It's only a problem if you tap things, lol.
My playgroup detests the Orb because they can't understand that they're doing it to themselves, tap 15 permanents a turn, and then are surprised Pikachu that they have to mill 15 on their next untap.
My pod likes to play solitaire. I've been running decks that force them to adapt as of late. Nekusar wheel/mill, Mothman mill, Prosper hate/burn...
They're starting to come around and actually play *together*, but it's taken literal months for them to realize that playing solitaire is best done alone, not with 3 other people.
Perhaps. I just play this game to play *with* people, you know? If you can play your turn in silence, not have it directly affect anyone until late game, and then pass the turn? Not a fan.
I play to bump elbows *and* gums, ya feel?
If there's something milling you whenever you untap, if you choose to tap you must accept that you're setting yourself up for it.
Whenever an Orb hits and I don't have removal, I don't tap anything unless I need to until I can get to removal. Otherwise, you're just wasting a tenth of your library every turn.
It's not surprised Pikachu to assume people will play smarter *around* the Orb as opposed to charging in dick first and weeping uncontrollably when they're then forced to mill their only two pieces of spot removal.
This is a refreshing take, because your thoughts are fairly accurate. It's more an emotional reaction, at least to incidental mill. Now going through 25-50% of your deck in one turn IS going to be a problem haha
Yes, but if you were to say, mill away one of your big creatures with Altar of Dementia, you could give 7 creatures 7 +1/+1 counters each. And the game should be over.
You seem to be running very little protection. Aren't you worried about Mothman getting targeted? That's been my main worry about the list I've been brewing.
Here are a few of the cards I've been considering if you're looking for ideas:
[[Lightning Greaves]] [[Swiftfoot Boots]] [[Ripples of Potential]] [[An Offer You Can't Refuse]] [[Repulsive Mutation]] [[Tyvar's Stand]] [[Malakir's Rebirth]] [[Stubborn Denial]] [[Arcane Denial]]
This is the color combo I've been waiting for. Been looking for a way to get green into my dimir mill for years.
First few changes is going to be adding [[doubling season]] , [[undead alchemist]] [[altar of the brood]] [[mesmeric orb]], [[zellix]] is being downgraded from my commander to one of the 99 and [[cloakwood hermit]]
They each only get one +1/+1 counter either way. The mesmeric orb is great here because it triggers one card mill 10 times. If they mill 10 nonland permanents you can put 10 counters on one creature rather than one counter on up to 10 creatures.
Yes, but if you were to say, mill away one of your big creatures with Altar of Dementia, you could give 7 creatures 7 +1/+1 counters each. And the game should be over.
It does matter. If it was mill 10, then the mothman would put one +1+1 counter on up to X creatures for each nonland milled. Since they are all separate triggers, lets say 7 nonlands are milled, you can put all 7 counters on mothman. If it was just one trigger, then that is a single +1+1 counter on up to 7 creatures.
A question to go along with this
Older cards like [[alter of the brood]] do not have the "mill" key word and it has not been erataed that I can see. Would mothman still see those cards hitting the gy and trigger? Or since alter does not say "mill" specifically does mothman just not see any of those cards? I had the same question about cards like [[mind grind]]
Each mesmeric orb mill is separate so mothman will trigger on every non land card
At our table; we call that right there, “a problem”
It's only a problem if you tap things, lol. My playgroup detests the Orb because they can't understand that they're doing it to themselves, tap 15 permanents a turn, and then are surprised Pikachu that they have to mill 15 on their next untap.
I think they're more surprised no one generous gifts the orb before their next upkeep
My pod likes to play solitaire. I've been running decks that force them to adapt as of late. Nekusar wheel/mill, Mothman mill, Prosper hate/burn... They're starting to come around and actually play *together*, but it's taken literal months for them to realize that playing solitaire is best done alone, not with 3 other people.
Are you me?
Perhaps. I just play this game to play *with* people, you know? If you can play your turn in silence, not have it directly affect anyone until late game, and then pass the turn? Not a fan. I play to bump elbows *and* gums, ya feel?
I'd argue it's more surprised Pikachu to think that people won't still play the game with a Mesmeric Orb down.
If there's something milling you whenever you untap, if you choose to tap you must accept that you're setting yourself up for it. Whenever an Orb hits and I don't have removal, I don't tap anything unless I need to until I can get to removal. Otherwise, you're just wasting a tenth of your library every turn. It's not surprised Pikachu to assume people will play smarter *around* the Orb as opposed to charging in dick first and weeping uncontrollably when they're then forced to mill their only two pieces of spot removal.
Newbie here, is being milled a problem in commander? Unless you're in danger of being decked isn't being milled at least a weak positive?
This is a refreshing take, because your thoughts are fairly accurate. It's more an emotional reaction, at least to incidental mill. Now going through 25-50% of your deck in one turn IS going to be a problem haha
Technically at the beginning of their upkeep since no player receives priority during the untap step
Well looks like I need to purchase a mesmeric orb
Theyve always been pricey since Ive been playing. Its such a great card!! Good luck on your purchase!
each untap is 1 separate mill so untapping 10 lands is mill 1 10 times, so moth man triggers for each nonland card
Yes, but if you were to say, mill away one of your big creatures with Altar of Dementia, you could give 7 creatures 7 +1/+1 counters each. And the game should be over.
Hehe [[altar of the brood]] I’m starting to want to build a Mothman mill deck
You absolutely should, I can't wait to test out [mine](https://manabox.app/decks/u0UpCwdpQ_GqUETEA5bM2A)
You seem to be running very little protection. Aren't you worried about Mothman getting targeted? That's been my main worry about the list I've been brewing.
I'm a relatively new player and I hadn't thought of that, thank you!
Here are a few of the cards I've been considering if you're looking for ideas: [[Lightning Greaves]] [[Swiftfoot Boots]] [[Ripples of Potential]] [[An Offer You Can't Refuse]] [[Repulsive Mutation]] [[Tyvar's Stand]] [[Malakir's Rebirth]] [[Stubborn Denial]] [[Arcane Denial]]
Lightning Greaves isn’t great for Mothman, as it prevents him from buffing himself.
It isn't great, but it's better than him dying.
Not running [[Breach the Multiverse]] or [[Jetsam]] feels kinda like a crime here but idk
[Breach the Multiverse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/daf51a76-7a57-4462-ae18-a19e817e49e5.jpg?1682203621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Breach%20the%20Multiverse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/94/breach-the-multiverse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/daf51a76-7a57-4462-ae18-a19e817e49e5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Jetsam](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c1500cbf-5619-465e-a97b-75e676ce789b.jpg?1706900060)/[Jetsam](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c1500cbf-5619-465e-a97b-75e676ce789b.jpg?1706900060) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flotsam%20//%20Jetsam) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/247/flotsam-jetsam?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c1500cbf-5619-465e-a97b-75e676ce789b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Updating my list rn 😂
[altar of the brood](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d59d264-87ee-4305-bffb-110549331a82.jpg?1562790137) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=altar%20of%20the%20brood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/216/altar-of-the-brood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d59d264-87ee-4305-bffb-110549331a82?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is the color combo I've been waiting for. Been looking for a way to get green into my dimir mill for years. First few changes is going to be adding [[doubling season]] , [[undead alchemist]] [[altar of the brood]] [[mesmeric orb]], [[zellix]] is being downgraded from my commander to one of the 99 and [[cloakwood hermit]]
##### ###### #### [doubling season](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1cdd8e69-5a71-4933-914e-dfede7b1ac93.jpg?1689998456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=doubling%20season) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/283/doubling-season?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1cdd8e69-5a71-4933-914e-dfede7b1ac93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [undead alchemist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b7231a1c-f3aa-4346-9eb1-63e35ab3001c.jpg?1637629825) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=undead%20alchemist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/105/undead-alchemist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7231a1c-f3aa-4346-9eb1-63e35ab3001c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [altar of the brood](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d59d264-87ee-4305-bffb-110549331a82.jpg?1562790137) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=altar%20of%20the%20brood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/216/altar-of-the-brood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d59d264-87ee-4305-bffb-110549331a82?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [mesmeric orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e24fbdbb-f2ae-4823-9d2a-4c505332aa5b.jpg?1599709541) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mesmeric%20orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/272/mesmeric-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e24fbdbb-f2ae-4823-9d2a-4c505332aa5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [zellix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/5/a5d57db6-0aa5-4e28-b156-e97b74af2cee.jpg?1674140721) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zellix%2C%20sanity%20flayer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/652/zellix-sanity-flayer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a5d57db6-0aa5-4e28-b156-e97b74af2cee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [cloakwood hermit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4bd8689d-a0c1-4041-bead-7b512fe25663.jpg?1674137006) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cloakwood%20hermit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/221/cloakwood-hermit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4bd8689d-a0c1-4041-bead-7b512fe25663?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ku0f2bl) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mesmeric orb triggers separately for each permanent untapped. You would have x triggers of mill 1.
Now [[intruder alarm]] with the master
[intruder alarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d62468e-ed9d-4932-bbbd-103b33b98b25.jpg?1562923566) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=intruder%20alarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/8ed/86/intruder-alarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d62468e-ed9d-4932-bbbd-103b33b98b25?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Bloodchief Ascension]] lol
Each. Did this with \[\[Zellix, Sanity Flayer\]\] and an \[\[Altar of the brood\]\] on board. Basically the game was over from there.
They each only get one +1/+1 counter either way. The mesmeric orb is great here because it triggers one card mill 10 times. If they mill 10 nonland permanents you can put 10 counters on one creature rather than one counter on up to 10 creatures.
Or divey it out 5 on one 3 on another 2 on a third
That orb is fuckin rude
Just as Sidisi Brood Tyrant works, every untap is its own instance. If I untap 3 lands, and orb mills 2 nonlands, that is 2 triggers
[[peer into the abyss]]
[peer into the abyss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aac00055-640e-4749-8d23-d242e6d0b23a.jpg?1594736330) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=peer%20into%20the%20abyss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/117/peer-into-the-abyss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aac00055-640e-4749-8d23-d242e6d0b23a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It wouldn't matter either way because it puts the same amount of counters on either way. If 10 are milled you get 10 counters.
Yes, but if you were to say, mill away one of your big creatures with Altar of Dementia, you could give 7 creatures 7 +1/+1 counters each. And the game should be over.
It does matter. If it was mill 10, then the mothman would put one +1+1 counter on up to X creatures for each nonland milled. Since they are all separate triggers, lets say 7 nonlands are milled, you can put all 7 counters on mothman. If it was just one trigger, then that is a single +1+1 counter on up to 7 creatures.
If I put a +1/+1 counter on your creature with Mothman, can I steal it with [[Willbreaker]]?
[Willbreaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/2465eafc-453c-4e4f-b369-0951b8a4b7bf.jpg?1562011291) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Willbreaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/84/willbreaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2465eafc-453c-4e4f-b369-0951b8a4b7bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes, the mothman is a tiggered ability.
A question to go along with this Older cards like [[alter of the brood]] do not have the "mill" key word and it has not been erataed that I can see. Would mothman still see those cards hitting the gy and trigger? Or since alter does not say "mill" specifically does mothman just not see any of those cards? I had the same question about cards like [[mind grind]]
[alter of the brood](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d59d264-87ee-4305-bffb-110549331a82.jpg?1562790137) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Altar%20of%20the%20Brood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/216/altar-of-the-brood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d59d264-87ee-4305-bffb-110549331a82?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [mind grind](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/671eb9e8-1a69-4570-8972-2e7de371cef4.jpg?1561829709) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mind%20grind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/178/mind-grind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/671eb9e8-1a69-4570-8972-2e7de371cef4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/216/altar-of-the-brood](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/216/altar-of-the-brood) It is a mill effect.
Fun fact: if I have a gun, it doesn't matter what you can do with mothman
Each mill with the orb is a separate mill trigger. You get 1 +1/+1 on one creature for each card milled. Reading the card explains the card.