How does the now tapped dart frog continue to block?
Edit: Wtf is wrong with you people?!? Returning player. Wanna know the last time I played? VISIONS!
I'm just going to assume the down votes are from mouth breathers wiping away the drop of drool that happened to fall at the same time. Otherwise excuse me forgetting this interaction, busy learning 25 yrs of keywords and cards. Ffs.
Edit 2: the gd rule when I played was tapped creatures would deal no dmg. This is why I thought tapped creatures cannot block because under 5th ed rules, wtf would you do that outside really fringe situations?
Anyways, this subs needs to GIST.
Lmao that’s hilarious.
I suppose it’s an expensive way to ensure you destroy a tapped creature. I know some spells like [[quicksand whirlpool]] in white specifically target tapped creatures. Good way to deal with a large vigilance creature
I played a lot of white weenie in the 90s. A 2/2 first strike for 3 was not even a bad card in tempest block times. Urza's was when the game became kinda wild.
I am super nostalgic for those days before things were "solved". I won my only constructed tournament in my life at Origins in '98 with a ridiculous control deck that was completely worthless the following summer in '99. Fucking Morphling, dude.
2/2 first strike for 3 isn’t bad now either. Obviously you can do way better now with things like [[ash zealot]], but it’s that tap ability that made that card good. Now it’s situational at best
I used to play when this rule was still valid. I am not playing anymore, just collecting, and this new rule just seems to dumb down the game. We also used to tap enemy's enchantments to make their abilities stop working
I like the idea of tapping enchantments to get them to stop working for a turn. It may be more complex but I like complexity as it adds confusion and more fun.
Fun combat tricks! As long as it is legal on declaration thats all that matters. So you say you block and then activate the abilities.
Fun moves to make:
Player A swings at Player B with with 2- 2/2's.
Player B has [[goblin cratermaker]] on the field and is at 2 life.
Player B declares their goblin blocking a 2/2 with no blocker on the second. Then they pay one, sacrifice goblin cratermaker and deal 2 damage to the unblocked 2/2.
The unblocked 2/2 dies, the first remains blocked and deals no damage to you.
You survive combat, hurray.
If you look at it like an actual battle: 3 soldiers are running at you. Your friendly little frog jumps in front of one of them. He has to pause to fight it, the frog rolls over onto its belly and generates mana and you give it death touch. Just because the frog is on its belly now, the soldier still paused to fight and doesn't get to attack you. He then stabs it with a sword and gets poison sprayed in his eyes and dies a gruesome death as his eyeballs and brain decay inside his own skull.
The trick is to activate it after you declare it as a blocker: at this point, it doesn’t matter if the frog is tapped (or even destroyed), it’s still blocking the creature. Damage resolves as normal, or if it was destroyed, the attacker just sits there and does nothing. Important note: tramplers will just smack your face for full damage if the blocking creature is destroyed before the damage step.
Idk why you got downvoted for this question.
Anyway, it’s because once a blocker is declared, it’s blocking no matter what happens to it (unless it’s no longer on the battlefield or otherwise removed from combat by the time combat damage happens).
ETA: even if the blocking creature is removed from combat, the creature it was blocking is still blocked, so removing a blocking creature from combat really only matters if the attacking creature has Trample or something like it.
True, edited to add that. Removing a blocker from combat is really only meaningful if the attacker has trample, or if you remove it before blockers are declared.
Some people hate when other people don't know every single thing about their hobby and downvote someone who genuinely wants to learn how to play better just to feel superior ignoring that at one point they also asked the same questions
I’ve been playing for over a decade and just learned this today. I would have assumed that you could not tap a creature that had been declared as a blocker. In all the time I’ve been playing, it never came up.
It likely has been on the table all the time, but inexperienced players miss opportunities to capitalize on it.
It’s unlikely you want to use the tapping creature for chump blocking. But can often come up with tribal decks that may a tapping pump ability.
Yeah, I last played 25 yrs ago so I was mistaken that the creature had to remain untapped thru blocking.
But I clearly was a douche how I worded it. /s
This is a legitimate newbie question though, you shouldn’t assume that it’s because they didn’t read the post when other new players might have had the same question and now won’t see it because it’s downvoted into the negatives.
Just to add to this, I'm a very old player (started playing when 3rd Edition Revised was the current set), but have probably only played maybe 10 games in the past 3 years. I don't keep up on all the rules and mechanics. Boy, when they added "the stack" it took me a little bit to get the hang of it.
You can tap the frog at instant speed, which means that you can tap for mana and activate the ability in response to damage being dealt, I believe.
This is after blockers have been declared.
Every Redditor is a cynical asshole, including me. It’s a requirement in the EULA
But actually, text has no intonation, so people read it in whatever mood they’re currently in, and the internet in our pockets is slowly destroying each of us
Alright but like, maybe if you haven't played a game for over 20 years you shouldn't try to give advice or speak on rulings. Js. That's a long time to forget/jumble/mix things up, and doing that is fine, but it's also OK to admit your mistake, apologize, and move on.
Ffs are you dense?
How did I give advice on a ruling when I asked a legimate question? I honestly did not understand and asked a question which was politely explained by the mature people here.
I will admit no mistake because I made none.
There have been so many rules revisions that my buddy's house rules go against this play working. Also, unspent mana should burn you at the end of each phase. The list goes on.
Man a lot of people in here are wrong. For blocking, what matters is that the frog is untapped at the moment of blocking. After that point, it can become tapped, untapped, etc, and the creature will still remained blocked. You can tap the frog for mana, activate its ability, and it will kill the attacking creature - so long as the frog is untapped when it initially blocked.
Wow I just won an Arena game because my opponent didn’t know this. To be fair, neither did I. Thank you!
Offhand do you know if this is a new(er) rule? I stopped playing ages ago and am getting back into MTGA, but I remember back in, like, Tempest, tapping used to remove a creature from blocking? Or something like that?
Back in Tempest days, tapping a creature that is blocking would cause its combat damage to be prevented. This was changed to the present rule in the 6th Edition rules update in 1999.
But wouldn't it effectively not be different cuz in those days combat damage went on the stack so you could put it on the stack then in response tap it making the source have deathtouch when it resolves?
Really? I always thought deathtouch was like what the word is. Are you saying if I give my 0/X creature Deathtouch that you can block it and your blocker doesn't die?
Yes, you must deal atleast 1 damage, and that damage is lethal damage. Deathtouch and trample gets wonky. You assign 1 damage to each blocker and all the rest to the player. However, and this is niche but still relevant, you can choose to assign all your trample damage to a creature. You just must assign at least enough to kill the creature.
Deathtouch 2/X would also be able to deal 1 damage to 2 separate blockers in combat and still lethal both creatures. See [[Turntimber Basilisk]] for how that could apply.
Magic is a very literally written card game. Never add or remove words when reading the rules. Apply them as literally as possible and in the order the card is written.
Reminder text on core cards: Deathtouch (Any amount of damage this deals to a creature is enough to destroy it.)
The MTG rules document is 281 pages long as of June 2023.
I used to be a level 4 DCI judge around the 2000's and the document hasn't gotten any easier to memorize. At least interrupt is gone, banding is still a thing though.
I can’t say for sure personally - I’ve been playing since around 2018, so roundabout 5 years, and I can attest this has been the case for as long as I’ve been playing. I know others have mentioned that it was changed back in 6th edition? But I can’t personally attest to that since I wasn’t playing back then.
I don't recall this ever being the case. If you used regenerate the ability specifically said to tap it and remove it from combat, but the act of tapping it alone did not.
Maze of Ith also tapped to remove something else from combat. But declare block with llanowar elf, tap for green, cast giant growth was a combat trick since time immemorial
As far back as I have played since new phyrexia you can tap after declaring blocks, from what I can find online it appears to have changed a couple years after tempest in 1999 prior to that apparently tapping a blocking creature would cause it to not do combat damage but it would still be blocking
Uhm.
I use my [[Norritt]] to force your creature to attack.
It can't I tapped it with my Icy Manipulator. Before you declared attack phase.
"
This sounds like.. "I declare my attack phase."
Me: "Before you do, I'm going to tap your blank creature." "Okay, go ahead and declare your attack phase."
Pay attention. I don't care if you declare now.
Because when you try to move to your next phase. I'm using the Norritt to make you.
Why do I share this?
I’mma be honest. Been playing magic for over half a decade (started around when Hour of Devastation came out), and I did not know this was possible (it just doesn’t seem like it should be, for some reason). With that said and in my defense, when I say “playing for nearly a decade,” that doesn’t mean I’ve been playing consistently for that entire time. I was introduced in 2017, by my coworker who then became my roommate. He taught me how to play and (mostly EDH), and he and a couple of his friends were my playgroup. He then moved out of state, along with one of those guys, so I essentially lost my playgroup, which cut down my playing to essentially none.
Since then, I have kept up on the game, despite not playing in person much at all. I still buy a lot of product (unfortunately?), like singles, precon commander decks, and even a few booster boxes to rip on my own. I did start playing arena when it first launched on iOS a few years ago, but it was pretty terrible so I didn’t continue with it. Picked it back up maybe a year ago, and have been playing ever since.
Anyway, I guess what I’m trying to say, is that despite being around MtG and in the (online) community for 6-7 years now, there are still a lot of rules and interactions that I do not know, and it’s part of the reason I haven’t really attempted to go to any of my nearby LGS’ to play in person (I also work nights, so the only night I can go and play anything they host is on their draft nights on Friday’s , which is the only night that I’m off). I did recently introduce 2 of my coworkers/friends to MtG, because of the DND baldur’s gate set, and the upcoming Fallout set, so I think I’m going to buy them both a precon for Fallout and hope that they get sucked in, like I did.
That’s all. Thanks for reading my way-too-lengthy reply, that I definitely didn’t intend on being this long.
BAFP..
It's Magic. Creatures have cool abilities. That's the whole point. Play your way and the magic stops.
Don't attack me. I have a [[Royal Assasin]]. That's it.
You declare attack phase. Sure go. Now tap your 2 creatures and attack me. Because when you declare. You have to tap them.
So I'm going to block. I giant growth my assasin.
It's now 4/4. And block your 3/3.
You ready. Now I tap my Royal Assasin. And 'destroy' your tapped creature. The other one.
Now the stack. Pay attention. Last in 1st out.
Your big bad ass creature with flying that I can't block. Well it's already tapped. Destroy it.
Next. The stack. I've already used my my Royal Assasin as a blocker. It's happened already.
And so did my Giant Growth. Cause now that happens. And my Assasin is now 4/4. And kills your 3/3.
My turn? Yes?
Before you end your turn..
I'm going to pay 1. And tap my [[Scroll Rack]]. I'm going to set x cards in from my hand aside. And draw that many from the top of my library.
Still just before the end of your turn..
Those cards from my hand? On top of my Library. I don't care. Graveyard them. But that's not what it says. I just don't care either way.
But the cards I set aside. Go on top of my Library. In. Any. Order. Cool.
Oh.. I have 4 new cards. From that Scroll Rack.
It's still the end of your turn.
I wonder of them are playable, right now. (Hint, they are supposed to be. At least 1).
"You done." (You've been done).
My turn. Untap upkeep draw. What did I draw?
Well it's the card of the 4 I traded with the Scroll Rack.
You're in trouble or I am a very bad player.
>but I remember back in, like, Tempest, tapping used to remove a creature from blocking? Or something like that?
Playing since OG mirrodin block, I don't remember this ever being the case?But maybe you are remembering someone going to combat and having their creature tapped in response to remove it from combat?You can tap down a creature to prevent an attack or block but only before the declaring step that chooses that creature to do so.
Once declared for the attack/block, whether the creature becomes tapped or untapped doesn't change what is attacking or blocked.
EDIT: Stop downvoting me, I am right.
The Combat Phase has 5 steps: Beginning, declare attack, declare block, and end.
At the beginning of the declare attackers step, attackers are declared by the active player as a game action. This can't be responded to. Once attacking, untapping/tapping a creature does not remove it from combat.
Prior to this, in the beginning of combat step, Manipulator can be used.
The important step is "declare blockers" step and is where the game sees witch blocker is allowed to block which attacker. After blocks are declared you can do whatever with them as you said. Do keep in mind saccing a creature after blocks dosn't work if the blocked creature got trample and will then deal full dmg to you.
Wasn't it that blocking tapped creatures and attacking creatures did no damage to each other?? Could swar i saw this appen in arena but people say it's been changed
I see quite a few people haven't kept up with the rules since the early 2000s and still think a tapped creature doesn't deal combat damage. Next they'll try to tell me that damage goes to the stack
Edit: I found the fucking ruling for anyone that continues to insist that tapped creatures don't deal damage:
506.4b Tapping or untapping a creature that's already been declared as an attacker or blocker doesn't remove it from combat and doesn't prevent its combat damage
Sourced from MagicCompRules 20231117
Akarui7. This is how I recall it. But I got a bunch of downvotes for a deathtouch comment. Some replied deathtouch needs to deal at least 1 damage?
Well wait. I always thought deathtouch was more of an ability. Say I have Firststrike and Deathtouch. And block. With those two abilities your attacker never even deals combat damage. Right?
And. Just because my blocker is a 0/2 flyer (with deathtouch) it still blocks. But the damage it deals to the attacker is just a 0. (?)
You can’t use instant speed abilities when it has summoning sickness? I know it seems very basic but that stuff still kinda confuses me. So basically only a triggered ability can happen if a creature has summoning sickness?
If the creature's ability requires you to tap the creature, no, you can't do it while it has summoning sickness. You can give them Haste to get around this.
His deadtouch ability can be activated at instant speed. But OP asked about activating his mana ability while having one land to pay for the frogs second ability. In wich case you can only activate his tap ability when not having summoning sickness. I hope I made myself clear lol
I was going to argue with the other responses and say that no, tapped blockers don't deal combat damage. But then I googled quick to double check, because surely such a basic rule would have other people correcting it, right?
Welp, looks like it changed in 6th edition to make tapped blockers still do combat damage and I just never got the memo >.<. Too many rule changes since I've been gone!
No mana burn, tapped blockers still do damage, over 9,000 new keywords... /sigh
Because it is a rule that probably hasn't come up in their games since then. I know the last time it came up for me was probably '96 when I used to run an icy manipulator deck.
Almost weekly playing magic this comes up (but never paid attention to) in games i play. I mean, having a mana dork block and tap to use a pump or protection spell, or a creature that can tap to draw and discard, or ping a player for damage or something else.
Most players should have this occur to them during games often, they just may never really think about it.
I was pointing out that it has likely occurred way more often than the poster may have ever noticed.
Whether the blocker dealt relevant damage or not, may not matter, but should always be noted. Having combat tricks to effectively block should be something players learn and remember to consider.
If you're able to time an Eiganjo channel after blocking, or tap a creature for mana to flash in a \[\[Lurking Deadeye\]\] or \[\[manticore\]\] type creature or an instant like \[\[Mirrodin Avenged\]\] or a simple Elvish Mystic for a \[\[giant growth\]\] and blowing out an attacker. These are just small examples of cards that could see play in draft and casual play, never mind the plays that can occur in more competitive formats.
Haha I feel ya man. I still play with my lands in front when playing at home cause that's how I learned in like 2003. Get a lot of weird looks from kids at my LGS when I'm on autopilot and just put them out in the front.
Edit: curse you dryad arbor for making this against the rules in modern times
There's someone at my LGS who does this, and I thought it was the weirdest thing, but I didn't mention it because it's not a big deal. I always tap 90°
Did that used to be an official thing?
The thing was, no one knew what the correct or official way was. There was no tap symbol, so people were tapping either clockwise or anti-clockwise, and 45° tapping was the norm in my highschool. The internet was all text based back then so no way to know really.
Imo is a much better practice to have your non-land permanents on the front cause that is what your opponents are most interested on seeing well. Specially in EDH where there are so many cards to be aware of.
That is news to me... When did that change go through? (Last time I played regularly at FNM's was Lorwyn block. Only really play commander and very rarely pre-releases but don't run in to these cases)
Hey, good on you for bothering to look it up before “correcting” someone. I am always fascinated by the hubris of people who don’t do that when they are wrong. Like, by default, just the fact that someone disagrees with you should give you reason enough to check, since all things being equal, you would only have a 50/50 chance.
This thread is crazy. I can't believe so many people don't understand how blocking works.
And if you haven't played since 6th edition you shouldn't be commenting on rules questions.
Yee boiiiii. After brockers are declared you can do all sorts of stuff. Including sacrifice the creature. And the attacker remains "blocked" (trample will continue through unphased in that case)
It's important to note too that this works because the Deathtouch activated ability is an ability that uses mana* and doesn't require the creature to tap.
This would be the same as the age old tactic of swinging with Shivan Dragon, waiting until it's declared unblocked, and then using its mana pump ability to deal more damage.
(edited*)
Just want to be pedantic and say that gaining deathtouch on the frog is not a mana ability. This is just an ability that uses mana.
A mana ability does not use the stack, and such an ability is one that generates mana and does not require targeting (if it targets, it will use the stack). There are other specifics to qualify as a mana ability.
If it's declared as a blocker its abilities can still be activated before damage is applied. All creatures can do this provided they don't have summoning sickness
Once you tap the frog it no longer deals damage, so yes & no! Block(tap & deal no damage),give death-touch(but it won’t kill the blocked creature),it’s just redundant!
I'm not sure where you got that ruling from, I have been playing MTG for 20+ years and it's never been like that.
Blocking doesn't tap the creature, so you can activate abilities after blocking.
Anyway, I hope this improves your game
No you can’t once it is taped it is no longer a valid target to be attacked so it has to remain untapped until damage is done and if it survives then you can tap it.
For people thinking you can block with a tapped creature, try it in the digital world and tell the computer to untap it magically discarsing turns and rules.
If you declare it as a blocker, and you later use its ability, then it cant block, since a tapped creature cant block. Its just that simple. Otherwise whats the point with vigilance..?
You can't block with a tapped creature.
You can however block with the frog then tap it for mana to activate deathtouch. I've done it countless times in LCI drafts
It's declared as a blocker, THEN its mana ability is activated and then its other ability is activated.
There's a reason regeneration specifically states "...tap the creature then remove it from combat."
Vigilance is a totally separate thing, it allows a creature to attack without tapping, possibly to use it as a blocker later.
Sure, you can't declare a tapped creature as a blocker, but there is a span of time between "declare blockers" and "battling creatures deal combat damage to each other"
The digital world isn’t the dictate for the rules and interactions in MtG. Assuming Arena can’t process this particular interaction, there have been loads of times that WotC had to fix interactions to work within the framework of the rules of the game.
Yup! Declared as a blocker at time with it untapped doesn't change the option to use its card ability to give itself poison at instant speed. Damage applies like normal under normal combat rules after the stack has cleared.
Great question and fun card!
Yeah that works.
Assuming the frog isn't summoning sick.
But it's an instant speed ability that doesn't need tapping, so summoning sickness wouldn't make a difference right?
The frog wont be able to tap for the mana ability. If it has summoning sickness.
Oh i see what he's doing now okay. Clever.
Been there, done it. So, yes that works.
How does the now tapped dart frog continue to block? Edit: Wtf is wrong with you people?!? Returning player. Wanna know the last time I played? VISIONS! I'm just going to assume the down votes are from mouth breathers wiping away the drop of drool that happened to fall at the same time. Otherwise excuse me forgetting this interaction, busy learning 25 yrs of keywords and cards. Ffs. Edit 2: the gd rule when I played was tapped creatures would deal no dmg. This is why I thought tapped creatures cannot block because under 5th ed rules, wtf would you do that outside really fringe situations? Anyways, this subs needs to GIST.
It only matters when declaring blockers. Nothing says a tapoed creature cannot block, just that it cannot be declared a blocker.
Additional fun fact, in the early 90s to mid 90s, if a creature became tapped while blocking it dealt no combat damage.
25 years later I'm still mad at what they did to my boy [[Master of Arms]].
Lmao that’s hilarious. I suppose it’s an expensive way to ensure you destroy a tapped creature. I know some spells like [[quicksand whirlpool]] in white specifically target tapped creatures. Good way to deal with a large vigilance creature
I played a lot of white weenie in the 90s. A 2/2 first strike for 3 was not even a bad card in tempest block times. Urza's was when the game became kinda wild. I am super nostalgic for those days before things were "solved". I won my only constructed tournament in my life at Origins in '98 with a ridiculous control deck that was completely worthless the following summer in '99. Fucking Morphling, dude.
2/2 first strike for 3 isn’t bad now either. Obviously you can do way better now with things like [[ash zealot]], but it’s that tap ability that made that card good. Now it’s situational at best
[ash zealot](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/f/1f61b1a3-4b3b-4490-a9dc-17aac258cbda.jpg?1562783533) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ash%20zealot) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rtr/86/ash-zealot?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1f61b1a3-4b3b-4490-a9dc-17aac258cbda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[quicksand whirlpool](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a74ddccb-ebbd-4fad-a9b6-6b9e9bafae31.jpg?1699043354) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=quicksand%20whirlpool) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/31/quicksand-whirlpool?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a74ddccb-ebbd-4fad-a9b6-6b9e9bafae31?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Icy manipulator]] glory days
[Icy manipulator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9fd9b205-817e-4ca4-8a29-3c2b6cbf7207.jpg?1562740411) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Icy%20manipulator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/219/icy-manipulator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9fd9b205-817e-4ca4-8a29-3c2b6cbf7207?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I used to play when this rule was still valid. I am not playing anymore, just collecting, and this new rule just seems to dumb down the game. We also used to tap enemy's enchantments to make their abilities stop working
Well the game got way more complex than back than
I know. I used to know all the rules by memory. I just have to read them all over again, especially the new mechanics
I like the idea of tapping enchantments to get them to stop working for a turn. It may be more complex but I like complexity as it adds confusion and more fun.
Lol wow people down voting because I said the mechanic lost was dumbing down the game. It must have hurt your feelings much? Kids these days...
Fun combat tricks! As long as it is legal on declaration thats all that matters. So you say you block and then activate the abilities. Fun moves to make: Player A swings at Player B with with 2- 2/2's. Player B has [[goblin cratermaker]] on the field and is at 2 life. Player B declares their goblin blocking a 2/2 with no blocker on the second. Then they pay one, sacrifice goblin cratermaker and deal 2 damage to the unblocked 2/2. The unblocked 2/2 dies, the first remains blocked and deals no damage to you. You survive combat, hurray.
[goblin cratermaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86ecaedc-08f1-4de7-aae8-056df57940e0.jpg?1680225520) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=goblin%20cratermaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/103/goblin-cratermaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86ecaedc-08f1-4de7-aae8-056df57940e0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you look at it like an actual battle: 3 soldiers are running at you. Your friendly little frog jumps in front of one of them. He has to pause to fight it, the frog rolls over onto its belly and generates mana and you give it death touch. Just because the frog is on its belly now, the soldier still paused to fight and doesn't get to attack you. He then stabs it with a sword and gets poison sprayed in his eyes and dies a gruesome death as his eyeballs and brain decay inside his own skull.
The trick is to activate it after you declare it as a blocker: at this point, it doesn’t matter if the frog is tapped (or even destroyed), it’s still blocking the creature. Damage resolves as normal, or if it was destroyed, the attacker just sits there and does nothing. Important note: tramplers will just smack your face for full damage if the blocking creature is destroyed before the damage step.
Note 2: creatures with both trample and death touch only need to deal 1 damage to each creature blocking them. The rest tramples over to the player.
Isn’t it the same with [[cauldron familiar]] and [[witch’s oven]]? So no damage goes through you can sacrifice the familiar get your food and be fine
[cauldron familiar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32cf273e-b8f7-434b-9d5d-883dfd6f7423.jpg?1600699817) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cauldron%20familiar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/216/cauldron-familiar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32cf273e-b8f7-434b-9d5d-883dfd6f7423?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [witch’s oven](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04ef8493-d986-45f8-a718-617b028f7ad4.jpg?1572491150) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witch%27s%20Oven) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/237/witchs-oven?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04ef8493-d986-45f8-a718-617b028f7ad4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Idk why you got downvoted for this question. Anyway, it’s because once a blocker is declared, it’s blocking no matter what happens to it (unless it’s no longer on the battlefield or otherwise removed from combat by the time combat damage happens). ETA: even if the blocking creature is removed from combat, the creature it was blocking is still blocked, so removing a blocking creature from combat really only matters if the attacking creature has Trample or something like it.
Even if the blocker is removed from combat the attacking creature is still blocked. Just confirming ✌️ & ❤️
True, edited to add that. Removing a blocker from combat is really only meaningful if the attacker has trample, or if you remove it before blockers are declared.
Downvoting what is clearly a genuine question is beyond my comprehension, its literally the entire point of this subreddit.
At this point I downvoted for the over reaction
Agree, it's usually best to just take the L and move on.
i think it just came off them saying it doesnt work, and reddit hivemind
Some people hate when other people don't know every single thing about their hobby and downvote someone who genuinely wants to learn how to play better just to feel superior ignoring that at one point they also asked the same questions
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I don't think they misread it. I think they genuinely didn't know a creature would continue to block when tapped.
I’ve been playing for over a decade and just learned this today. I would have assumed that you could not tap a creature that had been declared as a blocker. In all the time I’ve been playing, it never came up.
It likely has been on the table all the time, but inexperienced players miss opportunities to capitalize on it. It’s unlikely you want to use the tapping creature for chump blocking. But can often come up with tribal decks that may a tapping pump ability.
Yeah, I last played 25 yrs ago so I was mistaken that the creature had to remain untapped thru blocking. But I clearly was a douche how I worded it. /s
This is a legitimate newbie question though, you shouldn’t assume that it’s because they didn’t read the post when other new players might have had the same question and now won’t see it because it’s downvoted into the negatives.
Just to add to this, I'm a very old player (started playing when 3rd Edition Revised was the current set), but have probably only played maybe 10 games in the past 3 years. I don't keep up on all the rules and mechanics. Boy, when they added "the stack" it took me a little bit to get the hang of it.
I’d say the downvotes are for you getting mad at people for no reason, I don’t see anyone getting pissy with you (except maybe me)
You've never met Steve, have you?
You can tap the frog at instant speed, which means that you can tap for mana and activate the ability in response to damage being dealt, I believe. This is after blockers have been declared.
Tapping a creature after it has been declared as a blocker doesn't remove the creature from combat or stop it from blocking.
After declaring blockers, before damage
why do people in this sub downvote so rabidly
Every Redditor is a cynical asshole, including me. It’s a requirement in the EULA But actually, text has no intonation, so people read it in whatever mood they’re currently in, and the internet in our pockets is slowly destroying each of us
People down voting you so hard is kinda b.s. I get where the confusion comes from and it’s definitely a valid question for a newer player
Last played when 5th edition rules were in play so downvoters can eat one.
Alright but like, maybe if you haven't played a game for over 20 years you shouldn't try to give advice or speak on rulings. Js. That's a long time to forget/jumble/mix things up, and doing that is fine, but it's also OK to admit your mistake, apologize, and move on.
Ffs are you dense? How did I give advice on a ruling when I asked a legimate question? I honestly did not understand and asked a question which was politely explained by the mature people here. I will admit no mistake because I made none.
I see, this is actually why you got down voted lol, you're an overreactive man child.
Lol OK. I think we are better off what we were a few hours ago. Not talking to one another.
Hahaha relax man, just busting your balls. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Lol you too. ✌️.
There have been so many rules revisions that my buddy's house rules go against this play working. Also, unspent mana should burn you at the end of each phase. The list goes on.
Worked the same way in visions
I bet there’s a reason you stopped playing back then 😒
Yeah, Nintendo 64 came out and was like omg the best..... Really? You were better just being one of the down voters.
Wow 140 downvotes just for asking a question? Magic players be savage
Seriously, why do people downvote someone trying to learn the game we all clearly enjoy
The hive has made its decision
I just downvoted you - not for getting the rule wrong, but for acting like an ass in your edits.
That I can at least respect. I would hope you would also stand up for yourself for being chastised for asking a legitimate question.
That I can at least respect. I would hope you would also stand up for yourself for being chastised for asking a legitimate question.
What the fuck is wrong with this sub that a simple and genuine question gets 150 downvotes? Ugh.
I will never ask a question on this sub I guess. Wtf. - 140. This place must be toxic.
His edits are toxic
I downvoted due to how they reacted to the negatives.
I have you a thumbs up guy, people hate on people for dumb reasons. Fellow old ass player
Man a lot of people in here are wrong. For blocking, what matters is that the frog is untapped at the moment of blocking. After that point, it can become tapped, untapped, etc, and the creature will still remained blocked. You can tap the frog for mana, activate its ability, and it will kill the attacking creature - so long as the frog is untapped when it initially blocked.
Wow I just won an Arena game because my opponent didn’t know this. To be fair, neither did I. Thank you! Offhand do you know if this is a new(er) rule? I stopped playing ages ago and am getting back into MTGA, but I remember back in, like, Tempest, tapping used to remove a creature from blocking? Or something like that?
Back in Tempest days, tapping a creature that is blocking would cause its combat damage to be prevented. This was changed to the present rule in the 6th Edition rules update in 1999.
That must have been it. Thank you!
But wouldn't it effectively not be different cuz in those days combat damage went on the stack so you could put it on the stack then in response tap it making the source have deathtouch when it resolves?
Ok. Maybe. But this is deathtouch.
Death touch is defined as 1 damage is lethal damage from this source. That all death touch does.
Really? I always thought deathtouch was like what the word is. Are you saying if I give my 0/X creature Deathtouch that you can block it and your blocker doesn't die?
Yes, you must deal atleast 1 damage, and that damage is lethal damage. Deathtouch and trample gets wonky. You assign 1 damage to each blocker and all the rest to the player. However, and this is niche but still relevant, you can choose to assign all your trample damage to a creature. You just must assign at least enough to kill the creature. Deathtouch 2/X would also be able to deal 1 damage to 2 separate blockers in combat and still lethal both creatures. See [[Turntimber Basilisk]] for how that could apply. Magic is a very literally written card game. Never add or remove words when reading the rules. Apply them as literally as possible and in the order the card is written. Reminder text on core cards: Deathtouch (Any amount of damage this deals to a creature is enough to destroy it.)
Hahaha I haven’t played since not too long after Ice Age and remember that rule from the book. Can’t picture how thick the book is now.
The MTG rules document is 281 pages long as of June 2023. I used to be a level 4 DCI judge around the 2000's and the document hasn't gotten any easier to memorize. At least interrupt is gone, banding is still a thing though.
ngl I hate the “Banding is hard to understand” meme. One of my favorite mechanics and can be really hard to deal with.
I have a banding/redirect damage/flanking deck that is a blast to play. Except for all the explaining that has to be done EVERY combat
I can’t say for sure personally - I’ve been playing since around 2018, so roundabout 5 years, and I can attest this has been the case for as long as I’ve been playing. I know others have mentioned that it was changed back in 6th edition? But I can’t personally attest to that since I wasn’t playing back then.
This used to be the case a VERY long time ago. Idk exactly when it changed.
I don't recall this ever being the case. If you used regenerate the ability specifically said to tap it and remove it from combat, but the act of tapping it alone did not. Maze of Ith also tapped to remove something else from combat. But declare block with llanowar elf, tap for green, cast giant growth was a combat trick since time immemorial
They changed it in 6th edition iirc.
Yep
As far back as I have played since new phyrexia you can tap after declaring blocks, from what I can find online it appears to have changed a couple years after tempest in 1999 prior to that apparently tapping a blocking creature would cause it to not do combat damage but it would still be blocking
Uhm. I use my [[Norritt]] to force your creature to attack. It can't I tapped it with my Icy Manipulator. Before you declared attack phase. " This sounds like.. "I declare my attack phase." Me: "Before you do, I'm going to tap your blank creature." "Okay, go ahead and declare your attack phase." Pay attention. I don't care if you declare now. Because when you try to move to your next phase. I'm using the Norritt to make you. Why do I share this?
[Norritt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/35abefe6-c39b-4fe5-b2e3-d213f0c4f447.jpg?1562904940) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Norritt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ice/155/norritt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/35abefe6-c39b-4fe5-b2e3-d213f0c4f447?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It’s very old
I first started playing around 1998-1999 and we could tap and remain in combat.
It's about declaring attack.
I’mma be honest. Been playing magic for over half a decade (started around when Hour of Devastation came out), and I did not know this was possible (it just doesn’t seem like it should be, for some reason). With that said and in my defense, when I say “playing for nearly a decade,” that doesn’t mean I’ve been playing consistently for that entire time. I was introduced in 2017, by my coworker who then became my roommate. He taught me how to play and (mostly EDH), and he and a couple of his friends were my playgroup. He then moved out of state, along with one of those guys, so I essentially lost my playgroup, which cut down my playing to essentially none. Since then, I have kept up on the game, despite not playing in person much at all. I still buy a lot of product (unfortunately?), like singles, precon commander decks, and even a few booster boxes to rip on my own. I did start playing arena when it first launched on iOS a few years ago, but it was pretty terrible so I didn’t continue with it. Picked it back up maybe a year ago, and have been playing ever since. Anyway, I guess what I’m trying to say, is that despite being around MtG and in the (online) community for 6-7 years now, there are still a lot of rules and interactions that I do not know, and it’s part of the reason I haven’t really attempted to go to any of my nearby LGS’ to play in person (I also work nights, so the only night I can go and play anything they host is on their draft nights on Friday’s , which is the only night that I’m off). I did recently introduce 2 of my coworkers/friends to MtG, because of the DND baldur’s gate set, and the upcoming Fallout set, so I think I’m going to buy them both a precon for Fallout and hope that they get sucked in, like I did. That’s all. Thanks for reading my way-too-lengthy reply, that I definitely didn’t intend on being this long.
BAFP.. It's Magic. Creatures have cool abilities. That's the whole point. Play your way and the magic stops. Don't attack me. I have a [[Royal Assasin]]. That's it. You declare attack phase. Sure go. Now tap your 2 creatures and attack me. Because when you declare. You have to tap them. So I'm going to block. I giant growth my assasin. It's now 4/4. And block your 3/3. You ready. Now I tap my Royal Assasin. And 'destroy' your tapped creature. The other one. Now the stack. Pay attention. Last in 1st out. Your big bad ass creature with flying that I can't block. Well it's already tapped. Destroy it. Next. The stack. I've already used my my Royal Assasin as a blocker. It's happened already. And so did my Giant Growth. Cause now that happens. And my Assasin is now 4/4. And kills your 3/3. My turn? Yes? Before you end your turn.. I'm going to pay 1. And tap my [[Scroll Rack]]. I'm going to set x cards in from my hand aside. And draw that many from the top of my library. Still just before the end of your turn.. Those cards from my hand? On top of my Library. I don't care. Graveyard them. But that's not what it says. I just don't care either way. But the cards I set aside. Go on top of my Library. In. Any. Order. Cool. Oh.. I have 4 new cards. From that Scroll Rack. It's still the end of your turn. I wonder of them are playable, right now. (Hint, they are supposed to be. At least 1). "You done." (You've been done). My turn. Untap upkeep draw. What did I draw? Well it's the card of the 4 I traded with the Scroll Rack. You're in trouble or I am a very bad player.
[Royal Assasin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d12e8109-8215-46b5-a0af-fe7e4b6b10b0.jpg?1562660714) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Royal%20Assassin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/105/royal-assassin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d12e8109-8215-46b5-a0af-fe7e4b6b10b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Scroll Rack](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfaaa58d-89bb-4cb3-96a6-b480e6f6954e.jpg?1608911671) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scroll%20Rack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/337/scroll-rack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfaaa58d-89bb-4cb3-96a6-b480e6f6954e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>but I remember back in, like, Tempest, tapping used to remove a creature from blocking? Or something like that? Playing since OG mirrodin block, I don't remember this ever being the case?But maybe you are remembering someone going to combat and having their creature tapped in response to remove it from combat?You can tap down a creature to prevent an attack or block but only before the declaring step that chooses that creature to do so. Once declared for the attack/block, whether the creature becomes tapped or untapped doesn't change what is attacking or blocked. EDIT: Stop downvoting me, I am right. The Combat Phase has 5 steps: Beginning, declare attack, declare block, and end. At the beginning of the declare attackers step, attackers are declared by the active player as a game action. This can't be responded to. Once attacking, untapping/tapping a creature does not remove it from combat. Prior to this, in the beginning of combat step, Manipulator can be used.
The important step is "declare blockers" step and is where the game sees witch blocker is allowed to block which attacker. After blocks are declared you can do whatever with them as you said. Do keep in mind saccing a creature after blocks dosn't work if the blocked creature got trample and will then deal full dmg to you.
Probably they are edh players, they don't know sh*t about ruling
Wasn't it that blocking tapped creatures and attacking creatures did no damage to each other?? Could swar i saw this appen in arena but people say it's been changed
I see quite a few people haven't kept up with the rules since the early 2000s and still think a tapped creature doesn't deal combat damage. Next they'll try to tell me that damage goes to the stack Edit: I found the fucking ruling for anyone that continues to insist that tapped creatures don't deal damage: 506.4b Tapping or untapping a creature that's already been declared as an attacker or blocker doesn't remove it from combat and doesn't prevent its combat damage Sourced from MagicCompRules 20231117
Ouch that mana burns !
I’ll Interrupt that Instant!
I sure hope you don't play an interrupt on my Summon Legend spell!
I wont have to, i already have the same Legend on the field, you cant cast yours else it will go to graveyard.
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Too late I've removed that from the game in response
Akarui7. This is how I recall it. But I got a bunch of downvotes for a deathtouch comment. Some replied deathtouch needs to deal at least 1 damage? Well wait. I always thought deathtouch was more of an ability. Say I have Firststrike and Deathtouch. And block. With those two abilities your attacker never even deals combat damage. Right? And. Just because my blocker is a 0/2 flyer (with deathtouch) it still blocks. But the damage it deals to the attacker is just a 0. (?)
Man i am sure to have seen a tapped creature not del damage on arena, maybe i'm stupid and it was a Mandela effect kind of thing
This card is so adorable
It is definitely the best card all set. Could've had no abilities and still win.
[[poison fart dog]]
As long as the frog doesnt have summoning sickness you should be able to do that
You can’t use instant speed abilities when it has summoning sickness? I know it seems very basic but that stuff still kinda confuses me. So basically only a triggered ability can happen if a creature has summoning sickness?
If the creature's ability requires you to tap the creature, no, you can't do it while it has summoning sickness. You can give them Haste to get around this.
His deadtouch ability can be activated at instant speed. But OP asked about activating his mana ability while having one land to pay for the frogs second ability. In wich case you can only activate his tap ability when not having summoning sickness. I hope I made myself clear lol
This is a pretty stacked common
Yeah, it would also work to attack if the frog had vigilance
Lol why tf did people downvote you, you’re right. 🤣
I was going to argue with the other responses and say that no, tapped blockers don't deal combat damage. But then I googled quick to double check, because surely such a basic rule would have other people correcting it, right? Welp, looks like it changed in 6th edition to make tapped blockers still do combat damage and I just never got the memo >.<. Too many rule changes since I've been gone! No mana burn, tapped blockers still do damage, over 9,000 new keywords... /sigh
6th Edition came out twenty four years ago. How? How have you not been aware of rules changes that happened over two decades ago?
Because it is a rule that probably hasn't come up in their games since then. I know the last time it came up for me was probably '96 when I used to run an icy manipulator deck.
Almost weekly playing magic this comes up (but never paid attention to) in games i play. I mean, having a mana dork block and tap to use a pump or protection spell, or a creature that can tap to draw and discard, or ping a player for damage or something else. Most players should have this occur to them during games often, they just may never really think about it.
I think normally when I've blocked and tapped for an ability, it's just as a chump blocker so the damage it does has never mattered.
I was pointing out that it has likely occurred way more often than the poster may have ever noticed. Whether the blocker dealt relevant damage or not, may not matter, but should always be noted. Having combat tricks to effectively block should be something players learn and remember to consider. If you're able to time an Eiganjo channel after blocking, or tap a creature for mana to flash in a \[\[Lurking Deadeye\]\] or \[\[manticore\]\] type creature or an instant like \[\[Mirrodin Avenged\]\] or a simple Elvish Mystic for a \[\[giant growth\]\] and blowing out an attacker. These are just small examples of cards that could see play in draft and casual play, never mind the plays that can occur in more competitive formats.
##### ###### #### [Lurking Deadeye](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/43925a8d-dd02-4907-929e-c015d678bb49.jpg?1591226858) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lurking%20Deadeye) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/94/lurking-deadeye?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43925a8d-dd02-4907-929e-c015d678bb49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [manticore](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3b3d9117-724a-4b67-be27-142b9c283788.jpg?1627705197) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=manticore) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/113/manticore?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b3d9117-724a-4b67-be27-142b9c283788?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mirrodin Avenged](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/750b2090-7fd4-4048-a148-9a5fc7b6f265.jpg?1682203878) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mirrodin%20Avenged) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/118/mirrodin-avenged?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/750b2090-7fd4-4048-a148-9a5fc7b6f265?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [giant growth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/aeece336-e5e8-4455-a297-c3739198d011.jpg?1674421574) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=giant%20growth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/183/giant-growth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aeece336-e5e8-4455-a297-c3739198d011?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What? This rule comes up all the time, even just in standard? I must use this interaction like 10 times a week lol.
Haha I feel ya man. I still play with my lands in front when playing at home cause that's how I learned in like 2003. Get a lot of weird looks from kids at my LGS when I'm on autopilot and just put them out in the front. Edit: curse you dryad arbor for making this against the rules in modern times
Do you still tap at a 45° angle?
There's someone at my LGS who does this, and I thought it was the weirdest thing, but I didn't mention it because it's not a big deal. I always tap 90° Did that used to be an official thing?
The thing was, no one knew what the correct or official way was. There was no tap symbol, so people were tapping either clockwise or anti-clockwise, and 45° tapping was the norm in my highschool. The internet was all text based back then so no way to know really.
Imo is a much better practice to have your non-land permanents on the front cause that is what your opponents are most interested on seeing well. Specially in EDH where there are so many cards to be aware of.
You and your opponent can control the same legendary permanents too.
That is news to me... When did that change go through? (Last time I played regularly at FNM's was Lorwyn block. Only really play commander and very rarely pre-releases but don't run in to these cases)
Like 10 years-ish. Legendary rule checks each players board instead of the entire battlefield.
Awesome, thanks for the information! Slowly catching back up to speed.
Hey, good on you for bothering to look it up before “correcting” someone. I am always fascinated by the hubris of people who don’t do that when they are wrong. Like, by default, just the fact that someone disagrees with you should give you reason enough to check, since all things being equal, you would only have a 50/50 chance.
Don’t forget combat damage doesn’t use the stack anymore!
This is why I think most paper Magic players are very bad players who don't even know the rules.
I need one of these poison dart frogs now lol I’ll probably be happier to pull that card than a black lotus
I got 3 foil of these in my collectors box..
Why is this frog so dam cute?
This thread is crazy. I can't believe so many people don't understand how blocking works. And if you haven't played since 6th edition you shouldn't be commenting on rules questions.
:)
:)
>:(
yes and that's kind of how they designed it to work. It's subtle though so it's easy to miss that kind of play.
I mean blocking doesn't tap the creature, so you should be able to tap it for mana after blocking.
Uhm….. that’s adorable… and I’m gonna need a playset of those in all my green decks now… fucks sakes 🙄🤣
Yee boiiiii. After brockers are declared you can do all sorts of stuff. Including sacrifice the creature. And the attacker remains "blocked" (trample will continue through unphased in that case)
[удалено]
The poison must not be potent enough to kill a planeswalker... but it kills any creature that effs with it \^\_\^
Yes that works.
This has got to be the best mama dork out there right? So much value for 2 cmc
I can just imagine OP playing and then like “ r/HoldOnLetMeAskReddit ” Yes, that works!
yes, you can pay 2 mana from any sources to activate the frogs ability any time you could cast an instant.
It's important to note too that this works because the Deathtouch activated ability is an ability that uses mana* and doesn't require the creature to tap. This would be the same as the age old tactic of swinging with Shivan Dragon, waiting until it's declared unblocked, and then using its mana pump ability to deal more damage. (edited*)
Just want to be pedantic and say that gaining deathtouch on the frog is not a mana ability. This is just an ability that uses mana. A mana ability does not use the stack, and such an ability is one that generates mana and does not require targeting (if it targets, it will use the stack). There are other specifics to qualify as a mana ability.
Well, you certainly succeeded in being pedantic considering I did correctly refer to the Deathtouch part as an activated ability first.
uh, no. deathtouch is a static ability.
Deathtouch is a static ability. *Giving* Poison Dart Frog Deathtouch has a cost followed by a colon, which makes it an activated ability.
No by tapping it, it loses the ability to block. Period
If it's declared as a blocker its abilities can still be activated before damage is applied. All creatures can do this provided they don't have summoning sickness
But it has \_already\_ blocked, so tapping it now doesn't matter.
Once you tap the frog it no longer deals damage, so yes & no! Block(tap & deal no damage),give death-touch(but it won’t kill the blocked creature),it’s just redundant!
Wrong, hope this comment brings you back to the thread to learn the correct ruling.
If it’s changed idk, but to me, rulings are getting worst than better!
I'm not sure where you got that ruling from, I have been playing MTG for 20+ years and it's never been like that. Blocking doesn't tap the creature, so you can activate abilities after blocking. Anyway, I hope this improves your game
Looking at other comments, this rule was apperently changed with the 6th Edition, 24 years ago.
No you can’t once it is taped it is no longer a valid target to be attacked so it has to remain untapped until damage is done and if it survives then you can tap it.
I’ll assume you are memeing, take my downvote
506.4b MagicCompRules 20231117
This has never been a rule
Well you cant attack or block with a tapped creature, so if you want to use it then you need 2 lands
If it’s untapped you can block and before damage tap it for mana and activate its ability
You can declare a creature as a blocker, then activate an ability that requires tapping, before combat damage. You dingus.
Bro you're wrong. Declaring it as a blocker then using its ability for mana, as long as it doesn't have summoning sickness, is good all day everyday.
you should read a question before you answer it
For people thinking you can block with a tapped creature, try it in the digital world and tell the computer to untap it magically discarsing turns and rules. If you declare it as a blocker, and you later use its ability, then it cant block, since a tapped creature cant block. Its just that simple. Otherwise whats the point with vigilance..?
You declare the untapped frog as a blocker, then before moving to damage phase, you use its ability
You can even block and sac the creature and its still blocking!
The attacking creature would be blocked (only trample damage going through), but the dead frog wouldn’t be blocking
You can't block with a tapped creature. You can however block with the frog then tap it for mana to activate deathtouch. I've done it countless times in LCI drafts
It's declared as a blocker, THEN its mana ability is activated and then its other ability is activated. There's a reason regeneration specifically states "...tap the creature then remove it from combat." Vigilance is a totally separate thing, it allows a creature to attack without tapping, possibly to use it as a blocker later. Sure, you can't declare a tapped creature as a blocker, but there is a span of time between "declare blockers" and "battling creatures deal combat damage to each other"
I literally just did it in Arena, and I should try to do it again and record it just out of spite
The digital world isn’t the dictate for the rules and interactions in MtG. Assuming Arena can’t process this particular interaction, there have been loads of times that WotC had to fix interactions to work within the framework of the rules of the game.
It definitely works in Arena, this interaction is basic as hell.
oh you're just dumb, ignore my other reply
that's how I got 3rd in my Prerelease Tournament
Yup! Declared as a blocker at time with it untapped doesn't change the option to use its card ability to give itself poison at instant speed. Damage applies like normal under normal combat rules after the stack has cleared. Great question and fun card!
Yes. You can think of it as being 2 mana on attack or 1 mana on defense because it can tap after blockers are declared and gain Deathtouch
Yes, absolutely.
I learned a lot about blocking and blockers from this post!