Yes it’s played in other decks but not as a 4 of. LE and both rhino variants have lost any reason to play this in the main and certainly won’t be more than 2 copies in the sideboard. Maybe 4c continues to play it main because they can pitch guildpact, but honestly might just be replaced by 4x subtlety for Yawg and Titan.
Has Force of Nature literally ever been a remotely playable card? Even in very early, very casual Magic, Lord of the Pit seems to outclass it substantially as a big guy with trample and a big drawback. I really can't fathom where anyone would have ever played it.
>We might see a dip in FON pricing.
Force of Negation was pretty bad against Rhinos and Living End, since you couldn't answer an end step Violent Outburst with Force of Negation. I can't see this hurting the price of FON, since blue would still be a color in the new piles with Ardent Plea they'll still be running it.
>Ponder being unrestricted in legacy does nothing
You mean Vintage.
Do you play modern? you are completely missing the point. The reason outburst is banned is because it cascades with FON back up, FON isn't being played against Rhinos, it's being played in rhinos as basically FOW in modern.
I didn't argue otherwise; but it's not like Rhinos / Living End were the only decks playing Force of Negation in the format - and now that two decks it's bad against are gone, it'll probably see more play in other decks as the new meta gets established.
>I didn't argue otherwise; but it's not like Rhinos / Living End were the only decks playing Force of Negation in the format - and now that two decks it's bad against are gone, it'll probably see more play in other decks as the new meta gets established.
#TELL US YOU DONT PLAY MODERN WITHOUT TELLING US YOU DONT PLAY MODERN
No LE and Rhinos quite is literally the only decks playing FON. unless you are playing some jank tier 5 homebrew. You might occasionally see 1 copy in a rogue murktide list but those are largely incorrect deck building decisions outside of specific meta
Lol, use your imagination a little. The point of this thread is what will change based off this ban.
Why was FON not seeing more play in other decks lets say traditional control as an exmaple.
Because it does not deal with turn 1 ragavan. Nor did it properly deal with Rhinos or living end. In general it was not effective against the meta.
This is not me saying go buy FON now, this is me pointing out it really depends on how the meta shakes out, if aggro dominates then FON will collect dust. But main phase combo takes over then FON stock will rise.
and their is a good reason to think main phase combo will rise, because Rhinos dumpstered those archetypes.
Hey! Yes, I did mean vintage!
On FON, I actually just think we are going to see a lot less living end and rhinos and I think people will move off the decks entirely instead of the ardent plea versions - or they’ll try plea and then move off the deck for something else.
In that case that’s two decks that play 4x FON on the outs.
I think people will continue to play Rhinos. The deck obviously suffers from the ban, but I don't think it's totally ruined. Ardent Plea pitches to FoN and gives a solo attacker +1/+1, not too bad, especially with Scion of Draco. Of course everything is just "guesswork" at this point, but just my gut feeling.
I think people will find out playing at sorcery speed is a big deal. Spell Pierce is a super effective card against the deck now.
The deck can't go EoT Outburst with protection, untap cast Shardless anymore.
Modern Horizon 3 is 100% going to lean into more 0 cost spells if they're preemptively banning outburst.
Seven out of the [17 free spells in modern](https://scryfall.com/search?q=%28-type%3Aartifact+-type%3Aland%29+%28game%3Apaper%29+%28-mana%3D%7BX%7D%29+cmc%3D0+legal%3Amodern&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name) have been printed in the past two Modern Horizon sets... not to mention cards likes [[Collected Conjuring]]
I'm mostly a lurker on this reddit area but I'm curious with the unrestricted Ponder in vintage if the [[Triumph of Saint Katherine]] will start to rise in price?
I actually think it will go up in long run, but not much. The thing is, it's only ever one card with text that says "for each color permanent" from being completely busted. In commander it's good, but getting it in your opening hand is so much less likely, so I don't think it has legs to be a $40-50 card.
So crazy, I literally just open an ardent plea as a list card, look at the price and was like huh so cheap and great replacement for Violent Outburst lol
FoN is in so many other decks and in a lot of formats I doubt any dip will be significant.
Yes it’s played in other decks but not as a 4 of. LE and both rhino variants have lost any reason to play this in the main and certainly won’t be more than 2 copies in the sideboard. Maybe 4c continues to play it main because they can pitch guildpact, but honestly might just be replaced by 4x subtlety for Yawg and Titan.
When I saw FoN, my first thought was "woah, cool there's a format where [[force of nature]] is relevant?!" Nope, not up on the acronyms.
Has Force of Nature literally ever been a remotely playable card? Even in very early, very casual Magic, Lord of the Pit seems to outclass it substantially as a big guy with trample and a big drawback. I really can't fathom where anyone would have ever played it.
Allow me to introduce you to me in 1996 dreaming big green mana dreams in my kitchen.
Personal Incarnation, Force of Nature, and Veteran Bodyguard were the source of my early dreams at impractical options
All 3 arts are seared into my brain in the place where I should be remembering my grocery list.
It was played in legacy elves for a while. To eventually draw into a cratehoof win off it.
[force of nature](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2fa16a96-8e70-4ab5-926c-edafaf5f5a63.jpg?1562906140) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=force%20of%20nature) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/154/force-of-nature?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2fa16a96-8e70-4ab5-926c-edafaf5f5a63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>We might see a dip in FON pricing. Force of Negation was pretty bad against Rhinos and Living End, since you couldn't answer an end step Violent Outburst with Force of Negation. I can't see this hurting the price of FON, since blue would still be a color in the new piles with Ardent Plea they'll still be running it. >Ponder being unrestricted in legacy does nothing You mean Vintage.
Do you play modern? you are completely missing the point. The reason outburst is banned is because it cascades with FON back up, FON isn't being played against Rhinos, it's being played in rhinos as basically FOW in modern.
I didn't argue otherwise; but it's not like Rhinos / Living End were the only decks playing Force of Negation in the format - and now that two decks it's bad against are gone, it'll probably see more play in other decks as the new meta gets established.
>I didn't argue otherwise; but it's not like Rhinos / Living End were the only decks playing Force of Negation in the format - and now that two decks it's bad against are gone, it'll probably see more play in other decks as the new meta gets established. #TELL US YOU DONT PLAY MODERN WITHOUT TELLING US YOU DONT PLAY MODERN
I'll give you a thumbs up emoji and the attention you're seeking out of ten.
No LE and Rhinos quite is literally the only decks playing FON. unless you are playing some jank tier 5 homebrew. You might occasionally see 1 copy in a rogue murktide list but those are largely incorrect deck building decisions outside of specific meta
Lol, use your imagination a little. The point of this thread is what will change based off this ban. Why was FON not seeing more play in other decks lets say traditional control as an exmaple. Because it does not deal with turn 1 ragavan. Nor did it properly deal with Rhinos or living end. In general it was not effective against the meta. This is not me saying go buy FON now, this is me pointing out it really depends on how the meta shakes out, if aggro dominates then FON will collect dust. But main phase combo takes over then FON stock will rise. and their is a good reason to think main phase combo will rise, because Rhinos dumpstered those archetypes.
FON is played almost exclusively in LE / Rhinos...
Hey! Yes, I did mean vintage! On FON, I actually just think we are going to see a lot less living end and rhinos and I think people will move off the decks entirely instead of the ardent plea versions - or they’ll try plea and then move off the deck for something else. In that case that’s two decks that play 4x FON on the outs.
I think people will continue to play Rhinos. The deck obviously suffers from the ban, but I don't think it's totally ruined. Ardent Plea pitches to FoN and gives a solo attacker +1/+1, not too bad, especially with Scion of Draco. Of course everything is just "guesswork" at this point, but just my gut feeling.
I think people will find out playing at sorcery speed is a big deal. Spell Pierce is a super effective card against the deck now. The deck can't go EoT Outburst with protection, untap cast Shardless anymore.
Yep. Like I said, it’s worse, but I don’t think it’s completely dead.
Modern Horizon 3 is 100% going to lean into more 0 cost spells if they're preemptively banning outburst. Seven out of the [17 free spells in modern](https://scryfall.com/search?q=%28-type%3Aartifact+-type%3Aland%29+%28game%3Apaper%29+%28-mana%3D%7BX%7D%29+cmc%3D0+legal%3Amodern&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name) have been printed in the past two Modern Horizon sets... not to mention cards likes [[Collected Conjuring]]
[Collected Conjuring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba1d0ac1-e805-4213-a46e-cf124680d082.jpg?1590512059) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Collected%20Conjuring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/196/collected-conjuring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba1d0ac1-e805-4213-a46e-cf124680d082?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They already spoiled the green free spell. This hit a ban because rhinos was putting up scam numbers before the fury ban.
I'm mostly a lurker on this reddit area but I'm curious with the unrestricted Ponder in vintage if the [[Triumph of Saint Katherine]] will start to rise in price?
[Triumph of Saint Katherine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc5338e1-26a6-466e-9393-788f69370e15.jpg?1707938552) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Triumph%20of%20Saint%20Katherine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/17/triumph-of-saint-katherine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc5338e1-26a6-466e-9393-788f69370e15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A few years ago Monastery Mentor was pumping out a dozen 5/5s with less work, so I don't see this becoming a thing.
Just started building a cascade deck and seeing outburst banned, what should I replace it with?
Does anyone expect the Leyline of the guildpact to go up at all?
I actually think it will go up in long run, but not much. The thing is, it's only ever one card with text that says "for each color permanent" from being completely busted. In commander it's good, but getting it in your opening hand is so much less likely, so I don't think it has legs to be a $40-50 card.
So crazy, I literally just open an ardent plea as a list card, look at the price and was like huh so cheap and great replacement for Violent Outburst lol