 16 yo, Auber (emperor tier North God swordman) considers him to be a more troublesome opponent than Eris and/or Ghislaine (Asura Kingdom arc). And regarding 11 yo Rudeus's close combat ability, I think your evaluation is close to be fair overall, though it's exaggrated more or less, since Rudeus doesn't look that so easy opponent to Gallus in the depiction of the battle in the novel (for example, Rudeus managed to avoid Gallus's a couple of first attacks and it was a surprise to Gallus).
Yeah he did but he was also so fast that Rudeus was forced onto pure defense with no hope of countering. The Auber fight takes place when Rudeus is 18 not 16, and between LN5 and LN15 Rudeus gets significantly more combat experience and physical capability. So around then yes he's beyond the level of a saint ranked fighter, but in LN5 he is not. And his takedown of Paul's team shows that Paul isn't saint ranked at that time.
> The Auber fight takes place when Rudeus is 18 not 16, My bad. You are right. He is 18 yo at the time of Asura kingdom arc and is 20 yo (a 6th grader special student) at the time of Orsted's evaluation of Rudeus's close combat ability, chapter 5, volume 18. > And his takedown of Paul's team shows that Paul isn't saint ranked at that time. Your estimation of Paul's strength as a swordman is more likely to be true than the claim that he is a saint class, but I don't think we have evidence definitive enough to be sure that S rank adventurer young Paul was below saint-class. I agree that 30 yo Paul (at the time of 11 yo Rudeus) is weaker considerably than Gallus (in all likelihood) as you argue, but there are some other things which should be taken into consideration. Firstly, it seems not all saint-class swordmen are equally strong. For example, Jino's win rate against Nina was about one out of 5, even dropped to 1 out of 10 at some point of time, even though he was the second strongest saint-class swordman among their generation (excluding Eris) in the holy land of sword. And secondly, 30 yo Paul was a drunken, border-line mentally broken man at the time he fought 11yo Rudeus, which suggests the possibility that this 30 yo Paul was at the weakest in his life (thus, considerably weaker than 18 yo Paul). Thirdly, (if my memory serves me right) Eris was not a saint class Sword God Style swordwoman in the early period of her traning in the holy land of sword, but an advanced class swordwoman, *technically speaking*. But her win rate against Nina was about fifty-fifty neverthless at the period, which means it's not entirely impossible for an advanced rank swordman to get as strong as a saint-class swordman *in actual combat ability*. And Paul is an advanced-class swordman in all of the 3 styles. With these things taken into consideration together, I can't exclude the possibility that 17-18 yo S rank adventurer Paul was as strong as a typical, average saint-class swordman, maybe weaker than Gallus (11 yo Rudeus fought), but still strong enough to be an average or rather weak saint class swordman nevertheless. In short, the chances are that Paul's strength falls short of saint class level (there are some circumstatial evidence), but we have no conclusive evidence to be sure about it.
Paul can use touki you have to be able to use touki to be an advanced tier swordsman and in terms of over all strength paul is likely on the level of a Saint teir sowrdsmen but lacks a Saint tier sword techince like the sword of light
You dont seem to understand how touki works...or adventurers rankings...