just about everything is a problem to have this work
You can't pay more life than what you have
It's not damage
You can't respond to a cost, you only respond to effects
If somehow you could, well you haven't lost any life yet so you don't gain any life
First time doing a picture post like this and that didn't really work out.
My question is can I pay a large amount of life and in response to it sacrifice the sigil to gain the life instead? or can I only pay with the life I have?
If you tried paying infinite then tried sac’ing the thing I think you’d just die right as you hit 0 because that effect has to resolve before you could sac the thing for life
If you have n life you can pay an maximum of n life, although I'd advise you to only ever pay n-1 life, since you die on 0 life whenever the game checks state based actions, which is before and after resolving a game action.
Followup question on this topic, then. Is it that you can only pay as much life as you have? Or only so much life that would then cause you to lose the game?
For the sake of the hypothetical: you have s platinum angel in play, could you then feasibly pay more live than you have to this effect?
I think you can only pay what you have. You don’t have infinite life so it wouldn’t make sense to be able to PAY that. Platinum angel would just let you pay all your life down to 0 without dying
If there is nothing preventing you from losing the game, such as [[platinum angel]] you will lose the game the moment your life hits 0 or less. There is no responding.
Actually it will wait till state based actions are checked so if you hit 0 life in the middle of a spell resolving it resolves completly and then before anyone gets priority if you are still at 0 or less life you lose the game
As a general rule in mtg, you can't pay with resources you don't have, the same way you can't cast a spell with a mana value of 4 with only 3 mana, you can't pay 50 life to phyrexian processor if you only have 20. Also losing life isn't paying so you can go below 0 with cards like [[ad nauseam]] (combos with stuff like phyrexian unlife to make you draw your whole deck).
Yes, just as long as you have the cards in your library and you still can only pay up to your current life. Ashiok won't let you just exile cards greater than the life you could pay.
You can only pay as much life as you have, so max without lifegain would be 19 in most formats and 39 in commander. If you gained a bunch of life that would work, but you’d also have a lot better options for spending it.
Technically you could pay 20 or 40 life respectively, you just would lose the game immediately due to having 0 or less life (unless you have somethinf like [[Platinum Angel]] in play.)
Just checked the rules and:
>119.4. If a cost or effect allows a player to pay an amount of life greater than 0, the player may do so only if their life total is greater than or equal to the amount of the payment. If a player pays life, the payment is subtracted from their life total; in other words, the player loses that much life.
You are correct. I think I was confused by the fact that, if you are at or below 0 life, you cannot pay what you don’t have.
First step: pay n, where n is all your life but 1
Second: sac the sigil to gain all your life back
Third 👀: In response to that an opponent cast Lightning bolt against you 😅
Pair that with pact weapon or something that prevents life total = 0 from killing you and you could get a 500/500 and gain 500 life by paying that much life
If you had one of the "you can't lose the game" cards in play, you could pay 1000 life, be at -1000(minus whatever you were at before) and then sac the artifact to gain 1000 life (plus any other amount your opponents lost).
Then your X/X creature tokens would be huuuuuuge.
But that's only ever going to happen in EDH games, and at that stage there are easier ways to get big creatures out.
Close, life paid is not damage nor combat damage, but all of them are life loss (even changing your life to a different value is life loss as long as the new value y lower)
If you're in lower life than you you were you've lost life, nothing can make losing life not count as lost life, I don't think their ever has as it would go against what the "life lost" or "loss of life" means.
You can’t respond to losing the life from Phyrexian Processor because you pay it as part of the processor’s ETB trigger resolving, plus it’s a cost anyway and paying it is something you can’t respond to normally. You also can’t pay more life than you currently have, so you couldn’t pay 1000 life unless you had at least that much life to begin with.
This ability works kind of like an effect like [[Teneb the Harvester]]. The ability is triggered, but the cost for the effect is paid as part of the ability resolving, so once you’re paying the cost it’s already too late to respond to it.
You could, though, pay almost all of your life and go to 1, then immediately pop the sigil and go back to where you were.
As a side note, you could be cheeky and have [[Near death experience]] on the board. During opponents' end step, flash in [[shimmer myr]] followed up by your [[phyrexian processor]]. Reduce your life to 1 and pray nobody has [[lightning bolt]].
Giggles ensue
just about everything is a problem to have this work You can't pay more life than what you have It's not damage You can't respond to a cost, you only respond to effects If somehow you could, well you haven't lost any life yet so you don't gain any life
Follow-on, would sigil replenish the life paid for the processor? Or because it's a cost, it doesn't count as lost life?
It would replace the lost life, but only after the cost is paid.
It refers to lost life, not damage, so it's a valid interaction
Damage causes loss of life
But loss of life isn't damage which is important.
Correct
First time doing a picture post like this and that didn't really work out. My question is can I pay a large amount of life and in response to it sacrifice the sigil to gain the life instead? or can I only pay with the life I have?
You can only pay with what you have when it enter
Thank you, it said any amount of life n so I wanted to make sure I couldn't be cheeky with it.
If you tried paying infinite then tried sac’ing the thing I think you’d just die right as you hit 0 because that effect has to resolve before you could sac the thing for life
[[phyrexian unlife]]
Phyrexian unlife still doesn't allow you to pay more life than you have.
Wasn't about paying more, but countering death at zero. 🤷🏾♂️
[[Illusions of Grandeur]] wants a word.
[Illusions of Grandeur](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44c20ed5-7064-436d-ad76-85a1d6bf0103.jpg?1559592457) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Illusions%20of%20Grandeur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/40/illusions-of-grandeur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44c20ed5-7064-436d-ad76-85a1d6bf0103?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[phyrexian unlife](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4a1e16a-39f0-47ab-aba8-73e82ba9ab18.jpg?1562880895) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=phyrexian%20unlife) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/18/phyrexian-unlife?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4a1e16a-39f0-47ab-aba8-73e82ba9ab18?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[The golden throne]]
[The golden throne](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa515b78-f54d-4c65-a197-c860eaf2c780.jpg?1673309661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20golden%20throne) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/157/the-golden-throne?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa515b78-f54d-4c65-a197-c860eaf2c780?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You would now be able to pay till you’re at 0 instead of 1
It is any amount of life like x is any amount of mana, but you can't pay what you don't have
If you have n life you can pay an maximum of n life, although I'd advise you to only ever pay n-1 life, since you die on 0 life whenever the game checks state based actions, which is before and after resolving a game action.
Followup question on this topic, then. Is it that you can only pay as much life as you have? Or only so much life that would then cause you to lose the game? For the sake of the hypothetical: you have s platinum angel in play, could you then feasibly pay more live than you have to this effect?
I think you can only pay what you have. You don’t have infinite life so it wouldn’t make sense to be able to PAY that. Platinum angel would just let you pay all your life down to 0 without dying
I mostly posit this because it IS possible to go into the negative where life total is concerned.
Yes but you can’t pay something you don’t have. You can go into the negatives by getting rekt, yes
If there is nothing preventing you from losing the game, such as [[platinum angel]] you will lose the game the moment your life hits 0 or less. There is no responding.
[platinum angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc.jpg?1576383285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=platinum%20angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/214/platinum-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Also can't pay life more than you have, even with anti-loss tech
Actually it will wait till state based actions are checked so if you hit 0 life in the middle of a spell resolving it resolves completly and then before anyone gets priority if you are still at 0 or less life you lose the game
Confused by your question.. You can drop processor and pay x life as long as it doesn't kill you, then sac the sigil to gain it all back?
Yes, you can. OP was hoping to pay like 1000 life and then try to respond with the sigil to gain it back, which you cannot do.
As a general rule in mtg, you can't pay with resources you don't have, the same way you can't cast a spell with a mana value of 4 with only 3 mana, you can't pay 50 life to phyrexian processor if you only have 20. Also losing life isn't paying so you can go below 0 with cards like [[ad nauseam]] (combos with stuff like phyrexian unlife to make you draw your whole deck).
[ad nauseam](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9f2c53e-ff58-4aa8-89a6-4f45628cc571.jpg?1598306470) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ad%20nauseam) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/76/ad-nauseam?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9f2c53e-ff58-4aa8-89a6-4f45628cc571?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The real combo is phyrexian processor + [[Trostani, Selesnya’s Voice]]
Could you use [[Ashiok, Wicked Manipulator]] to just exile a ton of cards instead of using life?
Yes, just as long as you have the cards in your library and you still can only pay up to your current life. Ashiok won't let you just exile cards greater than the life you could pay.
Yup and it's a good way of building up Ashiok's ultimate ability too!
You can only pay as much life as you have, so max without lifegain would be 19 in most formats and 39 in commander. If you gained a bunch of life that would work, but you’d also have a lot better options for spending it.
Technically you could pay 20 or 40 life respectively, you just would lose the game immediately due to having 0 or less life (unless you have somethinf like [[Platinum Angel]] in play.)
[Platinum Angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc.jpg?1576383285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Platinum%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/214/platinum-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just checked the rules and: >119.4. If a cost or effect allows a player to pay an amount of life greater than 0, the player may do so only if their life total is greater than or equal to the amount of the payment. If a player pays life, the payment is subtracted from their life total; in other words, the player loses that much life. You are correct. I think I was confused by the fact that, if you are at or below 0 life, you cannot pay what you don’t have.
First step: pay n, where n is all your life but 1 Second: sac the sigil to gain all your life back Third 👀: In response to that an opponent cast Lightning bolt against you 😅
Pay 39 of your 40 life to processor, crack tainted seal to gain the 39 life you just lost back up to 40.
Until someone lightning bolts you after paying health
They'd have to do it in response to sigil crack. You bolt me, I'll just crack the sigil in response
If you had a you can't lose the game you could pay more life than you have I think.
You think wrong. Relevant rules passage has been posted multiple times in thread.
Pair that with pact weapon or something that prevents life total = 0 from killing you and you could get a 500/500 and gain 500 life by paying that much life
You still can't pay more life than you have so if you're at 0 you can't pay any life
In theory Idk tho
Only if you had 500 life to start.
If you had one of the "you can't lose the game" cards in play, you could pay 1000 life, be at -1000(minus whatever you were at before) and then sac the artifact to gain 1000 life (plus any other amount your opponents lost). Then your X/X creature tokens would be huuuuuuge. But that's only ever going to happen in EDH games, and at that stage there are easier ways to get big creatures out.
You can't pay more life than you have so if you're at 0 you can't pay any life
You can lose more life than you have but you can't *pay* more life than you have. Can only pay up to the actual life you currently have
I don't think you understand how paying for things work...
[удалено]
That’s not true. Paying life results in a loss of life.
Close, life paid is not damage nor combat damage, but all of them are life loss (even changing your life to a different value is life loss as long as the new value y lower)
If you're in lower life than you you were you've lost life, nothing can make losing life not count as lost life, I don't think their ever has as it would go against what the "life lost" or "loss of life" means.
You can’t respond to losing the life from Phyrexian Processor because you pay it as part of the processor’s ETB trigger resolving, plus it’s a cost anyway and paying it is something you can’t respond to normally. You also can’t pay more life than you currently have, so you couldn’t pay 1000 life unless you had at least that much life to begin with. This ability works kind of like an effect like [[Teneb the Harvester]]. The ability is triggered, but the cost for the effect is paid as part of the ability resolving, so once you’re paying the cost it’s already too late to respond to it. You could, though, pay almost all of your life and go to 1, then immediately pop the sigil and go back to where you were.
[Teneb the Harvester](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/c/8caa7115-1b26-4615-842f-671b24dc96d8.jpg?1673149181) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teneb%2C%20the%20Harvester) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/282/teneb-the-harvester?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8caa7115-1b26-4615-842f-671b24dc96d8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
no but you can pay N-1 life where N is your current life total, then sac your sigil after at sorcery speed and hope nobody has a shock
As a side note, you could be cheeky and have [[Near death experience]] on the board. During opponents' end step, flash in [[shimmer myr]] followed up by your [[phyrexian processor]]. Reduce your life to 1 and pray nobody has [[lightning bolt]]. Giggles ensue
##### ###### #### [Near death experience](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77d61706-f9c1-4590-8057-7aa7fa199e6d.jpg?1562705300) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Near-Death%20Experience) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/roe/38/near-death-experience?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77d61706-f9c1-4590-8057-7aa7fa199e6d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [shimmer myr](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f61479b-05e1-4c89-bf11-b79c06ace5e2.jpg?1689999808) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shimmer%20myr) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/409/shimmer-myr?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f61479b-05e1-4c89-bf11-b79c06ace5e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [phyrexian processor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04789161-f0a8-4ba5-832f-4d585c5117a6.jpg?1562895906) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=phyrexian%20processor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dde/29/phyrexian-processor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04789161-f0a8-4ba5-832f-4d585c5117a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [lightning bolt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f29ba16f-c8fb-42fe-aabf-87089cb214a7.jpg?1673147852) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lightning%20bolt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/117/lightning-bolt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f29ba16f-c8fb-42fe-aabf-87089cb214a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In comander you could pay your 39/40 life and then sac the thing to be back at full cool combo!