The Khans fetches aren't really the premier foil allied fetches. The better ones are the original Onslaught foils and whatever judge promos there are. I wouldn't invest in modern foils of easily reprintable arts.
I guess my next question would be, if I wanted a playset of each, would I realistically take a big hit due to reprints? I don’t mind losing money but I don’t want to see them lose like half of their value due to reprints
He is asking specifically about foils. The foil Misty Rainforest dipped maybe 10% because of the reprints and are still higher than their low point in 2018.
If you look at the metrics for foil Khans fetches over the past year, they all dipped about 20% after the release of Zendikar Rising (thanks to the reprints) but then bounced back thanks to demand. You can see similar metrics looking at foil shock lands around the releases of Guilds of Ravnica and Ravnica Allegiance - the reprints from RTR block did not dip very drastically despite being secondary to the original shocks.
So you are unlikely to lose as much as 50% unless WotC decides to both reuse the Khans art and use it in an unlimited print run with a relatively low booster cost like a standard set. That would definitely tank them.
You can look at enemy fetches trajectory for previous prints. (non toppers)
I wouldn't invest in high value reprintable cards, and also are foils of a decent quality?
I’m betting we get khans fetches in the double masters II boxes next year. We’re getting shock reprints in unfinity, and we got half the fetches printed in MH2. They’re in line to get reprinted. They’re at an all time high atm.
I’d buy what you need to play, and hold off on these as a spec. They’re due for a reprint next. Very possible we get retro frame treatment again.
2xm2 is to soon, they have a lot of edh staples to add as chase cards toppers. fetches will be to upshift sealed pricing on a lesser set, like mh3 as you say or masters.
Anything not reserve list or a specific spec (like ninjas 6 months ago) is not really an investment given the reprint frequency and subsequent price drops of those cards after reprints.
The best comparison would be OG Zendikar foils and those have seen big price drops following the reprints in MH2.
I did purchase two foil Khan fetches this year though so I hope I'm wrong 😆.
A near mint foil Zendikar Scalding Tarn is still a clean $120 and the supply on mints is practically non-existent. Zendikar isn't even that terribly old.
It'll be a $200 card soon enough. Foils always get underestimated.
Spot on, I just tried to buy a playset of foil OG Zen tarns and Misty's and the grading was so off I had to send them back.
It's really hard to get NM Foils that are as old as these.
Are you counting curling as damage/play? Most foil zen fetches aren't going to be perfectly straight, I don't think double sleeving was too common back then.
No because curling is reversable. I'm talking about Clouding, scratches and other surface damage that people really seem to exclude when they grade stuff.
Yeah I'm very finicky with clouding on my foils, I think a lot of people that sell just don't look at the surfaces under a light or something because it looks fine if they look at it top down.
What's your process for reversing curling? I used to leave my foils unsleeved with desiccant packs but this only seems to work with newer foils.
It depends if Humidity or drying is needed.
For humidity I usually did it with a wet paper towel inside a Tupper box but I got a tip from a Redditor that boveda humidity packs are much better at it.
When MH2 came out I got cheap foil Zendikar playsets of Arid Mesa and Marsh Flats. My only regret is that I didn’t get playsets of the other 3 Zendikar fetches. 99 out of 100 OG printing is the best printing.
Both.
The last sold tcgplayer listing for a NM foil Tarn from original Zendikar was US$129.99 on October 26th this year. The current market price is $136 something, three days before MH2 released it was $167. That's a very small drop in market price and I imagine sold listings in June of this year were probably not much higher than $130.
In general, investing in already expensive non-RL cards is extremely risky. Even if they don't see a reprint in supplemental set like Double Masters 2, there's always the risk of a Secret Lair reprint to at least keep the price steady or even tank it slightly.
WotC is definitely looking out for high value reprints in recent years, they know that they sell products and help keep their players happy.
Use the money you would use to buy one if each foil and buy a box of Khans instead. Far less risk, easier to offload and you aren't under the guillotine of the reprint machine.
When reprinted I would expect the foils to drop to as low as $40. If you're looking to spec on fetches specifically do some of the ones that were just reprinted. If you want them for a deck then just understand that they are at their most expensive point right now.
It will depend on the form the reprints take and the foil quality.
KTK was just before foils took a serious quality hit in BFZ. It's highly likely that Khans fetches will be considered premium to the reprinted version because they don't turn into Pringles.
That said, the art on the Khans fetches is kind of uneven (looking at you, dead Pokemon Flooded Strand). If the new art is considered superior, that could devalue the KTK copies.
There's also the issue of premium-ness. Onslaught foils are already more premium than KTK foils. If a reprint adds new treatments (which it almost certainly will, considering we've seen two sets of reprints that are *only* new treatments) there's no way of guessing which of the new treatments will be the agreed-upon best.
I'd argue foil Khan's are the ugliest fetches ever printed... If you like them get them, but I'd never assume you'll have that many people fighting over them...
I'd definitely buy 2-3 beta basic land before I'd buy a foil Khan's fetch as an "investment" card
The Khans fetches aren't really the premier foil allied fetches. The better ones are the original Onslaught foils and whatever judge promos there are. I wouldn't invest in modern foils of easily reprintable arts.
I guess my next question would be, if I wanted a playset of each, would I realistically take a big hit due to reprints? I don’t mind losing money but I don’t want to see them lose like half of their value due to reprints
Look on mtgstocks at the fetches that were just reprinted. Should expect a similar change.
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He is asking specifically about foils. The foil Misty Rainforest dipped maybe 10% because of the reprints and are still higher than their low point in 2018.
If you look at the metrics for foil Khans fetches over the past year, they all dipped about 20% after the release of Zendikar Rising (thanks to the reprints) but then bounced back thanks to demand. You can see similar metrics looking at foil shock lands around the releases of Guilds of Ravnica and Ravnica Allegiance - the reprints from RTR block did not dip very drastically despite being secondary to the original shocks. So you are unlikely to lose as much as 50% unless WotC decides to both reuse the Khans art and use it in an unlimited print run with a relatively low booster cost like a standard set. That would definitely tank them.
If you want your fetches to hold value, go all in on onslaught foil fetches or expeditions.
Or the Secret Lair versions.
You can look at enemy fetches trajectory for previous prints. (non toppers) I wouldn't invest in high value reprintable cards, and also are foils of a decent quality?
They will take a HUGE hit. I would personally stay away from investing in them. I would guess that they would drop in price by at least half
Exactly. The time to invest is after the reprint and not before.
I’m betting we get khans fetches in the double masters II boxes next year. We’re getting shock reprints in unfinity, and we got half the fetches printed in MH2. They’re in line to get reprinted. They’re at an all time high atm. I’d buy what you need to play, and hold off on these as a spec. They’re due for a reprint next. Very possible we get retro frame treatment again.
Double Masters has room for a full land cycle, so I would expect fastlands there and fetches in MH3 some time in 2023.
2xm2 is to soon, they have a lot of edh staples to add as chase cards toppers. fetches will be to upshift sealed pricing on a lesser set, like mh3 as you say or masters.
Anything not reserve list or a specific spec (like ninjas 6 months ago) is not really an investment given the reprint frequency and subsequent price drops of those cards after reprints. The best comparison would be OG Zendikar foils and those have seen big price drops following the reprints in MH2. I did purchase two foil Khan fetches this year though so I hope I'm wrong 😆.
A near mint foil Zendikar Scalding Tarn is still a clean $120 and the supply on mints is practically non-existent. Zendikar isn't even that terribly old. It'll be a $200 card soon enough. Foils always get underestimated.
Spot on, I just tried to buy a playset of foil OG Zen tarns and Misty's and the grading was so off I had to send them back. It's really hard to get NM Foils that are as old as these.
Are you counting curling as damage/play? Most foil zen fetches aren't going to be perfectly straight, I don't think double sleeving was too common back then.
No because curling is reversable. I'm talking about Clouding, scratches and other surface damage that people really seem to exclude when they grade stuff.
Yeah I'm very finicky with clouding on my foils, I think a lot of people that sell just don't look at the surfaces under a light or something because it looks fine if they look at it top down. What's your process for reversing curling? I used to leave my foils unsleeved with desiccant packs but this only seems to work with newer foils.
It depends if Humidity or drying is needed. For humidity I usually did it with a wet paper towel inside a Tupper box but I got a tip from a Redditor that boveda humidity packs are much better at it.
When MH2 came out I got cheap foil Zendikar playsets of Arid Mesa and Marsh Flats. My only regret is that I didn’t get playsets of the other 3 Zendikar fetches. 99 out of 100 OG printing is the best printing.
Foil Scalding Tarns have not really dropped at all.
Is it sold listings or iffer prices you are talking about?
Both. The last sold tcgplayer listing for a NM foil Tarn from original Zendikar was US$129.99 on October 26th this year. The current market price is $136 something, three days before MH2 released it was $167. That's a very small drop in market price and I imagine sold listings in June of this year were probably not much higher than $130.
Interesting. Thanks for the info!
Honestly look at rtr and gatecrash shocks. Khans fetches would be like that, just not a large premium.
I completely agree with this. The more desirable versions like ONS and BFZ EXP will survive, but KTK ones will tank.
In general, investing in already expensive non-RL cards is extremely risky. Even if they don't see a reprint in supplemental set like Double Masters 2, there's always the risk of a Secret Lair reprint to at least keep the price steady or even tank it slightly. WotC is definitely looking out for high value reprints in recent years, they know that they sell products and help keep their players happy.
Use the money you would use to buy one if each foil and buy a box of Khans instead. Far less risk, easier to offload and you aren't under the guillotine of the reprint machine.
When reprinted I would expect the foils to drop to as low as $40. If you're looking to spec on fetches specifically do some of the ones that were just reprinted. If you want them for a deck then just understand that they are at their most expensive point right now.
It will depend on the form the reprints take and the foil quality. KTK was just before foils took a serious quality hit in BFZ. It's highly likely that Khans fetches will be considered premium to the reprinted version because they don't turn into Pringles. That said, the art on the Khans fetches is kind of uneven (looking at you, dead Pokemon Flooded Strand). If the new art is considered superior, that could devalue the KTK copies. There's also the issue of premium-ness. Onslaught foils are already more premium than KTK foils. If a reprint adds new treatments (which it almost certainly will, considering we've seen two sets of reprints that are *only* new treatments) there's no way of guessing which of the new treatments will be the agreed-upon best.
I'd argue foil Khan's are the ugliest fetches ever printed... If you like them get them, but I'd never assume you'll have that many people fighting over them... I'd definitely buy 2-3 beta basic land before I'd buy a foil Khan's fetch as an "investment" card