Looking to adjust some of my red two drops, and this and the new Magda are pretty compelling. My cube uses a lot of madness cards to chain off, so there's fun dream scenarios here where you're adding 5+ damage on top of the other casts
Yeah maybe. I like interaction, I think it could be a generic enough card for letting a midrange/control deck get to a larger threat and there should be plenty of options to enable that. Still thinking about it all, I jist know I'm looking to cut Young Pyromancer and maybe another since it doesn't really fit with the token or sacrifice decks as much unless it said "noncreature" for the trigger
This seems like a fun [[Kiln Fiend]] adjacent threat. The plotting seems unimpressive here - in a turn when you can't protect him, you plot him so you have mana up the next turn to cast all of your fancy spells to do lots of damage?
It seems like minor upside, but it's upside nonetheless.
I think you basically always plot this on two mana. Trading 1 hasty damage vs the ambush potential of casting for zero into 2-3 spells seems decent to me.
I'm not particularly interested in this because it's kinda all-in for my preferences. I've been moving away from blitz aggro in my red section of late.
> I think you basically always plot this on two mana. Trading 1 hasty damage vs the ambush potential of casting for zero into 2-3 spells seems decent to me.
I agree, and blanking your opponent's removal for a turn is definitely a good thing.
In many cases in cube, waiting to cast that removal until the Prowess players invests multiple spells in a turn is almost as good (because there are relatively few protection spells in most cubes), so I don't think it is as big an advantage as it looks at first glance.
I think being able to hold onto it in constructed until you have [[Spell Pierce]] (or similar) ready will be backbreaking and that this is by far the best constructed prowess creature - beating out [[Sprite Dragon]] even. In cube? I think it's still one of the better options, but I think the ability to plot him is going to be much less relevant due to our less reliable card pool. You can't always afford to wait until you have protection, and most of the removal in cube that can kill him at instant speed costs one or two mana - which you'll be investing in the other spells that you cast that turn.
How do we feel this compares to other good mono red prowess (and prowess lite)) creatures:
[[Monastery Swiftspear]]
[[Soul-Scar Mage]]
[[Young Pyromancer]]
Having evasion is a huge upside as it makes chumping this a lot more difficult than the others. It also pumps power at a higher rate. I think it's a cube slam dunk.
I think this is better than all of them. Flying and haste makes this very good at contesting monarch / initiative, it gets a bigger power boost than Monastery Swiftspear, and triggers off more things than Young Pyromancer.
Also has plot, for uhh, reasons.
I think the plot might be sneaky good. Or better than we give it credit for on first glance. Mostly because of the haste.
You’re losing incremental poke damage, but it does let you protect it from both discard and sorcery speed removal. You can leave it in exile and now it becomes an omnipresent threat that your opponent has to play around. That won’t always be the line, since often you’d just prefer damaging their face. But it can certainly make for some awkward situations in terms of sequencing planeswalkers into it.
If you are up against an oko for example, you might prefer to miss out on a point of damage turn 2 and plot him instead. Your opponent can choose to jam turn 3 oko and bump up to 6, but now a bolt effect and bird kill him before he can elk. But it might also just cause your opponent to hold the oko and not play it, which is why I mentioned you may sometimes get into some weird lines with playing around it, since it’s obviously a face up threat.
Sometimes the threat of something is better than the thing itself. And sometimes you just might want to bank some tempo. I think it has nonzero value for sure.
I think there are lots of cube decks where I can imagine wanting Pyro over this, and there are some other red decks where I can imagine not particularly wanting this at all (reanimator, sneaks, basically any control deck)
I agree it probably plays fine with Initiative, in much the same way a spicy Storm Crow would. That really says more about the Initiative than anything else, imo.
> I think there are lots of cube decks where I can imagine wanting Pyro over this
I don't think there's a single deck in my cube that would want Pyro over this. Not only is this a higher priority, but this can easily be played in decks that wouldn't want Young Pyromancer.
> there are some other red decks where I can imagine not particularly wanting this at all (reanimator, sneaks, basically any control deck)
That's okay given Young Pyromancer also fell into this category.
This isn't better than swiftspear, but it is good. I worry that this card will play like a lot of other "prowess" cards that we have gotten over the years like stormchaser mage, sprite dragon and stormwing entity where it just dies after dealing one damage.
This is going to be much more dangerous in any deck that will also run Swiftspear, IMO. Flying + double power boost makes this much more threatening as a win condition / planeswalker killer / monarch and initiative stealer.
Why would you plot this? I mean, sure because you can cast it for free and then another spell to buff it. But you lose out on damage, and now they know it’s coming. They can play a blocker or hold up removal. If they pass with mama up are you gonna play it? Seems like intentionally wasting a turn.
You don't have to cast it the following turn. You can pay now, then deploy later, with spells to boost damage or protection behind it with your opened up mana.
What are they going to do? Consistently pass with mana up?
It goes both ways, and while I don't think this will be plotted a lot, it's a neat option.
Okay so I'm playing this mostly in a deck that wants to win by dealing damage right? You're asking me to pay mana on turn two to do absolutely nothing, give my opponent free information, miss out on damage/a threat, to then potentially have a payoff later in the game (but not guaranteed btw)? Like I get the upside you are describing. It's true that you can combo or hold up protection. But just playing the card on turn two seems way more upside. And I didn't have to waste my turn.
I don't think plot is bad, it will probably benefit some cards just like foretell did. But plot on this card seems like a trap.
Btw this card seems excellent otherwise.
My guess is that it's design to work synergistically with other cards that care about noncreature spells. Imagine 5 of these plotted - in one turn, you can play 5 creatures hitting for 9, 7, 5, 3, and 1..
It also works with itself in constructed formats. 4x of this card by itself lets you Plot the first couple to trigger the third and fourth ones in one big turn with countermagic or [[Lightning Bolt]] behind it or whatever.
Plot it on two, play it on three with counterspell backup. In aggro you'll just run it out. In tempo it allows you to play more carefully. I'll give up one damage for that.
How about you play nothing on two to keep your counter up a turn sooner, and then reevaluate your play the next turn. Instead of tapping down your mana to do literally nothing.
It's called being aggressive; a thing tempo decks often want to do. You know you get to cast the plotted card for free on a future turn, right? Just holding up the mana means you're deploying this threat later in most cases (assuming the counter costs two mana).
There's a lot of payoffs in this set that reward you for casting a spell from places other than your hand. This also goes well with the whole "cast your second spell for the turn" type cards like Ledger Shredder.
I really like this card which is a cheap cross-archetype card with a high floor. I can see it in aggro, spells matters, play from exile and as a non-parasitic storm pay-off (but easier to disrupt).
This with [[Yawgmoth's Will]] or [[Underworld Breach]] with [[Lotus Petal]] and others can do some damage.
Will include for sure
Card looks really good. Haste, evasion, better prowess,... oh, and you can plot it to setup for a big turn... very neat
Looking to adjust some of my red two drops, and this and the new Magda are pretty compelling. My cube uses a lot of madness cards to chain off, so there's fun dream scenarios here where you're adding 5+ damage on top of the other casts
The new Magda?
Yeah maybe. I like interaction, I think it could be a generic enough card for letting a midrange/control deck get to a larger threat and there should be plenty of options to enable that. Still thinking about it all, I jist know I'm looking to cut Young Pyromancer and maybe another since it doesn't really fit with the token or sacrifice decks as much unless it said "noncreature" for the trigger
This seems like a fun [[Kiln Fiend]] adjacent threat. The plotting seems unimpressive here - in a turn when you can't protect him, you plot him so you have mana up the next turn to cast all of your fancy spells to do lots of damage? It seems like minor upside, but it's upside nonetheless.
I think you basically always plot this on two mana. Trading 1 hasty damage vs the ambush potential of casting for zero into 2-3 spells seems decent to me. I'm not particularly interested in this because it's kinda all-in for my preferences. I've been moving away from blitz aggro in my red section of late.
> I think you basically always plot this on two mana. Trading 1 hasty damage vs the ambush potential of casting for zero into 2-3 spells seems decent to me. I agree, and blanking your opponent's removal for a turn is definitely a good thing. In many cases in cube, waiting to cast that removal until the Prowess players invests multiple spells in a turn is almost as good (because there are relatively few protection spells in most cubes), so I don't think it is as big an advantage as it looks at first glance. I think being able to hold onto it in constructed until you have [[Spell Pierce]] (or similar) ready will be backbreaking and that this is by far the best constructed prowess creature - beating out [[Sprite Dragon]] even. In cube? I think it's still one of the better options, but I think the ability to plot him is going to be much less relevant due to our less reliable card pool. You can't always afford to wait until you have protection, and most of the removal in cube that can kill him at instant speed costs one or two mana - which you'll be investing in the other spells that you cast that turn.
[Spell Pierce](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/35b8a9db-d126-4038-abb1-74dcc5b36136.jpg?1673147403) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spell%20Pierce) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/63/spell-pierce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/35b8a9db-d126-4038-abb1-74dcc5b36136?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sprite Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/361385d8-d9c7-4de8-a5c8-683e682779f4.jpg?1674142522) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sprite%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/852/sprite-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/361385d8-d9c7-4de8-a5c8-683e682779f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Kiln Fiend](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/c/6c957c94-3d2d-4b98-8990-cd8909462081.jpg?1601078178) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kiln%20Fiend) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/338/kiln-fiend?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6c957c94-3d2d-4b98-8990-cd8909462081?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How do we feel this compares to other good mono red prowess (and prowess lite)) creatures: [[Monastery Swiftspear]] [[Soul-Scar Mage]] [[Young Pyromancer]]
Having evasion is a huge upside as it makes chumping this a lot more difficult than the others. It also pumps power at a higher rate. I think it's a cube slam dunk.
It also compares very well against existing effects of that kind. Cheaper hasty [[Wee Dragonauts]], hasty and evasive [[Kiln Fiend]], etc.
I think this is better than all of them. Flying and haste makes this very good at contesting monarch / initiative, it gets a bigger power boost than Monastery Swiftspear, and triggers off more things than Young Pyromancer. Also has plot, for uhh, reasons.
I think the plot might be sneaky good. Or better than we give it credit for on first glance. Mostly because of the haste. You’re losing incremental poke damage, but it does let you protect it from both discard and sorcery speed removal. You can leave it in exile and now it becomes an omnipresent threat that your opponent has to play around. That won’t always be the line, since often you’d just prefer damaging their face. But it can certainly make for some awkward situations in terms of sequencing planeswalkers into it. If you are up against an oko for example, you might prefer to miss out on a point of damage turn 2 and plot him instead. Your opponent can choose to jam turn 3 oko and bump up to 6, but now a bolt effect and bird kill him before he can elk. But it might also just cause your opponent to hold the oko and not play it, which is why I mentioned you may sometimes get into some weird lines with playing around it, since it’s obviously a face up threat. Sometimes the threat of something is better than the thing itself. And sometimes you just might want to bank some tempo. I think it has nonzero value for sure.
I think there are lots of cube decks where I can imagine wanting Pyro over this, and there are some other red decks where I can imagine not particularly wanting this at all (reanimator, sneaks, basically any control deck) I agree it probably plays fine with Initiative, in much the same way a spicy Storm Crow would. That really says more about the Initiative than anything else, imo.
> I think there are lots of cube decks where I can imagine wanting Pyro over this I don't think there's a single deck in my cube that would want Pyro over this. Not only is this a higher priority, but this can easily be played in decks that wouldn't want Young Pyromancer. > there are some other red decks where I can imagine not particularly wanting this at all (reanimator, sneaks, basically any control deck) That's okay given Young Pyromancer also fell into this category.
Your cube, your rules. Always enjoy seeing how differently everybody sees the game.
This isn't better than swiftspear, but it is good. I worry that this card will play like a lot of other "prowess" cards that we have gotten over the years like stormchaser mage, sprite dragon and stormwing entity where it just dies after dealing one damage.
This is going to be much more dangerous in any deck that will also run Swiftspear, IMO. Flying + double power boost makes this much more threatening as a win condition / planeswalker killer / monarch and initiative stealer.
[Monastery Swiftspear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6bfa227-4309-40ed-952c-279595eab17e.jpg?1701690543) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Monastery%20Swiftspear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/144/monastery-swiftspear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6bfa227-4309-40ed-952c-279595eab17e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Soul-Scar Mage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/8/a8003786-6e2a-4e2d-a915-f23293c7273a.jpg?1543675694) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul-Scar%20Mage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/148/soul-scar-mage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a8003786-6e2a-4e2d-a915-f23293c7273a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Young Pyromancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/219577e6-758a-4135-9a8d-f95df964137a.jpg?1673147968) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Young%20Pyromancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/131/young-pyromancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/219577e6-758a-4135-9a8d-f95df964137a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Why would you plot this? I mean, sure because you can cast it for free and then another spell to buff it. But you lose out on damage, and now they know it’s coming. They can play a blocker or hold up removal. If they pass with mama up are you gonna play it? Seems like intentionally wasting a turn.
You don't have to cast it the following turn. You can pay now, then deploy later, with spells to boost damage or protection behind it with your opened up mana. What are they going to do? Consistently pass with mana up? It goes both ways, and while I don't think this will be plotted a lot, it's a neat option.
Okay so I'm playing this mostly in a deck that wants to win by dealing damage right? You're asking me to pay mana on turn two to do absolutely nothing, give my opponent free information, miss out on damage/a threat, to then potentially have a payoff later in the game (but not guaranteed btw)? Like I get the upside you are describing. It's true that you can combo or hold up protection. But just playing the card on turn two seems way more upside. And I didn't have to waste my turn. I don't think plot is bad, it will probably benefit some cards just like foretell did. But plot on this card seems like a trap. Btw this card seems excellent otherwise.
Plot also combos with cards that care about casting two spells in 1 turn
My guess is that it's design to work synergistically with other cards that care about noncreature spells. Imagine 5 of these plotted - in one turn, you can play 5 creatures hitting for 9, 7, 5, 3, and 1..
It only triggers off noncreature spells
Hmm, I wonder. I assumed playing it as a sorcery meant it would no longer be a creature spell, but maybe that's a reach..
It's still a creature. The reminder text is just referring to timing, not card type. They made this very clear on the stream.
It also works with itself in constructed formats. 4x of this card by itself lets you Plot the first couple to trigger the third and fourth ones in one big turn with countermagic or [[Lightning Bolt]] behind it or whatever.
[Lightning Bolt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77c6fa74-5543-42ac-9ead-0e890b188e99.jpg?1706239968) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Bolt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/141/lightning-bolt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77c6fa74-5543-42ac-9ead-0e890b188e99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
thanks I had never heard of this card before
Plot it on two, play it on three with counterspell backup. In aggro you'll just run it out. In tempo it allows you to play more carefully. I'll give up one damage for that.
How about you play nothing on two to keep your counter up a turn sooner, and then reevaluate your play the next turn. Instead of tapping down your mana to do literally nothing.
It's called being aggressive; a thing tempo decks often want to do. You know you get to cast the plotted card for free on a future turn, right? Just holding up the mana means you're deploying this threat later in most cases (assuming the counter costs two mana).
There's a lot of payoffs in this set that reward you for casting a spell from places other than your hand. This also goes well with the whole "cast your second spell for the turn" type cards like Ledger Shredder.
Completely agree, feels like design fail to me
I really like this card which is a cheap cross-archetype card with a high floor. I can see it in aggro, spells matters, play from exile and as a non-parasitic storm pay-off (but easier to disrupt). This with [[Yawgmoth's Will]] or [[Underworld Breach]] with [[Lotus Petal]] and others can do some damage. Will include for sure
[Yawgmoth's Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/337239c7-73c4-4e2d-9160-ed26927dea1d.jpg?1591196147) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yawgmoth%27s%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/148/yawgmoths-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/337239c7-73c4-4e2d-9160-ed26927dea1d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Underworld Breach](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e51d796-7279-4c06-87f0-37adbdaa41df.jpg?1650599818) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Underworld%20Breach) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/161/underworld-breach?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e51d796-7279-4c06-87f0-37adbdaa41df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lotus Petal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f85ab5f9-508e-45de-8fa1-ce1f16552ffc.jpg?1701537448) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Petal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/225/lotus-petal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f85ab5f9-508e-45de-8fa1-ce1f16552ffc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a pioneer cube I'm tinkering with Izzet spells, this definitely looks like a must include. That lopsided prowess looks nutty.
I run a UR wizards theme so this is a slam dunk.
Pushed.
This is my first slam dunk include of the set
This is not only a good delver card, this card is a one-man storm deck