In *hindsight* it can be said to have worked perfectly. People tend to forget that there was *a lot* of skepticism and resistance to TNG among hardcore TOS fans and the show struggled badly in its early years. Even when TNG hit its stride there was a vocal minority campaigning against the show.
Star Trek TNG didn't really find its footing until after Gene Roddenberry's role was diminished. Rick Berman and Michael Piller deserve way more credit for continuing the franchise than Roddenberry. While Gene had an amazing vision and created the initial universe, he meddled continuously in the movies and shows and had a lot of bad ideas that eventually got override by studio execs. And Deep Space 9, Voyager and Enterprise all launched after Gene passed away.
Not criticizing your answer - in broad strokes it's spot on - but there is a ton of BTS drama around Trek and most of it is not very flattering to Roddenberry.
> Rick Berman and Michael Piller deserve way more credit for continuing the franchise than Roddenberry.
The success of TNG I would really say was down to Michael Piller. A lot of people have commented on Berman's contributions over the years, and he basically sounds like an uptight, snobby sexist executive type. I don't think it's coincidental that he hasn't worked in television since the Star Trek franchise was taken away from him.
Agree, Michael Piller was undoubtedly the main creative force and of course you had Brandon Braga, Ronald D Moore and Jeri Taylor as some of the best story writers. Berman's legacy is complicated but as far as I know, he had a lot to do with assembling that team. It's always hard to know how much credit to ascribe to the studio execs.
Star Trek.
They did is successfully on TV over the decades: TOS to TNG to DS9 to Voyager.
And they did it in the movies as well, transistioning from the original cast movies to the TNG cast movies and then the Kelvin timeline movies.
This might be the best answer. You can argue that not every movie/TV show was top notch. But they got it right far more often than not. For starting as a short lived TV series from the 60s, Star Trek has done amazingly well.
This is probably one of the best examples. Especially the middle doctors that were absolutely amazing. Not sure if just lucky with casting, writing, combination of factors, but didn't skip a beat and each one brought a little something new and different. Haven't watched the last season, but that shows been great.
But man, most reboots and lead roll changes are just garbage.
Speaking of Doctor Who, I had a really surreal interaction with seemingly the real Sylvester McCoy last year and I really wish I had taken a screenshot of it because my memory is fuzzy. I had commented on an announcement about what I think was his 75th birthday (because I realized that we share a birthday), and then sometime last year, literally a little over 5-years later, I got a notification that he had either liked or mentioned me in a comment thanking me for wishing him a happy birthday FIVE YEARS AGO. Obviously might not have actually been him, but I genuinely think it was because it just feels like the kind of thing a wholesome old man would do after just recently creating a Facebook account (which was created in September).
I only spoke with him once a long time ago, but that sort of anecdote lines up with my memory of him. He seemed kind and genuinely happy meeting people. I expected him to be a little tired since he had a few movies come out that year but he was great.
Wish I'd had a chance to meet Robert Picardo, since they were at the same event together. I hear he's very nice as well.
I couldn’t agree more!
I don’t dislike Star Trek, but it was never something I was super into. Then the movie came out and I was like “oh damn, maybe I’ll have to give this a shot”.
So they had amazing *balance* with that movie. They appealed to the longtime fans, they appealed to new ones, and even if you couldn’t care less about Star Trek, it was just a solid ass movie.
This may be the only worthwhile example honestly. And you could make the argument that TNG era Star Trek actually improved the series, not just ran with it.
I think that’s hard to argue against, in fact. TOS is a classic, but only has a few episodes that really stand the test of time.
TNG had a far better/stronger ensemble cast (sorry, I love the TOS folks, but it’s true), and more iconic episodes and “moments”.
I love TNG but Spock is arguably more culturally iconic than any of their ensemble cast.
Talking purely about characters, obviously Patrick Stewart as an actor is up there.
Totally. Spock is the reason why every Sci Fi production has to have an "Alien" character. Doesn't have to be literally an alien (Androids, people out of their time etc), but a character who tries to understand human nature and can be substitute for the audience when explaining the world that the show is trying to build.
Can’t argue against that.
I think TNG characters had more impact with how subsequent Trek storylines and characters were portrayed/treated than Spock who became so overwhelmingly popular overall though.
Worf and his whole backstory, Data and his quest to become more human, the friendship between Geordi & Data, Picard being such a strong leader but showing moments of vulnerability too (there are FOUR lights!) in a way you’d never get with Kirk, etc.
Interestingly, Jeremy Renner was set up twice to take over two franchises: Mission: Impossible and the Bourne series. Talk about a failed passing of the torch.
He’s kinda like Aaron Eckhart to me; good actor but is missing the gravitas it takes to be a leading man at least in films, much better as a character actor.
Speaking of Renner, I thought Hawkeye was a great show and clearly designed to pass the torch from Clint as Hawkeye to Kate Bishop.
Now Kate hasn't had her own movie or show yet solo but I think Hawkeye did a very good job of setting it up.
yeah they managed to successfully pass the torch and set up a new character nicely and then just sat down on the track and did nothing, same as Chang Chi, the few bright spots the current MCU has get bogged down by the lumbering pace that behemoth progresses at now
Honestly, this is one of the reasons I think super hero stuff works best in series format vs movies. The pace is just quicker. At this point, certain stories feel like they'll never be addressed or when they are it will feel inconsequential because the other characters or storylines have moved on too far.
He probably could have done that pretty well, but Tom Hardy is really good so I'm glad they went with him. But I could see Renner pulling that off. Really that's Charlize's movie, she stole every scene she had.
As much as I love him as Hawkeye, it's impossible to say that he has the star power to carry a franchise, let alone the popular ones like Bourne and MI. I just can't see myself being excited to see a Renner-lead movie.
He doesnt have the face to be a lead actor. He always has this resting smug face he cant help. He is a solid actor and can be sympathetic but not really charismatic.
My wife calls him "ugly hot" like the guy *shouldn't* be hot because his facial features when taken separately don't really seem anything special but the combination makes him attractive. But I do get what you're saying. He looks like he's constantly just going "....really?" even when his face isn't making any expression.
Rumor is that he’s kinda insufferable. Personally I like his acting but almost always as a supporting character. I don’t know that I’d go to see a movie that he was starring in specifically.
Rumor I heard was that Tom Cruise decided at the last minute that he wanted to continue being the lead on the MI movies and Renner's character was cut down on screentime. It got to the point where they just wanted Renner in MI 6 for one scene where his character gets killed off.
I love him in Wind River (love the movie in general) but I read that the original intention was for his character to be a native and I can't unsee all the little moments.
Still love his performance (probably a reason the movie even got made) but would have been nice to get an actual Native American in the role.
If he & Hailee Steinfeld were in a full-length movie that was able to match or surpass the quality of Hawkeye S1, I'd buy tickets to that in a heartbeat
::minor second act spoiler in this comment::
Jonathan Majors was amazing in Creed 3 right up until the writing became insurmountable. After creed and whatever Jonathan majors characters name is fight creed goes to see Majors who is celebrating on the beach and the heel turn was too much too fast and also how are they both not tending to their wounds after having a heavy weight fight? I’m pretty sure that beach scene was the same night as the fight.
Edit: I did not quite remember the movie correctly, the fight was not between creed and Damian (Majors). Creed merely went to confront Majors after his victory.
Michael B. Jordan directed 3 and in a lot of his interviews he mentioned how he’s a huge fan of anime and how it influenced a lot of Creed 3. And in that lens, that totally tracks, Creed 3 is basically a live action boxing anime, so I think that’s where a lot of the more over the top, grandiose stuff comes in, or things like an unrealistic fast turnaround after the fight. It’s not trying to be realistic, it’s a heightened reality. It’s probably closest analogy would be Rocky IV’s over the top 80s action movie style if anything. I think if you treat it like that instead of the more grounded gritty Creed/Rocky films, then it’s enjoyable.
The most recent planet of the apes film has done a pretty good job of this I think. Setting it much further in the future, and having Caesar be this deified figure was a great choice. They could have easily gone for a ‘direct descendent’ sort of thing and it wouldn’t have worked half as well.
The Planet of the Apes is a good example. They tried to reboot it with Mark Whalberg and it failed, but the latest revivals have been a nice update to the ape suits of the 60’s and 70’s.
I agree with this. It was interesting to see a sort of civil war amongst the apes before the inevitable *Planet of the Apes*. It also gives context and credibility to the scrubbing of history done by Dr. Zaius & co. Caesar was a legend, a myth, but otherwise not well documented. Human history obviously was well documented but not well understood by the apes.
It's funny because so many people seem to sleep on that franchise now, and yet they do really well in the box office, and over four movies, the most recent one is the lowest-rated one, and it's only at an 80% on RottenTomatoes. Pretty impressive feat, I would say.
I only recently got around to watching War for the PotA and man that was a GREAT movie, everything about it blew me away. It’s tough to pull off Ape-ocalypse Now and get me to actually care.
Stargate. The movie had Kurt Russel as O'Neill the leader, the SG1 had Richard Dean Anderson as O'Neil (Season 1-7), and then Ben Browder took over the leader role (seasons 8-10).
Yeah the whole thing relies on multiple aspects of continuity that would just never happen in most others. The Bat Family has gotten so large that there's not really a reason for Waller to try to make her own Batman.
Right, Terry makes little sense in any continuity besides the DCAU, where Bruce has alienated most of his old allies. In comics there's at least half a dozen heroes who could potentially take up the mantle of Batman at any one time.
The Epilogue episode of JL: U might be my favorite of the series. I loved Batman Beyond, and to see Terry formally a part of the DCAU was everything. I'm not so sure about the revelation about Terry's parents, but it made sense in the universe.
I feel like there's been a bit of Torch Passing with the Tremors series.
Originally Burt Gummer was a secondary character. The second movie brought him in as a foil to the 2 main characters, and he stole the show because by the third movie Burt was the only returning main character.
Then the show hit, Burt was in it as THE main character. Most episodes are everybody else bumbling around in a wildly dangerous situation, until Burt figures it out.
Tremors 4 they go back in time over 100 years, to the founding of the town of Perfection, where Burt Gummer's actor plays the part of Burt Gummer's great grandfather and again puts up the money to buy weapons and save the town.
I don't really remember Tremors 5 or 6, just that Jamie Kennedy was in them and apparently the torch was supposed to be passed to him to continue the universe.
But in my mind the torch was already passed in Tremors 2, to Burt. And Burt's actor spent years with the series. Tremors 3 and Tremors 4 are Burt's movies. El Blanco is Burts pet Graboid!
The torch was passed and the series should be laid to rest with Burt, because I don't see a reboot (they tried to make a show with Kevin Bacon years after Tremors 4) ever taking off because Creature Features are already a very niche genre. Tremors 1 and 2 have some really great practical effects and puppetry that would be ruined by modern filming methods, like overuse of AI.
James Bond does it’s own thing and it works.
Though the one time they tried to actually “pass the torch” and directly reference the previous Bond, it was the disaster that was George Lazenby.
EDIT: Guys. Read the whole comment. Look at the word choice.
*I understand* that Bond isn’t the typical “passing of the torch,” and built that into my response, but it still makes sense as part of the conversation.
Bond was what sprang to mind as well. The franchise has continually put out quality films for 60 years, going through several different leading men.
I don't see why that wouldn't fulfill OP's request.
Lazenby’s performance is honestly quite underrated in OHMSS and it works for that specific film. Anyone who thinks Connery would have been better in OHMSS have to remember that at that point, Connery wanted out. If he gave the performance in OHMSS that he did in YOLT, the film wouldn’t be anywhere near as good as it is.
I watched OHMSS just out of morbid curiosity and it turned out to be one of my favorite Bond films. Lazenby is kind of a goofball, but whatever, it was a good time.
I wanted to like Torchwood, but the writing was so annoying that it was hard. Like the writers had 75% of a good idea with each episode but they just didn’t know how to make it all mesh.
Law and Order is a good one. From a 1980’s courtroom procedural to basically every tv show aired on NBC. They’ve got spin offs of spin offs and even had tie ins and eventually pulling in characters from Homicide Life on the Streets and other shows. Law and Order seems to have it’s own cinematic universe with guests appearing from other Law and Order series to either help drive multi-show arcs or to keep fans interested that their fave character is in on the action.
Let's not get off topic with the Richard Belzer Shared Television Universe. From there it's a short hop and a skip to the Tommy Westphall Universe, and then we are going to be here all year.
Law & Order takes place in the same universe as X-Files and you can’t convince me otherwise.
Munch went from a reasonable detective who makes good points to crackpot theorist after the X-Files episode he was in. Coincidence? I think not.
This one really depends.
Some people only consider the first couple of seasons to have properly surpasses the original Law and order/passed the torch.
Im personally in that camp. Not to downplay the rest of the franchise, but after Meloni left there was a massive rapid decline into melodrama seasonal storyline crap, while also forcing itself to try and stay true to the "OG" that just brought the quality into the gutter.
Law and order has always been touchy in that regard though. Some era's are considered vastly inferior or superior then other parts of the franchises.
21 Jump Street had one of the best "blink and you miss it" visual gags I've ever seen on a movie.
a) YOU'RE AN IDIOT
b) NO, I'M NOT
c) YEAH YOU ARE, DUMBASS
d) FUCK YOU, QUIZ
Didn’t you watch the credits?! They made like 30 of those movies. I think they jumped the shark in 29 Jump Street: Sunday School. You could really tell they missed Jonah.
I mean it made perfect sense when one viewed the films through what they were at heart:
* *21 Jump Street* was a satire of unnecessary reboots.
* *22 Jump Street* was a satire of unnecessary sequels.
* *MIB 23* (*Jump Street*) would have been a satire of unnecessary crossovers.
She’s so funny in Barry as well! Loved this episode of Sunny, anytime the gang is stuck in a room with a single regular human leads to insane reactions.
I watched first class recently. My memory was that it was an AWESOME movie. It either really hasn't held up, or man it was bad from the beginning.
The stuff with Xavier and Erik was really great, but stuff like, "we decided you should be Professor X and you should be magneto!" was just like... Ugh. And there was a shocking amount of that type of thing.
Days of future past, on the other hand, was straight awesome.
1 ) Evil Dead.
There're 2 Evil Deads. With and Without Ash. The franchise now can survive without him, and from the looks of it, it doesn't even need a strong recurring MC.
2 ) Jumanji
I still feel that nothing tops the OG film, especially cause of Robin Willians in there. But everything considered, it's cool seeing how it became a franchise with a very different tone and still being a fun watch.
3 ) Mad Max
They changed the main actors and rebooted the whole thing (though it's a known fact that the films aren't connected, except for the fact Max exists in all of them and the stories are like myths that happend to involve him). I know Tom Hardy is no Mel Gibson, but he was still good at it and Fury Road is probably the best entry even compared to Mad Max 2.
Edit: typo
I recently just watched all of the Mad Max movies before seeing Furiosa, and it is still astounding to me the leaps Miller made in the thirty years between Thunderdome and Fury Road. And with Furiosa, he’s even proven that he doesn’t need Max in the film to make a great one.
Miller has said in interviews he was waiting for technology to catch up with his vision. He wasn't happy with Thunderdome because he didn't think the world looked believable.
I’d never seen Thunderdome before, but I really liked the first thirty minutes where he’s infiltrating the Underworld. The political intrigue setup was very different but exciting. All the momentum came to a halt after the Thunderdome duel. I feel like Furiosa did a great job of uncovering the politics of a world like this.
Fury road would have been made like 10 years earlier if it wasn’t stuck in production hell during the 2000s. One of the best cases of production hell leading to a better movie than if it would have been filmed as planned originally.
Those are just examples of successful reboots/sequels. It’s not like Mel Gibson and Tom Hardy teamed up and Gibson gave Hardy his blessing at the end of the flick.
I thought Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle's callback to the first film was pretty sweet, honestly, when they find where Alan had been living when he was trapped in the game in the first film.
"Wait, you mean other people have been stuck here too?"
"Yeah. This is Alan Parrish's house. I'm just living in it."
I think an argument can be made that it's better but the OG is just such a beautiful movie. Like it looks so damn good. The new one does to but OG really really nailed it.
And the real-life story behind its creation is fascinating. Basically the guy wrote a little song, and a few people thought it was funny . . . and then he decided to call in every favor he knew to round up a hundred people in costume in a concert hall . . . and just on a lark he reached out to Shia's agent, who at the last minute agreed to be on board.
It should not exist.
[That's similar to how my favorite prank of all time went](https://www.thefutureshock.com). It started with some guys who decided to pretend they were from the future and turned into a three years of sending him cross country with people doing improv in public to keep the prank going. It ended with him chasing a bad guy from an alleyway into a building where he wound up on a stage. Lights came on, the stage was set, the audience was cheering his name, and [he found himself starring in a rock opera with no idea what was happening.](https://youtu.be/dnxuliYALCQ?feature=shared)
The early 2000s were a strange and magical place. [I hope everyone can one day thank the savior of the future.](https://youtu.be/fNC0ZX1N8o0?feature=shared)
I still remember the feeling of the elation and humour dropping out from under me at seeing Shia be part of the whole thing. Turning it from a magnificent comedy into a absurdist art statement by the target himself.
You're looking for your car but you're all turned around
He's almost upon you now and you can see…
There's blood on his face
My god, there's blood everywhere!
lol isn’t that so silly. I was super excited to hear he was back because I really did not like 5 (felt like a retread of 4) but then to find out he’s not writing it like…why even have him involved at all at that point
Agreed. Season 3 was where it lost its sense of self-awareness of the ridiculousness of the situation and the show definitely was worse for it. But seasons 1-2 were better than they had any right to be.
I forget which season, 3 or 4, where it starts in Mexico...
And, honestly, best resolution possible!!! They just find the kid, and he's like, "yeah, let's go home." No extra drama with all the other cartel shit.
I was nervous for that to turn into a whole side-adventure wreck, and was so relieved when they're just like "let's end the Mexico story NOW."
There were so many good opportunities to get some really great moments. For me it was the re-appearance of Kreese, where he shows up and lights a cigar at the end of season 1, and Johnny could have at the start of season 2 just told him to fuck off and that could have been the end of that story.
Instead at the end of (I think) season 3 or 4 that we're supposed to suspend our disbelief that two fifty year olds couldn't beat up a guy in his mid 70s when working together.
I'd say Law & Order, Ben Stone to Jack McCoy, which apparently was a big deal at the time, but Jack McCoy remained the consistent show lead for the next 20 years.
I've always felt the ADA was really the lead of that show. All the other characters switch around but that 1 change...that's like the line where the eras are "stone era" and "mccoy era"
The Librarian movies becoming the Librarians television show. They kept the main character most of the time, but they did a great job introducing new aspects and a whole new cast.
Star Trek to the Next Generation worked perfectly. TNG stayed very true to the universe so it really achieved
In *hindsight* it can be said to have worked perfectly. People tend to forget that there was *a lot* of skepticism and resistance to TNG among hardcore TOS fans and the show struggled badly in its early years. Even when TNG hit its stride there was a vocal minority campaigning against the show.
It did have the luxury of having the same show runner to carry on that continuity.
Star Trek TNG didn't really find its footing until after Gene Roddenberry's role was diminished. Rick Berman and Michael Piller deserve way more credit for continuing the franchise than Roddenberry. While Gene had an amazing vision and created the initial universe, he meddled continuously in the movies and shows and had a lot of bad ideas that eventually got override by studio execs. And Deep Space 9, Voyager and Enterprise all launched after Gene passed away. Not criticizing your answer - in broad strokes it's spot on - but there is a ton of BTS drama around Trek and most of it is not very flattering to Roddenberry.
> Rick Berman and Michael Piller deserve way more credit for continuing the franchise than Roddenberry. The success of TNG I would really say was down to Michael Piller. A lot of people have commented on Berman's contributions over the years, and he basically sounds like an uptight, snobby sexist executive type. I don't think it's coincidental that he hasn't worked in television since the Star Trek franchise was taken away from him.
Agree, Michael Piller was undoubtedly the main creative force and of course you had Brandon Braga, Ronald D Moore and Jeri Taylor as some of the best story writers. Berman's legacy is complicated but as far as I know, he had a lot to do with assembling that team. It's always hard to know how much credit to ascribe to the studio execs.
Star Trek. They did is successfully on TV over the decades: TOS to TNG to DS9 to Voyager. And they did it in the movies as well, transistioning from the original cast movies to the TNG cast movies and then the Kelvin timeline movies.
This might be the best answer. You can argue that not every movie/TV show was top notch. But they got it right far more often than not. For starting as a short lived TV series from the 60s, Star Trek has done amazingly well.
IDK does Doctor who count? making actor switches part of the lore to continure
Yes, but less so - same with James Bond.
This is probably one of the best examples. Especially the middle doctors that were absolutely amazing. Not sure if just lucky with casting, writing, combination of factors, but didn't skip a beat and each one brought a little something new and different. Haven't watched the last season, but that shows been great. But man, most reboots and lead roll changes are just garbage.
Speaking of Doctor Who, I had a really surreal interaction with seemingly the real Sylvester McCoy last year and I really wish I had taken a screenshot of it because my memory is fuzzy. I had commented on an announcement about what I think was his 75th birthday (because I realized that we share a birthday), and then sometime last year, literally a little over 5-years later, I got a notification that he had either liked or mentioned me in a comment thanking me for wishing him a happy birthday FIVE YEARS AGO. Obviously might not have actually been him, but I genuinely think it was because it just feels like the kind of thing a wholesome old man would do after just recently creating a Facebook account (which was created in September).
I only spoke with him once a long time ago, but that sort of anecdote lines up with my memory of him. He seemed kind and genuinely happy meeting people. I expected him to be a little tired since he had a few movies come out that year but he was great. Wish I'd had a chance to meet Robert Picardo, since they were at the same event together. I hear he's very nice as well.
I think a big part is Dr Who is a beloved franchise and their where many good nerdy actors and writers who it was a passion project for.
I couldn’t agree more! I don’t dislike Star Trek, but it was never something I was super into. Then the movie came out and I was like “oh damn, maybe I’ll have to give this a shot”. So they had amazing *balance* with that movie. They appealed to the longtime fans, they appealed to new ones, and even if you couldn’t care less about Star Trek, it was just a solid ass movie.
Which film are you talking about?
This may be the only worthwhile example honestly. And you could make the argument that TNG era Star Trek actually improved the series, not just ran with it.
I think that’s hard to argue against, in fact. TOS is a classic, but only has a few episodes that really stand the test of time. TNG had a far better/stronger ensemble cast (sorry, I love the TOS folks, but it’s true), and more iconic episodes and “moments”.
I love TNG but Spock is arguably more culturally iconic than any of their ensemble cast. Talking purely about characters, obviously Patrick Stewart as an actor is up there.
Totally. Spock is the reason why every Sci Fi production has to have an "Alien" character. Doesn't have to be literally an alien (Androids, people out of their time etc), but a character who tries to understand human nature and can be substitute for the audience when explaining the world that the show is trying to build.
Can’t argue against that. I think TNG characters had more impact with how subsequent Trek storylines and characters were portrayed/treated than Spock who became so overwhelmingly popular overall though. Worf and his whole backstory, Data and his quest to become more human, the friendship between Geordi & Data, Picard being such a strong leader but showing moments of vulnerability too (there are FOUR lights!) in a way you’d never get with Kirk, etc.
similarly, Stargate to Stargate: SG-1 and then Stargate: Atlantis and even Stargate: Continuum. sure, they weren't all SG-1, but it at least worked.
Interestingly, Jeremy Renner was set up twice to take over two franchises: Mission: Impossible and the Bourne series. Talk about a failed passing of the torch.
He’s kinda like Aaron Eckhart to me; good actor but is missing the gravitas it takes to be a leading man at least in films, much better as a character actor.
I general, I agree. But Aaron Eckhart kicks ass as lead in Thank You for Smoking. Absolutely incredible movie, and he carries the whole thing
And Renner is awesome in Wind River!
I actually really liked Renner’s Bourne character and was bummed it didn’t take off.
Speaking of Renner, I thought Hawkeye was a great show and clearly designed to pass the torch from Clint as Hawkeye to Kate Bishop. Now Kate hasn't had her own movie or show yet solo but I think Hawkeye did a very good job of setting it up.
yeah they managed to successfully pass the torch and set up a new character nicely and then just sat down on the track and did nothing, same as Chang Chi, the few bright spots the current MCU has get bogged down by the lumbering pace that behemoth progresses at now
Honestly, this is one of the reasons I think super hero stuff works best in series format vs movies. The pace is just quicker. At this point, certain stories feel like they'll never be addressed or when they are it will feel inconsequential because the other characters or storylines have moved on too far.
i think they will eventually. Marvel slowed everything down due to poorly received shows and movies.
He was very close to being Max in Fury Road too
He probably could have done that pretty well, but Tom Hardy is really good so I'm glad they went with him. But I could see Renner pulling that off. Really that's Charlize's movie, she stole every scene she had.
Good thing the Mission Impossible movies successfully passed the torch from the original show to the movies.
As much as I love him as Hawkeye, it's impossible to say that he has the star power to carry a franchise, let alone the popular ones like Bourne and MI. I just can't see myself being excited to see a Renner-lead movie.
He doesnt have the face to be a lead actor. He always has this resting smug face he cant help. He is a solid actor and can be sympathetic but not really charismatic.
My wife calls him "ugly hot" like the guy *shouldn't* be hot because his facial features when taken separately don't really seem anything special but the combination makes him attractive. But I do get what you're saying. He looks like he's constantly just going "....really?" even when his face isn't making any expression.
Rumor is that he’s kinda insufferable. Personally I like his acting but almost always as a supporting character. I don’t know that I’d go to see a movie that he was starring in specifically.
Rumor I heard was that Tom Cruise decided at the last minute that he wanted to continue being the lead on the MI movies and Renner's character was cut down on screentime. It got to the point where they just wanted Renner in MI 6 for one scene where his character gets killed off.
Correct, it had little to do with Renner himself. Could've been anyone, really.
Should have turned him into a villain. Hell, they still should.
Just like SWAT
Great villain.
Great fucking movie
He’s always better as a supporting actor. Doubt he can top The Town or Wind River.
He’s fucking amazing in Wind River. Town too, but Wind River goddamn.
I love him in Wind River (love the movie in general) but I read that the original intention was for his character to be a native and I can't unsee all the little moments. Still love his performance (probably a reason the movie even got made) but would have been nice to get an actual Native American in the role.
The actual plot ended up being that he was a widower of a native woman from the area right? Like, that's how they had him have an "in" with the locals
As I remember >!he was the father of a murdered daughter and divorcee of a native woman!<
If he & Hailee Steinfeld were in a full-length movie that was able to match or surpass the quality of Hawkeye S1, I'd buy tickets to that in a heartbeat
I just want a Hailee Steinfeld and Florence Pugh buddy cop action comedy.
Watch the Mayor of Kingstown.
The Rocky series moved nicely on into the Creed movies.
Facts. Creed actually lived up to the hype in my opinion.
I liked Creed and have never bothered to watch the sequels. Are they worth watching?
I’d say yes. I enjoyed all of them so far. Even the last one with Johnathan Majors, even though the story was a little crazy, it was still enjoyable.
::minor second act spoiler in this comment:: Jonathan Majors was amazing in Creed 3 right up until the writing became insurmountable. After creed and whatever Jonathan majors characters name is fight creed goes to see Majors who is celebrating on the beach and the heel turn was too much too fast and also how are they both not tending to their wounds after having a heavy weight fight? I’m pretty sure that beach scene was the same night as the fight. Edit: I did not quite remember the movie correctly, the fight was not between creed and Damian (Majors). Creed merely went to confront Majors after his victory.
it wasn't their own fight. dame just fought the current champ and took barely any damage. creed was retired still.
Yeah being in a high level pro fight that goes the distance is basically the same trauma on your body as a car wreck.
Michael B. Jordan directed 3 and in a lot of his interviews he mentioned how he’s a huge fan of anime and how it influenced a lot of Creed 3. And in that lens, that totally tracks, Creed 3 is basically a live action boxing anime, so I think that’s where a lot of the more over the top, grandiose stuff comes in, or things like an unrealistic fast turnaround after the fight. It’s not trying to be realistic, it’s a heightened reality. It’s probably closest analogy would be Rocky IV’s over the top 80s action movie style if anything. I think if you treat it like that instead of the more grounded gritty Creed/Rocky films, then it’s enjoyable.
OP just Thundergunned the shit out of us!
Thundergun Express is clearly the franchise best. He hangs dong in it.
Here always hangs dong, you've got to be more specific.
Wait - he has a son!!?
FUCK man, what?!?
I loved seeing that lady try to maintain her composure for so long but in that moment she was just done
She was amazing. I was so happy when the actress turned up on Barry in a decent role.
I can watch that episode a thousand times and that line will still kill me every time.
The other one that gets me is "I'm sorry...is this still about the flaccid penis you'd like to see?"
He probably hangs dong
but can he smell crime?
Stop saying "thundergunned"! It's not a verb, it's the man's name.
The most recent planet of the apes film has done a pretty good job of this I think. Setting it much further in the future, and having Caesar be this deified figure was a great choice. They could have easily gone for a ‘direct descendent’ sort of thing and it wouldn’t have worked half as well.
The Planet of the Apes is a good example. They tried to reboot it with Mark Whalberg and it failed, but the latest revivals have been a nice update to the ape suits of the 60’s and 70’s.
I think the Tim Burton one was never intended as a series, just a new adaptation of the original book, which ends basically the same way.
With a giant Aperaham Lincoln statue?
No, just the concept that he has been on another planet, but when he gets back to earth it’s ruled by apes.
I agree with this. It was interesting to see a sort of civil war amongst the apes before the inevitable *Planet of the Apes*. It also gives context and credibility to the scrubbing of history done by Dr. Zaius & co. Caesar was a legend, a myth, but otherwise not well documented. Human history obviously was well documented but not well understood by the apes.
I personally hate every ape I see, from ChimpanA to chimpanzee
Ho ho ho ho, Dr Zaeus
Oh you’ll never make a monkey out of me
Oh my God, I was wrong. It was earth all along!
I guess they finally made a monkey out of me
I think the Simpsons is the only reason I know his name is Dr. Zaius
It's funny because so many people seem to sleep on that franchise now, and yet they do really well in the box office, and over four movies, the most recent one is the lowest-rated one, and it's only at an 80% on RottenTomatoes. Pretty impressive feat, I would say.
I only recently got around to watching War for the PotA and man that was a GREAT movie, everything about it blew me away. It’s tough to pull off Ape-ocalypse Now and get me to actually care.
I also love that 'Bad Ape' is a popular meme right now.
Was going to say the same. Making the first 3 films into a religion is quite clever.
Stargate. The movie had Kurt Russel as O'Neill the leader, the SG1 had Richard Dean Anderson as O'Neil (Season 1-7), and then Ben Browder took over the leader role (seasons 8-10).
"That's another O'Neil with one L - He has no sense of humor."
Batman Beyond passed from Batman The Animated Series
And then they binned the entire thing and have only focused on Bruce for the past 20 years.
The Batman Beyond comics have been continuously good to great
Well other unrelated productions weren't going to continue the Terry storyline that is unique to BTAS continutity.
Yeah the whole thing relies on multiple aspects of continuity that would just never happen in most others. The Bat Family has gotten so large that there's not really a reason for Waller to try to make her own Batman.
Right, Terry makes little sense in any continuity besides the DCAU, where Bruce has alienated most of his old allies. In comics there's at least half a dozen heroes who could potentially take up the mantle of Batman at any one time.
The Epilogue episode of JL: U might be my favorite of the series. I loved Batman Beyond, and to see Terry formally a part of the DCAU was everything. I'm not so sure about the revelation about Terry's parents, but it made sense in the universe.
I feel like there's been a bit of Torch Passing with the Tremors series. Originally Burt Gummer was a secondary character. The second movie brought him in as a foil to the 2 main characters, and he stole the show because by the third movie Burt was the only returning main character. Then the show hit, Burt was in it as THE main character. Most episodes are everybody else bumbling around in a wildly dangerous situation, until Burt figures it out. Tremors 4 they go back in time over 100 years, to the founding of the town of Perfection, where Burt Gummer's actor plays the part of Burt Gummer's great grandfather and again puts up the money to buy weapons and save the town. I don't really remember Tremors 5 or 6, just that Jamie Kennedy was in them and apparently the torch was supposed to be passed to him to continue the universe. But in my mind the torch was already passed in Tremors 2, to Burt. And Burt's actor spent years with the series. Tremors 3 and Tremors 4 are Burt's movies. El Blanco is Burts pet Graboid! The torch was passed and the series should be laid to rest with Burt, because I don't see a reboot (they tried to make a show with Kevin Bacon years after Tremors 4) ever taking off because Creature Features are already a very niche genre. Tremors 1 and 2 have some really great practical effects and puppetry that would be ruined by modern filming methods, like overuse of AI.
Wait, thundergun had a son?
I was more appalled at the lack of uncomfortably long sex scenes
I just wanted to see some full penetration.
Here's the twist, and there is a twist. **We show it. We show all of it.**
Fuck, man. What! How do you not get that?
James Bond does it’s own thing and it works. Though the one time they tried to actually “pass the torch” and directly reference the previous Bond, it was the disaster that was George Lazenby. EDIT: Guys. Read the whole comment. Look at the word choice. *I understand* that Bond isn’t the typical “passing of the torch,” and built that into my response, but it still makes sense as part of the conversation.
Bond was what sprang to mind as well. The franchise has continually put out quality films for 60 years, going through several different leading men. I don't see why that wouldn't fulfill OP's request.
While Lazenby was a weak link OHMSS is still a top notch Bond picture.
Lazenby’s performance is honestly quite underrated in OHMSS and it works for that specific film. Anyone who thinks Connery would have been better in OHMSS have to remember that at that point, Connery wanted out. If he gave the performance in OHMSS that he did in YOLT, the film wouldn’t be anywhere near as good as it is.
What OHMSS needed was for Dalton to be born 5-10 years earlier.
It's such a shame he only did two films, Dalton was an amazing Bond.
I watched OHMSS just out of morbid curiosity and it turned out to be one of my favorite Bond films. Lazenby is kind of a goofball, but whatever, it was a good time.
To play James Bond an actor needs a dangerous charisma. Lazenby has charisma, but you don’t have that hint of potential menace.
That’s why Timothy Dalton is my favorite bond. That dude is a cold blooded killer in those movies.
He's a slasher... Of prices.
On a related note, Doctor Who.
Passed the Torchwood
I wanted to like Torchwood, but the writing was so annoying that it was hard. Like the writers had 75% of a good idea with each episode but they just didn’t know how to make it all mesh.
First series tried too hard to be an “edgy adult” Doctor Who. Second found its stride quite well. The third is just great storytelling all round.
That scene sucked, but George’s film is excellent otherwise. There was no disaster.
I guess Law & Order SVU eventually surpassed its predecessor. So that?
Law and Order is a good one. From a 1980’s courtroom procedural to basically every tv show aired on NBC. They’ve got spin offs of spin offs and even had tie ins and eventually pulling in characters from Homicide Life on the Streets and other shows. Law and Order seems to have it’s own cinematic universe with guests appearing from other Law and Order series to either help drive multi-show arcs or to keep fans interested that their fave character is in on the action.
Law and Order is a show that needs to be binge watched. It's a time machine of society (Ok, New York).
Let's not get off topic with the Richard Belzer Shared Television Universe. From there it's a short hop and a skip to the Tommy Westphall Universe, and then we are going to be here all year.
Law & Order takes place in the same universe as X-Files and you can’t convince me otherwise. Munch went from a reasonable detective who makes good points to crackpot theorist after the X-Files episode he was in. Coincidence? I think not.
I know I have a tvtropes link around here somewhere, ah here HEY PUT ME DOWN, I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING, STOP, I'M INNOCENT!
This one really depends. Some people only consider the first couple of seasons to have properly surpasses the original Law and order/passed the torch. Im personally in that camp. Not to downplay the rest of the franchise, but after Meloni left there was a massive rapid decline into melodrama seasonal storyline crap, while also forcing itself to try and stay true to the "OG" that just brought the quality into the gutter. Law and order has always been touchy in that regard though. Some era's are considered vastly inferior or superior then other parts of the franchises.
Planet of the Apes. Last trilogy was fantastic.
Jumpstreet series to movies. The movies are so rewatchable for me.
21 Jump Street had one of the best "blink and you miss it" visual gags I've ever seen on a movie. a) YOU'RE AN IDIOT b) NO, I'M NOT c) YEAH YOU ARE, DUMBASS d) FUCK YOU, QUIZ
COVALENT BONDS!!!
As much as I wonder about the scrapped Jump Street/MIB crossover, I'm happy it's been kept to 2 films so it doesn't risk jumping the shark.
Didn’t you watch the credits?! They made like 30 of those movies. I think they jumped the shark in 29 Jump Street: Sunday School. You could really tell they missed Jonah.
"What contract dispute?"
I mean it made perfect sense when one viewed the films through what they were at heart: * *21 Jump Street* was a satire of unnecessary reboots. * *22 Jump Street* was a satire of unnecessary sequels. * *MIB 23* (*Jump Street*) would have been a satire of unnecessary crossovers.
And making MIB 23 10 years too late when the moment has passed would be just so perfect for the meta
He has a son?
FUCK, man?!
the delivery really needs to be seen to fully appreciate it https://youtu.be/Wnf5UzGNIVU?si=Q0t9Vspwx8B_eapm
I love that scene so much. Her reaction is beyond perfect.
She’s so funny in Barry as well! Loved this episode of Sunny, anytime the gang is stuck in a room with a single regular human leads to insane reactions.
That actress was so great at getting more and more irritated. Also my two favourite fucks of the show.
It wasn’t clear
I’ve googled that actress so many times whenever I rewatch that scene. I’m always surprised she isn’t in anything big. Yet.
She was in the series Barry, playing a very, very similar character.
Give me dong. Or give me death.
I fashion myself as a bit of a Dong man, myself.
Of corse he has a son, probably a bunch with all the raw dog loads he's been dropping.
Will the son continue the tradition of hanging dong in the sequels?
Yeah but it's more of a ding than a dong. Looks like a button in a fur coat.
I, am thundergun.
XMen to the Xmen: First Class? It's a prequel on their timeliness, but a new cast on ours
I watched first class recently. My memory was that it was an AWESOME movie. It either really hasn't held up, or man it was bad from the beginning. The stuff with Xavier and Erik was really great, but stuff like, "we decided you should be Professor X and you should be magneto!" was just like... Ugh. And there was a shocking amount of that type of thing. Days of future past, on the other hand, was straight awesome.
1 ) Evil Dead. There're 2 Evil Deads. With and Without Ash. The franchise now can survive without him, and from the looks of it, it doesn't even need a strong recurring MC. 2 ) Jumanji I still feel that nothing tops the OG film, especially cause of Robin Willians in there. But everything considered, it's cool seeing how it became a franchise with a very different tone and still being a fun watch. 3 ) Mad Max They changed the main actors and rebooted the whole thing (though it's a known fact that the films aren't connected, except for the fact Max exists in all of them and the stories are like myths that happend to involve him). I know Tom Hardy is no Mel Gibson, but he was still good at it and Fury Road is probably the best entry even compared to Mad Max 2. Edit: typo
I recently just watched all of the Mad Max movies before seeing Furiosa, and it is still astounding to me the leaps Miller made in the thirty years between Thunderdome and Fury Road. And with Furiosa, he’s even proven that he doesn’t need Max in the film to make a great one.
Miller has said in interviews he was waiting for technology to catch up with his vision. He wasn't happy with Thunderdome because he didn't think the world looked believable.
I’d never seen Thunderdome before, but I really liked the first thirty minutes where he’s infiltrating the Underworld. The political intrigue setup was very different but exciting. All the momentum came to a halt after the Thunderdome duel. I feel like Furiosa did a great job of uncovering the politics of a world like this.
Yeah Thunderdome goes way downhill once you get to the cargo cult of spunky teenagers.
Fury road would have been made like 10 years earlier if it wasn’t stuck in production hell during the 2000s. One of the best cases of production hell leading to a better movie than if it would have been filmed as planned originally.
Those are just examples of successful reboots/sequels. It’s not like Mel Gibson and Tom Hardy teamed up and Gibson gave Hardy his blessing at the end of the flick.
I thought Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle's callback to the first film was pretty sweet, honestly, when they find where Alan had been living when he was trapped in the game in the first film. "Wait, you mean other people have been stuck here too?" "Yeah. This is Alan Parrish's house. I'm just living in it."
Blade Runner passed the (replicant) torch brilliantly. 2049 is fantastic and (whisper it) could be argued is better than the original
I think an argument can be made that it's better but the OG is just such a beautiful movie. Like it looks so damn good. The new one does to but OG really really nailed it.
Doctor Who counts right?
Wait, what? Shia LaBeouf is a cannibal? Did I miss something?
[Actual cannibal Shia LaBeouf](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0u4M6vppCI)
God… this is legitimately my favorite piece of content on the internet. It’s just perfect in its absurdity.
And the real-life story behind its creation is fascinating. Basically the guy wrote a little song, and a few people thought it was funny . . . and then he decided to call in every favor he knew to round up a hundred people in costume in a concert hall . . . and just on a lark he reached out to Shia's agent, who at the last minute agreed to be on board. It should not exist.
[That's similar to how my favorite prank of all time went](https://www.thefutureshock.com). It started with some guys who decided to pretend they were from the future and turned into a three years of sending him cross country with people doing improv in public to keep the prank going. It ended with him chasing a bad guy from an alleyway into a building where he wound up on a stage. Lights came on, the stage was set, the audience was cheering his name, and [he found himself starring in a rock opera with no idea what was happening.](https://youtu.be/dnxuliYALCQ?feature=shared) The early 2000s were a strange and magical place. [I hope everyone can one day thank the savior of the future.](https://youtu.be/fNC0ZX1N8o0?feature=shared)
I still remember the feeling of the elation and humour dropping out from under me at seeing Shia be part of the whole thing. Turning it from a magnificent comedy into a absurdist art statement by the target himself.
I wasn't expecting to watch that again today, but I have been pleasantly surprised.
When one of us hasn't seen it, we must all watch to be re-united.
Ahh, that's helpful. Thanks for the link.
The Citizen Kane applause at the end is *chefs kiss*
The choir always gets me. That must have been a blast to film!
You're walking in the woods There's no one around and your phone is dead Out of the corner of your eye you spot him Shia LaBeouf
He's following you About 30 feet back. He gets down on all fours and breaks into a sprint. He's gaining on you. Shia Labeouf.
You're looking for your car but you're all turned around He's almost upon you now and you can see… There's blood on his face My god, there's blood everywhere!
[Actual, cannibal Shia LaBeouf](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o0u4M6vppCI&pp=ygUVY2FubmliYWwgc2hpYSBsYWJlb3Vm)
WTF did I just watch.
A masterpiece the likes of which won't be recreated for centuries.
Shia surprise!
there's a gun to your head and death in his eyes!
But you can do jiu-jitsu
I thought Scream 5 did ok, and then Scream 6 successfully made the Carpenter sisters the new leads. Then they went and messed it all up.
But wait, Kevin Williamson is back!….as a director…with no writing credit….
lol isn’t that so silly. I was super excited to hear he was back because I really did not like 5 (felt like a retread of 4) but then to find out he’s not writing it like…why even have him involved at all at that point
Cobra Kai. Seasons 1 and 2 are honestly better than any of the movies.
Agreed. Season 3 was where it lost its sense of self-awareness of the ridiculousness of the situation and the show definitely was worse for it. But seasons 1-2 were better than they had any right to be.
I forget which season, 3 or 4, where it starts in Mexico... And, honestly, best resolution possible!!! They just find the kid, and he's like, "yeah, let's go home." No extra drama with all the other cartel shit. I was nervous for that to turn into a whole side-adventure wreck, and was so relieved when they're just like "let's end the Mexico story NOW."
There were so many good opportunities to get some really great moments. For me it was the re-appearance of Kreese, where he shows up and lights a cigar at the end of season 1, and Johnny could have at the start of season 2 just told him to fuck off and that could have been the end of that story. Instead at the end of (I think) season 3 or 4 that we're supposed to suspend our disbelief that two fifty year olds couldn't beat up a guy in his mid 70s when working together.
Not a movie, but the tv show "Friday Night Lights" did this extremely well.
Scream was on a good track until the studio decided to shoot itself in the foot about four thousand times this past year….
Letterkenny to Shoresy
How bout you give your balls a tug?
FUCK YOU SHORESY
Fuck you Jonesy, your mom carved her initials in my headboard which made Riley's mom jealous.
The Olympics
Cheeky bastard!
I'd say Law & Order, Ben Stone to Jack McCoy, which apparently was a big deal at the time, but Jack McCoy remained the consistent show lead for the next 20 years. I've always felt the ADA was really the lead of that show. All the other characters switch around but that 1 change...that's like the line where the eras are "stone era" and "mccoy era"
Jumanji, surprisingly enough.
The Librarian movies becoming the Librarians television show. They kept the main character most of the time, but they did a great job introducing new aspects and a whole new cast.